Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 576: Exploring The Myths Around Quality Deer Ground and Overall Hunter Effort with Nathan Mrnak:

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Ep. 576: Exploring The Myths Around Quality Deer Ground and Overall Hunter Effort with Nathan Mrnak: · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the wired to hunt podcast, home of the
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: modern white tail hunter and now your host, Mark Kenyon.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Hey everyone, welcome to the wire to hunt podcast. I'm
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: your guest host, Tony Peterson, and today I'm speaking to
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Nathan Murnach, who is not only one of the best
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: white tail hunters I know, but also the CE OF
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: BASE Camp Lisa. All Right, folks, welcome to the wire
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: to hunt podcast, which is brought to you by first light.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: You've probably figured out that this is not the voice
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: of Mark Kenyon. Mark was actually supposed to record an
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: episode this week, but he got a lead on a
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: vintage Jurassic Park try Sarah tops toy and he is
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: on a mission to buy it to complete his collection. Now,
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: I know you might think this is a joke, but
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: it's actually not. Mark had an unfortunate incident in third
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: grade where he didn't get that toy for Christmas and
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: it has haunted him ever since. Feel free to ask
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: him about it. This is all true. So anyway, hopefully
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: he'll get that squared away so he can come back
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: and do his job, but for now you have me.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: So all right. We've listened to Andy May, Mike Stroff
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: and Zach Ferrenbaugh the last three weeks talk about big
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: bucks and how we often give them too much credit.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: Today I'm wrapping up this rabbits with Antler's month with
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: a guy named Nathan Murnach who is an absolute white
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: tail killer. Murnach started out as a police officer before
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: joining Cabella's for a decade, and now he works as
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: the CEO of Base Camp Leasing, which is a service
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: that facilitates leasing opportunities for white tails across the country,
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: but also handles real estate for folks who are looking
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: to buy their own dear ground. This is a really
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: interesting perspective we don't off and hear from on this podcast,
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: and I'm telling you, not only does Nathan offer up
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: plenty of good information on how to get yourself onto
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: some solid deer ground, but also how to hunt it correctly,
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: whether you're really on premo dirt or on public land.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: I had a blast talking to him and I think
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: you're gonna love what he has to say. Nate, how
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: you doing, buddy? I'm doing real good, Tony, real good.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: It is a pleasure to get to speak with you. Man.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: We haven't we haven't connected in a while. I miss you, Buddy.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: I miss you too, man. We had some good times,
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: didn't we? We did we. Uh, we chased some turkeys
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: down there in Missouri a few years ago and uh,
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: we've talked a lot about deer and I actually I
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: met you working on a book for Tom Miranda a
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: million years ago and we just hit it off and
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: I just remember thinking, you know, this is this is
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: a dude that understands white tales. I could talking to
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: you and then getting to getting to spend some time
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: with you on your property in Missouri. They're just seeing
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: how you had it set up and here in your
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: stories about hunting there for yourself and with your daughters.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: It was like this guy, he just gets it. Like
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: there's there's certain people you meet who you can just
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: tell understand white tales on a really deep level, and
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: I put you in that category. Man. Oh that's that's
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: a humbling, humbling statement to hear, I can tell you,
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: especially coming from me, Tony. I really appreciate that. So
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: I wanted to talk to you and wrap up this
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: rabbits with Antler's month, because you you come at this
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: from a different perspective. You know, we had Andy and
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: Zach on talking public and then we had Mike Straf
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: on talking about his perspective as an outfitter. But you're
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: a guy who started out at Cabella's and now you
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: work for base camp leasing as a CEO there, and
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: you you kind of work in this space of buying
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: hunting land and leasing hunting land and man, I gotta
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: imagine that's just burning so hot right now. It is,
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: absolutely has been. It hasn't slowed down in at least
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: but in the last two years, with all the distry
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: actions we've had out there, the demand's only gotten higher
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: and properties changing a lot of hands out there on
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: the real estate side and on the leasing side. Boy,
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: if we've got a good property out there, it does
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: not last long. Yeah, I bet, I bet. I want
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: to talk about that, but let's talk first about how
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: did you get to the point, because you had a
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: really cool property there in Missouri, uh, that you that
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: you bought and you you developed and you've you've sold
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: since then. You sold a couple of years ago. But
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: how did you settle on that property first? Ah, you know,
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: really it was the area. It actually was in Mercer County,
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: kind of the North Central Missouri. I knew I wanted
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: to be around that area. I've been hunting just south
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: of there actually, um about gosh, I don't know his
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: Sullivan County, but the half hour from that property for
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: several years and I had always go up to Mercer
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: Tony and around Princeton and have supper and all that stuff.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: And boy, I'd see these big bucks be pulling in
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: all the time on these guys trailers in the back
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: of these trucks and it was pretty amazing to see
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: all those successful hunters and I thought, well, this area
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: is pretty special. And so that specific property, I will
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: tell you it was. The eighty acres was the first
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: piece at Boughton and I acquired another thirty acres a
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: year later right alongside of it. But it was all Tony.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: It came down to all about access on how that
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: property laid out, how I thought that I could I
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: could get in there and and yeah, go, you know,
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: enter and exit from the stand locations without really putting
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: pressure on that property. Yeah, so you you kind of
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: read the area and you know this is probably being
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: a little facetious, but it really seems like there are
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: places out there that are are like Iowa, two point
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: oh or kind of Iowa Jr, you might say, and
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: you know I I'm hunting a property in southwestern Wisconsin
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: along the river in the bluff country there, and it's
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: you know, I can look and see Iowa across the
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: river and when you drive around there in the evenings
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: and looking bean fields, you feel like you're in Iowa.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: It's it's different, you know, the season structure and some
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: of the pressure and stuff, but you know you can
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: get pretty close and that area that you were hunting
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: in in Missouri. You know it's Missouri, so it's not Iowa,
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: but man, you're you're bumping up on the kind of
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: hunting that you can find sometimes in Iowa. Absolutely absolutely,
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: and I can tell you one of the biggest selling
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: points for me was before I even purchased the property,
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: I tried to meet the neighbors and and understand, you know,
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: how how they hunted, got to know them a little
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: bit more and where they were at and in what
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: I call that, you know, your typical hunter's journey. Um,
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: you know, are there a bunch of young guys and
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: gals out there that are shooting everything, or do they
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: have management practices in place? All those things factored into
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: that property that is knowing, you know, if I put
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: the time and effort in and did the right things
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: out there from an habitat perspective, that I could, you know,
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: contribute with my neighbor in producing some pretty good white tales. Yeah,
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: and that at that point you really can't make that
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: enough because even though you know you're talking about it
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: from the perspective of, you know, being a potential land buyer,
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: you know with with the interest of just, you know,
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: having a good place to hunt, but really, when you're
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: talking about keeping bucks dumb or keeping Bucks killable and
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: not nocturnal and the whole thing, what's going on around
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: you is as important as what you're doing. Yes, so
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: how did you manage to do that though? How did
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: you manage to just did you go on on x
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: and look up everybody around here? What did you do
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: to to end up meeting the neighbors? I did, and actually, Um,
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: there's UH, one of the gentlemen actually lived in Kansas City,
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: so he was hard to connect with that first, but
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: then I found where he stayed around there when he
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: hunted the property and were we were able to connect
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: and before too long, Tony, I can tell you we
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: were sharing Um, Troi cam photos of historic trail camp
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: photos that he had and I could tell he was
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: feeling me out a little bit as well, just trying
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: to understand what my approach was. Um, at that time,
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: you know, I had two young daughters that hunted with
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: me and for them I just wanted them to have
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: a great experience. It wasn't always about shooting a mature animal,
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: but he understood how, you know, I would approach that
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: property and and if they did shoot a smaller one
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: or something like that. For the first year he was
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: totally happy with it, but he knew I wasn't putting on,
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: you know, UN needed pressure on that property as well. Sure,
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: and I knew the same thing from him. Yeah, I mean,
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: that's him. That's really important. So would you say, well,
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: I got two things for you here. So you must
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: be like a trust fund kid or you must have
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: inherited a ton of money to buy that land. No, no, no,
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: my goodness. I'll tell you what, if you knew my
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: humble beginnings in northern Minnesota, our Fraser was constantly full
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: while game, because that's how we survived. Absolutely not. It's
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: hard work, you know. Twelve years at CABELA's. I was
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: a police officer even before then, but just putting in
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: the time, saving up. It always been my lifelong dream
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: to own my own eighty acres. I don't know why
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: eighty acres always stuck with me, but it did, and
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: boy it took me some time. You know, I went
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: through that journey knock and talk and getting permission Tony
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: to leasing, being able to afford to lease a property
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: and then, you know, own a piece of property. That's
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: that's I think a lot of people can relate to
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: that journey. Yeah, and that, you know, you remind me
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: because people here, you know, they'll hear, oh, he bought
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: eighty acres and another thirty acres in a sweet county
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: in Missouri right along the Iowa border, and people just assume,
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: you know, that we're talking to somebody who came from
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: money or you know there's something going on there. And
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: this the same thing happens to my buddy the land.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: I was just mentioning that I'm hunting in southwestern Wisconsin.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: He told me because I met this this friend of
