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Arbitration agreements and nursing home wrongful death claims · The Legal Exchange

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  Speaker 1: This is the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky from the
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: law firm of Cushing and Dolan and Susan Powers of
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: the Armstrong Advisory Group. Each week, Todd and Susan will
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  Speaker 1: discuss many topics, including estate planning, how to avoid probate,
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  Speaker 1: and protecting your money from a nursing home. If you
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  Speaker 1: need assistance in any of these areas, or have a
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  Speaker 1: question about another issue that may affect your future, call
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  Speaker 1: to make an appointment. That's eight sixty six eight four
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  Speaker 1: eight five six ninety nine. Operators are standing by. Now
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  Speaker 1: Here are your hosts, Todd Lutsky and Susan Powers.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm Susan Power,
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  Speaker 2: to financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group and I'm
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  Speaker 2: joined by Todd Lutsky, a partner with the law firm
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  Speaker 2: of Cushing and Dolan with a master's in taxation. Welcome Todd.
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  Speaker 2: How are you today?
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  Speaker 3: I'm never better in you.
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  Speaker 2: I'm great, Thank you and what do you have for
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  Speaker 2: us this week?
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  Speaker 3: Couple of things. One, I got a California Appellate court
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  Speaker 3: case and then we're going to head over to my
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  Speaker 3: home state, Ohio. Yeah, got an Ohio case for you.
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  Speaker 3: So this first one is about arbitration. We haven't had
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  Speaker 3: one of these in a while, but when I see
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  Speaker 3: them come up and they strike me as kind of,
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  Speaker 3: you know, shocking, I say, yeah, this is one we
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  Speaker 3: ought to talk about. So this is a situation where
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  Speaker 3: an individual signs an arbitration agreement admitted to a nursing home,
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  Speaker 3: and then there's a wrongful death situation and does this
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  Speaker 3: arbitration agreement apply or not apply? And I'll give you
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  Speaker 3: all the facts and we'll figure out what to do
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  Speaker 3: because entering nursing homes is a stressful time and you
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  Speaker 3: really need to know what to sign, how to sign it,
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  Speaker 3: and when to sign it or not to sign it
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  Speaker 3: at all. So lots of documents, lots of things I
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  Speaker 3: want to talk about there. Then we're going to head
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  Speaker 3: over to Ohio. And I've got a situation here where
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  Speaker 3: it's really a forged co trustee signature situation. Now, I
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  Speaker 3: know you've got everything in place, You've got a family trust,
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  Speaker 3: you've got kids listed as trustees, they're the beneficiaries, and
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  Speaker 3: you think things are good, and then the donor decides
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  Speaker 3: to resign as trustee and put the kids on as trustee,
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  Speaker 3: and then the problems start. So less and number one,
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  Speaker 3: please stay serving as trustee if you can. So interesting case,
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  Speaker 3: and we'll explain how it works. But again you'll still
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  Speaker 3: see that trusts are going to be better than not
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  Speaker 3: having them. So, folks, that all said, especially with this
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  Speaker 3: arbitration case, when you enter a nursing home, an IRA
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  Speaker 3: is the toughest asset to deal with. It's tough when
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  Speaker 3: you're entering a nursing home. It's tough when you're planning
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  Speaker 3: for nursing home admission or doing estate planning in general.
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  Speaker 3: That's why we put together this guide. Why name your
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: Estate and IRA beneficiary? Sounds like it's a bad idea,
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: but it actually can help you not only reduce estate taxes,
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  Speaker 3: not have an adverse income tax effect with an IRA,
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  Speaker 3: because you've got to deal with both and at the
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  Speaker 3: same time provide a way to protect an IRA from
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  Speaker 3: the cost of nursing home care, which is the hardest
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  Speaker 3: asset to do that with. So folks, please call and
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  Speaker 3: get the guide. Why Name your Estate and IRA Beneficiary?
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  Speaker 3: Eight six six eight four eight five six ninety nine
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  Speaker 3: or Legal Exchange Show dot com again eight six six
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  Speaker 3: eight four eight five six ninety nine or Legal Exchange
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  Speaker 3: Show dot com. Let's it back to California. So here's
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  Speaker 3: a situation. So Trudy is admitted to Atria Park Nursing
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  Speaker 3: Home in September of twenty twenty. James her Son signs
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  Speaker 3: all the admission documents, the residency agreement, and signs it
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  Speaker 3: individually or as a responsible person. A little scary, folks.
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  Speaker 3: I probably wouldn't sign things as a responsible person, but
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  Speaker 3: individually is probably okay if you're going to do it.
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  Speaker 3: But that's how he signed all of those, and then
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  Speaker 3: separately he signs an arbitration agreement executed that he signs
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  Speaker 3: rather as durable power of attorney for Trudy. Now he's
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  Speaker 3: actually the successor attorney in fact, behind his father, James,
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  Speaker 3: who had already died, so he signs this as power
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  Speaker 3: of attorney. There's also a health care proxy that exists,
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  Speaker 3: and it was the daughter, Mary Beth, after the husband,
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  Speaker 3: so that in this case, James had died, so the
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  Speaker 3: daughter was the health care proxy, Mary Beth. Okay, seemingly
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  Speaker 3: everything's fine. What does the arbitration agreement actually say, which
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  Speaker 3: isn't key here in this agreement, it says it states
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  Speaker 3: that any and all claims or disputes a rising out
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  Speaker 3: of Trudy's residence at Atria a asserted by either party
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  Speaker 3: to the agreement.
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  Speaker 2: This applies to to go to arbitration. And why would
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  Speaker 2: you not want to go to arbitration?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, arbitration is never good because you don't have the jury.
