Latest / UNCHAINEDTV'S Truth Files with Jane Velez-Mitchell / UnchainedTV: Happy Birthday, Gene Baur, Farm Sanctuary President!

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UnchainedTV: Happy Birthday, Gene Baur, Farm Sanctuary President! · UNCHAINEDTV'S Truth Files with Jane Velez-Mitchell

0:00
A journalist and the founder of the unchained
0:02
TV free streaming network Jane Velez Mitchell.
0:06
You're about to hear a secret solution to
0:08
the problems that plague our world.
0:10
If you want to revolutionise your health, get
0:12
truly joyful, and jump to the next phase
0:15
of human evolution, all it takes is one
0:18
simple choice.
0:19
Now here's your host, Jane Velez Mitchell.
0:24
We've got some breaking news for you people.
0:28
This is really important breaking news.
0:31
It is Gene Bower's birthday, and you may
0:35
not know Gene, but millions of people do.
0:40
He is considered the father of the farmed
0:43
animal sanctuary movement.
0:46
He is also even called the conscience of
0:51
the food movement.
0:53
So Gene Bower, sitting here with a beautiful
0:56
sheet, is the co-founder and president of
0:59
Farm Sanctuary Rescue Education Advocacy.
1:03
There are two beautiful sanctuaries, and these animals
1:08
are ambassadors, showing that farmed animals have all
1:14
the feelings of a dog or a cat
1:15
or even people, and that there's really only
1:20
advantages in being kind to them.
1:23
So without further ado, I want to welcome
1:26
Gene Bower, and that's a little happy birthday
1:30
music in the background.
1:32
I just want to say Gene, you are
1:36
my hero.
1:38
I am so honoured that you're spending an
1:40
hour with us.
1:42
Take it away.
1:43
Where is Farm Sanctuary today?
1:47
You were founded in 1986, and you have
1:51
grown into a global movement, really the face
1:54
of the farmed animal sanctuary movement.
1:57
Yeah, well thank you so much, Gene.
1:59
It's great to be with you.
2:00
We go back decades, and it's wonderful to
2:03
celebrate my 62nd birthday here with you.
2:07
I'll also say that my birthday is actually
2:09
next week, but you know that timing didn't
2:11
work out, so we're doing it today, and
2:14
I'm grateful for this opportunity.
2:16
So Farm Sanctuary started back in 1986, and
2:19
the idea then was to document what was
2:22
happening to animals in the food system, and
2:26
we would routinely find living animals that were
2:29
left for dead and discarded like garbage.
2:32
So we started rescuing them, and we now
2:34
operate sanctuaries in New York and California, where
2:38
the animals are our friends, not our food,
2:41
and where we encourage people to come and
2:43
get to know these individuals and recognise that
2:45
they're not that different than cats or dogs,
2:49
that they have feelings, they have memories, they
2:52
have personalities.
2:54
They want to be treated with kindness, just
2:56
like any other animal, or even human for
3:00
that matter.
3:01
And so we have sanctuaries where animals get
3:03
to enjoy their lives, and where people get
3:05
to visit them.
3:07
We do educational work.
3:08
We go to schools and other places to
3:11
raise awareness about the many harms of our
3:14
food system, and about the benefits of eating
3:16
plants instead of animals, and we advocate for
3:20
reforms in our food system.
3:22
We're taking a resource-based approach to system
3:26
change, meaning that we're trying to shift resources,
3:29
things like the billions of dollars of government
3:32
subsidies that are spent every year, and we
3:34
want to move those away from factory farming
3:36
to support a healthy and just plant-based
3:40
food system.
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So we do rescue work, we do educational
3:44
work, and we do advocacy work.
3:46
Well, you are just so extraordinary, and you
3:50
know, I was looking over some of the
3:51
videos in preparation for our interview, and what
3:56
what's really struck me was the complexity, the
3:59
complexity of these rescues you do, and how
4:02
much work, and how much coordination, and how
4:03
many people, and it's just extraordinary.
4:06
So it's not just about running a couple
4:08
of sanctuaries with some happy animals, it's about
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getting animals out of these terrible situations, by
4:14
hook or by crook, and then doing all
4:16
the complicated things, like transportation.
4:23
Absolutely, Michael in Los Angeles, your thoughts for
4:32
Gene Bauer.
4:35
Yes, hi Gene.
4:36
First, I want to wish you a very
4:38
happy birthday, and thanks for all you've done
4:40
for many animals for many, many years.
4:44
My question is, I've always been intrigued about
4:46
your experience selling vegan hot dogs back in
4:49
the 80s in the parking lot at Grateful
4:52
Dead concerts.
4:53
How was that like?
4:54
Because a lot of their fans I know
4:56
are free spirits to begin with, but those
4:58
were the really early days of veganism, and
5:01
I was wondering how well you did selling
5:02
them.
5:03
Also, where did you even find vegan hot
5:06
dogs back in those days?
5:07
Thank you.
5:09
Well, that's a great question.
5:11
Do you mind if I play a little
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clip first that really takes us back to
5:17
those days, and then we're going to approach
5:21
that question.
5:23
Sure, absolutely.
5:24
Yes.
5:25
Hi everybody, this is Gene Bauer from Farm
5:27
Sanctuary in the van that started Farm Sanctuary,
5:30
and we used to sell veggie hot dogs
5:33
at Grateful Dead shows out of this van,
5:35
and we actually have some old bumper stickers
5:36
here from those old days.
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Grateful Dead ticket from like, was it 1983
5:44
even, but this was some of the history
5:48
of this van, and the Grateful Dead are
5:52
still playing.
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Farm Sanctuary is still trucking.
5:56
Wow, that was incredible.
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Tell us about those early days.
6:00
Yeah, so when we started back in 1986,
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we were an all-volunteer organisation, and to
6:07
raise funds, we'd sell vegan hot dogs outside
6:09
of our van at Grateful Dead shows, and
6:12
it was a very open-minded crowd.
6:14
I would say among Deadheads, there's probably a
6:17
higher percentage of vegetarians and vegans than in
6:20
the general population, and also just people more
6:23
open-minded than most, and so it was
6:27
a very receptive crowd, a very receptive audience,
6:30
and some great ideas actually came out of
6:32
conversations there.
6:34
In fact, our first bumper sticker was based
6:37
on what one of these Deadheads came up
6:39
and said to me.
6:40
He said, you know what would be great
6:42
on a bumper sticker?
6:43
If you love animals called pets, why do
6:46
you eat animals called dinner?