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: mine fishing tournaments when I was like twenty and we
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: just we hit it off. We love to hunt, we
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: love to fish and so we fished together for a
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: long time and they started hunting together and he told
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: me after he bought this property, he bought ninety acres there.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: He said when he got his first job, which he
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: still works at. He's worked his way up at this
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: insurance company, he said he wrote down his goals and
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: one of them was to buy eighty acres somewhere that
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: would be just like that he would want to hunt
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: and that his future kids would have a place to hunt.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: And it took him, you know, twenty years to get there,
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: but it was always a goal of his. That's correct. Yeah,
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: now I can relate to that for sure. And and
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: you know, thank goodness I have such a supporting wife.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: You know, she we didn't have a house on the
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: hill in Sydney Nebraska when we bought that property. I mean,
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: if you've been to Sydney Nebraska before the corporate office
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: or the former corporate office of Cabella's, you can see
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: all these very nice houses. And now we bought a
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: foreclosure man down by the railroad tracks and uh, you know,
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: she supported me in my effort to continue to save
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: up to buy that property. So we went out without,
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: you know, some things as a family, but at the
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: end of the day, those experiences we had out there
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: as a family. You know me and my daughters, and
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: you can't put a price tag on that. Brother. Yeah,
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: how long were you a police officer? Four years. That
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: was enough. That was enough time. That was enough. That
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: was in Appleton, Wisconsin. I was surrounded by great men
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: and women at that department. Yeah, and then, and then,
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: how long did you work for CABELA's? Twelve years, twelve years,
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: and then we were bought out by my division. CABELLA's
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: outdoor adventures was brought out by worldwide Trophy Adventures and Um,
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: I knew with that transition with bass pro shops that
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: that town may may lose a lot of folks and
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: I figured it was time to move on and find
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: a different career and think, goodness, Steve Man at base
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: camp police and give me a shot. And it's been
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: outstanding since two thousand and eighteen. I love it here.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: And when you when you were a police officer in Wisconsin,
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: weren't you hunting a bunch of public land? And Northern
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: Wisconsin at that point was yes, and ago, all the
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: way I mean north, in any any place where I
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: could get away from people. That's I really cut my
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: teeth up there on public land. And you know, being
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: from northern Minnesota, Tony, you know there's a lot of
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: public land up there too. I mean we we went
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: out and hung sets on and you know how many
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: thousands and thousands of forest land they have up there.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: and to find the right trail to sit on that night,
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: because you're not hunting over agriculture or anything like that.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: It's your your hardwoods or or your typical northern Minnesota
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: deer hunt. You know. Well, yeah, I mean really, we
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: we look for all these ways to, you know, bring
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: the deer down to our level and, you know, trick them.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: But I always say you know, if you if you
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: can go to the big woods, and I'm positive this
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: applies to a lot of southern hunters in some of
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: the big woods down south too, if you can, you know,
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: consistently get on deer and, you know, any level of
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: decent buck in those situations, especially on public land, I
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: think you can go most places and the deer are
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: going to seem, you know, maybe not dumb to you,
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: but just easier to figure out correct. I couldn't agree more.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: I mean growing up, growing up in northern Minnesota. Tony,
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: I can't remember. I don't know if you remember this,
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: but you used to have to put in for a
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: dough tag. You know, it was tough, tough hunting grown up,
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: but it just be able to passion even more. Yeah,
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: it's that those I think hunting some starvation spots like
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: that really they kind of they kind of like center
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: your focus a little bit and you go okay, like
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: I would love to have a more fun, more enjoyable hunt.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: And when you do that stuff, it's not like it's
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: not fun, but it's a different kind of thing to
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: be in such a low dear density spot where you're just,
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: you know, you're kind of really working in the moment,
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: like you said, you know, find a trail or find something,
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: but it's not like it's not like you can say
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: I know dear are going to bed there and they're
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: gonna go to that field or or at the very
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: least I know I know dear going to end up
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: in this food source up there in that bigwood situation.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: It's such a different deal. It's totally different. You're looking
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: for transitions and just the most minor things that you
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: can capitalize on. The topography of the property or transitions
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: within the woods between hard woods and Um, you know,
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: your poplar trees and all that stuff up there. I
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: mean you're you'll find it, you just you've got to
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: put on a little bit more time. I think. Yeah,
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: I really think, and I know you've done this quite
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: a bit, when I am working on big woods deer,
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: I feel like I'm elk hunting, where most of my
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: goal is to find a concentration of animals and when
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: I do that I have this little window of time
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: where I can work them and either I'm gonna blow
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: them out or they're gonna move or I'm gonna run
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: out of time or something. But you're like the you
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: know when you when you're hunting, you know I will Illinois,
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: something like that. You're like, I know there's a ton
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: of deer here if I can see trees, like I
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: know there's deer there, but when you get up into
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: that north woods or those big wood situations, you're like,
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: I gotta just find some deer first, right. Yes, yea.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: The last experience I had of something like that, Tony,
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: was I actually made a trip to northeast Washington. I
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: believe I was probably maybe ten miles south of the
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: British Columbia border, up there in the in the dead
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: of winter and December, hunting with the bow like an idiot,
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: you know who, using my climber to get up there
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: and it was humbling. It's the first time I ever
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: hunted in the mountains for a white tail. But I
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: missed that challenge. I hate to say it. You know,
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: I feel a little bit more spoiled now that I've
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: hunted in Nebraska and in Iowa, Wisconsin a little bit
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: now Indiana. Um It all for me, Tony, and I
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: was has come down to in order to kill a
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: big buck, you should be hunting where there's big bucks,
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: right and your opportunities in northern Minnesota and, let's say,
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: northeast Washington. For me it was a little bit different tactic. Uh,
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: I want to talk about that, but I want to
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: back up a second. How does anyone end up going
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: from where you were to Washington for a late season
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: hunt like that? Just the challenge, Tony. I've since I
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: was probably fifteen years old, I've wanted to shoot, you know,
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: an antlered white tale in every state possible and through research.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: This could be wrong, but I think I found that
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: there's forty four states that hold white tales, and so
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: my quest before I kicked the bucket here is I
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: would love to shoot, you know, White Tail Buck with
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: my bow and every state possible. And that one came
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: up that year. I had time off and made the
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: drive and went up there and made it happen. It
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: wasn't the biggest buck in my life, but I can
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: tell you through the experience it was probably one of
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: the most special besides the deer that my my daughters
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: have harvested. How did you find a buck out there
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: in Washington? What was the strategy? Oh boy, Um, honestly, Tony,
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: is probably more luck than anything, but I can tell you,
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: pulling out your map and if you've got a favorite
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: hunting map app out there, that they're so valuable because
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: you can do scouting from a thousand foot view and
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: really narrow down your focus on where you need to
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: go at seven days to get it done. I knew
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: there was a lot of snow on the ground. Um,
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: so I focused on where I thought I needed to
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: be first and then I let the sign tell me
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: exactly where I needed to hang with all that snow
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: on the ground. Interesting what level. I guess I should
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: say this. How many states do you have left to
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: kill an Antler Buck in? Oh Boy, I'm pretty sure
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: I'm at twenty three states right now. So what would
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: that be? I mean, not, not too far. I'm forty
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: five years old, so I've got, you know, almost twenty
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: more to go, I guess you boy, you broke through
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: the halfway point. That's right. That's right. Did you do
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: you find? Because that sounds like a sort of a
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: young man's goal. That sounds like somebody who's, you know,
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: like really getting after it and and has the bug.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: But it also sounds like a goal that would sort
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: of get put on the back burner when you have
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: kids and now your your focus has changed a little bit. Yes, yeah,
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: and then if you buy your own property, you tend
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: to start thinking about all the efforts and all the
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: work you put out there and and it's harder to
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: get away. Um, I think that's one of the opportunities here.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: Actually working for at Leasing Company, I get to see
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: all these great properties come in and, contrary to belief,
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: I don't get first pick. They always go out to
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: our our memberships first. But if I do see one
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: on there and I'm a member as well and I
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: can get it. I can get it, so it's that's
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: kind of helped out a little bit. Yeah, and so
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: do you? Do you focus more of your efforts, because
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: you you're you're a guy who's traveled a lot for
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: hunting opportunities. Do you focus more of your efforts now,
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: with the girls at the age they are, by staying
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: closer to home? Absolutely, you know, you only have your
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: kids for a short period of time in this life
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: at home and cherish you every moment with them. So
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: when they're when they're able and willing to go out
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: with me, I I do. And do you learn? Because
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: I've been talking about this and writing about this quite
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: a bit lately because something that happened to me that
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: I just didn't see coming was, you know, I've I've
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: got a couple of little properties in northern Wisconsin that
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: I bought, you know, within the last decade, and I
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: don't really like hunting them myself that much. I kind
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: of I really like working on them. I like working
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: on little food plots and, you know, planting apple trees
