Latest / The Connected Mom / Finding Hope After Losing a Baby
Transcript
- Becky Harling (00:02.419) Okay, it looks like we're recording. Welcome to the Connected Mom Podcast where we have real conversations, helping you to connect more deeply with God, more empathically with your fellow moms, and more intentionally with your child. I'm Becky Harling, your host, and I have with me today, my amazing co-host, Sarah Wildman. Hey, Sarah. Sarah Wildman (00:27.086) Hi, Becky. It's really good to be here. And you know what I love about the Connected Mom podcast is we talk about a variety of things that hit us as moms. And some of those are real blessings and some of those are real challenges. So today we're going to talk about one of those more difficult situations, right, Becky? Becky Harling (00:45.091) Yeah, we sure are. And so we kind of want to give you a little bit of a heads up if you're listening today. And we hope you are. That today's episode is going to be a little bit heavy. And for some of you, it might be a bit triggering. And yet we feel like this is an important topic and we want to bring you hope and healing today. Our guest today is Candy McVicker and she is a co-author with Dr. Gary Chapman. of the book, Holding On to Love After You've Lost a Baby. And Candy's story is incredible. I know you're gonna enjoy her as our guest, but she is beyond being an author and an inspirational speaker. She is an advocate for families who are grieving the loss of a baby or a child. She's the executive director of Missing Grace Foundation, whose mission is to provide support resources, education for families, and professional care providers when there's the loss of a baby, infertility, or adoption challenges. Candy's been featured on Fox News, on conversations with Gary Chapman, on Focus on the Family, and we're delighted to have her. Welcome, Candy. Candy McVicar (02:09.764) Thank you so much. It's a beautiful thing to be here with these beautiful ladies and have a chance to discuss this important topic. Thank you. Becky Harling (02:17.883) Yeah, it really is. You know, I met you, Candy, just a couple of weeks ago, and I was really just moved by how the Holy Spirit flows through you. And you have a hard story. So I want you to start by telling us a little bit of that hard story and why you named your foundation Missing Grace. Sarah Wildman (02:40.446) Mm. Candy McVicar (02:41.1) Thank you for the opportunity to share. Yeah, our journey, I'm actually coming up on my 24th anniversary this month in November. And shortly after getting married, we decided we would start our family. Our hope was to have four children. We thought maybe two biologically and two adopted. We always had adoption as part of our plan too. And we got pregnant and it was a very challenging pregnancy. And I had what's called hyperemesis, where you're really sick and you don't feel good. And I just thought to myself, it's all worth it if I can have, you know, this baby at the finish line. And I never had imagined in my wildest thoughts that there could be something as devastating as what would happen. In the final two weeks of my daughter's life, I had decreased fetal movement. Becky Harling (03:13.149) No. Candy McVicar (03:35.54) And I was a new baby mom, just learning all these things, reading all the books, and there wasn't much on this topic of fetal kick counts and understanding baby's movement. And so I went in and I would get a Doppler check and they would say, you're fine, you're being a worried first time mom, everything's okay. And then I was sent home on my way after just, they would pick up on the baby's fetal heart rate. On the seventh visit, they finally sent me for the ultrasound I'd been asking for repeatedly. And that was the day that our life forever changed. And there was no more heartbeat, and our baby would have to be born stillborn. And she was perfectly healthy. Her body had nothing wrong with it, but her umbilical cord could not sustain a term pregnancy. And so she was a baby that needed a cesarean delivery and a little time in the NICU. And so I went through labor and I actually flatlined during labor and I have an out of body experience where the Lord gave me a choice to stay or to go with Him. I chose to come back because I wanted to be there for my husband and I didn't think it was fair that he should lose both of us in the same day. And so I came back to the hard space of... Becky Harling (04:50.) Yeah, no kidding. Candy McVicar (04:57.296) grief, just having to navigate the deep dark place where you love and want and long for your baby, but they're not here to parent in this world. And I