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  Speaker 3: You don't have this trial by jury with their emotions
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  Speaker 3: and their you know, twelve people, and you know you're
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  Speaker 3: able to look and you know, here of an arbitration agreement,
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  Speaker 3: you just have some arbitrator saying let's settle this thing,
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  Speaker 3: you know, one way or another. So so that language
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  Speaker 3: in this, in this particular agreement is kind of important
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  Speaker 3: and we'll come back to that as we move through this.
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  Speaker 3: So life goes on from September twenty twenty to August
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  Speaker 3: twenty twenty two, when Trudy dies after being poisoned with
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  Speaker 3: cleaning liquid fluid put into her drink, which is really good, lord,
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  Speaker 3: I know, a wow moment. And actually there were some
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  Speaker 3: other people that had that happened to them as well. Wow. Yeah,
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  Speaker 3: bad place. And in this case James and seven kids
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  Speaker 3: filed a wrongful death action against Atria. Well, of course,
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  Speaker 3: Atria says, well, the arbitration agreement should apply. The kids say, no,
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  Speaker 3: arbitration does not apply because we're not a party to
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  Speaker 3: the agreement. Remember the agreement said between either party goes
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  Speaker 3: we're kids, we're not a party to this agreement, so
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  Speaker 3: we're bringing the action. And the Superior Court denied the motion.
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  Speaker 2: For arbitration, so they didn't have to go to arbitration.
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  Speaker 3: Well, they appealed. Of course, on appeal, the Appellate Court affirmed, saying,
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  Speaker 3: no arbitration why same idea, Right, arbitration applies only to
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  Speaker 3: disputes between Trudy and Atria, and the wrongful death claim
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  Speaker 3: is not a derivative of Trudy's cause of action and
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  Speaker 3: the kids were not parties to the agreement.
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  Speaker 2: I don't think this is just a matter of negligence.
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  Speaker 2: This is criminal.
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  Speaker 3: Does sound that way, certainly does sound that.
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  Speaker 2: I would think the arbitration's out the window if you're
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  Speaker 2: murdering people in the nursing home.
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  Speaker 3: Well, in this case, they you know, they they said, yeah,
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  Speaker 3: no arbitration. I get it. So you wipe your brow
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  Speaker 3: and you move on. No, but what do we learn
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  Speaker 3: from this? Right? This isn't about this so much.
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  Speaker 2: Don't bring your people to that place.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, but in any event, obviously, entering a nursing
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  Speaker 3: home is a stressful time, folks. And when you're doing that,
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  Speaker 3: you're signing whatever is being put in front of.
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  Speaker 2: A big stack of paperwork first and foremost, don't just
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  Speaker 2: do that, right, I get it.
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  Speaker 3: The admission agreement, you know, showing your financial assets, you
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  Speaker 3: know what, that kind of stuff. Yeah, sign it first
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  Speaker 3: and foremost. The thing we learned from this is just
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  Speaker 3: don't sign an arbitration agreement. You never have to. There's
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  Speaker 3: rules that say they can never make it a condition
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  Speaker 3: of admission. And even if they tell you it's a
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  Speaker 3: condition of admission, you tell them right back that it
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  Speaker 3: is not a condition of admission by law.
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  Speaker 2: I don't understand why they're still allowed to even put
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  Speaker 2: the form in there.
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  Speaker 3: I know, well, I mean, as a company, you should
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  Speaker 3: be allowed to offer that to your people. And in fact,
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  Speaker 3: it's good that you mentioned Susan because if in fact
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  Speaker 3: they do mention it, and they're gonna mention it again
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  Speaker 3: to avoid all this headache that this family went through,
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  Speaker 3: just don't sign it. I get it, but they're going
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  Speaker 3: to put it in front of you. And then there's
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  Speaker 3: this notice Act that came out several years ago that
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  Speaker 3: basically says there needs to be a standard procedure, not
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  Speaker 3: just thrown in front of you. It's got to have
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  Speaker 3: bold letters at the top that it's an arbitration agreement.
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  Speaker 3: You need to be able to have time to take
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  Speaker 3: it on your own and read it over and private.
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  Speaker 3: You need to have time to have discussions with the
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  Speaker 3: facility explain to you what an arbitration agreement is. It's
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  Speaker 3: it's so there's there's a process, and if you don't
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  Speaker 3: go through that process and sign it, that could make
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  Speaker 3: the agreement void even though even though you signed it,
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  Speaker 3: perhaps legally, if you didn't get this procedure followed, it's
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  Speaker 3: no good. So please don't just sign it. But if
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  Speaker 3: you're gonna sign it, folks, sign it as a healthcare proxy.
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  Speaker 3: Remember Mary, the daughter Mary Beth was a healthcare proxy.
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  Speaker 3: She could have signed it. Case after case shows that
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  Speaker 3: that is not a medical decision. Signing an arbitration agreement. Therefore,
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  Speaker 3: the health care proxy cannot bind you.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, don't sign it as power attorney if you happen
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  Speaker 2: to wear both.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, power of attorney is a risky one because it
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  Speaker 3: could have language in it that allows that to happen,
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  Speaker 3: So don't sign it that way. So, folks, in any event,
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  Speaker 3: this just what you do when you're going into the
• 9:56
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  Speaker 2: Welcome back into the legal exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: Susan Powers, a financial adviser the Armstrong Advisory Group, and
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: I'm joined by Todd Lutsky, a partner with the law
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  Speaker 2: firm of Cushing and Dolan with a master's in taxation.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: Where are we headed now, Todd, We're going to head over.
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  Speaker 3: To the Southern District Court of Ohio again my hometown,
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  Speaker 3: home state town. Not so much. How does what is
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  Speaker 3: going on here? It's forged co trustees, signatures, hiding sales proceeds.
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  Speaker 3: This is an intriguing case.
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  Speaker 2: Murder. We have four tell you, this.
