Latest / The Diary of a CFO / Sheryl Shaw on Scaling Finance Teams and Embracing Technology

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Sheryl Shaw on Scaling Finance Teams and Embracing Technology · The Diary of a CFO

• 0:04
  Welcome back to the Diary of a CFO podcast. The
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  podcast where finance leaders share the lessons,
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  challenges, and wins that shape their careers
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  as well as their organizations. Today's episode
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  is brought to you by FISPAN. By embedding
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  banking services directly into ERP and accounting
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  software, FISPAN streamlines financial workflows,
• 0:23
  reduces costs, and minimizes manual errors, and
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  hence, of course, efficiency. or business of
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  all sizes. I'm your host, Wassia Kamon, and
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  today I'm super delighted to have with me Sheryl
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  Shaw. She is a senior manager at Bridgepoint
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  Next Week Practice, utilizing over 30 years of
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  experience in global accounting, due diligence,
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  transfer pricing, and global treasury. She works
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  with clients who implement and optimize NetSuite.
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  Now, she completed her first successful implementation
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  of NetSuite in 2014 and has been a regular user
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  of the software ever since. Throughout the course
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  of her career, she has put a hefty focus on building
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  best practices. And prior to joining Bridgepoint,
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  she was a CFO for CPG and services companies
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  in Austin and a senior director for large watch
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  manufacturer in Dallas, Texas. Welcome to the
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  show, Sheryl. Hi, welcome. Thank you very much.
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  I'm excited to be here. Yes, I definitely wanted
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  us to start with your amazing career journey
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  and understanding what drew you to finance and
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  accounting in the first place. Thanks for asking
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  that. That was kind of an interesting role. I
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  actually was going to school to be a doctor and
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  I was putting myself through school. So I was
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  working for a company and started doing some
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  things from them from the accounting department
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  just to get myself through school. So I technically
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  started my accounting career in 1982 as an accounting
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  clerk. So I have seen and done everything and
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  quickly fell in love with accounting and switched
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  my degree to accounting. Wow. And then from that
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  point, did you foresee yourself joining and becoming
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  a CFO one day? It was always a dream. And I'll
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  be honest, starting out as a clerk, I just looked
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  for the next step, always. Like always looking
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  for, you know, okay, I want to be a senior accountant.
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  I want to be accounting manager. Back in the
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  80s, a woman as a CFO was highly unlikely. So
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  it was a dream. but maybe a little bit of a fantasy.
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  Wow. And how did you land that first CFO role?
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  Like what do you think are some of the things
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  that helped you in the process? I think it was
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  a combination of things. I was blessed with some
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  really great mentors from a management standpoint.
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  So over my career, I was able to build some really
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  great teams and have some people around me. So
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  I learned how to really manage people, but also
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  in those roles, those people allowed me to do
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  things that had never been done. And so they
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  would put me in situations where it's like, example,
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  I think you mentioned, you know, that I worked
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  in treasury was putting together a treasury group.
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  The company did not have a treasury function.
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  And they said, we would like you just to figure
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  that out or to figure out how to whatever it
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  was, they asked me to figure it out. And I think
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  those things when it got to the point where I
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  could step into a role where it was Always roles
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  where they needed help. I'm not the person To
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  fill a role just to sit in a seat. I definitely
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  need some chaos around me I love it. I need some
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  chaos around me now I would like to go back to
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  when you said you had to start a treasury group
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  from from scratch right because treasury something
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  We don't really learn in school of accounting,
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  right? You either do accounting or you do finance.
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  Treasury is somewhere in the midst. So can you
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  please share a little bit more about that? Yeah,
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  that's interesting. So, you know, I was trying
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  to think back. And if you look back just in general
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  in banking and treasury in the 80s and even the
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  90s, all you had were checks. You wrote checks,
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  you know, sometimes you could do wires or ACHs,
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  you know, actually very rarely. But then as times
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  progressed in the 90s, they kind of got online
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  banking. And that was really when people started
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  building, thinking about treasury groups, right?
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  I was working in Dallas at the time. We had a
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  lot of excess cash. We were very profitable.
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  And so we needed a way to invest money, but also
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  to move our funds around globally. And so working
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  closely with a large bank there in Dallas, we
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  started trying things and we helped them build
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  their international piece of their business,
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  as well as building and learning it for ours.
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  And it was just being patient, asking a lot of
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  questions. telling them that I don't know. I
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  don't know what this means or can you help me
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  through this? And then being patient in return
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  that we were able to build the treasury function.