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And we agreed, and that was our first
6:49
bumper sticker.
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If you love animals called pets, why do
6:52
you eat animals called dinner?
6:54
And I'm also really happy to say that,
6:57
you know, the Grateful Dead, or the Dead
6:59
and Company, I should say, are still playing,
7:01
and they recently have had a residency at
7:05
the Sphere in Las Vegas, and Farm Sanctuary
7:08
was invited to have an outreach table there.
7:11
So I was recently in Las Vegas doing
7:14
outreach to people going to the Grateful Dead
7:18
shows, and a guy came up to me
7:20
and reminded me and remembered buying a veggie
7:23
dog from us back in the 1980s in
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Wisconsin.
7:27
So folks that care about animals and that
7:31
choose not to eat animals are very passionate,
7:34
and finding vegan food back in the 80s
7:38
was a lot harder than it is now.
7:40
So many of the people that came to
7:42
our meatless hot dog van were very excited
7:45
to be there, and they still remember it
7:46
to this day.
7:47
And you had quite a beard on you
7:49
there.
7:50
Wow, look at that.
7:52
That was back in 1986 or 7 or
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8, somewhere in those in those years.
7:57
Yes.
7:57
Wow, that's extraordinary.
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And your Farm Sanctuary is the first farmed
8:03
animal sanctuary and set basically the template.
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Now there are hundreds, maybe even thousands around
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the United States, certainly thousands around the world.
8:12
We've got more callers.
8:15
Paige in Los Angeles, your question or thought
8:18
for Gene Bauer?
8:20
Well first of all, I may have seen
8:22
you at the Dead concert I went to
8:24
in 1989.
8:27
Man, that dates me.
8:29
Thank you for bringing awareness then.
8:32
Gene, hi, happy birthday.
8:34
And my question for you is, how can
8:37
we do better as activists in 2024?
8:42
What are your thoughts?
8:44
Thank you.
8:45
No, well thank you for the question, and
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I hope we did cross paths back in
8:50
89, and we'll cross paths again in the
8:53
future.
8:54
So for activists, you know, people who care
8:58
about this earth, and for those of us
9:01
who care about how humans mistreat other animals,
9:04
you know, some days can be pretty challenging
9:06
to just, you know, feel the weight of
9:09
the cruelty, the violence, the destruction, the needless
9:12
harm that we cause through our factory farming
9:15
system.
9:16
But it's important not to get sort of
9:19
dragged down into that, not to dwell into
9:21
that, not to run those images over and
9:25
over in our minds to the extent we
9:27
can, to the extent we can not run
9:30
those around in our minds.
9:32
For me, I try to dwell in the
9:35
things that I can do instead of being
9:38
upset with the things that I can't do.
9:41
And every day I make choices about what
9:44
I eat, and I've been a vegan since
9:45
1985, so I'm always choosing to eat plants
9:48
instead of animals.
9:50
But I'm also increasingly now trying to support
9:53
businesses, like vegan restaurants, for example, or local
9:57
farmers that are growing plant-based foods, and
10:00
local businesses that are supporting a vegan lifestyle.
10:03
So we vote with our dollars, and for
10:05
those of us with the ability to do
10:07
that, I strongly encourage that.
10:10
And for folks for whom it might be
10:12
harder to go completely vegan, just reducing the
10:16
amount of animal products we are engaged in
10:19
is important.
10:20
And I think as vegan activists, it's important
10:23
to celebrate any small step in the right
10:26
direction, to celebrate incremental improvements and changes, and
10:32
to not let perfect be the enemy of
10:35
the good.
10:36
We need to be practical while also maintaining
10:39
our ideals, but working to find common ground
10:44
with others and go forward together in a
10:48
more compassionate way.
10:49
So as a younger activist, I was a
10:52
little less sort of accepting of people who
10:55
weren't going as fast as I thought they
10:57
should go, for instance.
10:59
And as time has gone, I've become, I
11:01
think, more empathetic with how, for some people,
11:06
it takes time.
11:07
And we just need to celebrate every step.
11:09
And I think by celebrating small steps like,
11:11
say, Meatless Mondays, for example, we then encourage
11:15
people to take further steps.
11:18
I think if somebody stops eating meat on
11:20
Monday, and they, for example, tell a vegan
11:23
activist, I'm going meatless Monday, you know, a
11:27
younger version of me might have said, well,
11:28
what about Tuesday and the rest of the
11:30
week, you know, and I still may think
11:31
that, but articulating that and sort of dismissing
11:35
this person's desire to do better, I think,
11:39
can have negative consequences in terms of their
11:43
ability and their enthusiasm to make changes.
11:45
So celebrate positive steps, build on those positive
11:49
steps.
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And I think that's a really effective way
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to create change.
11:53
We've got another caller, Nilo Farr in Dallas,
11:57
Texas, your question or thought for Farm Sanctuary's
12:00
Jean Bauer.
12:04
Built a legacy for animal protection work.
12:07
Thank you so much.
12:09
For the sake of argument, the small welfare
12:14
approach, approaches such as Meatless Mondays or Journeys
12:19
Toward Veganism, one can argue that these welfare
12:25
moves have actually turned the animal protection backwards.
12:31
And that's why, you know, we are in
12:33
2024 and we are experiencing massive systematic exploitation
12:42
and killing of animals.
12:44
So in my opinion, I'm with your younger
12:49
years, but yeah, if you could elaborate a
12:53
little bit more on that, coming from an
12:55
abolitionist approach, these welfarist moves have actually taken
13:01
us backwards.
13:02
Thanks.
13:03
Now, good provocative question.
13:06
Yes.
13:07
No, thank you for the question.
13:08
I think it's important for us to have
13:09
these kinds of conversations.
13:11
And I think there is an argument to
13:14
be made for how less bad systems like
13:18
giving animals more space, for example, preventing certain
13:21
of the worst cruelties can be used to
13:25
promote more animal consumption.
13:29
And I think the industry is very quick
13:30
to greenwash and to make conditions sound better
13:33
than they are.
13:34
So we need to be very mindful of
13:36
that.
13:36
But I also believe that working on these
13:39
laws over the years to elevate concerns about
13:43
animals in the food system has helped to
13:46
raise awareness.
13:48
And it is true that we are still
13:51
facing a global crisis in terms of the
13:54
billions of animals who are suffering, also in
13:57
terms of how more and more animal agriculture
14:01
is occurring in more parts of the world.
14:04
And this is a real problem, but also
14:07
the waste.
14:08
So the number of animals raised in the
14:10
U.S. has consistently increased.
