Latest / Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast / BPS 440: Crafting Authentic Stories from Lady Gaga to Sci-Fi Futures with Kim Ray

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BPS 440: Crafting Authentic Stories from Lady Gaga to Sci-Fi Futures with Kim Ray · Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: You are listening to the IFAH podcast Network.
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  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number four forty.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Your dream doesn't have an expiration date, Take a deep
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: breath and try again. KT Whitten broadcasting from a dark,
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  Speaker 1: windowless room in Hollywood.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: When we really should be working on that next draft.
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  Speaker 2: It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and
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  Speaker 2: business of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your
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  Speaker 2: screenplay bulletproof. And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast.
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  Speaker 3: I am your humble host Alex Ferrari.
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  Speaker 1: Now, today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof Script Coverage.
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  Speaker 1: Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: My guest is a writer, producer, and director. She has
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: produced reality TV shows such as MTV's Made. She's been
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  Speaker 3: producer on The X Factor. She's been a producer for
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  Speaker 3: Kendra on Top, which is currently on at sixth season
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  Speaker 3: on we TV, and her current produced project stars a
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  Speaker 3: little known singer named Lady Gaga. You may have heard
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: of her in the documentary Gaga five Foot two, which
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  Speaker 3: is on Netflix right now, which follows Gaga round as
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  Speaker 3: she prepares for her Super Bowl halftime show and just
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  Speaker 3: gives you a sneak peg in her life in general.
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  Speaker 3: With guests Kim Ray, you know, we actually met on Twitter,
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: and I usually meet a lot of people through Twitter
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  Speaker 3: because you produced the new Netflix special Gaga five Foot two,
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  Speaker 3: and you know we got to talking, and I looked
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  Speaker 3: up your IMDb and I'm actually familiar with a lot
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  Speaker 3: of your work. Actually, it was actually funny enough, starting
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: with West Bank Story. I actually remember seeing that years ago,
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: and when I saw that was one of the things
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  Speaker 3: that you produced, I was like, Wow, what a small world. Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: I co wrote it. Yeah, I wrote it with Ari
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  Speaker 4: the director. We were in grad school together at the
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: time at USC, and we had kind of become besties,
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  Speaker 4: and we started an organization at USC for the grads
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  Speaker 4: production students called the Entertainment Industry Network because when we
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: both got there, we started the same semester for the
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: directing program at USC the production program, and there was
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  Speaker 4: no there wasn't a lot of interaction with the other programs,
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  Speaker 4: with the writing program or the producing program, or even
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  Speaker 4: with Hollywood. So we started this organization and kind of
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: mixed everybody up and got everybody going, you know, working
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  Speaker 4: together on different projects so that you know, people from
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  Speaker 4: the producers uh I was with the Peter Stark producing
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: program would get with the writers and they bring directors
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: projects and so it was really successful. And then when
• 3:33
  Speaker 4: it came time for us to do our thesis films,
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: I wrote mine and obviously was directing it, and but
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: I needed an assistant director. I really needed somebody to
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  Speaker 4: run the set. And I was like, you have to
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: be my id, you have no choice. And he's like, well,
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  Speaker 4: help me write my thesis film. He's like, I got nothing.
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  Speaker 4: He's like, I just have an idea. It's called west
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  Speaker 4: Bank Story and maybe it's like a bank in the
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: in the valley, you know, but it's kind of still
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  Speaker 4: like you know, West Side Story within Israeli, but within
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  Speaker 4: Israeli and a Palestinian and we just kind of went
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  Speaker 4: from there and I was like all right, and we
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: just you know, developed and developed. And then one day
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  Speaker 4: and I have never been to Israel and his father,
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  Speaker 4: our's dad is Israeli, so he had been, and I
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  Speaker 4: was like, well, explain it to me, Like what is it, like,
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  Speaker 4: you know, what do they have in common? You know?
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  Speaker 4: And he's like, well, they really just have the food
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  Speaker 4: in common. And you know, for sure, not just but
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  Speaker 4: that's one of the things they have in common, is
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  Speaker 4: the food. And we started talking about and I just
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  Speaker 4: remembered like all of the McDonald's and Burger King wars
• 4:39
  Speaker 4: when I was a kid, and like peptine and coke
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: and all that stuff. I was like, well, what if
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  Speaker 4: it's competing philoscial stands in the West Bank And he
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  Speaker 4: was like, well, that would never happen because there's check
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  Speaker 4: point you know, they're they're not like you can't It's
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  Speaker 4: not like you just walked from one side to the other,
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  Speaker 4: you know. I said, well, what if it was at
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  Speaker 4: a checkpoint? Like He's like, no, that would never happen.
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  Speaker 4: I was like, well, but let's take some creative license here,
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: maybe it could happen. And we just both It was
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: ended up being funny, and at one point we had
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: like Fatima, you know, have a backpack on, like maybe
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: she's a suit side by the Obviously that wasn't funny
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  Speaker 4: and that was we cut that. But you know, we're
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  Speaker 4: just going through ideas of what could be funny and
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  Speaker 4: how it could be a comedy musical. And I had
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  Speaker 4: actually been in a band in college and written a
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  Speaker 4: lot of songs and a lot of poetry, and so
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  Speaker 4: when we finished the script, Arii was like, well, we
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  Speaker 4: have to find a composer, you know, we have to
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  Speaker 4: find somebody to write all the songs. And I was like, well,
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  Speaker 4: why don't we take a stab and he's like, I
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  Speaker 4: don't know anything about writing songs. And I was like, well,
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  Speaker 4: I wasn't a band. Maybe, you know, maybe I could
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  Speaker 4: do writing music. Have you ever written any songs or poetry?
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  Speaker 3: No? No, but believe me, kim note, nobody wants to
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  Speaker 3: see me sing either.
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  Speaker 4: So all right, well it's you know, it's it's kind
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  Speaker 4: of embarrassing, right, Like when you write a song or
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  Speaker 4: a poem and you can write it, it's not embarrassing.
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  Speaker 4: It's like, you know, you're putting your emotions on paper,
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  Speaker 4: but as soon as you say it out loud or
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  Speaker 4: you sing it, it's kind of like there's a there's
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: a certain it's you're being very vulnerable, you know, to
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  Speaker 4: whoever's listening. You're it's a very you're in a very
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  Speaker 4: vulnerable moment because you're sharing with them something that you
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  Speaker 4: felt emotionally or you know, that you put on paper
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  Speaker 4: and now it's coming out in this kind of in
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  Speaker 4: this this emotional way. And so I took a stab
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  Speaker 4: at writing one of the songs. In fact, I wrote
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  Speaker 4: the love the Love song first, the lyrics, and I
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: sent it to Ari like you might hate this is
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  Speaker 4: my view, horrible blah blah blah, and I just remember
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: like waiting to hear back because I emailed it over
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  Speaker 4: and we were really good friends. That wasn't like I
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: was embarrassed to him, but I still it was just like,
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  Speaker 4: you know, I had been this this emotional kind of
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  Speaker 4: love song, and it took him a while to get
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  Speaker 4: back to me, which was probably like five hours, you know,
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  Speaker 4: but still it felt like an eternity. And then he
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: was like, okay, I gave it to my mom. And
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  Speaker 4: Ari is very much like he was in a fraternity
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  Speaker 4: in some ways, he's kind of like a dude. And
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: he was like, okay, well give it to my mom,
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  Speaker 4: and my mom really liked it. Sounds really good. I think,
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  Speaker 4: let's just try to write the songs. And this is ash.
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  Speaker 4: We had gotten to so many composers, and I kept
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  Speaker 4: telling him because all the composers we met with they
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  Speaker 4: were good composers, but I just didn't think they'd be
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  Speaker 4: good lyricist, but they would write the right songs. And
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  Speaker 4: I felt, as the writers, we really needed to write them,
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  Speaker 4: and so and so we did and it was a
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  Speaker 4: really rewarding experience making that and writing it and yeah,
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  Speaker 4: and then you know, seeing it come to Fruition. Was
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  Speaker 4: it was a really great It was a really great experience. So, yeah,
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  Speaker 4: music has always been a big part of my life,
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  Speaker 4: so you know that that film is kind of just
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  Speaker 4: an extension of that.
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  Speaker 3: So when you were putting this all together and you
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  Speaker 3: finally were able to make it and was able to
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  Speaker 3: view it, did did they finally understand the idea behind
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  Speaker 3: the competing flaffel stands?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, they did, they did. And it was fun casting
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  Speaker 4: it too, because you know, on the Israeli side, we
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  Speaker 4: had more freedom because we could cast you know, people
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  Speaker 4: who were supposed to be Russian or you know, like
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  Speaker 4: people from all over you know that go who are
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  Speaker 4: Jewish who go to Israel to live there. You know.