reached out for support to many different organizations because I was really just wanting to talk to others who've gone through this and I sadly did not get any replies from all these organizations I wrote to, nobody wrote back. And as I prayed and pondered that, Sarah Wildman (05:21.923) Hmm. Candy McVicar (05:24.148) I really felt the Lord saying, but that's because I'm going to have you start something. And which was really kind of, wow, okay, where do I start, where do I begin? And it became a little website, which would kind of be more like a blog today, but there weren't very many blogs back then. This was December 20th, 2001, that Grace was stillborn. And that's her name. And we didn't know her name until we delivered her. Like right before delivery, I just all of a sudden got her name. And... Becky Harling (05:28.479) Hmm. Candy McVicar (05:53.6) it was going to be a different name. And so at any rate, I started getting as many as 100 emails a day from people around the whole world writing to me saying, I resonate with your story and this is so impactful and what you're sharing, you say it in a way that my heart would say it if I could say it well. And so I started to connect with all these people around the world and little by little our foundation just grew. It grew to support groups, conferences, helping work with. families in the hospital when their baby dies and I would go and do photography and videography and help them plan their service and providing care packages to the hospital with items the parents would need to walk them through that difficult time. And here we are over 20 years, 21 years later having had Missing Grace and that's the name of our foundation. We miss her so it started off my little website was called Missing Grace. Becky Harling (06:46.919) Hmm. Candy McVicar (06:47.152) And it's interesting how that word has meant so much to me about God's grace in our situation. And it's also an acronym and it stands for Grieve, Restore, Arise, Commemorate, and Educate. Sarah Wildman (07:00.67) Wow. Thank you for sharing that story, Candy. You know, I think there's a phrase that God can use misery for ministry. And I don't mean that in a flippant way, but it's really beautiful to see how he's really used your pain to encourage others. So if you don't mind going back just a few steps when your loss with grace happened and you're reaching out, it's heartbreaking that no one got Candy McVicar (07:03.494) Yeah. Becky Harling (07:03.859) Hmm. Sarah Wildman (07:28.766) you needed to start grieving, you and your husband at that time. Becky Harling (07:33.356) Hmm. Candy McVicar (07:33.392) Yeah, you know, validation is key. And in our world, there's a lack of validation for life. And so people are afraid of the topic. They're uncomfortable with the topic. And those who've had it happen to them are afraid to go there because they didn't get supported and they don't know if they can comfortably and safely bring it up. Because what if it hurts that bad again? And so even people who've had it happen, many of them, it was like a big Sarah Wildman (07:35.939) Hmm. Becky Harling (07:37.308) Mm. Becky Harling (07:56.872) Hmm. Candy McVicar (08:02.26) secret to share. Like people would come and say, I had a loss too. And you know, like it was something to be embarrassed of. And until they felt safe knowing I would validate their loss, many people didn't feel comfortable to share. So validation is key. And in the church, they don't always do the best job at that. I'll just be honest. We were very, very involved in our church and it was easily dismissed as, you know, praise be to God, she's in heaven. Isn't that fantastic? Becky Harling (08:07.118) Mm. Becky Harling (08:22.719) Mm-hmm. Candy McVicar (08:30.976) And people would say, you couldn't believe the stuff we heard in the church. Well, God needed another angel. But I'm sorry, we are not angels. It's separate creations, you know, and I don't imagine her as a cherub on my shoulder all day long. And, and so, um, you know, there was a lot of confusing things people said too. And in the awkwardness of the subject, many people's silence was deafening. And, and it was, it was really. Becky Harling (08:31.361) Oh wow. Sarah Wildman (08:37.183) Yeah. Becky Harling (08:42.523) Yeah. Becky Harling (08:59.839) Hmm. Candy McVicar (09:01.6) So it's better to say something of a loving touch, something with a word of encouragement, of hope, just a validation to acknowledge the grief, acknowledge the significance of life, just even to say things like she matters and you guys matter to us. And she will always be missed and she is forever