Latest / The Salty Pastor / Joy: Emotion or Lifestyle? [Ep 115]
Transcript
- [00:00:00] Doug: But your joy isn't stolen. Cause you're not sick in your soul. You [00:00:04] Jesse: need that musical theater dumping, chemical. The one that gets everybody up and dancing at a, at a moment's notice, that's the thing that they need to be dumping into the water. [00:00:13] Doug: So they get to Everett, but see that that's and that's what we're talking about between upstream and downstream, you know, [00:00:28] Jesse: Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to the Salty Pastor Podcast, a podcast dedicated to helping you, think for yourself and deepen your beliefs. We are here to open up your worldview, challenge your way of thinking and teach you to think critically for yourself, so that as you dive deeper into your faith and into the, what you believe, you understand it, and you can defend it. You can articulate it with confidence. As you go out into the world looking to share the gospel of Jesus Christ with other people. My name is Jesse Mayer. I will be your host for the podcast and we can't do the salty pastor podcast without the Salty Pastor himself. Dr. Douglas Peake [00:01:07] Doug: well greetings everyone. And I just wanted to reiterate what Jesse was saying. And that is, is that, uh, being in the full-time ministry for almost 35 years? Uh, I've, I've learned, uh, not through just the process of education, but primarily through the school of hard knocks, what really helps people and what really helps people, what really changes their life. What really makes a difference in what type of life they live is their faith and what makes your faith strong .And what makes your faith strong, isn't getting everything you want. And it's not being told what to think or what to believe a strong faith comes, when you wrestle with the questions, you take time to think deeply about things, you think deeply about who you are, what makes you tick, who God is and what he's chosen to do in your life. And so that's why we always say that this older pastor, uh, podcast and in the preaching of foothills Christian Church is not designed to. Give people a construct on how to think it's designed to help them develop critical thinking skills so that they strengthen their faith. And so, so many churches are like gyms, where you go in and the trainer does the work for you. And you sit there and watch. And you go, oh, I feel better. You know that my trainer lifted all this weight, but that doesn't do you any good. You have to go to the gym and you have to pick up the weights and you have to use them. So that's what we do. That's what we're called to. And we hope that this podcast helps you do that. [00:02:37] Jesse: So we are in the middle of a series, our summer series titled get up and go. Um, it's designed to help you. Get your faith moving and growing and activated after so much quarantine and downtime. We just, uh, wanted to really encourage people to get up and go. And so we're looking directly at the principles in the Bible that caused us to grow in any circumstance. Um, so we've talked about a whole lot of different topics over the course of this series. So tell me to pastor Doug, what is on the docket for today? [00:03:07] Doug: Well, it's Joy. Joy. Yes, we need some more joy out there and you do too joyous, critical for you to get your faith moving. It seems with everything that's happening over the last year and the ongoing challenges before us, we're lacking joy. And when you lack joy, you lack motivation. You lack inspiration, you lack, uh, your effort falls off, you know, and it's easy to slide into. You know, status quo or even a depression, the mood of the country right now cannot be construed as joyful at all. It's very toxic and polarized the mood of families out there. And what they're having to deal with is one of stress. It's not one of joy. They're just trying to survive. Change. That's constantly thrown at them. I even see it in marriages. I see it in individuals right now. There isn't a lot of joy going on right now. And I'd like to change that. [00:04:02] Jesse: I mean, it's just permeating everything. I was listening to a podcast on my way to work today and they were doing ads for what is it called? Micro. It's like a micro hair plants. No, no, no, no. It's like, uh, THC, like micro, uh, hits basically. Like you just have these little bottles and you just pour a little bit into your coffee and it just gives you a little boost and it's like, people are so. Burn out on life that they're like here, we're just going to distill my goodness still, you know, [00:04:33] Doug: The marijuana [00:04:37] Jesse: Oh, it's a micro doping is what it's called. [00:04:39] Doug: Micro doping I love that. Oh goodness. [00:04:42] Jesse: Be dope. Yeah. And so it's like, you're seeing this just in people's lives on a daily basis of. They