Latest / Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast / Cards' Growing pains on display after frustrating road trip

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Cards' Growing pains on display after frustrating road trip · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

0:05
Speaker 1: Well, the Cardinal's latest road trip has come to an end,
0:08
Speaker 1: and I think everyone involved is happy about that. Welcome
0:12
Speaker 1: back to Cardinal Territory, the official Saint Louis Cardinals podcast
0:15
Speaker 1: of the Foul Territory podcast Network. We're your host Katie
0:18
Speaker 1: and Berti Nicholas to talk about a super fun, super
0:22
Speaker 1: exciting one in five road trip. The Cardinals headed to
0:26
Speaker 1: Seattle earlier in the week, they were swept in three
0:28
Speaker 1: games by the Mariners. Came to Milwaukee and one today
0:33
Speaker 1: to salvage a one in five trip, but overall it
0:35
Speaker 1: was just not great baseball. And I know that we,
0:39
Speaker 1: personally Bertie, have not really looked at the standings. Yes,
0:42
Speaker 1: the Cardinals are mathematically still in it, but we know
0:45
Speaker 1: the priority is twenty twenty six and beyond. This is
0:46
Speaker 1: not a team that is contending for a postseason birth,
0:49
Speaker 1: no matter what the numbers say. But for the New
0:51
Speaker 1: York Mets to have imploded so poorly and lose eight
0:54
Speaker 1: games and the Cardinals to gain absolutely zero traction in
0:58
Speaker 1: that now all of a sudden, very tight nationally wild
1:01
Speaker 1: card just makes you shake your head a little bit.
1:03
Speaker 1: What were your thoughts about the week that was Bernie well, first.
1:06
Speaker 2: Of all, to just to piggyback on which you said,
1:10
Speaker 2: it's just amazing. It's it's actually to me kind of
1:13
Speaker 2: funny because the Cardinals were I never had the feeling
1:16
Speaker 2: for one moment that the Cardinals had a chance at
1:18
Speaker 2: this once they reached a certain level, but the Mets
1:23
Speaker 2: gave them every chance to do something about it. And
1:26
Speaker 2: before that, the Giants did, and before that the Reds did,
1:29
Speaker 2: and before that Arizona did, and everyone was just like, Okay, Cardinals,
1:33
Speaker 2: come on, come on, there's still time. Come on, doors open,
1:37
Speaker 2: come on. And they never they never could put anything together.
1:41
Speaker 2: And it's like it's almost like no matter how bad
1:43
Speaker 2: the Cardinals played or how many games they lost, they
1:45
Speaker 2: were always like four games out and that's where they
1:48
Speaker 2: are right now. It's just so bizarre. Anyway, my very
1:54
Speaker 2: my cliff News excuse me, gush, it's not that late.
1:58
Speaker 2: I'm acting like I'm bedtime or something. No, my Cliff
2:03
Speaker 2: Notes version would be in Seattle. The Cardinals, they didn't
2:07
Speaker 2: need to know this, but it was reaffirmed. They saw
2:10
Speaker 2: a team that showed you what a modern starting rotation
2:15
Speaker 2: should look like. Right strikeouts, just being able to pitch
2:19
Speaker 2: your way out of trouble by just getting swings and
2:22
Speaker 2: misses and getting you know, getting guys not being able
2:26
Speaker 2: to even get a fly ball on you to bring
2:29
Speaker 2: home a sacrifice fly. I mean they saw the benefit
2:34
Speaker 2: of power pitching. Even when the pitchers aren't necessarily great
2:37
Speaker 2: that night. They have so much ability to punch hitters
2:42
Speaker 2: out that they can escape for anything. They're not vulnerable
2:45
Speaker 2: even when they are vulnerable, if that makes sense. And
2:49
Speaker 2: then I think in Milwaukee, the Cardinals lose two out
2:52
Speaker 2: of three, and I think it's just reaffirms something that
2:55
Speaker 2: we know and I think the Cardinals know too. When
2:58
Speaker 2: you look at Milwaukee, you know, first of all, once again,
3:02
Speaker 2: really really good starting pitching, really deep starting pitching, good
3:05
Speaker 2: variety of starting pitching. The bullpen's good. But you look
3:10
Speaker 2: at the offense and where the Cardinals offense has been
3:12
Speaker 2: absolutely horrendous since the All Star Break. And Milwaukee can
3:17
Speaker 2: score runs in so many ways, so many ways. They
3:22
Speaker 2: have power surges from time to time. They're not a
3:25
Speaker 2: power hitting team per se, but they go through stretches
3:28
Speaker 2: where they are. But when they don't hit for power,
3:32
Speaker 2: they have great athleticism. They lead to the National League
3:35
Speaker 2: in stolen bases. They're the best base running team in
3:38
Speaker 2: the National League according to Statcast and fangrafts. They also
3:42
Speaker 2: have hitters that are smart and selective and take grade
3:47
Speaker 2: at bats, and they're exceptional at situational hitting. Like so,
3:51
Speaker 2: if something's not working for the Brewers offensively, there's always
3:55
Speaker 2: something for them to lean on. So fall back on
3:58
Speaker 2: the Cardinals. It's like, well, do we have power, No,
4:01
Speaker 2: we really don't have power. Okay, we'll run our way
4:05
Speaker 2: into runs. Uh, well no, you can't do that either.
