Latest / The You Project / #1732 Making Sh*t Up (Fiction Writing) - Pete Dickson

Transcript

#1732 Making Sh*t Up (Fiction Writing) - Pete Dickson · The You Project

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I got a You Bloody Champions, Welcome to another installment
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: on the You projector's harps. Who else would it be.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: It's a it's a bloody Wednesday. It's twelve thirty five
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: and the thriving tropolis of Melbourne, and I'm chatting with
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: one of my best friend in the world, Rip Dicko,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: who's not with us anymore.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: Love that man, Still love that man.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: I also love his brother, who is I'm going to
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: be honest, not quite as good as Dicko was, but
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: he's about ninety five percent.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: And that's okay. I mean because he was a gun.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: That's so mate, you been ninety five percent of as
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: good as your brother.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: That's all right, isn't it.
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: I'd take ninety five percent, I'd take eighty percent. Yeah.
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: Great to be here and go on. I love I
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: love speaking with you, and I'm very grateful that you
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: got me on again. I love having chats with you.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, me too, mate, I love it. And I'm being silly.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: Of course.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: You're one hundred percent Pete Dixon, and you're a ripper
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: in your own right. Your brother was a beauty and
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: you know, but it's good to catch up with you again.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: Mate, and what do you I know, you've just put
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: out a book.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: We're going to talk about that. But it's been a
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: while since you've been on here. And so for those
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: who've been living under rock, Dick O is a director,
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: an award winning filmmaker, and now a two time author,
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: one fiction, one not real life will call the other one.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: I don't know what we call it faction, But other
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: than writing a new book, what have you been up
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: to for the last few years?
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So I finished that book with about Rob he
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: was my brother, and then sort of went into a
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: what happens is I sort of in between projects. It's
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: a tumultuous time for me, really, because there's a few
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: things that happened. A I come down from a high
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: after being creatively active for so long, and then then
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: I get into the anxious part of it, where what's next?
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: And you know this game is you're really up and
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: down all the time, and you're hoping that you can
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: fund the next project. You're hoping you have something that
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: you passionately can work on. So it's been a bit
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: lean in the documentary space for independence such as myself.
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: Over the last few years, it's getting worse it's just
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: getting really hard to fund documentaries in the sporting space.
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: That the networks used to pay, they don't pay anymore.
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: So I in between these books, I had a good project,
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: a Carlton project, which was half funded by Carlton, half
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: funded independently, and so I had a great chance to
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: do a documentary on that that was released this year,
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: and that was on Fox and in between that went
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: really well. Yeah, yeah, it was great. It was about
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: the nineteen seventy It was a sort of a homage
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: to the past, the nineteen seventy Grand Final team, and
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: I managed to speak to both Carlton and Collingwood, most
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: of the players before, I mean the getting old. So
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: it was a good chance to.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: Grab did you talk for Jesus still alive?
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: Jess is still alive, but he is not in great shape.
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: So I used archival stuff for Jez. I mean, there's
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: a few of them that are really battling, so you
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: had to sort of be very choosy with that. But
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: so that came out. But in between what's happened since
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: I wrote that book. He was my brother. I really
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: enjoyed that process. I remember talking to out last time.
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: I really it's sort of felled a void for me
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: in the story and telling sense without documentaries, and so
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: I thought, I think I might try fiction. I was
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: asked to write fiction and one of my mentors, and
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: I thought, I don't think I've got the words for fiction.
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: I think it's and it's a really difficult thing to do.
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: And anyway, I had an idea that's been in my
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: head for a while, and I went ahead and had
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: a crack and I remember the first few chapters. I
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: thought I was flying. I thought this is the greatest
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: peed of work. And I remember sending it to one
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: of those mentors and the reaction was, what is this shit?
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: So really, yeah, it put me straight back in my box.
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: But it was more about, you know, the writing was good.
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: They liked the writing. It's just that there was no
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: story to the first few chapters, which I sort of
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: it was a good punch in the face straight up.