can't find something to be joyful about because the country or where they're at in their spiritual walk or whatever, um, lack of faith, it could be anything, but they're just, there's so much. Depression and anger and you watch the news and it just pulls you even further down. And so it's like, it just doesn't seem like it's ever going to end on, on some days. And so I get it. I get why people are having such a lack of joy. And I mean, we all want joy. We want to, you know, I like feeling joy, like feeling good, happy. I want to feel blessed. And it feels so much better than being depressed or anxious or, or sad. Um, But I kind of always assumed joy was just sort of a by-product of, you know, oh, I went to a wedding, so I had joy or like, like there was some instigating event, basically, that kind of joy was a by-product of, um, but I, I I'm, I'm getting the sense that maybe there's some I've learned if I've learned anything during the get up and go series. That's okay. Most of the things I think are not entirely accurate. Oh, I need a little bit of clarification. So [00:05:54] Doug: Proverbs 13, Proverbs 15 chapter 15 verse 30 says light in a Messenger's eyes brings joy to the heart and good news gives health to the bones. So as a messenger, I want to have a light in my eyes that bring the joy of Jesus Christ into your life. [00:06:15] Jesse: So. You know, we've been talking about a lot of really intense topics. Yeah. Go series the, well, just the whole last year. I mean, he just in the holy last year, if it's not Corona virus, it's something else, right? [00:06:28] Doug: Yeah. The philosophical winds of this world are really oppressive. [00:06:31] Jesse: Yeah. And it's just, it's there's yeah. It's pretty bad. And so the, the topics just across the board have been so hard, so. It seems like we're starting to look for some hope in things though. I mean, even some of the things we talked about, you know, you talked about repentance, it wasn't a, I want you to go fill out and go out and feel bad and guilty about the things you're doing. You talked about there's hope on the other side of repentance. What are you turn towards? Yeah. So talk to me about kind of this hope where's, where can we find hope? That might lead to joy these days. [00:07:06] Doug: Well, this Tuesday is a Bible study. And so let's look at some of the scriptures and, uh, Romans, which is a book of doctrine. You know, it's just, it's basically kind of, you know, just a real strong, you know, these are the logical foundational stones of Christianity that he goes through. So, but in Romans chapter 12, verse 12, he says, be joyful in hope. Patient in affliction and faithful in prayer. So he says that your joy comes in your hope. In Romans 14, verse 17, he says for the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the holy spirit, because anyone who serves Jesus in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approves. And then in chapter 15, Paul writes may the God of hope, fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him. So as we trust in God, we open ourselves to be filled with all joy and peace, and he goes that way you may overflow with the hope. By the power of the holy spirit. [00:08:24] Jesse: So what I find interesting about these verses you brought up is similar to what my assumption was. When you said, I want to talk about joy. Um, it talks a lot about finding joy in the holy spirit, in your righteousness, in this, in this piece that your faith brings you. Um, and. You know, kind of contradicts what the, what my initial impression or what I would say most people's initial impression of where joy comes from, which is, you know, from something physical from they, they bring up like eating or drinking, um, you know, an event, something like that. But as is said, multiple times throughout the Bible, the things of this world are fleeting. So the joy we get through those things I would assume is also. Fleeting. Yeah. Um, so it, it kind of shifts from a psychological high, you get from something to something spiritual, and that's where real joy comes from. Not just this, this faint glimpse, this micro dosing, Micro dosing of a. Of a joy versus what true joy could be. [00:09:27] Doug: Right. Well, yeah, Christianity's all about what's happening in your soul. It's not about, you know, um, like he says in verse 17, it's not about eating and drinking. Yeah. You've said it's not about the outward stuff. [00:09:39] Jesse: Well, and you've said multiple times, Christianity is one of the, you know, it's the only. Yeah, religion that doesn't give you like a dietary code or a dress code or music codes, or you're not allowed to drink soda or, I mean, whatever, it's, it's very different. [00:09:54] Doug: It's very, very different in that regard. And the reason why is because, uh, it's upstream versus downstream. And I want to talk about