4:08
Speaker 2: Our situational hitting, well yeah, the first couple of months,
4:11
Speaker 2: but then it went down down the drain. So Milwaukee
4:15
Speaker 2: is an example of, really, how I think you build
4:18
Speaker 2: an offense that is so well rounded you're going to
4:23
Speaker 2: win a lot of games with it because there's always
4:25
Speaker 2: something you can do to score runs. You're not overly
4:28
Speaker 2: reliant on power, you're not overly reliant on small ball.
4:33
Speaker 2: They've got a mix of a lot of good skills,
4:36
Speaker 2: and at one point or the other, something or a
4:40
Speaker 2: couple of those things is always working, even if one
4:42
Speaker 2: area is not working well at that time. So maybe
4:45
Speaker 2: they learned something from losing five out of six to
4:48
Speaker 2: Seattle in Milwaukee. That's all I got pretty much.
4:52
Speaker 1: Well, I think you're spot on about the Brewers, who
4:55
Speaker 1: became the first team in baseball to win ninety games
4:57
Speaker 1: on Friday and then became the first team to clinch
4:59
Speaker 1: a post season spot on Saturday. And that was before
5:02
Speaker 1: their epic come back to beat the Cardinals nine to
5:04
Speaker 1: eight and ten innings in the game that the Cardinals
5:06
Speaker 1: led six to two and the seventh inning. But honestly,
5:08
Speaker 1: I felt like that was theirs to lose all day,
5:12
Speaker 1: that entire game, and because there is such a vast
5:15
Speaker 1: difference in where the Brewers are as an organization and
5:17
Speaker 1: where the Cardinals are as an organization, and you could
5:19
Speaker 1: see it on the field. Saturday's game was I think
5:22
Speaker 1: the worst game the Cardinals have played. Not because they
5:25
Speaker 1: blew the lead, which was bad obviously, it was because
5:29
Speaker 1: of how they didn't capitalize on so many different things,
5:32
Speaker 1: situational hitting, Victor Scott, the second who I'm so high on,
5:36
Speaker 1: and this is a learning opportunity for him. Okay, I
5:38
Speaker 1: don't want this to come across as like Victor, you know,
5:42
Speaker 1: we're out on We're not. We're very We're proud supporters
5:44
Speaker 1: of him. On the show come down. He knows that,
5:46
Speaker 1: he knows he needs to do that. Okay, that's something
5:48
Speaker 1: that didn't happen. Nolan Gorman made some key mistakes at
5:52
Speaker 1: third base again, didn't make some plays, and he's gotten
5:54
Speaker 1: better at third base, but those plays weren't made. Thomas
5:56
Speaker 1: a jac is struggling to learn shortstop on the fly.
5:59
Speaker 1: It's not gonna be perfect. Mason wins seasons. His season
6:02
Speaker 1: is over, so so Jason needs to learn on the fly. Like,
6:04
Speaker 1: you can't fault these players for developing at the big
6:08
Speaker 1: leagues because that's what they're supposed to do. Sometimes you're
6:10
Speaker 1: gonna have games that look like that Saturday that it
6:13
Speaker 1: came from a collective effort on top of the bullpen
6:15
Speaker 1: that's usually nails having an off game, which is allowed.
6:19
Speaker 1: It just kind of showed to me, Okay, the Cardinals organization,
6:23
Speaker 1: they cannot afford to make a mistake. They have to
6:25
Speaker 1: play a perfect baseball game every single day to give
6:28
Speaker 1: them shot a chance to win. And if they don't,
6:31
Speaker 1: teams like the Mariners, teams like the Brewers are going
6:34
Speaker 1: to capitalize and they're gonna they're gonna get you. And
6:37
Speaker 1: that's exactly what happened on Saturday. It almost happened again
6:40
Speaker 1: Sunday with Jose for me and getting picked off on
6:42
Speaker 1: a walk, which I don't think I've ever seen before.
6:45
Speaker 1: It's little stuff like that where it just reinforces the
6:48
Speaker 1: need for me to continue this rebuild and actually do
6:51
Speaker 1: it in a way that's going to bring meaningful change.
6:54
Speaker 1: Not a reset, not a transition, a full rebuild. Let
6:57
Speaker 1: these players figure things out at the major league level.
7:00
Speaker 1: I think Victor Scott the second is going to be
7:02
Speaker 1: a great center fielder for the Cardinals, and I think
7:03
Speaker 1: that that what he's gone through offensively this year is
7:06
Speaker 1: only going to make him better. Nolan Gorman has some
7:08
Speaker 1: things to figure out from from both sides of the ball.
7:11
Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean that the Cardinals was given on
7:13
Speaker 1: these players, right, but it did frustrate. I'm sure it
7:15
Speaker 1: frustrated fans to see just how far ahead the Brewers
7:19
Speaker 1: are and where the Cardinals were at. And that definitely
7:21
Speaker 1: came into play on Saturday.
7:23
Speaker 2: No doubt about it. And you know that, you know
7:26
Speaker 2: the Cardinals during the season a lot of times Ali
7:29
Speaker 2: And I'm not trying to dump on Ali here because
7:31
Speaker 2: Ali's you know, gotta gotta gotta keep stressing the positives.
7:37
Speaker 2: And I get that, but there's somebody I heard so
7:41
Speaker 2: many things this year about, you know, the quality that
7:44
Speaker 2: the Cardinals were taken the bats, the quality there at bats.