loved. And we're thankful for the hope of heaven, but I'm sure right now it's a long ways away. Sarah Wildman (09:19.382) That's right. Candy McVicar (09:31.412) And that's hard. And in the tension of the not yet, I will be praying for you. And so prayers meant the world to me because I could barely pray. I was so grieved. I mean, my prayers were the groans. God, I just want her. I miss her. I long for her. I'm sad. Everyone around me was pregnant. My sister-in-laws were pregnant. All my best friends and my maids of honors were pregnant. Becky Harling (09:37.371) Mm-hmm. Becky Harling (09:54.872) Mm. Candy McVicar (09:57.296) I got all the baby invitations and all the wonderful pictures and all the Christmas cards and we were no longer part of that group. We weren't there yet, you know? And so that's really hard. And even if you have living children, for people we counsel and work with, they will say, you know, it's hard because I've got to be present and joyful for my living children while in the place of grief still. And so they don't often get to really fully deal with their grief. It often gets put back on a back burner. Becky Harling (10:15.77) Mm-hmm. Candy McVicar (10:25.256) and until a later date. So, you know, just as individuals, as you come across this, if you can just listen, ask a few key questions and let them talk, and then validate their story and the significance of their child, you will be a trusted friend in this journey. Becky Harling (10:47.083) You know, Candy, one of the things that I love as I was thumbing through your book is that you deal with failed adoptions as well. And I think sometimes people try to think, well, maybe that, or they try to evaluate, you know, like maybe that's not as hard as a miscarriage or a stillborn. And yet I know people close to me who have had both. And for one woman, the failed adoption was the bigger horrific thing because she had felt so strongly that God had been in that. And so I love that you deal with that. And I think in this whole idea of lost babies, whether biological babies or failed adoptions or miscarriages or stillborn, whatever. There are some significant faith struggles, you know, because I think the thought process is, well, God loves me and why would he allow this? How did you work through your own faith struggles? Sarah Wildman (11:54.446) Bye. Candy McVicar (11:59.792) Well, we did have infertility for years, and we did have many adoptions that fell through, and they were devastating. Walking through to the finish line, almost getting that baby, loving and praying for that baby, going to the ultrasounds, praying for the birth mom, becoming her friend. These were really, really hard losses as well. And every time each month when you're not pregnant again and you're doing everything you know to do and it's not happening, it's devastating. People understand, you know, you go about your day and you're going to work and you're going to church and you're involved and you just feel like, does anyone see me or no? No, they don't, because you don't even know how to tell them. You don't know how to say all this stuff and you don't really wanna put that burden on people. And so, you know, of course we're supposed to lay our burdens at the cross, we're supposed to bring it to Jesus, Becky Harling (12:38.943) Hmm. Candy McVicar (12:51.132) If your theology is that he hurt you and he did this to you, how do you run to him? And I had this, what I would say, a very mature theology before losing my daughter, even though I was a Christian since age eight and I had been in the church my whole life and read my Bible, I still, interestingly enough, because of what I was taught, I really believe that Christians were Becky Harling (12:55.844) Mm-hmm. Candy McVicar (13:17.016) like me who love Jesus and serve Jesus and are devoted, we got this supernatural protection that I was in trouble with Abba Father and he would keep me safe and I would have no harm. And my faithfulness gave me access to total security. Like I had that kind of faith and that's not actually biblical. It says in this world you will have trials and tribulations. Becky Harling (13:24.415) Mm-hmm. Sarah Wildman (13:24.482) Hmm. Sarah Wildman (13:46.294) Hmm. Candy McVicar (13:47.052) And He doesn't promise us a life of nothing happening that's going to be hard and difficult. He doesn't promise us that. Yes, we are more than victorious through Christ Jesus, and there's victories in our battles and in our hardships, and He is a great Comforter, and He weeps with those who weep. And I believe often I started to realize sometimes He has to just let things play out. You