Latest / Hurdle with Emily Abbate / 151. Dr. Michael Gervais, High Performance Psychologist

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151. Dr. Michael Gervais, High Performance Psychologist · Hurdle with Emily Abbate

0:00
Speaker 1: So if you want to live a fulfilled life, part
0:02
Speaker 1: of that is wrestling with the hard questions in life,
0:05
Speaker 1: like what is your purpose? And if that feels too
0:08
Speaker 1: big right now, no problem, thin slice it, like, what's
0:10
Speaker 1: your purpose today? What's your purpose this week?
0:26
Speaker 2: Hey everyone, Emily a body here bringing you episode one
0:30
Speaker 2: fifty one of Hurdle, a wellness focused podcast where I
0:33
Speaker 2: sit down with inspiring individuals to talk about their big ones,
0:37
Speaker 2: tough moments, and everything in between. On the show, you
0:41
Speaker 2: can expect vulnerability, motivation, and candid discussions with everyone from
0:46
Speaker 2: top athletes and CEOs to aspiring entrepreneurs on what it
0:50
Speaker 2: really takes to follow your passions. My mission is simple
0:54
Speaker 2: to inspire you to be your best self, move with intention,
0:59
Speaker 2: and have some fun along the way. Today on the show,
1:02
Speaker 2: for episode one fifty one, I am chatting with performance
1:07
Speaker 2: psychologist doctor Michael Gervai now GERVEI. If you have not
1:11
Speaker 2: heard his name before, I would be maybe a little surprised.
1:16
Speaker 2: He has worked with some of the biggest names in sports,
1:20
Speaker 2: top athletes, actors, actresses to help them learn how to
1:25
Speaker 2: navigate their mind. I've seen him speak so many times.
1:29
Speaker 2: I'm a huge fan of his podcast called Finding Mastery,
1:32
Speaker 2: and it was really fun for today's episode to get
1:36
Speaker 2: some insight into the man that helps everyone else perform better.
1:42
Speaker 2: Doctor Gerva talks to me about his upbringing and how
1:45
Speaker 2: surfing actually was what led him into getting more interested
1:49
Speaker 2: in the mind. He talks to me about the battles
1:51
Speaker 2: that he had with his own education, being pretty unenthusiastic
1:55
Speaker 2: about the whole thing in high school, just wanting to
1:58
Speaker 2: go out, wanting to surf, and it wasn't until college
2:01
Speaker 2: when he was starting to learn about the subject areas
2:03
Speaker 2: that he was truly invested in that he was ready
2:06
Speaker 2: to grab the reins and take advantage of his own learning.
2:10
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, so many interesting topics. We talk about
2:13
Speaker 2: how to define your purpose, We talk about how to
2:15
Speaker 2: articulate your personal philosophy, how to handle these hurdles, and
2:20
Speaker 2: why these hurdles, these difficult moments in our lives, will
2:24
Speaker 2: be a good thing in the long term. And we
2:27
Speaker 2: also talk about the importance, especially right now after the
2:30
Speaker 2: year we've had, of having some grace with yourself and
2:33
Speaker 2: understanding that yes, times are hard right now, but we
2:38
Speaker 2: can do hard things if we train the mind and
2:42
Speaker 2: develop a little bit of resiliency. Seriously, this conversation it
2:47
Speaker 2: blew my mind. I was literally staring out of my
2:50
Speaker 2: apartment window for twenty to thirty minutes, just like absorbing
2:53
Speaker 2: after we were done recording. So I highly encourage you
2:57
Speaker 2: while you are listening to this, if you can have
2:59
Speaker 2: a notepad nearby, open your iPhone note app, take down
3:03
Speaker 2: some of this information because it has really been helping
3:06
Speaker 2: me ever since we recorded, and I know it's really
3:09
Speaker 2: going to give you some necessary inspiration as well. Also,
3:13
Speaker 2: I'm so amped about this. Doctor Gervai and his team
3:15
Speaker 2: are super kind. We are partnering on a giveaway which
3:18
Speaker 2: we'll go live on the Hurdle Instagram of the day.
3:21
Speaker 2: This gets released on March fifteenth, twenty twenty one. He
3:24
Speaker 2: is giving two lucky listeners a spot in his Finding
3:28
Speaker 2: Your Best course. So think of this course as a
3:32
Speaker 2: masterclass for training your mind. He created the course with
3:35
Speaker 2: NFL head coach Pete Carroll and in it you'll learn
3:38
Speaker 2: how to craft your own personal philosophy, set a vision,
3:42
Speaker 2: and how to train your mind to be more confident, optimistic,
3:46
Speaker 2: calm and mindful. So again, head on over to the
3:49
Speaker 2: Hurdle Instagram that's at Hurdle Podcasts for more details on that.
3:54
Speaker 2: Such an awesome, awesome giveaway here, Before we get into it,
3:58
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Speaker 3: Do your best thinking again.
5:30
Speaker 2: Make sure you are following Hurdle over at Hurdle podcast
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Speaker 2: on Instagram. I am over at Emilyabody and if you
5:36
Speaker 2: haven't done so yet, this would just mean the world
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Speaker 2: to me. I'm cusping two thousand newsletter subscribers.
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Speaker 3: And I want you to be one of them.
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Speaker 2: So click on over to the show notes, click on
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Speaker 2: in to subscribe to the weekly Hurdle and let me
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Speaker 2: just pop into your inbox every Friday with a little
5:53
Speaker 2: bit of inspiration. With that, let's get to hurdling.
6:13
Speaker 3: Today.
6:13
Speaker 2: I am sitting down with doctor Michael Jervai. He is
6:17
Speaker 2: a high performance psychologist and also the host of the
6:22
Speaker 2: Finding Mastery podcast. How are you doing today?
6:25
Speaker 1: Fantastic? Thank you for including me in your community in
6:29
Speaker 1: this conversation.
6:30
Speaker 3: I'm so excited to do it.
6:32
Speaker 2: As a fitness and health journalist for years now, some
6:35
Speaker 2: of my favorite writing to do has involved interviewing performance psychologists.
6:41
Speaker 2: So selfishly, I am geeked out about the opportunity to
6:44
Speaker 2: chat with you here today, but I also know just
6:46
Speaker 2: the wealth of knowledge you're going to bring to the
6:48
Speaker 2: hurdle community is something.
6:50
Speaker 3: Really special cool, Thank you for sure.
6:53
Speaker 2: So I don't think that being a performance psychologist is
6:56
Speaker 2: probably one of those careers that as a young boy,
6:59
Speaker 2: you're like, you know what I'm going to do when
7:01
Speaker 2: I grow up, I'm going to be a performance a psychologist. So,
7:05
Speaker 2: as I always like to do on the show, kick
7:07
Speaker 2: me off with talking to me a little bit about
7:09
Speaker 2: your upbringing.
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Speaker 1: When I was young, there was no such industry as
7:15
Speaker 1: sport and performance psychology. So I grew up for the
7:18
Speaker 1: first handful of years in a remote town in Virginia,
7:23
Speaker 1: no street lights, dirt roads, Gravel was a luxury on
7:28
Speaker 1: the roads. And so we're way back. My parents kind
7:30
Speaker 1: of dropped out, if you will, and wanted to build
7:33
Speaker 1: their family on a farm. And this was not a
7:36
Speaker 1: luxury farm. This is like running water was the luxury,
7:40
Speaker 1: and so at a young age, like the things that
7:43
Speaker 1: I was thinking about is I had to be home
7:46
Speaker 1: by dark because Mother Nature was a whole different animal
7:49
Speaker 1: at night. And this is like at age eight and nine,
7:52
Speaker 1: and so I was I learned so much from the
7:55
Speaker 1: roots of being connected with nature as a young kid,
7:59
Speaker 1: and I think my dad said enough of this, and
8:02
Speaker 1: he came to California when I was it's called it
8:06
Speaker 1: fourth grade and came to California and said, Okay, let's
8:09
Speaker 1: do something a little bit more sophisticated and so not
8:14
Speaker 1: that there's anything wrong with dropping out and you know,
8:16
Speaker 1: building a life on a farm. And so he got
8:18
Speaker 1: a corporate job, if you will, in sales. I was
8:21
Speaker 1: thrust it into the city life, and I didn't quite
8:25
Speaker 1: fit in with traditional stick and ball sports, and so
8:31
Speaker 1: again I was like, okay, well, what is the thing
8:35
Speaker 1: that I'm more interested in? Because I came from this
8:37
Speaker 1: natural world and mother nature and all that stuff, and
8:40
Speaker 1: so I was naturally attracted to action sports. And so
8:45
Speaker 1: action sports in California are like surfing, skateboarding, motocross, BMX,
8:49
Speaker 1: like that stuff where there's some connection to mother Nature.