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: So I changed attack on the whole thing and I
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: went back to the drawing board, and a thousand edits later,
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: I had a manuscript, and to my shock, it got
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: picked up by a US publisher.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: So, and as somebody who's I've been published by a
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: few publishers, like Jeff'slattery Publishing.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: You would know him.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: In fact, your brother, your brother introduced me, God bless him.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: He introduced me to jeff'slatter AKAIFL Publishing and Penguin I
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: published with, And so I understand then I'm self published.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: I understand the journey and the process. And when I
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: spoke to you the other day briefly and you told
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: me that it got picked up by us published, I'm like,
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: how the fuck did you do that?
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: Dude?
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: Like that is so for a first time fiction? Like
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: to them, you're with respect like me, You're a nobody
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: to them, Oh, absolute blank, yep, you're a literary nobody
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: in America, just like me.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: Well you, I mean not to me, mate, it's special,
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: but to them.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: So for them to actually pick it up that you
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: must have been quite I mean, first of it was
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: amazing and you deserve it and well done.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: But it's very rare that that happens.
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: It's so rare. And I mean because I'm not a
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: well known writer by any means. I mean in a
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: documentary space, yes, but in writing, I don't have an
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: agent as a writer, and to get an agent is bloody.
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: I mean, the stats on that are one in six thousand.
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: It's ridiculously difficult to get an agent. So I couldn't
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: send the manuscript to the big publishers here in Australia
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: because they just don't look at it unless your age,
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: you have an agent. I sent the manuscript off to
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: a few of the local independent publishers indie publishers in
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: Australia and got some rejections. You just know you're going
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: to get rejected in this book game. So that was fine.
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: Gold fiction not really their genre. So for some didn't
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: get past the first chapter blah blah blah. So I
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: started to target US and UK publishers and I got one.
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: I sent one and I remember looking at it initially
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: thinking they're not going to accept this because the big
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: in big red writing splashed across the portal page was
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: we only accept US authors, so I thought, and I
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: was in that stage where I'm just going to send
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: it to everyone. So I sent it off lo and behold,
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: a couple of weeks after that and I'm still, to
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: be honest, I sent this manuscript off, I don't know,
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: six months ago, it to various places. I'm still getting
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: responses that they haven't read it yet so it takes forever.
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: It's glacier speed, this sort of stuff. So I'd be whole.
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: We horrified if an Australian one comes back soon and
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: says they would take it. But anyway, because I've signed
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: off for three years. But anyway, they came back and said, look,
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: we have read the first few chapters and we want
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: to keep reading. So to us that means we're interested.
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: We will get back to you. And I was shocked
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: because I realized that that was this place that so
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: then you're sort of on tenderhooks, just waiting and waiting.
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: And anyway, about two or three weeks later they came
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: to step Because it's all email, they came back and said,
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: we would like to publish your book simply. That was
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: simply the line, and I to be honest, I cried
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: to be honest. And because I'm an emotional unit, I
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: don't blame you. Yeah, I'm emotional. And this was one
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: of those ones where I never really thought I was
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: actually prepared next year great to sort of go, look,
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: I'll even do it myself if I have to, just
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: just to get the story out there. But so the
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: next phase of that was you have to sign over
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: for three years and they look after everything else. They
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: are a massive publisher in the States in terms of
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: their online presence. I don't care either way. I'm just
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: happy that someone's taken it. And what they're telling me
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: is that online is the only way to go. They
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: bookstores are dying off in America apparently, so everything they
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: do is pushed hard online around the world, and they
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: have around the world access and for printing, so if
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: people go into a bookstore here, they won't be on
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: the shelf, but they just have to asked for the
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: title and it'll be there the next day because they
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: have distribution centers in Australia, funnily enough in daniel On,
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: which is in Victoria. So they sent me a bunch
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: which I'm actually selling through my website, which is quicker
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: for people and cheaper. But yeah, it was amazing and
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: I'm forever grateful to them, and they have been nothing
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: but supportive and warm. They're always there. I mean, I'm
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: just amazed at the relationship that they offer, and to
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: be honest, it's not a big money spit turning thing
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: the book market, and just the fact they're doing this
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: and they believed in the book astounds me, but there
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: was another reason to it. There is a bit of
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: an American flavor to it. It is about the masters,
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: it is about playing golf for a green Master's jacket,
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: so it's a hat tip to the masters, and I
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: think I think that was something that attracted them. I
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: like to think that they liked the writing, but I
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: think that was something that was a bit unusual. And
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: then I found out that I was only one of
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: two authors in Australia they have.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: So I was and I heard you on SCN and
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: you don't know who the other one is, right, No, I.