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  Speaker 4: So yeah, it was it was actually, it was a
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  Speaker 4: lot of fun making it and casting it, and yeah,
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  Speaker 4: and seeing it, having people see it. It was scary
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  Speaker 4: at first because you know, you really hope that people
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  Speaker 4: aren't offended and that people get it and they understand
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  Speaker 4: that it's a peaceful you know, it's a message of
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  Speaker 4: peace and hope and we're all alike, and why do
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  Speaker 4: we have to have these wars and why do we
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  Speaker 4: have to have so much hatred and so yeah, there
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  Speaker 4: was a little bit of fear at first, but then
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  Speaker 4: everybody kind of embraced it. And this day, like anytime
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  Speaker 4: I made a Palestinian they've seen the movie, so random
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  Speaker 4: or a lot of Israeli, yeah, or Israeli they've seen
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  Speaker 4: the movie. So it was shown a lot over there,
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  Speaker 4: and Ari went over there a lot with it, and yeah,
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  Speaker 4: it was a popular short film, especially in the Middle
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  Speaker 4: East of parents.
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  Speaker 3: And that's awesome, by the way, because I was actually
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  Speaker 3: going to ask you about the reception of like how
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: they actually responded to it, because you know, you know, nowadays,
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: whenever somebody makes anything, I mean and look, you just
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: touched on you know there, you did fear for a
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: little for even a split second. You know, how are
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: people going to respond to this? Is there going to
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: be some bad backlash? Is there even going to be
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: any backlash? You know, as you sort of because that
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: was like two thousand and four, two thousand and five,
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: as we go forward to today, you know, I do
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: you think things are are more sensitive now? In terms
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: of if you were trying, like, let's just say, Kim,
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: you were trying to make the West Bank story right now,
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  Speaker 3: do you think that you'd have a lot more backlash.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: and now back to the show.
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: That's a good question. I don't know. I mean, there's
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: still not peace in the Middle East, you know what
• 10:11
  Speaker 4: I mean, So, uh, you know, maybe maybe not. I
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: think I think people are always looking for a positive message.
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: I really believe that, you know, and I think everybody,
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: everybody kind of does. I mean one of the first,
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: you know, even like internet stuff. It's like, you know,
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: you want to keep your message inspirational, what people say
• 10:36
  Speaker 4: about when you're trying to market yourself or whatever. I
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: think I think people who are who have a positive
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: message or kind of beacons in in the world wind
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: right now because we are so divided and there's so
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: much you know, anger and frustration and you know, starting
• 10:56
  Speaker 4: with you know, our president. It's I don't know, I
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: think it would be I think it'd be received just
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: as well today.
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: Actually, yeah, you know, it's funny because it's Halloween. We're
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: recording this on Halloween, and I said to somebody today
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: they said, oh, Dave, I didn't dress up. And I said, well,
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: you can be a millennial and just be offended at everything. Uh,
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: but you know, it was it was a funny joke,
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: you know, because I mean I'm a millennial too. It's
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: just it's it's just you know, it was just funny though.
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: And but but uh, you know, I just you know,
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: when when we look out in the country today and
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: even you know, and it's amazing, Kim, how fast everything
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: has sort of changed, not only in film, but you
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: know in the in the world. You know, cell phones
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: are are so fast. And and what I'm going with
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: this is, you know, everyone sort of knows news as
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: it happens. You know, as soon as something happens, you
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: get a notification on Twitter or what have you, and
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: it's you know, we become almost innundated with this, and uh,
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: you know, and that's why I think sometimes people get
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: a little more sensitive about things because it seems like
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: that's all it's happening, if that's all you're looking for,
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: do you know you know what I mean?
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I do. I Actually, you know, I was
• 12:06
  Speaker 4: a huge fan of Hillary Clinton. I'm I followed her
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: since I was in college and you know, read all
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: of her speeches and really, you know, I'm the type
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: of first I'd go down the rabbit hole. You know,
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: I do all the research. I you know, I really
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: want to know who she was years ago, and really
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: followed the campaign really closely. And a friend of mine
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: is a PhD in what he's getting his PhD a
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: UCLA for. I want to say it's called information system,
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: but I can be completely religning that. Basically he studies
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: the Internet and and he's also a journalist for in Denmark.
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: He lives here in Los Angeles, and you know, so
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: I was really aware from him and also from a
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: project that I did with Christ mccarvel. He's the director
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: of the Gaga film. I did what we were we
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: did kind of like a pilot first show, uh that
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: that was about Internet culture and just various things about
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: about the Internet. And the pilot that we did was
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: about Russian trolls and Russian troll farms and what in
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: particular they had tried to start this emergency situation in
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: a small town Louisiana, and so we kind of followed
• 13:25
  Speaker 4: that story. And then throughout the election, my friend was
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: you know, alerting me to all the Russian ads that were,
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: you know, how Russians were meddling in the election, especially
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: in Wisconsin and Michigan and what was happening there, and
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: so I got really addicted in the news, you know,
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: I mean, if I hadn't already been, it was really
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: addicuous news and just hyper inflamed by everything I read,
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: you know, especially you know, if it was coming from
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: you know, the Trump camp or whatever. And but once, once,
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: once the election happened, I really I just kind of stopped.
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: And because what happened was this thing that had never
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: happened before, and there have been studies done on this
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: and things written about it. You can look it up.
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: I started, I have you know, I have a I
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: have the Apple Aggregator for news on my phone like
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: everybody within my phone or whatever program they use that
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: aggregates the news from all my favorite sources. So you know,
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: I do New York Times, Wired, Magazine, CNN, you know,
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: you name it. And all of a sudden, the word
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: Trump started showing up, like every single article Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump.
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: And I had never you know, we're all addicted to
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: the news, but I had never seen one name cover
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: all of my news feeds before. And and again it
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: was a phenomena, right, like, again, this is something that's
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: been studied. He the amount of news coverage that he's
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: gotten since pretty much right before the election and post
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: the election goes beyond the pale. I mean, it supersedes
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: any other figure who's ever been covered by the news.
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: And it's been sustained, you know, obviously in part because
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: of the egregious things that he said done, the lives
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: that he's told, blah blah blah blah, on and on.
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: It's all newsworthy. But I just kind of, you know,
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: wrapped my head around that was like, I'm kind of
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: peace outing the news as much as I can. And
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: because I was so angry, I was angry on my
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: social media fee. I was angry, and I just something
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: just snaps at me, and I was just like, it's
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: the world isn't going to change if I whether or
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: not I read every single news article, you know what
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: I mean, Like, it's not I'm you know, I grew
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: up in an era of newspapers where you read the
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: newspaper pretty much when I leave in New York especially,
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: I just read it on Sunday, get the New York
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: Times on Sunday and it so it wasn't so hard
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: for me to kind of turn it off or not.
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: I don't think I needed it, but I think I
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: definitely turned it down, way down, because it's just not
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: life is too short of my lawn.
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: Response to that, I agree, you know, it's I stopped.
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: You know, Facebook to me was was like was my
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: version of your Apple aggregator on your iPhone. I would
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: log onto Facebook and I made a very stupid mistake, Kim.
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: I would log on Facebook first thing in the morning
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: when I woke up.
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: No, same same thanks, because you're laying in bed, right
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: and you're waking up, and the first thing you do
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: is you go to your phone. Yeah, no, I'm with you,
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: uh huh and with you.
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: It's It's all it was was bad news on top
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: of bad news on top of more like terrible news,
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: and I go, why am I subjecting myself to this? Like,
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: you know, you know, for you know, what could I
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: do about North Korea? You know, what can I do
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: about this or that or the other thing? And I
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: started to realize, you know, the less I was on Facebook,
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: the better, and Twitter I can control a lot more.
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: And Facebook, it's just like it was so finally I
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: just stopped it all together, and you know what, Kim might,
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: Gradually I got happier again. I stopped having to worry
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: about this stuff, because I mean, at the end of
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: the day, you're just gonna say, if it's happens, it happens,
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: and there's nothing that you know, we could do about it,
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: so you stop really worrying about it. I mean, I
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: have a friend of mine who goes on Facebook, and
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: he used to do a lot of movie stuff, and
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: all of a sudden, he just he's like obsessed now
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: with like going on Facebook and like seeing all this
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: news and posting all this and he he's guilty to
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: a posting fake news. And I'm like, you know, what
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: is that going to do for you? At the end
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: of the day, you posted a news article that is
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: most likely not true. What is that going to do
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: for you? You know, It's just I don't see what
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: the point of that is.
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think it's one thing to be
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: intelligently informed and to check different sources. It's something interests
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: you or disturbs you. It's just another thing to like
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: you say, you know, be pouring through Facebook every morning
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: and then pouring through the news and spending an hour
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: going through all this stuff. For several hours a day,
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: It's just it's too much. On the flip side, I
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: have to say, the good thing about the Internet and
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: this dissemination of information has been you know, all of
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: the sexual harassment stories coming out over the last year,
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: especially you know the most recent Weinstein story, because these
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: women had no place to go before. They couldn't go
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: to human resources, they couldn't go to their boss, they
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: couldn't go anywhere. And now they can go to the Internet.
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: And even if it's just like, hey, this happened to
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: me and the other person's like, hey, it's happened to
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: me too, Even if it's two people, it's powerful. But
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: when it becomes thirty forty, fifty sixty people women who
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: are like, hey, this happened to me, it all and
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: then you start seeing how all the stories are eerily similar.
