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Intentionally Create Basketball Culture · A Quick Timeout

0:05
Coach Matt Wise is entering his first year as the head coach
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for the women's
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SPEAKER_02: basketball team at Samford University.
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SPEAKER_02: Prior to that,
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SPEAKER_02: Coach had been at schools like Alabama,
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SPEAKER_02: ETSU,
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SPEAKER_02: Wyoming,
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SPEAKER_02: and Florida on both the men's and women's side.
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SPEAKER_02: I'm excited to have him joining us today.
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SPEAKER_02: Coach, welcome to the show.
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SPEAKER_02: I appreciate you having me.
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SPEAKER_02: Excited to do it.
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SPEAKER_02: You were also the associate head coach there last year at Samford,
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SPEAKER_02: and you slide over now one chair,
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SPEAKER_02: and the adjustment so far has been what?
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SPEAKER_00: The adjustment so far for me has been fun.
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SPEAKER_00: The adjustment for my wife has been awful.
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SPEAKER_00: I thought I was busy and I put in a lot of work beforehand.
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SPEAKER_00: It's a little bit different with the hours now.
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SPEAKER_00: So I think the adjustment's been harder on her than it has been on me.
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SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_02: And taking over at a unique time in college sports,
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anything either catch you off guard or just surprise you or
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maybe it's all just
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been reality and you're just now experiencing everything that
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you thought it was
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SPEAKER_02: going to be.
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SPEAKER_00: Well, so the transition happens.
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Our head coach announces to the team that she's leaving for an
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unbelievable
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SPEAKER_00: opportunity up at Maryland.
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SPEAKER_00: I'm going to be more happy for her.
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SPEAKER_00: That happened at 9 a.m.
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At 11,
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our SWA calls me up to her office and says,
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get yourself together at noon.
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SPEAKER_00: You're interviewing with me in the AD.
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SPEAKER_00: Now,
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SPEAKER_00: the irony was that about 10 days earlier,
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I had had an interview with a different school for a different
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job with their 80.
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SPEAKER_00: So I actually had all my material ready,
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which was a unbelievable blessing because otherwise that would
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have been the worst
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SPEAKER_00: hour imaginable.
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SPEAKER_00: So was ready.
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And I'm getting to the point of your question of the reality of
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the landscape that we're in.
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SPEAKER_00: So I go through the interview goes great.
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SPEAKER_00: Everything,
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SPEAKER_00: the energy,
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SPEAKER_00: the enthusiasm from the administration,
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SPEAKER_00: from me,
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SPEAKER_00: we were just on the same page of where we want to go with this program,
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SPEAKER_00: what we want to do with it.
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Then the players found out that I had been interviewed and they
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wanted me to get the job.
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SPEAKER_00: So they go to the administration trying to support me, what have you.
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SPEAKER_00: The next day,
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SPEAKER_00: after talking to the president,
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SPEAKER_00: talking to the AD,
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SPEAKER_00: I end up getting offered the job.
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SPEAKER_00: That afternoon, the entire team is wanting to go into the portal.
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so this reality of this chaos right and part of it is once the
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word got out that
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carly was leaving so many schools started hitting our players
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trying to recruit
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them right that's new that's different um i end up on a
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facetime call with one of
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our players um one of our really talented players and her
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family we hash it out for
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SPEAKER_00: about two hours
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SPEAKER_00: This is where it's going.
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SPEAKER_00: This is how I see her being used.
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SPEAKER_00: This is what I want to do.
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SPEAKER_00: This is the values.
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SPEAKER_00: This is the culture.
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SPEAKER_00: This is the defense.
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SPEAKER_00: This is the offense.
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SPEAKER_00: This is every single element.
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SPEAKER_00: And by the end of it, the family is completely bought in.
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SPEAKER_00: Kids bought in, parents bought in.
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And the dad said,
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Matt,
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I got to tell you,
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you need to tell this to everybody.
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SPEAKER_00: While I'm FaceTiming them,
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SPEAKER_00: I text the staff and I said,
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SPEAKER_00: line up Zooms every hour on the hour tomorrow.
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so for 13 straight hours we did zooms every hour on the hour
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with like five minute
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breaks in between with every family pitching them re-recruiting
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selling them the
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whole nine yards this is what it was like we had never talked
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before even though we
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had a tight relationship this is where we're going this is the
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vision this is how i
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see you being on board for it by the end of it we had 11 of 13
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back on board uh the
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two that didn't one ended up in the big east the other ended up
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in the big 10 so
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SPEAKER_00: Hard to argue with, you know, the financial opportunities that they had.
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SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
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I've been doing this for several years and to hear the same
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kind of conversations
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SPEAKER_02: with coaches are having to have with their own players.
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SPEAKER_02: You're spending as much.
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SPEAKER_02: We joked about recruiting before we got on here.
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You're spending almost as much time or maybe more time
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recruiting your own players at the end.
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SPEAKER_02: as you are recruiting the new players coming in.
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SPEAKER_02: Maybe you have a different opinion about this.
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SPEAKER_02: I don't necessarily feel like it's,
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SPEAKER_02: I know you could say lack of loyalty or whatever too,
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SPEAKER_02: but it's just,
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SPEAKER_02: there's more fluidity and people are,
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it's a necessity now that I think that it doesn't necessarily
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reflect poorly on the
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SPEAKER_02: kids all the time.
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SPEAKER_02: It's just the world that we're living in now.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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I don't think you can point to one thing is social media and
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influence on it.
