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If God’s Grace Is Enough, Why Do We Still Sin? · Relish: a Christian podcast

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  Relish, pleasing or zestful flavor, a quantity just sufficient to flavor,
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  to be pleased or gratified by, enjoy.
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  We are hoping that what we bring to your table today might add some spice to
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  your life. Hello, this is Relish.
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  This week's episode is missing our dear friend Alex, because guess what?
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  He's doing what he does most of the rest of the time, and it's a little intense
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  this time of year because we call it harvest.
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  And so he's doing those things he must do this time of year.
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  In his place, we've got Grant Bender. Grant Bender is an associate pastor with
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  myself, and yeah, a good dude.
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  And he is famous for bringing provocative questions to the office,
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  and so it just seemed natural for him to bring provocative questions to relish,
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  when Alex isn't here to bring those questions as well.
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  So, Will, how are things going? You're in a new role.
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  Is that good? I'm liking it a lot. Do you like the people you work with?
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  I do. I do. I do. What a question.
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  You answer wrong and you're fired. I don't have that power.
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  It has been fun. I do appreciate you being on board. So, spicy question.
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  You said something already earlier today that this was a question.
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  You had the question for me. And this question was probably going to fill a whole episode.
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  And I looked at you and said, okay, should I be anxious or should I be comforted?
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  Maybe I was exaggerating.
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  Okay, I'll take that as well. That'd be fine with me. So we've answered quite
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  a few questions over the years from Relish. And we hope it spiced up life in somebody's way.
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  So if you have some spice that you want to put in some life,
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  Let's relish this moment.
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  I'm, yeah. Okay, okay. No further comment. So to start off, so the grace of
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  God is sufficient to justify us upon salvation or upon belief in him, right? Correct.
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  Is the grace of God sufficient enough to allow us to live a completely sanctified life here and now?
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  I believe, I believe so. Okay. But we have to invest in that. Okay.
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  I mean, while Paul talks about by grace through faith, uh, that.
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  Grace is a wonderful gift of Almighty God. The problem is it is a gift.
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  The blessing is it's a gift. The problem is that it's a gift is the fact that,
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  for it to be a gift, it must be received.
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  And so I think we automatically think that happens.
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  But let's think about it. When we talk about salvation, do we give right off
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  the bat our entire life to Christ, or is there a sectioning off?
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  Well, I'm going to give him this and allow him to transform my life in this
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  way, because here I am an addict and I need to get rid of this addiction,
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  or I know things won't go well.
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  And so it's easy to give away the addiction, and then there might be something
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  else in our life that we don't give away.
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  What I find in warfare, spiritual warfare, healing prayer, and that kind of
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  thing is sometimes we're oblivious to where the chains are still on us.
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  While we've given the deed over to God and God has given us grace in its place,
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  we haven't totally let go of everything.
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  And a gift really isn't a gift until it's fully received.
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  Okay. And so it needs to be received by us, and we need to give God the space in our lives for that.
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  So there's almost a sense our salvation continues to grow.
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  And working out our salvation is one of the things that Paul talks about.
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  And while we're saved immediately, and that salvation is good at the moment.
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  I mean, it grows over time. And I think modern Christianity in so many forms
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  has said, well, as long as you get under the grace of Jesus, you're good.
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  And so then it's not.
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  A—we're not preaching motivation to continue to grow in our walk with Jesus
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  to Christ, to continue to more deeply embrace that grace,
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  cherish the gift, if you will. I mean, God's given the gift.
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  Do we cherish that gift? Or, oh, I'm not going to go this Sunday because I've been saved.
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  Okay. But am I motivated to go because I've been given this gift?
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  I want to receive from this gift. I want to appreciate this gift.
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  I was given something of my grandfather's early in my life, and it was a watch.
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  And I still have that in my little treasure chest of things that are precious to me.
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  Okay, so is this grace precious to us in such a way that we continue to appreciate it,
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  on a day-by-day, week-by-week basis that we want to get to know the giver better?
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  Because part of it's relational.
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  God gave this gift to us.
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  Because of his love for us through the love of his son.
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  So, yeah. Did I get to the second half of that? I think so. I think he answered it well.
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  It's more complicated. I mean, is that the big question you had?
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  Well, I can word it differently to make it more controversial.
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  Oh, I mean, Reformed theology would say, on this side of heaven,
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  you're with, your flesh is always going to be there.
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  Went out. And you have victory over sin and you're free, but at the same time,
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  your flesh isn't, you know, and then you get to the Methodist theology and they're
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  like, you can live perfect lives
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  here and now with the complete dependence on grace of God, of course.
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  And I'm coming out somewhere in between there because, okay,
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  as a pastor, I believe in the salvation.