14:13
But one of the reasons for that is
14:15
not necessarily that people in the U.S.
14:18
are eating more animals, but that there is
14:20
more food waste and also that more animal
14:23
products are being exported.
14:25
And so it's complicated to make an assertion
14:31
that these welfare reforms have actually caused more
14:35
animals to be harmed.
14:37
But I do believe that we need to
14:39
be very mindful about messaging around welfare reforms.
14:45
So when we have, for example, work to
14:47
ban certain cruel confinement systems, we say that
14:51
animals that are raised in systems where they
14:54
have more space are less bad, but they're
14:57
not good.
14:58
And I think we always need to be
15:00
clear that eating plants instead of animals is
15:04
ultimately what we think makes the most sense.
15:07
And we need to continuously advocate for people
15:10
to eat plants instead of animals.
15:13
So it's a nuanced situation, and we work
15:18
to end cruelty, but also to create a
15:20
vegan world.
15:21
And we need to be mindful about how
15:23
we message around welfare reforms and make sure
15:27
that those do not become a new, still
15:31
inhumane normal.
15:33
The normal that we want to create is
15:35
a vegan world.
15:36
So it's a process.
15:38
And I think these welfare reforms are part
15:41
of that process.
15:43
And what we are doing now at Farm
15:45
Sanctuary is, in addition to supporting laws to
15:49
end some of the worst cruelties, we're really
15:52
leaning into structural changes in the food system
15:56
to try to bring resources out of factory
15:59
farms into plant-based agriculture.
16:03
So that's an area where we're putting a
16:06
lot of energy now and a lot of
16:07
focus.
16:08
We want to work with farmers and encourage
16:12
them and support them in producing plant foods
16:15
instead of animal foods.
16:16
We need to continue educating consumers and addressing
16:20
and challenging myths that factory farms have put
16:23
out forever.
16:25
Myths like factory farming is an efficient way
16:28
to feed the world.
16:29
It absolutely is not.
16:31
Myths like we need meat for protein or
16:33
cow's milk for calcium.
16:34
Those are myths and that's not true.
16:37
So we need to continue to challenge these
16:40
notions that agribusiness continuously puts out there and
16:43
then demonstrate solutions through plant-based agriculture.
16:46
All right.
16:46
And we've got so many callers.
16:49
Let's zip through these.
16:51
Very excited that so many people are calling
16:53
in.
16:54
Lindsay and Tarzana, then followed by Sarah.
16:57
Go ahead, Lindsay.
17:00
Jane, happy birthday.
17:01
I want to say happy birthday.
17:03
And it's an honour to speak to you.
17:04
My question, actually, Paige touched on it and
17:09
also the last caller.
17:10
So I'm going to move to my second
17:12
question.
17:13
A lot of people are kind of moving
17:15
off the grid.
17:16
And I think there's a tendency to people
17:18
wanting to start these micro sanctuaries.
17:22
And Ethan, what would be your advice to
17:25
them?
17:25
Are you for it?
17:27
And what advice could you give them?
17:29
And also for future sanctuary owners, you know,
17:32
young people coming up, what is your advice
17:35
to them?
17:36
Thank you.
17:38
No, thank you for the question.
17:40
I think it's wonderful that more people want
17:43
to provide sanctuary and safety for animals who
17:46
have experienced trauma and suffering.
17:49
My advice to large sanctuaries, small sanctuaries, new
17:54
sanctuaries, any sanctuaries is don't get over your
17:58
head.
17:58
Start small, be very thoughtful and only do
18:03
what you can manage well, because unfortunately, sometimes
18:08
sanctuary operators get over their head and then
18:12
difficult times ensue.
18:15
And we have to acknowledge and recognise the
18:18
fact that as sanctuary operators, we basically live
18:22
in an ethical impossibility.
18:26
Ethically, we must rescue every single one of
18:29
the billion of animals, but practically it's impossible.
18:33
So we need to live with that ethical
18:36
impossibility, do the best we can, help the
18:38
individuals we can and give them the best
18:41
lives possible at sanctuary, but then also work
18:44
on systemic reforms and structural changes.
18:47
So ultimately, there's not going to be a
18:49
need to rescue animals in the first place.
18:51
So that's that's so I would say start
18:53
slow and be very, very thoughtful about not
18:56
getting over your head.
18:58
All right, Sarah, your question or thought for
19:01
G.
19:01
Bauer?
19:03
Oh, my question actually is about education and
19:08
everybody talks about the future of our, you
19:11
know, the children and ones that are in
19:13
school.
19:14
And how do you get the message about
19:17
the farmed animals and all of the stuff?
19:19
How do you get that to the kids
19:20
or how do you get them to do
19:21
field trips or what kind of programmes do
19:24
you think exist for these animal sanctuaries?
19:26
Thank you and happy birthday.
19:27
No, thank you very much.
19:28
And yeah, I think we really need to
19:31
do an awful lot to educate adults and
19:34
also the next generation.
19:36
And at Farm Sanctuary, we have a very
19:38
active humane education programme where people can go
19:41
online and download content for schools or for
19:45
other educational purposes and also visiting the sanctuary
19:49
is something we encourage, you know, children and
19:53
adults and everybody to do to get to
19:55
know these animals as individuals, as friends, not
19:59
as food.
19:59
But education is absolutely important.
20:02
And in addition to education about the sentience
20:05
of other animals, I think we need to
20:08
do education about the benefits of eating plants
20:11
instead of animals, about the inefficiency of animal
20:15
agriculture, how we can feed more people with
20:17
less land and fewer resources through plant based
20:20
agriculture instead of animal agriculture.
20:23
I think we need to raise awareness about
20:26
the many harms of the animal agriculture industry.
20:29
So that is also part of education.
20:31
And we do this through programmes in schools,
20:33
but also through the media, through getting op
20:36
-eds published.
20:37
We've recently done a fair bit to raise
20:39
awareness about avian influenza, bird flu, which has
20:43
killed close to 100 million birds in the
20:46
U.S. so far.
20:47
And so we've gotten that message out in
20:50
mainstream publications.
20:52
So we'll continue doing education in schools and
20:55
also well beyond schools.
20:57
Wow.
20:58
OK, our next caller is Mick Davoudian in
21:02
Los Angeles.
21:03
Your question or thought, Mick?
21:07
Good afternoon.
21:08
Thank you, Jane.
21:09
Hi, Gene.
21:10
I've met you a couple of times in
21:12
the past and it's great talking to you
21:14
today.