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  Speaker 3: Is a day to remember. So in this case, Sydney
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  Speaker 3: establishes a family trust in nineteen ninety eight, Fine has
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  Speaker 3: his two kids, Collette and Robert, as both trustees and
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  Speaker 3: remainder beneficiaries after the death of his wife Merrily. Well,
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  Speaker 3: that's fine, so that sounds like a regular run of
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: the Mill Family revocable Trust, and I think this sounds
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: like we're often running with some good estate planning. In
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  Speaker 3: two thousand and three, Sidney resigns as trustee. Okay, nineteen
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  Speaker 3: ninety eight, two thousand and three, he resigns. I can't
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  Speaker 3: understand why that's the missing maybe links older here in
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  Speaker 3: losing capacity. Well, let's see, because it doesn't make sense
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  Speaker 3: when the facts go on. Fast forward to twenty fifteen.
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  Speaker 3: He's still alive. So you know, twenty fifteen is thirteen
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  Speaker 3: years later. Trust purchases a condo in Jacksonville, Florida. So
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  Speaker 3: if he resigns as trustee, the kids are now trustees
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  Speaker 3: Collette and Robert. Okay, so they buy this property in Jacksonville, Florida,
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  Speaker 3: and at the same time they amend the trust. Allegedly,
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: this amendment is signed by Robert, Collette and Sydney. So
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  Speaker 3: Sidney is still alive and competent because he signed this amendment. Now,
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  Speaker 3: remember he's not trustee, but he's still the donor. And
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: also remember which is a very strange situation here that
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  Speaker 3: only the donor can amend the trust. Trustees cannot amend
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  Speaker 3: the trust. Well, I'm not entirely sure, not having read
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  Speaker 3: the document. Why the trustees had to sign here? But
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  Speaker 3: they did, and they say Robert did it. Well, it
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  Speaker 3: turns out that later Robert admitted that he forged Sydney's
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  Speaker 3: and Collet's signature. So the trustee and the donor on
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  Speaker 3: the twenty fifteen amendment. In twenty nineteen, Sidney's still alive.
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  Speaker 3: Why on earth is he resigning as trustee? This is
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: the whole not having all the facts.
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  Speaker 2: I think, because this was a revocable trust that are.
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  Speaker 3: Vocalvocable family trust. Right. The trust sells the Florida condo,
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  Speaker 3: and of course the title company wants Collet's signature because
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  Speaker 3: she's listed as a co trustee. Oh well, Robert shows
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  Speaker 3: that Collett resigned. Of course he forged that signature, and
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  Speaker 3: now has this signed by Sidney, Robert and Ja, his wife,
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  Speaker 3: who is now the new co trustee.
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  Speaker 2: Isn't that convenience with Robert?
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  Speaker 3: Wow? Then they traveled all the way. They took the
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: proceeds to a fidelity in Idaho. Remember they're from Ohio.
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: They took this money to Idaho and a fidelity they
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  Speaker 3: opened up and deposited the money in a fidelity account.
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  Speaker 3: A trust account, mind you with Jenna, his wife shown
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  Speaker 3: as the only trustee. Who how did that happen?
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  Speaker 2: Getting money?
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  Speaker 3: It's getting money, and so the court says, So Collete
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  Speaker 3: files to have Robert removed breach of fiduciary duty, susan
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  Speaker 3: individually everything. Robert decides to file a summary judgment, saying no, no, no,
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  Speaker 3: you can't sue me under latches.
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  Speaker 2: But dead's still alive.
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  Speaker 3: Here's still alive. But apparently, you know, the trustee is
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  Speaker 3: allowed to bring the action. Collette is a co trustee.
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  Speaker 3: She was never removed, she didn't sign, so she's still trustee.
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  Speaker 3: So she brings the action and said and he says, no,
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: you can't sue me under latches. You you waited too
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  Speaker 3: long to bring your action. That's what latches is. And
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  Speaker 3: Colette said, no, you can't waive this under latches because
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  Speaker 3: you have something called unclean hands. You're a bad person.
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  Speaker 2: He's probably trying to get his dad into that nursing
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  Speaker 2: home from the last story.
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  Speaker 3: And yes, the court agreed and said, because there is
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  Speaker 3: now a material fact, this summary judgment motion is denied.
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  Speaker 3: Reman the case and take it to court. So we
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: don't have an answer for you.
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  Speaker 2: But I've told you about.
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  Speaker 3: But at the end of the day, I mean, that's right.
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  Speaker 3: You can't be a bad person and then claim a
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: defense if you have unclean hands. These defenses don't apply
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  Speaker 3: to you.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: Can the dad just fire all the trustees and take
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: you back, don't.
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: I don't understand why Dad ever resigned as trustee. He's
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: signing stuff, Folks. This is an interesting case. It's a
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: wow case. It really is a wow case. But the
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: trusts work, and let me show you why and how
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: they worked here, even though I don't have the reason
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: out for you, they are working. What you need to do, though, folks,
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: is when you're doing your trust, understand that assets need
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: to be accounted for, and iras are one of them,
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: and they're very difficult to deal with in both a
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: regular estate planning world like this case with a family trust,
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: and also if you have an irrevocable medicaid trust and
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: you want to do both medicaid planning and estate tax planning,
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: how do you deal with an IRA? Get this guide.
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: It will show you how best to handle your IRA,
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: and maybe by naming the estate as the beneficiary, you
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: can do both estate tax planning and nursing, home protection
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: planning at the same time for an era eight six
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: six eight four eight five six nine nine or Legal
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: Exchange Show dot com again eight six six eight four
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: eight five six nine nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com.
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: It's pretty cutting edge stuff, folks. It's only been around
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: a couple of years, but it's really an interesting, interesting read. Okay,
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: what do we learn from this? Right?
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: So?
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: Yes, is it a wowcase? Absolutely? It is right. He
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: prepares a trust he was the trustee. Everything seemed to
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: be working fine. He was providing for his spouse. The
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: kids were going to be just treated equally upon death.