know, everyone's sin. has a consequence and if you picture like a big lake and everyone has rocks and you were all throwing our rocks in this lake and all those ripples eventually start to hit each other and affect each other, right? In the same way, you know, other people's decisions affected my daughter's outcome. And you know that, and then I had to deal with that. I had to deal with forgiveness of medical professionals. I had to deal with forgiveness of myself for not doing a better job advocating for her, you know, to get the help that she needed. Becky Harling (14:33.774) Mm. Becky Harling (14:40.243) Hmm. Sarah Wildman (14:44.814) Mm-hmm. Candy McVicar (14:46.368) There was a lot of things I had to do, but because there was a time where I just felt like God stood on the sidelines like a ref who made a, he did it like everyone's going, did you not see the call that was bad? And he just stood there and let it happen. I was kind of picturing him like that at a time. And I was like, why didn't you intervene, Lord? You had the power to, you had the ability to step in and save your child. This is your beautiful, precious child who will be raised by loving Christian. Becky Harling (15:04.603) Mm-hmm. Candy McVicar (15:11.404) you know, parents who actually like each other and enjoy each other and we've been, we will have a thriving marriage for her, you know, and it still was allowed to happen. So I had to come to the end of me and still say, are you not yet God? Yes, you are. No matter what, you're still the creator. I'm still gonna go to heaven and have eternity with her. There's still recompense. And I started to realize God's taking an account. Sarah Wildman (15:17.804) Mm-hmm. Candy McVicar (15:40.256) He says, I saw it, trust me, I will remember that. And I'm taking an account of all the wrongs done that the enemy ever did against you. And there's recompense, he does have to pay, the enemy has to pay. And I just felt like God said, but she's secure with me and you're secure with me. And if you'll trust me, I will bring beauty for ashes out of this very sad situation. And so he's so faithful what has come out of Becky Harling (15:45.064) Mm. Becky Harling (15:58.298) Hmm... Becky Harling (16:05.523) Hmm. Candy McVicar (16:09.424) my walk with God to bless and help others and help people keep their marriages strong and help people not commit suicide and help people understand there's hope for a better day and help people get pregnant and have their babies and help just be a friend to people in a dark place to know that they're not alone. That is to me I'll recompense. That is all the beauty for ashes in the story. And so. Becky Harling (16:32.479) Mm. Candy McVicar (16:32.908) I wanna talk to that person who's listening, who's in a tough place in their faith right now, and you're wondering, God, how can you be letting these crazy things go on in the world? How could you let me lose my child, my baby? How could you let my marriage crumble like that? How could you let this terrible hard thing happen? And it's okay to say all those questions. I want you to have the conversations. Don't stop talking to him. Keep talking to him. Keep telling him how you feel. And keep pouring out your heart to him. Becky Harling (16:41.971) Yeah. Sarah Wildman (16:54.862) Mm. Becky Harling (16:55.166) Yeah. Candy McVicar (17:01.408) And in that sacred place of opening yourself up, I believe God will meet you there in a way you've never met him before. And if you would just then say, okay, God, I'll still yet trust you. I don't get it, I don't understand everything, but I'm gonna still trust that you're good. And I believe the goodness of God will woo you. I believe you will see that he is. Becky Harling (17:09.032) Hmm Sarah Wildman (17:21.794) Hmm. Candy McVicar (17:25.02) so gentle, so loving, and he really is a good father, a good friend, a good guide, a good comforter, a good teacher. And so my faith, I would say now, is so much more beautiful, so much more rich, so much stronger through all of that hardship. But I had to go through that tough place of really questioning and wrestling out my faith. And it's an important part of my testimony. And by the word of our testimony, we break the power of the enemy. So you're building a powerful testimony. Becky Harling (17:43.201) and Candy McVicar (17:54.628) that ends up breaking that power the enemy has on your life and on other people's lives as you use your story for good. Becky Harling (18:02.003) Mmm. Sarah Wildman (18:02.611) Wow. So the loss of a child is so catastrophic to your and could be really weakening to your marriage. You shared that. I