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  And then you look at banking today, we've gone
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  from literally writing and mailing checks to
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  no checks. I mean, everything's electronic banking.
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  And then you have a company like Fispan who works
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  really nicely in NetSuite. And you can push and
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  pull transactions all in your ERP. Like, it's
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  an entirely different world. So, back in the
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  beginning, you learned the basics, and now we're
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  like in, you know, kind of like the space age.
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  And how do you bring people along with you with
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  those new technology? Because when you said I
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  was an accountant in the 1980s, I'm like, Excel
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  was not... Really around and so now we're talking
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  AI, but I'm assuming human nature is still the
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  same, right? So what would you say are your go
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  -to moves or strategy when you're trying to bring
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  people on board with adopting something? There's
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  a couple things when I pick team members So one
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  of the things that anybody that's been on my
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  team They'll say that I have repeated over and
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  over if I ask you a question as to you know Why
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  you're doing this or how you're doing it? If
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  your response is, that's the way we've done it,
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  I will lose my mind. So, and the other thing
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  is, I truly believe no matter what it is, if
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  you've been doing the same thing for, I would
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  say 18 months to two years, then you're doing
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  it wrong. Because there's always something you
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  can do different and better, whether that's getting
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  some sort of enhancement. In today's world, there's
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  so many software opportunities or just rethinking,
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  you know, bringing somebody in like us that can
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  look at it from a different side of eyes and
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  saying, Hey, listen, you know, why don't you
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  try this and moving it forward? So team members,
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  people around you, you've really got to have
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  the right mindset. If they're just wanting to
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  do their job, then they belong in a different
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  group. They don't belong in the innovative area.
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  Okay. So for you, you said, okay, I'm going to
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  bring, I'm going to bring change and you pick
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  the right team member. Well, what if you come
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  in and you just inherited the team? Like how
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  do you bring those people on board? That's a
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  tough one. Sometimes patience. Okay. Patience
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  and taking the time to put them under your wing,
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  finding those individuals that are excited about
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  learning. I have a there's a favorite saying
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  that I love to share and it was was actually
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  said by Eric and I hope I get his last name right
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  Shinsiski the chief of staff then he says if
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  you don't like change You're really gonna dislike
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  of relevance even more. Oh If you don't like
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  change you're going to dislike your relevance
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  even more Because you have to change right? spending
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  time with those individuals, showing them, because
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  a lot of times people don't want to change because
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  they're fearful. They think that if they do something
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  better and they're not doing it tomorrow, then
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  you're going to eliminate their position. You
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  have to get their confidence that doing more
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  things and new things is going to actually give
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  them an opportunity to expand. And so having
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  that trust with your team members and showing
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  them that, look, I'm even going to do it. I'm
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  going to give you some of my things. I'm going
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  to show you how to do some of my things. And
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  I'm not afraid that they're going to let me go.
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  They're going to give me more things. And so
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  that's what I want to do. So let's learn together.
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  What can you show me that we could do better
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  and faster and more efficient? Wow. And you are
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  a CFO and you mentioned, because you've been
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  a CFO like three times, right? I really want
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  to dive into each role and understanding one.
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  Do you feel like from your first CFO to the to
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  the third one, was it easier as you went from
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  CFO to CFO role? Was it just as challenging?
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  Do you think that the CFO role is extra challenging
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  when you're a woman? Because, you know, when
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  you became a CFO, there was not a lot of women
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  CFOs. Yeah, I would say Probably yes. In my case,
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  I was a little bit lucky in that the men that
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  were around me were very supportive. They just
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  saw me as one of them. Now that hasn't been the
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  case always. So, I mean, but that was so that
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  that gave me the confidence that I needed to
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  learn. I did trip and fall many times, you know,
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  and learn from those experiences. But it also
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  as my career progressed and maybe became in some
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  difficult situations. I had the confidence to
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  stand up for what I believed in and understand
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  that it wasn't about me. It was about the situation,
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  you know. And so each one, I learned something
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  different. Each one had its own challenges and
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  its own successes. And I wouldn't trade any of
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  them, even though the second the places that
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  it was difficult, I wouldn't trade them, because
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  it made it, made me who I am. Wow. And what would
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  you say are some of the things, because we see
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  the CFO world evolving, and again, love talking
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  to someone like you with so much experience.
