Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / Peace Corps Murder - Kate Puzey

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Peace Corps Murder - Kate Puzey · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Kate was a person who saw the best in the world.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: She knew what humanity could be and was an advocate
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: to do better, to strive for more. Her passion in
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: everything she stood for, however, would ultimately lead to her
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: untimely and gruesome death, and the very organization that was
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: at fault turned their back on her family in the aftermath.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: This is the story of Peace Corps volunteer Kate Poosy.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: and Grim, a true crime podcasting.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: The following podcast and material in for a mature audience,
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: listener discretion is advised. Remember that time I said that
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: there's going to be a horrible transition into Patreon.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: Is this the time?
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: This is it? It's that we're just thanking patrons right now.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: So shout out to Courtney Wheeler, Brittany Olsen, Boblet, Brianna Seymour.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: I'm probably gonna get this one wrong. I'm gonna do
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: my best. Hellic, Nick tur and Kerry g Awesome. Thank
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: you very much. You guys get all that awesome behind
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: the scenes and everything.
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Like we honestly appreciate that so much.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: We do. You guys really are a big integral part
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: of keeping the show going. So thank you so much
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: for everything you do. It means a lot. Plus you
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: get to be awesome patrons. You get to be back
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: there amazing people. So yeah, yeah, how was that for
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: a horrible patreone?
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: It was unexpected, that was what I was.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: I was like, all right, cool, it was different. Well,
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: but it wasn't like smooth by any means. No, but
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: that's okay, That's what I was aiming for. Yeah, we
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: are officially five episodes away from Big two hundred. This
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: is episode one ninety five. Wow, how does that make
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: you feel old?
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: Old?
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: We've been going for a while, so.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like yeah, it makes me feel I don't know,
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: time just flyes so darn fast. I don't I don't
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: get it. I don't get it. Well, it does not
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: seem like we've put two hundred episodes.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: Out, No, And I mean we're gonna be pumping out
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: more now that we're starting to do Friday episodes. Because
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: like last week, minus the whole like server error with
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: our hosting platform, but we had two episodes out plus
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: the Patreon episodes, we had three episodes we actually released last.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: Week and this one we record what day is it today? Saturday?
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: I'm almost on holidays, so just don't mind me today
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: Nichole's and holiday moment already, I'm trying to be Yeah,
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: so it's Saturday, and this is the Tuesday episode.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we usually record on Monday, Monday night, right hours
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: before the episode's release. Yeah, but yeah, we had to
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: be above our normal schedule and be on the ball
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: this time.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: So yeah, and we should note that too because of
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: the whole thanking patrons. So you've kind of sign up
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: and you're thinking you'll be thanked. It will be next week.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: Yeh, next Tuesday, because Fridays we're not, but Tuesday as well.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: Yet you get it, you understand, okay, Kate poosy Okay,
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: are you ready for the story?
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: No? No, I feel like this story is going to
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: be terrible.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: It is. I mean, it's a true crime podcast, so
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: mostly we deal with terrible things. Unfortunately, you don't say.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: I feel like we've been on a bit of a
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: stint of doing some different type weird cases recently, and
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: this one definitely falls in that category. Again, It's yeah,
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: there's some different dynamics to it. We deal with the
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: Peace corpses I already kind of mentioned, which we'll talk
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: about what that is and how it was all involved
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: and everything, but it's different. Maybe maybe one day soon
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: we'll just get to the stereotypical serial killer and how
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: they get caught. But for now we're going a little
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: bit different.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: That's okay. I think that's great.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: Fair enough.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: You're doing a good job over there, Thank you.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: It means a lot.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just here for the ride until vacation. Well no,
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: I mean after vacation, I'm hoping I can get a
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: case out.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that would be nice.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: That would be really nice.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: That would be But for now we're going to talk
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: about Kate, so we digress back onto the case. Kate
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: Poosey was born on June nineteenth, nineteen eighty four, in Augsburg, Germany,
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: where both of her parents worked as teachers. Now, though
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: born in Germany, they would soon move when she was
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: only nine years old, and Kate spent her childhood from
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: then on in Okinawa, Japan. Now this is where she
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: continued to grow learn, you know, play as a kid
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: right all the way up until she graduated high school
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: and she left for college. Now, from a young age,
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: though Kate showed a blend of empathy, finess, and smarts,
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: and during her high school year she was actively involved
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: in advocating for various causes, showcasing her passion for making
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: a difference, and was elected even student body president twice.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: And she even graduate graduated as valedictorian in twenty wow
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: in two thousand and two.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: Right on, yeah, she sounds awesome. She is.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: She's got a good heart, she's smart, and she isn't
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: too much about herself. She's for others, other people for
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: the better right.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that sounds awesome.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And from there, Kate would then attend post secondary
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: in France, majoring in sociology with a minor in business Now.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: During these years, she also worked with underprivileged children, often
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: supporting guidance for those you know in need, right, doing
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: her volunteer work again doing what's best?