7:48
Speaker 2: Sorry and at times yeah, at times, but consistently no,
7:54
Speaker 2: and once again, to watch the Brewers work, work tocounts
7:58
Speaker 2: the way they do. I saw something when I was
8:01
Speaker 2: doing some research for something that I did on a video.
8:03
Speaker 2: You know, this was as a Friday morning. The Brewers
8:07
Speaker 2: had swung at fewer pitches than any team in the majors,
8:11
Speaker 2: but when they did swing, they had the highest contact
8:14
Speaker 2: rate in the majors, and they had one of the
8:17
Speaker 2: lowest swing and miss rates in the majors. They drew
8:21
Speaker 2: a lot of walks, their strikeouts are normal. They just
8:25
Speaker 2: take graded pats. I mean, it's like they know what
8:27
Speaker 2: they're doing up there. You know, you always talk about
8:30
Speaker 2: you know, Brent Brown and Olly. You know, they want
8:33
Speaker 2: to give the player, the hitters, They give them a
8:35
Speaker 2: lot of information. You want them to come up with
8:37
Speaker 2: a plan. They talk game plan each individual pitcher and
8:40
Speaker 2: then they go up and if they had a ga
8:42
Speaker 2: game plan, which they did, but a lot of times
8:45
Speaker 2: you think it ever existed, because it's like, well, what
8:48
Speaker 2: exactly is the approach here? So the strikeouts piled up
8:51
Speaker 2: over the last two months. I know a lot of
8:52
Speaker 2: that had to do with Iron out of being shut
8:54
Speaker 2: down and Donovan being hurt, you know, because those guys
8:57
Speaker 2: don't strike out much. But yeah, I mean the thing
9:00
Speaker 2: that Discipate points me about the Runway season project Runway
9:03
Speaker 2: or whatever is that they you know, I think it
9:08
Speaker 2: kind of disintegrated on them. I mean, we don't have
9:12
Speaker 2: time to get in on this, and I think we
9:14
Speaker 2: can review it more comprehensive fashion. You know, it a
9:18
Speaker 2: upcoming cardinal territory. But this relates to something we were
9:31
Speaker 2: talking about, you know, a couple of minutes ago, you know,
9:33
Speaker 2: about how they need a full rebuild because this year,
9:37
Speaker 2: if you think about it, the whole thing was kind
9:39
Speaker 2: of preposterous. Am I back waivered there moment?
9:53
Speaker 1: No?
9:53
Speaker 2: I mean I had no problem with the so called
9:55
Speaker 2: runway concept. But the problem is you're also you got
9:57
Speaker 2: a manager who kind of was on the hot seat
10:00
Speaker 2: coming in. There were some legitimate questions about his job security,
10:05
Speaker 2: and you had you had the one thing Ali had
10:07
Speaker 2: kept saying all year long, I don't have to tell
10:09
Speaker 2: you because you heard it a million times. It's like,
10:11
Speaker 2: you know, no, our guys want to win, we think
10:13
Speaker 2: we can win. We're gonna try to win. And you know,
10:15
Speaker 2: that's what you got to do with young players. They
10:17
Speaker 2: need to know that winning's important. So we're gonna win,
10:19
Speaker 2: We're gonna try to win, We're gonna try to win. Okay,
10:21
Speaker 2: that's fine, but then you know he's still saying it
10:26
Speaker 2: when obviously they have no chance to make the playoffs,
10:30
Speaker 2: and they have players that are trying to play hurt
10:33
Speaker 2: who really, quite frankly, shouldn't been playing trying to play hurt.
10:36
Speaker 2: And so you're at cross purposes because because I think
10:39
Speaker 2: most people could get on the whole runway thing, but
10:43
Speaker 2: you really can't have a true runway season if you're
10:47
Speaker 2: also saying but no, no, no, no no, But we're
10:48
Speaker 2: also trying to players how you handle Plus am I
10:59
Speaker 2: still here? Sorry you're here.
11:01
Speaker 1: I can hear you, but I can't see you anything.
11:05
Speaker 2: They you know, you know, young players want to do
11:09
Speaker 2: well for themselves. They think they're getting an opportunity, but
11:12
Speaker 2: sometimes it seems like the priority is like, well, if
11:15
Speaker 2: this guy comes back, he's got to play because we're
11:17
Speaker 2: still in this even though you're not. It's just the
11:20
Speaker 2: whole thing was cross purposes too many times because it
11:24
Speaker 2: wasn't a clear mission. That's a problem. You can't have
11:26
Speaker 2: missions were three missions baked into one season. You have
11:30
Speaker 2: to have a clear mission, and they really didn't have
11:32
Speaker 2: a clear mission. They were trying to straddle that line,
11:35
Speaker 2: and frankly, that is just not that's that's not going
11:39
Speaker 2: to lead to a happy conclusion. It just isn't. You're
11:41
Speaker 2: not going to achieve what you wanted to achieve on
11:43
Speaker 2: either end, not fully. So you sort of you sort
11:47
Speaker 2: of miss out on both things because you're trying to
11:50
Speaker 2: do both things when the purpose should have been like
11:53
Speaker 2: a single minded purpose on one thing.
11:56
Speaker 1: Anyway, Yeah, that's fair, and I feel like that's what
11:58
Speaker 1: the Cardinals tried to do. We talked about it earlier
12:00
Speaker 1: in the season, of trying to do both, trying to
12:02
Speaker 1: win and develop at the same time. And if there's
12:06
Speaker 1: one thing that they learned or they answered in this
12:08
Speaker 1: season is that it was really hard to do both.