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SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
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SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
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But so is the fact that you can switch any high school or AAU
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team you want to
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SPEAKER_00: right now,
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SPEAKER_00: right?
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SPEAKER_00: So they come up in it.
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SPEAKER_00: So is the fact that coming out of the heels of COVID,
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SPEAKER_00: we all became the generation of,
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SPEAKER_00: is this really what I want to do?
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SPEAKER_00: And, you know, what's right for me?
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SPEAKER_00: And we're trying to hop around and find our right path.
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SPEAKER_00: So it's so prevalent.
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SPEAKER_00: And I mean, you know, if you look at,
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SPEAKER_00: Like scarcity brain by Michael Easter or the anxious generation.
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SPEAKER_00: Right.
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SPEAKER_00: With Jonathan Haidt, like these things, like it is so multidimensional.
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SPEAKER_00: It's moving so fast for this group.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it is the reality of where we are.
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SPEAKER_00: I think there will be changes that end up coming legislatively.
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that I think will kind of give us a little more stability in
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college athletics.
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SPEAKER_00: But, you know, we're not there yet.
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SPEAKER_02: Okay,
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so it's a little bit different than just being the new guy that
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comes completely
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SPEAKER_02: in,
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SPEAKER_02: no association,
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SPEAKER_02: new way of doing things totally.
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So you're obviously a part of things last year and had input on
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what's happening in the program.
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How are you keeping some continuity while also bringing in your
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unique ideas?
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The way I've tried to present it to the staff and the players
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is we are going to
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SPEAKER_00: try to look at this from a lens of this is not a continuation,
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SPEAKER_00: nor is this a complete overhaul.
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SPEAKER_00: I've been dreaming about running a program since I was three.
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Like I've been dreaming about putting together a staff and
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putting together a
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SPEAKER_00: roster and putting together a culture and putting together an offense,
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SPEAKER_00: a defense,
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SPEAKER_00: everything.
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SPEAKER_00: I was raised on this thing.
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So what this is becoming has a lot to do with Carly Coons and
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her influence and the
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her winning three championships in the last six years and the
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things that she
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SPEAKER_00: established and the way that we did things.
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SPEAKER_00: But it equally has a major influence by Billy Donovan,
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Larry Schein and Alan Edwards and all these other people that
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Christy Curry,
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SPEAKER_00: all these other people that I worked for because that's going to be me.
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SPEAKER_00: And if I'm trying to be somebody else, it's not going to work.
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So I'm just trying to do it the best that I can and the best
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that we can as a staff.
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SPEAKER_02: So how have you gone about establishing that foundation early on here?
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A lot of it has to do with this idea of it's a Doc Rivers ism
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of clarity precedes
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SPEAKER_00: accountability.
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SPEAKER_00: So we put in a lot of time of teaching.
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SPEAKER_00: So we teach culture.
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SPEAKER_00: We have culture classes.
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We teach definitions within our culture and what the
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expectations behind those
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SPEAKER_00: definitions are defensively,
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SPEAKER_00: offensively.
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SPEAKER_00: Where is our positioning?
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SPEAKER_00: What is our screening technique?
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SPEAKER_00: What is our communication like in our screening from the ground up?
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SPEAKER_00: And so a lot of it has to do with laying clear,
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SPEAKER_00: clear guidelines that we can then hold accountable,
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SPEAKER_00: discipline,
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SPEAKER_00: hold to the standard.
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SPEAKER_00: So that's a lot of it.
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SPEAKER_00: So in terms of making the switch from one to the other,
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it's more about clearly defining exactly what we're going to do
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in this program.
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And then that kind of makes it a lot easier for them to grasp,
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understand,
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buy into.
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SPEAKER_02: You mentioned the classes.
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SPEAKER_02: What is that?
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I was going to ask you about kind of non-basketball off the
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court type of stuff,
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SPEAKER_02: team activities.
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I think sometimes I think of like,
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oh,
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we're going to go play paintball or whatever.
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SPEAKER_02: Like, OK, that's that's cool.
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SPEAKER_02: But what are the classes?
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SPEAKER_02: And then maybe what are some of the other activities?
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SPEAKER_00: I don't know how good of a coach I am.
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SPEAKER_00: I know how good of a thief I am.
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So Shaka Smart has a culture document that I'm sure you've
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probably seen or heard about before.
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I've had the privilege of seeing it,
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reviewing it,
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talking to people who have worked for him.
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SPEAKER_00: And so we kind of stole his idea of the culture document,
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SPEAKER_00: again,
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SPEAKER_00: with the idea of similar to like a Brene Brown,
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SPEAKER_00: Atlas of the Heart kind of approach of like,
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SPEAKER_00: let's clearly define the terminology so that you know what it is.
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SPEAKER_00: We have in our culture,
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SPEAKER_00: Doc,
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SPEAKER_00: these strict principles that we go by in terms of we are about loving,
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SPEAKER_00: growing and competing.
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SPEAKER_00: And then within each one of those principles,
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SPEAKER_00: there are four different definitions that fall under each category.
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And so what we're doing in our culture class is once a week,
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we meet and we deep dive a subject.
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SPEAKER_00: Sally Higgins,
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SPEAKER_00: one of our assistants,
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SPEAKER_00: myself,
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SPEAKER_00: sometimes outside voices,
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SPEAKER_00: sometimes outside videos,
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SPEAKER_00: sometimes activities.