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no kidding.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: Those who knew Kate said she was known for her
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: radiant smile and positive attitude, and said that she always
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: left a lasting impact on everyone that she met with
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: a kind of person. With the kind of person that
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: Kate was, it's not surprising to hear that she aimed
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: to have a career in a nonprofit management position focusing
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: on international development and advocacy for women and children. More specifically,
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: everyone knew exactly what Kate was about who she was,
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: and they would use all these different words and terms
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: and descriptions and terminology that I've already thrown out there
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: in an attempt to capture who she was in a
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: summed up sentence. But Kate, for her, it was easy
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: to define who she was. She simply described herself as
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: an optimistic realist and was committed to making a positive
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: difference in the world day.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: I feel like if someone was like doing an intro
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: over me, I wouldn't be half that good. I know,
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: Like she just sounds fricking phenomenal.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: I know. And then from what everyone like the resume
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: she has on what kind of person she is and
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: how everyone can describe her in such a heart of
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: gold person, She's like, I'm just an optimistic realist.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: I feel like she's just like like light, just like light,
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: very like beautiful.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: Human pretty much.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: Now, after graduating, Kate continued to follow her heart of
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: Gold and volunteered with the International International Rescue Committee, which
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: is a global human humanitarian organization. I'm having troubles talking
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: tonight apparently, sorry, my apologies for that, and now this
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: organization provides emergency assistance and relief. As a result, Kate
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: would find herself traveling extensively to countries like England, in Indonesia, Italy, Ghana, Greece, Korea, Malaysia, Mexico, Morocco,
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: Hong Kong, Spain, and Thailand.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: That's a lot of places.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah. There upon, yeah, going to different countries, volunteering and everything.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: Within her life, she traveled to many different places. Her
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: talents for writing and photography that she developed from school
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: and in her travels helped her share her experiences with
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: friends and families, providing a window into her adventures and
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: the cultures that she encountered along the way. In two
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: thousand and seven, Kate expanded her dedication of doing good
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: and bettering the world by joining the Peace Corps. So
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: the Peace Corpse, if for anyone who doesn't know, is
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: a US government initiative established in March of nineteen sixty
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: one by President John F. Kennedy, and it aimed to
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: foster world peace or aims as I should say, because
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: it is still an organization today. Now they're objective, their
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: core objective included providing technical assistance to developing nations, promoting
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: a deeper understanding of American culture abroad, and enriching Americans
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: awareness of other cultures as well. So from outside of assistance,
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: it's a two way learning street, from culture to cultures.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: Volunteers worked in various sectors such as education, health, agriculture,
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: and by living and working within local communities, they share
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: American culture and values while immersing themselves in the customs
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: and traditions of the host country itself. So those volunteers
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: are actually going abroad to some of the countries that
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: you know that Kate actually traveled to, living in the
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: actual cultures the villages or wherever it might be, and
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: volunteering to maybe agriculture, hospitals or schools, and they're they're
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: immersing themselves in what these cultures are and then bringing
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: their knowledge from North America and you know, like, well,
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: this is how we teach North America and these are
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: some of the things on English skills or whatever they're teaching.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: I don't know, And they just bring these things over
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: and teach and share and then take back as well.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: That's like such a cool experience. Hey, Like I just
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: feel like, that's just an amazing life experience. Oh.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: I can't even imagine going it'd be so phenomenal.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: And it's sorry it's called Peace Corp.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Peace Corpse Corpse Corps.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: Now, the experience with the Peace Corps volunteer, though, does
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: not end with their actual service while they are abroad.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: Upon returning home home to North America, they bring back
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: their invaluable insights and experiences, of course, contributing to the
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: broader global awareness sort of thing, right, because it's not
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: just so much about them going out and doing good
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: in other countries. It's about like, hey, what can you
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: bring back to right, what can we learn from your experience?