this as much as possible over the next year. And the reason why is because. We live in the downstream every day. Right. Uh, and so what we do is we go, well, when the downstream flows my way, I'm happy. And when the downstream flows against me, I'm sad. And that basically means when circumstances go my way. It's awesome. And in some ways you just can't help it. I mean, if you're going somewhere and then you hit every green light, Right. You just can't help, but put a smile on your face and go, wow, man, the planets aligned for me. [00:10:33] Jesse: I drive through a lot of lights on work, on the drive to work every day. [00:10:37] Doug: Yeah. You know what I'm saying? You know, and, and, uh, you're weaving through traffic and there's all this stuff and suddenly it opens up and you find yourself at the front accidentally and you're like, wow, you can't help, but feel good, you know, good fortune. Has a good feeling about it. But the question is, is that re authentic joy, because what happens the down is that if that's all joy is then you are living in a downstream life with no influence over the stream. Whereas in Christianity, the focuses on what's happening in your soul, which is an upstream event. And the more that you focus on the upstream, then the more the downstream. Goes your way so to speak. [00:11:22] Jesse: Well, I think it's, you know, that analogy has so many uses just because you think about, um, you think about these, these examples of, you know, chemical plants, dumping things into the water. Right. And it's like, when you. Crap into the water. It floats downstream and it affects the people. And there's so many lawsuits that are still in court for corporations of poisoning towns, because they were dumping stuff into the water. Yeah. And then it gets into people makes people sick. Yeah. I had no control over that. Or they, or they said, yes, it would be great to have this company in our town. And so it's like, you kind of get what you put in, right. If you're passive about it. Be passive. [00:12:04] Doug: Exactly. But this is a perfect, uh, point or analogy. And that is, is this, let's say they're dumping something in the water. Right. And you're sick. Okay. And if you're sick and you're not feeling good and it starts to rain outside, what happens? It's just 10 times worse. If, if, uh, your car, you know, runs out of gas, it's 10 times when you're sick and you're tired and you feel bad, little things, you know, your dog. It has an accident. You know, you want to send your dog to Africa or something, you know what I'm saying? Even little things just are so bad, but what happens if there was something in the water upstream and you're drinking it and each day you're getting stronger and thinner and better looking and your car runs out of gas. So what do you do for that company? [00:12:49] Jesse: Whatever they're dumping [00:12:51] Doug: you're like, oh, wow. My car ran out of gas. so what, I'll just push it, this will be fun. I'm running to work today. I'm going to run to work today. You see what I'm saying is that that upstream thing changes how you perceive. Doesn't make your car not break down, but your joy isn't stolen. Cause you're not sick in your soul. [00:13:10] Jesse: You need that musical theater dumping chemicals. The one that gets everybody up and dancing at a, at a moment's notice, that's the thing that they need to be dumping. [00:13:19] Doug: Or sing it to Everett, but see that that's and that's what we're talking about between upstream and downstream, you know, uh, like let's, let's keep moving on second Corinthians chapter eight, listen to what Paul writes. He goes, and now brothers and sisters, we want you to know about the grace. That God has given the Macedonian churches. So there's a group of churches in Macedonia. Okay. In the midst of a very severe trial. So they were going through a drought up there. And so things weren't going well in Macedonia, which was way north of modern day Israel. And. Uh, where Jerusalem was, it says, but even in the midst of their drought and severe trial, their overflowing joy and their extreme prov poverty. So they were poor. They didn't have any. Welled up in rich generosity. So even though they didn't have anything, what they did is they brought together everything. They could all the money that they could, and they sent it to Jerusalem because in Jerusalem there was a famine. So even though things were really bad for the Macedonian churches, things were worse for the church down, in Jerusalem. And so what's really interesting here too, is that the Macedonian churches were predominantly non-Jewish and the church down in Jerusalem was predominantly Jewish Jewish. And before the Jews and the Gentiles. Very opposed to each other. They didn't have anything to do with each other. And now you have churches, even though they don't have anything, they're taking