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  I believe that all along, that when Christ broke through in my life and changed
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  my habits and changed my ways, I gave him ownership.
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  I signed the deed over.
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  It wasn't until maybe seven or eight years ago that I realized that there was
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  a little piece I was hanging on to.
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  And I needed to do some warfare and some healing prayer. And I was amazed at what that did.
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  To deepen my relationship with Jesus Christ. And so doing that healing prayer,
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  I thought, my goodness, got more out of this than I've gotten out of counseling.
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  And so I'm really much aware of the fact that I continue, even after all these
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  years of being Christian, I think it's 50-some.
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  Anyway, all these years of being Christian, I still can get closer to Jesus.
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  I can still get deeper in my relationship.
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  It's like me and my wife. I've known her for a long time. Yeah.
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  And we've been married 46 years. It'll be 47 next year. Wow. And.
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  It's sweeter now than it was before. But we've gotten to know each other a little better.
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  Granted, it's taken 47 years to get to know each other a little better.
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  But the appreciation of the other in that relationship has grown.
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  I liken that to this relationship we have with Christ, this connection we have
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  with Almighty God, the giver of this perfect gift, it should grow.
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  It should be sweeter now than it was when we first received.
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  And all because we intentionally want to get closer to the author of our salvation. Yeah.
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  Who for the joy set before him endured the cross. Hebrews 12. Wow.
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  It's good stuff. That's good stuff. I mean, think about it. I mean,
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  Jesus, when we talk about crucifixion, we don't think joy.
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  But when the writer of Hebrews reflects on that, for the joy set before him, that wasn't the cross.
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  He endured the cross because he knew he'd have a relationship with us.
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  It was part of what he was doing. in light of the witnesses.
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  He was calling us to set ourselves apart and to run this race of life,
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  and to complete his course and to keep our eyes upon Jesus, the author and perfecter
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  of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross. Yeah.
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  That's good stuff. He wants to be in relationship with us. He did this all for
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  a reason. And that's exciting. Yeah.
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  I like that. I like it as well.
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  That gives me a reason to get up and get my coffee in the morning.
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  And to go to work.
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  Yeah. You answered that in great stuff. To delay my retirement.
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  He's retired twice, three times now? Yeah, no. Can't wait one time.
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  Like an old penny keeps coming back okay I guess the question that goes off
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  of that what do you say to the Christian,
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  who is struggling in habitual sin whether it's anger or lust or gossip and they
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  just they believe that they're delivered,
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  but they can't seem to get free from it they're in that rut well I guess what
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  I found in those situations is there's some root to it and,
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  Satan's just good at keeping his little pee pick and pause on our lives and confession.
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  And maybe get a hold of somebody who can help you break the bondage.
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  There's professional prayer counselors all across the United States.
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  The Deeper Walk group has counselors all across the United States.
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  I'm thinking the other one.
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  There's another group that do. Actually, they're on that same site.
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  So if you go to the DeeperWalk website, and over about three,
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  four columns at the top, there are references that you can get as to who's doing
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  healing prayer. And it's amazing how many different groups.
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  So you can either get a DeeperWalk prayer counselor, which is listed on there,
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  but there's also two or three different other groups that DeeperWalk also says,
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  hey, these are people who are helpful.
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  Neil Anderson has a group, Steps to Freedom, that's one of the groups that has a healing prayer.
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  It's as if, and I guess I said it earlier in this episode,
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  we are often oblivious to the roots of what holds us back and draws us back into sin.
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  The habitual part means that.
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  Satan still has some hold on that, and we need to remove his hold on that part of our lives.
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  Otherwise, it continues to be a problem. I mean, think of mold in your shower.
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  I mean, if you don't get to the root of the mold, it just comes back. True.
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  But if you can get to the root of the mold and take care of that root,
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  it won't come back. So when you're cleaning your shower, think about God.
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  Because he would like to take care of the roots of your mold.
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  That sin in your life, God would like to help you take care of those roots.
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  And healing prayer is one way to do that. ask Jesus where the root is.
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  He knows. He knows where it's at, exactly.
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  And I found that very, very helpful to deal with those kind of things in my
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  own life and the lives of those I've counseled with healing prayer.
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  It's really powerful stuff.
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  So.
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  Yeah, it's more than just a little, oh, thank you, Jesus. Please help me with this sin.
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  You've done some healing prayer. It's pretty heavy stuff.
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  It gets the job done, right? It's effective.
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  And it's something that, oh, I suppose we could do on our own,
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  but it really is nice to have somebody guide us in that process.
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  And i have other people guide me yeah in healing prayer even though i am a certified prayer counselor um.
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  I think that's part of the beauty of the body of Christ is we don't have to do it all ourselves.