21:15
So happy birthday in advance of next week.
21:18
You know, you and I are pretty much
21:20
the same age.
21:21
I went vegetarian as a teenager, but I
21:24
didn't go vegan until about 12 years ago.
21:27
To put it simply, I was just ignorant
21:30
to what was happening in the dairy and
21:32
egg industry.
21:33
So my first question, if you don't mind,
21:35
I have a two parter.
21:36
My first question is, how did you find
21:38
out at such a young age about veganism?
21:41
So you were selling vegan hot dogs and
21:42
so on.
21:42
And then as a follow up to, I
21:45
think Lindsay asked a question about micro sanctuaries.
21:49
So many well-meaning people start sanctuaries without
21:52
necessary knowledge, experience, preparation and, of course, most
21:56
importantly, finances.
21:57
And as you said, they end up in
21:59
a bit of a hole.
22:00
And then those of us who love animals
22:02
are last minute scrambling to help.
22:05
I'm wondering, I would actually love to see
22:08
a programme, maybe such as Farm Sanctuary, who
22:11
has resources, come up with a playbook of
22:14
some sort, maybe, you know, starting a dummy,
22:17
starting a sanctuary for dummies, let's say.
22:19
What are your thoughts on this?
22:22
Yeah, thank you very much for that question.
22:25
People who are interested in starting a sanctuary,
22:27
I encourage to reach out to us here
22:29
at Farm Sanctuary and we'll be happy to
22:31
provide advice and support and and also cautionary
22:35
tales about what should or should not be
22:38
done.
22:38
And, you know, you're raising this question about
22:42
or reminding me about the vegan hot dogs
22:44
we sold at Grateful Dead shows.
22:45
And I forgot to respond to that part
22:48
of the earlier question, like, where did we
22:49
get these hot dogs?
22:50
They were actually Loma Linda Linguettes and Loma
22:54
Linda is connected to the Seventh-day Adventist
22:57
Church, which promotes plant-based eating.
23:00
I think they take that from an interpretation
23:02
of the Bible.
23:04
But wherever there was a Seventh-day Adventist
23:06
Church, we could, you know, often find these
23:09
veggie dogs and they came in cans.
23:10
So they were very easy to travel with.
23:13
And your other question about, you know, my
23:15
going vegan at a fairly young age, I
23:19
early on just started really immersing myself in
23:24
this and started learning about animal agriculture writ
23:28
large and ultimately came to realise that what
23:32
happens to cows on dairy farms or chickens
23:35
and egg production is sometimes worse than what
23:38
happens to other animals that are raised specifically
23:42
for meat.
23:43
And then after being exploited in dairy production,
23:46
for example, the cows are also ultimately slaughtered.
23:50
In the case of chickens exploited for egg
23:52
production, they're also killed when they're no longer
23:55
profitable.
23:56
So those are among the worst, most abusive
23:59
industries.
24:00
And so I did notice that early on.
24:03
And so I went vegan pretty much right
24:06
after I went vegetarian.
24:08
We've got Tiffany in Los Angeles.
24:11
Your question or thought for Gene Bauer as
24:13
he approaches his birthday.
24:16
Yes, thank you for taking my call, Jane
24:18
and Gene.
24:19
Happy birthday.
24:20
And I love seeing the old photos way
24:22
back in the day.
24:23
You were so ahead of the times.
24:25
I wanted to ask you, what's something that
24:28
that's been a challenge or sort of a
24:33
hardship that you weren't expecting that would be
24:35
surprising to us or funny with running a
24:38
sanctuary?
24:40
Well, I think that over the years, what
24:44
I've observed is just how sort of foreign
24:47
this concept of farm animals as friends is
24:50
to some people.
24:52
And it's been really difficult to see how
24:56
they're seen just as commodities, not as living,
24:59
feeling creatures and how sometimes veterinarians have been
25:02
very slow to provide veterinary care for sick
25:07
cows or chickens or pigs because economically, they
25:11
didn't think it made sense.
25:13
And one of the stories I often tell
25:14
is about a calf who I found left
25:18
for dead at a stockyard.
25:19
He was sent to the stockyard.
25:21
On the day he was born, he was
25:23
still wet from afterbirth and he was dying
25:25
of hypothermia.
25:26
I brought him to a nearby veterinarian and
25:29
she said, what are you wasting your time
25:31
for?
25:31
It makes no economic sense.
25:33
And I had to really convince her that,
25:35
you know, to me, this was not about
25:36
economics.
25:37
This was about trying to help an individual.
25:39
She finally gave him the treatment he needed.
25:41
And I'm happy to say he recovered and
25:43
he his name was Opie.
25:45
He ended up weighing close to three thousand
25:47
pounds and living with us for about 18
25:49
years.
25:50
So but veterinarians who are ideally situated to
25:54
provide care for animals and to understand animals
25:57
are sometimes desensitised in veterinary school.
26:01
And I studied agricultural economics at Cornell University.
26:05
I got a master's degree there and I
26:07
went into that programme as a vegan to
26:10
really get an understanding of how ag students
26:14
are indoctrinated.
26:15
And I was in an animal science class
26:17
and I watched how these young students were
26:20
being acculturated to accept certain cruelties to animals.
26:25
And I write about this in my book
26:27
Farm Sanctuary, Changing Hearts and Minds About Animals
26:29
and Food.
26:30
But just how we are such social animals
26:33
and we're very much impacted by the social
26:37
ecosystem we are in.
26:39
And and so that is a challenge.
26:42
And and it's the the the reality we
26:46
live with.
26:47
And so we need to start creating a
26:48
new kind of ecosystem, a new way of
26:51
interacting with other animals.
26:52
And this is where I think sanctuaries are
26:54
so important because we walk the talk of
26:58
looking at other animals as our friends, not
27:00
our food.
27:01
They are fellow earthlings.
27:03
They're co-inhabitants of this earth, co-creators
27:06
of our ultimate reality.
27:08
Right.
27:08
And so how do we live with them
27:10
in a mutually respectful way?
27:12
And that concept is something that is very
27:16
foreign to many people, unfortunately.
27:18
And there are also biases that we have
27:21
in society that are sometimes invisible to us
27:24
and negative stereotypes about other animals.
27:28
And a couple of examples are when we
27:30
call somebody a pig, it's a put down
27:33
for the person, but it's an inherent put
27:35
down of a pig or pigs.
27:38
Being called a turkey similarly is not a
27:40
compliment.
27:41
So there are these subtle ways that we
27:44
routinely denigrate victims of our abuse.