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: The kids were alternate trustees after the wife. I mean,
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: everything seemed to be working fine until two thousand and
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: three when he decided to resign as trustee. I said
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: it earlier, saying it again, Wow, why is he resigning
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: as trustee? He should not do that, So none of
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: this would have happened had he stayed on as trustee.
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: Kids would have been at bay. Now I get that right.
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: I don't know why he gave up control, but remember
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: he didn't die, so he still had the ability to
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: be a part of these decisions. Now, remember, going forward,
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: you generally want language. You generally want a co trustee.
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: This to me is a good idea and why it
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: failed I think as a check in a balance here
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: is because Collet, the co trustee, wasn't paying attention. I mean,
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: if someone's buying property or selling property, you're gonna see this.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: I don't know why the dad didn't see it either.
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a very good question. Soon I don't have
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: that answer either. But in any event, just so you know,
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: I still believe if you're concerned about your children, having
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: a co trustee is going to prevent collusion. Look, in
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: this case, they tried to sell it. He had a
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: lot of collusion had to go on here. Oh yeah,
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: because even the title company said, hey, where's the other signature? Right,
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: if you go to record a D where's the other signature?
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: So you know, having that other signature on there is
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: going to cause other people, other entities to ask questions.
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: So that this check and balance is a good idea
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: and it ultimately worked here, he's not going to get
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: this because remember it's still in the trust account. Even
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: though it's in Idaho somewhere, it's in a trust account.
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: And once they end up winning this case, and removing
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: both of them as co trustees. Robert and his wife
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: collects likely to be back on as trustee, and now
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: the trust goes on and she can control it. So
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: I think it's still saved the assets. And the other
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: problem I have with this trust. Like in our trust,
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: it says upon the death, disability, or resignation of a trustee,
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: then someone else serves. And normally it says during the
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: life of the donor or during the time in which
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: the donor is serving right as trustee, and then he
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: can act independently, or the trustees in general can act independently.
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: But when he's not serving, and this isn't a family
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: revocable trust, then the trustees that are going to serve
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: later must act majority vote. That's what we put so
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: here there would have been two They would have needed
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: two signatures. They would have needed to everything to do anything,
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: open a bank account, go to fidelity, Right, folks, this
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: is a great case. It does say trust still work.
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: Just learn how to draft them and learn how to
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: fund them with your IRA or not with your IRA.
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: Why name your IRA in a state beneficiary? Get the guide.
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: It might be the way to save your assets. Eight
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: six six eight four eight five six ninety nine or
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: Legal Exchange show dot com.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Lotski, a partner with the
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Powers, a
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and Todd will
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: be answering your listener questions when we return to the
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: Spouses generally serve as the beneficiary to your IRA or
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: life insurance policy, but naming your estate the beneficiary has
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: quite a few benefits and Dolan are experts nelder log
• 24:02
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• 24:04
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• 24:07
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• 24:09
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• 24:12
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• 24:16
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• 24:26
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• 24:29
  Speaker 1: again is eight six six eight four, eight, five, six,
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: nine nine, or you can request the guide online by
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: visiting our website at Legal exchange show dot com. That's
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: legal exchange show dot com. The proceeding was paid for
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: and the views expressed are solely those of Cushing and Dolan.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan and or Armstrong Advisory may contact you
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: offering legal or investment services. Cushing and Dolan and Armstrong
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: Advisory do not endorse each other and are not affiliated.
• 24:52
  Speaker 7: According to a survey conducted by the Nationwide Retirement Institute,
• 24:55
  Speaker 7: more than two thirds of Americans say that the candidate's
• 24:58
  Speaker 7: positions on social security reform will influence how they vote
• 25:01
  Speaker 7: in next month's election. Hi, this is Chucksauta from the
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• 25:37
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: Armstrong guide a specific financial, legal, or tax advice. Consult
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: your own financial, tax, and estate planning advisors before making
• 25:48
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• 25:51
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• 25:52
  Speaker 5: Last year we introduced you to Mark Vodder, CEO of
• 25:55
  Speaker 5: Veterans Development Corporation. Mark is a career military man and
• 25:58
  Speaker 5: we're proud to have him back as the present sponsor
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  Speaker 5: of the twenty twenty four DAV five K Boston.
• 26:03
  Speaker 6: I'm a proud partner of the Disabled American Veterans Department
• 26:06
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  Speaker 6: one of the first organizations I became familiar with after
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  Speaker 6: built my company, Veterans Development Corporation, I did it knowing
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  Speaker 6: disabled veterans every day and is one of the key
• 26:26
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• 26:29
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• 26:38
  Speaker 6: or by making a donation to the DAV.
• 26:40
  Speaker 5: Veterans Development Corporation is proud to be the presenting sponsor
• 26:43
  Speaker 5: of this year's DAV five k, taking place on Saturday,
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  Speaker 5: November ninth at Fort Independence in South Boston. To register
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• 26:53
  Speaker 1: You're listening to the Legal Exchange and it's time for
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: Ask Todd, the segment where Tom will answer your questions
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: about anything and everything that's included in the estate planning process.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: Once again, Here's Todd Lutsky and Susan Powers.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: Welcome back, Tom. We've a few questions from listeners for you.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: First question comes from Rita in Newburyport, mass And Rita writes,
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: my mom is eighty four and needs to go into
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: a nursing home. She has mobility issues, but other than
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: that she's relatively healthy. She has around four hundred thousand
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: in the bank and we're wondering if anything can be
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: done now to try and protect this money. Are we
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: too late?
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: Well, the good news is no, you're never too late.
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: Of course, advanced planning, we like, is always better. I
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: get that, But in this case we're not too late.