12:11
Speaker 1: And if that's where the players are in your organization,
12:14
Speaker 1: that's okay. But that's why the rebuild next year needs
12:17
Speaker 1: to actually be a rebuild where you're not trying to
12:19
Speaker 1: travel the fence or do both. If you went out
12:21
Speaker 1: there and you try to win with a bunch of
12:23
Speaker 1: players that were developing at the same time, those players
12:26
Speaker 1: need further development. Okay, at least you've answered something this season.
12:30
Speaker 1: Next year, switch the strategy, embrace more of the rebuild.
12:34
Speaker 1: It's not going to be fun, it's not going to
12:36
Speaker 1: be competitive baseball. You're going to see a little bit
12:38
Speaker 1: of a worse play, missing fundamentals, plays that should be
12:42
Speaker 1: made not be made. That's the nature of a rebuild.
12:45
Speaker 1: But if that's the focus to get the Cardinals where
12:47
Speaker 1: they should be in a couple of years, well then
12:49
Speaker 1: that's what they should do. So Bernie, and with you,
12:52
Speaker 1: let's let's focus. Let's switch gears a little bit to
12:54
Speaker 1: our Draft Kings spotlight. We'll talk about our Draft Kings
12:58
Speaker 1: player to watch in just one moment. Okay, all right,
13:05
Speaker 1: before we get there, Bernie, I'm going to reset your
13:07
Speaker 1: screen so we can see you again. Give me one second.
13:15
Speaker 1: Are you there?
13:16
Speaker 2: Yeah? Can you hear me?
13:17
Speaker 1: I can hear you, but I still can't see you.
13:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know what's up. I apologize unless you
13:22
Speaker 2: want me to reconnect or something or try that.
13:24
Speaker 1: Let's try that and I'll start our all DraftKings segment.
13:27
Speaker 2: Okay, I'll do that. I'll be right back with you.
13:31
Speaker 1: All right, Cardinal Territory, our DraftKings player to watch coming
13:35
Speaker 1: into the final homestand of the season, which is crazy
13:38
Speaker 1: when you think about it. Well, that's mister Nolan Arnado
13:41
Speaker 1: who will be activated off the ten day il tomorrow,
13:43
Speaker 1: that is Monday. Manager only Marmal said to us in Milwaukee.
13:47
Speaker 1: He will be in the starting lineup play third base
13:51
Speaker 1: for the final two weeks of the season. Let's see,
13:53
Speaker 1: we're gonna get Bernie back here, Bernie there, yep. All right,
13:58
Speaker 1: still I still have nothing but a black score.
14:01
Speaker 2: I apologize for that. Well maybe maybe I can just
14:05
Speaker 2: I don't know, revert to the bad screen to try
14:08
Speaker 2: to go you talk and I'll try to figure this out. Okay,
14:12
Speaker 2: I apologize too.
14:13
Speaker 1: No worries. This is what happens when the middle of September,
14:17
Speaker 1: end of the season, doing a podcast right after a
14:19
Speaker 1: seven day game or seven day road trip. But no, no, no, no,
14:22
Speaker 1: we'll be back and playing third base for the same
14:25
Speaker 1: as Cardinals. He'll finish the year there, I would imagine
14:27
Speaker 1: that he will be the primary third baseman once more.
14:30
Speaker 1: Brendan Donovan returned to last week, so that's exciting. Alc
14:32
Speaker 1: Burroson back as well.
14:34
Speaker 2: So yes, you.
14:35
Speaker 1: Lose Mason Wynn, but you still have those three players
14:37
Speaker 1: back in the starting lineup and that will help hopefully
14:40
Speaker 1: the offense for our Nato. I know that it has
14:43
Speaker 1: not been the season that the Cardinals have wanted him
14:45
Speaker 1: or that he's wanted to have. I mean, he's missed
14:47
Speaker 1: six weeks of play in the second half. This is
14:49
Speaker 1: the guy that's been on the inter list just four
14:50
Speaker 1: times in his I believe thirteen year career. For him
14:55
Speaker 1: to be able to come back in the final two
14:56
Speaker 1: weeks and show hopefully that he can still play, that
14:59
Speaker 1: he's still got it, that will be important and hopefully
15:03
Speaker 1: as the Cardinals look to go into the off season,
15:07
Speaker 1: we'll probably be talking a lot more about Nolan Arnatto
15:09
Speaker 1: and if he'll be a Cardinal again next year. Call
15:11
Speaker 1: it deja vu, where we all know what we're looking
15:13
Speaker 1: at again. At least we're prepared this time for what
15:15
Speaker 1: that could look like. But that's our player spotlight because
15:18
Speaker 1: it will be nice to have one of the best
15:20
Speaker 1: third basemen in baseball back at the hot corner. The
15:23
Speaker 1: Cardinals have really needed it. I thought I had some
15:25
Speaker 1: conversations around the club this past series where the Cardinals
15:30
Speaker 1: defense without Mason Winn and Nolan Arnatto on the left
15:33
Speaker 1: side takes a fallback dramatically, and we've seen it. This
15:36
Speaker 1: is a Cardinals team, based on their starting rotation and
15:39
Speaker 1: their bullpen, that really needs a lockdown and field defense
15:41
Speaker 1: because of the amount of groundball contact. Having Nolan Arnatto
15:45
Speaker 1: back will be helpful. I hopefully these games won't feel
15:47
Speaker 1: as non competitive as they have for quite a few
15:51
Speaker 1: weeks now. I'm excited to see what Nolan will do
15:54
Speaker 1: back in the lineup to close out the season and
15:57
Speaker 1: if he can boost his trade value at all, because
15:58
Speaker 1: I imagine Cardinals fans will be talking about that once
16:01
Speaker 1: more this offseason. Speaking of talking, let's see we can
16:04
Speaker 1: get Bernie back. Let's let's try. He well, I can't
16:09
Speaker 1: see you again, Bernie, but we can talk. That's fine.