27:49
And and this this has become normalised.
27:52
So we're just that's one of the big
27:53
challenges is to undo that indoctrination.
28:00
Well, very well said.
28:01
We're going to have our last caller and
28:03
then cut it off because I have some
28:04
questions myself.
28:05
Annie in Sherman Oaks, your question for Jean
28:08
Bauer of Farm Sanctuary.
28:11
Hi, thank you, Jane.
28:12
Thank you so much for the show and
28:14
happy, happy birthday, Jean.
28:16
I met you multiple times and your fur
28:19
babies that you've rescued are incredible experience.
28:23
I just can't get enough.
28:24
I just have a parting anxiety when I
28:28
have to leave.
28:29
But I know they're in amazing hands.
28:32
One of the things that bothers me is
28:35
we know the fact that animal agriculture has
28:40
very strong hold like a mob on our
28:44
government.
28:45
How and in what way we can expedite
28:49
to to do this change now.
28:53
And I know subsidy is enormous part of
28:56
it.
28:56
And subsidies are taxed billions of dollars from
28:59
our tax is used against.
29:01
All right.
29:01
And the animals.
29:03
Good question.
29:04
How do we end the subsidies?
29:07
Thank you, Annie.
29:08
Yes.
29:09
No, thank you for that question.
29:10
So right now, the Farm Bill is being
29:12
discussed in Washington, D.C. This legislation allocates
29:17
hundreds of billions of dollars.
29:19
And so we're urging that that money stop
29:22
going to factory farms.
29:23
And we're also just trying to defend certain
29:25
humane laws that we've gotten passed.
29:28
But it's going to be a long term.
29:32
Struggle, I'm sorry to say, and so there
29:35
are some things that we have a lot
29:37
more control over, and that includes our own
29:40
dietary choices, so each of us every day
29:43
can make important choices that do ultimately make
29:46
a difference, especially when they start adding up.
29:48
So eating plant based and living a vegan
29:52
lifestyle and encouraging others to do so or
29:55
to reduce their consumption of animal products are
29:57
all very important steps we can make.
30:00
And also, we live in a democracy which
30:04
is a participatory sport.
30:06
So we also do need to engage there
30:08
to the extent we can.
30:10
At the very least, we should write to
30:12
our elected officials, let them know our concerns
30:14
and what we feel should be done from
30:17
a policy standpoint.
30:19
And to start really digging into agricultural policy,
30:23
whether it has to do with animal cruelty,
30:26
climate issues, resource issues, environmental destruction, and weigh
30:32
in and advocate for a plant based food
30:34
system instead of an animal agriculture food system.
30:38
And people can go to the Farm Sanctuary
30:39
website, farmsanctuary.org, and there's a take action
30:43
button there where people can click on that
30:45
take action button.
30:46
It'll take you to a page with a
30:48
few different things you can do to make
30:50
a difference.
30:50
Absolutely.
30:51
And join Farm Sanctuary.
30:53
Well, we're going to have one bonus caller,
30:56
Michelle, in Los Angeles, and that's it because
30:59
I got some questions for you to go
31:00
ahead, Michelle.
31:02
Hi, Jane.
31:04
Hi, Jane.
31:05
Happy birthday in advance.
31:08
It's so inspiring to listen to you speak,
31:11
and I just wanted you to know, Jane
31:13
told me a while back that you have
31:15
this thing that we need to meet people
31:18
where they are.
31:20
And I wanted to know from you, I
31:23
have lots of friends and family who are
31:25
not vegan.
31:26
And every time I talk to them, just
31:29
recently, one of my besties, he was like,
31:33
I can't talk to you.
31:34
You're too intense.
31:35
And I keep thinking, like, we need to
31:37
meet them where they are.
31:38
And that's what I'm trying to do.
31:39
What are some tips that you have done
31:43
with your family and friends who are not
31:44
vegan or vegetarian?
31:47
Now, those are all very important questions and
31:50
challenges many of us face as vegans.
31:53
So one of the things I do is
31:54
I take long walks and I try to
31:56
take deep breaths when I start getting upset
31:59
about the harm that human beings cause to
32:02
the earth and to other animals.
32:05
And when a loved one or somebody I
32:08
care about is participating in this, it can
32:12
sometimes be hard to know how best to
32:15
deal with it.
32:16
But I think at the bottom of all
32:18
of this is our ability and our desire
32:21
to empathise with others.
32:24
And when we talk about speaking to people
32:27
where they are on their own journeys, it
32:30
requires that we have empathy to understand where
32:34
they are on their own journeys and understand
32:37
why perhaps, for whatever reason that we don't
32:41
know, they're not able to make these choices
32:45
or not willing to consider these issues.
32:47
And I think one of the underpinning factors
32:49
is fear.
32:51
People are afraid.
32:52
They're afraid of change.
32:54
They're afraid that they're not going to get
32:55
the nutrients they need because they've been sort
32:58
of bombarded with messaging from the meat and
33:00
dairy industries.
33:01
They're afraid that they're not going to enjoy
33:03
the food.
33:04
So I think whatever we can do to
33:06
dispel some of those fears and to provide
33:09
support.
33:10
And sometimes this is as simple as bringing
33:13
a great vegan dish to their home or
33:15
to an event and showing them how tasty
33:18
vegan food can be.
33:19
That's one way to help assuage some of
33:22
those fears.
33:24
But it's a complicated issue.
33:26
And for us as activists, it's important to
33:31
recognise how our communication and how our approach
33:37
affects others and to try to communicate in
33:41
a way that's ultimately going to engage people
33:44
and interest them instead of turning them away.
33:47
And so, again, getting back to empathy, what
33:50
is important to this other person I'm speaking
33:53
with?
33:54
Are they worried about their health?
33:55
If so, as vegans, we have an awful
33:58
lot we can share with them that will
33:59
be helpful.
34:01
Are they concerned about the environment and what's
34:03
happening with the climate crisis?
34:05
Again, there's an awful lot we can share
34:07
with them that will be helpful and relevant
34:09
to them.
34:09
Do they care about animals and the suffering
34:11
animals experience?
34:13
Again, there's a lot we can share there.
34:15
So sharing relevant, useful information with others is,
34:21
I think, really important.
34:22
And sometimes it means that we have to
34:24
take a walk or take a deep breath
34:26
and understand, OK, what is it that is
34:29
important to this other person and do the
34:32
best we can to reach them in an
34:34
empathetic way that speaks to them where they
34:38
are.