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  What have you seen as being very important to
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  still be successful, regardless of how the CFO
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  world is evolving? Because sometimes... At some
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  point, you know, CFO was accountant and you went
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  the controller path to CFO. Now you have CFO
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  from different backgrounds and now CFOs are into
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  IT and HR and so many other things. What have
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  you seen that was striking in that evolution
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  and what do you think is still relevant to be
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  successful in the role? There are really two
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  unique CFOs. So there's the CFO that's operational
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  and running a business. And then there's the
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  CFO that's really working to help funding. It's
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  in the beginning. Those are two different types
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  of CFOs. And that's the first thing to understand
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  is like, make sure you know what role you're
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  going into, because I don't think that they can
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  cross streams. They are two different skill sets
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  entirely. I'm the operational kind. Like that's
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  my, you know, running a business, making sure
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  that those things that were profitable, you know,
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  that's really my wheelhouse, running teams, working
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  with the operations side. The other side of the
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  house, I don't have experience in that area.
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  I dabbled in it and realized that was not where
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  I belonged. So from my experience, one of the
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  things that I think is extremely important. And
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  I think that you kind of touched on it there
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  is that you need a combination of accounting
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  and finance. And so a lot of times people come
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  in as in the operational sense from their finance
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  background. And I think that that does a little
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  bit of a disservice to the operational side.
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  I think you have to have both pieces. You need
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  to understand the analytics behind the numbers.
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  So I've had people do analysis for me, right?
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  And their response would be, let's use consulting
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  as an example. Their response would be like,
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  you know, increased sales due to more billing
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  hours. Okay, well, that's logical. But why are
• 13:46
  there more billing hours? Like dive into the
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  accounting side of it. Show me, is it a customer?
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  So it is that combination of accounting and analytics
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  that's needed. Let's take a quick break to talk
• 14:02
  about today's sponsor, Fispen. Fispen is a leading
• 14:06
  fintech company that seamlessly integrates banks
• 14:09
  into the client's ERP and accounting systems.
• 14:13
  By embedding banking services directly into ERP
• 14:16
  and accounting software, FISPEN streamlines financial
• 14:20
  workflows, reduces costs, minimizes manual errors,
• 14:24
  and enhances efficiency for businesses of all
• 14:27
  size. For more information, head to www .fispen
• 14:32
  .com, www .f -i -s -p -a -n .com. Now let's get
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  back to the episode. And so what would you say
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  are the key skill set of those two different
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  types of CFOs, right? You mentioned the operational,
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  you ran the business, and I think you kind of
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  said it's accounting and finance, but what are
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  really the skill set of that operational CFOs
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  versus the other one that's more into fundraising
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  investments and things like that? So on the operational
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  side, definitely you need to be a good manager.
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  You have to be able to work. with all the groups,
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  operations, marketing. You have to be a people
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  person because you have to be able to step in
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  a room and put on whatever face is needed, whatever
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  mantra is needed for that room so that you can
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  talk to them at their level. Again, gaining trust,
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  making sure that they want to come to you as
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  a trusted advisor. And that's from both years
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  of working in the accounting, so closing the
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  books, being a controller, but also knowing how
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  to manage a budget, provide analysis and or good
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  answers to the CEO, being able to talk to your
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  CEO so they can understand it. Not all CEOs are
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  finance people. Find a way to Really be able
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  to communicate to them at their level in all
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  the areas and then on the other type of CFOs
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  What do you think are the main skill set there?
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  Yeah, those people are much more outward -facing
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  they have skills and economics and Working with
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  investors. It's it's a sales ish job like investment
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  banking background absolutely, so They're selling
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  a story, they're good spin doctors, they're highly
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  skilled individuals in what they do. But that
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  same personality is not going to be able to step
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  into an area where you're really trying to gain
• 16:53
  trust with a team, because those are two different
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  skills. Yes. And they probably have to rely more
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  on the chief accounting officer, for example,
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  to be that operational person, right? Because
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  you still need the right financials. Exactly.
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  Exactly. So I can see how you being in more of
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  an operational CFO was probably easier to transition
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  into where you are now as a consultant because
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  you probably learned What life is really internally?
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  So what was the transition like for you? And
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  how are you able to bring what you what you've
• 17:30
  dealt with really as a cfo to where you are now?