mean, we know stats are not favorable when there's a loss of a child, right? In a couple staying together. So if you don't mind speaking to the marriage aspect of that a little bit, you know. our podcast, we really try to talk about connection with God, our spouse, our kids. But when you're swimming in your own grief, I can imagine that's a really easy time for you to lose connection with your spouse because they're in their own world. So any tips on how that connection can be stronger even in hard loss? Becky Harling (18:30.783) Mm-hmm. Candy McVicar (18:49.248) It's a really, really important question. I had what I thought was a fabulous marriage before this happened, and then we started grieving congruently and we were crying together and holding each other and we were on the same page, it seemed, and then time goes on and my husband's back at work and I'm home. Grieving, I couldn't do my job very well because I have my own company and I just didn't even have motivation. And I was starting to just feel resentful that he wasn't there for me, that he wasn't talking with me, that he wasn't saying the kinds of things I was saying about her. He didn't mention her name near enough. I felt like we were like on two different paths in this grief journey all of a sudden. And it started to bother me. So then as you're irritable with one another, you know. And I'm of course not the same person. I'm usually this bubbly, vivacious, friendly, outgoing person. Now I'm like in my pajamas and I'm sad, I'm depressed. I'm not who he married. You know, he's probably thinking too, like, gosh, what happened to my wife? You know? And so here we are, we're grieving differently, which is so normal. I just want to put that out there. It is so common to grieve differently than your spouse, but that doesn't mean they're the enemy. It doesn't mean that they're not for you. Becky Harling (19:53.501) Mm. Mm-hmm. Becky Harling (20:00.71) Ahem. Sarah Wildman (20:05.398) Right, right. Becky Harling (20:11.655) Mm. Candy McVicar (20:14.004) It doesn't mean that they are all of a sudden an uncaring person and you can no longer be together because you just aren't seeing it the same. And so I reached out to my online support group and I said, hey guys, I'm having some struggles in my marriage and we're just really rubbing each other raw. And I'm wondering what your tools have been, like what has helped all of you? Because these are all grieving moms, dads, and grandparents. I was so surprised to get back this whole list of email posts from responses from everyone that said, oh, the five love languages is really instrumental. It really helped us. I was like, oh, I hadn't read the book before. I didn't know about it. I went out and got the book. I took the test. My husband took the test. We started laughing because there's five love languages. What we learned is we tend to communicate a language that we... Sarah Wildman (20:51.868) Really? Candy McVicar (21:09.044) understand and that we want. And so we speak this language and I'll explain what those are. And they often don't receive that. It would be like talking Greek to somebody because they're like, that's not the way I receive love. And we're thinking we're very effective communicators with our love and why aren't they getting it? And they're wondering why we're not loving them well. So my top love language is acts of service. And my second runner up is quality time. My husband's Becky Harling (21:27.487) Mm-hmm. Candy McVicar (21:38.356) words of affirmation and his second is physical touch. And then the fifth one is gifts and receiving gifts. Now in all of this, everybody, right, right. Well, what Dr. Chapman shares is he says, you know what, all are good. We should be sprinkling all of them in. But you tend to kind of have your main one. Becky Harling (21:46.895) And gifts are good for everybody. Right. Can't go wrong with a gift. Sarah Wildman (21:50.874) Universal. Becky Harling (22:00.156) Yeah. Candy McVicar (22:06.388) And we all tend to, if we look, and it can change in your lifetime, you could say this one's become a forefront, but we all can have just kind of a primary and that's your go-to. Well, if I'm there, you know, loving my husband, cleaning the house, serving him with food, doing all these wonderful things, and all he wants to hear is, I'm so proud of you, honey. You know, I'm so thankful for you. Like all the cleaning and all the good things I did around the house didn't speak to him. Sarah Wildman (22:06.604) Mm-hmm. Candy McVicar (22:32.348) And he could say all day long to me, you're beautiful, you're amazing. I'm so proud of you. And I