8:53
Speaker 1: But the real deeper connection was there wasn't a set
8:58
Speaker 1: of arbitrary rules and artificial coaching, and it just was
9:02
Speaker 1: pure because if you made a mistake, you'd leave a
9:04
Speaker 1: little skin on the asphalt. If you made a mistake,
9:06
Speaker 1: you get held under you know, a wave longer than
9:09
Speaker 1: you know you thought you could do. And so there's
9:12
Speaker 1: a real tolerance for risk taking slash material consequences when
9:17
Speaker 1: you make a mistake. And there wasn't these adults hovering over,
9:20
Speaker 1: you know, yelling and shouting, and I thought, as a kid, like,
9:23
Speaker 1: this is weird. This is really bizarre. And so what
9:27
Speaker 1: ended up bringing me to sports psychology though, was in surfing.
9:32
Speaker 1: There's two types of surfing. There's free surfing and competitive surfing.
9:36
Speaker 1: And free surfing is like what you do with you know,
9:40
Speaker 1: I say this in a in a gender biased way
9:43
Speaker 1: because we didn't I didn't know any females that were surfing.
9:45
Speaker 1: But what you do with the boys and and free surfing.
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Speaker 3: I could do it.
9:49
Speaker 1: I could get it done. It was awesome. No one's looking.
9:52
Speaker 1: You just kind of go into the scariest part of
9:55
Speaker 1: the heaviest part of a wave and you don't tell
9:57
Speaker 1: anyone about it. You experience it. But then come competition
10:01
Speaker 1: when there's people on the beach, and there's judges and
10:04
Speaker 1: family and friends, and there's people scoring and critiquing. I
10:07
Speaker 1: was a disaster. So I didn't have the psychology to
10:11
Speaker 1: take what I could do into a moment that became
10:15
Speaker 1: too big for me, which was a competition. And that's
10:18
Speaker 1: where a competitor said to me one day, ader Vay,
10:22
Speaker 1: I serve with you every day. He was older than me.
10:25
Speaker 1: I serve with you every day. You should be mopping
10:27
Speaker 1: up everybody out here. But you got to stop thinking
10:30
Speaker 1: about what could go wrong. I thought, how does he know?
10:34
Speaker 1: How does he know what's in mind? You know, that's
10:37
Speaker 1: all I'm thinking about, all the things that could go wrong.
10:40
Speaker 1: And then he paddled off. You know, he beat me
10:42
Speaker 1: in that heat because now he's in my head. But
10:44
Speaker 1: what I figured out was that I could use my mind.
10:50
Speaker 1: I could There's a way that I could use my
10:52
Speaker 1: mind to help me do what I wanted to do.
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Speaker 1: And I wasn't And so I didn't know what psychology was.
11:00
Speaker 1: As fifteen years old, I didn't know what it was.
11:03
Speaker 1: And long story getting a little bit shorter here is
11:07
Speaker 1: that I fell in love when I got to college.
11:12
Speaker 1: Eventually got to college. That's a whole different story. But
11:15
Speaker 1: I fell in love with the world of the invisible,
11:19
Speaker 1: and I didn't know anybody in my family that went
11:21
Speaker 1: to college. I certainly didn't know anyone that had a PhD.
11:25
Speaker 1: And so what accidentally happened is three professors, and I
11:29
Speaker 1: love bringing up their names, if you allow me, please,
11:32
Speaker 1: doctor Zenka, doctor Perkins, and doctor Cuzio, a philosopher, a theologian,
11:37
Speaker 1: and a psychologist. And they were best friends. Great names
11:40
Speaker 1: I Zanka and Cuzio and Perkins. So they were best buds.
11:45
Speaker 1: And they saw me coming like this, you know, full
11:50
Speaker 1: of energy but clueless kid that had no real direction
11:55
Speaker 1: and all he wanted to do was break rules and
11:59
Speaker 1: be counterculture and quote unquote get after it in life.
12:03
Speaker 1: I didn't know what that really meant, but they saw
12:05
Speaker 1: that coming in they said, hey, listen, let me introduce
12:08
Speaker 1: you to this beautiful world of the invisible. And it
12:11
Speaker 1: lit me on fire and set me down this path
12:13
Speaker 1: that I just wanted to learn more and more and
12:15
Speaker 1: more and more. And that's kind of how it happened.
12:18
Speaker 2: Talk to me about the reference to eventually getting to college.
12:24
Speaker 1: High school was an adventure and so yeah, I mean
12:29
Speaker 1: I had a lot of fun. I didn't take school seriously.
12:33
Speaker 1: I was in the water a lot surfing, and you know,
12:39
Speaker 1: I got it. Was my senior year in high school.
12:41
Speaker 1: My parents pulled me aside and it was a you know,
12:44
Speaker 1: southern California, a beautiful sunny day, and my mom says, hey,
12:48
Speaker 1: we tried, because they didn't go to college, you know,
12:50
Speaker 1: but hey, we tried, and you got a zero on
12:54
Speaker 1: your p SAT. You got a zero on your SAT
12:58
Speaker 1: and it's because I ditched. I went surfing. And they said,
13:02
Speaker 1: you've got a choice to make now. Either you got
13:04
Speaker 1: to get a job and get out, or you can
13:07
Speaker 1: go to community college and you can stay here. And
13:10
Speaker 1: I was like, community college, Wait, these are bad choices.
13:14
Speaker 1: I'm not ready to kind of go become self sufficient.
13:18
Speaker 1: I'm not ready for that. But I know how to
13:19
Speaker 1: actually go to school, play the game a little bit,
13:21
Speaker 1: and keep surfing. So let me just do that. And
13:24
Speaker 1: that's accidentally how I got into college. And it was
13:27
Speaker 1: never part of the design. And so I mean, I'll
13:31
Speaker 1: spare some of the details, but college was meaningful. High
13:34
Speaker 1: school was fun.
13:36
Speaker 2: Got it, Okay, So when your learning starts to get meaningful,
13:41
Speaker 2: talk to me about kind of the switch of gears
13:45
Speaker 2: that must happen in your head because as someone again,
13:49
Speaker 2: high school was fun. I can't imagine that until you
13:52
Speaker 2: really started to think to yourself, like, wow, I'm actually
13:55
Speaker 2: really interested in this material and understand that you could
13:59
Speaker 2: do something with that material. Did that experience become something
14:03
Speaker 2: that to you felt worthwhile?
14:06
Speaker 1: Well? Right? You know, if you look at pop psychology,
14:09
Speaker 1: you'll read things or hear about things like you got
14:12
Speaker 1: to have a vision in your life, and I will
14:15
Speaker 1: talk about the science and the art of vision, because
14:17
Speaker 1: there's some important stuff there, and you got to have
14:18
Speaker 1: big goals and audacious whatever. I don't know, I know
14:23
Speaker 1: the science there, but that was not true for me.
14:25
Speaker 1: What was true for me is that I was in
14:29
Speaker 1: conversation and reading things that were illuminating, and I never
14:33
Speaker 1: thought that if I read this book later one day,
14:36
Speaker 1: maybe I wanted to read this book and understand it
14:38
Speaker 1: so I could run back and have a conversation with
14:40
Speaker 1: somebody who really understood it, the professor or the other
14:43
Speaker 1: kids in the class that were trying to wrestle with it,
14:45
Speaker 1: because it lit me up. And so it was never
14:49
Speaker 1: for later. It was for the purity of it. And
14:52
Speaker 1: that's Actually, what action sports will teach you is that
14:55
Speaker 1: if you're not completely absorbed in present here now, the
14:58
Speaker 1: consequences are too great. So like, be about it and
15:02
Speaker 1: then let me pull back one more layer. I think
15:04
Speaker 1: this is materially important in where we might go in
15:07
Speaker 1: this conversation. Is that when I would walk from school
15:13
Speaker 1: to home and we lived next to the ocean, I
15:16
Speaker 1: would walk. I've never talked to anyone about this, but
15:19
Speaker 1: i would walk down the street and I'd look at
15:21
Speaker 1: a hedge and as I'm walking, I'm looking at the hedge,
15:24
Speaker 1: like how I'm going to surf off that hedge as
15:26
Speaker 1: if it was a real wave. I was obsessed with
15:29
Speaker 1: trying to get better, to ready myself for the next challenge,
15:34
Speaker 1: because the next challenge, if I really push myself, could
15:36
Speaker 1: be dangerous. And so the same was true in school.
15:42
Speaker 1: I was readying myself to understand it better, but not
15:45
Speaker 1: for later. Really it was because I loved what the
15:48
Speaker 1: way it felt to get better, and so so anyways,
15:54
Speaker 1: that's kind of the obsession that sometimes I think is required.
15:57
Speaker 1: That I don't wish really on people to explore their potential.
16:02
Speaker 1: There's a dark side that we could maybe benefit talking about.
16:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you mentioned the art of visioning and
16:09
Speaker 2: like thinking about what it is that you want, and
16:11
Speaker 2: obviously for your example of like looking at the hedge
16:14
Speaker 2: and focusing on the hedge and thinking about what could
16:16
Speaker 2: happen if you had to surf on the hedge, you know,
16:19
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people.
16:20
Speaker 1: Sorry, I was seeing the hedge as if it was
16:22
Speaker 1: a wave. So it was a way to do like imagery,
16:25
Speaker 1: like using that as a placeholder for a big wave.