34:39
And over the years, I've had some heated
34:42
conversations with family members and others.
34:45
And as time has gone, I still have
34:48
the same feelings that I've always had.
34:51
But I try to communicate in a way
34:53
that's going to be more engaging and is
34:56
going to open up opportunities to find common
34:59
ground.
35:00
And if we can find common ground, we
35:03
have an awful lot to build from.
35:05
So finding commonality instead of differences, I think,
35:09
really important.
35:11
Oh, wow.
35:11
That is so beautifully said.
35:13
Let's take a brief break and introduce you
35:16
to the platform you're watching on Shane TV.
35:18
So it's a vegan Netflix.
35:21
OK, that's the craziest thing I've ever heard.
35:23
I love Unchained TV.
35:25
Your life will change.
35:27
It's just that easy.
35:28
Unchained TV has all sorts of content for
35:31
everybody.
35:32
Unchained TV changed my life.
35:34
Unchained TV is crushing it.
35:37
I love Unchained TV.
35:39
Unchained TV is my go to.
35:41
Unchained TV.
35:42
Who knew?
35:43
Unchained, baby, yeah.
35:50
And just to remind you, we are talking
35:54
to Gene Bauer, the co-founder and president
35:58
of Farm Sanctuary.
36:01
And you're just looking at one of the
36:05
hundreds of rescue videos that they've put out
36:08
because they've done thousands of rescues.
36:10
So, Gene, I was hoping that you would
36:12
tell us a little bit about this rescue
36:15
of 10 cows and how Farm Sanctuary moved
36:20
into action when you found out there was
36:23
a farm in Vermont.
36:25
There were 10 cows left behind when the
36:28
farm was sold.
36:29
People were telling the woman who bought it,
36:31
go to send them to slaughter.
36:33
She didn't want to.
36:34
She called you and you moved these animals
36:37
out and saved their lives.
36:39
Tell us this one.
36:42
Yes, well, you know, we have a very
36:44
robust shelter operation.
36:47
We have transported animals across the country, which
36:50
is one of the things that we're able
36:51
to do when there are animals in need
36:53
in one area and then a home in
36:57
another area.
36:58
And as you alluded to, so often what
37:00
happens when it comes to farm animals is
37:04
they are not seen as living, feeling creatures.
37:07
They are seen as commodities, as saleable products.
37:12
And so when they're no longer profitable for
37:16
a farmer or whoever, they're oftentimes just taken
37:19
to slaughter, which is the routine.
37:22
And for Farm Sanctuary, these animals are not
37:25
just commodities.
37:26
They're sentient beings.
37:28
They're living, feeling individuals who deserve kindness.
37:31
And so in this case, it was wonderful
37:33
to bring them to the sanctuary from Vermont
37:35
to Alabama to enjoy a good life and
37:40
to be valued for the individuals they are
37:43
instead of being looked at only as commodities.
37:46
So that's fundamental to the message at Farm
37:48
Sanctuary and with our rescue work is that
37:51
these animals, their lives matter.
37:53
And we need to do everything we can
37:55
to help honour that, provide sanctuary and ultimately
37:59
in our big dream to replace slaughter with
38:03
sanctuary.
38:04
Well said.
38:05
I do have to be a little provocative
38:08
here because it's one thing to be patient
38:12
with people, but the clock is ticking.
38:15
Climate change is getting exponentially worse and we're
38:18
just in the appetiser section.
38:20
The main course hasn't hit us.
38:22
You have the news media that is completely
38:24
co-opted by the meat dairy pharmaceutical industry.
38:28
They basically, in my opinion, just play catastrophe
38:32
porn.
38:32
You know, people dying, houses going up in
38:35
flames, floods, fires.
38:37
But when there's a solution that is very
38:41
obvious, that is even in a paper of
38:43
note, I want to put this one up
38:47
for a second.
38:50
New York Times, save the planet, put down
38:52
that hamburger.
38:53
Researchers examined the diets of 55,500 people
38:56
and found that vegans are responsible for 75
39:00
percent less in greenhouse gases than meat eaters.
39:04
So it doesn't take a highly qualified mathematician
39:09
to realise, well, if everybody went plant based,
39:13
we could collectively reduce our greenhouse gas emissions
39:16
by 75 percent, thereby effectively solving the climate
39:20
crisis.
39:21
Nobody picked up on this story.
39:23
Not CNN, not MSNBC, not any of the
39:27
major networks.
39:28
So they are ignoring the solutions.
39:32
You have the accelerating problem of climate change.
39:36
And so where does patience factor in when
39:42
you're dealing with a ticking, essentially a ticking
39:46
time bomb?
39:47
No, it's a really important question, Jane.
39:49
And I'm completely with you in terms of
39:51
the urgency of this.
39:53
And I think we need to be very
39:55
explicit that animal agriculture is causing all of
39:58
these enormous, disastrous consequences.
40:02
And like you also said, mainstream media did
40:06
not pick this up.
40:07
And that's why I'm so glad about your
40:09
network here, where you are reaching people with
40:13
a message that needs to be heard.
40:16
And I think that this kind of media
40:18
programming needs to get out a hell of
40:21
a lot more than it is.
40:22
So please go to Unchained TV and encourage
40:25
other people to to support this.
40:27
But but I think that how do we
40:29
create change?
40:30
I think it's going to be a diverse,
40:31
diverse approaches.
40:32
And so Farm Sanctuary has one approach.
40:35
There are other organisations that might be doing
40:38
things a little bit more edgy and risky.
40:41
And I fully support that.
40:43
I think that we need this, that and
40:46
many other approaches to creating change.
40:48
We need to appeal to the widest audiences
40:51
possible, but really do need to impress upon
40:54
folks just how urgent these issues are.
40:57
And so you have individual animals whose lives
41:00
are horrible every day.
41:02
That's an urgent problem.
41:04
You have the climate crisis.
41:05
You have the loss of ecosystems.
41:07
You have wildlife that's that's that's suffering and
41:11
dying.
41:11
You have people who are eating food that's
41:14
making them sick.
41:15
You know, there are so many issues tied
41:17
into our food system and the way we
41:20
eat in this country.
41:22
And so in one sense, we have many
41:25
opportunities to reach wide audiences.
41:28
But I think there's different messages that will
41:30
appeal to different audiences and we just need
41:31
to put them all out there.
41:33
And but I hear you on the urgency
41:34
and and I just want to do whatever
41:39
I can to the best to the best
41:42
possible effect.
41:44
And I'm always willing to to learn and
41:46
make adjustments as I as I learn more.