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: Don't know who the other one is. And it was
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: funny the guys were saying a bit flat that you're
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: not the only one. I don't know who the other
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: one is and I don't know the book. But yeah,
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: I just think for them to do that, they I'm
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: forever grateful. And so three years and yeah they have it.
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: They have the rights to it for three years. So
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: now it's it's kind of it's funny. It's sort of
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: there's this big hype around right now it's released and
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: you get all excited, but then a couple of weeks time,
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: as you know, with these things. It's all done. It's
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: all done.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: What's interesting What I love about like when I signed with,
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: you know, both of different publishers I signed with. What
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: I love is it's like it dawns on you that
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: it's in their interest to sell lots of books.
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, do you know what I mean?
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: Like they are highly motivated to sell your book and
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: so all the shit that you don't want to do,
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: Like I mean, and I know you're something of an introvert,
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: and I know how much you love pr and talking publicly, right,
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: so I guess they've kind of, you know, charged you
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: with doing exactly what you're doing now, which is talking
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: to various forms of media about the book, which you're
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: very good at. But what is great is in terms
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: of building a network and getting it into stores or
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: getting it into hands whatever formatic comes in, you know,
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: whether it's an ebook or whether it's a physical book
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: or eventually is it going to be audio eventually or no.
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: Yes, they have tie with that will happen. They're just
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: waiting to see how it goes in the first few months.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean having all of the back end
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: taken care of where you don't have to l shit,
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: you don't have to distribute, you don't have to get
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: it on shelves, you don't need to worry about marketing, branding.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: Look feel it's just like, oh god, that's if you
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: can just be the talent in inverted commas, it's such
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: an easier path.
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, and they did in America. They're looking after all
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: that side over there, and I mean, it just stuns
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: me that some places will have this book, which is
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: just makes me think, I just can't believe that's going
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: to happen. But over here they did say obviously because
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: of the distance, I have to do the heavy lifting
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: in terms of marketing and trying to move it. But
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: I don't mind that. Initially. I find the difficult part
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: about all that side of it, especially with documentaries for
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: me as well, is is I just think you can
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: tend to get to the point where people are sick
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: of you, do you know what I mean? And I
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: do because I've been around so long with this sort
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: of industry around in Melbourne anyway, you know your call
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: on the networks and you have and they are they
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: just they've been so wonderful to me. They were so
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: wonderful to rob you as you know in the past
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: and look after me very well. But there comes a
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: point where I, you know, I did, I did say
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: to the publisher, I'll give it a good go for
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: a couple of weeks and then that'll that'll do me
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: from this end, and then I'll probably crank it up
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: again sometime next year. But yeah, I'm not really comfortable
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: with all that. I like, I don't mind doing it
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: when asked, but you know, you just got to think
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: sometimes some some of the things you do are not
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: of the interest of what the people are that you're
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: looking to get on, you know.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: I think also.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: It's for somebody like you and a lot of people
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: who don't necessarily love talking about themselves, right or you know,
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: it's like it's just a thing you've got to do.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: And I understand it, but I think.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: It's never been more suited to to people like you
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: now because you can just do this, you can just
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: talk like it's not like, hey, we're willing you out
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: for four minutes on the Today Show. Here he is
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: and you've got to hey, everyone, yeah, I'm Pete. Yep.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: Oh, the book's bloody amazing. And then now we're off
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: to a break.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: You know, those little soundbody quick, you're in makeup, you're
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: wearing a lapel mic. You've got to talk like a
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: chipmunk for three minutes. You've got to get the message out.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: You've got to be this performing puppet like versus podcasting.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: Now where we can talk about whatever we talk about.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: We're going to talk about the book.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: We're going to make people aware, We're going to hopefully
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: sell a few copies for you. We're going to get
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: a little bit of background and inside on the story
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: and the journey. But I think this kind of format,
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: Like for me, I've worked on Telly, I worked on
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: Channel ten three years, I worked on sen for fifteen, Like,
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: I've done bits and pieces of media, and for me,
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: podcasting is the best because there are literally no fucking rules.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: You and I can chat for ten minutes or four hours,
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: doesn't matter.