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SPEAKER_00: We try to teach a principle.
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so one of them i'll get like i'll give you an example one is
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under the headline of
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loving is truth and the idea that the people that love you the
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most tell you the
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truth no matter how it makes you feel and that most people
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start with how is this
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going to make the other person feel and then they decide what
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they're going to say
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SPEAKER_00: from there
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SPEAKER_00: And the people who love you the most will tell you the truth, right?
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And so this idea of avoiding hard subjects or not calling out
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the actual elephant in the room.
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SPEAKER_00: So to illustrate this to them,
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SPEAKER_00: And it's cheesy.
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SPEAKER_00: I am cheesy now.
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SPEAKER_00: But we we had them pair up, come up to the front of the room.
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SPEAKER_00: We laid out peanut butter, bread, jelly and a knife.
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And one of them was blindfolded and the other one had to give
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them instructions.
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SPEAKER_00: But here are the rules of the game.
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SPEAKER_00: You're not allowed to say peanut butter, jelly, bread or a knife.
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SPEAKER_00: You're also not allowed to say anything to the negative.
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SPEAKER_00: So you can't say no.
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SPEAKER_00: You can't say stop.
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SPEAKER_00: You can't even go at.
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SPEAKER_00: So they'd be given instructions.
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SPEAKER_00: OK, reach your hand out a little bit to the right.
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SPEAKER_00: No.
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SPEAKER_00: Next group.
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SPEAKER_00: Have the next group come up, put the blindfold on.
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SPEAKER_00: Okay.
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SPEAKER_00: Reach out your hand to the right.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00: That's the jelly.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00: Grab that.
10:11
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
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SPEAKER_00: Start squeezing.
10:12
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
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SPEAKER_00: Squeeze a little bit more, a little bit more.
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SPEAKER_00: Okay.
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SPEAKER_00: Stop at next group.
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SPEAKER_00: And then the next,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
10:16
SPEAKER_00: okay,
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there's this thing that's over there and you're trying to grab
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this thing and you,
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SPEAKER_00: okay,
10:20
SPEAKER_00: no over there to try to give them the illustration that look,
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if you would have just said exactly what it was and you weren't
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scared to say no or
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SPEAKER_00: stop or anything negative,
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SPEAKER_00: we could have so much quicker and more easily accomplished the task.
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SPEAKER_00: So it's not out of a place of criticism.
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SPEAKER_00: It's not out of a place of demeaning or trying to hurt the person.
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SPEAKER_00: You want what's best for them.
10:45
SPEAKER_00: You want them to achieve the goal.
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If the goal is to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich,
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you want them to achieve the goal.
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SPEAKER_00: If the goal is to win a championship, you want them to achieve the goal.
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SPEAKER_00: So there has to be critiques along the way to get you there.
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SPEAKER_00: That was kind of one of the exercises to get them to understand.
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11:50
I wanted to ask you about your mom,
11:52
Mary Wise,
11:52
legendary Florida volleyball coach.
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SPEAKER_02: Building a culture is easier said than done.
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SPEAKER_02: It does help when you have role models,
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and it especially has some benefits to have people who are in
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your life or close to
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SPEAKER_02: you where you can ask those things.
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SPEAKER_02: And I think it's beneficial to have as a man a woman.
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SPEAKER_02: Who can help you with those things, especially probably for you?
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I haven't coached women yet for working with women and helping
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build that culture there.
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Anything that she's helped you with or got from her directly or
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indirectly that you
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SPEAKER_02: think would be good sharing?
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SPEAKER_00: So we've been having these discussions for 30 something years.
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I mean,
12:34
like our family discussion at the dinner table was not like how
12:39
was class today?
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SPEAKER_00: It was such and such violated team rules.
12:43
SPEAKER_00: Here's how we handled the punishment.
12:46
Like,
12:47
you know,
12:48
here's who played well at practice today and why and whatever
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like that.
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SPEAKER_00: Those were our discussions.
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SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, I mean, she's huge.
12:57
SPEAKER_00: She's terrific.
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SPEAKER_00: I bounce so many things off her.
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SPEAKER_00: It's kind of this weird thing where because I'm an idea person,
13:03
I'm constantly reading and listening to podcasts and I'm always
13:06
throwing stuff at
13:07
SPEAKER_00: her.
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And it's so fascinating when she takes a nugget I gave her and
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throws it back at me
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SPEAKER_00: as a lesson for me.
13:14
So like one of them,
13:15
you brought up re-recruiting your own players,
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right?
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SPEAKER_00: So one of my mentors, Alan Edwards, was way ahead of the game on this.
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SPEAKER_00: This was like,
13:22
SPEAKER_00: I don't even know if the portal was a thing,
13:24
SPEAKER_00: like full-blown what it is today when I was with him.
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SPEAKER_00: But he saw it coming.
13:29
SPEAKER_00: He saw what was coming.
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SPEAKER_00: And so he had us as assistants.
13:36
have a list of players where every week we had to call their
13:40
parents for a weekly
13:42
SPEAKER_00: check-in of re-recruiting.
13:43
SPEAKER_00: This is how it went for your son.
13:45
SPEAKER_00: This is how it went this week, yada, yada, yada.
13:47
SPEAKER_00: I got to tell you,
13:48
SPEAKER_00: when you're doing that during the season for a kid who's not playing,
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SPEAKER_00: that's not a fun call as an assistant.
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SPEAKER_00: But I had told my mom about these ideas.