up a collection, they're giving it to Paul to take to Jerusalem, to ease the famine that's going on there. He, he goes in the midst of a very severe trial, their overflowing joy, and their extreme poverty welled up in rich generosity for, I testify that they gave as much as they were able and even beyond their ability. So joy is more than just a feeling of happiness. It's an upstream, attitudinal mindset that changes how you experience and interact with every downstream circumstance in your life. So if you are sick in your soul, the upstream thing, like the water illustration, which is perfect, and it's making you sick, then everything that's happening downstream. Is 10 times worse and you you're convinced I can't ever be joyful because nothing is going my way. You know, my dog doesn't like me, my car doesn't like me, the world is stacked against me. You know, you get woe is me. I think I'll go eat some worms. But what happens is when your soul gets healed and filled, right? And so then all of these things, you're going to continue to suffer like these people in Macedonia, they were having a terrible time, but because, of the upstream healing of the soul. They were joyful even in their poverty to the point that they were able to give beyond their ability. So the stronger the healing of the soul, then the more powerful, the attitudinal mindset about your every day downstream circumstances. [00:16:24] Jesse: Well, I think joy and generosity are so intricately tied together. Um, they kind of feed into each other, you know, if you, if you're joyful, you're more apt to be generous and that generosity causes more joy. And it's just kind of this amazing feedback loop in a positive way. I mean, when I was on a mission trip in Honduras for a month, we went out and we did, um, this family wanted to have a prayer meeting and they lived in a pretty rundown part of Duluth ALPA. Um, but. Drove out there. And they were just so honored to have all of us missionaries in their house with them. And they basically took a week's worth of food and cooked it up for us, even though like we ate well, we had, I mean our money exchange rate down there is very good. We were, we were living pretty solid while we were down there. And they, cooked up so much food. It had to have been a week's worth of their food, and they were happy to share it with us because they had a joy in their faith in the fact that they were able to. Um, be, be showing how much they love God. And they were able to host a prayer meeting and, and they were honored to be able to have the church come over for their thing. And so, I mean, it was amazing to see what kind of generosity outflows from a real true sense of joy, even in poverty. Um, even the people that have no resources are happy to go; well, you know, I can do, I can do without, you know, you're in a worse place. Let me help you. And it seems like the more wealth you have it, it tends to be kind of an inverse thing for some people where it's like the more money I gained, the less I want to let go. I, I ball it into my fist and it's like, no, this is mine. And, but it's because you're also losing joy. I think it puts your mindset differently. You're focusing on the, on, on the fiscal rather than the. The spiritual. [00:18:14] Doug: Yeah. And I think that, uh, those two are intimately joy and generosity, not just, uh, from a financial standpoint, but from every other area. Yeah. And even in your marriage, you know, or even in your dating life or even with your kids. And you know, that joy and generosity, uh, are intimately linked because joy comes from an upstream, soul that has been healed and redeemed. Right. And so it creates a mindset. And if, if your kids are a burden to you and they drive you crazy constantly, sometimes that happens, but, uh, I've [00:18:51] Jesse: Never heard a parent complain about their kids driving them crazy. [00:18:54] Doug: But if every day you're up and say what a gift, these people, these kids have been to me and I'm a steward, you know, they don't belong to me. I'm managing them for God. And, and so I think it's really important about how joy is something more than just a circumstance going your way. It's about. Upstream change of heart that changes everything down below. So it's like the fruit or the harvest. [00:19:20] Jesse: Well, speaking of fruit, there's the fruits of the spirit, right? Yeah. Um, is this what Paul was talking about in Galatians? Um, it's like 5:22, uh, but the fruit of the spirit is love joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness. And faithfulness. Is that similar mindset? [00:19:36] Doug: Yeah, I think it's the exact same mindset. And he says the same thing to the Thessalonians again in first Thessalonians chapter one, verse five and six, he says because the, our gospel came to you. Not simply with words, but also with power. With Holy Spirit and