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: That's that's right. Yeah. Are you so? Are you comfortable
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: on screen and so forth? Is that something you're comfortable with?
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't mind it. I don't have any huge
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: desire to be on Telly or to have my head scene.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: I'm more like, I'm fascinated, like and this is not
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: just a sales pitch for the show, like, I'm genuinely
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: fascinated with stories and human behavior and high performance and
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: you know, the psychology of success and failure and emotion,
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: and like I'm I love just having great conversations with people.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: And obviously if somebody rocked up and said, you know,
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: I actually got approached by the ABC to do a
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: pilot for a show Pete called The Life Coach, And
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: so they flew into Sydney. They had a whole audience.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: They had me and another lady who was kind of
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: a co host more with me leading the way, her
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: kind of bouncing off me, and we like, I don't
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: know what it was, seventy or eighty people in this
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: audience and we did this pilot show around you know,
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: helping people get their shit together essentially, and it went great.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: We're better than I thought.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: And you know, when then the team came up to
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: me and when you know, the camera loves.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: You, you killed that. That was amazing.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: It's not a matter of if, but when all this
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: stuff and as you know what I'm going to say,
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: you say to you, it fell over, right. So there's
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: so much uncertainty in mainstream media.
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: Yes, and so.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: Firstly, I'm very grateful for what I've done and where
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: I've been and what I've seen and what I now have.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: Very grateful. So there's no.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: I'm not pissed off about anything, but the amount of
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: people who say things that don't follow through on those things.
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely, yeah happens. It happens in the documentary game too.
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: You know, yet, promise that this is going to happen,
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: and so you set yourself up for the next twelve
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: months and it doesn't happen. It kills you. It just
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: kills you. Yeah, and it kills you. I mean, you
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: can't plan. It kills you, your direction in where you're heading,
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: and throws everything off balance. And I'm and I'm one
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: of those I think you know this, but even with
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: this book release, I'm I just get petrified. At this point.
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: There's an element of me that feels like I'm the
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: biggest fraud in the history of frauds. And I've always
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: had that with the films you make, you put it out,
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: because then then I'm just petrified that any is anyone
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: going to like this? I mean, what am I doing?
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: And I think anyone who does what I do, I
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: think that's that's just part of the business. That's just
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: part of the I love. I love the process of writing,
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: a love the processes making films, but petrified at the
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: end when it's done. That doesn't make any sense, and.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: It makes all of sense. I think that. Firstly, I
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: think feeling like an impost or a fraud. This is
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: very counterintuitive and contrary to most opinions. I think it's good.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you why. I think it's good because it
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: stops you from getting a fat head. It keeps you grounded,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: like it makes you like I've said this a million
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: times to my listeners. I'm not a genius at all.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: I was never like you or your brother. I didn't
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: have great genetics. I didn't have sporting talent. I wasn't
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: the funniest, I wasn't the fastest. I couldn't fucking sing,
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: you know, all of that mediocrity that was my starting point,
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: and then all the self doubt and the overthinking and
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: the fucking imposter syndrome that never goes far away. Like
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: I'm a good communicator and I can talk, but that
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: doesn't mean I'm not fucking scared. That doesn't mean, you know, literally,
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: I did a gig the other day for AGL in
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: the city and it was quite a big gig and
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: it was two hours and it was fair bit of
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: dough and all of that and before I got up, literally,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: and I've done it thousands of times. People like, that's
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: my job. I've been doing it since I was twenty five,
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: going to corporates. You know, I'm sitting on this couch
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: at the back of the room while this MC is
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: banging on about different stuff and then starts to introduce
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: me and my bio. You know, like forty years of
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: stuff condensed into the best shit I've ever done in
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: thirty seconds sounds pretty impressive.