could care less. I really, that wasn't important to me. I did not need to hear those words from his mouth, but I really need you to help me clean the house and get everything ready and get the oil changed. Like I will, I will be so delighted and you will find me showing you great appreciation this evening, um, if you do all those things, you know. And so I just would, I would just like to say that it's comical, it's fun, you should have fun with it. You learn, you both take the test. There's a free quiz on the website for fivelovelanguages.com and it's on my site too. And anyway, so we did that and we started to say, let's at least try to apply this. Let's just see what that's like when we start to try to be cognizant of what we're doing and saying that might fill that person's love tank. And as we did that, it was highly effective. And we were like, whoa, this is really interesting how much he was word starved. I'm happy to affirm my children, but I thought adults, you know you're good. You know you're, I love you. Like, why do I gotta tell you that? It's just funny. Words did not have that kind of power for me because to me words were used to manipulate or control or to say things to, you know. And I was like, if you mean it, then you'd show me. you know what I mean? Kind of thing. Like I was like, show it with your actions, right? And he's like, words are powerful. And when I say this, I mean it with my whole heart. You know, he's handing me his heart when he's saying these precious things. So as I started to realize how much this meant to him and even physical touch, like I love my husband, I hug him all the time, but he wanted me to walk up and put my hand beside him when I stand next to him and rub my hand across him as I go through the kitchen or, you know, just. I didn't think about all the times he just needed a little extra touch, you know? And oh, that's so what ends up happening in relation to the grief journey, you're raw, you're hurting, everything hurts, words hurt, you know, people's lack of care, concern hurts. If you don't feel loved and you don't feel treasured and you don't feel safe, then you'll respond like that. You don't feel safe and you don't feel loved and you get you get harsh or rude or you know, Candy McVicar (24:46.04) you push people away or what have you. Well, this is like a buffer. It's like an oil that oils this machine of the marriage. It helps bring back some cushion. And it's not that it's the be all, end all and solve life world problems, but in a marriage, we need lots of tools. And this is an excellent tool. So it's one of those things you put in the toolbox. And if you just augment it and begin to implement it into your lives, you'll find it just helps you grieve better together. And that's the ball. Becky Harling (25:17.548) You know, listeners, I hope that you are really getting this because it's interesting because the quiz is actually in the book, Holding On to Love After You've Lost a Baby. You can go through the quiz in that book so that you understand how your spouse is going to feel. most love and how you're going to feel the most love. And then you can work together to have that happen. So Candy, beyond your spouse, sometimes there are other children in the family and they don't understand what's happening, you know, when maybe mom has lost a baby or there's been a failed adoption. And yet both parents are in this deep place of grief. How do we minister to those other kids in the family? Sarah Wildman (25:43.618) Hmm. Candy McVicar (26:06.116) Those precious children are also suffering. As parents, you're kind of in your own mind, your own world, you don't realize. I have many parents say, I feel terrible. I am not doing well as a mom or dad because I'm so distracted. I just wanna go in my room and cry and curl up in a ball and I've gotta get breakfast and get these kids to school. Becky Harling (26:09.521) Yeah. Candy McVicar (26:32.196) I'm just, you know, I'm not wanting to fall apart in front of them all the time and make them feel insecure, like what's wrong mommy? But the reality is, is they're feeling and watching and taking it all in. Okay, so by ignoring it with your children, that doesn't help them either because they are very aware. In fact, I love interviewing people who grew up in a home where there was a pregnancy or an infant loss or a child loss. Becky Harling (26:52.285) Mmm. Candy McVicar (27:01.636) and talking to them now and saying, you know, tell me about back then and how that's affected your life now. And it's interesting how many of them have gone through therapy or counseling because it wasn't dealt with