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: That's when I think that's when social media and the
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: dissemination of data become important. And in the entertainment industry
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: it's also I came at USC in two thousand and five,
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: and I had an agent at UTA, an agent and
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: manager and a lawyer, and I was doing really well
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: in the beginning of my career. But and I write
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: big budget sci fi action, primarily that's what I write,
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: and that's what I'm interested in. And I had all
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: these various projects, you know, semi development or almost sold
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: or whatever, but I just I wasn't stealing the deal.
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: And it was really fruscating because I would walk in,
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: you know, to these producers' offices.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: and now back to the show, and.
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: I just and they were all men. I never, I
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: think once or twice I ever met with a woman,
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: but you know, all these executives and producers, and it
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: was never I was never like feeling the deal. And
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: I really, you know, I like to think of myself
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: as good in a room. I like to think of
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: myselfself as personable. I like to think of myself as
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: a good writer, as a good you know, filmmaker in general.
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: But I just it wasn't happening, and I got you know,
• 20:36
  Speaker 4: I was getting really down on it. And that's kind
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: of actually. You know, the film industry obviously was changing,
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: right this is before Netflix was doing their own content
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: and studios were only putting out like eight movies a year.
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: Like the film industry was was changing, that's undeniable. But
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: a few years ago, data started coming out and statistics
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: started coming out out for those years in terms of
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: how many women writers were getting hired to write feature films,
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: how many women writers were selling spec scripts, how many
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: women writers were getting hired for writing rooms, how many
• 21:16
  Speaker 4: scripts were selling that had female protagonists, And the numbers
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: didn't lie. The numbers. Excusing the numbers reflected my personal experience,
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: which was that the doors, the door to entry was
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: shut and very few women were getting through. And it actually,
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: in some ways it was profoundly depressing, but in other
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: ways it was profoundly encouraging because I stopped blaming myself,
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: you know, I stopped thinking, oh, it's just because you
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: weren't talented enough, or you weren't you know, enough of
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: sales person to sell your idea, or you know, you
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: couldn't communicate, you know, what your pitch was, or your
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: concept or this or that it was. It was because
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: there was a bias, whether it was conscious, unconscious, whatever
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: it was, there was a bias against women. And there
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: still is. You know, I think the stories of the
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: Harvey Weinstein whatever whatever, that's the most horrific example, right,
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: But then you look at all the microaggressions and the
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: microaggressions exist in the data that show how many female directors.
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: And I was just going up for a lot of
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: writing stuff, forget directing. And my degree from USC my
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: MFA is in dress directing. My undergrad from University of
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: Michigan is in film. And I still like I didn't
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: even I wasn't even trying that hard to direct. I mean,
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: I actually ended up getting a job. I was working
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: as a commercial director for production company Advertising Company for
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: three years, which was great while going out out and
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: trying to sell you know, bigger projects, but it's you know,
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: I think, you know, there's I guess My point is
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: that there's good and bad in the dissemination of news
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: and social media and all that stuff. And it's like,
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: you know, it keeps us aware, but it can also
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: be like you say, debilitating, So it has its It
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: definitely has an upside and then it also has a downside,
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: you know, Like I know, looking at all the hashtag
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: me too over the last few weeks has been completely depressing,
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: but also one hundred percent you know, it needed to
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: be seen, you know what I mean?
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I do, do you know what you mean? Cam?
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: You know, I think also You're right. That is a
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: good you know, a a benefit of social media is
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: that you can you can not only share this news
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: out like again, Harvey Weinstein, how that whole thing broke
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: And basically, if it wasn't for social media being as
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: strong as it was, you know, would we be able
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: to get it out there? Would he even be facing charges?
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: You know, if it wasn't as strong, social media wasn't
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: as strong as it was. You know, I actually had
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: Kasian it was I'm sure I just puted his last
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: name again on the podcast. I don't know if you
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: know Kasian, but Kasian is the producer Dallas Buyers Club,
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: the New Sun Dance, Hits mud a mud Bound excuse me,
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: and he actually our whole episode. We talked a lot
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: about this about he looked at all the numbers of
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: like you know, director of film product projects and you know,
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: directed and written by women, and the number was like
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: seven percent, I think he said. And he actually actually
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: that that that's like his whole thing now is making
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: more opportunities for for women because he wants to actually
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: improve those numbers. And that's all. So, by the way,
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: if you if you're interested, I'm just gonna sorry. Not
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: to segue, but I'm just gonna say I was gonna
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: say that the whole episode that actually just aired right
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: now on Halloween. That's all it is is is it's
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: all we talk a lot about that. He's actually launched.
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: He actually helped launch uh the Horizon Award, which sends
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: to film uh two filmmakers, two women filmmakers, to sun Dance.
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's just you know this guy, Yeah, I mean, seriously, man.
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: Good for him, because you know what, at the end
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: of the day, it's like all these women are out
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: there trying to like, you know, trying to say, oh,
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: we're going to hire our women. But at the end
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: of the day, man are is still in charge. So
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: they're the ones who have to do what he's doing,
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: you know, not that they're one hundred percent still in charge.
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: It's changing. But if you're going to really change a
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: power dynamic, obviously those in power have to you know,
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: put forth some kind of effort. And people really, I
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: think people really want to do that, right, you really
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: want to give away the keys of the kingdomn But
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: good on him, and he's like, you know, doing that,
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: that's awesome.
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, great guy. By the way, and I will. Yeah,
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: by the way, I'll give you guys a Twitter intro.
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: I think you're you're really like that, no serious Twitter
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: is I'm telling you, Kim, Twitter is one of the
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: best networking tools around and it's free, you know. I mean, look,
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: we've met over TWI yeah.
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah, no, that's a really good point.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: So, you know, just to continue with your with your career, Kim.
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: I see you did The X Factor, by the way,
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: which I know you you music has always been a
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: huge part of your life. So I see you did
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: The X Factor in twenty twelve, and I wanted to ask,
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: you know, how did you, you know, get into producing
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: The X Factor.
• 26:29
  Speaker 4: I had worked with one of the showrunners for The
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: X Factor on another project, and she got on X
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: Factor and she's like, we need we need people like
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: you who can who can write, you know, who can
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: do story. Because initially they were going to try they
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: were trying to kind of revamp the show a little
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: bit so that there would be the packages on the
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: people who were competing and who were auditioning would be
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: a little more beefed up. And because honestly, in so
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: many ways, like that's that's the heart of the show, right,
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: are these people who have these dream of being a
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: musician and they're just and you see, you know, you
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: look into their lives and you see like how hard
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: they've been trying to do this and for how long
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: And a lot of them, you know, started as children
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: and have you know, gone to Nashville or la or
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: you know, New York and you know, really sung those
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: little hearts out. You know, I really tried musicians. So
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: being on the show was such a huge deal for them.
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: So they brought me on to to put together the
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: packages on those people. Primarily I managed other things, but
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: with the talent, with Britney Spears and whatever, but that
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: was my main thing. And yeah, it was. It was
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: really heartwarming actually, and the show is the show was
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: a machine. I mean it was I don't I don't
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: even know how many editors were working on that show.
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: I want to say twenty big show. It's a really
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: big show. So yeah, it was. It was an interesting experience.
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I was gonna say, there there must be like
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: a million people that show. Uh. It came out like
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: a bullet too, because you know, all of a sudden,
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: it was like every uh, every time I turned around,
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: I saw something about The X Factor. I saw, uh
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: you know, like a commercial for it, a billboard for it.
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: Uh you know, I saw ads on Facebook. I mean
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: that that that show had so much going behind it
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: just in marketing. Uh you know what I mean. Like
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: that's why I'm always like the shows like that, And
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: it's it's an indicator too, because something has that much
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: money in it has to be, you know, what, the
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: what the network wanted, you know what I mean, it
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: has to be something that they view they feel is
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: a is a viable product. So I mean, so it
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: is producing for for like live TV like that X
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: I know you also after that, you've done a couple
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: other of TV series like Kendra on Top and Good
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: Food America. So when when you're producing like live TV,
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: you know, was that any adjustment or any for for
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: you of any kind because you know it's there really
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: is no takebacks or edits, so to speak.
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, on for the live portion of Ascager,
• 29:08
  Speaker 4: so there was a live portion, and there was all
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: the stuff that we did beforehand, and so but the
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: live portion there's like a thirty second or minute delay.
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: So everybody, you know, everybody again being a fine you know,
• 29:22
  Speaker 4: finally owned machine. Everybody has all of their kind of
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: all of their their roles that they play, and the
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: show wasn't always lied because sometimes I'm trying to think, yeah,
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: it wasn't all Oh, I'm thinking of the auditions, okay,
• 29:38
  Speaker 4: because I'm just trying to think, cause we had to
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: cut together. At one point, we literally cut together for
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: the audition part, which was you know, the kind of
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: like the not live part. Reaction shots for Britney Spears
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: and Simon and I'm playing here on her name.
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a whord from our sponsor
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: and now back to the show, Paula that.
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: We would reuse. That we would reuse over and over
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: again because we didn't have enough reactions, but we're good,
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: you know, so we'd end up reusing their reactions, which
• 30:18
  Speaker 4: is really funny. But for the live shows, yeah, there
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: was a slight delay. It was a CBS studios and
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: it was very you know, it was very choreographed, like
• 30:28
  Speaker 4: everybody knew, you know, exactly what what they were doing,
• 30:32
  Speaker 4: and you know, there were there were honestly, there were
• 30:35
  Speaker 4: some surprises, but kind of very few surprises.