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: Totally? Yeah.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: Now, since the Peace Corpse inception, over two hundred and
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: forty thousand individuals have volunteered, which is phenomenal.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really good. Wow.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: So this was the perfect thing for Kate to join.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: It made perfect sense, and it matched the whole sense
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: of what kind of person she was perfectly to a t.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. I was thinking that.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: To be honest, Well, I mean, why else would I
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: have just talked about it?
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: Just Hey, we're talking about Kate and then Peace Corps
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: but anyways, back to Kate.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: They do a line like that, it seemed like her
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: values the values of this corporation, like in.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: A line there is definitely a ven diagram here going
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: on with yeah for sure. Yeah. So when she did volunteer,
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: she was assigned to teach English in a rule village
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: of again probably going to pronounce this wrong bad deuish. Nope,
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: there's no in that. I don't know why I said that.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: Bad dewey, bad dewey. I don't know b A d
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: j o U d a e love.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: When you're not sure, you're just spelling it.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: Bad Joe day, bad Joe day.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: Anyways, it's in Benin, which is in West Africa.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: Okay, okay, okay.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: So the village itself can't pronounce my apologies, but it
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: is in Benin, West Africa, okay. Now. Benin is a
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: nation known for its rich history, including the powerful Kingdom
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: of Dahomi, which holds cultural diversity with you know, many
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: different ethnic groups and languages within the Benin country or yeah,
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean, right, Okay. Yeah, Sometimes it's
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: really hard to portray another country, another place, like I've
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: never visited.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, when when you're kind of just like learning
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: about the.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: Place exactly right. So, yeah, now, the country's economic economy
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: relies heavily on agriculture trade, particularly through the port of
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: Port con To know, despite the uh economic growth of
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: with this port, Beneen Face faces many challenges such as poverty,
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: infrastructure deficits, which is exactly why Peace Corps has taken
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: up in the area, right, So they're really trying to
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: see what they can do to, you know, help them develop,
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: help them grow specifically with you know, their their resources
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: available like in this port for example, their trade, their
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: their agriculture now. Kate, though served as volunteer over the
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: course of these two years that she was there, and
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: she built a strong relationship with the local community, particularly
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: focusing on the women and children. Kate's initiatives included creating
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: a girls club, organizing girls camps, teaching reproductive health, and
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: addressing issues of male oppression, which reflected her deep commitment
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: to advocating for women's rights. The Peace Corpse was everything
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: Kate had dreamed it. She was making a difference, She
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: was offering support and building a better world for people
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: who needed it. Each day she did her best and
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: it showed.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, that just sounds amazing, creates a girls club,
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: like are you kidding me? Wow?