16:12
Speaker 2: I'm really sorry. I have no idea what happened to me.
16:14
Speaker 2: I don't know what technology. That's all right, no one,
16:18
Speaker 2: No one needs to see my ugly mug. Anyway.
16:20
Speaker 1: No, that's not true.
16:21
Speaker 2: So go ahead.
16:22
Speaker 1: You're there in spirit, and if you're watching on the podcast,
16:25
Speaker 1: I don't even know he's gone. So that's our that's
16:27
Speaker 1: our player Spotlight presented by DraftKings. You can go and
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Speaker 1: Can we have a short disclaimer for you all before
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Speaker 1: we get b back to you.
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17:06
Speaker 1: All right, Bernie, while you were momentarily away, we talked
17:11
Speaker 1: a little bit about Nolan Arnado. We're turning off the AISL.
17:15
Speaker 1: What would do you think would be a successful end
17:18
Speaker 1: of season for Ronado. And do you think the Cardinals
17:20
Speaker 1: will actually trade him this offseason?
17:23
Speaker 2: I think if they're going to play him, and again
17:26
Speaker 2: I'm not saying they shouldn't play him, because it put
17:38
Speaker 2: it behind him. So I think if you're going to
17:39
Speaker 2: try to trade him, it's you need to establish that
17:42
Speaker 2: he's not broken down. So I understand the logic and
17:44
Speaker 2: playing him, although again here we go, it sort of
17:47
Speaker 2: defeats the whole. Well, this is a runway season. You
17:51
Speaker 2: know you got to you got two weeks left, and
17:53
Speaker 2: if Nolan Gorman or someone else isn't playing third base,
17:56
Speaker 2: it's kind of like, okay, well what happened to the runway?
17:59
Speaker 2: And it is isn't that they're doing anything wrong, but
18:01
Speaker 2: it's just the idea that it really can't be a
18:03
Speaker 2: runway season because of the way they set things up
18:07
Speaker 2: and what the reality was after Aronauto traded down Veto
18:11
Speaker 2: that trade to Houston. So even down to the very end,
18:15
Speaker 2: it's like it's a contradictory plan for twenty twenty five.
18:19
Speaker 2: I just I'm not even ripping them for the third
18:22
Speaker 2: base thing, but I'm just saying it's kind of it
18:25
Speaker 2: kind of sums up the season, but I do think
18:27
Speaker 2: they need to play him, and obviously he's still got
18:30
Speaker 2: his his skill defensively, and my hope would be for
18:35
Speaker 2: him because you know how much failure can't quantify it? Well,
18:48
Speaker 2: what do you mean by that? I mean it could
18:51
Speaker 2: be just as simple as like a lot of hard contact,
18:53
Speaker 2: maybe not a great batting average or whatever, but just
18:56
Speaker 2: driving the ball, showing that there's something, there's some ustle
19:00
Speaker 2: there he can hit with some authority. Would that move
19:04
Speaker 2: the needle much in terms of teams wanting him in
19:06
Speaker 2: a trade? Probably not. But on the other hand, if
19:11
Speaker 2: he plays most of the final two weeks and he's
19:14
Speaker 2: just absolutely awful and he looks over matched offensively, just
19:18
Speaker 2: looks really bad at the plate, then teams that have
19:22
Speaker 2: some interest but they're not sure that could that could
19:26
Speaker 2: kind of move them to the all due respect, but
19:30
Speaker 2: no way, we're not interested that side, that side of
19:33
Speaker 2: the aisle. So I don't know. It's with the Cardinals, man,
19:37
Speaker 2: it's always complicated, right, It's never it's never simple like
19:42
Speaker 2: what the mission is. It's always complicated.
19:45
Speaker 1: So that should be theirs their slogan next year, just
19:48
Speaker 1: Cardinals T shirts. Cardinals baseball. It's complicated. I'm gonna make
19:53
Speaker 1: one of those. I would wear it. I would wear
19:54
Speaker 1: it every day. My thing with Nolan Arnado coming back
19:57
Speaker 1: is twofold one. We talk a lot about Gorman not
20:00
Speaker 1: being able to play third base every day and not
20:02
Speaker 1: having an opportunity to play consistently in this runway season.