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: So so basically when you when you go through like yeah,
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: working inside of uh The X Factor. When you got out,
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: when you I'm sorry, make it seel like you're in jail.
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: I'm sorry, let me rephrase that question.
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: We got jail really well. I mean, you know, like
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: I said, reality in doc TV was never my focus.
• 30:59
  Speaker 4: It just it just kind of happened because it was
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: I was having a really hard time getting into script
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: getting getting directing, you know, getting directing work, and getting
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: hired as a writer. So it was and it came
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: really easy, you know, it was you know, it was
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: just it was just very easy for me to do.
• 31:17
  Speaker 4: It was like riding a bike. It was not difficult.
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: But go ahead, before I I I was, I was, uh,
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: you know, uh, making it seem like you were in jail.
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: So after you, you know, you were you got done
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: producing The X Factor and you went into producing Kendron
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: Top and uh, you know, also Good Food America and
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: Sex On. So when you were producing these are all episodics,
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: did you sort of see Kim like how things were
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: sort of progressing in terms of, you know, all the
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: top talented people were moving you know, out of out
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: of the film industry and now, as they say, all
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: the all the top talented people are working in a
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: TV industry.
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, I I know people.
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: I have a friend who went to Princeton undergrad and
• 32:06
  Speaker 4: went to USC grad for screenwriting and is now one
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: of the executive producers on vander Pump Rules, Like you know,
• 32:16
  Speaker 4: but he's one of the reasons I have no doubt
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: that the show is successful because he's a brilliant, talented person,
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: you know, And that even though these shows are not
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: you know, a House of Cards, there's still they require storytelling,
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: and they require a lot of you know, filmic kind
• 32:38
  Speaker 4: of films, you know, a lot of skills. And that
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: really did happen in like around two thousand. It's just say, like,
• 32:51
  Speaker 4: you know, once the recession hit in like two thousand
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: and eight, two thousand and nine, film opportunity to really
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: start drawing up, and my managers set down. He's like,
• 33:00
  Speaker 4: you have to write television now. I was like, what
• 33:04
  Speaker 4: are you talking about, Like I just finished film school,
• 33:07
  Speaker 4: Like why don't I don't want to write television? And
• 33:10
  Speaker 4: you know, at the time, like I mean, Sopranos, I
• 33:13
  Speaker 4: think had just ended. The wire had been on, but
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: there wasn't a lot of you know, great there wasn't
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: a ton of everything had to be at that at
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: that point standalone. You know, people didn't want the sopranos
• 33:25
  Speaker 4: per se, or they didn't want the Wire. They didn't
• 33:27
  Speaker 4: want something that you know, told a story over a season,
• 33:32
  Speaker 4: and you know, and like anything else TV, it was
• 33:34
  Speaker 4: hard to get into. There wasn't as much of it
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: as there is now. Blah blah blah blah. So yeah,
• 33:38
  Speaker 4: Reality came in and everybody just kind of went that
• 33:42
  Speaker 4: way because it was easier to get jobs on reality
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: and if you knew how to write a script or
• 33:49
  Speaker 4: had any kind of production experience, it was it was easy.
• 33:53
  Speaker 4: So yeah, a lot of a lot of talent went
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: to reality and dark stuff. And Kendra on Top was
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: actually really funny because I hate Hugh Hefner. I hate,
• 34:08
  Speaker 4: and I don't. I'm you know, I'm a feminist who
• 34:12
  Speaker 4: believes he putting women in bunny ears and little outfits
• 34:18
  Speaker 4: and making them look really fuckable was not an advancement
• 34:21
  Speaker 4: for women. And but I got a call story produced
• 34:27
  Speaker 4: on the show called Kendra on Top, and I had
• 34:29
  Speaker 4: no idea who Kendra Wilkinson was. I had never watched
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: The Girl's next Door and obviously I hate Hugh Heffner,
• 34:36
  Speaker 4: so you know, I was like, well, I don't really
• 34:39
  Speaker 4: think i'm a good good for that, and the person's like, no, really,
• 34:43
  Speaker 4: you should go in and just just check it out.
• 34:45
  Speaker 4: You know, she's actually, you know, her story it's a
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: light show. It's kind of a comedy, and you know
• 34:51
  Speaker 4: she's she's you know, she's married as a kid, and
• 34:54
  Speaker 4: it's not that kind of show, and she's kind of,
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: you know, a tough chick. So it's like, okay, So
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: I went in and got the job and had never
• 35:05
  Speaker 4: really story produced per se, and which basically, do you
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: know what story producing is? Yeah, So it's just basically
• 35:13
  Speaker 4: you're taking the footage that was shot and cutting it
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: into what is essentially kind of like the rough cut
• 35:21
  Speaker 4: that that's the that's then going to be given to
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: the editor. So I did that. It was the first
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: I was given the first episode of the first season
• 35:30
  Speaker 4: of the show. So it was a new show that
• 35:33
  Speaker 4: she was doing for we TV. Previously she had been
• 35:36
  Speaker 4: a e TV. So the network was really you know,
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: kind of putting it through its paces, as they do
• 35:42
  Speaker 4: when it's you know, a pilot, when it's you know,
• 35:45
  Speaker 4: it's the first show of a season, and I got
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: kind of close with the very eccentric executive producer of
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: the show. And and by close, I just mean he
• 35:59
  Speaker 4: would scream at me a little less than he screams
• 36:01
  Speaker 4: everybody else because he was a screamer, and we got along,
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: you know, I was able to get along with him
• 36:09
  Speaker 4: for whatever reason. And but the guy who was my boss,
• 36:14
  Speaker 4: the supervising story producer who works that position, works really
• 36:18
  Speaker 4: closely with the field in crafting the stories and making
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: sure that you know the stories are are you know
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: that everything it's in the story is shot, and that
• 36:26
  Speaker 4: you know episodes track from episode to episode and across
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: the entire season, or character arcs or story arcs, all
• 36:32
  Speaker 4: that stuff. That guy, within like two or three weeks,
• 36:35
  Speaker 4: really great guy named Kevin I'm still friends with, couldn't
• 36:40
  Speaker 4: take couldn't take the environment at that production company anymore,
• 36:44
  Speaker 4: and quit just walk like just no notice. It's just
• 36:48
  Speaker 4: like I can't do this anymore. And so they tapped
• 36:51
  Speaker 4: me whatever even again never even story produced, and they
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: were like, well, you be the supervising story producer on
• 36:58
  Speaker 4: the show, and I was like, sure, yeah, of course,
• 37:02
  Speaker 4: you know, and then called Kevin I'm like, Okay, what
• 37:04
  Speaker 4: am I supposed to do as a supersizing story producer?
• 37:07
  Speaker 4: And he basically told me. I was like, okay, all right,
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: and it was It was easy and it was fun.
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: I don't watch reality TV. I the only episodes of
• 37:16
  Speaker 4: Kendra on Top I've ever seen are the ones that
• 37:19
  Speaker 4: we made. But it was fun to make it, you know,
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: it was It was kind of fun television to make it,
• 37:25
  Speaker 4: and I ended up doing it for two seasons because
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: I was at the time writing this kind of in depth,
• 37:33
  Speaker 4: intense sci fi script feature script, and it was great.
• 37:37
  Speaker 4: It was a great job to have I was writing.
• 37:40
  Speaker 4: So that's kend.
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: So can I have to ask, when you touched on
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: somebody who was a real big screamer, how do you
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: handle situations like that? You know, everyone has sort of
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: a different idea of how to handle that, where somebody
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: who maybe is your boss or maybe someone who is
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: your coworker, they're just very hard to handle on a
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: film that h How were you able to handle and
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: handle it so well?
• 38:07
  Speaker 4: I just it was a combination of just waiting it
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: out and or getting up and leaving at one point
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: I did in that first season. I just got up
• 38:20
  Speaker 4: and left and I was just like, I'm done, and
• 38:25
  Speaker 4: his kind of second guy in charge or whatever like
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: called me repeatedly on the way home. Please don't quit,
• 38:33
  Speaker 4: Please don't quit. He's so sorry, Please don't leave. And
• 38:38
  Speaker 4: I was just like, I can't. I just I can't.