well or when it was dealt with well, they're like, I saw my parents deal with this so well, I wanted to become a counselor. I wanted to become, you know, a doctor, a nurse. I wanted to become a pastor. I saw that they included us and we were part of it and we grieved together. Becky Harling (27:08.556) Mm-mm. Candy McVicar (27:30.892) and it was really beautiful. And so, you know, what you can do for these children is age appropriate, right? We need to do things based on the age and the book will walk you through some of that. But it's important, for example, as a little child that doesn't have the ability to express big emotions with words, right? They're lacking the fancy words that we can share about our emotions and feelings, but they are still feeling them, but they don't know how to put an expression to that. So... Drawing is very key, painting and doing things that allow them to express it in a different form. Working with them with equine therapy, working with them with sand tray is something fabulous, look into it. I work with many therapists who do sand tray therapy. Basically you have this beautiful tray of colored soft sand and you have all these little figurines and you go and you get to create a scene in your sandbox and play it out and you take pictures Becky Harling (28:19.723) Mm. Candy McVicar (28:28.416) and you resolve situations. But what's happening is the child is living vicariously through these figures and there's a big dragon. Well, what does that dragon represent to them? And there's a little bunny hiding behind the tree that's scared. And well, how can we help that bunny feel safe? And so you're working through things in a way that the child can comprehend what they're going through. And it's important, family therapy is great. Group therapy, doing things as a family just to build Becky Harling (28:43.292) Mm-hmm. Candy McVicar (28:56.568) you know, peace and trust and security. When you see your kid all of a sudden bedwetting or you see them getting in fights at school all of a sudden or their grades have all of a sudden plummeted or, you know, they're not wanting to eat or they're eating all the time or they're just zoning out on a TV and they don't wanna talk to anyone, closing themselves in their room like a teenager. You know, these are signs that they're not doing okay with what's going on. And it rattles their safety and security sense because for example, Becky Harling (29:20.072) Hmm. Candy McVicar (29:25.964) baby brother died, what if I'm next? What if mommy and daddy are next? What if all of us die? What if something terrible happens? And they need to be able to address those fears. And also sharing your tears, like to say, why are you sad mommy? You know I miss baby brother today, or I miss your sister. I just wish they were here. How do you feel about it today? I'm okay, or I miss them really badly too. Becky Harling (29:36.208) Mm. Candy McVicar (29:54.172) And like one thing that I recommend to families is to create something that everyone gets to participate in towards the grief and the healing. And one thing would be like an open picture journal that always sits on the coffee table. And everyone's allowed to write their feelings and thoughts for the day in there. And you can sometimes you'll go in there and open it and there's something in there that's like, I thought of you today when I saw a butterfly and it made me really miss you. You know, the rainbow today just was so beautiful and someone takes a picture and puts it in there and say, it made me smile and think of you. You know, today was hard, it was your birthday and you know, I just wish you were here. I would have loved to be with you today and whatever it would be, you know, but this is a way you can go back and look at something together and share something together about the loss and that special loved one in your life. And I'll say my kids, what's really cool is they never met their. Becky Harling (30:17.887) Hmm. Candy McVicar (30:46.596) their baby Grace. And I had a subsequent miscarriage too after my two children were born. I have an 18 year old, a 14 year old and I had baby Promise. We didn't know the gender. They miscarried at 15 weeks. And you know, neither of these siblings did they ever get to meet or hold, but they're very precious to them. They love them dearly. And they will say, you know, what are we doing for Grace's birthday? Becky Harling (31:09.875) Hmm. Candy McVicar (31:10.54) You know, they want to be involved in it. And in all their pictures, whenever they drew our family, they drew Grace in it. And then now, you know, when we talk about our family, they