deep conviction. See deep conviction is really interesting, is that similar to repentance? You know, what, what it is is it's like a conviction is, uh, a change of mind and deep conviction means we really thought this and now we've totally changed and gone in this new direction. So it has that flavor of repentance and he says it came to them on deep conviction. You know how he lived among you. You became imitators of us and of the Lord for you. Welcome the message in the midst of severe suffering with the joy given by the holy spirit. So when we turn to God, the upstream, part of our soul can be filled and healed, and that is joyful. So, I think the whole notion of upstream downstream is applicable in just about every situation, especially when it comes to the fruit of the spirit. [00:20:47] Jesse: So let's kind of recap what you've you've shared with us so far, joy is more than just happiness, especially the fleeting happiness we get from, you know, a downstream event and a downstream event. It doesn't require, you know, real true, authentic joy doesn't require. Good circumstances to experience it. Right, right. Um, joy as a result of the work of the Holy Spirit within our lives. Um, we can't have that without the holy spirit being part of that equation. Our joy can grow as we grow in our faith and our, in our, our binding with the holy spirit. And then, um, I mean, just in general, we could all do with a little more joy in our life. [00:21:30] Doug: Well, here's some specific steps. I think that I'd like to encourage people based on these biblical principles that you just encapsulated, in that is first and foremost, is that you need to work on the condition of your soul. If your soul is not, you know, being hit healed first, if it's not redeemed, then it's really tough to live and experience more joy. Uh, number two is if you're not being filled. With the holy spirit and what they mean by that, I think over and over in the new Testament is that I am re I'm actively repenting every day. In other words, I am turning to God to learn his values so that the holy spirit is maximizing these values. In my life, the things of God in my life. And then the third thing is then you can work on your perspective. It's like, okay, how does the things that God value move through me and these downstream events? It gives you a little bit of a capacity to rise above it. you see. If you can rise above it, it allows you to be so much more joyful because little things don't get to you. I remember a coach a long time ago, somebody came to him and said, you know, Hey, last year, you know, your team won the state championship, and this year you guys are off to a horrible start, you know? Um, how do you feel that, I feel about that? And he says, well, he goes, uh, criticism or blame does not make you worthless. And praise does not make you holy. Hmm. So he just took it all with a grain of salt. You know what I'm saying? Even when I'm winning the state championship, I'm not the greatest coach in the world. Right. And then when things aren't going well, I'm not the worst coach in the world. So he's, he's had a capacity through age and wisdom and maturity to rise above it, right up and down. Um, the, the higher, your perspective, the greater your drive. Uh, Dr. Peter Kraft says this, he's the, uh, professor emeritus of philosophy at Boston U. And he says that the people that have lived the most joyful lives and the people in the most influential lives tended to be the most heavenly minded people [00:23:39] Jesse: they're there. They're future-proofing [00:23:41] Doug: yeah. Future-focused. So then that, you know, another way to increase your joy is focused on being a better person. You know, be a better person and Proverbs, there are 17 references to joy, all right. 17 references in Proverbs alone about joy. Half of them deal with the child- parent relationship. So that means if you're not focusing on how to be a better parent, you're doing your best as a parent, then your kids are going to grow up and they're going to steal all your joy. [00:24:11] Jesse: I have a running joke in the office cause I'm the only one without a kid in the office. Um, and when they have kids over there, they're saying something about, oh, my kid did this. I'm like, "oh yeah, Jesse have kids. It's the great just experience of your life." And I've always been pretty sarcastic about it. Yeah. But I will say almost, I would say every single one of them would say, yes, love their kids and they're bringing them so much dry, but you can't have joy without a little bit of sorrow too. [00:24:40] Doug: A little bit of challenge, but th but that's, you know, but be a better parent. See, and here's, what's really interesting about upstream, downstream and parenting. And that is, is that if you try to pair it based on the downstream, you're just going to react to every