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: You know, that's it's completely inappropriate, the yelling. And I
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: don't know if he had said something personal or I
• 38:47
  Speaker 4: don't remember what it was. But and then the guy
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: himself called and apologized, and I was like, okay, whatever,
• 38:57
  Speaker 4: I guess, I guess I'll go back. And then you know,
• 39:01
  Speaker 4: of course, like all cereal whatever whatever. He was nice
• 39:04
  Speaker 4: after that. I think, you know, entertainment business is a
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: tough business, and I think any business, whether they're you know,
• 39:15
  Speaker 4: there was a good McSweeney's thing recently saying, you know,
• 39:19
  Speaker 4: if women you know, are you familiar with mc sweeney's. Yeah, yeah,
• 39:25
  Speaker 4: everything's all tongue in cheek, and it was like, kind
• 39:27
  Speaker 4: of you know, if women can't handle the entertainment business,
• 39:29
  Speaker 4: they should get out. You know, it is kind of
• 39:31
  Speaker 4: funny they can't handle, you know, having meetings in a
• 39:35
  Speaker 4: hotel room. You know that, you know, instead of you know,
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: at a table then you know, they're too sensitive and
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: they should get out. And then it was like, you know,
• 39:43
  Speaker 4: maybe they should go into television, you know, like talking
• 39:46
  Speaker 4: about like Bill Bill O'Reilly and you know, and maybe
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: they can't handle television, maybe they should go into tech,
• 39:52
  Speaker 4: you know, And then it goes into tech where the
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: guy next to you is like, you know, writing an
• 39:56
  Speaker 4: essay on why women are inferior, and you know, women
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: are getting hit on when they're pitch their app ideas
• 40:01
  Speaker 4: and if you don't want to do tech, you should
• 40:02
  Speaker 4: go to politics.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: and now back to the show.
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: You know, we're the president of the United States, and
• 40:16
  Speaker 4: you know, saying grab them by their pussy. So it
• 40:18
  Speaker 4: was just it was really hilarious and it kind of
• 40:21
  Speaker 4: it kind of detailed like I think women have it
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: tough obviously in every industry, and there's I don't know,
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: maybe there's more of a put up with it miss
• 40:35
  Speaker 4: that women have. Uh, I don't know, but yeah, I
• 40:41
  Speaker 4: mean typically if somebody, this particular person I felt was
• 40:47
  Speaker 4: at the end of the day harmless and just kind
• 40:51
  Speaker 4: of crazy, and it wasn't. Uh. I was never sexually
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: harassed or anything like that. It wasn't that kind of
• 40:58
  Speaker 4: thing at all. I think if I'd ever felt actually,
• 41:02
  Speaker 4: I did work at Miramax back in the day when
• 41:05
  Speaker 4: I first started, and did walk away with a check
• 41:13
  Speaker 4: because the environment was a sexist environment, and at the time,
• 41:17
  Speaker 4: I just I went into the guy was working for
• 41:20
  Speaker 4: who It's funny this guy has now come out and said, oh,
• 41:22
  Speaker 4: it's so crazy that Harvey wants he was acting this way.
• 41:25
  Speaker 4: I walked through the office and says, you know, it's
• 41:26
  Speaker 4: obvious I'm not the kind of assistant that you want.
• 41:28
  Speaker 4: Maybe you should just you know, write me at check
• 41:31
  Speaker 4: and I'll leave. And he handed me a check request
• 41:34
  Speaker 4: I walked it down to account's payable and I left
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: that company. It was a horrible company and everybody knew it.
• 41:41
  Speaker 4: So yeah, no, I think I think it depends on
• 41:45
  Speaker 4: the situation. I think there are certain types of situations
• 41:47
  Speaker 4: I would never stand for. You know, I would never
• 41:52
  Speaker 4: stand for to be sexually harassed in an environment. But
• 41:55
  Speaker 4: screamers and you know, emotional people who are creatives who
• 41:59
  Speaker 4: lose their their ship from time to time. That kind
• 42:02
  Speaker 4: of just comes with the territory with creative people. They're
• 42:05
  Speaker 4: not always the most professional business types that you're ever
• 42:12
  Speaker 4: going to deal with, you know, same with talent, you know,
• 42:14
  Speaker 4: you never I mean, I don't know. Creative types are
• 42:17
  Speaker 4: just more emotional and there's a part of it that
• 42:19
  Speaker 4: you just kind of got to accept that and roll
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: with it.
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I concur there's the worst person I've ever had
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: to work with was a director of cinematography who, uh, well,
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: it's actually tossed up to the worst person I worked with,
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: but mine was a director of cinematography who thought that
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: he was God's gift to everybody.
• 42:41
  Speaker 4: And oh, yeah that guy, Yeah, that guy.
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: Guy, you work with them too, all right, No, no,
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: just but y'all know that guy. Yeah, well exactly right.
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: Everyone's got a story about that guy. But uh, what
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: happened was he actually was was like kindes setting to everybody.
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: So finally I call him over and he and I started,
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: you know, I said to him, did did is there
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: something wrong? Is there did somebody say something to you?
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: Is there something that happened? Let's just talk this out.
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: And he basically took that as I wanted to fight him.
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: I just yeah, and I was like, and I said,
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: are you serious right now? And finally this it was
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: we were just about the day was just about over anyway,
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: and we just broke early that day and I said,
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: this guy is never coming back. It's got to we
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: got to make a decision. I went to the producers
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: and I said, you have to make a decision. Either
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: he goes or I go, like this is absolutely terrible,
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: and uh, they chose me, and they were like, yeah,
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: we're we're we don't like him either, because apparently he
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: mouthed off to them too. And I'm like, oh good,
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: we all hate him. We were in agreements, all right.
• 43:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah, him out of here. Yeah, so it didn't come
• 43:45
  Speaker 4: to fist a cups. You didn't have to like, no,
• 43:48
  Speaker 4: you didn't have to fight him.
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: No, no, I have to fight him. That god, because
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: we were in a public place too, so it wouldn't
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: have gone well for anybody. It would have been. Uh
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: it wasn't like on like a closed set. It was
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: like we were in all the open, so in a
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: public place, so we would have gotten and we have
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: permission to shoot and everything like that. It's just that,
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: you know, uh, two guys fighting in the middle of
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: Philadelphia doesn't really bode well.
• 44:09
  Speaker 4: But right right, yeah, no, that's The other thing, right,
• 44:15
  Speaker 4: is that in addition to emotions and feelings, you have egos,
• 44:19
  Speaker 4: right that you know that some people their egos get
• 44:23
  Speaker 4: out of whack, and whether it's because there they have
• 44:27
  Speaker 4: a ton of self doubt you know, buried underneath, or
• 44:31
  Speaker 4: because they think they're too good for the situation or
• 44:36
  Speaker 4: the film or the project or you know whatever. Which again,
• 44:40
  Speaker 4: if they think that, it's probably just all boiled down
• 44:42
  Speaker 4: to self doubt. But yeah, it's it's it's tough. It's
• 44:46
  Speaker 4: a tough business and a lot of times, you know,
• 44:48
  Speaker 4: especially you know in film and TV, and I need
• 44:52
  Speaker 4: to tell you, you know, people are calling in favors or
• 44:56
  Speaker 4: there's I don't know, there's there's always a million different
• 44:59
  Speaker 4: things going on with every single person that's on set.
• 45:02
  Speaker 4: And you've either become like a family in a few weeks,
• 45:07
  Speaker 4: a happy family, or you become a really dysfunctional, angry family,
• 45:11
  Speaker 4: you know, depending on the crew.
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: So usually yeah, usually for me, it's the latter, where
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: we become like this cpuctural family. Yeah, you love to
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: hate him and hate to love him, so it's.
• 45:22
  Speaker 4: Right, yeah, exactly exactly, But boy do you miss him
• 45:25
  Speaker 4: and you see him on Facebook You're like, oh my god,
• 45:28
  Speaker 4: like what he just pensted? I love that guy, you know,
• 45:30
  Speaker 4: yeah two years later?
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, right, because you end up being ends up
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: being a small world and uh, you know, as you
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: should have go from project to project and and and
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: you sort of meet all these familiar faces. But but
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: you know, Kim, I wanted to ask, and this is
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: the you know, we actually met because I saw, you know,
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: this project being tweeted out, and I wanted to ask
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: how you got involved with Gaga five foot two? Uh,
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: Lady Gaga? Obviously I'm not even gonna I mean should
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: I think everyone listening knows who she is? Unlet's even
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: under a rock for the past. Yeah, yeah, I think
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: everybody knows the Lady Gaga is. So I wanted to ask, Kim,
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: you know, how did you get involved with the with
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: the project.
• 46:09
  Speaker 4: So Chris mccarvil, the director, and I had worked together
• 46:13
  Speaker 4: on sex On. So we met on the HBO show Sexon,
• 46:18
  Speaker 4: which is a show about how sex and relationships exist
• 46:22
  Speaker 4: online and with technology. So it was all about like,
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: you know, sex, relationships, love and technology. And he and
• 46:31
  Speaker 4: I are both super into music and technology and the
• 46:36
  Speaker 4: Internet and sci fi, and we were kind of a
• 46:39
  Speaker 4: love fest when we first met. And so after sex On,
• 46:45
  Speaker 4: we did the that pilot that I was telling you about,
• 46:48
  Speaker 4: but the Russian trolls and you know, that had to
• 46:51
  Speaker 4: do with the Internet of things kind of. And then
• 46:54
  Speaker 4: we did another project that was also kind of like
• 46:59
  Speaker 4: a development project. And then he he had a meeting
• 47:06
  Speaker 4: with Live Nation and they said that they might have
• 47:09
  Speaker 4: this Lady Gaga documentary that there was potential for him
• 47:13
  Speaker 4: to direct it, and he got he got really exciting
• 47:16
  Speaker 4: because oh, there might yeah, this might happen. I was like, okay, well,
• 47:20
  Speaker 4: you know, He's like, I really want you to produce that.