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SPEAKER_00: She just the other day we were talking and she said,
14:00
SPEAKER_00: you know,
14:01
SPEAKER_00: you taught me re-recruit your players at all times.
14:04
SPEAKER_00: So she said,
14:04
SPEAKER_00: make sure that when one of your players has a good practice,
14:08
SPEAKER_00: you shoot their parents a text.
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SPEAKER_00: Hey, such and such had a really good day today.
14:12
SPEAKER_00: They did this.
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SPEAKER_00: When they get an A on a big test or a project or an exam,
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SPEAKER_00: whatever it is,
14:18
SPEAKER_00: shoot the parents a text.
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SPEAKER_00: Hey, huge news that I had an A on this test.
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SPEAKER_00: It was awesome.
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SPEAKER_00: So she's constantly throwing ideas like that.
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SPEAKER_00: And as far as especially the gender gap, one of the cool things.
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SPEAKER_00: is her mentor,
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SPEAKER_00: her first or her head coach at Kentucky,
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SPEAKER_00: who went on to be the head of the ABCA for a long,
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SPEAKER_00: long time.
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SPEAKER_00: Kathy DeBoer wrote a book on gender differences in sport.
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SPEAKER_00: And so one of the things when I made the switch, she bought me a copy.
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There's actually a chapter in there that I think is called like
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life with Matthew
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SPEAKER_00: or something like that.
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SPEAKER_00: And it was like mom's handling of me being, you know, one years old.
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but you know we kind of talk about those differences those
15:00
nuances especially i
15:01
think one of the big ones is handling the group dynamic on the
15:08
team uh one of the
15:09
the lessons from the book and i apologize i'm kind of going
15:12
long-winded here but
15:13
one of the lessons from the book was that men typically operate
15:18
on a pyramid of
15:20
who's on top right even from a young age my dad could beat up
15:22
your dad right
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SPEAKER_00: everything is
15:25
SPEAKER_00: I'm bigger, I'm stronger, whatever.
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SPEAKER_00: I'm on top.
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SPEAKER_00: And women operate on a web.
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The idea being the worst thing for a guy is being at the bottom
15:35
of the pyramid.
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SPEAKER_00: The worst thing for a female is being cast to the outside of the web.
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SPEAKER_00: Now that doesn't make one or the other more competitive, right?
15:44
For a female,
15:45
it might be,
15:45
I want to be so competitive so that I'm in the web.
15:49
SPEAKER_00: The worst thing you can do is be not good enough and you get outcasted.
15:53
SPEAKER_00: Right.
15:53
Like that you will find a way to be competitive if it keeps you
15:57
in the Web.
15:58
SPEAKER_00: And so when you're talking about,
16:00
SPEAKER_00: you know,
16:01
SPEAKER_00: discipline of your players,
16:02
SPEAKER_00: when you're talking about praise of your players,
16:04
SPEAKER_00: when you're talking about playing time,
16:05
SPEAKER_00: when you're talking about meetings with coaches and extra workouts,
16:11
SPEAKER_00: all that stuff.
16:12
SPEAKER_00: It's not necessarily about jealousy and envy, anything like that.
16:16
SPEAKER_00: It's more of am I in the Web?
16:18
SPEAKER_00: Am I in the web or am I outside the web?
16:20
SPEAKER_00: Whereas for a guy, am I going up the pyramid or down the pyramid?
16:23
SPEAKER_00: So those kind of discussions have been, you know, really, really helpful.
16:27
I mentioned at the beginning,
16:29
you spent time on both men's and women's side.
16:32
Do you feel like that's given you any advantage in regards to
16:36
maybe some of the
16:37
SPEAKER_02: stuff that we just talked about,
16:38
understanding those things or even in the ability to
16:42
communicate and coach on the
16:44
SPEAKER_02: court?
16:45
SPEAKER_00: That's a good question.
16:46
SPEAKER_00: I think...
16:48
The benefit has less to do with having worked with both genders
16:54
as much as I've
16:54
SPEAKER_00: worked for really good coaches on both sides.
16:58
SPEAKER_00: I've just had the benefit of learning some really good ideas,
17:01
SPEAKER_00: some really good teaching,
17:04
SPEAKER_00: really good mentoring,
17:05
SPEAKER_00: really good development,
17:06
really good schemes that has allowed me to learn and grow in
17:11
those areas from both
17:12
SPEAKER_00: sides.
17:12
SPEAKER_00: The bigger...
17:14
thing was when I looked at making the switch most of the people
17:17
I talked to they
17:19
were more curious why I hadn't already made the switch a lot of
17:22
the way that I
17:23
coached on the men's side was relationship driven was person
17:28
over player was they
17:29
don't care what you know until they know how much you care it
17:31
was check-ins it was
17:33
circle backs it was noticing body language of the player who
17:37
looks frustrated and
17:38
these are just elements that just work so well on the women's
17:41
side they absolutely
17:42
SPEAKER_00: worked on the men's side I had no
17:44
SPEAKER_00: Didn't feel like I was out of place,
17:46
SPEAKER_00: but people felt like it was going to be a really,
17:48
SPEAKER_00: really good fit and transition.
17:50
And,
17:50
you know,
17:52
usual,
17:52
the people around you that love you the most,
17:54
tell you the truth.
17:54
SPEAKER_02: They were right on the court.
17:57
What most coaches focus on early usually reflects what's most
18:02
important to them.