situation. Right. But if you're an upstream parent, you already know what your core values are, you know, what you want to give your kids. You know, what your mission is is that you want to send them out is capable, confident, courageous adults. Right? So then all the situations, the ups and the downs. You the edge are, you know, when they make a mistake, it's not the end of the world when they do the greatest thing, it doesn't mean that the greatest in the world, right. It kind of levels you out. The other thing you can do upstream, I think really important for joy is you can practice forgiveness, practice forgiveness each and every day are the people that you're closest to practice forgiveness in for yourself. The more you work on forgiveness, the lighter your soul becomes. You've got to detox your soul from bitterness, and regret and guilt and shame. You got to just detox yourself from all that stuff. And then that's an upstream thing. And the more healthy your soul is, guess what happens downstream, regardless of the stream, regardless of the circumstance, you will have more joy. Spent, another upstreaming of the things is invest yourself. Spend time, just spend time doing the most important spiritual things. Spend the most time, just if God values these things, you know, Jesus values these things. If he values worship, he fee values meditation on his word, if he values prayer, if he values community and fellowship with other, uh, redeemed people, then you should value those things and just do them, you know, do them. And then, and then the other thing that I tell people this, and this is what's really. Is that if you really want to find joy over the long-term of your life, stay in one place. [00:26:34] Jesse: Just like physically stay in one place. Stay. I'm never leaving my house again. Is that what you're telling me, Pastor Doug? No, I'm I'm monkeying and just sequestering myself to my room. I mean, [00:26:47] Doug: find a church in stay there. Just find a church and stay there over a long period of time, find a city, right. And then develop friendships and roots in that city. It's really fascinating. There was a study out in that is so many people retire, and then they want to like, oh, I want to go, I'm going to go live on the beach in Costa Rica, or I'm going to go to Belize, I'm going to do this. I'm gonna do that. And what they found is that the people in their retirement that were the happiest, had the fullest retirement and live longer than anybody else where people who didn't leave their community, that they had developed before they retired. Mm. So if you stay there now, I'm not saying don't get a beach house that you go down to or take your friends to. And Billy's, that's, I'm not saying that at all. I'm just simply saying is that don't underestimate the, the power and influence of your community, of friends and church and relationships for your long-term health when you retire. So if you're young, Bouncing around and chasing the buck everywhere you go does not help you in the long-term of your life. Go someplace, stay there, build and set deep roots. [00:27:59] Jesse: Well, I appreciate you sharing these insights on joy, Pastor Doug, I, as we've talked about in this, um, this session, we, there's a lot of lack of joy in the world right now. So, I think, um, empowering our listeners and giving them ways that they can improve their own joy, but also share with other people. I mean, their base joy. If they're listening to this as probably a little bit higher than, you know, some of their coworkers who maybe aren't even looking for some sort of spiritual growth in their life. So this is a great episode where you can interact with, people around you and say, how are you working on your joy? How are you? You know, the, the, the world at large is trying to fix it through a secular means, you know, mindfulness and take your, you know, breaks, get up and go for a walk. And those are all great things for physical, um, things. But we've talked about those physical joys don't last, the only way you're going to get real true, authentic, long lasting joy is through Jesus Christ and his Holy Spirit. And you can. You don't want to keep that info to yourself. Don't sequester that secret knowledge of how you're becoming more joyful from the people around you. So have a conversation, talk to them about how they're growing in their faith, where they can really find joy and how they can be happier in this world that sometimes. It makes it really hard to be joyful. So we appreciate you guys joining us. Uh, please tune in on Thursday. We'll do some deeper diving onto, um, where joy can come from in our lives. Some more practical applications. And then obviously on Sunday, Pastor Doug will be preaching on it. So thank you so much for joining us and we'll see you on Thursday here on the salty pastor podcast, [00:29:33] Doug: Blessings.