• 47:22
  Speaker 4: I'm like, all right, great, well let me know if
• 47:23
  Speaker 4: it happens, because it just didn't seem it just seemed
• 47:25
  Speaker 4: like kind of a long shot, you know. And so
• 47:29
  Speaker 4: then I think it was almost like a month later.
• 47:31
  Speaker 4: A month went by and he went he met with
• 47:37
  Speaker 4: god was producer Bobby Campbell, and he and Bobby really
• 47:42
  Speaker 4: hit it off. And he called me and he's like,
• 47:46
  Speaker 4: I met with her manager. I really liked him. He's
• 47:48
  Speaker 4: super cool. I think it's really going to happen. And
• 47:51
  Speaker 4: I was like, okay, great, He's like I was okay, great, well,
• 47:54
  Speaker 4: you know, because you know, I mean, there's always something right, like,
• 47:58
  Speaker 4: there's always two or three or four projects that are
• 48:01
  Speaker 4: maybe going to happen or could happen, or you know,
• 48:05
  Speaker 4: and then they'll all go away and then something else
• 48:07
  Speaker 4: will come up. But you just never know. And I
• 48:09
  Speaker 4: was so I wasn't really super excited about it. I
• 48:13
  Speaker 4: just didn't I thought it kind of cool, and you know,
• 48:15
  Speaker 4: obviously I would would have been thrilled, but I just
• 48:18
  Speaker 4: didn't know. And then and then another few weeks ago
• 48:21
  Speaker 4: by I feel like, and he called me and he's like, okay,
• 48:24
  Speaker 4: I got a call to go and film her at
• 48:26
  Speaker 4: her house tomorrow. And I'm like, no way, and he's
• 48:30
  Speaker 4: like yeah, He's like it's happening. It's happening. And I
• 48:34
  Speaker 4: was like, okay, So we got him. He had a
• 48:37
  Speaker 4: camera and I think we just used a lens that
• 48:41
  Speaker 4: he already had because I don't think we even had
• 48:43
  Speaker 4: a plan in place yet. We ended up shooting on
• 48:46
  Speaker 4: can See three hundreds using as ice uh super speed
• 48:51
  Speaker 4: lenses fixed lenses, which was which is an immense challenge
• 48:57
  Speaker 4: and in some way stupid of us, but also brilliant
• 48:59
  Speaker 4: because it allowed us to you always had to be
• 49:02
  Speaker 4: close to her to film her, within like a few feet,
• 49:05
  Speaker 4: and I think you feel that in the film, which
• 49:07
  Speaker 4: is what we wanted. We really wanted it to feel
• 49:10
  Speaker 4: like a because so he goes and shoots this one
• 49:14
  Speaker 4: day and he comes back and we sit down and
• 49:16
  Speaker 4: watch all this footage, and we're going to cut together
• 49:18
  Speaker 4: this little kind of teaser to give to Live Nation,
• 49:22
  Speaker 4: and we're watching it and it's like he really got
• 49:25
  Speaker 4: a sense, and you really get a sent to the
• 49:26
  Speaker 4: footage she shot the first day, a lot of which
• 49:28
  Speaker 4: ended up in the film of what it was going
• 49:33
  Speaker 4: to be like filming her, that it was going to
• 49:35
  Speaker 4: be this really rare close up view of her, and
• 49:42
  Speaker 4: then it was going to be like this door would
• 49:43
  Speaker 4: open and we'd go in, or just he would go
• 49:47
  Speaker 4: in or whatever and then film and then the door shuts,
• 49:51
  Speaker 4: you know. And then so we knew that, and that
• 49:54
  Speaker 4: kind of contributed to the lenses and the camera that
• 49:57
  Speaker 4: we chose and the way we chose to film. We
• 50:00
  Speaker 4: couldn't have a big crew.
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: and now back to the show.
• 50:12
  Speaker 4: You know, you're not going to go into her house
• 50:14
  Speaker 4: or get on her plane or go into her studio
• 50:16
  Speaker 4: when she's recording with five people, She's never going to happen.
• 50:19
  Speaker 4: So we needed to do something that was compact, that
• 50:22
  Speaker 4: would allow for you know, just a DP, a very
• 50:26
  Speaker 4: discreet sound person who knew how to you know, who
• 50:28
  Speaker 4: could get out of the way and often not mike
• 50:32
  Speaker 4: her and and then a camera set up that you know,
• 50:37
  Speaker 4: Chris could use if he needed to. I shot for
• 50:41
  Speaker 4: a minute in one of the locations. I think I
• 50:44
  Speaker 4: shot the last step of the film where she's talking
• 50:46
  Speaker 4: about Shart, where she's his Shart in the credits. I
• 50:51
  Speaker 4: think I was shooting that in Nashville. But yeah, so
• 50:56
  Speaker 4: so he did that. We put together thing for Live
• 50:58
  Speaker 4: Nation and they were like, you know, and then the
• 51:01
  Speaker 4: next call I got was Chris on the phone with
• 51:04
  Speaker 4: one of the vps at Five Nations saying, Okay, we
• 51:08
  Speaker 4: need a budget and a schedule, and this is the budget.
• 51:10
  Speaker 4: It's just like, oh, okay, I guess this is happening.
• 51:13
  Speaker 4: I guess I guess we're making this movie. So literally,
• 51:17
  Speaker 4: we just immediately were in production like it just like
• 51:20
  Speaker 4: it was like it was happening right then, right it
• 51:24
  Speaker 4: was going and we knew we were going to get
• 51:26
  Speaker 4: a call soon to shoot again, and we sat down
• 51:29
  Speaker 4: with her manager. We sat down with Bobby and he
• 51:34
  Speaker 4: kind of gave me a rundown of all of the
• 51:37
  Speaker 4: things that she had coming up over the summer. This
• 51:39
  Speaker 4: is like in June of last year of twenty sixteen,
• 51:43
  Speaker 4: and he just kind of gave us, you know, this rundown, like,
• 51:45
  Speaker 4: these are all the things she has coming up. Let
• 51:47
  Speaker 4: us know which ones would be interesting for you guys
• 51:49
  Speaker 4: to film, you know, whatever you think, these are the
• 51:52
  Speaker 4: things that we think would be good. These are the
• 51:55
  Speaker 4: days she's filming in Malibu, These are the days she's
• 51:58
  Speaker 4: filming in New York or filming I'm sorry, she's making
• 52:01
  Speaker 4: the record. This is the da she's recording in New York.
• 52:03
  Speaker 4: These a day's recording in la And you know, if
• 52:06
  Speaker 4: you want to do those that, you know, let us
• 52:09
  Speaker 4: know that. You know what, you know who's coming in,
• 52:11
  Speaker 4: because Florence Welsh came in, and you know, there were
• 52:16
  Speaker 4: days that obviously Mark Ronson was going to be there
• 52:19
  Speaker 4: and Blood Pop and other people that she was collaborating
• 52:23
  Speaker 4: with that we wanted to make sure we got and
• 52:25
  Speaker 4: so yeah, we literally just it's like the door opened
• 52:30
  Speaker 4: and we were in and we were making the film
• 52:32
  Speaker 4: and we started we didn't know. We didn't know that
• 52:37
  Speaker 4: she was up for the super Bowl, Like, we didn't
• 52:39
  Speaker 4: even know that. And I think within two months we
• 52:45
  Speaker 4: knew that she was up for it. And there's scene
• 52:47
  Speaker 4: I think after she does the DNC performance, she's in
• 52:51
  Speaker 4: the car. I think this is still in the movie. No,
• 52:54
  Speaker 4: I can't remember right now, but but Bobby says to her,
• 53:01
  Speaker 4: you know, I think we got it, or you know,
• 53:03
  Speaker 4: or I think we're going to get or it looks
• 53:05
  Speaker 4: like we might get it. She's like, I think we're
• 53:07
  Speaker 4: going to get it. And it was kind of news
• 53:09
  Speaker 4: to us that she was even up for it. Once
• 53:13
  Speaker 4: we knew she was up for it, we were just like,
• 53:14
  Speaker 4: she's going to get it. Of course she's going to
• 53:16
  Speaker 4: get it, and we wanted her to get it because
• 53:19
  Speaker 4: we were like, this is the end of the movie.
• 53:21
  Speaker 4: You know we're watching because we just felt it immediately.
• 53:24
  Speaker 4: It was like this is the end of the movie.