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: and all that stuff. I love taking my daughters there
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: and one thing that I just like has hit me
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: so hard is how much I learned about hunting by
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: having to take somebody who doesn't really know a lot
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: about hunting. Yeah, that is so, so true. Uh. One
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of times you start talking to
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: them about the basics, right, and I think we there's
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: all these gidgets and gadgets and you name it out
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: there for US hunters to the next best thing. But
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: you start walking out there with somebody who's got fresh
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: eyes and you're teaching them about sign and why you're
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: sitting up where you're sitting, and it's just the pure
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: basics of hunting and I think you learn from it,
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: but you also remember a lot of things you probably
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: discount nowadays. Yea, well, that's that's one thing that hit
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: me was, you know, when you when you have enough
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: experience and you walk into the woods, you I don't
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: know what you're doing. You're just like I'm looking for this,
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: I'm going to sit this, or you just it's pretty
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: easy to figure out how to like always at least
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: feel like you're keeping yourself in the game. But when
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: you have to take somebody who's new to this and
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: not only, like you said, explain it, but but put
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: them in a position where it's like I gotta get
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: a deer within twenty yards of them broadside, and and
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: we have to really do this together. Even though you
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: know you're the one kind of driving the ship, you're
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: still like, you know, if they move or they're in
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: a situation where they're they're gonna maybe get busted. You,
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: you're like, you have to think about all that stuff
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: and man it. I feel like my setups for my
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: daughters and and that process is helping me become a
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: better hunter in ways I just did not see coming,
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: no doubt, no doubt. And there's no better moments out
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: there than with your own kids, you know. Oh yeah,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: it's it's pretty Badass, man, and it's it's something. You know.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: There's probably a bunch of youngsters listening to this who
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: are like maybe can't really relate to it yet, but
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: you know how this is. And so you said you're
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: forty five, I'm forty two. Man, there there's just things
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: in life with when you start having kids and you
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: start realizing stuff that you just you just do not
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: see coming, you know. Like I was, I was thinking
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: about this the other day, like how much I love
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: coaching my girls and softball or basketball and some of
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: the other teammates and just how fun it is to
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: like see them excited and and just like challenged. And
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: I feel the same way when I take them hunting,
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: like there's this like anticipation, there's a little nervousness, but
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: it's like a learning process and you can see just
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: the confidence come in and how exciting it is like
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: to watch somebody who hasn't seen a million year off
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: a tree standard from a ground blind. All of a
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: sudden deer walks in and you can hear their breath
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: just like you know, the breathing gets more excited and
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: it's just like it's so freaking cool on you can
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: feed on that for the rest of the year too.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: You know, it's it's those haunts are are probably the
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: haunts I look forward to them most. Yeah, you think, uh,
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: and I think that's I think that's an interesting thing
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: for a guy like you to say, because you've hunted
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: a lot of different stuff and spent a good portion
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: of your life, you know, kind of chasing those those
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: hunting adventures out there, and to hear that is it's
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: interesting because I think a lot of people would look
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: at you, know, your history and some of the some
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: of the different, you know, phases of your hunting career
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: and go that's that's got to be the best. Like
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: if you're traveling all over and you're chasing that dream
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: mckillan and Antler buck in every state, or you're drawing
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: a mountain goat tag somewhere, like I think a lot
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: of people woul look at that and go you're not
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: going to top that moment. Man, like that's the best.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: But it changes. There's there's it's different, yes, and all
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: of those things, you know, pale in comparison to sitting
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: there with your child and watching things happen the way
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: you you prayed and wish they would happen, and just
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: to see them go through those experiences. You really of
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: it because you know when we were going through our
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: first experiences, we we felt the same way and you
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: can relate to it and that bond, after they've been
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: through that, that bond with your your child out there
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: just continues to grow and and strengthen because you can
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: see the same appreciation you had when you had those
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: experiences in your own child and what they're going through and, Um,
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: there's just there's nothing better I'll take a white tailed
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: deer hunt with my kid or a Turkey hunt with
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: my kid any day over what I believe is the
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: pinnacle of what I've ever done, which is the mountain
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: goat hunt in Idaho. Do you do you worry with
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: your daughters, because I know you know, starting where you
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: started in northern Minnesota, I know they're hunting is a
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: hell of a lot easier and probably more productive. Do
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: you worry about that at all? Because I think about
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: that with my daughters a lot, you know, like my
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: girls put in a couple of days and their first
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: year and it took me four full seasons to kill
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: my first year and I'm like, am I making this
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: too easy for them? You know, I think a lot
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: of things have changed though Tony too, if you look
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: at the management practices and just pure you know, deer
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: numbers out there. Um, you know, I could probably take
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: them back to northern Minnesota and have a much better chance,
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: but I do get get what you're saying. Are they?
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: I think there are some folks out there that, you know,
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: it's the third year hunting and they've already killed, you know,
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: three bucks over, one fifties and one sixties. And that's
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: a little bit different. But yeah, I think so. I
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: can relate to what you're saying there. Yeah, I mean
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: it's it's just it's a little bit of a balancing
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: act because you don't want it so easy that they
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: don't appreciate it, but you don't want it so hard
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: that they hate it. Right. Let me ask you this
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: because I get I get hit up for this all
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: the time. Uh, do you feel like, did you feel
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: any differently when you're so you have daughters that you
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: got into hunting? Did you kind of have to recalibrate
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: yourself a little bit taking girls out versus what you
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: might think you would have to do taking boys out?
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: Because I know, man, I've got buddies who have boys
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: and some of them are just your typical give me
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: a BB gun, I'm gonna kill everything. Give me a
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: pellet gun, I'm gonna kill everything like there's a there's
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: a blood lust in them, and at least my experience
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: with my daughters is like there's not, there's not that
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: same kind of blood lust, but there is like a
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: real competitive nature to them and there is like a
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: desire to just see animals and and be out there right. Yeah,
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: that I thought that the biggest difference from when I
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: was grown up in the experiences I had and how
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: I felt, you know, out there hunting. I could definitely
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: see with my daughters I had to be more articulate
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: about what their experience and how they would feel before
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: they even felt it. Um and, and I got it
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: from taking my oldest out. Oh, Tony, you sat in
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: that food plot with me in Missouri. We had a dandy,
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: Dandy Buck come out and I had trained her so
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: well that we would not take a quartering two shot
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: at all. And knowing the the the rifles she was
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: using at that time, when this buck stepped out, it
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: was a no brainer. Yes, it was quartering to a
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: smidge in, but I could not convince her to pull
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: the trigger, to put those crosses where they needed to be,
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: because it was broadside or nothing right. Um and she
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: held me off, Tony, I she absolutely held me off.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: I have it all on video and it walked out
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: of our life forever and you hear a big sigh
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: from me like, oh my gosh, what just happened? But
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: she was so proud of herself, like Nope, Dad, you
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: said not to do it, so I'm not going to
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: do it and uh, what's it's a funny story, Tony,
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: but I ended up killing that deer h two and
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: a half years later and and so it's still part
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: of the family. Uh. And she doesn't. She loves it
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: as much as I do, you know, because she had
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: that experience with me. But I guess with with the
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: girls it's it's always been more about the experience and
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: emotion that goes into what we're doing and I feel
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: like they've been so connected to that experience on a
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: different level than than what I had because of growing up.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: What I want to do is get out there and
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: put an Arrow in as many things as I could.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: Right with them, they're they're more specific to no, I
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: want to shoot the deer. You want me to shoot dead? Ye, well,
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: and that's why I just had a conversation uh, with
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: Nicole Belki, uh, who's you know, she's in the hunting
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: industry and she hunts a lot. We were talking about
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: a mutual friend of ours who UH is, you know,
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: she's relatively new to hunting, but she's through her job,
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: she's got to hunt quite a bit of different stuff
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: and she's she's mostly a rifle hunter. And they call
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: her the dainty sniper because she's little, she's petite, but
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: she's a she's a she's a really good shot and
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: you know, Nicole was explaining like watching, watching Aaron shoot,
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: and she's like, you know, she takes so much time
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: to make sure that that shot is perfect, and that's
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: something that I kind of hadn't really faced with my daughters,
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: but I like has been happening where it's like, you know,
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: you and I, let's say we go out and we
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: call in some Turkeys and we've got a shotgun, like,
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: I don't know, it's just pretty much over. Like you,
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: you know, the first good shot you get, you're gonna
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: dump them and it's over and you sort of take
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: that for granted. And then you hunt with somebody who's
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: like I'm not going to screw this shot up, like
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: I am doing everything in my power to ensure that
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: this is like this is going to go exactly how
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: it's supposed to go because of how I've been told.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: And that's like a nice reminder that I think we
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: forget about because we have so much experience and you know,
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: you might hunt with people who you know don't don't
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: think about shots that way as much. But when you