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  It was I would say probably the the last Four
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  or five years of of before I you know went into
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  consulting I had been thinking about it because
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  in my mind i'm i'm I have always picked a company
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  that needs help like If once, and that's, you
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  know, like my very first CFO role, once we kind
• 17:55
  of got everything sorted, we sold the company
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  and they offered me to stay there, but then I
• 18:02
  would have had, there was nothing for me to do
• 18:04
  except for - No chaos. Right, exactly. So giving
• 18:08
  that, I thought, well, it would be nice to be
• 18:11
  able to kind of pitter patter in multiple chaoses.
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  right? In the consulting, because that's all
• 18:17
  it is. I mean, they're only coming to us because
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  they have a problem. I've always had that in
• 18:22
  the back of my mind, but I was also fearful that
• 18:25
  I wouldn't be good at it, like that I needed
• 18:29
  that team. I would be an individual, but I really
• 18:32
  wanted to, I like the team atmosphere. When I
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  first, my very first role, Thankfully, because
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  again, I was working a lot of hours before consulting.
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  So that was the other thing, right? pacing yourself
• 18:46
  down to like a somewhat normal job. Well, my
• 18:50
  very first role was very chaotic. And so it was
• 18:54
  a good feeder into consulting as it, you know,
• 18:59
  wind down, another opportunity came up. So I
• 19:03
  was like, Oh, okay, I see how this works. This
• 19:06
  is good. The best part of consulting has been
• 19:12
  being able to help whoever it is that we're working
• 19:16
  with. We all like to be patted on the back or
• 19:20
  said that you've done a good job. I mean, for
• 19:22
  me, that's the end -all. You don't have to pay
• 19:26
  me a gazillion dollars. Just tell me that I did
• 19:28
  something to help you. In consulting, every time
• 19:32
  you leave or you're in there, they love you.
• 19:35
  because you're fixing something for them. So
• 19:38
  it's very gratifying and I really fell in love
• 19:42
  with it. Nice. And I'm not glad you, the kind
• 19:46
  of consultant people are happy about when you
• 19:48
  leave, because there's a big difference there
• 19:49
  too. It means you're good. That's true. It means
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  you're good. So now that you're leading, you
• 19:57
  know, finance transformation, really, like you
• 19:59
  step into chaos and... you're helping people
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  do the right thing and get out of the chaos.
• 20:05
  What are some questions you wish leaders will
• 20:07
  ask before starting such an initiative? Because
• 20:12
  there is chaos, there's a lot of noise. Like
• 20:14
  what are some of the things that can help them
• 20:16
  have clarity so that the process is done the
• 20:19
  right way? I would say, first of all, make sure
• 20:23
  that you're really ready for the change. So they
• 20:28
  think a lot of times they you know, they're like,
• 20:30
  oh we know that you know This isn't working right
• 20:34
  and we need somebody to come in but then you
• 20:37
  know when you start Talking about the things
• 20:40
  that need to be done. They're like, oh, I mean
• 20:43
  we can't do that I mean that's that's gonna disrupt
• 20:46
  operations. It's like well, sometimes it starts
• 20:49
  in operations Oh, we can't cross that streams.
• 20:53
  Well does operations know that you're working
• 20:56
  on this project Oh, no. So it's like making sure
• 21:00
  that whoever, whatever it is, the project that
• 21:03
  you're working on, that you've already got together
• 21:06
  with the team, whether that's finance, accounting,
• 21:10
  operations, whoever, make the CEO, whoever it
• 21:15
  is, make sure that everybody's on board. And
• 21:19
  in the very beginning, everybody starts on the
• 21:23
  same page. You don't do it in silos working as
• 21:27
  a team is key because everybody has buy -in once
• 21:30
  they know That accounting is working with with
• 21:33
  the operation side or accounting is working with
• 21:36
  the ceo Then everybody's on board and then that
• 21:40
  makes it easier to step in and make change so
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  when you say Make sure your team is ready for
• 21:48
  change. Like what are some questions or things
• 21:50
  that? Can help a leader do it because like you
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  said I and I totally agree on the surface It
• 21:56
  sounds like we all ready for change like me.
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  I'm always ready for a diet Like you think i'm
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  going to change eating cheetos, but i'm really
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  not Probably the same Fewer maybe I don't know
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  Exactly, but how are you able to really gauge
• 22:11
  that readiness for change? Sometimes we don't
• 22:15
  know until we get in there Sometimes it's deceiving.
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  They say that they are I will be honest, the
• 22:23
  majority of the people who are coming to us and
• 22:26
  asking for our help, they will tell us upfront.