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: However, like any group or organization in the world, there
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: are those within it who are corrupt, people who will
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: twist things in order to take advantage. Kate, Unfortunately, you
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: would find out that the Peace Corpse was not an
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: exception to this rule of thumb.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: Dang here, I was like, this is such a nice story,
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: and here we go just going downhill from here.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: I'm assuming yeah, you could say that. Unfortunately, Kate would
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: eventually discover that someone who was working for the Peace
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: Corps organization was assaulting young girls. So, through her interaction
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: with the local community and her students and being a
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: beloved community member, she developed very close relationship and ships
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: with these people, particularly the women and children with the
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: clubs and organizations she was running and developing. Right through
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: these relationships, she became aware of these incidents, and it
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: left Kate with no other decision. She had to report
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: what was happening to the organization.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: Kate, I'm confused, So someone like a volunteer was harassing
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: like say, people in this girls club, or like other volunteers, or.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: We're going to get we're getting into it. Yeah, I'm
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: literally about to just start describing on that, so don't worry.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: So on February ninth, two thousand and nine, Kate sent
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: an email to her Peace Corpse County director reporting allegations
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: of sexual misconduct by a local teacher named Constant Bio. Now. Constant,
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: who taught at Kate's school, was also regularly hired by
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: the Peace Corpse in Beneaen to facilitate volunteer training sessions.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: So it is a local of the area because everything
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: that's happening with them being in this other country, it's
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: not just all volunteers coming over, right, they also hire locals.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: They hire people and create this like I don't know station,
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: if you will, and volunteers come over and help, right.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah that sounds great.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, so Constant was the one that we're
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: talking about here, this local, Okay. So in her email,
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: Kate's detailed how Constant had been assaulting and raping young
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: girls in the village. She felt it was crucial for
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: the county director to be aware of this behavior, not
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: only for moral reasons of it needing to stop and
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: this vile action needing to be putting an end to it,
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: but she also had concerns that the association with the
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: Peace Corpse and this individual would damage the organization's reputation
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: within the community itself.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow, imagine finding out about that. Hey, yeah, that's disgusting.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think I'd be able to sit back
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: very very long, if at all. Yeah, speaking up. So,
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: while the email itself has not been least publicly, I
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: was able to find an excerpt from what she said.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: So here is a little bit of a clip of
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: how it reads, and it goes like this quote. Please
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: believe me, I'm not someone who likes to create problems,
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: but this has been weighing heavy on me. I've loved
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: my time as a volunteer, and it's important to me
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: that the Peace Corpse remain a respected organization in the
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: eyes of our host country. This man is not someone
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: I want representing Peace Corpse to the Benese community.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean it sounds like, yeah, like she really
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: just from that little blip of the letter or the
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: email that she put like a lot of thought into it.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: You know she did. She took this very seriously. Yeah,
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: you can tell thought about it every which angle possibly
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: and took it very not even just very seriously, but
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: very professionally as well, which props to her. I don't
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: know if I could have done that, I know I'd
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: have been like, get this piece of fucking shit out
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: of here.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: So yeah, because I feel like a lot of people,
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: you know, they would just like lose their shit and
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: could potentially go and approach this person, which could make
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: things a lot worse. Right, So she was definitely doing
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: the right thing.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So, with the new information at hand, the Peace
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: Corps organization had a problem that clearly needed to be
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: dealt with. So, due to the information that Kate had
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: provided to the county director about this individual in Benin,
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: Constant Bio was informed that he would no longer be
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: employed by the Peace Corps.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: Okay, so that was that.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: That was that. Now. I don't know how things operate
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: in this country in Benin, as I already mentioned, I've
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: never been there, so describing it was already a challenge.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: But this is an assumption of mine here that I have,
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: and I assume that in an un underdeveloped country like this,
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: I'm sure securing a job might be hard to come by,
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: and for the man that we're talking about, I'm sure
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: it could have been very devastating news that he had
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: just been fired from it.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: Right, that doesn't make sense.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's also very unfortunate. But at the time, the
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: Peace Corps volunteers had no whistleblower protection. Situations like this
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: were very rare, and they weren't. There weren't very many
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: protocols on how to deal with it, and so, according
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: to a report from the Peace Corps Office of Inspector General,
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: the information Kate shared was not kept confidentially.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: Oh you're kidding me.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: Which means it was well known within the Peace Corpse
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: that this man had had been fired, why he had
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: been fired, and more importantly, who relayed the information about
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: the actions that he was doing that got him fired
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: in the first place.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: That honestly just seems like common sense.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: So that you would keep that, one would think, why,