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: get out there with somebody who does, and I don't
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: know if this is, you know, more specific to to
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: new women hunters or not, I really don't know, but
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: when you see that, it's really interesting because there is
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: like such a focus there don't screw this up, like
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: make this shot exactly how you're supposed to, and it's
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: pretty neat to see. Yes, it is. It is a
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: great reminder. Yeah, I can tell you there's been deer
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: in my life that I've walked out that I didn't
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: take the first good opportunity that I probably should have.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: But what's always been in the back of my mind
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: is that is what I've I've planted implanted in in
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: in my daughter's uh, you know, hunting ethics and and
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: and all that stuff, is just don't take that shot. Um,
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of deer have have gotten
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: away because of that, which is good. You know, you
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: don't want to wound an animal, but I totally get that. Yeah,
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: it's uh, I think it's one of the I think
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: it's neat that that exists. I think it's also a
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: good reminder of how, you know, new hunters don't necessarily
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: understand how to think about shots very well. Like when
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: you think about you know somebody who's season, they're watching
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: a deer move and they're thinking, my point of impact
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: just changed by three inches, or I need to aim here,
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: I need to bring that pin back a little bit,
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: or the crosshairs back or forward, and for us it's
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: sort of automatic. into new hunters it's not. And so
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: when you when you talk, when you preach that broadside
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: or nothing game, it's like, okay, now now that's it.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: But you're not. You're not. They're not learning that that
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: quartering away shot is great or or you can take
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: that quartering too shot in the right situation if you
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: can slip it in there, or it's not too severe,
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: and that that just comes with experience. But you have
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: to start with a baseline somewhere, and often it's just that,
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: that that broadside shot, and here's where you aim every time,
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: and that's like a jumping off point for them until
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: they have enough experience out there. Right. I think that
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: the biggest thing for me, Tony, was knowing. I believe
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: in Missouri you could start hunting. Forgive me, I could
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: be wrong, but I believe it was eight years old
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: with with a parent, and so when you have a
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: and I waited until my girls were ten. They just
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: weren't ready and weren'ting fishing enough with with a rifle
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: yet to get out there during youth season. Um, but
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: I did not want them to have that bad experience. Yeah, well,
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: just just curious. What, what rifle did you start them with? Um,
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: they both were shooting youth model to forty three at it.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: That's a good caliber. So let's let's talk about your
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: Missouri property a little bit. How did you because you
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: you mentioned when you were when you were in the market,
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: and you you like that area, had some experience close
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: to there and you talked to the neighbors, you saw
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: how it laid out and you mentioned that access. Wise,
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: you could sort of envision this property turning into something
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: where you knew you'd be able to get into stand
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: spots and and set things up so you wouldn't educate
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: the deer. How did you know that? Like, how did
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: you look at this? What did this property have that
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: you looked at that said that to you? Um, honestly,
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: you know, if if I were to go back a
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: little bit and think about this, I believe it was
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: more or less the prevailing winds during the time I'd
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: be hunting Um and and really the there was a
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: little maintenance access road that kind of bordered the east
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: side of it and knew I could get some sell
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: side access as well. So I thought, you know, prevailing
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: winds northwest and I know where these deer are betted.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: I can get behind them on their betting area or
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: I could get front of them through an easement that
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: was kind of on the on the northeast side of
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: that property as well, to get them coming from their
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: bed and going to a destination field or one of
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: my my food plots. Um. It really dialed into where
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: I believe these deer were betted. When I walked that property.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: One of the best things that I found, and I
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: was able to walk this property in April, and clearly
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: I mean the amount of sheds I found in there Tony,
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: for there there had to be, you know, sheds in there,
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: maybe three years old. They were not on a little bit,
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: but I could tell that these bucks were hanging in
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: their late season, no matter what. Um and being mostly
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: a timbered track with some destination fields to the west
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: where these deer, where I found their sheds were in
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: some pretty good thickets. So I had a really good
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: idea that deer were betting their late season. AH, they
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: would probably be there, you know, in in the early season.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: For me too, it's just natural betting areas Um and
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: taking a step back and looking at a thousand foot view.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: I actually then contacted a local logger in there and
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: I had them create some access points for me, uh,
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: and got some good timber value out of it so
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: that I knew I could sneak in uh to those deers.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: So there were certain access points I had to create,
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: but I had the luxury of that because, you know,
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: I owned the property at that time. So how how
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: right were you when you when you say you're looking
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: at this and you know, you walk it and you go, okay,
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: prevailing winds or north or west, or northwest in the fall.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: I know I can cut in on this east side
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: or coming from the south and you know, you you
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: lay that plan out, but you know this isn't like
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: a perfectly flat piece of ground. You know, like there's
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: there's some terrain to it. I mean, how close were you,
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: like how how close to getting it really, really right
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: were you the first year I felt like I was
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: spot on my very first sit on that property Tony,
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: October six. I still remember it because I drove from
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: Sydney Nebraska, started pretty early in the morning. It's an
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: eight and a half hour trip out there, pulling the property.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: About one o'clock in the afternoon. There was a huge
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: cold front coming through. Temperatures are really going to drop
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: and I was in my stand probably by two and
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: I end up killing a hundred and fifty three inch
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: deer by three thirty in the afternoon. Um, so, and
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: I felt like spot on. Right. He came from exactly
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: where I thought these deer would be betted and and
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: knew he was going to start. Heck, he was already
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: making a scrape. You know. That's the first time I
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: saw him was when he was making a scrape just
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: that that cold that cold weather, had got him on
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: his feet a lot earlier. Um, and this is by
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: the way, this is I didn't have. I didn't pull
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: a single trail CAM card or nothing. I had him
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: out there but I didn't even know I had this
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: d a camera until after I had shot him and
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: went and pulled cards. Now what changed, though, the very
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: next year, is I started to do some habitat improvement
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: and I started adding. Added like a three acre food
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: plot and I cleared out a logging road and widen
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: did a little bit and planted that into some food
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: for once. I did that, my initial assessment would not
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: have worked. I struggled my second year because I had
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: made some habitat changes in there and therefore I changed
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: the deer movement interesting. So, in doing something that would
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: almost universally be viewed as a positive improvement to your
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: hunting land, you you changed the game for yourself. I
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: did I did. I took what was pretty much a
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: three acre overgrown little pocket inside that woods and and
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: mowed it down and spread it and planted and clover
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: and chickory and I thought now I'm in it right,
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: all set up on the edge of this thing. It's
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: a beautiful in the pocket type of food plot. And
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: there you sat on that with me. It was gorgeous.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: But once I did that, those deer no longer used
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: the same trails because now they were skirting the food
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: plot and they were wind checking, uh, you know, the
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: food plot, versus walking the regular trails right through the
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: center of that thing. That is that is something that
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: you you really can't know until you experience it, and
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: you know, you get your hands on a property that
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: you buy or that you lease or, you know, maybe
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: it's your gramma's farm and you can go in there
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: and do some improvement to it. That's not something that
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: we think about a lot where you know, you you
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: make that kill plot or you you do that improvement
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: and think, okay, well, the deer always just moved along
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: this ridge. Now they have even more of a reason
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: to do it. But you also start hunting there a
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: lot and you change the cover and you change the
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: habitat and you might actually, you know, push them to
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: do something a little bit different than you expect instead
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: of just having this easy setup where they're just drawn
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: to that spot. That's exactly what had happened. I learned
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: a lot from my second year of landownership. Um, you know,
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: being eight hours away, I didn't get there a lot Tony.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: You know, it was tough to get out there, but
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: when I was out there I worked on some weekends
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: and and did what I needed to do. So by
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: the time hunting season came around it was a humbling
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: experience to see how my my improvements to that property
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: absolutely changed the dynamic of how those those mature gears specifically,
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: we're using that that property. Yeah, I mean I think
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: there's a really a really poignant cautionary tale there, which
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: is when we do something that we think is going
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: to make it easier, it often comes with some baggage
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: that we don't see common you know, like we we
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: flip on the outdoor channel and we see dear get
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: shot in food plots all day long and we're like okay, well,
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: that's the answer. And Man, it can be, but it
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: can also be something that convinces us, you know, kind
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: of like trail camera usage or cell camera usage, where
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: it's like this is the answer to my problems. It's
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: like man, this, this can be the answer to some
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: of your problems, but it can also create new ones. Yes,
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: absolutely can. Yeah, the only way I got around that piece, Tony,
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: the next year's I decided I kind of during the
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: UH shed season. I could clearly see the established trails
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: around that food PLAT and how deer we're moving around
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: me in places where I would never see them right.