• 22:32
  So this group is going to be difficult. If those
• 22:37
  kinds of comments come out in the beginning,
• 22:40
  then you know you're in a good place because
• 22:43
  they've self -assessed. They've looked at themselves
• 22:46
  and they know where the issues are and what needs
• 22:49
  to happen. So that gives us a comfort. We can
• 22:53
  delicately step into those. The people that come
• 22:55
  in and they're like, they wanna do all these
• 22:58
  things. And then the first call that you get
• 23:01
  on, you start talking through it. And they're
• 23:03
  like, oh, no, we don't need to look at that.
• 23:06
  No, we don't need to go there. That's when you
• 23:09
  know you're in a little bit of a hurt. So typically,
• 23:14
  we, BridgePoint, we do what we call first discovery
• 23:19
  calls. So we try our best to ask questions about
• 23:24
  the team, the atmosphere, we call them pain points,
• 23:28
  their pain points, what it is that they're feeling,
• 23:33
  what their expectation is. We are taught actually
• 23:37
  to go for the no. So when we're talking to a
• 23:41
  client, we really want them to really want us.
• 23:46
  We want to work with somebody that wants to work
• 23:48
  with us. And it's okay if they don't want to,
• 23:52
  or it's okay if we don't want to take that client.
• 23:56
  Because it won't work if only one of us is doing
• 23:59
  the job. We have to work together. So we are
• 24:03
  taught to go for the know. So we ask those questions
• 24:07
  upfront to try to go for the know. Sometimes
• 24:10
  we're surprised in the middle of the project,
• 24:14
  but not all the time. What you just said, it's
• 24:17
  so valid to from the inside, right? Like having
• 24:20
  those conversations internally to make sure we
• 24:24
  are on the same page before starting the rollout.
• 24:28
  Absolutely. What could be like a recent rollout
• 24:30
  you just did and you're very proud of or really
• 24:33
  made the difference and what was the process
• 24:35
  like? Let's see. We've done a couple. Again,
• 24:39
  it's the people that we are working with that
• 24:43
  allow us to kind of become part of their family,
• 24:47
  really embed ourselves in their team. I've said
• 24:52
  it multiple times now, the trusted advisor, the
• 24:55
  being trusted. That's really the key is when
• 24:59
  they start coming to you as, you know, we need
• 25:02
  your advice, that's when you know that you're
• 25:05
  locked and loaded. Then, you know, you can take
• 25:08
  baby steps to getting them where they need to
• 25:11
  be. We helped a client here in Austin go from
• 25:16
  their QuickBooks to NetSuite. They are a manufacturer
• 25:21
  of some food products that get sold at a local
• 25:24
  store here. They're a small team. The people
• 25:28
  in charge were very leery about letting other
• 25:31
  people in and helping. They kind of knew what
• 25:33
  they were doing. As our consultant was able to
• 25:37
  get in there and really make them feel comfortable.
• 25:40
  they would call her on a regular basis and just
• 25:44
  ask her. Like after we kind of got through everything
• 25:47
  and got them working, they would just pick up
• 25:49
  the phone and say, hey, listen, what do you suggest
• 25:52
  we do here? And like, can you help us out? That's
• 25:55
  when we know that we've really done what we need
• 25:58
  to do. And they've become somebody that we can
• 26:01
  rely on for future opportunities, you know, advice.
• 26:06
  So yeah, they're in a much better place and we
• 26:09
  feel like we have a new friend. Oh, that is so
• 26:12
  cool. And I love how you said trusted advisor,
• 26:15
  right? Because even within a company, you have
• 26:19
  to be a trusted advisor. Now I feel in finance,
• 26:21
  especially with how AI is going, how people,
• 26:24
  what people expect from people within a finance
• 26:27
  and accounting function. So what would you say
• 26:29
  are some of the things that whether you are inside
• 26:32
  or outside an organization will help you be a
• 26:34
  better trusted advisor? I definitely think stopping
• 26:39
  and listening. really paying attention, being
• 26:43
  honest with your responses, even in the tough
• 26:48
  situations, letting them know sometimes they
• 26:53
  know they have dirty laundry. You don't want
• 26:55
  to just point it out, but you need to not just
• 26:59
  leave it in the room. We need to address that,
• 27:01
  right? It's the timing of those things. And when
• 27:05
  they're ready to hear that, you kind of know
• 27:08
  then you're in a good place. It really is listening
• 27:13
  and it's listening with your eyes and your ears.