16:28
Speaker 2: Sorry, yeah, no, no, no, it's fine. I appreciate the
16:31
Speaker 2: I appreciate the explanation. So let's talk a little bit
16:34
Speaker 2: about that concept of visioning and of thinking about or
16:40
Speaker 2: picturing where it is that you think you could go
16:44
Speaker 2: or what you would do. For so many people, they
16:47
Speaker 2: can think those things, but then, as I'm sure you've
16:51
Speaker 2: experienced in your work and in your conversations, there can
16:56
Speaker 2: be a large disconnect between thinking about it and then
17:00
Speaker 2: actually like thinking about how you can make that thing
17:03
Speaker 2: that you're thinking about happen.
17:06
Speaker 1: Right on, And I I just want to I want
17:11
Speaker 1: to remind people. So I've studied, you know, to the
17:15
Speaker 1: edges of psychology and the psychology of excellence, like how
17:19
Speaker 1: the extraordinaries, work from a rigor of research and academic
17:24
Speaker 1: you know training, as well as being in the amphitheater
17:28
Speaker 1: in some of the most extraordinary you know organizations. I'd
17:32
Speaker 1: love to tell some of those stories, but I just
17:35
Speaker 1: want to remind or kind of level set that I
17:38
Speaker 1: don't know. I think people are struggling in life right now.
17:43
Speaker 1: I know that to be true. And just because you
17:46
Speaker 1: don't know exactly what you want your future to be
17:48
Speaker 1: right now, it's okay. I never did, and I love
17:52
Speaker 1: my life like materially love my life, and I never
17:56
Speaker 1: thought that. I didn't even know there was an industry
17:58
Speaker 1: that I'm in right now, and so I just want
18:02
Speaker 1: to kind of help build some space to say, you know,
18:06
Speaker 1: right now is hard, and we can thin slice your
18:10
Speaker 1: vision of the man, woman person you want to be,
18:15
Speaker 1: thin slice it to like today or this week, or
18:19
Speaker 1: this month or this quarter, you know, like we can
18:22
Speaker 1: thin slice it, because I think it starts to really
18:25
Speaker 1: freak people out when we say, well, what is your
18:27
Speaker 1: life purpose? And now that's a big question. I asked
18:30
Speaker 1: that to just about everybody, but I want to do
18:32
Speaker 1: it in a way that is respectful to I'm trying
18:35
Speaker 1: to keep my head above water, dude. You know, like right,
18:39
Speaker 1: let's start there. Let's thin slice. What's your purpose today?
18:42
Speaker 3: I love that terminology. Thin slice.
18:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh, it's everything we can do right now, you know,
18:49
Speaker 1: because of the radical change that's taking place. Unless unless
18:54
Speaker 1: you have conditioned and trained your mind to manage uncertainty,
18:58
Speaker 1: to manage unknown And I think what twenty twenty has
19:03
Speaker 1: shown us unpleasantly so is that, let's just talk about
19:08
Speaker 1: North America for a minute. We are not prepared to
19:11
Speaker 1: deal with both chronic stress and acute stress. Before twenty twenty.
19:16
Speaker 1: We're barely keeping it together because the chronic stress was real.
19:20
Speaker 1: And the idea about hustle hard, are you kidding me?
19:24
Speaker 1: That is not how this works. Hustle hard. I'm sorry
19:27
Speaker 1: if you kind of ascribe to it, but it's so
19:30
Speaker 1: broken because in the world stage, we don't talk about
19:34
Speaker 1: working hard. We're talking about recovering intelligently. Everybody works hard.
19:39
Speaker 1: So if you've got to tell someone to work hard,
19:41
Speaker 1: there's a flaw somewhere. It's like something else that I
19:44
Speaker 1: can talk about from a psychological perspective, But it's recovering intelligently.
19:48
Speaker 1: It's training your mind so that when you are in
19:50
Speaker 1: the thick of stuff, you know how to use the
19:53
Speaker 1: right amount of attentional focus to get the thing done,
19:57
Speaker 1: and no more, no less, to get to the edges
20:01
Speaker 1: every day of your capacity is how you make you.
20:05
Speaker 1: And if you're fatigued and tired and scared, you don't
20:08
Speaker 1: run to the edges. But the best in the world,
20:11
Speaker 1: athletes and entertainers, executives like they run to the edge
20:15
Speaker 1: every day and intelligently recover, run to the edge again,
20:18
Speaker 1: fegure out what they need to learn and then recover.
20:20
Speaker 1: And so we talk more about recovery than we do about,
20:23
Speaker 1: you know, working hard. How does that all relate to purpose?
20:27
Speaker 1: Twenty twenty showed us that we are not properly trained,
20:29
Speaker 1: Our mind is not properly trained. And I'd love to
20:33
Speaker 1: talk a little bit more about that with you.
20:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I would love to hear more about that.
20:37
Speaker 2: I think for someone listening to this, their first follow
20:40
Speaker 2: up question, and my first follow up question would be
20:43
Speaker 2: how do I start training? Aside from, of course, as
20:46
Speaker 2: we all have over the past year, like kind of
20:48
Speaker 2: being thrown into the waters.
20:50
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, So let's just pull back the curtain one
20:54
Speaker 1: more level. Here is that there's two ways to think
20:56
Speaker 1: about psychology. Okay, so the psychology of excellence, certainly, one
21:02
Speaker 1: is the path of self discovery okay, and then the
21:06
Speaker 1: second are the mental skills so that you can be
21:08
Speaker 1: about it more often. So the first things is like
21:12
Speaker 1: a series of practices, and I can walk you through
21:16
Speaker 1: all of them. It's not complicated, but like, who are you?
21:19
Speaker 1: What is your purpose? What are the goals that are
21:21
Speaker 1: going to help you live align to that purpose? Back
21:25
Speaker 1: to the vision word, like what does it look and
21:27
Speaker 1: feel like when it's all on point? And so there's
21:30
Speaker 1: a whole path of self discovery. And I'll pin that
21:34
Speaker 1: for just a moment. Because Harvard did a seventy five
21:37
Speaker 1: year study, a longitudinal study across people's life, and they
21:42
Speaker 1: wanted to understand fulfillment. So they measured these people for
21:46
Speaker 1: seventy five years and at the end they said were
21:48
Speaker 1: you fulfilled? And whatever percentage said yes and the other
21:52
Speaker 1: percentage said no. Then the people that said yes, they
21:55
Speaker 1: asked them, so you report that you had to fulfilled life,
21:59
Speaker 1: how does that happen them? And one of the key takeaways,
22:02
Speaker 1: there's three big ones, but one of the key takeaways
22:05
Speaker 1: is that they wrestled with the deep questions of life.
22:10
Speaker 1: So if you want to live a fulfilled life, part
22:12
Speaker 1: of that is wrestling with the hard questions in life,
22:15
Speaker 1: like what is your purpose? And back to our early part.
22:18
Speaker 1: If that feels too big right now, no problem, thin
22:20
Speaker 1: slice it, like what's your purpose today? You know, what's
22:23
Speaker 1: your purpose this week?
22:25
Speaker 2: Well, that's exactly what I was going to say here
22:27
Speaker 2: is that I think for a lot of people that
22:29
Speaker 2: kind of question, what is your purpose? It's like WHOA,
22:33
Speaker 2: I don't even know where to start or how to
22:36
Speaker 2: articulate that. So do you have you know, any words
22:40
Speaker 2: of wisdom of how to thin slice a question like that.
22:44
Speaker 1: Yeah. According to science, there's three parts to purpose. So
22:50
Speaker 1: research suggests that people that wrestle with purpose and can
22:52
Speaker 1: articulate it, there's three main themes. The first is nobody
22:57
Speaker 1: can give you yours. It has to matter to you,
23:00
Speaker 1: and so it's called personal meaning. So that's the responsibility
23:06
Speaker 1: I think to be an adult, what is my purpose
23:10
Speaker 1: in life? And if it doesn't matter to you, it's
23:12
Speaker 1: not real. Again, nobody can give it to you. Okay,
23:15
Speaker 1: So that's one. The second is it's bigger than you,
23:20
Speaker 1: So true purpose these people that are fulfilled and have
23:22
Speaker 1: purpose in their life. It's something grander than themselves. So
23:25
Speaker 1: it's not the purpose of like getting paid. It's maybe
23:28
Speaker 1: getting paid for because I can or we can, but
23:32
Speaker 1: there's something larger than one's own needs being taken care of.
23:35
Speaker 1: And then the third is it's future oriented, so there's
23:39
Speaker 1: a down the path type of thinking about purpose right
23:44
Speaker 1: for life purpose, so it's bigger than bigger than you,
23:48
Speaker 1: and it requires time to materially move toward. So those
23:52
Speaker 1: are three components, and how do you do it? You
23:54
Speaker 1: write it down. There's three ways, a couple threes here,
23:57
Speaker 1: back to back, but there's three ways. Right, write some
23:59
Speaker 1: stuff down, speak to people that have wisdom, you know
24:04
Speaker 1: that are in your community, whether it's a psychologist or
24:07
Speaker 1: you know, a preacher or a rabbi or whatever it
24:10
Speaker 1: might be. And then the third is to investigate in
24:14
Speaker 1: a practice of mindfulness where you're really listening and understanding
24:20
Speaker 1: that your inner nature, like the thoughts and how they
24:23
Speaker 1: relate to your emotions, and when you wrestle with ideas,
24:26
Speaker 1: what happens internally. So those are three meditation conversations with
24:32
Speaker 1: wisdom and then writing to be true?