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: But what I what I did recognize is there were
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: certain spots on that trail where they literally could see
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: the food plot and if nothing was out there during
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: you know, the Rut, it's not going to pull in
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: a book. So I just did plot screen all the
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: way around that and and picking it up a little
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: bit and dropped a couple of trees to get the
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: deer to move, move around those trail was the way
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: I wanted them to do it. And Uh, it changed
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: the year three was phenomenal for me after I figured
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: it out. Well, we're bumping into that on my buddies
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: land down there in southwestern Wisconsin. We were. We were
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: there in the end of the end of August hanging
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: some stands. I was actually setting it up for our
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: one week in November shoot. And you know, we realized
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: last year when I hunted there, I saw all these
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: bucks sent check this little knob up on this ridge
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: and it was just like, I don't know, it was
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: like the spot right, like what I was in a
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: good spot, but that was every deer I saw either
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: started there or ended there. And you know like what
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: you're talking about with deer being able to look into
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: your plot and go, well, there's nobody there, there's no
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: reason to go there or scent check it. Really well
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: they're going to do that instead of just blindly running
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: out into those plots. And I kind of had that
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: and epiphany about this. But when I got in there,
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: it's just this knob that had all these doughbeds on it.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: It's a little thicker and the way it sets up
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: is like if you're a buck and you want to
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: send check that little betting area there, you don't have
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: very many good options. You gotta Get up tight on
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: it because it's a pretty tight little ridge and the
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: way they're going to skirt around it, you're just like
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: they kind of have to do this here if they
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: know those are better there and they can't really cheat
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: the system a whole lot. Like they got to get
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: up in there pretty tight. And so when you know,
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: when I walked in there, I'm like this is the spot,
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: but then I look at the tree that I flagged
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: in the winter when I was shed hunting out there
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: and I go that tree is way too crooked to
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: hang a double set in. And you know how it is.
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: It falls away. And so in the in the winter,
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: you look at it and go this is it, just
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: and you don't really think it through. And then when
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: you carry a bunch of crap in there to hang
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: the stands. You look at it and go it's not
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: right and I tried to force it. Put everything up,
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: pulled everything down and I'm looking at it going you know,
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: I I didn't think through the wind on this situation
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: very well, and that's why I want to ask you
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: how right you got your property in Missouri, because, as
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: this property of my buddies, it's close enough to the
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: Mississippi River where you know, when you're hunting there in
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: the fall, all you hear is people shooting ducks all
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: day long. And I mean you can look across the
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: river to the Iowa side. So you're right there. And
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: what I didn't realize was if I'm planning on a
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: you know, a West wind or whatever, that river system,
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: the Mississippi River system, is affecting those winds so much
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: and those valleys that run up, you know, kind of
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: parallel to the land, are perpendicular to the land. You
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: can't you can't just look at the forecast and be
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: like okay, this is what's gonna happen because when you
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: get in there there's so many terrain features that might
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: be affecting it. It's kind of like you gotta learn
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: like on the fly and you learn how often you
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: get it wrong. And so we were dealing with that
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: on this spot because we're like this is a spot
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: we want to hunt, but I know if it says
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: a West Wind, that wind is gonna shoot up this
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: valley here and it's not going to be exactly what
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: I thought. And so you're always playing that game. And
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: so even though it seems pretty easy to figure out,
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: if you've got private land to work with, it's pretty good,
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: a lot of times it's still kind of a constant
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: work in progress. It is it is a matter of fact.
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: You bring up a good point and there's one thing
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: I'm going to do on my Indiana farm this year
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: and uh, you know, I can look at my my
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: my favorite hunting APP and and see which win direction is,
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: and I can stand out on my front porch and
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: see what the wind direction is. I can look at
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: the flag pole right, but I really want to start
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: going in and sitting some of these sets and and
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: understanding truly how the wind is flowing in in some
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: of these ravines or sidehills that I'm hunting, because I'm
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: still figuring out my Indiana farm by the way, it
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: takes more than a year. I got lucky, so lucky
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: that first year in Missouri. Um, but the what the
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: train can do to your the wind direction out on
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: my property Missouri is ridiculous. There are that's where I sat.
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: I actually set them up for a northwest or a
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: westerly wind and I get down in there and that
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: wind is going the opposite direction that I need that
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: wind to go and I'm pulling out. So I'll ruin
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: a morning hunt and I've really got to start taking
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: better notes on truly what direction of wind I need
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: to actually hunt in those spots. Yeah, and then you know,
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: there's a good lesson there too, because I find myself
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: a lot of times I'll go this, this spot is
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: perfect for a South East Wind, or this spot is
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: perfect for a north or west wind, and if I
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: get into something where I'm like it's got to be
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: straight north or I'm screwed, or it's got to be
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: straight out of the West, I find myself either sitting
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: places where I'm like this is not so great, like
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: I'm probably gonna get busted, or doing what you did,
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: which is like you get in there and go I
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: can't do it, I gotta get out, and then you
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: might sand bag of morning or you might go to
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: a secondary spot and it's just never usually doesn't work
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: out very well that way. And so the more the
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: more your setups allow for a couple of different wind directions.
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: I know this is obvious, but we we don't think
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: about it a lot. Sometimes when we're setting up, it's
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: really important to give yourself that little margin for error
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: and go okay, well, now you know, if that wind
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: isn't perfectly out of the West, if it's cheating pretty
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: hard to the north, I'm still okay, right, Yep. And
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: some of those setups are just there. They're tough to find, man,
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: like you said, you can't you don't really know them
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: until you get in there and you get a season,
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: you know where you go. Okay, this is actually what
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: happens here, right. And it's tough when you're you know,
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: somebody may look at eighty acres and say that's not
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: very big right, Um and and it it is. And
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: when you're talking about how many matureier can that eighty
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: acres hold? And so when you're hunting a specific deer
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: or a specific betting area and you get in there
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: and the wind is wrong, you have a really good
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: chance of educating that dear to the point where you
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: may not see him until rot or. You may not
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: see that dear again. Now I don't want to give
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: to your all the credit, but I also respect them
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: enough to know I've had dear pattern me in my
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: my my access points right. I'll go hunt to set.
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: I've consistently gotten a great buck on camera night after
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: night after night. The winds the same and I'll access
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: that set and I'll go sit there and won't see
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: him and I'll hunt it the next night because the
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: winds right and I don't see him. I'll pull out
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: and the next night he's in there. It's like what
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: is going on? And you start to think to yourself
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: that dear has me patterned. He knows how I'm getting
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: in and so he knows not to not to come
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: that way when I'm around. Um, yeah, it's it's been.
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: I've been educated more times than not on on mature
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: bucks well, and paying attention to stuff like that is
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: real important. I was having a conversation when we were
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: hanging those stands down in Wisconsin with my buddy because
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: the spot that I killed my buck on there last year.
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: was was this just really cool stand over a pond
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: in this valley. I mean it was just a had
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: a lot going for it. It had the right terrain,
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: it had some water, uh, pretty close to that betting Knob,
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: and it just you know, you're you're checking a lot
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: of boxes there and man it was fun. You could
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: you could get in there in an awesome way in
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: the morning and access it and almost you're almost guaranteed
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: not to blow deer out. And the way it set
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: up your wind, if you had the right wind, it
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: was blown over a quarry where they weren't probably gonna
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: come from, and so it was just like fun, you know.
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: I mean the morning that I killed my buck, I think.
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: I think we saw fourteen deer off of that stand,
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: which is fun. Right. You're watching deer. You never have
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: a break of more than a half hour or an hour.
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: And then my buddy who owns the place, he's like,
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna go sit that with a rifle and you know,
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: you can see a lot, you've got a lot of
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: different places to shoot. You could cover some serious ground
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: with a high power in there. And he went in
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: there and the first day sat all day and saw
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: two deer and I go okay, well, that spot is
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: really good. So what happened? Did it get open enough
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: where they saw him come in? Was it the cumulative
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: effect of the Wisconsin Gun season going on? Something changed
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: in there, you know, in a in a two week
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: span where you know, okay, you're not dealing with the
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: heat of the Rut the same way by the time
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: the Wisconsin opener is so you can factor that in
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: a little bit. But you can see so much in there.
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: To not see hardly any deer all day, something changed
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: and you got to figure it out. It's not just,
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: like you said, with a with the deer patterning you
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: on your your entrance route. It's like or your access points.
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: It's not random like they've they've got you somehow there.
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: If they're not doing what you expect them to do,
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: there's a really good chance it's because either somebody else
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: or you tipped your hand to him and they know it.
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: That's right. You know, I think that stuff is is
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: really important. So how much did it hurt having to
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: sell that or choosing to sell that Missouri Property? It
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: hurt so bad because just the history I had out there,
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: the memories that had made with my girls and knowing
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: the quality of animals around there and having such great neighbors.
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: It was very, very tough, Tony, but it was it
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: was crystal clear to me that in order to spend
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: more time with the girls that I needed a property
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: closer to where I now, you know, work and live
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: and and so the decision was made to sell that
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: property and and try to find something in in Indiana.
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: And this was a much different approach this time around
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: and actually finding the property that I wanted. Oh, Tony,
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: it totally different. So I went into Missouri, like I
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: told you, and I got lucky that first day. And
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: how it's a really nice year. This time around. Wanted
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: a project. I wanted to challenge myself to the point
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: where I had to really think about everything I've learned.