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: There's always going to be assets kicking around, even if
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: you've done your planning that are either outside of trust
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: or in some other way simply not protected yet. So
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: in this case, she's eighty four, so the age is
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: a little on the higher side. But with the four
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: hundred thousand, and she's single, right at this point it
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: sounds like it. Yeah, so she's competent, so she can
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: sign stuff, which is helpful as well. So the only
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: thing you can really do here is is I'd look
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: at two things. I'd have to run some numbers in
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: order to protect these assets. And again, they could be
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: an IRA. It doesn't say it's in the bank, it's
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: in the bank, which.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: I'm going to assume it's not IRA money.
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: It could be IRA or not, but either way, and
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: it's good to expand the answer in this case, what
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: do we do with these excess assets? She can either
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: you know, buy a medicaid annuity. Remember she's only allowed
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: to keep two two thousand.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so everything above that.
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So there's there's you know, three hundred and ninety
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: eight thousand dollars here that you've got to figure out
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: what to do with. So she can either buy a
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: Medicaid annuity, which would convert the asset to an income stream,
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: and quite frankly, at eighty four her life expectancy, you
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: could easily buy. It's got to be you know, six
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: seven years. I think at seventy five it's twelve. So
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: at eighty four, you know, it's sure it's got to
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: be six, yep or seven. So if you took the
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: four hundred thousand and you divided it by six and
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: then divided it by twelve, I suspect that monthly amount
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: would be less than six thousand a month. Okay, So
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: as long as the numbers work and the amount of
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: the payout from the annuity doesn't exceed and this can
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: apply to anybody's case, right, you run these numbers, doesn't
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: exceed sixty five hundred dollars a month plus your social
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: Security add those two together, then an annuity could work.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: What's the sixty five hundred a month that you're.
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: Talk about what Medicaid rate is for the nursing home.
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: Great question. Yeah, it's about the Medicaid rate for the
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: nursing home around here. You know, give or take, might
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: be seven depending on your care. But still that's way
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: better than fifteen sixteen thousand a month. So you want
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: to be on Medicaid. And that's why you shift and
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: buy this Medicaid annuity. Last minute, What if she's.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: A little older or that numbers don't work and she's
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: over that.
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think that's the problem, either older or
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: a higher number. You start running these numbers with the
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: annuity and you find out that the monthly payout is
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: just too high. Well, that doesn't work. Then it doesn't
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: provide the leverage we want. Then you can go into
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: the newly enacted pooled trusts, which are back. They were out,
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: but now they're back, at least around here. I can't
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: say for every state, but they are around here, and
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: the pooled trust would be a way of throwing the
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: money into a pooled trust. Doesn't matter the amount. It's
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: immediately protected from the nursing home. Yeah, there's a payback
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: provision when you die, but you're at the Medicaid rate
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: so you don't care. And remember there's a payback provision
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: with the annuity because they have a lean on the
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: annuity for the unpaid balance of the annuity when you
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: pass away if there is one. So two options here.
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: And by the way, these pool trusts, while back, I
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: don't believe are available until I want to say, mid December.
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: I think mid December of this year, they're effectively back.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: So maybe your private paid for a couple of months.
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: And ye go through the procedure if the numbers on
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: the annuity side don't work. Folks, lots to think about
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: when you're entering a nursing home and one of those
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: assets you inevitably would be thinking about as an IRA
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: because you generally cannot protect them from the nursing home
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: in advance until kind of now, this naming your estate
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: and IRA beneficiary is a guide that might show you
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: the way to protect these assets in advance of a
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: nursing home provided one of you died before going to
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: a nursing home and left the assets instead of to
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: the spouse, to the estate of the decedent. Learn how
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: this can not only shelter assets and IRA assets from
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: estate taxes, not adversely affect your income tax payout from
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: the IRA and at the same time protect your assets
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: from the nursing home for the surviving spouse without a
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: five year waiting period. Folks call and get the guide
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: eight six six eight four eight five six nine nine
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: or Legal Exchange Show dot com again eight six six
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: eight four eight five six nine nine or Legal Exchange
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: Show dot com.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: Our last question comes from Donna and Milbury Mass And
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: Donna writes, four years ago, my mother created a life estate,
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: enlisted myself and my brother on the d to her home,
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: and now wants to sell the home and downsize. She
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: had a falling out with my brother and he said
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: he won't sign the p and s because the proper
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: is already half his. Does my mother have any legal recourse?
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: Ah, this is probably why we don't do life stuff away.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: Don't give your stuff away.
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: Your point is well taken better than even the life estate.
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: Don't give your stuff away. And you're thinking if you're
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: out there listening and you're thinking, well, she didn't give
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: it away. She has a life estate, so she kept something. Yeah,
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: but she kept a little peace.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: Doesn't seem to do her much good when she wants
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: to sell her own house.
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: Right, she still gave away is our point? Something She
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: gave away the remainder interest in the home. And when
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: you do a life estate, and again there's two ways
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: to do in one where you name the kids as
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: a benefit as a remainderman, or you name a trust
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: as a remainderman. In this case, by naming the kids
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: as the remainderman, she's made a completed gift the moment
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: she created the life estate, putting that remainder interest of
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: vested remainder interest in their hands. Now, in all fairness,
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: they couldn't move against her while she's living there. She
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: is entitled to not only live there, pay the bills,
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: and collect any rent if they chose to rent it.
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: The remainder men aren't entitled to any of that. So
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: as a life tenant, you do have some rights. And yes,
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: it would be protected from the nursing home in five years,
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: but you said it was done four years ago. It
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: doesn't sound like anyone's going into the nursing home right now.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: No, she just wants to sell. And again, this is
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: the exact kind as permission. Guess what he's saying.
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: No, yeah, this is really what it comes down to.