24:36
Speaker 3: What is your purpose.
24:39
Speaker 1: Oh I haven't done. No, I'm joking.
24:41
Speaker 3: It's a lot of can you even imagine?
24:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh my god, I shouldn't answer that. Yeah, So
24:48
Speaker 1: I'll say that it changed about ten years ago, and
24:52
Speaker 1: so I can tell you my first one, but then
24:53
Speaker 1: it's changed. It's very clear for the last ten years.
24:56
Speaker 1: It's to help people live in the present moment more often.
25:00
Speaker 1: And the reason that is I light up when I
25:04
Speaker 1: even say it and think about it, thank you for asking,
25:07
Speaker 1: is because the present moment is where wisdom is revealed.
25:12
Speaker 1: It is where high performance is expressed. So there's like,
25:14
Speaker 1: that's the world I'm in. So the present moment is
25:17
Speaker 1: where wisdom is revealed, high performance is expressed, and all
25:21
Speaker 1: things that are true, beautiful, good, and amazing are experienced.
25:25
Speaker 1: And so the present moment is where we meet ourselves.
25:30
Speaker 1: And so if I can help people by training their
25:32
Speaker 1: mind live in the present moment more often, I think
25:34
Speaker 1: that we begin to reimagine humanity. We get to reimagine
25:39
Speaker 1: what it means to be fully alive, working towards the
25:43
Speaker 1: capacity of our collective potential. And that's not going to
25:47
Speaker 1: happen unless we spend more time in the present. But
25:50
Speaker 1: we're so busy worrying about later and worrying about what
25:53
Speaker 1: had happened, that we're missing even glimpses of the present
25:56
Speaker 1: moment throughout the day because we're busy, busy, busy, hustle, hustle, hustle,
26:00
Speaker 1: that we're not dropped in to meet the demands of
26:04
Speaker 1: this moment in a squared up, shouldered way, because it
26:08
Speaker 1: takes everything that you have to meet the demands of moments,
26:11
Speaker 1: because our mind wants to check out to try to
26:13
Speaker 1: solve danger as opposed to be fluid with the risk
26:17
Speaker 1: that is unfolding right now. And that risk for you
26:20
Speaker 1: and me is neither of us know what's about to happen.
26:23
Speaker 1: And so if we can trust enough by training our minds,
26:25
Speaker 1: if we can trust enough that we can meet the
26:27
Speaker 1: new demand, then we can kind of go, oh, let
26:30
Speaker 1: me enjoy this life, this unfolding moment to moment life.
26:34
Speaker 2: For those that have a problem managing the chaos, for
26:39
Speaker 2: those that are in a similar circumstance, or or find
26:43
Speaker 2: themselves in this circumstance where they can't focus on the
26:47
Speaker 2: now because they have so much anxiety or worry about
26:50
Speaker 2: what is next, how do you advise that they get
26:54
Speaker 2: to this place where they're better equipped to handle the now.
26:58
Speaker 1: That's where mental training comes in. And so what you're
27:01
Speaker 1: describing is like there's ranges you know, clinical anxiety to
27:06
Speaker 1: excessive worry to something smaller than that, which would be
27:11
Speaker 1: you know, like I kind of worry about things, or
27:13
Speaker 1: my mind is a little easily distracted. So depending on
27:16
Speaker 1: where somebody is on a spectrum that we would suggest,
27:20
Speaker 1: you know, heavy lifting or lightlifting, but the lifting is
27:23
Speaker 1: going to be mindfulness will be part of the lifting.
27:26
Speaker 1: Breathing training will be another part of the lift. Awareness
27:30
Speaker 1: of your inner dialogue so that you can adjust and
27:33
Speaker 1: come return back to now is the essence of one
27:37
Speaker 1: of the cornerstones of mindfulness. So you become aware of
27:40
Speaker 1: your inner life, your thoughts and emotions, and so that
27:42
Speaker 1: you can pivot and come back to now, come back again,
27:46
Speaker 1: and come back again. And we can double click on
27:48
Speaker 1: that for sure. And then the other some sort of
27:50
Speaker 1: breathing mechanism or breathing training so that when your body activates,
27:55
Speaker 1: because your brain's job is to scan the world and
27:57
Speaker 1: find the dangers. Its job, and if you don't use
28:02
Speaker 1: your mind to work with the brain again, the brain's
28:06
Speaker 1: job is to scan the world to find danger and
28:09
Speaker 1: to either fight or run away. But the mind's job
28:13
Speaker 1: is to be the software that is governing and guiding
28:16
Speaker 1: that brain's dictum for survival primarily. And I'm oversimplifying a
28:22
Speaker 1: very beautiful hand and glove interaction between software hardware that
28:26
Speaker 1: is so complicated. We struggle with analogies you know of
28:29
Speaker 1: how it really works, But the mind can be It's
28:33
Speaker 1: a software that can be upgraded. And you know, I mean,
28:36
Speaker 1: who trained your mind? Out of curiosity?
28:39
Speaker 3: Who trains my mind?
28:41
Speaker 1: Who trained your mind? Because you're operating at a certain
28:45
Speaker 1: with a certain system, You've got to what version would
28:48
Speaker 1: you say you are of yourself.
28:52
Speaker 2: If I had to take a step back and really
28:54
Speaker 2: think about it. And it's interesting to me to hear
28:58
Speaker 2: you say that the spectrum, because I certainly used to
29:03
Speaker 2: be a person who didn't navigate frequent anxiety very well.
29:08
Speaker 2: And I have found, especially over the past year, that
29:13
Speaker 2: through defining my purpose, integrating more mindfulness into my regular routine,
29:19
Speaker 2: doing more meditation and breath work, I have been able
29:23
Speaker 2: to tap in to an ability that the old Emily.
29:28
Speaker 2: And I'm not exactly sure if I can give you
29:30
Speaker 2: what level we're on now, But an older version of
29:33
Speaker 2: myself certainly didn't even think was possible for her. Now
29:38
Speaker 2: does that mean that I feel as though I never
29:42
Speaker 2: feel like her?
29:43
Speaker 3: Sometimes?
29:44
Speaker 2: Of course not, But it does mean that now I've
29:47
Speaker 2: seen the other side of the coin, so to speak,
29:50
Speaker 2: and I feel more empowered to come back to calm
29:54
Speaker 2: in circumstances that before I didn't think was possible.
29:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it. Now call out an upgrade. You know.
30:01
Speaker 1: It could be a minor upgrade or a major upgrade
30:03
Speaker 1: to be determined. But to get to the upgrades we do,
30:08
Speaker 1: it does require some programming, and I'm over using the
30:11
Speaker 1: analogy right now, but mental training is the way that
30:14
Speaker 1: you can upgrade the software. So confidence is a skill.
30:18
Speaker 1: How about that? You know? I would I bet quite
30:21
Speaker 1: a bit of money that unless you went out and
30:23
Speaker 1: looked for it, nobody has taught you how to train
30:27
Speaker 1: your mind. Like it didn't happen in grade school or
30:28
Speaker 1: high school or college. So we have to go to
30:31
Speaker 1: a shrink. Coaches really don't know, you know, I love coaches,
30:35
Speaker 1: It's the world I live in. But they say, hey,
30:36
Speaker 1: come on, you should be confident. Won't show me how
30:40
Speaker 1: you know? Like I show me how. So it's a
30:43
Speaker 1: trainable skill. Did anybody show you the mechanics of confidence?
30:48
Speaker 1: Have you been trained?
30:49
Speaker 3: Not specifically?
30:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll talk. We can talk about that some other time.
30:56
Speaker 1: What do you mean by yeah? Yeah? So how do
30:59
Speaker 1: you train? So it comes from only one place, which
31:04
Speaker 1: is what you say to yourself. But what you say
31:06
Speaker 1: to yourself must be credible. And so to speak credibly
31:11
Speaker 1: to yourself about yourself relative to what you think the
31:16
Speaker 1: demands are that are coming. So confidence is a state
31:20
Speaker 1: specific experience. So it's moment to moment really, and if
31:26
Speaker 1: you have the inner mechanisms to speak to yourself a
31:28
Speaker 1: certain way about your skills relative to the perceived demand,
31:33
Speaker 1: you're going to figure it out. But to speak to
31:35
Speaker 1: yourself in a way that has credibility, you have to
31:39
Speaker 1: have done really hard things in your life. And so
31:43
Speaker 1: what happens for most people is when they feel a
31:45
Speaker 1: bit anxious, so their heart ticks up a little bit,
31:48
Speaker 1: their breathing changes, they start to see the dangers in
31:51
Speaker 1: the world. Is instantly the mind the software goes to, oh, well,
31:57
Speaker 1: this is big, feel me like I'm I'm over, my
32:02
Speaker 1: cup is spilling over, like I'm kind of a mess
32:05
Speaker 1: as opposed to instantly going to like, oh wait, I'm
32:08
Speaker 1: built for hard things. I've done A and B and C,
32:11
Speaker 1: and look i can do A. I think I can
32:14
Speaker 1: do B, and I'm definitely going to knock down C.