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: one would think.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: Okay, holy shit, that's kind of scary.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So Kate had even received a follow up call
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: from another Peace Corps employee regarding this matter and was
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: told that the information had become widely among the employees
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: of the Peace Corps office in Benin. One such employee, sorry,
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: one such employee who learned what happened was a man
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: by the name of Arlene Bio, also known as Jacques Bio,
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: who was an associate director of the Peace Corps in Benin,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: and as you've probably already guessed by the last name,
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: was the brother of Constant Bio, the individual who was fired.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: Oh shit, No, I actually forgot his last name, so
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: I didn't put that together.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: Oh okay, fair enough, I'm glad I told you.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: Okay, well, shit, shit shit.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: The Peace Corpse response to Kate's report was, of course fantastic.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: They eliminated the problem right then and there. They got
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: him out of the out of the situation, removing the
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: man from his employment. However, the mishandling of the information
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: proved to be a grave mistake, as the organization allegedly
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: even disclosed to Constant Bio himself that Kate had been
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: the one who reported the misconduct, directly compromising her safety
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: and exposing too, of course, potential retaliation.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: Okay, like, what the actual shit? This just seems okay
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: because it's not like she was reporting like something minor,
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: like this was a big fucking deal. That's like you
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: needed to be dealt with, like it needed to be
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: dealt with.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: Correct, I agree?
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: And so the fact that now she is in any
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: sort of weird position is just like not okay, I
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: just think that's terrible.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: I agree, there is one devil's advocate here. We are
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: talking about an underdeveloped country still, So these are employees
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: employed by the Peace Corps, so they are members of
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: the Peace Corps organization, but they are beneath the civilians.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: So we're not talking about like people who are in
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: skyscraper towers in downtown New York and Chicago who deal
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: with this sort of sensitive information all the time. I
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: guess I understand how without proper protocols, Yeah, they might
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: not understand that you should keep your mouth shut. Well, yeah, potentially.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: I don't know what was she supposed to do. Like,
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: it's not like she could just have had a blind,
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: blind eye to that.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: No, she couldn't, especially for a person like Kate. There's
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: no way she could have, especially when one of the
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: big things she was fighting for was for advocacy for
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: women and children.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so how everything played out. Just days after the
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: report was made, Kate Poosey was found dead. Gosh, her
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: lifeless body was discovered on the porch of her small
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: home and beneen her throat had been cut open ear
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: to ear.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: Holy shit, it was a brutal.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: End that sent shockwave to the Peace Corps community.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, that is just beyond fucked mm hmm, Like,
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: oh my gosh, I don't even know what to say.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: You're trying to do the right thing and that happens
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: to you. Oh man, Okay, that's terrifying.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: When their headquarters contacted Kate Poosey's parents to inform her
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: of in form them of her death, they refused to
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: provide any details or explanations on what happened. Lois and
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: Harry Poosey, her parents had to piece together the circumstances
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: surrounding Kate's death by reading her emails and speaking with
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: other volunteers. Wow, they had to dig in and investigate
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: what happened to themselves because the Peace Corpse they.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: Weren't taking any sort of responsibility.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: No, they were trying to sweep it under the rug.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but like someone who was amazing died, you can't
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: just sweep that under the fucking rug.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: Someone does. Yeah, it's your responsibility to look after these
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: individuals and under your care someone was hurt or died,
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: doesn't matter which one. And you have a responsibility towards that,
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: but they were trying to sweep it under the rug.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: You know. And this is this gosh, because Kate had
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: thought this through so much, right and I bet you
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: and this was the reason why she had to think
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: it through so so much.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: Oh definitely, oh man, because I guarantee you if she
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: was still in the USA, she wouldn't have had to
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: think twice. She would have just reported it then and
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: there because her nomine would have been kept.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh okay, that is just so fucking sad.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: Four months after Kate's murder, the Peace Corpse ceased. All
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: communications with the Poosy family cut ties completely.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: What the hell they're just it's just like their hand
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: going spiraling and handling this shit terribly.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: Authorities in Benin didn't take long to react to her
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: murder and soon made the arrest on Constant Bio as
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: well as his brother Jake's Bio, and a Nigerian man
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: from Kate's village in connection with the murder. These men
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: were held in prison for years without a proper trial occurring,
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: trapped in legal limbo sitting behind bars. It would be
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: eight years after Kate was murdered when the men finally
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: saw the inside of a courtroom in Beneen. Unfortunately, it
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: didn't play out as anyone would hope. The court acquitted
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: all four men because there was a fourth that was
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: arrested as well of killing her on February twenty fifth,
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, and were released as free men without any
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: criminal records from the incident.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: Gosh, why no evitt? Was there not enough evidence? Or
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: they are doing like time and what is that when
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: someone liked time served? Time served?