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: Impressive, Yeah, But it's funny.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: The more they read that, it's almost like I wish there.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: I'm like, let's set the bar lower, sow their expectations, because.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: When you read out my bio, it sounds like fucking
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: Superman's about to get up. Yes, you know, and I
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: still get up, mate, And that's self doubt, that overthinking that.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: You know, that's normal, it's just fair.
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: But you know, I'm glad to say that. Glad.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: I'm not trying to make you feel better too. And
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: I've coached lots of people and it's the same.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: But here's this is what I think, right, So there's
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: humans have this ability to simultaneously feel not good enough
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: but know that you are right. It's like I can think, oh, fuck,
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm actually I've just been lucky for the last
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: thirty forty years. Like I'm like, if they actually find
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: out what goes in my head, what goes on in
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: my head? Fuck, nobody's going to want to listen because
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: I don't even have my own shit together.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: So who am I to tell them? You know all that?
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: Why that fuck listen? Yeah?
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: And it's like you you've never you've never done it, right,
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: of course you're not this, You're not that. I'm like, yeah,
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: I'm just an ex fat kid from fucking Ladro Valley.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: All that shit happens. But at the same time, there's
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: this part of my brain that goes yep, Roger that
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: I see all of that, I feel all of that.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: But also, Craig, you've literally done this thousands of times.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: You've even done it for this company and they asked
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: you to come back, so you can't.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: Be complete shit, you know. So there's that there.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: But I I sorry it's a long winded rant, but
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: I feel like that emotional stuff because it's all emotional,
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: it's all fear based. It's all you know, self doubt,
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: overthinking and feeling like a fraud, imposter syndrome, whatever you
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: want to call it. It's all the same thing. And
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: it's just a form of fear. But fear is a motivator.
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: That just sums me up. But I mean, I also
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: I've also let I've also shared the I had the
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: what's the word I had the following Rob following Rob's
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: efforts with films and you know, keep doing them myself.
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: I've always had that I'm not good enough. I've never
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: matched his level of brilliance. I've always had that. And
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: I thought I got to a place about Actually, last
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: time I spoke to you, once I wrote that book,
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: I thought I'd got to a place where I'd settled
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: that within myself. I thought, I am who I am,
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: you know, I do what I do. And I sort
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: of started to feel proud of myself in that space
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: of the documentaries. And I think, I think I've reached
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: out in documentaries. But it's funny, I've just thrown myself
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: back into the into this simodacting arena with them with
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: the book, writing you know, because compared to authors, you know,
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: compared to I'm nobody. But I'm just All I'm doing
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: is having a go. And I think the only thing
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: that holds me, holds wait for me is the storytelling.
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: And I think if I have a gift, it is storytelling.
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: And I've accepted that now. So the way I write
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: fiction is the way I do documentaries. I craft it.
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: I there's three acts. I go through the whole process.
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: This this this fiction, which is based on elements of
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: every single person I've ever met. It has everything that
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: I would put into a film. It has it has humor,
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: it has emotion. You'll laugh, you'll cry, You'll You'll get
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: to know characters, You'll feel like you you're connected to
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: those characters. That's what I tried to get out of it.
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: And I was talking about this yesterday, trying to find
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: resolution with those characters. But one of the most difficult
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: things with fiction is you get to the end. And
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: sometimes I read books and go, I'm not quite. I
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: don't think I'm done, you know, I don't think I've
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: got to where I want to get with these characters.