• 53:25
  Speaker 4: Because she hadn't made an album three years, she was
• 53:29
  Speaker 4: making a new album. It was a huge departure from
• 53:32
  Speaker 4: a lot of her dance music that you know, she
• 53:34
  Speaker 4: had done fire and she was also you know, she
• 53:40
  Speaker 4: was doing this whole new look where she was wearing
• 53:41
  Speaker 4: jeans and t shirts and instead of these crazy costumes
• 53:46
  Speaker 4: and you know, these beautiful costumes i should say, in
• 53:50
  Speaker 4: masks and whatever else. It was very stripped down, and
• 53:52
  Speaker 4: it was it was completely new. So to see her
• 53:56
  Speaker 4: do that to the course of the film and then
• 54:00
  Speaker 4: to be able to you know, and also to kind
• 54:02
  Speaker 4: of see her in this really stripped down raw real
• 54:06
  Speaker 4: way that we were seeing her. And then to have
• 54:09
  Speaker 4: the end of the because and there were no you know,
• 54:11
  Speaker 4: she wasn't on tour. We filmed her a million times,
• 54:14
  Speaker 4: you know, doing shows or performances, but they were all
• 54:17
  Speaker 4: they were all pretty small. She did a dive bar tour,
• 54:19
  Speaker 4: she did the DNC, she did Tony Bennett study a birthday,
• 54:24
  Speaker 4: she did pr stuff, She performed in Tokyo, but nothing
• 54:28
  Speaker 4: like you know, one of her concerts or you know,
• 54:31
  Speaker 4: or in a stadium or like the super Bowl. So
• 54:34
  Speaker 4: you know, it was just such a it was just
• 54:37
  Speaker 4: such a no brainer. And we knew she was at four,
• 54:39
  Speaker 4: so oh, this is the end and we can see
• 54:41
  Speaker 4: so that we see this person, you know, and I'm
• 54:44
  Speaker 4: five nine, so to me it is like so small.
• 54:47
  Speaker 4: We were in the edit, I was like explaining to
• 54:49
  Speaker 4: the editor, who hadn't met her yet, but of course
• 54:52
  Speaker 4: had spent thousands of hours with her, you know in
• 54:54
  Speaker 4: his mind, you know, in reality, you know, watching her
• 54:58
  Speaker 4: on screen, and I was like, it's so amazing because
• 55:02
  Speaker 4: she's like this little person. I mean again to me,
• 55:05
  Speaker 4: because I've always felt as a woman, I've always felt
• 55:08
  Speaker 4: big because I'm I'm almost five to nine. And and
• 55:12
  Speaker 4: then I just I kind of started seeing he pops,
• 55:14
  Speaker 4: you know on fat foot, what is on fat foot?
• 55:16
  Speaker 4: Wand and and that ends up being a possible title.
• 55:21
  Speaker 4: Chris was like, oh, maybe that's the title we had.
• 55:23
  Speaker 4: We had a million titles and we could not naming
• 55:27
  Speaker 4: anything is the worst, so that ends up going on
• 55:31
  Speaker 4: the on the title list. And but yeah, so it
• 55:35
  Speaker 4: was it was a real windfall for her to do
• 55:37
  Speaker 4: the super Bowl because then we could see this stripped down,
• 55:40
  Speaker 4: small person do this thing that was larger than life,
• 55:42
  Speaker 4: and see how she did it. You know, for us,
• 55:45
  Speaker 4: anybody can go on YouTube and watch her super Bowl
• 55:47
  Speaker 4: performance from beginning to end. What we wanted to see
• 55:52
  Speaker 4: was the viewpoint of what it's like backstage, what it's
• 55:54
  Speaker 4: like when she's you know, rehearsing in her sweatpants, you know,
• 55:59
  Speaker 4: when her hit her it's in the in that back room.
• 56:01
  Speaker 4: And that back room really was where everybody hung out
• 56:04
  Speaker 4: and stayed. It's not a beautiful place, you know, it's like,
• 56:07
  Speaker 4: but that's the reality of of of what what it's
• 56:10
  Speaker 4: like behind the scenes. And for us, it was you know,
• 56:13
  Speaker 4: all of it was kind of fascinating and it was
• 56:15
  Speaker 4: really it was really fascinating to be to be in
• 56:21
  Speaker 4: that world for the time that we were in it.
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: So what was your most memorable experience you know, making
• 56:27
  Speaker 3: the uh, making this documentary.
• 56:34
  Speaker 4: God, there were so many, I mean the most the
• 56:37
  Speaker 4: thing that one of the things that really stuck with
• 56:39
  Speaker 4: me was everywhere we went with her. You know, you'd
• 56:46
  Speaker 4: go in an suv, you know, there'd be like several
• 56:49
  Speaker 4: black SUVs or vehicles, and you'd enter through the security
• 56:55
  Speaker 4: entrance and go up a back elevator. You enter, you
• 57:00
  Speaker 4: enter space is the most ugly way, you know what
• 57:03
  Speaker 4: I mean, Like you kind of enter every space. You're
• 57:06
  Speaker 4: like the same way a messenger might enter that space,
• 57:08
  Speaker 4: you know, or something like that. Just the most you know,
• 57:11
  Speaker 4: you're not going typically through the palatial you know, front
• 57:16
  Speaker 4: entrances of any of anywhere. You're always just going through
• 57:19
  Speaker 4: the bottom to get her up to a back room.
• 57:22
  Speaker 4: It's like a green room, fitting room, and and she's
• 57:25
  Speaker 4: in you know, a makeup hair room with all of
• 57:29
  Speaker 4: her you know, closest people who are helping. And then
• 57:32
  Speaker 4: there's you know another room that's all the production people
• 57:35
  Speaker 4: and the musician related people, and you know, I mean
• 57:38
  Speaker 4: there's there's several rooms of people wherever she goes whenever
• 57:41
  Speaker 4: she performs it for anything or does an appearance. And
• 57:47
  Speaker 4: the interesting thing was so that was interesting, and then
• 57:49
  Speaker 4: we would go we would go in you know that way,
• 57:51
  Speaker 4: and then we'd go and set up our cameras you know,
• 57:54
  Speaker 4: and sound or whatever, and then go back down to
• 57:56
  Speaker 4: the street to film. Often and the barricade would be
• 58:00
  Speaker 4: up and all these people would be out there like
• 58:01
  Speaker 4: waiting for her, and we'd be filming from behind the barricades.
• 58:05
  Speaker 4: And it was a really surreal experience because you just
• 58:09
  Speaker 4: see how much these people revere her. And you know,
• 58:14
  Speaker 4: at one point, she did a show in la and
• 58:17
  Speaker 4: I was interviewing people because that one might be interesting
• 58:20
  Speaker 4: for the film because your album had just come out.
• 58:22
  Speaker 4: To talk to people about her and her music and what,
• 58:26
  Speaker 4: you know, why they were such fans. And afterwards I
• 58:30
  Speaker 4: walked into the venue and just like start crying because
• 58:33
  Speaker 4: I was like, oh my god, you know, like people
• 58:36
  Speaker 4: it's not just you know, hero worship or whatever. It's
• 58:38
  Speaker 4: like people identify with her because of her message of
• 58:42
  Speaker 4: if you don't fit in, if you're an outsider, that's cool.
• 58:47
  Speaker 4: You know, that's a great thing to be, you know,
• 58:50
  Speaker 4: especially from born this way and all that. So that
• 58:53
  Speaker 4: was that was a huge That was kind of that
• 58:55
  Speaker 4: was super memorable. It was also memorable when she we
• 58:59
  Speaker 4: were Okyo and we were she was getting she was
• 59:04
  Speaker 4: practicing for this performance on this show, and I was filming.
• 59:09
  Speaker 4: I think I was filming Chris filming her, so I
• 59:12
  Speaker 4: think I was just filming with an iPhone. So I
• 59:13
  Speaker 4: was filming him filming her, and she walked over to me.
• 59:17
  Speaker 4: She's like, I'm really sorry, but this is a close set.
• 59:21
  Speaker 4: We just really need to focus on this show. And
• 59:25
  Speaker 4: it's like she was kicking me out. I was like,
• 59:29
  Speaker 4: I looked at it, I.
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: Go, it's me.
• 59:30
  Speaker 4: It's Kim the for the doc. And she's like, oh
• 59:35
  Speaker 4: my god, I'm so fine. She's like you're like me,
• 59:38
  Speaker 4: You're like a chameleon. Like never She's like, you always
• 59:41
  Speaker 4: give your hair drift. I never know. She's like, it
• 59:43
  Speaker 4: always takes me a minute to know it's you. And
• 59:44
  Speaker 4: she was like so fleeing, like hugged me and was
• 59:47
  Speaker 4: like I'm really sorry. But it was like, cause we've
• 59:50
  Speaker 4: been filming her for like two months at that point,
• 59:52
  Speaker 4: I was like, really, you're kicking me out, like obviously
• 59:56
  Speaker 4: I got to stay. But yeah, so that was funny.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: and now back to the show.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 4: So we really I mean that just also just goes
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 4: to speak to we really tried to be slies on
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 4: the wall like we were. It's one hundred percent difference
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 4: of making reality T. When you're making reality TV, it's like, Okay, Kendre,
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 4: this is a scene. So you're going to come in
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 4: and you're going to be mad at this person for
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 4: what they said or what you thought they said, and
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 4: you guys are going to have an argument. Okay, everybody ready, Okay,
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 4: action you know, you know what I mean. And then
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 4: they improvised it out however they're going to do. And
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 4: but making a doc, especially about Lady Gaga, who is
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 4: actually doing things in the moment, and you know, whether
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 4: she's rehearsing for the Super Bowl or for a program
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 4: she's about to be on in Tokyo or making a record,
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 4: she is busy, and so you're not. The last thing
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 4: you're trying to do is to get in her way,
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 4: you know.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, I mean, because I imagine, you know,
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 3: she the why you're where you're describing a kimp. She
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 3: had a small army and then to make a film
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 3: as a small army. So it's so, now make up
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: a giant yeah.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 4: So yeah, And the army was often just Chris and I.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 4: Our army was typically Chris and myself and a sound
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 4: person and a DP that was typically we didn't even
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 4: have We often didn't even have a PA. In fact,
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 4: we didn't even have a data transfer a person. I would,
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 4: at the end of the shoot day do all the
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 4: data transfer from the cards to drives in my hotel room.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 4: I did. I did all that because A I didn't
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 4: trust anybody with the footage and be there was just
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 4: was no there was just no point and you know,
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 4: and bring we couldn't really bring anybody else on. At
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 4: one point in New York. We had a PA for
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 4: a little while to drive us a place and sort
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 4: of go grab stuff if we needed it, but we
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 4: didn't really you know, or we've had we had a
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 4: production and coordinator in LA that we'd have the in
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 4: our office. We had two production coordinators here in LA
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 4: that we would have go do stuff or whatever. But
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 4: typically when we were filming, it was it was super minimal.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I was going to say, I imagine it was
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 3: probably like see it's grulla filmmaking. You know, you're getting
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 3: your hands dirty. You know, you're you're one minute your producer,
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 3: next minute, you know you're transferring footage. It's all for
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 3: the love of the game, right Kim, Yes, exactly it is.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 4: And you know if you love it, if that's you love,
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 4: then you don't care because you love it, you know,
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 4: And I really love filmmaking and I love storytelling, and
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 4: you know what's not to love about, you know, running
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 4: around with a camera after Lady Gaga. I mean, you
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 4: know there's no you're not going to complain about that.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 4: So yeah, it was. It was great. It was fun.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 3: And were you surprised when Netflix picked us up?