20:05
Speaker 1: I'd like to point out that with two separate sins
20:07
Speaker 1: on the injured list, Gorman still played. Coming into play Monday,
20:10
Speaker 1: one hundred and three games. He had three hundred and
20:14
Speaker 1: seventy three played appearances. Over the course of his four
20:17
Speaker 1: year career, he's had over fifteen hundred plate appearances, over
20:20
Speaker 1: thirteen hundred at bats. Okay, so he had, especially this
20:24
Speaker 1: season where he was able to play consistently at third
20:28
Speaker 1: base every day, plenty of runway for the Cardinals to
20:31
Speaker 1: decide what he's had, and it's been better. But over
20:35
Speaker 1: the last six weeks that strikeout where he has skyrocketed
20:39
Speaker 1: and he's fallen back into old habits and third base
20:42
Speaker 1: does need some work. It's getting better, but it does
20:44
Speaker 1: need some work. So I think that the Cardinals have
20:47
Speaker 1: actually given that transition runway to Nolan Gorman. He hasn't
20:51
Speaker 1: exactly seized it like he would have hoped to, and
20:53
Speaker 1: I think he'd be the first to say that. But
20:56
Speaker 1: I do think that they've had enough to see from
20:59
Speaker 1: Gorman to decide what they can expect at least coming
21:01
Speaker 1: into twenty twenty six. For Arnauto. It remains to be seen,
21:07
Speaker 1: and hopefully we find this out soon. How a new
21:09
Speaker 1: front office will deal with the full note trade clause.
21:11
Speaker 1: A veteran who was owed over forty million dollars for
21:14
Speaker 1: the final two years of his contract, an ownership that
21:16
Speaker 1: is not necessarily eager to eat the money and has,
21:19
Speaker 1: for the history of their tenure refuse to eat money
21:22
Speaker 1: on big contracts like this. But I don't think Nolan
21:25
Speaker 1: Arnado can be a Cardinal next year. I don't think
21:27
Speaker 1: you should have been one this year.
21:28
Speaker 2: And I agree, I agree with you.
21:30
Speaker 1: I agree with you someone who has all the respect
21:32
Speaker 1: in the world for a number twenty eight. But when
21:34
Speaker 1: you think about what they're doing, what the Cardinals are
21:37
Speaker 1: doing right now is absolutely what is best for their
21:39
Speaker 1: organization long term. It's probably the worst thing that could
21:42
Speaker 1: be for Nolan Arnatdo's personal career, and it's better for
21:45
Speaker 1: both sides. Two part ways at this point. So Heim
21:47
Speaker 1: Bloom coming in has a very hard task to do.
21:51
Speaker 1: Move a superstar, move a franchise name, and do so
21:55
Speaker 1: knowing that this player has a full no trade clause,
21:57
Speaker 1: knowing that he only has a select list of teams
21:59
Speaker 1: that he would for to go to because he'll be
22:01
Speaker 1: thirty four years old thirty five next year and wants
22:04
Speaker 1: to play for a contending team. He's played in just
22:05
Speaker 1: eight postseason games his entire career. So we as we
22:10
Speaker 1: saw last year, there are not a lot of places
22:12
Speaker 1: in this little Ben diagram of things that the team
22:14
Speaker 1: needs and the player needs that fit. Then you add
22:16
Speaker 1: in the money and the contract and the decline offensively
22:19
Speaker 1: from Nolan this year, it gets even more complicated. Maybe
22:22
Speaker 1: I'm crazy with all that in front of us. I
22:24
Speaker 1: still think they trade him, and I think it's gonna
22:26
Speaker 1: be one of the first things they do. Now, as
22:28
Speaker 1: we revisit this episode in February and Nolan Arnado is
22:31
Speaker 1: going to Jupiter again, I don't want to hear it,
22:33
Speaker 1: but I'd like to be an optimist. We had a
22:35
Speaker 1: new front office and maybe a change perspective from the
22:37
Speaker 1: player would result in a different outcome than what we
22:40
Speaker 1: saw this year. It's just better for both sides. If
22:42
Speaker 1: Nolan Arnatto is actually traded this winter.
22:45
Speaker 2: And listen, I think it's incumbent upon ownership to make
22:49
Speaker 2: it happen. If if getting a deal done that would
22:54
Speaker 2: make Arnatto happy, what he would approve. But also, I
23:07
Speaker 2: mean eating half of it. Maybe it all depends on
23:11
Speaker 2: who the other team is. They're just gonna have to
23:13
Speaker 2: eat a lot of that contract because I don't I
23:18
Speaker 2: just don't see teams lining up to pay Arnatto just
23:23
Speaker 2: for his defense over the next two years. And listen,
23:25
Speaker 2: I think his defense is still really good, but it's
23:29
Speaker 2: not It's not as great as it was for such
23:32
Speaker 2: a long time. It's still well above average, don't get
23:35
Speaker 2: me wrong, but not at the career peak levels. So
23:40
Speaker 2: he's slipped a little bit. But he's still in a
23:42
Speaker 2: way that can help the team win. But if he
23:44
Speaker 2: can't hit at all, I'm not sure that just given
23:48
Speaker 2: the glove down there, really provides enough value. He doesn't
23:51
Speaker 2: run the bases very well because he's not fast, and
23:53
Speaker 2: that's okay, So the Cardinals are going to have to
23:57
Speaker 2: go above and beyond if they've got someone on the
24:01
Speaker 2: line is interested in him. They the Cardinals cannot take
24:05
Speaker 2: an out that's to get that done. They're going to
24:15
Speaker 2: have to have a reality check about what's necessary and
24:17
Speaker 2: they're gonna have to do it. And then if they're
24:20
Speaker 2: not going to do it, then I don't really know
24:22
Speaker 2: what the heck they're again, well, well then what what's
24:27
Speaker 2: your plan? Now? Again we have to ask you how
24:30
Speaker 2: many years? And I'm not none of this is I'm
24:32
Speaker 2: Bloom's fault, but you know, are we going to be
24:35
Speaker 2: sitting here in twenty twenty eight saying, well, what what
24:38
Speaker 2: plan this year? You know, what, what's your plan? We're
24:40
Speaker 2: not We're not sure of the plan. They got to
24:43
Speaker 2: remove They got to remove all obstacles. They all these nags,
24:49
Speaker 2: all these knots that are that are formed because they
24:52
Speaker 2: either don't want to pay a team to take a
24:54
Speaker 2: guy off their hands, and you know, they they have
24:57
Speaker 2: position or redundancy. They they in the past have given
25:01
Speaker 2: contract extensions that came back to bite them, and just
25:05
Speaker 2: on and on and on. Just all these things need
25:08
Speaker 2: to be untangled. And you know, when these other teams
25:12
Speaker 2: have gone into a rebuild, it was pretty easy trade
25:24
Speaker 2: off players. They let other players walk, They don't give
25:27
Speaker 2: contract extensions to get someone like Ironado transferred. They're just
25:33
Speaker 2: gonna have to suck it up and pay off a
25:35
Speaker 2: big deal of a big share of his contract. That's when.