32:16
Speaker 1: But that's training. Training, you know, to know in your
32:21
Speaker 1: history what gives you the right to say something like
32:23
Speaker 1: I can do hard things? So how do you do it?
32:25
Speaker 1: You got to write it down, You got to practice,
32:29
Speaker 1: you know, just like it sounds mechanical, emily, but it's
32:32
Speaker 1: sets and reps, you know. And I think behind you
32:35
Speaker 1: you've got like times.
32:37
Speaker 3: Yeah, behind me, I've got some some marathon time posters.
32:41
Speaker 1: Okay, who's are they?
32:43
Speaker 3: That their mind?
32:46
Speaker 1: So so you know what sets and reps are about,
32:49
Speaker 1: you know, and like there's no way to really get
32:50
Speaker 1: better without true sets and reps. And so training your
32:54
Speaker 1: mind to know the types of thinking that it's credible
32:58
Speaker 1: that will help you is how you get to the
33:00
Speaker 1: ability to be consistent with confidence, not arrogant, not naive
33:06
Speaker 1: confidence like boastful confidence, but true, grounded like now I
33:10
Speaker 1: know how to relate to the challenge ahead.
33:20
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36:24
Speaker 2: Talk to me about the evolution of your confidence going
36:27
Speaker 2: through college, getting to a point where you were getting
36:30
Speaker 2: more interested in your studies, and coming to a place
36:33
Speaker 2: where you started to recognize, Hey, I think I could
36:39
Speaker 2: be good at life doing something with this material that
36:43
Speaker 2: I'm learning about.
36:44
Speaker 1: Well, I didn't understand confidence when I was in high school.
36:47
Speaker 1: That's kind of what happened to me and surfing is
36:50
Speaker 1: that I was a mess because I did know how
36:51
Speaker 1: to speak to myself properly. That would build and I'll
36:54
Speaker 1: just oversimplify. There's there's really an oversimplification. There's two types
36:58
Speaker 1: of thoughts, thoughts that space and build, and thoughts that
37:02
Speaker 1: can strict and tighten up. Oversimplifying. But so I didn't
37:06
Speaker 1: even understand that basic framework and so I left my
37:10
Speaker 1: inner experience to what other people might be thinking of me.
37:17
Speaker 1: How dangerous is that? So fear of other people's opinions?
37:23
Speaker 1: Call it fopo. You've heard of yolo and fomo, right,
37:26
Speaker 1: So faupo, I think, is the great constrictor of human
37:30
Speaker 1: potential in modern times, fearing other people's opinions. So that's
37:35
Speaker 1: what I was leaving my internal state too, what others
37:40
Speaker 1: might think of me. And so when did that change?
37:45
Speaker 1: When I got sick and tired of being at the
37:48
Speaker 1: whips end of my environment, when I was fatigued as
37:52
Speaker 1: a man saying why do I feel this way? I'm
37:55
Speaker 1: trying to present myself a certain way, but really inside
37:58
Speaker 1: it doesn't really match. So this was like early thirties
38:01
Speaker 1: for me, and I said, I'm done with that, like
38:05
Speaker 1: what there's and I was studying it, you know, I
38:09
Speaker 1: was just finishing up my PhD. And there was a
38:12
Speaker 1: moment when I hadn't yet graduated. There was an international
38:17
Speaker 1: conference that I was speaking at and it was my
38:20
Speaker 1: first international conference, and I was kind of changing or
38:23
Speaker 1: challenging grounded theory in the field. And you could see
38:27
Speaker 1: and feel I was backstage with a friend of mine
38:30
Speaker 1: and the dean of my school. And you could feel
38:33
Speaker 1: the energy kind of filling up the hall, and you
38:35
Speaker 1: could hear the you know that it was multiple hundreds,
38:39
Speaker 1: maybe thousands, I don't know. It's a little foggy to
38:41
Speaker 1: me now, but it was a large room. And I
38:45
Speaker 1: was feeling good, like I was feeling really good. And
38:49
Speaker 1: I've got my suit on. It's like the first time
38:51
Speaker 1: I had a suit other than a wedding or a
38:52
Speaker 1: funeral or something. You know, I'm zero professionalism. I printed
38:56
Speaker 1: business cards just for this thing. And and so I'm ready.
39:01
Speaker 1: I'm feeling great about going up there. And it's about
39:05
Speaker 1: five minutes before and my buddy nudges me backstage and
39:09
Speaker 1: he goes, hey, look in the front row. So I
39:10
Speaker 1: kind of peeked me through the corner and I look,
39:13
Speaker 1: and there's a gentleman and I go, oh, my, is
39:15
Speaker 1: that him the person I was challenging the theory? And
39:19
Speaker 1: I looked at my buddy and my eyes got big
39:21
Speaker 1: English yep, And I look back and he grew like
39:25
Speaker 1: to nine feet tall, you know, five hundred and fifty pounds.
39:28
Speaker 1: Like he just looked like he was this massive human
39:31
Speaker 1: that was pissed off Okay, so it was not really,
39:34
Speaker 1: but you know what I mean. So I instantly went
39:37
Speaker 1: into a state of panic. And so here's the dialogue.
39:42
Speaker 1: Oh god, they're going to find out. Everyone here is
39:45
Speaker 1: going to find out that I don't. I'm bullshitting, I don't.
39:48
Speaker 1: Oh god, they're going to find out. And so, you know,
39:53
Speaker 1: imposter syndrome full effect, like objectively I did. I really
39:58
Speaker 1: do know. I knew my stuff. This is no different
40:00
Speaker 1: than when I was fifteen. And now I'm thirty something,
40:02
Speaker 1: and it's like or just before thirty. And so I
40:06
Speaker 1: started to hit the panic button. My body temperature heated up.
40:09
Speaker 1: There's a beat of sweat down my back. My forehead
40:12
Speaker 1: started to kind of blister with some sweat. I've got
40:14
Speaker 1: a little tremor. Now my breathing's changing, my heart's ticking up.
40:18
Speaker 1: I look down at my business card and I'm trying
40:20
Speaker 1: to keep it cool. I looked down at my business
40:22
Speaker 1: card and I realized that I didn't put my email
40:24
Speaker 1: address on it. This is like, you know, twenty years ago,
40:28
Speaker 1: and I'm like, again, I use that to go, oh god,
40:33
Speaker 1: I'm such a rookie, and I'm now I'm trying to
40:35
Speaker 1: write my business my email on the back of my
40:37
Speaker 1: bit and my handshaking, and I'm looking at the card
40:40
Speaker 1: and my visual space shial is all wrong. So I'm
40:43
Speaker 1: like writing down the side of the card trying to
40:44
Speaker 1: fit it all in. And these are all things that
40:47
Speaker 1: I'm using to tighten up further. And so I realized,
40:53
Speaker 1: and so here's the other narrative, like, oh my god,
40:55
Speaker 1: I'm supposed to be talking about like being present and
40:59
Speaker 1: confidence and I'm a mess, you know. So it's all
41:02
Speaker 1: that stuff that's wrapped up. If I can't even talk
41:04
Speaker 1: about her to live it like what a phony. And
41:06
Speaker 1: so so I realized at that moment, there's no way
41:09
Speaker 1: around it. You gotta go through it. You gotta do
41:10
Speaker 1: the fundamental work. And I thought I was doing it,
41:13
Speaker 1: but I was bullshitting myself. And so that moment changed me.
41:17
Speaker 1: And so thank you for telling that story. It's a
41:20
Speaker 1: long story, but it changed me.
41:23
Speaker 3: And what happened, I mean, did you go on the stage.
41:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I'm I just geala one to ten. Ten
41:29
Speaker 1: is like I just threw up in my mouth and
41:31
Speaker 1: a five is the sweet spot, you know, or really
41:33
Speaker 1: like the porridge is just right, it's not too hot,
41:36
Speaker 1: too cold, and I was at like a nine and
41:39
Speaker 1: a half just right before it. And funny thing is is,
41:43
Speaker 1: as I was writing, I'm trying to play it cool
41:46
Speaker 1: because I don't I didn't want my buddy to think
41:48
Speaker 1: I was a mess, you know, even though that's what
41:51
Speaker 1: friends are four, you know, like, but he was, you know,
41:54
Speaker 1: he was loving that. I was kind of like freaking
41:56
Speaker 1: out a little bit because he could kind of tell.