• 27:16
  So I will say a blessing beyond blessing is getting
• 27:22
  to work from home and doing a lot of our communication
• 27:27
  on video because you can see people's expressions.
• 27:32
  You can tell when they're because you can see
• 27:35
  everybody, right? And so you can tell when they're
• 27:40
  paying attention, when they're bored with what
• 27:43
  you're talking about, when they're interested,
• 27:46
  when they're offended, whatever. So it's pretty
• 27:51
  nice because you can really pay attention to
• 27:54
  body language and use that to your advantage
• 27:57
  because that's where you're going to step in
• 27:59
  and really get their trust is understanding what
• 28:03
  their true needs are. That takes courage, right?
• 28:07
  Because when you said being honest and transparent,
• 28:10
  even in the tough times, what helped you or helped
• 28:15
  you in the past do that? There is a part of you
• 28:18
  want to be liked, you want to be a trusted advisor.
• 28:21
  How do you balance those two and rely? Because
• 28:23
  it is very hard to do. Yeah. I think that that
• 28:28
  was something I learned over time. And I think
• 28:32
  it was really something that I was looking for,
• 28:36
  I would tell my team always, here's the thing,
• 28:41
  tell me the truth. No matter how hard it is,
• 28:44
  I need to know what is really going on, because
• 28:49
  I can deal with that much easier than if I find
• 28:54
  out that something's going wrong, you've known
• 28:59
  about it, and you haven't brought it to my attention.
• 29:03
  That is going to make me extremely unhappy, but
• 29:08
  if you bring me those tough conversations, I
• 29:12
  promise I will listen. And I think I was like,
• 29:16
  okay, it took me many times, but it was like,
• 29:20
  well, if I feel that way, I wonder if other people
• 29:25
  also feel that way. As a consultant, isn't that
• 29:29
  our job? We're supposed to... provide advice,
• 29:33
  I'll be honest, not everybody wants to hear that.
• 29:37
  Right. And so you kind of have to know when you
• 29:40
  can say it and when you can't. Sometimes you
• 29:42
  just have to step back and, and, and let sleeping
• 29:45
  dogs lie. But those people that are really going
• 29:48
  to be successful are the ones that can hear the
• 29:51
  hard truth. Well, thank you so much. I have two
• 29:53
  more questions for you. This was so helpful.
• 29:56
  One, what is the advice you find yourself giving
• 29:59
  other people over and over again? Be authentic.
• 30:03
  Be honest with yourself and in everything you
• 30:07
  do. As an accountant, in the things that we see
• 30:11
  that we're involved in, don't tread lightly on
• 30:16
  doing something that crosses the line. Stay true
• 30:21
  to yourself. Be honest. Love it. And my last
• 30:24
  question, what is your favorite thing to do outside
• 30:27
  of work? Outside of work. So I am quite the beach
• 30:32
  bum. So I love hanging by the pool or going to
• 30:36
  the beach, but I also love gardening. And I'm
• 30:40
  not a vegetable gardener. I am a flower gardener.
• 30:47
  So I like taking care of the yard, enjoying the
• 30:51
  outdoors. Those are the two things. Oh good for
• 30:55
  you. Good for you I'm a gardener, but the food
• 30:57
  ones and the deers ate everything but that's
• 31:00
  a different topic It hurts when you're growing
• 31:07
  food and it's gone or they give that bite into
• 31:11
  something and You know, yeah, then they leave
• 31:13
  the rest. Yes Oh gosh, well Thank you. Thank
• 31:18
  you so much for being on the show. This was super
• 31:21
  helpful. I loved how you give feedback. I really
• 31:24
  love how you lay it out and you can tell it's
• 31:26
  coming from such great experience. So thank you
• 31:30
  so much for being on the show and sharing this
• 31:32
  great chance. Thank you too for inviting me.
• 31:34
  It's been wonderful. And that's it for today's
• 31:38
  episode of the Diary of a CFO. Thank you so much
• 31:41
  for tuning in. If you enjoyed the show, don't
• 31:43
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• 31:46
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• 31:57
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• 32:00
  you can apply to be a guest on the podcast and
• 32:03
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• 32:05
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• 32:08
  like me to cover in the future, just email me
• 32:11
  at ask at the diary of a CFO .com. Again, the
• 32:15
  email is ask at the diary of a CFO .com. See
• 32:18
  you soon.