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: Well, there's a few reasons, like over time, a lot
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: of doubts in their involvement in Kate's murder did begin
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: to emerge, but it was not really like anything. Really,
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: It's like, eh, did they really maybe?
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: But most likely most likely.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: There was no one else and it's like they had
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: the motive and everything. But several factors were contributing to
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: their release. Lack of concrete evidence was a big one.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: Directly linking these guys to the crime was proven to
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: be really hard. I mean, we are talking about an
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: undeveloped country as well. Investigating is probably not the best there.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: The prosecution's case relied heavily on circumstantial evidence, since they
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: didn't have any actual concrete evidence and well the motive
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: as well to go along with it. Additionally, reports of
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: witness intimidation and fear allegedly affected the willingness of key
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: witnesses to testify against the accused in court. O dang
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: mishandling of evidence and potential corruption further complicated the case.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: Remember we are talking about an undeveloped.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I guess that. Yeah. I mean, it's good
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: that they serve some time. And the thing is too,
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: there's some like I do believe that they did it,
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: the brothers or whatever, Right, I don't know about the
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: other people, but like, oh my gosh, sorry, this is
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: just I'm so upset for Kate. I can't even fucking
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: think right now. But we have had cases sometimes where
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: like it is someone else, Right, we don't know everything
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: that went down there, that's true. There's a small chance
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: I guess that it could have been somebody else.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: That's true, Right, it could be I mean, she was
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: working with women and children in these close quarters. Maybe
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: there was something else going on that we're not Yeah,
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: maybe she did something she wasn't even aware of.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, so there is like the tiniest possibility that
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: maybe it wasn't them.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: I am ninety nine percent confident to say that it
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: was constant and.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, me too, But I mean, like you need evidence, right.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: You do. So. The acquittal of these four guys, these
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: individuals in connection with her murder, was of course met
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: with the frustration and disappointment from Kate's family and supporters.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: They wanted justice for her death, and the verdict was
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: a significant blow to their hopes for closure and accountability now.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: The Peace Corpse is a government agency tasked with ensuring
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: the safety and well being of the volunteers, and they failed.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: They failed Kate's they failed her family, and they failed
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: the women who were assaulted as well. Kate's family and
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: many others have questioned why the Peace Corps did not
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: provide the necessary protection and support she needed, and why
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: her identity was revealed to the very person she was reporting.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: The Poosy family, in response to the tragedy that they
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: had faced, took action and created a project called Kate's Voice.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: The initiative aimed to raise awareness about Kate's murder and
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: press for the necessary reform within the Peace Corpse. Lois Poosey,
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: Kate's mother, expressed her resolve in an offen David sent
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: to Congress, stating quote, after so much heavy grieving and
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: feeling betrayed, we finally decided to stop being victimized, hoping
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: in vain for support from the Peace Corpse. As a family,
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: we developed an action plan to discover what really happened
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: to Kate and assure that justice was done on her behalf.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: Kate's Voice sought to advocate for whistleblow or protection for volunteers,
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: higher quality standards in Peace Corps management, and better support
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: for volunteer victims and their families. As a Poosy family
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: was building this report, another advocacy group known as the
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: First Response Action was also being organized by Return Peace
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: Corps Volunteer Now. First Response Action focused on demanding a
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: stronger response from Peace Corps for volunteers who were victims
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: of physical or sexual violence as well. One of the founders,