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: But I think I've managed to do that here after
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: a thousand rewrites back. It's essentially for those who if
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: they do like the way I tell stories, I think
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: they'll like this book. And that's all I can ask.
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: I'm not out here to if you know it well.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: I also think it's important that people know it's about golf,
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: but it's not really about golf. And I think when
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: I first saw it's called The Embedded Lie everyone. By
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: the way, when I first saw the cover, I went, cheese,
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know that the book about golf.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: I'm like, mate, a book about golf. That's the smallest
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: fucking market ever, are you really?
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah?
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: And then and then I started to understand what the
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: book was. I'm like, oh, dude, this is not this
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: is not about golf. Golf is just like a reoccurring theme.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: It's about relationships and people and communication and connection and
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: like a whole bunch of the human experience stuff.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: So the publisher had came back with thoughts on covers
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: and it was an interesting process. I'm not sure if
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: this is of interest to you, but definitely so. My
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: initial thoughts was the seaside setting, because it is based
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: around the Point Lonsdale sort of ballerine area, and I
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: threw that to them my daughter Abby, who's very artistic.
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: She sort of painted this little sort of image of
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: what I had in my head, and the publisher saw
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: it was very impressive and sort of yeah, so they
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: had that same sort of reservation about you know, is
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: it golf? But I think it's a beautiful cover. It's
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: sort of but again, you're right, I think it'll throw
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: a lot of people off. In the end. I just
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: thought it's perfectly fitting for what the story is, that
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: it's sort of set around the game, if you like.
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: There's a little bit of a sort of a love
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: letter to sport, to golf. And I've stayed in my
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: lane with this as well. My lane is sport, my
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: lane is documentaries, and this within this story is a
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: documentary is made within the fiction story. And it's very
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: much about relationships of very much about family dynamics, very
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: much about friendships over decades and the ups and downs
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: of that, and the ten percent element of the book
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: is golf. So you're right, it probably will throw people
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: off at the cover, but it's just looking at it now, Yeah,
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: I think I'm happy with it. Are you never really
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: happy with it? I'm not sure, but yeah, yeah.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: But I think that's part of being like I reckon
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: and I could be really wrong with this because.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: But just just going back for a moment to you
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: and Rob, like what was like this creative and energetic force,
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: like this charismatic, you know, confident, charming, cheeky, all that, right,
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: But I feel like.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: With you your.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: You've got skills and qualities and attributes that are brilliant
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: that he didn't have. Like I feel for you, You're
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: you're more measured, You're more you're probably more cautious, but
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: probably more structured and process driven and box ticking and accountability.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: And whereas Rob was like a dog with three dicks,
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: Rob was just like yes, yeah, yeah, and whereas like
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: he was just a force. But it's like we needed
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: to almost like wrangle him, like just to go that's good,
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: but you know, one thing at a time, not thirteen Yes, when.
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: We were in business together doing our docos, I was
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: constantly trying to wrangle him in. And I think I
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: wasted a few years of my own sort of creative
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: element by trying to keep Rob on track, because he
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: was such a powerful force, as you said, and he
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: so creative and could hold a room walk in. You know,
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: everyone was aware Rob was there. It's charismatic. I'm not
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: like that. I'm a bit more quieter and reserved. I
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: can do it if I want to, but I just doesn't.
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: It's not as if Rob tried to do it. I
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: think it was just him. It was just the way
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: he was. But yeah, you're right, I'm a bit more measured.
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: I sort of, as I like to say, was always
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: kind of the bass player in the hilarious up the front,
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: you know, and I'm just sort of plugging away behind
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: the scenes. And so if anything I've had to, I've
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: had to put myself out the front of that after
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: he's passing with what I've done, and it's not easy
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: for me at all. But yeah, I'm a lot different
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: to him, and I like to think, and this is
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: another thing about the riding, to be honest, it has
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: released me from the shackles of Rob in the sense
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: that I'm doing something that he didn't do, and I don't.