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: So all of you that have life estates out there,
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: you ought to really reconsider or look at them now
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: and see if there's not a way you can undo
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: this and fix it. And I don't know everybody's situation,
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: but I'm going to go on a limb and say,
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: likely there is. But you're going to have to talk
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: to the kids. So before you have this falling out
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: like they had here, talk to the kids and see
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: if there's a way to undo it. So that if
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: you the life tenant, do want to sell in the future,
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: you don't need anyone's permission, but here you do. So
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: the only way her really her recourse is simply hopefully
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: she's got other assets. If she's got other assets, she
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: can threaten disinheritance with the rest of her estate and
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: hopefully that's enough to make a difference on what this
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: kid is going to get when he gets half of
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: a house. You know, that's that's the only play I
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: really see here. You hate to go down that road,
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: but that might be where you have to go.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: I think there's a parent alive above threatening their children
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: in some way.
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, that's just where you go now, folks,
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: if you had done this life estate, but put the
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: remainder interest in one of the Medicaid irrevocable trusts that
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: we talk about a lot. You wouldn't have this problem
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: because I don't need anybody's permission, right the donor as
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: the life tenant could could sell and the donor of
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: the trust could simply instruct the trustee to sign everything.
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: And if the trustee doesn't listen, then the donor removes
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: the trustee and you win either way. So folks, think
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: about the best way to do your planning. I don't
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: think life estates are on the top of the list. Also,
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: learn how to protect iras from nursing homes the state
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: taxes part of your estate plan. Get the guide eight
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: sixty six eight four eight five six nine nine or
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: Legal Exchange Show dot com.
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: If you have a question you would like to ask Todd,
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: visit his website Legal Exchange Show dot com and click
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: on the ask Tod tab. Maybe I'll be able to
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: read your question on the air, and hopefully his answer
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: will stop you from becoming one of his next real
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: life stories. You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: with the law firm of Cushing and Dolan I'm Susan Powers,
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the arms Strong Advisory Group. We'll
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: be back with more after this quick break on the
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: Spouses generally serve as the beneficiary to your IRA or
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: life insurance policy, but naming your estate the beneficiary has
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: quite a few benefits. Cushing and Dolan are experts elder
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: log and they can help you protect your assets from
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: probate and the nursing home. By naming your estate as
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: a beneficiary, you can avoid the probate process, less than
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: the chance of creating any income tax issues on your rmds,
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: and enjoy enhanced a state tax reduction. Call Cushing and
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: Dolan right now at eight six six eight four eight
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: five six ninet nine and ask for their brand new
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: guide called why Name your Estate and IRA Beneficiary? Learn
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: about these benefits and others, and provide peace of mind
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: for you and your family during your retirement years. That
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: number again is eight six six eight four eight five
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: six nine nine, or you can request the guide online
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: by visiting our website at Legal exchange Show dot com.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: That's Legal exchange show dot com. The proceeding was paid
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: for and the views expressed are solely those of Cushing
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: and Dolan. Cushing, Dolan and or Armstrong Advisory may contact
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: you offering legal or investment services. Cushing and Dolan and
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each other and are not affiliated.
• 38:08
  Speaker 5: This Veterans Day weekend. Help honor all who have served
• 38:11
  Speaker 5: this country. Join us on Saturday, November nine for the
• 38:14
  Speaker 5: ninth annual Disabled American Veterans five K Boston, proudly presented
• 38:17
  Speaker 5: by Veterans Development Corporation. It's a run and walk to
• 38:20
  Speaker 5: support the DAV Department of Massachusetts Saturday November nine at
• 38:24
  Speaker 5: DCR's Castle Island in South Boston. Let's honor all who
• 38:28
  Speaker 5: have sacrificed for our freedom. Register or donate now at
• 38:31
  Speaker 5: DAV five k dot Boston. That's DAV five k dot Boston.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: Follow listen full swaying. The leaves are changing, the days
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: are getting shorter, and the cold is anchin closer. Don't
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: let the prospect of darkness at four pm get you down,
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: because your next incredible vacation is just a click away.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: The US Virgin Islands are Saint Croix, Saint Thomas, and
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: Saint John. Enjoy one or all three and experience rich history,
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: world class cuisine, a wide variety of watersports, and the
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: most pristine beaches anywhere in the world. Go to visit
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: USVII dot com and check out the Americancribbean, where you'll
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: find all the information you need to book a trip
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: you'll never forget. Upon arrival, you'll fall naturally in rhythm
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: with the heartbeat of the islands. Travel to and from
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: New England is simple and your state will be hassle free.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: Because this is the American Caribbean. There's no passport required
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: and no money to exchange. Whether it's a romantic getaway
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: or a family vacation, make your plans now to get
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: out of the gold and head to America's Caribbean paradise.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: Go to visit USVII dot com and book your trip
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: of a lifetime today. That's visit USBI dot com.
• 39:38
  Speaker 4: To fully maximize your social security benefits, it's important to
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: understand how social security may affect your taxes.
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: HI.
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: This is Mike Armstrong from the Armstrong Advisory Group, and
• 39:47
  Speaker 4: when deciding to collect social Security benefits, it's essential to
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: consider how those benefits interact with your other income sources,
• 39:54
  Speaker 4: your tax situation, and your long term financial goals. As
• 39:57
  Speaker 4: an example, if you have tax free or after tax
• 40:00
  Speaker 4: options in retirement, you can structure your financial plan to
• 40:02
  Speaker 4: manage your future tax burden. Collecting social Security too early
• 40:06
  Speaker 4: without careful planning could limit your ability to manage taxes
• 40:09
  Speaker 4: later in life. Our new free guide is called Social
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: Security and Taxes, and it unpacks these issues and more.