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: Casey Frazzi, shared her personal experience quote, I was a
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: Peace Corps volunteer in South Africa in two thousand and
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: nine and I was unfortunately assaulted. While I was serving
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: as a volunteer, I found that there were many other
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: people who'd been raped or assaulted and weren't getting the
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: services they needed. At the time that I was assaulted,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: there was no policy for how Peace Corps should respond
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: to survivors of sexual violence and uphelic. We were just
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: too far along in recorded history to not have policies
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: like that. Both Kate's voice and first response action highlighted
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: the significant need for reform within the Peace Corps to
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: protect volunteers and provide adequate support for those who experienced violence,
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: aiming to ensure that future volunteers would not face the
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: same tragic circumstances as Casey or as Kate. In response
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: to the tragic murder of Kate Poosey, the US Congress
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: also made a move and passed the Kate Poosey Peace
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Corpse Volunteer Protection Act of two thousand eleven, which was
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: signed into law by President or Barack Obama himself on
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: November twenty one, twenty eleven. And I do want to say,
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: there's also even a photo out there of President Barack
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: Obama standing next to Kate's brother and he's he's holding
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: a picture of Kate and he's just staring at the
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: picture he's holding in his hand.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: Dang. Well, you often say like these like rules or
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: policies and stuff or what is.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: Written in blood.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to say signed in blood, but yeah.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: They're written in blood because it takes someone to get
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: seriously injured or killed for someone to say, hey, wait,
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: we should probably do something about that.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, honestly, just like listening to this, it seemed
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm hoping it's gotten much better, but it's
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: almost like disorganized in a way that they're you know,
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: sending volunteers and stuff and to places and not really
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: knowing what they're fully getting themselves into.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, it's it comes down to it's a safety
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: issue you do have. And I understand this might be
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: a controversial thing for me to say, but you have
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: white women going to underdeveloped countries where maybe the main
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: population there is their colored skin individuals. I think a
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: white woman from a first world country going into these
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: areas is probably going to be like a target for
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: assault or rape. And it's terrible to think that, Yeah,
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: but I think that might be a case. So yeah,
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: you have to look at their safety. How are you
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: going to go along protecting these individuals. Whether it is
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: white women, white man, color doesn't matter whoever it is.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: You have to look at their safety and how you
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: can protect them. You're responsible, you're sending them there.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's just in well, gosh, maybe it's not
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: intro like I feel at that time. They I mean,
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: I think you even said it, it's surprising that they
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: didn't have more in place, But every year we come
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: like further and further with this kind of stuff, Right,
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: that's true. So it just seems like for twenty eleven
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: and stuff, that they should have already had something like this.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: Well that's exactly what Casey Frazzi was saying. To go
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: back to her to quote, it felt like we were
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: just too far along in recorded history to not have
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: policies like that.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, this legislation that was signed by President of
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: Barack Obama KATEE. Poosey Peace Corps Volunteer Protection Act was
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: designed to enhance the safety and security of Peace Corps volunteers,
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: particularly those reporting misconduct or facing threats, and to ensure
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: the organization provided better support and protection. One of the
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: key provisions of this act was to was the establishments
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: of the Office of Victim Advocacy within the Peace Corps itself.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: The office is dedicated to supporting volunteers who are victims
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: of crimes, providing them with essential emotional, medical, and legal assistance.