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  And so I don't have to do my own healing prayer. I can have my brother come
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  over and help me with that.
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  And so we know who those people are in the body and we can use their abilities
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  as they use me for theirs.
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  And so it's reciprocal that way.
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  That's a good answer. And God loves us. I think the thing that probably I mourn,
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  in this process, in this conversation more than anything else is,
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  oh, I've sinned again, so I can't go to church because I've fallen back in my,
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  and so I'm just not worthy.
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  And yet that's not what Jesus is saying.
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  He's saying, hey, come unto me, all you who are heavy laden.
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  I will give you rest. But you got to come. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
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  I'm not going, yeah. Yeah, that's really.
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  You can't sit in the corner of your bedroom and expect that to happen unless
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  you're willing to make a change, make a move.
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  You can enjoy the corner of your bedroom some other time, I guess.
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  You've got to come unto Jesus.
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  It's an action on your part. It's our part to do.
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  Our part's the confession. Our part's the repentance. He will do his part.
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  He will, yeah. I like that. As you were talking, it reminded me of the hymn,
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  What a Friend We Have in Jesus. Oh, yes.
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  Oh, what needless pains we bear, all because we do not carry everything to God
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  in prayer. It's exactly right. Yeah.
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  And just the emphasis on, you know, you can pray alone, but something about praying with people.
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  I don't know. There's something about how God moves when you pray with other
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  people. I agree. I agree.
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  And there's an orneriness in it because so many times,
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  we don't want to go to prayer or we don't want to go ask somebody for help because,
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  Satan would like us to stay in shame. Yeah.
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  It benefits Satan. It benefits his agenda for us to stay in shame.
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  I mean, that's powerful stuff, shame. It is. Uh, it, it drives people to do
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  things they would normally would not normally do otherwise.
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  Uh, and so I think one of the things that I see in so many cases is in my old
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  life, I'll just go there is, uh, I, I,
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  I beat myself up in with shame that I didn't need to bear,
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  I needed to come, confess my sin, repent from that sin, and accept God's guidance
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  how to get out to the other side of it.
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  Yeah. It's shame I didn't need to bear. Yes. Amen.
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  What needless shame we bear. Yes. Just like the hymn you were talking about.
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  Such a good hymn. Needless. Needless shame.
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  Preach it, brother.
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  Well those are two good questions i loved it those were good answers,
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  so if you're listening if you're listening and you need freedom from habitual
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  sin find someone to confess to
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  that you trust and pray with them yeah and and beg them to pray with you,
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  and ask seek knock keep asking keep seeking and keep knocking and if there's
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  a building block of the future church It's going to be that.
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  It's going to be having somebody that you know you can pray with who will pray
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  for you, and it develops that kind of relationship that's contagious.
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  I really think the church will be built on having those kind of relationships
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  with each other and with God that drives the church forward for him, grows for him.
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  It's going to be hearts desiring to get to know God better. Yeah.
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  And it makes sense. He said, let us create man in our own image as a communal group.
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  And then he created man and man was alone.
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  And then he was like, it's not good for man to be alone. Not good for man.
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  And so he brought people. He brought woman.
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  And so if Satan can isolate you, he's already undoing the design of what God desires.
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  That's right. Isolation is not what he desires.
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  Okay. I think next. Next. Have you already done Once Saved, Always Saved?
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  No, not the Eternal Security Bates. Let's do it. Do you think.
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  Once you accept Jesus, you are forever, eternally unable to lose your salvation.
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  On this earth, that was terrible wording of the question, but can you lose your salvation?
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  So let's go to Hebrews chapter 6. And I think the author of Hebrews,
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  God bless him, puts it in a very interesting way.
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  And the reason is because how it's built. Okay, chapter 6, verse 4 of Hebrews.
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  It's impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the
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  heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness
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  of the word of God and the powers of the coming age. That's five things.
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  If they fall away to be brought back to repentance because to their loss,
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  they're crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
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  Okay, we talked earlier about this growing relationship and that it needs to
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  grow in our relationship to God.
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  But look at those five things.
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  Enlightened. Okay, enlightened to who God is. Tasted the heavenly gift.
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  Who have shared in the Holy Spirit.
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  Who have tasted the word of God. That's knowing God's word.
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  And the powers of the coming age. Can you imagine experiencing all five of those
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  and saying, yeah, I think I'm done with this Jesus business.
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  I can't imagine. And so part of me saying, if somebody has fallen away,
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  it's probably because they haven't gotten all that.
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  And the second part of it is if they've gotten all that, they probably won't fall away.
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  Now, is that a squirrely way of answering that trick question?
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  Because basically I didn't answer the question. I just gave you criteria.
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  Well, if they've had all five of those, they won't fall away.