25:52
Speaker 1: I'm known to be lose Bernie. We might have lost
25:56
Speaker 1: some guys, we might have lost him. But while he
25:59
Speaker 1: comes back, I'll go ahead and echo those points. The
26:04
Speaker 1: Cardinals have ownership. This is not a high bloom decision.
26:07
Speaker 1: Ownership has to be willing to eat some money here
26:10
Speaker 1: or change how they evaluate the ur and auto trade
26:12
Speaker 1: for that to actually happen. And I feel at this
26:16
Speaker 1: point maybe they would entertain this a little bit more
26:18
Speaker 1: because they know this is pretty much their only option.
26:21
Speaker 1: All right, quick message from surf Shark. Hopefully we get
26:23
Speaker 1: Burning back. Keep our fingers crossed. We'll be right back
26:26
Speaker 1: here at Cardinal Territory.
26:27
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26:29
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26:37
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Speaker 2: What does that stand for? Crafts Virtual Private network?
26:42
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27:29
Speaker 1: All right, Bernie is still dealing with technical difficulties. That's okay.
27:32
Speaker 1: We'll go ahead and end this one with a preview
27:35
Speaker 1: of the last home stand at Bush Stadium for the
27:38
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five season. Three games against the Cincinnati Reds,
27:41
Speaker 1: who are very much in the postseason. Hunt off day
27:44
Speaker 1: on Thursday, and then the final home series will be
27:47
Speaker 1: against the Brewers, and hopefully that goes a lot better
27:50
Speaker 1: than how the series at American Family Field.
27:52
Speaker 2: Went.
27:53
Speaker 1: Let's go ahead and look at these standings coming into
27:57
Speaker 1: Monday's game, the wildcard, Philly's brewer is going at it
28:02
Speaker 1: for the one and two seed. Dodgers are sitting in
28:04
Speaker 1: a comfortable third spot. The Cubs, they look like they're
28:08
Speaker 1: going to lock up that fourth spot with the Padres
28:10
Speaker 1: and the Mets barely hanging on. They won a game
28:13
Speaker 1: after losing eight straight. You look at these teams that
28:16
Speaker 1: are going to be battling for the sixth spot. Here
28:18
Speaker 1: ahead of the Cardinals who are seventy three and seventy seven,
28:21
Speaker 1: you have the Cincinnati Reds who are seventy four and
28:23
Speaker 1: seventy five, the Arizona Diamondbacks and even five hundred at
28:25
Speaker 1: seventy five to seventy five, and the San Francisco Giants
28:27
Speaker 1: seventy five seventy four. So there is about three and
28:31
Speaker 1: two and a half games, excuse me, between the Cardinals
28:34
Speaker 1: and the Giants, and then the Mets have a game
28:36
Speaker 1: and a half lead over the Giants, but I also
28:38
Speaker 1: believe New York has a tiebreaker over San Francisco. So
28:41
Speaker 1: it's very complicated. It could be very chaotic, especially because
28:44
Speaker 1: the Cardinals play the Giants three times and the Reds
28:47
Speaker 1: three times, so there can be some chaos here, again
28:50
Speaker 1: not exactly proclaiming that the Cardinals will make it into
28:53
Speaker 1: the postseason, but they could really mess up other teams
28:56
Speaker 1: chances there. He is, he's back for the end. Vernie.
29:00
Speaker 2: I either need better wireless or better equipment or both.
29:03
Speaker 2: So anyway, I need to rebuild. I need to re
29:06
Speaker 2: I need a reset.
29:07
Speaker 1: I think at this point we were all day to day.
29:10
Speaker 2: Anyway, let me finish what I'm saying, and I'm sure
29:13
Speaker 2: the great editors there can put it together are saying.
29:16
Speaker 2: So ownership's got to be committed to spending what it
29:19
Speaker 2: takes to make an Iron out of trade happen. And
29:22
Speaker 2: if they don't, then I'm not sure. You know, again,
29:25
Speaker 2: I'm not sure what exactly their their purposes of keeping
29:29
Speaker 2: Iron out and when there was a chance to move them,
29:31
Speaker 2: that's all I'm saying, When if there is a chance
29:33
Speaker 2: to move them, And it's always we were saying, you know,
29:36
Speaker 2: it's always complicated with the Cardinals. You know, teams that rebuild,
29:39
Speaker 2: they rebuild. You know, they trade who they want to trade.