41:58
Speaker 1: And I started when I was writing my my I
42:00
Speaker 1: just was focusing on getting my name squared up, so
42:06
Speaker 1: it required a deep focus and so I was just
42:08
Speaker 1: getting that right, trying to have a clear kind of
42:11
Speaker 1: penmanship on it, and that actually materially was gating out
42:15
Speaker 1: all of the danger. It was gating out all of
42:17
Speaker 1: the anxiety, all the worry, all the shitty self talk,
42:21
Speaker 1: and so it was just a deep focus that I
42:23
Speaker 1: was on and I'm trying to breathe the whole time.
42:25
Speaker 1: And then it started clicking. So probably like forty seconds
42:31
Speaker 1: to go. Thirty seconds ago, my buddy notices that I'm
42:34
Speaker 1: still writing on my cards and he nudges me again.
42:37
Speaker 1: He's like, dude, you get ready now, And I kind
42:40
Speaker 1: of came back and I was like, oh, I'm back
42:44
Speaker 1: like that, all that other stuff went away. I didn't
42:46
Speaker 1: have a great mind, but I was. I was in
42:50
Speaker 1: a frame that I could manage at that point, and
42:53
Speaker 1: so it was good. It was a good experience for me.
42:55
Speaker 1: More importantly, other than what I said, what I learned
42:59
Speaker 1: backstage was more important than what I did on stage,
43:01
Speaker 1: and it was fine. On stage, it was fine. So
43:05
Speaker 1: thank you.
43:07
Speaker 2: So then share with me how you go from this
43:11
Speaker 2: pivotal moment for you and understanding the importance of going
43:16
Speaker 2: through something to getting to the place where as you
43:23
Speaker 2: referenced before you're in the amphitheater. Talk to me about
43:27
Speaker 2: that transition in your life.
43:30
Speaker 1: Well, I think I think the segue in there is that.
43:34
Speaker 1: And I've been fortunate to work now in some of
43:36
Speaker 1: the most hostile environments known to humans. Certainly rugged environments
43:40
Speaker 1: like the last ten years with the Seattle Seahawks, but
43:43
Speaker 1: that's rugged. There's some pressure in those environments. But some
43:46
Speaker 1: of the other places, like the stuff red Bull Stratos
43:50
Speaker 1: and a project called Heaven sent Rebel Stratus is when
43:53
Speaker 1: Felix baum Gotner jumped from about one hundred and thirty
43:56
Speaker 1: thousand feet and the brightest minds in aerospace, weren't sure
43:59
Speaker 1: if he was going to make it. It was an
44:01
Speaker 1: incredibly dangerous and wonderful project that was on. So how
44:07
Speaker 1: do you go from those environments? I think the segue
44:10
Speaker 1: that makes sense is that I needed to do the work.
44:13
Speaker 1: And just like we physically prepare with sets and reps
44:18
Speaker 1: so that we can express ourselves creatively on the playing field,
44:22
Speaker 1: whether that's the boardroom or it's the field, or it's
44:27
Speaker 1: the living room. You know, when there's a moment that's
44:30
Speaker 1: got some stress on it, like, can we use our
44:33
Speaker 1: faculties to express ourselves towards our upper capability? That I
44:38
Speaker 1: needed to put in the reps, not only physically but mentally,
44:42
Speaker 1: and so you know, the mental stuff is meditation, it's
44:46
Speaker 1: breathing work, it's clarity of purpose, it is training deep focus.
44:52
Speaker 1: It is a framework of optimism, which is a trainable skill.
44:56
Speaker 1: All of that builds the ability to be more resilient
45:00
Speaker 1: to deal with the real challenges that come. If you
45:04
Speaker 1: want to do something special with your own capabilities, there's
45:07
Speaker 1: going to be real challenges. Karch Karai is one of
45:10
Speaker 1: the best to ever play the game of volleyball and
45:12
Speaker 1: coach it, so multiple gold medals, Olympics, World Championships, indoor beach,
45:19
Speaker 1: you name it. He is a legend. And as I
45:22
Speaker 1: was working with the US women's national team going into
45:24
Speaker 1: Rio for the last Olympic Games, and he said he
45:28
Speaker 1: was the coach, and he says, Mike, I'm certain that
45:31
Speaker 1: no one gets to the podium at the Olympic Games
45:33
Speaker 1: without passing through a double barrel shotgun while at the Games.
45:38
Speaker 1: So let's prepare our team to know how to stand
45:41
Speaker 1: down a double barrel shotgun. That's rad So that's training
45:44
Speaker 1: the mind.
45:48
Speaker 2: You referenced the US women's national team. You referenced the Seahawks.
45:55
Speaker 2: Talk to me about the first time that you recall
46:00
Speaker 2: perhaps getting that phone caller making your way into a
46:04
Speaker 2: scenario where you were working with someone that you yourself had
46:10
Speaker 2: previously heard of, or someone of such what's the word
46:16
Speaker 2: I want to use here, esteem or a well known
46:19
Speaker 2: individual that kind of scared you a little bit.
46:24
Speaker 1: That's cool thought. I think that I'll tell you a
46:29
Speaker 1: funny story. I was nine years old.
46:33
Speaker 3: It's not where I expected this one to start.
46:36
Speaker 1: And I'll let you be the judge of funny. You know,
46:37
Speaker 1: I think it's funny, but it was nine years old,
46:40
Speaker 1: and I'm kind of the hillbilly that I was in
46:42
Speaker 1: Virginia and there was this event where the kicker for
46:45
Speaker 1: the Redskins was going to do a talk at the
46:47
Speaker 1: local high school. And my dad's like, hey, let's go,
46:50
Speaker 1: and I was like, for what? And so we went.
46:52
Speaker 1: We talked, and Mark Moseley was the kicker's name, and
46:56
Speaker 1: there's a big lineup afterwards of all the kids signing
46:58
Speaker 1: getting there cards signed, and it was I don't know, like,
47:05
Speaker 1: and my Dad's like, let's get in line, let's do that.
47:07
Speaker 1: And I was like, no, Like I'd rather go home.
47:12
Speaker 1: I had no interest. I don't I still to this day,
47:15
Speaker 1: am more interested in the human than what they've done.
47:18
Speaker 1: So to answer your question, honestly, it'll it almost will
47:21
Speaker 1: sound blasphemous because I so enjoy the people I work with,
47:25
Speaker 1: but I don't lead with like, look what they've done,
47:27
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, because I do know that they have
47:30
Speaker 1: the same worries, they breathe the same air, they have
47:34
Speaker 1: the same basic dreams for their kids, and I'm more
47:40
Speaker 1: interested in the human experience rather than the performative part
47:44
Speaker 1: of them. So I maybe that's a blessing you know
47:47
Speaker 1: like I don't. I don't go to that place, and
47:50
Speaker 1: I think that I think that that's probably felt by
47:52
Speaker 1: other people.
47:54
Speaker 2: Not to say that it's not felt, but to say
47:58
Speaker 2: and maybe like to allow me to brag on you
48:01
Speaker 2: for a moment. I've had Carrie Walls Jennings on the show.
48:04
Speaker 2: Obviously again, you mentioned working with the volleyball team, and
48:08
Speaker 2: I know, just from seeing you speak everywhere from the
48:11
Speaker 2: under Armor Performance Summit to Oh my goodness, I just
48:15
Speaker 2: feel like a handful of times now and hearing about
48:18
Speaker 2: the clientele that you've worked with, that you have an
48:20
Speaker 2: impressive roster, and I think that something is to be said,
48:24
Speaker 2: not just of course, by the fact that you've been
48:28
Speaker 2: able to work with these individuals, but about the fact
48:30
Speaker 2: that you're so I would argue good at what you do,
48:35
Speaker 2: that you have become an important tool in the toolbox
48:40
Speaker 2: for so many high performing individuals that many people listening
48:44
Speaker 2: to this show would know who they are.
48:47
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Well, first, thank you for the compliment, and
48:50
Speaker 1: then I also appreciate you calling me a tool. You
48:55
Speaker 1: are welcome the tool of a tool in the tool Yeah.
49:00
Speaker 3: Never have I ever called a guest a tool before.
49:04
Speaker 1: It's perfect I absolutely love all of it. And and
49:08
Speaker 1: you know, like I and I am because I am
49:11
Speaker 1: part of like the the support mechanism for the for
49:15
Speaker 1: the people in the amphitheater and so okay, so not
49:20
Speaker 1: being too far from the joke here is that, Yeah,
49:23
Speaker 1: I've been fortunate, and I think part of where what
49:28
Speaker 1: I represent with people is that there's far more to
49:32
Speaker 1: go and I'm less interested in human the doing than
49:36
Speaker 1: the being. And what I've come to learn is that
49:40
Speaker 1: the most extraordinaries across multiple disciplines. And you know, I
49:46
Speaker 1: was this. You know, I've got a small team my business.
49:49
Speaker 1: We have a small team and we get fined if
49:50
Speaker 1: we name drop. Okay, so like it's like, you know,
49:54
Speaker 1: it's it's a fun joke, like if someone's going to
49:55
Speaker 1: try a big time and say like, oh well, you know,
49:58
Speaker 1: I had a conversation with fill in the blanks, like
50:00
Speaker 1: everyone rallies like, okay, you're getting fun nonsense. You know.