41:49
But but I hear you.
41:50
This is an urgent situation and we need
41:52
all hands on deck.
41:54
And, you know, the bird flu is a
41:57
growing threat.
41:58
I just read an article in The New
41:59
York Times today that really outlined that it
42:03
has jumped to human beings and that basically
42:07
the essence of the article is that the
42:10
government isn't really responding to the potential of
42:14
crisis and that it could be growing sort
42:19
of amongst us without us even realising that
42:22
we just got through a pandemic.
42:24
And we know how horrific it is.
42:27
And it was zoonotic no matter what, where
42:30
you think it started in a lab or
42:31
at a wet market.
42:33
Animals were being exploited and it it doesn't
42:38
come out of thin air.
42:39
These are zoonotic problems.
42:41
And now we have yet another one on
42:43
the heels of the covid pandemic rising up
42:45
as a potential threat.
42:46
You'd think that would get the attention of
42:49
lawmakers.
42:50
But nevertheless, it seems like the lawmakers in
42:54
charge of the Farm Bill right now, which
42:56
is going to decide the government's position and
43:00
the amount of subsidies to animal agriculture for
43:04
five years going forward, that they are still
43:08
not getting the message.
43:09
They're still marching in lockstep like factory farming
43:12
is the best thing since sliced bread when
43:15
it's creating all these threats.
43:17
You're 100 percent right.
43:19
You know, bird flu has killed nearly 100
43:21
million birds in this country.
43:22
It's jumped from birds to cows and it's
43:25
jumped from cows now to people.
43:28
And, you know, it's really good that there
43:29
is some media coverage, but there needs to
43:31
be an awful lot more.
43:33
And I am happy to say that that
43:35
I was able to get three op eds
43:37
published working with my team here at Farm
43:38
Sanctuary, one on MSNBC, one in the San
43:41
Francisco Chronicle, one in the Des Moines Register,
43:45
all talking about bird flu and how when
43:48
we treat other animals badly like we do
43:51
in the food system, then there are these
43:53
greater threats of diseases jumping from other animals
43:57
to human beings.
43:59
But like you say, agribusiness is very linked
44:03
into government agencies and they do tend to
44:07
see things similarly and to defend the status
44:11
quo.
44:12
So we need to continue working to undo
44:14
the status quo, challenging irresponsible conduct in the
44:18
animal agriculture industry and also building alternatives.
44:22
And this is where some of this all
44:24
protein stuff, I think, could be very positive.
44:26
I think also more sustainable, regenerative plant-based
44:30
agriculture is critically important.
44:33
So if we can create access to land
44:36
for farmers who want to do plant-based
44:38
instead of exploiting animals, that is an important
44:41
way to shift resources out of animal agriculture
44:44
to plant-based agriculture.
44:45
And again, the subsidies from the USDA, unfortunately,
44:50
the vast majority go now to support the
44:53
factory farming industry.
44:54
But we can start shifting a million here,
44:57
five million there, and over time, incrementally, hopefully
45:00
build that up.
45:02
But we're going up against the system that's
45:04
very entrenched and it's going to take time.
45:09
It's going to take time.
45:10
So we'll work in Washington, we'll work at
45:12
state capitals.
45:13
But a lot of the real change actually
45:15
happens at the local level with people actually
45:19
growing food themselves.
45:20
There's a food not lawns movement where people
45:23
are actually starting to grow crops and vegetables
45:26
where they used to have a lawn.
45:28
And if you think about the resource of
45:30
land and lawns, we have more land in
45:34
lawns in this country than we use to
45:36
grow fruits and vegetables.
45:38
Now, that's kind of crazy.
45:39
If all those lawns were growing produce, we
45:43
would have an abundance in communities and areas
45:45
where we probably need a lot of healthy
45:48
plant based food and we could also create
45:51
jobs instead of a gardener basically pushing a
45:54
lawnmower and putting down fertiliser.
45:57
The gardener would actually be a gardener and
45:59
become a farmer.
46:00
And that's skilled labour that should be recognised
46:03
as well.
46:04
And then you have enough of these gardeners
46:06
growing food instead of lawns and communities.
46:09
Now you can have a local food hub
46:11
or a farmer's market and business opportunity.
46:13
So we have there are opportunities in front
46:16
of us, but a lot of this is
46:18
going to happen at the local level where
46:20
you just have resilience and creativity and innovation
46:24
and communities working together.
46:26
That that's the type of thing that gives
46:27
me a lot of hope.
46:29
Yeah.
46:29
And Jeff Bezos, one of the richest men
46:31
in the world, recently, I heard reportedly gave
46:34
one hundred million dollars to alternative protein development.
46:38
We know that Bill Gates said publicly he
46:41
was on CNN saying we have to transition
46:43
to synthetic meat.
46:45
Unfortunately, he was mocked right on camera, which
46:47
is disappointing.
46:48
But the point is that some of the
46:50
smartest, richest people in the world are starting
46:52
to realise what's obvious, that this system is
46:56
completely unsustainable.
46:57
The clock's ticking and we have to do
46:59
something soon.
47:00
I want to get back to your core
47:02
mission is to realise that these animals are
47:06
friends, not food.
47:07
Let's meet two pigs who were rescued by
47:11
Farm Sanctuary and learn a little bit about
47:14
their personalities.
47:15
In general, they're very, very similar to puppies.
47:19
Lizzie is definitely the more exuberant of the
47:23
pair, is very inquisitive, very curious, while Robbie
47:28
is definitely more laid back and calm.
47:31
Lizzie and Robbie were both originally rescued from
47:34
a cruelty case by the FLSPCA.
47:38
The animals there were malnourished.
47:41
They lacked basic shelter, food and water.
47:45
And as the FLSPCA did not have a
47:47
proper setup for long term pig care, they
47:51
came to us.
47:52
When they first came to the shelter, they
47:54
were both incredibly sweet and gentle, which most
47:59
likely comes from the fact that they'd only
48:01
really been around humans for most of their
48:03
life.
48:03
So they're very, very social, very sweet, love
48:07
nothing more than each other, never very far
48:10
away from one another.
48:13
As much as they love each other, they
48:15
also very much enjoy their fellow pig friends.
48:19
Often at night, they'll all be in a
48:21
big snuggle puddle together in the straw, which
48:23
is very sweet.
48:24
They also love interactions with their humans.
48:28
They love scratches and belly rubs and obviously
48:31
snacks.
48:32
Big fans of snacks.
48:34
And I want to say that that video
48:36
is streaming on Unchained TV.