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: Get your free copy today by calling eight hundred three
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  Speaker 4: nine three four zero zero one. That's eight hundred three
• 40:22
  Speaker 4: nine three four zero zero one.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: Armstrong Guide a specific financial, legal, or tax advice. Consult
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: your own financial, tax, and estate planning advisors before making
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: any investment decisions. Armstrong may contact you to offer investment
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: advisory services. Your tune to the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: If you were a loved one needs a nursing homestay,
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: call Todd right now at eight six six eight four
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: eight five six nine nine and let him make sure
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: your assets are protected. That's eight six six eight four
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: eight five six nine nine, Or visit him online at
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: Legal Exchange show dot.
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: Com welcome back into the legal exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: I'm Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group,
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: and I'm joined, of course by Todd Lutsky, a partner
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: with the law firm of Cushing and Dolan with a
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: master's in taxation. So, Todd, this month's guide is all
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: about naming your estate as the beneficiary of your IRA.
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: No, I will say that more times than not. Well,
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: we usually name the spouses the primary and then the
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: kids behind it. And I know when one's spouse dies,
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: we get the death certificate and we basically transfer the
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: balance of that IRA over to the spouse's IRA. Easy pasy,
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: just yeah, exactly, So not a new account. Just takes
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: the balance of the IRA into the spouse's account, which.
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: Is a new account. Though it's a new account in
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: the name, it.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: Goes right into their existing Irah.
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: But okay, but it's out of the old account.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly, the empty out. Let's say the husband dies,
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: we empty out the husband's the balance is poured into
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: the wifesire.
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: Close one account, open a new one.
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: This is a very different process when you name your
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: estate as the beneficiary because kind of behind the scenes,
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: you've gone through with the client and you've created this
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: while you've added the language to create a testamentary trust
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: upon the passing of the first spouse.
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: Yes, so that's like another and it happens before. Yeah,
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: so when anyone dies, we've created that in the will,
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: and that's very different. People need to understand that a
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: testamentary trust is built in to the will. So remember wills,
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: unlike regular living trusts, wills do not speak until you're dead.
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: It's almost like they don't exist, yep, until you're dead.
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: Whereas a living trust, when you created and fund it,
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: now it's working right away. This doesn't exist. So if
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: the will doesn't really speak until you're dead, this testamentary
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: trust really doesn't exist. Don't until you die and then
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: it comes to life.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: So you have taught us, and I've listened occasionally as
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: you've spoken to us over the past.
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: I know you don't even want to.
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: Say how many years that the will is the only thing,
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: the only legal document that goes to probate.
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: That that is correct.
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: So now if we're paying attention, seems to me that
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: now this IRA has to go through probate, and.
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: You are absolutely right. So if there is one negative
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: to naming the estate the IRA beneficiary right, which the
• 43:47
  Speaker 3: guide is all about, it would be that that one
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: item has to go to probate. Now, remember folks probate
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: with one item in it is fairly easy. It's not
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: a big ordeal, like if you have your entire estate
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: right going to probate. So, yes, you do need to
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: do it, but I think you will find that the
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: upside far outweighs that little downside. But you are right.
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: But from you know, kind of realistic expectations, it could
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: be nine months ish before you are actually able to
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: access that.
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: I rag, I don't know about nine months. Nine months
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: is when a tax return is due if you have one.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: But from the length of time.
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you file. You know, you come in,
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: you file the will, you got appointed PR. You know,
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: you got at least thirty days to let the errors
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: that law object to you being appointed personal representative. If
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: you're listed in the will, then you got to wait
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: for the court to call you back, say another thirty
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: plus days. You're at least ninety days. That's three months
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: anyway into this thing before you're appointed. But once you're
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: appointed PR you then have the ability to go to
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: the bank, open the account, open a trust account. You
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: have that ability. So I don't I you could be right,
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: probate could take long time, but I think with one
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: item you're gonna be able to get this.
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and maybe it's maybe I wasn't clear in saying
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: it's not necessarily just the probate process. But then once
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: you kind of have the clearance to go ahead and
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: open those accounts up, then there's another process and wherever
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: the investments are being held that their legal department looks
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: through all the stuff and finally gives the blessing and
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: lets you open those accounts. So there is some time
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: that's involved.
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: There is, there is, There is no question. But and
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: I think, folks, that's why you need to get this guide.
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: Understand why naming your estate and IRA beneficiary could be
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: very helpful to you, and not only protecting the IRA
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: from estate taxes. Right, you want to be able to
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: shelter it, not just leave it to the spouse directly.
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: You don't want to have adverse income tax consequences. And
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: if I can protect it upon the death of the
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: first spouse to die, for the surviving spouse without a
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: five year waiting period. Might want to do that and
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: you'll see how the benefits the pros and cons. Get
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: the guide folks eight six six eight four eight five
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: six nine nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com again
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: eight six six eight eight five six nine nine or
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: Legal Exchange Show dot com.
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: And it's my understanding, Todd, that you only do this
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: for married couples. Am I correct in that understanding?
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: I hate to say I have to narrow this, but yes,
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: I would narrow this to saying that if you are single,
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: probably you're not going to do this, right, you will
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: do this, not probably you wouldn't do this. You will
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: only do this if you're a married couple. Want to
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: protect from the nursing and want to protect from the
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: nursing home. Those are kind of the two prongs that
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: you need to check those boxes to see if you
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: want to do that, because remember, when you pass, you
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: want your spouse to be taken care of, and normally
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: you just name the spouse as the beneficiary. But if
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: the spouse just gets it, then it remains completely at
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: risk for the kids for her going into the nursing home,
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: which means there's less left for the kids. So if
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: adding the idea of protecting assets for the family is
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: also important to you, then you ought to check this
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: guide out yep, for sure, and then learn how to
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: leave it to the spouse, but through a will rather
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: than directly. Yeah, we're not just inheriting a spouse. We
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: still want the spouse to be the next person in
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: line to get it. Yep.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: So now husband passes away, Yes, surviving spouse is the wife.
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: This is all going on in the background. They're getting
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: everything through pre eate and set up and all that
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: good stuff.
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: Got it.