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: And I've been around so many great hunters out there,
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: habitat managers and I've just been a sponge for years.
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: But now I wanted to try to put what I've
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: learned to work. So I found eighty five acres in
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: in in Indiana here and the first time I walked
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: the property, Tony, I couldn't find a deer trail. It
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: was like a state park. It was absolutely gorgeous, maples
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: and hickory trees but no undergrowth whatsoever. It was wide open.
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: Plus it had something I've never had before, which was
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: a twenty acre. Uh It was. It was in fescue
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: for Hey, but I could envision kind of an agricultural
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: spot there where I could plant corn and beans, et Cetera,
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: and I've never experienced having that much acres that I could,
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: you know, test my arming skills on as well. So
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: when I first walked the property, I walked away going
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: that it's going to be too much work, and so
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: I passed on it. And I passed on it for
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: one specific reason. It wasn't because it wasn't a big
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: enough project or it was too big of a project.
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: It is because I was worried about one specific way
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: to access this property to be able to hunt it correctly. Well,
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: after a month went by, it still hadn't sold. A
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: couple of folks had looked at it. I decided to
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: take another drive down there and take a much finer
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: look at it and I found a logging road that
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: I didn't know existed. It had to be about twenty
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: years old. That came out to a county road and
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: I thought, my goodness, I wonder how this goes through
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: the property. So I took my favorite hunting APP and
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: I started walking down this logging road and dropping pins
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: and tracing my route and boy, when I was done,
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: I could not believe what I saw. It gave me
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: all the acts I needed to just that one more
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: look to find that hidden gem of how to get
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: in and potentially u you know, hunt, hunt, have really
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: good hunting opportunities on this property. Knowing how, then, you know,
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: my mind started going. There was a blank canvas. Where
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: do I want to hinge cut? What does the logging
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: opportunity to look like in here? I was not interested
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: in the money from a timber harvest. I was only
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: interested in how do we harvest this timber to create
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: the best Turkey and deer hunting habitat? How do wait?
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: How do I put the logging roads in there to
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: help me enter or gain access to enter and leave
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: my stands undetected? How can I use those same logging
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: roads to influence how deer are coming in and out
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: of the property to the agricultural field that I envision having?
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: All those things went to play and now it's year three, Tony,
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: and and I cannot wait for folks to see this.
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: I've I've document at every piece of this journey, from
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: how it was to where it is today, and I
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: think folks would be amazed at what you can do
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: in a short period of time. That's that's so cool.
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: Do you do you find yourself in your experience with,
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: you know, the properties you've owned and you own and
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: you know the least thing you've done? Do you find
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: yourself like constantly being reminded of how much you have
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: to learn on each of these properties, every one of them? Yes,
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: I mean it never stops. that. That's one thing that's
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: a real eye opener, because I always think you know,
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: let's say you you know, let's say you're a die
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: hard public land hunter and you you know you're in
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: Pennsylvania and you're like this is the national forest, Die Hunter,
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: this is these are the couple of sections I hunt,
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: and you're a scouting fiend and you can always get
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: yourself into a position where you're like, I know my dear,
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: I know my dear, I know my dear ground, but
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: you don't. And when you when you have your own
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: piece of ground to work with like my my biggest properties,
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: thirty acres, and you know, this summer I was walking
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: that just because I kind of wanted to, and I'm
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: seeing apple trees I didn't know we're in there, and
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: I see stuff where I go. How do you miss
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: this on thirty acres that you've owned for, you know,
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: seven or eight years and you expand that out and realize,
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: like you just there's so much that you're gonna Miss,
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: even if you're out there all the time. That that
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: that's part of what's like so cool about the whole thing.
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: It is, and I believe me, Tony, you and I
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: both can relate to the guy in Pennsylvania that's hunting
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: some big woods right Um on public land. Going from,
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: you know, that doing the recon you needed you to
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: be successful in that situation, to now owning a piece
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: of property and really having a blank canvas and creating
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: what you want is it was two different it's the
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: evolution of where I wanted to be as a hunter
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: and as a habitat manager. So that's exactly why I
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: went down the path that I did. But Um, yeah,
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: like you said, it's amazing I could walk out on
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: that five acres tomorrow. I've had it for three years
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: and see something brand new or something that's gonna Open
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: my eyes to why don't I have a sat here?
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: It's that's so cool. So, given, given the fact that
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: you have that eighty five acres down there closer to
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: where you live, do you do you still lease any grown?
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: I do. I actually have a lease in Ohio. Why? Uh,
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: that's a great question. I can tell you it's and
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: it's only I've only had it for a year. Um,
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: I do like the opportunity to getting to hunt in
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: other states as well. It kind of extends my season.
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: I will tell you my main focus is my Indiana farm,
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: but if I have an opportunity to go over to
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: ohile and and try to pattern a buck or get
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: on a good one, I'm definitely gonna do it. Yeah,
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: so you're just you're just giving yourself a few more
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: options there when you know, with with your insights into
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: leasing working for base camp, what are people looking for now?
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: Because I know like leasing. You know it's leasing to
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: me is kind of like the box blind thing, you know,
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: when you think about sort of these things that might
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: have grown out of Texas hunting. I remember seeing them.
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: You know, when I started hunting, you'd watch a show or,
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: you know, read an article and you're like, I can't
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: believe somebody sits in a little house and shoots a deer,
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: or I can't believe people are paying hunt land they
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: don't own. And now, you know, it's across the spectrum.
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: Like it's it's so popular, and leasing is just crazy
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: popular right now. Yeah, it's. It's, you know, for the
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: Midwest specifically, you know it's it's obviously not as a
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: mature market or thing. Is is what you'll find down
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: south like Texas, Alabama, Arkansas, et CETERA. Georgia. Leasing has
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: been around for a very, very long time down self.
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: So still in the Midwest you still have those folks
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: that asked the question. You know, why would you ever
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: lease the property? Just go knock on the door and
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: create a relationship with somebody and and and hunt the property?
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: Um and and, as a matter of fact, I've I've
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: heard folks take it a step farther and they're not
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: very happy with with the leasing that that we do
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: right and and part of it is because folks are
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: are starting to uh, it's it's not, it's not cheap. Right,
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: leasing a property is not cheap Um, specifically in certain states.
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: But I will tell you they're getting over the fact
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: that you would have to pay for access nowadays. My
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: my biggest rebuttal to folks who have a problem with
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: leasing today is, you know, we pay for our archery equipment.