18:04
SPEAKER_02: What has that been for you all?
18:06
So we had our players for the month of June where we got to lay
18:10
a foundation.
18:12
And so what we did was one day a week for 45 minutes,
18:17
we did ball screen work.
18:19
SPEAKER_00: And I'm talking from the ground up.
18:22
SPEAKER_00: Like from the studs, like how do you set it?
18:24
SPEAKER_00: What's the angle?
18:26
SPEAKER_00: How do you set it up with the ball handler?
18:29
SPEAKER_00: How do you anchor it?
18:30
SPEAKER_00: How do you come off of it?
18:32
SPEAKER_00: When do you come off with speed?
18:33
SPEAKER_00: When do you come off keeping them in your hip?
18:35
SPEAKER_00: When do you drag it?
18:36
SPEAKER_00: When are you reading the bit?
18:37
SPEAKER_00: When are you reading the tag?
18:38
SPEAKER_00: Like all, I mean, from the beginning.
18:41
SPEAKER_00: We took another day and we did everything off the ball screen.
18:45
SPEAKER_00: How do you wide pin?
18:45
SPEAKER_00: How do you down screen?
18:46
SPEAKER_00: How do you back screen?
18:46
SPEAKER_00: How do you flare screen?
18:47
SPEAKER_00: How do you, when do you curl?
18:49
SPEAKER_00: When do you slip?
18:50
SPEAKER_00: When do you reject it?
18:51
Like all this stuff being with those two days is I have a
18:56
pretty good idea of what
18:58
SPEAKER_00: I want us to do offensively,
19:00
SPEAKER_00: but the offensive scheme could change if it needs to.
19:02
I love Lenny Acuff said our men's coach and his introductory
19:06
press conference,
19:07
SPEAKER_00: our style of play will be winning.
19:09
SPEAKER_00: Like,
19:10
SPEAKER_00: I agree,
19:11
SPEAKER_00: like we can make it work however we wanna make it work,
19:14
SPEAKER_00: but I need them to understand how to do all those elements.
19:18
SPEAKER_00: So to me, you asked the question, what are you trying to establish?
19:21
SPEAKER_00: What's important early?
19:22
To me,
19:23
it's IQ and you can't get to calculus if you don't fully
19:27
understand algebra one.
19:28
SPEAKER_00: And so we started with algebra one,
19:30
SPEAKER_00: we'll build up to algebra two,
19:31
SPEAKER_00: we'll get to pre-calc,
19:32
SPEAKER_00: we'll get to the calculus,
19:33
SPEAKER_00: but we need to make sure they understood algebra one.
19:36
SPEAKER_00: And while I'm staying with my horrible metaphors,
19:39
SPEAKER_00: defense than we did an hour and a half price.
19:42
SPEAKER_00: So I wanted them to feel like we, it was a two to one ratio.
19:45
SPEAKER_00: Now,
19:45
SPEAKER_00: granted time,
19:46
SPEAKER_00: it was one to one,
19:46
SPEAKER_00: but I wanted them to feel like it was a two to one defense,
19:50
SPEAKER_00: that this is the level of emphasis on defense.
19:53
SPEAKER_00: This is the level of intentionality on defense.
19:55
SPEAKER_00: It was an hour and a half with almost no offense.
19:58
I mean,
19:58
offense was like out of absolute necessity to be able to guard
20:03
it.
20:03
And so trying to get them to understand defensively,
20:07
we are going to be habit based.
20:09
SPEAKER_00: we are gonna have habits that are so strong to where I've told the staff,
20:13
SPEAKER_00: when we show actions of an opponent,
20:16
SPEAKER_00: If our habits guard the action,
20:18
SPEAKER_00: I don't care if they run it 90% of the game,
20:20
SPEAKER_00: don't show it because our habits should handle it.
20:23
And I want us to be that sound and fundamental and consistent
20:29
in our positioning,
20:30
SPEAKER_00: our rotations,
20:31
SPEAKER_00: our coverages.
20:32
SPEAKER_00: And so that was kind of the building blocks is creating intelligence and
20:38
SPEAKER_00: understanding,
20:40
creating defensive habits and letting them understand the
20:44
toughness in which we
20:46
SPEAKER_00: want to play.
20:47
SPEAKER_02: I frequently, Coach Acuff is one of my favorites clinics.
20:51
He's been on the podcast and coaches like Coach Acuff and
20:55
others that this audience
20:57
SPEAKER_02: is familiar with.
20:58
We frequently talk about the IQ and the specific being the
21:02
decision making.
21:03
SPEAKER_02: In regards to offense,
21:05
SPEAKER_02: is defense,
21:07
SPEAKER_02: does defense require the same level of decision making and IQ?
21:11
SPEAKER_00: I find that offense is jazz music.
21:15
SPEAKER_00: So you say decision making to me, it's reaction response, right?
21:20
SPEAKER_00: We will teach you how to play the instrument.
21:21
SPEAKER_00: We'll teach you how to play the song.
21:23
SPEAKER_00: But on a given night, I don't know what the song is going to sound like.
21:27
I don't know if they're going to deny that reverse pass for us
21:29
to get into the
21:29
SPEAKER_00: shuffle stagger action.
21:31
I don't know if they're going to heat the ball up to where you
21:34
can't see the post-entry pass.
21:35
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if they're going to be in zone or man or press or,
21:39
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
21:40
SPEAKER_00: obviously we'll know based off scouting,
21:41
SPEAKER_00: but I don't know in a given possession exactly what's going to happen.