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: I don't. He probably could have the prick, you know,
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: I bet we could have if he wanted to. But
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: I've got something that's mine now, Like because forever in
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: a day when I do sports documentaries, I release them,
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: and the first thing people talk about is the legacy
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: of Rob and doctors and I love I love it,
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: I love it. I love his name being still mentioned.
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: But there is part of me that can't escape the
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: fact that am I doing this because of Rob kind
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: of thing? Whereas these books, especially this one's fiction, is
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: this is out of the box in terms of something
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: I doubt Rob would have ever done. So there is
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: a there is a slight satisfaction in that.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, yeah, and you love your brother, and you
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: always love your brother, but it's your your you. He
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: was him and you don't have to live in his shadow,
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: and neither would he want you to or you know,
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: and you've got your own talent and your own path. Hey,
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you what surprised you about the
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: fiction writing process, Like, was there anything where you went off?
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: Is it twenty times harder? Or this is easy? Like
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: what not came up?
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: Well, what's surprising you was how bloody hard it is.
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: You're right, it's just it's so difficult. I had no
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: idea how difficult it was to I make shit up.
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: That is interesting. There's a lot of there's a lot
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: of elements of this that I've based on real events.
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: But you can't just it's a biography then if you
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: go that way. So what I had to do is
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: even as simple things, Craig, is what am I going
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: to name these characters? Now you think that's easy, it's
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: bloody hard. What relationships do they have with each other? What?
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: It just goes on and on and on. So what
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: the further I got into writing, I started to, I
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: feel the first half when I wrote it it was okay.
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: The second half I got into my groove and it
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: took about ten eleven months, and because I was in
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: between documentaries and waiting for the call, waiting for the
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: next funding, I had time on my hands. And the
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: problem with me is I can't do anything else, Like
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: I look at everyone else's occupation and I'm jealous of
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: how other people operate their lives because I don't have
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: any other options. My options are storytelling and documentary and
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: it's a it's a prick of an industry for that,
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: for constant work, for a constant income. I'm just sometimes
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: just bloody lucky that I've got a wife who's a doctor.
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: To be honest, in these periods where I'm not earning
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: as much as I should. You know, there's coverage there,
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: so and she backs me all the way with that.
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: But yeah, it's it's hard, it's it's a grind. I'm
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: I'm a pretty good The thing about writing is I'm
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: I'm a world class typist. I must admit. One of
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: the questions are one of the most bizarre things that
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: ever was. When I worked at the National Safety Council
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: with Rob years ago, one of the first things they
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: taught me was how to type, which I look back
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: now and go, that's one of the greatest things I've
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: ever got for the National Safety Council because I can
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: without looking type fast, so I can punch through manuscripts
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: and words, and I generally averaged when I was really
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: pumping it out about three to four thousand a day
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: what words. So I was So what that process is
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: is I'm just in the zone and I'm writing, and
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: I'm in the characters, and I'm feeling it and I
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: get through it. That has to be reworked a lot
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: what I've just written, but I'm getting there. I'm pushing
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: through the story. So I have an ability to do that,
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: which I did not know before. I started writing the
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: first book, I did not know I had that at all.
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: I've always I'm not a greater student by any means,
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: and when I look back at my schooling, English was
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: clearly my best subject any mathematics. I can't even look
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: at my son's year eight stuff. I just don't know
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: what he's talking about, you know what I mean. I'm
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: no good but yeah, so English, so and essays. I
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: always was good at essays, but I never put it
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: into practice in a working sense until now. So maybe
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: there is something there and I'd like to do another one.
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: I think it can only get better now that I've
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: got one out of the way. But again, it's how
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: much you commit to this genre of storytelling, because you know,
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: you've got to get to a point where you realize
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: you're not going to make a schoolion dollars from it.