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: Our guns are ammo or camouflage, everything, everything else we
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: paid for. That landowner has invested in a property and
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: is willing to allow access for hunting. I just want
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: folks to be grateful for that, because a lot of
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: private landage that they don't have to do it, they
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: wish to do it and and part of that is
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: they get paid for right. Well, I mean I heard
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: Stan Potts say this years ago and it's stuck with me,
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: and his argument was you think that you've had free hunting,
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: you know, say you knock on the door and they
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: let you on there and it's like it was only
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: free to you. Somebody's always paying for it. Somebody's always
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: been paying the property taxes, somebody paid, you know, somebody
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: paid to be the title holder of that Land Somehow,
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: somewhere or some way, and so the idea that you
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: know hunting is was free at one point, and it
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: isn't now. Isn't that doesn't really hold water. It does
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: hold water and I can tell you I've I've had
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: discussions with a lot of our landowners and and they're
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: so appreciative of the the liability coverage that comes with
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: our program you know, we give a five million dollar
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: liability coverage to per policy for our landowner and our
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: covers our hunters as well, and that's really one of
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: the only reasons why they're opening access today is because
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: they feel like they have some sort of comfort level
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: and in knowing they would be covered if an incident
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: did happen. And and so these are landowners opening up
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: their property to any hunters, whether they're in state, out
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: of state, whatever, that they normally wouldn't have access to.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: So I'm very, very proud of our at least in
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: program what we can offer our landowners and the comfort
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: level that we can bring to them with our services
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: and and then the the liability coverage that we provide
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: uh to allow other hunters to continue to get out
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: of the field, because that's the most important thing to me, Tony,
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: is we continue to get, you know, folks in the
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: field enjoying this great sport of hunting. Well, and that's
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: something I've never thought of because I've been banging the
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: drum pretty hard on walk in programs and you know,
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: you know, private land open to the public access programs
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: throughout different states, because I think, I think access to
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: ground and any way we can open it up is
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: a huge win for us and I just I just
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: feel like that's a hill I'm going to die on
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: because I don't see a lot of other solutions to
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: some of the access problems we have going on. But
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: I've never really thought about, you know, leasing services as
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: as being like a vehicle to or, you know, a
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: vessel to open up more land to people. But there
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: are probably landowners out there who weren't allowing hunting and
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: you know, pretty sick of right in that checked Uncle
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: Sam every year for their property taxes or you know
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: however it plays out going you know, man, if I
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: can if I can be covered against liability and I
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: can have some responsible hunters on here who are paying
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: me a decent amount of money to to hunt the deer,
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: that's sort of a win win for everybody and it
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: probably is opening up some land that maybe wasn't accessible
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: to somebody before and absolutely is, and I can I
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: can tell you as well as is some of these
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: landowners did allow hunting, but then it just got out
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: of control. They allowed one person, who invited their buddy,
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: who invited their buddy, and before you know it, you
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: know there's there's five or six hunters out there on
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: a property that really should only be hunting three. Right
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: and and so some of the feedback we've gotten back
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: is we really appreciate you setting the limit of how
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: many people can hunt our property. We feel like there's
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: more control over there. We know the guys a lot
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: better Um and there's so many great relationships have come
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: out of this leasing program to between the Hunters and
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: landowners that I've seen over the years. We've got some very,
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: very touching and great stories. That's that's awesome. What are
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: some of the mistakes people make? Let's say you've got
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: somebody out there, I don't care what state they're in,
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: they're like, you know what, I lost my place, it
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: got developed, or I'm sick of bumping into people on
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: public land. I wanna, I wanna. I can't afford to
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: buy a place, but I want to lease something. What
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: are some of the mistakes people make when they start
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: looking into leasing. Um, they don't do their due diligence.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: That's probably one of the biggest things because it's such
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: a competitive thing today. The demand is so high for
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: a good lease today. I think a lot of folks
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: are are are so eager to get a piece of
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: property that they'll pay in full and just then they
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: go out there and say see that it's not what
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: they thought they were getting. Um. Any leasing program over
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: there should give you at least a week. You know,
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: you put a deposit on on you go out there,
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: look at the property and make sure that's exactly what
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: you want before you put your full money down. I
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: think a lot of folks will understand that. Once that
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: you pay the leasing company. They're a broker. That money
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: goes directly to the landowner. It's no longer in the
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: leasing company's pockets. Right. So still do your due diligence. Um,
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: have you ever looked at, uh, well, you bought your
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: thirty acres, when when you read the write up of
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: a property and you would go up there and look
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: at that property that you're interested in buying and you
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: would see things differently than who ever wrote that property
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: up correct. Sure, and then it happens all the time.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: We as as as hunters, as outdoors men and women,
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: we see things differently. So don't take the write up
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: for its word. Go out there and put boots on
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: the ground and make sure you are getting exactly what
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: you want and then when that is the case, then
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: make sure you secure because they're they're not making any
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: more of it and the leasing is very good. Properties
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: are very hard to come by. So you would say
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: that you see a lot of people get into the
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: leasing game and sort of get a little bit too
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: impulsive with the lease? Yes, yeah, I could see that. Uh,
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: I mean you see you see that in some of
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: these hot real estate markets where, you know, people are
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: buying three quarters of a million dollar houses site unseen
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: just to be in, you know, Catchum Idaho or Bozeman,
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: Montana or something, and I could see that trickling down
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: into the into the competitive space of of leasing, especially
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: in states with probably a high hunter density. Yes, YEP,
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: and I get it. I get it because of the demand,
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: but man, if I'm going to invest my time and
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: money and to go out and hunt property, I'm putting
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: boots on the ground first to make sure it's exactly
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: what I would like to have. Yeah, you you mentioned
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: before I was I was going to ask you this.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: You said, you know, you put a deposit down, then
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: you go walk it. Is that? Is that typically the
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: order of things where if you see, uh, you know,
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: listing pop up on your guys site and go man,
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: that's that's the one I want. It's an hour away
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: from home, it's the right size, the right price, you
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: throw a deposit down, then you go look at it. Yep.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: Yet you put a three deposit down and you've got
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: seven days to get out there and look get it
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: and if you want it, you pay the balance. Um,
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: if you don't, just you're in the market for another one. Yeah,
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: so that's that's basically like kind of like scrow money
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: or like hold money. It's nonrefundable, Tony, it's it's that critical.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: It's the demand is so high. Yes, yeah, so you gotta,
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: I mean you gotta at least have a pretty good idea.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: So do you advise people to, you know, check out
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: the listing and then do some e scouting and, you know,
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: really be honest with themselves before they plunked on that deposit?
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: I would love people to do that. You know, if
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: I gave that advice Tony, I'd tell you they would
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: lose out on the majority of our leases in the
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: Midwest there are specific states that we all have a
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: property rollout on and we release our properties Monday, Wednesday
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: and Fridays to our membership level and if they're not
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: if they don't have a deposit on them in five
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: or ten minutes, it's shocking. Like how how? How high
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: is the interest? And like people, I mean I could have,
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: I bet you have a lease or two right now
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: in Ohio that, if it came up, there's probably fifty
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: people watching for that least to come up. Wow, YEP, wow.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: So it's just and you're you're not seeing any softening
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: of this given the current economy? No, no, and it's
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: to be honest, with the last two years it's it's
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: been the demands to even grown higher. I think people
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: just want to get away and have a spot for
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: their own. I've seen properties out there that are you know,
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: I probably wouldn't, least just because of how it lays out,
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: but folks want to get in the field. It's it's
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: refreshing in a way that we haven't lost that are
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: these leases that you guys are offering? They're all annual renewals, right, yes,
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: and first right of renewal. Got It. Got It. Do
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: you do you see Woll? I mean do they get
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: in it? Do you see people hopping leases a lot,
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: or do they tend to? They tend to stick with one.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: They'll stick with with the good ones. Are Our renewals
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: are pretty Dang high. You know, the same guy who
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: leased it last year's least it this year. And you
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: guys have a real estate division now as well. Yeah,
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: base camp country real estate was formed in two thousand
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: and eighteen just, you know, help out with the demand.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: We were losing a lot of landowners because they were
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: selling their property and and you know, it was a
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: great way to keep these folks in the family. We
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: already knew their property intimately, we had history with their property,
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: and so our our owner, Steve Menk, said, hey, we
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: should start a real state division and continue to take
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: care of our landowners in that fashion, and it's it's
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: been wonderful, Tony. It's been an absolute pleasure to watch
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: this team grow and the culture we have here second
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: to none. I'm so proud of these these guys and
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: gals that are working for us. I mean, I would
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: have to imagine if you take somebody who's serious about
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: deer hunting enough to pay, pay pretty good money for
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: a lease and sort of be in that market all
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: the time, there's probably a fair amount of cross over
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: there from people who are considering buying their own land.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: That is that is correct to me. It's it's the evolution,
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: you know, of not going the talking kind of your
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: D D Y I type of deal to leasing program
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: where now you're leasing your your own property to having
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: enough for down payment to own your own piece of land. Yeah,
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: there's there's sort of a natural progression there and I
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: have to imagine, you know, leasing, leasing is interesting me.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: I've never done it before and you know, you see
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: it sort of as a bridge between the public land
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: knock on doors thing. You know, a lot of people
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: don't want to do that anymore or it's just not
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: a great option where they live, but they can't afford
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: outright by something because you know, you know how it
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: is when you when you go shop for recreational land,
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: a lot of banks are like sorry, we don't, we
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: don't want it. You need to have a lot of
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: money to put down. You know, if you don't have
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: a plan to build on it or something, it's a
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: it's a tough little market to get loans for and
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: just weird. Can Be a weird thing to navigate. And
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: so that that middle ground is is to lease something.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: But Leasing, you know what I mean? That that's like
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: renting an apartment like that money's it's going to somebody
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: else year after year and not going into, you know,
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: sort of your own theoretical piggy bank. And I imagine
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: a lot of people who leased for a few years
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: sort of graduate out of that and go, you know what,
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: I want to put this money into something that I own. Yes, Yep,
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: I can absolutely relate to that. Yeah, it's it's an
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: interesting it's an interesting thing to think about in our
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: space because, you know, I hear people bitch about it
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: a lot and you know, this property get leased up
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: or this guy owning this and not letting anybody in,
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: and I get it. I mean I've lost a lot
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: of places to that too, to that kind of thing,
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: but it's not like it's going to go away and
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: it's it's reality we have to live in and to
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: just be angry with it and instead of maybe look
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: into it and see if you could play in in
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: that space as well. Somehow to me it's a little
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: bit shortsighted, because it's not. I mean we, we are
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: going to be dealing with this stuff with with higher
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: demand for ground. You know that's not going away and
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: you know, when you look at urban sprawl and you
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: look at what's just happening out there with a lot
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: of deer habitat, we are just getting pushed onto fewer
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: places and people are going to figure it out. They're
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: going to figure out a way to have, you know,
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: good deer they can hunt that aren't, you know, constantly
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: being chased by other people. Right. No, I I my
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: perception of leasing before I worked here was a lot
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: different than what it is today. and Um, part of
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: it is just because of the company I work for
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: and how they they truly care about the landowner hunters
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: out there. We talked about all the time how proudly
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: are making sure that we're providing more access to two
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: hunters out there. That's not lost on us at all.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: That's that's our main goal right the second thing is
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: is to be part of a company that actually gives back.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: If if you know we we we support farm rescue
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: and catch a dream and uh, several, several other folks
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: out there, Sportsman's Alliance. We're right there with your typical
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: guy who wants folks um to succeed out there and
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: protect our heritage and our right to hunt and all
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: that stuff. So we're not just sitting back here collecting
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: paychecks from from folks spending their hard earned money on leases.