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  But who's had all five of those?
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  Then they might be in danger of falling away. So then if they haven't got all
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  five of them, are they fully saved?
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  So I just complicated the question. That being said, I was with a Baptist preacher
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  one time, and we were on this path because he was going once saved, always saved.
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  And I preach assurance of salvation. We can live our life with the assurance
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  that we're saved in Jesus Christ because we can live out what he's asked us to do.
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  And so then we don't have to doubt it. We don't have to live in shame.
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  We don't have to have all those things that hold us back.
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  And he was saying well,
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  He believed, after reading this, that they can't fall away.
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  It's impossible for them to
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  fall away. I don't know how you pull that from this passage. Well, he did.
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  This is, yeah. Dear Baptist, please call in.
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  So he was saying it's impossible to fall away because you've got all these things.
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  Yeah. And I'm saying, I haven't known anybody who has all five of these right
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  down pat, Because you have to interpret what enlightened means.
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  Does that mean enlightened? Like Paul says, you know, we as fools now know what
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  the learned don't know because, you know, we've got this Holy Spirit thing going
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  on. And then the taste of the heavenly gift.
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  Okay, what is that heavenly gift unless it's salvation itself?
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  And then who have shared in the Holy Spirit. So there's the traits of the Holy
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  Spirit, gifts of the Holy Spirit.
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  But there's quite a list there of joy, peace, long-suffering,
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  who have tasted the Word of God.
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  Now, that we've got today, whereas when they wrote this, the people who the
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  author was writing to, these Hebrews, would have had the Old Testament.
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  They would not have had the New.
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  They might have had one of Paul's letters, but we don't know if they had any more than that.
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  And uh then the powers of the coming age that means a power from beyond this age,
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  brought back to this age wow so is that resurrection or is that uh the power uh.
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  Uh yeah i guess that resurrection power is sort of what i was thinking because
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  that's a future yeah for all of us um.
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  Yeah. That's quite a list. It's a, it's a big list. And, you know,
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  Paul doesn't, he doesn't present it as if it's like a, oh, this can never happen.
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  Right. It's like if they were to fall away, they would be crucifying the son
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  of God again. Right. So I don't know.
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  It seems very hard to pull the opposite out of the text without your own opinion. Right.
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  But notice the illustration that follows.
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  Land that drinks in rain often falling on it, and that produces a crop useful
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  for those to whom it is farmed, receives the blessing of God.
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  But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and in danger of being cursed.
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  In the end, it will be burned.
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  Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we're confident of better things
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  in your case. So basically, the author is saying, so what's your fruit?
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  Yeah. What's your fruit?
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  Your life will prove out the salvation that God has already put in it. True.
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  And so if your life isn't showing that fruit, it's thorny and thistally.
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  It's in danger of being cursed. It's in danger of being burned. Yeah.
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  Yeah, 100%. In 1 Corinthians 3, verses 11 to 15, there's an illustration there that Paul uses and says,
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  no other foundation can be laid than that which is already laid,
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  which is Christ Jesus. Yes.
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  Upon this foundation, then, you can build with,
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  gold, silver, costly stones, or wood, hay, and straw.
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  And then he says that that will be tested as with fire. And guess which ones are going to burn up?
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  Wood, hay, and straw are going to burn up. But if you've invested, I,
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  often use the word invested in connection with the Scripture,
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  because if you invest with gold, silver, costly stones on top of your salvation
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  in Jesus Christ, then that will go through the fire.
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  In fact, it'll be purified by that fire. And yeah.
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  Amen. That was a good answer.
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  Short answer by Don, yes. Not so short answer.
• 25:37
  Sorry. Well, I think that's been, I think that might be enough for an episode.
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  And we hope if it's an episode that has touched your heart, maybe reach out,
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  leave something in the comments.
• 25:49
  Maybe another question. Yes.
• 25:50
  Alex gathers up the questions. He shoots them our way. And that's great.
• 25:55
  We do appreciate his work behind the scenes as well as when he's here with us.
• 25:59
  And thank you, Grant, for being part of this and a very spicy question. Good deal. Good deal.
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  We'll maybe not eat Mexican at lunch next time.
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  We do appreciate your coming. And until next time, may God lead you and bless you.
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  And when we get together, let's do it in the Lord's name.
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  How do I sign up now? I don't usually sign up. Alex, Lord willing.
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  Oh, yes. And we'll see you again, Lord willing.
• 26:34
  Yes. Sorry about that. Thank you for joining us for this podcast.
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  Feel free to become part of this ministry by sharing it with others.
• 26:41
  Our goal is to help each other grow deeper in our understanding of who God is
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  and is calling to us in our daily lives.
• 26:48
  Thank you again for joining us and may God bless your day.