48:38
We are very, very thrilled that Farm Sanctuary
48:43
was one of the first to say, oh,
48:45
you want to create a channel for us
48:46
on Unchained TV?
48:47
Absolutely.
48:48
And that's what I love about Farm Sanctuary.
48:50
Just absolutely generous on all fronts to share
48:54
the information so that we can all move
48:57
together.
48:58
So, Gene, clearly those pigs are actually smarter
49:02
than dogs.
49:03
Not that intelligence should be the criterion that
49:06
we use to decide whether or not to
49:08
torture a being.
49:09
But the point is that they are so
49:12
much like dogs and Americans love their dogs.
49:15
How do we bridge that gap?
49:18
Dogs, I think, sometimes are the gateway drug
49:20
to, and I use that as a humorous
49:24
term, the gateway to compassion to other animals.
49:28
No, I think it's true.
49:29
Many people who spend their lives with dogs
49:32
or with cats get to know them as
49:34
individuals with personalities who actually dream.
49:37
Right.
49:37
When our dogs or cats are sleeping, we
49:39
see their face twitching, their paws twitching.
49:42
They're dreaming.
49:43
You know, when you go into the pig
49:44
barn and the pigs are sleeping, they're also
49:47
dreaming and their faces are twitching and their
49:49
paws are moving.
49:50
So, you know, they're not that different.
49:53
And which animals we consider to be our
49:55
friends and which ones we consider to be
49:57
our food are really quite arbitrary.
50:00
Like in some countries, they don't eat cows,
50:03
for example.
50:04
And in other countries, they eat cats and
50:06
dogs.
50:06
And people in the U.S. are appalled
50:09
that other people in other countries would eat
50:12
cats and dogs.
50:13
But at the end of the day, these
50:14
are all living, feeling beings.
50:17
They all deserve to be treated with kindness.
50:20
And if we can live well without killing
50:22
other animals and without harming other animals, why
50:25
wouldn't we?
50:26
And that's really what the sanctuary is about.
50:28
It's just trying to demonstrate that these animals
50:31
share this earth with us.
50:33
They want to enjoy their time here like
50:35
we all do.
50:37
And it's also true that when we treat
50:39
other animals with kindness, it actually benefits our
50:42
own lives.
50:43
You know, being at a sanctuary is a
50:45
much more joyful, positive experience than visiting a
50:50
slaughterhouse.
50:51
You know, you go into these slaughterhouses or
50:53
these factory farms and the stress and the
50:56
fear and the pain is palpable.
50:59
And you come to a sanctuary and it's
51:01
really the opposite.
51:02
The sanctuary is a salve, an alternative to
51:06
this slaughter industry.
51:08
And I think most people would rather be
51:11
at a sanctuary than at a slaughterhouse.
51:13
Most people would rather eat food that is
51:16
nourishing instead of food that makes us sick,
51:19
like this standard American diet.
51:21
And most people would rather live on a
51:23
planet where we have clean air, clean water,
51:27
a healthy climate, healthy ecosystems.
51:29
And the solution to all of these issues
51:32
is to eat plants instead of animals.
51:36
I mean, that's the thing that, as we
51:39
only have a couple of minutes left, that
51:41
that makes me so perplexed and frankly, a
51:45
little bit, sometimes I'm not hopeful because the
51:50
answer is so obvious and otherwise brilliant people,
51:55
otherwise brilliant people can't see what's staring them
51:58
right in the face, is that there is
52:01
one behaviour that is causing a huge percentage
52:05
of the problems that's facing our world.
52:09
If you talk about human world hunger, well,
52:12
depending on how you calculate it, either a
52:15
huge or most of the food we're producing
52:17
is fed to the 80 billion plus land
52:20
animals that we're killing every year for food.
52:23
So if we directed the 85 percent of
52:26
soy that's fed to farmed animals and similar
52:28
amounts of corn and directed to starving people,
52:31
we could solve world hunger.
52:33
You know, you're talking about climate change.
52:36
We've already discussed just on the surface that
52:40
animal agriculture is a massive contributor to climate
52:43
change and is part of the solution with
52:45
rewilding, which would trees absorb carbon.
52:49
And, you know, you're talking about preventable lifestyle
52:52
diseases like heart disease and cancer.
52:54
Those are connected.
52:56
Processed meat is officially cancer causing.
52:59
Red meat is a likely carcinogen.
53:03
You know, you just want to pull your
53:06
hair out when people who understand the nuances
53:10
of things that are so complex that go
53:12
right over my head can't see that right
53:15
there is the solution staring us in the
53:18
face to most of our problems, not to
53:21
mention societal violence, because violence breeds violence.
53:24
And when we become callous to the violence
53:26
we inflict daily on animals, then we open
53:29
the door to violence against humans.
53:31
Your final thought.
53:32
We've got about a minute left.
53:34
I'm I'm 100 percent with you there, Jane.
53:37
It is perplexing.
53:38
And, you know, we are living in a
53:40
way that is bad for ourselves, bad for
53:42
other animals, bad for the planet.
53:45
It's violent, it's cruel and it's completely unnecessary
53:48
and it's totally irrational.
53:50
But human beings are not rational animals.
53:53
Unfortunately, we're very social animals.
53:55
We tend to do what those around us
53:57
do.
53:57
And sadly, we've seen what that's done over
54:00
history, the enormous social harms that certain groups
54:04
have perpetuated against other groups, whether human or
54:08
non-human.
54:08
That's happening now with animal agriculture.
54:11
And the good news is each of us
54:13
can make a difference by changing the way
54:15
we eat.
54:16
But also each of us can be ambassadors
54:18
for a way of living that is more
54:21
compassionate and ultimately more human and healthy and
54:25
more empathetic.
54:26
I think one of the worst problems with
54:28
animal agriculture, and you alluded to it, is
54:31
how violence creates violence.
54:32
When we treat those without power badly, that
54:37
callousness and that lack of empathy tends to
54:39
spread.
54:40
But on the other hand, kindness can also
54:42
become contagious and spread.
54:44
So that's the hope I hold on to.
54:46
Well, that's a great way to end this
54:47
broadcast.
54:48
I am so honoured that you took time
54:50
to speak to us.
54:52
You are our hero.
54:54
We love you.
54:55
And we do hope you come back soon
54:58
when we've achieved a plant-based world.
55:00
Thank you so much, everybody.
55:02
Come back next time here on Unchained TV.
55:04
This episode was brought to you by Unchained
55:07
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55:08
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55:11
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