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: We've actually got a strategy and we're working hard to
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: gain and get more access for folks and and we
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: do give back to our communities tenfold and I love
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: it and that that's awesome. Man. Before we wrap this up,
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: I want to ask you a couple of questions that
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: you've learned about deer over the years. I want to
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: switch gears here a little bit and I want to
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: start this. I want to ask you what's The dumbest
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: thing you've seen a mature buck do? Yesh, it's a
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: great question. The dumbest thing can be. Can Be Iowa
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: private land, it can be northern Minnesota, public, doesn't matter.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: What's what's the one time that sticks in your head
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: where you killed one where you're like, I cannot freaking
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: believe he did that. Well, UH, in Missouri, Sullivan County,
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: I did shoot at a very, very mature animal Um
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: at about twelve yards and I grazed him. I cannot
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: believe I missed that, dear, but he ran another twenty yards, stop,
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: stood broadside, looked back at me like a mule deer
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: and that's all I needed for a second shot. What
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: happened on the first one? The first one, I believe
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: I peaked like it just to me. I already had
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: that deer mounted, I already figured out which way it
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: was going to be turned on the wall, all that stuff.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: I believe that's what happened. Yeah, so you you get,
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: you out, drove your headlights a little bit. Oh, yes,
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: and it was humbling. But I could not believe that
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: deer ran out there and stood it, you know, thirty
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: two yards or so and and look literally broadside at
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: me in the deer stand because he kind of ran
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: uphill and it was too late. Yeah, well, you know,
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: when you say that we always think and we talked
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: about mature books like they would never do something like that,
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: but I can remember deer that have done that to
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: me too. I mean I killed a I killed a
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: hundred and fifty one inch or on public land in
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: North Dakota one time that I missed at twenty yards
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: and did the same thing. He just kind of did
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: that little hop to thirty and then I thumped him.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: And I can think of other deer I shot. You know,
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: the first buck that I killed with my re curve
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: back when I traditional bow hunted some same thing. I
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: missed him close and they did the same thing. It's
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: kind of hot back there to twenty yards and gives
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: you that follow up and I think you know the
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: lesson there for anybody listening to this who doesn't, you know,
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: maybe doesn't have a whole wall full of hundred seventy is. Listen,
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: plan for that second shot, like you know, plan to
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: make a good first shot, but understand that you know,
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: out of let's say you shoot at ten deer, one
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: or two of them might, you know, if you miss,
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: might give you that follow up shot and if you're
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: not ready to get an Arrow, you know, like that
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: second Arrow knocked up and ready to go, you might
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: miss out on that opportunity. Right. I mean I was
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: ready to hang my bolt and my garage for the
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: rest of the year. I mean in those split seconds
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: that I'm reaching for another Arrow, right, like, how did
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: you miss that, dear? And it just it was meant
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: to be. Yeah, it just it just happens. And they
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: they sometimes they don't get it. Man. If they don't,
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: if they don't see you or hear something, you know,
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: really definitive, there's a lot of times where they're going
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: to spook a little bit and and give you a
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: chance to you know, while they're trying to figure out
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: what the hell just happened, you can probably you can
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: find a way to redeem yourself a little bit. You know,
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: it doesn't it's not gonna happen every time, but if
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: you think a big buck will never allow you to
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: do that, even on public land, it's just not true. Right. Yeah,
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: I related back to it. I did not have to
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: stop the deer. He was sitting there eating acorns and
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: I just played with you know, so I didn't put
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: them on alert even before I shot. Isn't it amazing
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: how you can miss a big buck at twelve yards?
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: I would love to say that will be the last one,
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: but I've hunted too long to know now that it
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: could happen again. I hope it doesn't. But Dude, it
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: is so freaking humbling to miss one that you could
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: probably get with a spear like seven out of ten times. Right.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: I'm not too proud to say that I've I've missed
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, it happens. Uh. What? What's something else
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: you learned, especially when you were you're really into your
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: quest to kill an Antler Buck in, uh, as many
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: states as possible, and you're, you know, in the Jive
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: to Washington, you're hunting different areas, you're hunting a lot
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: of public land. What, what's something you learned that you
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: would say that you learned about deer bucks, specifically that
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: a lot of people just give them too much credit for.
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: I would have to say, yeah, that's a really good question, Tony.
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, what's some kind of universal trait or
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: something you saw in deer in your travels where you're like, man,
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: I think people are just overthinking this part about deer uh,
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: that they need cover, they got to eat right and
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: and a lot of times if you can figure out
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: those two things, Um and get in between those two things,
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: you're being good shape, being really good shape. Anywhere I've
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: ever gone, I've adapted to kind of the way that
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: other folks hunt in those areas, but that those two
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: things right there is if you can find the right
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: cover in the signed within that cover Um and find
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: where they are going to eat, you've got a really
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: good opportunity to putting yourself in a good situation. Yeah,
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: that that reminding yourself that it's often a game of
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: bed to food, food to bed, and you know your
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: job is to get in between there is pretty beneficial, right. Yep. Yeah,
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: I remember, man, we were in like seventh or eighth
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: grade football and I remember we were getting our we
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: were getting beat and I remember the coach saying because
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: we had we had good running backs. You know, I
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: was in a farming community and we had some really
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: tough kids that were running backs, and remember him saying
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: thirty three blast, blast, thirty three blast, forty four blasts,
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: over and over and over and over again, because we're
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: gonna get three, four or five yards on every one
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: and we're just gonna grind them down. And I remember
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: thinking like man, we have all these plays and all
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: these options and we're gonna run those two and it worked.
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: Like you just it's just simple and when you look
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: at the world of a white tail and we start
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: to give these bucks so much credit and you know,
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: like he beds here on this wind and he does
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: this on this wind and he's never he's nocturnal all
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: of October and you go, hold on, hold on, he's
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: got to eat and he needs a safe place to
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: lay out through the day. And if you can start
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: finding those two spots and how he goes from one
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: to the other, you've got a lot of this stuff licked. Yes, Yep.
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: And getting in and out on the tective is just key.
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: If you're close right, absolutely key. I I've got spots
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: on my property, Tony Acres, that I would love to
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: hunt every day, but I will not hunt until the
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: right day. Yep, Yep, and that's you know, that that lesson.
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: It's that's a hard one to get across to people
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: who are like hunting public land and they're like, okay,
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: I got a weekend and this is a spot with
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: all the rubs and if I don't go there, somebody
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: else is going to. But learning that if you do
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: go there when it's not right, it doesn't matter, you're
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: gonna get it wrong, you're gonna screw it up, and
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: that that patience you know people will look at this
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: and go yeah, well, sure, you've got eighty five acres
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: of your own land and you can be patient because
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: nobody's going to go in there. But that rule applies
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: everywhere because if you screw it up, it doesn't matter.
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: It doesn't matter what you think about the hunting competition
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: or what big bucks do. If you're like I have
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: to do this because you know if I don't like
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: somebody else is going to screw it up or whatever,
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 1: it doesn't matter because you've already lost the game. Right. Yeah,
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: and I always think about my neighbors are hunting out
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: there too, and if I've got a dear, that their
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: core areas is primarily, you know, around my property. Now
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: dear have a large range, but if I'm getting a deer,
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: you know, more times than not on my eighty five acres,
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: the last thing I want to do is bump them out. Yep, Yep,
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: and you have the option to save them and be patient.
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: And you do. You learn that, though, just just an experience.
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: I mean I I run into that hunting public land
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: all the time where I'm like, I want to go
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: here so bad because I feel that clock ticking and
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: I only have so much time and I know there's
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: a chance to somebody go through there or somebody will
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: go through there, but if you know it's not right,
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: the worst thing you can do is force it right. Yep,
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: we and we do that a lot. Listen, buddy, we
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: gotta wrap this up. It's always so much fun to
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: catch up with you. So much good information here. Where
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: can everybody go to find uh, maybe find their next
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: lease or maybe find a little property buy somewhere? You
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: Bet then go to a base camp leasing DOT COM
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: OR BASE CAMP COUNTRY DOT COM for the real estate needs. Awesome.
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: I love it, man, thank you so much for coming on.
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: I appreciate it. That's it for this week, folks. Be
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: sure to tune in next week for some more white
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: tailed goodness. This has been weird to hunt and I'm
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: your guest host, Tony Peterson, as I always. Thank you
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: so much for listening and if you're looking for more
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: white tail content, be sure to check out the meadiator
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: dot com, slash wired to see a pile of new
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: articles each week by mark myself in a whole slew
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: of white tail addicts, or you can head on over
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: to our wired hunt YouTube channel to view the weekly
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: content we drop