21:45
SPEAKER_00: So to me,
21:46
SPEAKER_00: it is this ability to flow,
21:48
SPEAKER_00: the ability to quick react,
21:51
SPEAKER_00: quick respond,
21:52
SPEAKER_00: the ability to have multiple tools to go to.
21:55
You know,
21:55
if it's jazz music,
21:56
multiple notes to hit,
21:58
multiple sounds to play.
21:59
SPEAKER_00: And then defense to me, it's science.
22:02
SPEAKER_00: It's hard science.
22:04
It's physics,
22:05
it's chemistry,
22:06
whatever your science and choice is,
22:07
I was bad at all of them.
22:09
But I understand this part of defense is if they do A,
22:13
we do B.
22:14
Every time.
22:15
SPEAKER_00: Non-negotiable.
22:16
SPEAKER_00: To me, you do create intelligence, but it's less about...
22:22
decision making and more about knowing exactly what our
22:28
principles are and what we
22:29
do to influence the offense against those so like i i must have
22:34
said a thousand
22:35
times in june at once we again clarity precedes accountability
22:39
once we established
22:40
SPEAKER_00: the expectation i must have said a thousand times um what do we want
22:45
SPEAKER_00: And they would echo back tough contested twos.
22:47
SPEAKER_00: And I would say, what are we willing to live with?
22:49
SPEAKER_00: And they would say contested threes.
22:50
SPEAKER_00: And I said, what is non-negotiable?
22:52
SPEAKER_00: We're never giving up.
22:52
SPEAKER_00: And they said layups.
22:54
And so when they understand that and they buy into that and
22:58
they have extreme
22:59
SPEAKER_00: ownership with that,
23:01
SPEAKER_00: then we could be really,
23:03
SPEAKER_00: really stout defensively.
23:05
Are you dictating what the offense does or are you reacting to
23:09
what the offense does?
23:11
SPEAKER_02: And then what do you want your players to think that you're doing?
23:15
SPEAKER_00: I want us to be really good in three phases of offense.
23:18
SPEAKER_00: I want us to be really good in transition offense.
23:21
SPEAKER_00: By far, it's the most effective offense.
23:23
SPEAKER_00: It's the most efficient offense, and it's the most fun to play.
23:26
SPEAKER_00: The second is I want them to be really good in freedom offense.
23:30
SPEAKER_00: Now,
23:30
whether that ends up being a continuity ball screen offense or
23:33
an off the ball
23:34
SPEAKER_00: mode,
23:34
SPEAKER_00: traditional motion,
23:36
SPEAKER_00: whatever that ends up looking like,
23:38
SPEAKER_00: where we're not calling it,
23:39
we're more like soccer coaches and we're sitting there and they
23:42
understand the
23:43
SPEAKER_00: basic principles behind the offense and they're going through it.
23:46
But that's going to be an element of what we do because it's
23:48
really,
23:48
really hard to scout.
23:49
SPEAKER_00: It's really hard to prepare for.
23:50
SPEAKER_00: It's really hard for defenses to react to.
23:52
SPEAKER_00: And then the third is going to be specific execution,
23:57
SPEAKER_00: whether that's sets,
23:59
SPEAKER_00: whether that's out of bounds or whatever it might be,
24:02
SPEAKER_00: and whether that is to execute
24:05
SPEAKER_00: A screening action or execute a matchup.
24:10
SPEAKER_00: Right.
24:11
SPEAKER_00: And trying to make that happen as part of it.
24:14
SPEAKER_00: Those would be the three.
24:15
SPEAKER_00: So to me, it's a mix.
24:17
SPEAKER_00: I think I heard somebody say one time, I apologize.
24:21
SPEAKER_00: I can't give them.
24:23
SPEAKER_00: But the first six seconds is yours.
24:25
SPEAKER_00: You earned it.
24:26
SPEAKER_00: You got the stop on defense.
24:28
SPEAKER_00: You get to go make a play in the first six seconds.
24:30
SPEAKER_00: The last six seconds is mine.
24:34
SPEAKER_00: You got to go get a play by you.
24:37
SPEAKER_00: We got to get a shot.
24:38
SPEAKER_00: And the middle 18 is ours.
24:42
SPEAKER_00: We need to execute together.
24:44
SPEAKER_02: So when you, the summertime was four weeks for you all.
24:48
SPEAKER_02: Is that right?
24:48
SPEAKER_00: Four weeks.
24:49
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
24:50
SPEAKER_02: That's not a lot of time compared to what some others are getting.
24:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
24:54
SPEAKER_02: So how are you maximizing that time, especially as a first year coach?
25:01
Because I do have a lot of head high school coaches that listen
25:04
to this and they'd
25:05
SPEAKER_02: love for four weeks before their first game with a full roster.
25:09
SPEAKER_02: So anything that you can give that will help with that,
25:13
SPEAKER_02: I think will be a help to any level coach.
25:16
SPEAKER_00: My dad gives me a lot of grief for a lot of this stuff.
25:19
SPEAKER_00: He was a college basketball coach as well.
25:21
SPEAKER_00: He worked for Lee Rose at Purdue, Charlotte, South Florida.
25:26
SPEAKER_00: And every time I complain about not having enough time to install,
25:29
SPEAKER_00: to get stuff in,
25:30
SPEAKER_00: to get stuff,
25:31
SPEAKER_00: he says,
25:32
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to hear it.