29:43
Speaker 2: They don't worry about hurting feelings. They make moves based
29:47
Speaker 2: on what's best for us over the next to get
29:50
Speaker 2: where we want to go over the next three years
29:52
Speaker 2: or so. We can't take anything else in the consideration.
29:56
Speaker 2: We can't try to fool the fans into thinking we're
29:58
Speaker 2: still going to try to win, when really we're not
30:00
Speaker 2: going to be in any way, shape or form ready
30:03
Speaker 2: to win. The whole point of this is to get
30:05
Speaker 2: back to where we can win, so they can't be
30:08
Speaker 2: doing this toe in the line thing. And I think
30:11
Speaker 2: the hour and out of thing just kind of symbolizes
30:13
Speaker 2: all of this. Although once again it must be pointed
30:17
Speaker 2: out that he could have gone to the Astros and
30:19
Speaker 2: he turned it down, so it's not all on the Cardinals.
30:23
Speaker 2: Arnado had the contractual right to veto a trade. I
30:28
Speaker 2: respect his opinion on what he wanted to do. It's
30:30
Speaker 2: his career, so but the point is it could have
30:33
Speaker 2: worked out differently. But I just worry about you know,
30:38
Speaker 2: you know Gorman, you were we were talking earlier. You know,
30:40
Speaker 2: Gorman didn't pass the test, so to speak. He didn't
30:43
Speaker 2: solidify his future as in, yeah, we have to have
30:46
Speaker 2: that guy in the lineup one hundred and thirty, one
30:49
Speaker 2: hundred and thirty five games next year. He didn't really
30:52
Speaker 2: do enough to solidify that Jordan Walker didn't solidify that
30:55
Speaker 2: at all, and so I'm using those two as an example.
30:58
Speaker 2: So what does that mean? Does that mean, Okay, we're
31:01
Speaker 2: going to try to trade them? Does it mean we'll
31:05
Speaker 2: trade one of them? Does it mean no, we're we're
31:09
Speaker 2: gonna send them into the minors they can have to
31:11
Speaker 2: earn their way back to the big club. They're not
31:14
Speaker 2: going to open the season with us. I don't know
31:15
Speaker 2: what it means, you know. So it's until heim Bloom,
31:20
Speaker 2: you know, brings a lot of clarity of the situation.
31:23
Speaker 2: Probably not going to have a really good idea.
31:27
Speaker 1: And isn't that so so wonderful? And a season designated
31:30
Speaker 1: for answering questions that we suddenly have more questions than
31:34
Speaker 1: answers heading into twenty twenty six seems like that journey
31:37
Speaker 1: that can be our next episode next week, because I
31:40
Speaker 1: think that's actually a really interesting topic to dive into,
31:43
Speaker 1: because you're right, there are not a lot of answers
31:45
Speaker 1: readily available for this Cardinal squad, and it likely won't
31:48
Speaker 1: be until we get into the off season. So well
31:51
Speaker 1: us to talk about at least here Cardinal's territory Cardinals Breads.
31:55
Speaker 1: Starting Monday, we have pitching tomorrow, Michael Maby. I'll just
32:02
Speaker 1: want to great question math tomorrow. All right, there we go. Yeah,
32:06
Speaker 1: I'm really on it, Bernie. Sometimes we just gotta.
32:10
Speaker 2: We just gotta try our best, grind it out.
32:12
Speaker 1: You gotta grind it out, grinding out of bats here
32:14
Speaker 1: at Cardinal Territory right now, Bernie ll be back for
32:17
Speaker 1: signed up from the Cardinals as well. Waiting for a
32:20
Speaker 1: day so I wan't announce the person yet, but that
32:23
Speaker 1: should be exciting. And uh yeah, I'm here at Cardinal Territory.
32:25
Speaker 1: We're very happy for the support as always. Thanks for
32:27
Speaker 1: sticking with us, Bernie. Anything you have coming up work wise, No, just.
32:32
Speaker 2: Gonna be doing you know, uh my daily video and
32:36
Speaker 2: daily column for Stale Sports Central, Gas House Gang and
32:40
Speaker 2: Rush Redbird Rush Hour on KMOX. We'll have Ali Marmel
32:44
Speaker 2: on Tuesday as he is every Tuesday, and then I
32:47
Speaker 2: do the Seeing Red podcasts. In addition to this, I
32:50
Speaker 2: do the Seeing Red podcast with Will Leach. We're gonna
32:53
Speaker 2: record that tomorrow. So I'm a busy boy. I like
32:55
Speaker 2: it that way. I'd be I'd be Lord knows what
32:58
Speaker 2: I'd be doing if I didn't have stuff to do
32:59
Speaker 2: to work related that I love doing, so I probably
33:04
Speaker 2: be out there just wandering around the neighborhood. People calling
33:06
Speaker 2: the cops saying there's a strange man walking around in
33:09
Speaker 2: a bathrobe. I don't could you come.
33:12
Speaker 1: Talk to, get him up the street, get him back inside.
33:14
Speaker 2: No exactly, you know anyway, So, yeah, Katie, you're among
33:18
Speaker 2: the people that give me something to do, so I
33:19
Speaker 2: appreciate you. Well.
33:21
Speaker 1: I'm glad I can be of service, and hopefully the
33:23
Speaker 1: Cardinals will give us something more to talk about over
33:25
Speaker 1: the next Homestand so for Britney Mchlis, I'm Katie Moo.
33:27
Speaker 1: Thanks always for watching Cardinal Territory. We'll be back with
33:30
Speaker 1: you next week.