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 4: No? Not really, because the film was financed by Live Nation,
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 4: and there were multiple people who were interested and so
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 4: I mean I even have friends who buy films for
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 4: studios and they were interested. So we kind of we
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 4: just didn't know who the buyer was going to be.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 4: That was up and that was that was up to
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 4: Live Nations, so they controlled the movie.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 3: And the film is on Netflix right now. Correct, Yes
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 3: it is.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 4: You can stream it from the comfort of your own home.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 4: You don't have to leave the house, you can go. Yeah,
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 4: you can watch it any time anywhere.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 3: And I will also link to that in the show notes,
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 3: along with a trailer and all the other good stuff
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 3: that you know, Kim and I have discussed in this
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 3: in this whole conversation. Kim, I just have one more
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 3: question before we close out. You know, what are you
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 3: working on next?
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 4: So right now as we speak, I'm waiting to hear
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 4: from an editor whose name is Darren Vary. Is a
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 4: great editor who's done I love Dick and Ballers and
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 4: to those two shows together are not right. And also
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 4: he edited he edited Yeah, I'm sorry, I turned my
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 4: front no, but he entered this. He edited the film.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 4: The end of the tour with Jesse Eisenberg as well,
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 4: and he's just a great editor. So he's overseeing the
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 4: edit on a short film I just shot called I directed,
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 4: I wrote and directed called Violet's New Life. And it's
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 4: a short, but it's also a kind of a it's
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 4: a it's a pilot presentation, it's a show presentation. It's
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 4: about The short is about Violet, who takes place maybe
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 4: five or ten years in the future, who just had
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 4: her mind downloaded into a thirty five year old synthetic
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 4: version of herself. She had a terminal illness at seventy
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 4: two and decided to go ahead and have her mind
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 4: downloaded into a synthetic body. And so she is picked
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 4: up by her adopted daughter Joyce and they go to
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 4: her funeral and that's the short film. So the show
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 4: is basically the show is called Violets New Life, and
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 4: it's about Violet acclimating to life as a thirty five
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 4: year old and you know, I mean to be seventy
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 4: two and a thirty five year old bodies it's pretty crazy.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 4: So it's you know, again, I'm super interested in technology
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 4: and I don't want to die. I don't want to
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 4: die and I don't really even if there is an afterlife,
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 4: which will hope. You know, let's if there's something else,
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 4: I'm not conscious of it now. I don't know what
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 4: that is, and that kind of pisses me off, and
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 4: it piss me off that my life is so short.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 4: So but then you know, when you think, okay, so great,
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 4: what if you know, you take all of your life's experiences,
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 4: you live to you're seventy two and you get to
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 4: be thirty five again, looks that like, you know, what,
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 4: how do you acclimate to life? You know, knowing everything
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 4: you know and being able to do that? So yeah,
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 4: so that's the show is like a it's like a
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 4: thirty minute drama y along the lines of Transparent or
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 4: Insecure or I Loved Dick or Glow. So so yeah,
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 4: So I'm I've written the first two episodes and kind
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 4: of outline the first few seasons and we'll be taking
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 4: that out in the next prime month or two and
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 4: submitting it to Festival, the short the short film to Festival.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 4: And that's why I'm organic.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 3: Well, I was gonna say I because I know, again,
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 3: as we're talking about TV, that's where it's at right now.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 3: And uh, you know, I even when I discuss things uh,
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 3: you know, I don't have an agent manager. But as
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 3: soon as I just sort discussing things with a myriad
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 3: of people, they always say, well, do you have like
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 3: a TV pilot or something or anything TV episodic related.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 3: And I'm always like, well, I I you know, I'm
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 3: kind of slow, Kim, but I started to notice a
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 3: pattern and I'm like, okay, I see it. So uh,
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 3: by the I mean, And I even shot at TV
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 3: pilot myself a couple of years ago, and I actually
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 3: put it up on YouTube right now, so it's yeah,
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 3: it was actually pretty cool because where I shot. Right
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 3: after me, we shot at a studio right down the
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 3: street from my house and here in Philadelphia, and right
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 3: after us, m Night Shamlan came in to shoot After
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 3: Earth with Will Smith. So yeah, they were like, guys,
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 3: you have to leave soon because well m Night Shamlan
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 3: and Will Smith are coming in the day after you
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 3: guys break And I'm like, all right, we'll have everything
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 3: cleaned up. So but yeah, I have it up on
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 3: YouTube right now. It's all free. It's pretty cool. But
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 3: but yeah, I mean see so that That's one of
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 3: the things I hope people take away is, uh, you know,
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 3: you don't want to be in a room and they
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 3: and somebody ask what else you got, and you're like, well,
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 3: I don't have any episodic stuff, because I now realize
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 3: that's the way in uh right now, is to make
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 3: sure you have episodic things. But so, Kim, I want
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 3: to say, it's been a blast talking to you. Where
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 3: can people find you out online?
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 4: You know, on Twitter? I'm on Instagram. I am Kim
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 4: Ray on Instagram, Kim Ray on Twitter. Pretty much. I
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 4: don't have a website. I've been toying with the idea
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 4: of a website, but I'm kind of like, you know,
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 4: what am I going to do put? I don't put
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 4: clips from my movies or pages from my scripts on
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 4: a webs I don't know. I'm not sold on having
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 4: a website right now. But what do you think?
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 3: Well, I think really depends upon what your strategy is,
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 3: because I think if you're gonna if you're gonna mainly
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 3: be you know, talking to other people and and sharing
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 3: like trailers and stuff like that.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 3: You know, I again, I'm big on Twitter, and I
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 3: think it's where you feel the most comfortable. That that's
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 3: usually my my advice because you know, any any tool
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 3: is only as good as the person that wields it.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 3: So yeah, that's my sage advice. Kim. I I sound
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 3: very said, but well, thank you, thank you very much everybody.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 3: I will link to everything Kim and I talked about
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 3: in the show, in the show notes and everyone. I
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 3: want to say thank you so much for listening. Kim.
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 3: I want to say thank you so much for coming on.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 3: This has been an absolute blast, and I hope everyone
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 3: checks out Gaga five foot two. By the way, Kim,
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 3: do you know Gaga follows me on Twitter? No way,
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 3: I'm dead serious. I swear she follows me on Twitter?
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 4: Oh my god, should have follow me on Twitter? Because
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 4: I never asked. I should ask her social media person.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 4: Can she please follow me? I don't think she follows
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 4: even her manager Bobby and I follow each other on Instagram.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 4: But yeah, wow, you're you're That's that's pretty impressive.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 3: I don't even remember. Can you believe this, Kim? I
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 3: don't even remember how it happened. I just remember one
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 3: day I was like, what, this can't be the real
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 3: and it's the real Lady Gaga verified and everything, and
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 3: she follows my personal Wow. Yeah, seriously, you should you
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 3: should DM it?
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 4: You should DM her.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 3: I should. I should be like, hey, I had your
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 3: producer on on the podcast, come on.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 4: Tell he should tell her that's awesome.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 3: Really, she'd be like, I said that person I kicked
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 3: out off the set that one day, and like it's
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 3: the same one. Gotta funny. So, Kim, I want to
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 3: say again, thank you so much for coming on. And
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 3: uh I wish you the best.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 4: All right, thanks so much, you.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 3: Take care, Kim.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: a great job on this episode. If you want to
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: head over to the show notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: Forward slash for thank you so much for listening. Guys,
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: As always, keep on writing no matter what.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 3: I'll talk to you soon.
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproof
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: Screenwriting dot tv.