25:33
SPEAKER_00: It was October 15th for about 50 years.
25:36
SPEAKER_00: And we played two weeks later and it was all in.
25:39
so you can do it and so he doesn't have a lot of patience for
25:43
me complaining about
25:44
it and it's a constant reminder that we have enough time we
25:47
really do so to me i
25:49
didn't see four weeks as man that's not a lot of time i thought
25:52
four weeks is
25:53
SPEAKER_00: awesome this is great for me it was about establishing
25:58
SPEAKER_00: The trust and relationship.
26:00
SPEAKER_00: Yes, with a lot of them, I had it, but this is different.
26:03
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm in a different seat.
26:04
SPEAKER_00: They see me in a different light.
26:05
SPEAKER_00: There's a different relationship in place.
26:07
And so that's why the pillar of our culture that we focused on
26:11
in the month of June
26:12
SPEAKER_00: was the loving one.
26:13
SPEAKER_00: So it was wholeheartedness,
26:14
SPEAKER_00: which is knowing that you are flawed and loving yourself regardless.
26:18
It was agape,
26:20
which is knowing that others are flawed and loving them
26:23
regardless.
26:24
It was truth and knowing that the people that love you the most
26:26
tell you the truth.
26:27
SPEAKER_00: And it was Ubuntu and the African term that means I am because we are.
26:31
And this idea that we are a part of something bigger and that
26:33
it's not about me
26:34
SPEAKER_00: being at my best,
26:35
SPEAKER_00: it's about me making the others around me at their best,
26:37
SPEAKER_00: which will inevitably lift me.
26:39
And so those kind of lessons,
26:41
those kind of culture building lessons is where the focus was.
26:45
And so I think if I was talking to a high school coach or I was
26:49
talking to anybody
26:49
SPEAKER_00: who doesn't have the summer or doesn't have a lot of time,
26:53
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
26:53
SPEAKER_00: it would come back to if you want buy in.
26:57
SPEAKER_00: It's not about what you know.
26:59
SPEAKER_00: It's about how much you care.
27:00
SPEAKER_00: Another Doc Rivers-ism,
27:02
SPEAKER_00: if you want to get to what makes a kid tick,
27:06
SPEAKER_00: you get them to talk and listen first.
27:09
SPEAKER_00: And then you can get to what makes them tick.
27:11
SPEAKER_00: And if you want to get them to talk and listen, go rebound for them.
27:14
SPEAKER_00: And so I would make it about that,
27:16
SPEAKER_00: about serving,
27:17
SPEAKER_00: about learning,
27:19
SPEAKER_00: about building the relationship,
27:20
because then you can give them the fire hose of information and
27:25
basketball from
27:25
SPEAKER_00: there because the trust is there.
27:27
SPEAKER_02: This is the last thing,
27:28
SPEAKER_02: and this is a little bit different from what I've been asking you,
27:31
SPEAKER_02: more big picture stuff.
27:32
SPEAKER_02: But I have coaches that are always asking for drills and favorites.
27:37
And I'm going to ask it in this context because I find that
27:40
coaches have go-to drills they use.
27:44
And when I dig deeper,
27:45
they usually use them because,
27:47
one,
27:47
they rep multiple things.
27:49
SPEAKER_02: And two,
27:50
they get something out of the players that usually reflects the
27:54
culture of the
27:55
SPEAKER_02: program.
27:55
SPEAKER_02: This is something that maybe I'll have you come back and talk about.
27:59
SPEAKER_02: You've touched on it throughout.
28:00
But when you talk about your culture and you've talked to me
28:04
about your core
28:04
SPEAKER_02: values,
28:05
SPEAKER_02: they really are your core values.
28:07
SPEAKER_02: Like they actually, you see those things out on the court.
28:11
I don't know that enough coaches are they just don't know how
28:14
to do that.
28:15
Like they maybe have a saying or something that they put on a
28:18
T-shirt and they try
28:19
SPEAKER_02: to teach it and they believe it.
28:21
SPEAKER_02: But those core values really show in everything that you do.
28:25
SPEAKER_02: Can you share not just for the sake of sharing that drill,
28:29
SPEAKER_02: but for the sake of what we've been talking about today?
28:32
This shows who we are about and what I really want them to get
28:37
out of my program.
28:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:40
SPEAKER_00: Larry Shiat,
28:41
SPEAKER_00: who I worked for at Wyoming,
28:43
said that you should be able to go to somebody's practice or
28:46
game blindfolded and
28:48
SPEAKER_00: just listening.
28:49
You should know exactly what their values are,
28:52
what their culture is about.
28:54
SPEAKER_00: You should also be able to go to.
28:56
a team's practice or game with earmuffs on and not be able to
29:00
hear a thing and just
29:02
seeing you should be able to see exactly what their culture is
29:05
and what their
29:06
values are because of that a lot of what we try to do is about
29:11
um it factor and
29:13
it's not it factor as some amorphous you know philosophical it
29:19
it's uh an acronym
29:20
for intelligence and toughness because acronyms are really easy
29:23
to talk through
29:25
SPEAKER_00: We define toughness from Larry Scheidt's culture when we were at Wyoming,
29:29
SPEAKER_00: which was a do,
29:30
SPEAKER_00: ADU,
29:31
SPEAKER_00: aggressive,
29:32
SPEAKER_00: discipline,
29:32
SPEAKER_00: unselfish.