50:04
Speaker 1: So this was but this is cool because this person
50:07
Speaker 1: when they announced that they're going to go on tour,
50:10
Speaker 1: they'll sell out across the planet in fifteen minutes. And
50:14
Speaker 1: so he says, I am far more interested in being
50:20
Speaker 1: than doing, and so being more to do more is
50:23
Speaker 1: where this idea was born from. So I think you
50:26
Speaker 1: and I and many of us swallowed at a young
50:28
Speaker 1: age this idea that we need to do the extraordinary
50:31
Speaker 1: to be extraordinary, and I certainly did. I can't speak
50:34
Speaker 1: for you, and so I had to undo that first
50:38
Speaker 1: to say, no, I need to be me. I need
50:40
Speaker 1: to be grounded, be present, be creative, be authentic, and
50:44
Speaker 1: then let the doing flow from that place. And it's
50:47
Speaker 1: almost like the lid opens up in this magical way.
50:50
Speaker 1: And so I think that that's why, because I really
50:53
Speaker 1: don't give a shit what they've done. I'm more interested
50:55
Speaker 1: in who they are and who they want to become.
50:57
Speaker 1: And so there's a little bit of a breath of
51:00
Speaker 1: rush are because you've been to a party when someone's
51:02
Speaker 1: kind of like, oh, what do you do? And I
51:04
Speaker 1: just want to go the fuck are we doing here?
51:07
Speaker 1: You know? And then they look over and they're looking
51:09
Speaker 1: over my shoulder. Once they're like, oh, you know you're
51:11
Speaker 1: a sports psychologist. Great, well where's the oh yeah, looking
51:15
Speaker 1: on the shoulder, like where's the star? You know. I'm like,
51:18
Speaker 1: let's say, I see what you're doing.
51:20
Speaker 2: And so, you know, but what I will say and
51:25
Speaker 2: call out here is I know that we were connected
51:28
Speaker 2: through the hyper Rice team and to be a part
51:32
Speaker 2: of their performance advisors group, that's got to be a
51:36
Speaker 2: cool opportunity.
51:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so hyper Rice is it's a disruptive company,
51:43
Speaker 1: and so they they're products, their their technology, compression vibration
51:48
Speaker 1: products are in just about every locker room I've ever
51:51
Speaker 1: been in. I don't do you use them?
51:54
Speaker 3: I do.
51:54
Speaker 2: I have everything from a hyper volt to my left
51:59
Speaker 2: to Norma tech boots to my right. So I've got
52:02
Speaker 2: a everything in this apartment and I think in a
52:05
Speaker 2: hyper ice compression sleeve and some ice in my freezer.
52:11
Speaker 1: So you're like me for sure. And so they're really disruptive.
52:14
Speaker 1: And the reason they're in every locker room, just about
52:17
Speaker 1: every locker room I've been in is they're not just
52:19
Speaker 1: for athletes though. But the reason that there is because
52:22
Speaker 1: recovery is a big part of the game. So this
52:25
Speaker 1: balance between stress recovery, stress recovery and trying to get
52:28
Speaker 1: that thing right is materially important. That's why on the
52:32
Speaker 1: world stage we talk about recovery so much. And this
52:35
Speaker 1: is a tool to prime for movement and to recover
52:40
Speaker 1: well from movement and if like I don't move the
52:44
Speaker 1: way I used to, you know, like I'm not doing
52:46
Speaker 1: big events and such, but I'm sitting too much. So
52:52
Speaker 1: I've got my compression and my hyper volt I'm using
52:58
Speaker 1: it every day, losing my hips, hams, low back, glutes,
53:02
Speaker 1: and so I don't know what I would do without it. Honestly,
53:05
Speaker 1: it sounds cheesy, And I love that I get to
53:06
Speaker 1: work with them because they're disruptive and they get after
53:10
Speaker 1: it and they're credible, and those are the folks and
53:13
Speaker 1: companies I love to work with.
53:15
Speaker 2: You mentioned that that example of being at the party
53:18
Speaker 2: and the people like looking around you and being.
53:20
Speaker 3: Like, hmm, what's going on here?
53:24
Speaker 2: Obviously now people know of you, perhaps they see a
53:30
Speaker 2: performance psychologist. When you look in the mirror, what is
53:34
Speaker 2: it that you see looking back at you?
53:37
Speaker 1: Oh, that's cool, cool question. I there's so many jokes
53:44
Speaker 1: that I'll keep them all to myself. Right now, I
53:46
Speaker 1: will say that when I look I am I'm surprised
53:52
Speaker 1: by the places this body has been, but I feel
53:57
Speaker 1: completely familiar with the spirit inside, so like it feels
54:07
Speaker 1: at home when I look at myself, like I am
54:10
Speaker 1: at peace with the the inner workings of who I
54:14
Speaker 1: am and I'm but I'm like, when I look at
54:16
Speaker 1: the shell, I'm like, man, you've been to some places,
54:18
Speaker 1: so I just don't. I never thought about the places
54:21
Speaker 1: and the environments that I've been in that that would
54:23
Speaker 1: take place. And so there's a sense of peace about
54:26
Speaker 1: the that is the residue, if you will, of living
54:30
Speaker 1: with integrity. And I know that I'm talking about me
54:33
Speaker 1: living with integrity, which is a weird thing to say,
54:35
Speaker 1: but like I've been Like it's a good example. I
54:38
Speaker 1: don't have a friend that cheats on their wife. And
54:41
Speaker 1: so I've been married since I was twenty five, so
54:44
Speaker 1: almost like twenty let's see, I'm forty nine now, so
54:47
Speaker 1: whatever the math is on that almost twenty twenty years wife. Yeah,
54:51
Speaker 1: And and so like I love that I've been completely faithful,
54:56
Speaker 1: and like I don't, you know, like doing the right
55:00
Speaker 1: thing is so important to me. So like those you know,
55:05
Speaker 1: my parents had a good job of creating a good,
55:07
Speaker 1: strong moral foundation. And then I love that I built
55:11
Speaker 1: the mental skills. And I'm not perfect, but I love
55:15
Speaker 1: that I'm building mental skills to be able to deal
55:17
Speaker 1: with high stress environments, you know. And so I don't know.
55:20
Speaker 1: That's a long web. I've never really answered that, so
55:23
Speaker 1: it's a good question. Thank you for that.
55:25
Speaker 3: Of course.
55:26
Speaker 2: I mean that your explanation a little bit reminds me
55:28
Speaker 2: of something that Angela Manuel Davis said to me that
55:31
Speaker 2: she hopes to live in purpose on purpose. So when
55:37
Speaker 2: she looks in the mirror, that is what she sees.
55:40
Speaker 2: She sees a woman who is truly living her purpose
55:44
Speaker 2: very intentionally.
55:47
Speaker 1: That's what's up. That's really cool.
55:49
Speaker 3: That's what's up. That's what's up. What excites you right now?
55:52
Speaker 1: Doctor Jervai, Oh, we got formal. I think that the
55:57
Speaker 1: decade of the mind he rattled us. And so this
56:03
Speaker 1: next decade is going to be about the mind because
56:07
Speaker 1: where we've just been, we realize that we didn't have
56:09
Speaker 1: the capabilities, the psychological capabilities, to deal with such high
56:13
Speaker 1: stress change. And so this next decade will be about
56:16
Speaker 1: the mind. And I'm incredibly excited about where technology is
56:21
Speaker 1: going to meet ancient wisdom. That is, we were having
56:24
Speaker 1: the extraordinaries raise their hands to say the mind matters.
56:29
Speaker 1: You know, everyone from the folks that you mentioned to
56:31
Speaker 1: so many others are raising their hands saying, invest in
56:34
Speaker 1: your inner life. And so this next decade of the
56:38
Speaker 1: mind is going to be radical, and I'm super excited.
56:41
Speaker 1: I'm bullish on human flourishing. I think that through relationships
56:46
Speaker 1: with ourselves, then with others and with mother Nature, we
56:51
Speaker 1: are going to reimagine what it means to be human.
56:55
Speaker 1: And so this next decade of the mind is what
56:57
Speaker 1: excites me.
57:00
Speaker 3: Right now.
57:01
Speaker 2: If I was to give you an opportunity to double
57:05
Speaker 2: click on something that maybe you would have double clicked
57:09
Speaker 2: on a little bit sooner in our conversation, and you
57:11
Speaker 2: think about something that could be really beneficial to shed
57:14
Speaker 2: some light on, where does your mind go with.
57:17
Speaker 1: That, like for a skill or a tool for folks
57:22
Speaker 1: like where we double k Yeah, I would think one
57:27
Speaker 1: of the great bits of work as a human, you know, philosophy.