say, we're a family of four. And they tell in classes, you know, do you have other sibling? Yes, I have two in heaven. And they would get very upset with me. Like, I remember one time at a Home Depot, how many kids do you have? I said, I have two. And they're like, we have four. And I thought the Home Depot guys, like, where are they hiding the other children? Becky Harling (31:20.796) Mm. Becky Harling (31:25.247) Hmm. Becky Harling (31:32.328) Yeah. Sarah Wildman (31:32.436) Aww. Becky Harling (31:35.173) Ha! Candy McVicar (31:37.916) like oh gosh and they're like they're dead they're in heaven and I was like oh this is how children make it. Sarah Wildman (31:38.864) Aww, yeah. Ooh. Becky Harling (31:45.159) Yes, yes, yes! Sarah Wildman (31:46.678) little awkward. Candy McVicar (31:48.826) And he was like, okay, well, what happened here? I was like, I had a miscarriage and stillbirth. I didn't, it wasn't something weird, you know, whatever. But children are funny that way. They're very matter of fact. And they can say things just the way they are. And it's surprising and delightful to us as parents. Sarah Wildman (31:52.542) Yeah... Becky Harling (31:55.848) Yeah. Becky Harling (32:02.185) Yes. Becky Harling (32:08.399) Hey, Kandi, I am looking at the time and I realize we're out of time, but this has been so rich. And I have a feeling that some of our listeners would like to get in touch with you and to access other resources from you. So how can our listeners find you? Where can they get this amazing book, Holding On to Love After You've Lost a Baby, that you co-wrote with Dr. Gary Chapman? Candy McVicar (32:37.592) Yeah, I would love for you to reach out. Please do. You can reach me at missinggrace.org and also my personal website is candymcvicker.com. I'm sure it will be in the show notes and information, but would love to reach you there. And you can get the book at candymcvicker.com. It's on Amazon. It's on all the places online that you would search for a book and the Five Love Languages website as well. Becky Harling (32:49.575) Yes. Candy McVicar (33:03.64) We'd love to have you get that and share it. You know, a lot of people are telling me, I've bought a bunch of copies and anytime somebody has a loss, we're giving it to them, either mailing it to them with some other items, or we are handing it to them in person. It's a great tool and resource for pastors and ministry leaders and people who work in the care professions. There's a lot, you can take it chapter by chapter, just pull out the one that applies to you and what you're going through, and it really helps you what to say, what not to say, how to help, what doesn't help. These are all things that I think you'll find very helpful. Becky Harling (33:36.512) Hey, would you just pray for our listeners, Candy, as we close? Candy McVicar (33:40.808) I would be honored. Dear gracious Father, we just thank you for this time to come together and for this precious audience that's listening. Lord God, you will reach the people that need to be reached with this message and it will be shared with whom needs to receive it. And so Father, I lift up to you right now, all those who mourn, all those that have a spirit of grief upon them. Lord, everybody who has had empty arms at a point in their life, Sarah Wildman (34:02.082) Mm. Candy McVicar (34:09.588) and is missing their precious babies and children in heaven. Father, you are a gracious God and you are a comforter Holy Spirit. We just thank you that you go out and you are their comfort, that you walk them through, that you do not abandon them, that you are an ever present help in time of need. And Lord, we just trust that you're going to minister to each one of these moms, dads, grandparents, and siblings, Lord, that receive this message. And Father, we just thank you that you bring beauty for ashes and faith over fear, and you help us come through these things in a beautiful way and with hope. And we just declare hope right now over all of these beautiful women and people who are listening to this wonderful podcast. Bless this time in Jesus' name, amen. Becky Harling (34:57.159) Amen. Hey friends, thanks for joining us today on the Connected Mom podcast. And we hope you're going to join us again next week where we'll have another conversation helping you to connect more deeply with God. more empathically with your fellow moms and more intentionally with your child. And hey, if you liked today's episode, would you please share that with your friends? Because I guarantee there are others out there who need today's episode. Thanks for joining us. We'll catch you next time.