29:33
SPEAKER_00: When we're putting together drills,
29:35
SPEAKER_00: especially if there's something where we want to create toughness,
29:39
SPEAKER_00: right?
29:39
Like what is something that creates aggressiveness,
29:44
discipline,
29:46
and unselfishness?
29:48
know we're really big on taking charges and so we're a no
29:51
middle force baseline
29:53
step up seal down rotation defense um and so one drill that we
29:58
do and this was
30:00
something that we did at uh etsu with jason shea where think
30:04
about like a shell
30:05
four on four but every coach that's on offense has a chair
30:11
slightly behind them and
30:12
SPEAKER_00: slightly to the inside
30:13
and every time the ball gets passed to a coach the player has
30:16
to touch the chair
30:18
it's building the habit of taking away the inside hip right so
30:23
that you're forcing
30:24
the outside every single time you're touching the chair
30:26
touching the chair as we're
30:28
passing around and then on a whistle a coach is driving off as
30:31
the player still
30:32
touches that chair they're driving and now here comes the back
30:35
side step up that we
30:38
SPEAKER_00: so
30:39
SPEAKER_00: David Vogelpohl, Ph.D.
30:39
SPEAKER_00: :
30:39
SPEAKER_00: ends up stepping up taking the charge pass goes out,
30:41
we got the seal down another in rotations and we're live from
30:43
there right so
30:44
SPEAKER_00: building.
30:45
SPEAKER_00: David Vogelpohl, Ph.D.
30:45
SPEAKER_00: :
30:45
SPEAKER_00: This idea of discipline,
30:47
are you taking away that middle every single time unselfishness
30:49
are you taking the
30:50
SPEAKER_00: charge aggressiveness are you flying around and rotating out of it.
30:53
SPEAKER_00: David Vogelpohl, Ph.D.
30:54
:
30:54
To go cover for each other for the next place,
30:57
that would be a way in which.
30:59
SPEAKER_00: You're seeing and hearing and noticing the values within a drill.
31:05
I kind of chuckled to myself there as I was playing the drill
31:08
because I was called
31:09
SPEAKER_00: our bottom weak side defender.
31:10
SPEAKER_00: We were trying to come up with a name for it.
31:13
SPEAKER_00: I know when I went and saw Billy Dom and Mark Dagnall,
31:16
SPEAKER_00: who I worked for,
31:17
SPEAKER_00: coached with Oklahoma State Thunder together,
31:18
they called it the 2-9 because that person could only be there
31:21
for 2.9 seconds
31:22
SPEAKER_00: before they had to get out for defense three seconds,
31:24
SPEAKER_00: right?
31:24
SPEAKER_00: The 2-9.
31:25
SPEAKER_00: I've heard the gaucho.
31:26
SPEAKER_00: I've heard the low man.
31:28
SPEAKER_00: I've heard a bunch of different terms, right, for the bottom.
31:31
SPEAKER_00: So we were trying to come up with our own term.
31:32
SPEAKER_00: What's a one-syllable, quick, efficient term?
31:36
SPEAKER_00: And I said, you know, that's the person who saves the day.
31:40
SPEAKER_00: That's the hero that's got to be there every single time.
31:43
And we were talking about,
31:45
you know,
31:45
is that the Superman or the Superwoman?
31:49
SPEAKER_00: Is that the Iron Man?
31:50
SPEAKER_00: And I said, well, you know who the strongest superhero is.
31:55
SPEAKER_00: And the whole staff said Hulk.
31:56
SPEAKER_00: And I said, OK, that's what we're going to call it.
31:58
SPEAKER_00: So our bottom weak side defender is the Hulk.
32:00
SPEAKER_00: So where's the Hulk?
32:01
SPEAKER_00: Is the Hulk there?
32:02
SPEAKER_00: Who's the Hulk?
32:03
SPEAKER_00: How are we rotating the Hulk?
32:04
SPEAKER_00: So anyways,
32:05
SPEAKER_00: I chuckled to myself because I was thinking about,
32:06
SPEAKER_00: you know,
32:07
we made up that term just because we thought it fit the
32:09
definition of what we're
32:10
SPEAKER_00: trying to get them to understand.
32:12
SPEAKER_02: I love that.
32:13
And the silliest things end up becoming a big part of your
32:16
culture and a big part
32:18
SPEAKER_02: of who you are.
32:18
And I feel like that allows them to take ownership even of that
32:22
kind of thing.
32:22
And those are the kinds of things where you have your
32:24
postseason evaluation
32:26
SPEAKER_02: meetings and conversations and you ask them,
32:28
SPEAKER_02: what do you guys like this year?
32:29
SPEAKER_02: And they mentioned the things that are the goofiest and the silliest.
32:32
but it's made the biggest impact on I'm a part of this program
32:36
that Full Circle now
32:38
helps keep them around for the next year so that they keep
32:41
coming back so that you
32:42
SPEAKER_02: don't have to keep recruiting them every year.
32:44
SPEAKER_02: So this was great,
32:47
SPEAKER_02: and I love the intentionality with everything,
32:49
and the conversation has just confirmed that I'm going to have
32:52
to have you back on
32:53
SPEAKER_02: again.
32:54
Maybe I'll let you go through a whole season first so that you
32:57
can get some more
32:57
SPEAKER_02: stories and get some more things under your belt,
33:00
SPEAKER_02: and then we'll talk again.
33:01
SPEAKER_02: I appreciate any time.
33:03
SPEAKER_02: Sincerely.