57:32
Speaker 1: I'm sorry purpose we did let me hit on philosophy
57:34
Speaker 1: because we haven't talked about it. And so having a
57:37
Speaker 1: philosophy is really clarity of your guiding principles. So what
57:44
Speaker 1: are the principles that guide your thoughts, your words and
57:47
Speaker 1: your actions and that bit of work it's substantial, and
57:53
Speaker 1: so I would I would like to kind of double
57:55
Speaker 1: click to use your language on writing down your core philosophy,
58:02
Speaker 1: you're guiding principles. Maybe it takes ten pages at first,
58:04
Speaker 1: and then you whittle it down, whittle it down, whittle
58:06
Speaker 1: it down to get to something that's like twelve words
58:09
Speaker 1: or less. What is the what are the principles that
58:13
Speaker 1: are going to guide your thoughts, words and actions so
58:15
Speaker 1: that when you run to the thin herd, the edge
58:18
Speaker 1: of the frontier, and when you're running in that high
58:21
Speaker 1: stress space, that you're able to have clarity ahead of time.
58:26
Speaker 1: This is how I'm going to guide my thoughts, words
58:28
Speaker 1: and actions, and that kind of pre work I think
58:32
Speaker 1: pays dividends. So along with purpose, philosophy is equally is important.
58:37
Speaker 1: But then maybe that feels heavy and big and emily
58:40
Speaker 1: I'd say that a practice of long exhales would be Yeah,
58:45
Speaker 1: it would be something more thin, sliced, more manageable. But
58:49
Speaker 1: you can't really do like a little band aid thing
58:52
Speaker 1: with long exhales if your mind's constantly worrying about the
58:56
Speaker 1: future and you don't know your purpose fill in the blank. So,
58:59
Speaker 1: but a practice of long exhales, to over simplify the
59:02
Speaker 1: science of breathing does send signals to our brain that
59:05
Speaker 1: right now we're okay, and if you think about like
59:08
Speaker 1: there's four parts to every breath, that maybe what we
59:11
Speaker 1: would do is we would say, start with a cadence
59:14
Speaker 1: something like six in six hold, twelve out six hold,
59:20
Speaker 1: and something like that will materially make a difference across
59:24
Speaker 1: people's ability to downregulate and stress is an up regulator,
59:31
Speaker 1: but I need practices to help downregulate. And doing ten
59:35
Speaker 1: of those in a row as a training wheels, you know, six, six, twelve,
59:39
Speaker 1: six ten times would be a nice little fin slized practice.
59:43
Speaker 2: You say, philosophy, and for a listener that hears that,
59:46
Speaker 2: and they hear you explain it, and they start to
59:48
Speaker 2: get their wheels turning, and they're not exactly sure still
59:51
Speaker 2: how to go about creating that philosophy? What else would
59:54
Speaker 2: you tell that? Maybe perhaps if you could provide an example.
59:59
Speaker 1: Sure, well, okay, that's great, we'll do both.
1:00:03
Speaker 3: Yeah, what is let's do?
1:00:06
Speaker 1: Doctor King, Doctor Martin Luther King Jr. You know what
1:00:09
Speaker 1: would you say?
1:00:10
Speaker 3: His philosophy is equality period?
1:00:14
Speaker 1: Right, So everywhere he went, his thoughts, his words, and
1:00:19
Speaker 1: his actions were about moving the narrative of equality. So
1:00:23
Speaker 1: that's a philosophy. And then his life purpose was he
1:00:26
Speaker 1: called it a dream, but his life purpose was to
1:00:30
Speaker 1: see that in a certain form. But his philosophy was
1:00:34
Speaker 1: really about listening. My thoughts and words and actions need
1:00:37
Speaker 1: to be lined up about helping people, you know, live
1:00:40
Speaker 1: with equality. And so we can go down the list
1:00:43
Speaker 1: of some of the greats that you know, Mohammad, Jesus, Buddha, Confucian, like,
1:00:50
Speaker 1: we know their philosophies and because that's how they showed
1:00:53
Speaker 1: up everywhere they went. And so the same is available
1:00:56
Speaker 1: for you and me to do that work. And so
1:01:01
Speaker 1: how do you do it? This is going to sound
1:01:03
Speaker 1: like a cheesy plug, but I know we're up on time.
1:01:05
Speaker 1: I built an eight week online course to help people
1:01:08
Speaker 1: do all of this work to pull back the curtain,
1:01:10
Speaker 1: to show people exactly how I work with the lead
1:01:13
Speaker 1: athletes and executives and artists on how they can train
1:01:16
Speaker 1: how they train their mind. So you can do the
1:01:17
Speaker 1: same and so but there's no shortcuts, and I'm not
1:01:21
Speaker 1: going to hold anything back, but to do the work
1:01:24
Speaker 1: sometimes takes cadence and timing. And in that course, you
1:01:28
Speaker 1: know this is fund Emily. We have we have two
1:01:32
Speaker 1: Olympians that coach you, medalists that coach you along the
1:01:36
Speaker 1: way and two sports sikes that coach you along the
1:01:38
Speaker 1: way to get in there and put a dull stick
1:01:40
Speaker 1: on your back and say, hey, you said you paid
1:01:42
Speaker 1: the money you signed up, Let's go do the work.
1:01:44
Speaker 1: How can I help you? You know? Like so it's
1:01:46
Speaker 1: that part's really.
1:01:47
Speaker 2: Cool, all right, So last little bit here, you have
1:01:50
Speaker 2: an opportunity right now to offer Let's go back to
1:01:55
Speaker 2: high school. Let's go back to the guy that used
1:01:58
Speaker 2: to be in a place where you would see that
1:02:01
Speaker 2: big wave in competition and not know what the hell
1:02:06
Speaker 2: to do how to perform. You have an opportunity right
1:02:09
Speaker 2: now looking back on that guy to give him one
1:02:11
Speaker 2: piece of advice going.
1:02:12
Speaker 3: Through those hurtle moments. What do you tell him?
1:02:17
Speaker 1: That's cool? If I go big picture for a minute,
1:02:21
Speaker 1: then I'll drop into the wave thing. Big picture is like,
1:02:25
Speaker 1: nice job, dude, keep going, you know, like keep going,
1:02:30
Speaker 1: you know. And so I I've made mistakes, I've had
1:02:36
Speaker 1: unfortunate things that have happened to me, things that I've created,
1:02:40
Speaker 1: co created, you know, all of it, and all of
1:02:43
Speaker 1: the scar tissue and the pain that I've experienced, it
1:02:47
Speaker 1: has come around for gratitude. So I'm okay with all
1:02:50
Speaker 1: the mistakes that you know and so as to keep going.
1:02:53
Speaker 1: And so that's the life thing. And then the wave
1:02:58
Speaker 1: thing is like, who gives a shit what they think?
1:03:03
Speaker 1: Be true to yourself, dude, you know, paddle in, push hard,
1:03:08
Speaker 1: pop and go, like be absorbed in what you're doing
1:03:11
Speaker 1: and stop caring so much about what they think. And
1:03:15
Speaker 1: so that would be the best kind of gem I do.
1:03:19
Speaker 1: It would have been nice to learn that earlier, but
1:03:20
Speaker 1: I probably needed to have that internal scratchiness for so
1:03:25
Speaker 1: long to get to the truth of it.
1:03:28
Speaker 3: So grateful for your time today.
1:03:29
Speaker 2: I am sitting here like I'll probably be sitting here
1:03:31
Speaker 2: for another thirty minutes digesting all of this, and I'm
1:03:35
Speaker 2: sure the hurdlers will probably feel the same way. At
1:03:38
Speaker 2: doctor gerva How do the hurdlers keep up with you?
1:03:40
Speaker 2: How can they follow along with you? Give me all
1:03:43
Speaker 2: the details?
1:03:45
Speaker 1: Can I be a hurdler too? I love it?
1:03:47
Speaker 3: Yeah, please be a hurdler. Invite the squad.
1:03:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is so good. Social is fun and so
1:03:54
Speaker 1: I'm enjoying it. At Michael Gervais and that's g E
1:03:58
Speaker 1: R v ai s. It's on Insta, LinkedIn Twitter and
1:04:02
Speaker 1: then finding Masters of the podcast and so that has
1:04:06
Speaker 1: been a great way to you know, we're building out
1:04:10
Speaker 1: some membership model, so there's deeper engagement there. So Finding
1:04:13
Speaker 1: Masters the podcast, and then you can actually wrote a book,
1:04:16
Speaker 1: and so if people want to check out the book.
1:04:18
Speaker 1: But I would say the course is kind of if
1:04:20
Speaker 1: you really want to invest in what you're doing, the
1:04:23
Speaker 1: course is the best way to go. But the website
1:04:25
Speaker 1: is Findingmastery dot net. Name of the book Compete to Create,
1:04:31
Speaker 1: and the idea is like you got to work your
1:04:33
Speaker 1: ass off to create a living masterpiece, and so we
1:04:36
Speaker 1: will show you how to work your ass off. But
1:04:38
Speaker 1: it's really about recovery and internal wellness.
1:04:42
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for your time today. Again, I
1:04:44
Speaker 2: appreciate it so so so much, awesome.
1:04:47
Speaker 1: Thank you.
1:04:48
Speaker 2: I'm over at Emilia Body and at Hurdle Podcast. Another
1:04:51
Speaker 2: Hurdle conquered. Catch you guys next time.