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: It's more self satisfaction really, unless you get a big published,
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: get an agent, and get it out there.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: You know, I've been mentoring a young guy for years,
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: like he came in one of my programs when he
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: was nineteen, met him when he was seventeen or eight,
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: and he's thirty six.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: Now, I would love to get you two together. You
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: would love him.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: He actually he reminds me a little bit of Rob
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: in that he's good looking, as charismatic as fuck. He's charming,
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: he's very likable. It's got a couple of kids and
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: a wife is thirty. Tommy his name is Tommy Jacket,
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: and he's making docos and he just started, you know,
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: just like fifteen years ago, filming stuff with me little things,
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: and now he just came back from the States. He
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: spent nearly two months with a team of seven, fully
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: funded by private equity for a fair bit of dough.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: I know how much dode like, not insignificant, and.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he liked but he's he's killed himself to get
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: to this point where they went to the States and
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: they filmed a doco around gun culture and basically the
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: psychology of Americans and their guns and relationships with their
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: guns through the lens of Australians. I've seen some of
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: the footage. It's fucking amazing. And he's like you, he's
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: a really good storyteller and like of his stuff is
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: like television better than like.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: It's great. You would love it.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: You would love him, But yeah, I don't know why
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: I told you that in the middle of the podcast.
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: But I just see a lot of not that necessarily
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: you would do anything together.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: But I think he's a kindred spirit, like he would
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: thinking that I.
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: Was actually just thinking those terms. It sounds like a
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: kindred spirit.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: He would get you, and you would get him, and
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: he would go, mate, what about this?
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: And you go, ah, fuck, let me tell you a
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: story about that.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: And he's always trying to get you know, things up
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: and getting funding and you know the stuff that he
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: does produce though, and it's now it's you know, it's
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: like he goes to the States with two or three
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: camera people and the sound people and a production manager
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: and like the whole you know, it's not like it's
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: a cast of thousands, but it's you know, they spent
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: lots of dough and you know, they've got hundreds of
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: hours of footage. They've got to turn it into a
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: ninety minute docco that is going to be on hopefully
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: some streaming platform.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: And but yeah, we might a way to go.
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah's love to me. Private EQUI is a good way
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: to fund it. That's a nice way to go.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I might we should organize a coffee you and
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: me and him you love him, you too would like
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: each other. Like he's one of those dudes where you're like, ah, you.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: Know some people.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: This is going to sound weird, but I don't want
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: to give you a fat head Tommy, but like some people,
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: you like being around them, Like you walk away feeling
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: more positive and more energized. And it's not a drain,
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: like there are a percentage of people, not a lot
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: that I walk away from them like I feel like
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: I've been just fucking backstroking and quicksand emotional quicksand like
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: sent me out. Yes, but that's hard, and every time
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: it's like, oh god, it's hard.
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: But he's the opposite. But anyway, we'll see if we
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: can hook that up. Mate.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: I love chatting with you. The book is called The
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: Embedded Lie. Everybody.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: I'm super proud of you. You're a gun, You're a
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: good human.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: I love your humility but also your talent and your creativity.
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: Thanks for coming out to play mate, Thanks for chatting
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: to me again, and we love you being on the
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: You project and we're always going to support you and
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: you know we'll get you back again when you're doing
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: your next thing whatever that looks like.
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: I'm just so grateful to you, mate, for this chat.
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: I love it. I love speaking to you. I adore
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: reconnecting with Rob's best mates. For some reason, it really
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: warms my heart. And you're one of them, and I
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: it makes me feel a bit closer to him when
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: I do so. I love that. Supporting my work, Craig,
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: You've been amazing and this book. It's available at my
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: website Peterdison dot com dot au if anyone wants to
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: have a read eye but to you personally, I love
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: chatting with you and I just appreciate it so much, mate.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: Mate, It's a pleasure and it's win win, definitely win win.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: We'll have a chat off here in a minute. But
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: for the moment, mate. The books called the Embedded lie
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: gum By. Christmas is coming, everybody, come by ten.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: I cannot be lazy good if Christmas is coming, just
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: get ten.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: And we'll say goodbye. We'll say goodbye off here in
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: a moment. But for now, mate, thanks for being on
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: the You project.
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: Cheers mate, I appreciate it.