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: She is now single, So what does she have to
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: do to her IRA now that there's no spouse? Should
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: she change her beneficiaries at that point in her IRA?
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: So let's still clarify this to say there's still two
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: separate iras. There's the decedent's IRA still in existence. Yeah,
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: and there's her own personal IRA. Yes, her own personal
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: IRA as a single person, she should absolutely change the
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: designated beneficiary. And let me expand on that, because what
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: you really are trying to say here is todd When
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: they're both alive and you did the planning, Yep, both
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: of their iras are naming their respective estates, correct, Because
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: you don't know who's going to die first. So both
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: of them are naming their respective estates as beneficiaries, and
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: so they each have a testamentary trust built into their will.
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: But you're right, when one spouse dies and you've got
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: the survivor, the survivor now says no, no, no, Now,
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: you don't want to leave your estate as the primary beneficiary.
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: Now you either want to name your trust for the
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: kids or name the kids directly. Okay, that's kind of
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: what you need to do.
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: So you said you're not disinheriting the spouse by having
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: the IRA go into this testamentary trust. What kind of
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: access do they have to it?
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: Then?
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's really the biggest difference here, right, because
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: when you talk to clients and they say, you know, yeah,
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: I want my wife to get it. If you name
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: your spouse as the direct beneficiary of the IRA, it
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: just as you said, rolls over. She has complete access
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: to it income and principle, and she will take it
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: out over her lifetime. But it's at risk and not
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: sheltered for state taxes. I get it, But it avoid
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: approbate instead we name the estate. Well, the biggest concern
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: might be, yeah, I thought I can save taxes and
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: all that, but can I get it right? Yes, the
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: language in there because it went through probate, different trust
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: rules apply and she's allowed to have access through that
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: trustee for both income and principle. Unlike the Medicaid trust
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: right she can get both Okay, in conference, so she
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: can get it all great access. Folks learn how these iras.
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: Naming the IRA and a state beneficiary can offer flexibility
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: control protection that you can't get otherwise eight six six
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: eight four eight five six ninety nine or Legal Exchange
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: show dot Com.
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: Todd Letsky from the law firm of Cushing and Dolan,
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: thank you so much.
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Susan, always a pleasure.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: I'm Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group.
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: We thank you for joining us today and we'll be
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: back again next week on the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: Spouses generally serve as the beneficiary to your IRA or
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: life insurance policy, but naming your estate the beneficiary has
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: quite a few benefits. Cushing and Dolan are experts in
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: elder log and they can help you protect your assets
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: from probate and the nursing home By naming your estate
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: as a beneficiary, you can avoid the probate process, lessen
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: the chance of creating any income tax issues on your rmds,
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: and enjoy enhanced a state tax reduction. Call Cushing and
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: Dolan right now at eight six six eight four eight
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: five six nine nine and ask for their brand new
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: guide called why Name your Estate and IRA Beneficiary? Learn
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: about these benefits and others, and provide peace of mind
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: for you and your family during your retirement years. That
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: number again is eight six six eight four eight five
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: six nine nine. Or you can request the guide online
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: by visiting our website at legal exchainshow dot com. That's
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: legal exchainshow dot com. The proceeding was paid for and
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: the views expressed are solely those of Cushing and Dolan.
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan and or Armstrong Advisory may contact you
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: offering legal or investment services. Cushing and Dolan and Armstrong
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: Advisory do not endorse each other and are not affiliated.
• 52:00
  Speaker 7: According to a survey conducted by the Nationwide Retirement Institute,
• 52:03
  Speaker 7: more than two thirds of Americans say that the candidate's
• 52:06
  Speaker 7: positions on Social Security reform will influence how they vote
• 52:09
  Speaker 7: in next month's election. HI This is Chucksauta from the
• 52:12
  Speaker 7: Armstrong Advisory Group. If you're concerned about social security, call
• 52:16
  Speaker 7: us today at eight hundred three nine three for zero
• 52:19
  Speaker 7: zero one and ask for our new free guide called
• 52:21
  Speaker 7: Social Security and Taxes. Your benefits are an important piece
• 52:25
  Speaker 7: of your retirement income, so it's crucial to understand how
• 52:28
  Speaker 7: to maximize them. In this month's guide, we'll walk you
• 52:30
  Speaker 7: through everything that you should know about your social security benefits,
• 52:34
  Speaker 7: including how they may affect your taxes. Get your free
• 52:36
  Speaker 7: copy of this guide today by calling eight hundred three
• 52:39
  Speaker 7: nine three four zero zero one. That's eight hundred thirty
• 52:43
  Speaker 7: nine three four zero zero one.
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: Armstrong guide a specific financial, legal, or tax advice. Consult
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: your own financial, tax and a state planning advisors before
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: making any investment decisions. Armstrong may contact you to offer
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: investment advisory services. Fall is in full swing, the leaves
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: are changing, the days are getting shorter, and the cold
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: is anshen closer. Don't let the prospect of darkness at
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: four pm get you down, because your next incredible vacation
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: is just a click away. The US Virgin Islands are
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: Saint Croix, Saint Thomas, and Saint John. Enjoy one or
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: all three and experience rich history, world class cuisine, a
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: wide variety of watersports, and the most pristine beaches anywhere
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: in the world. Go to visit USVII dot com and
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: check out the Americancribbean, where you'll find all the information
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: you need to book a trip you'll never forget. Upon arrival,
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: you'll fall naturally in rhythm with the heartbeat of the islands.
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: Travel to and from New England is simple, and your
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: stay will be hassle free. Because this is the American Caribbean.
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: There's no passport required and no money to exchange. Whether
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: it's a romantic getaway or a family vacation, make your
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: plans now to get out of the cold and head
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: to America's Caribbean paradise. Go to visit USVII dot com
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: and book your trip of a lifetime today. That's visit
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: USVII dot com.