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: To address the issue of a whistle flower protection, the
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: Act implemented stricter confidentiality protocols, basically meaning their names will
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: not be leaked. The Act also mandated improved training programs,
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: both for volunteers and staff, focusing on sexual assault awareness,
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: risk reduction, and response strategies. This includes bystander intervention training
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: and clear reporting procedures. Additionally, to ensure accountability, the Peace
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: Corpse is required to provide annual reports directly to Congress,
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: detailing the number of crimes reported by volunteers, the agency's response,
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: and the measures taken to improve volunteer safety. Wow, annual reports.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: Okay, they're holding them accountable, big they are.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: Although Kate's life was tragically cut short, her legacy lives
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: on through this legislation, which strives to create a safer,
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: more supportive environment for Peace Corps volunteers. The change is
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: brought on by the Act directly reflect the values Kate
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: stood for during her life. Even in death, Kate is
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: contributing to a more secure and peaceful world.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh shit, that totally is.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: That's the story of Kate Poosey.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: Huh wow. I'm okay, Like this is good because at
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: one point I was like, holy shit, like no one's
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: going to ever volunteer for this organization ever again after
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: hearing this, this is going real downhill. But it does
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: sound like they're you know, kind of kind of learning
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: from some big mistakes.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: Definitely so. And honestly though, like I don't want to
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: speak bad on the Peace Corpse because I do think
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: that they do phenomenal things. Well, yeah, they're an incredible organization,
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: But I do think if it weren't for Kate's family
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: actually going above their heads and like going to Congress
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: and like fighting for this act that they were going for,
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: I don't I think that the piece scarps would have
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: just swept it under the rug. I really do.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I honestly feel terrible for Kate's family, like they
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: lost their child, but then to also, I don't know,
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: to just be like, you know, swept under the rug
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: like that too. I know, it's just like a double
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: whammy of heartache.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: Really, thankfully it wasn't. Thankfully it was actually being able
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: to get brought to the fore. Yeah, and I do
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: think that's thankfully to her family for doing well.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: Clearly her family is probably just as awesome as Kate is.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: Right or was now, I do want to add one
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: more little thing. I do think Kate would be okay
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: with how things ended up. I mean, no one, of
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: course wants to lose their life. But I think if
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: Kate knew this act that was implemented and how many
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: people she's probably helping with her incident, I do think
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: if there was an afterlife, I think she's probably looking down,
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: probably happy with what happened.
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: I don't think she's of course happy with being attacked,
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: but I do think she's happy with the aftermath.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah something. I mean, it's always like you can
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: just hope that something good will come out of terrible situations, right,
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: and in this situation it kind of did.
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: Ye. Still, it's been a while, but I officially want
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: to name Kate our Badass of the Day. Yeah, one
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: hundred and ten.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we haven't named one forever, Hey, I haven't, huh.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: It kind of caught me when I was writing this
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: earlier that was like, we we haven't done that for
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: a while. Kate someone who definitely deserves that title. She
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: is our Badass of the Day. For sure.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and she was born and was it ninety
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: four or something? I think you said.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: No, she was eighty four, eighty four June nineteenth, nineteen
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: eighty four.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: Still like just so taken way too goddamn young yeap.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: So yeah, well, I hope you enjoy your vacation. Now
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: you have an eight hour drive ahead of you tomorrow morning.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: Hopefully you're not just thinking of this.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: I know it's you know, it's so interesting because before
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: when I would take road trips, like I would always
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: listen to true crime, like true crime podcast, like the
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: Whole Way, right, and then I would get to my
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: destination just be fucked because it's like so long to
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: be listening to the ship right. Well like not that
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: like that's bad, but just like terrible stories of people
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: being like variable and and anyway, And I don't know.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: Now I just usually listen to audio books. It's changed,
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: like I've changed a little bit.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, instead, you just.
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: Because we're like researching and I hear them more on
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: a daily basis.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: Well, whoa whoa, whoa whoa who's researching here?
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: Well? I said we because I occasionally.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: Do you need to get back onto it and give
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: us an episode here coming up.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: I know, I know.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: Okay, can you throw down the gauntlet and say before
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: episode two hundred do you think you can do that?
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: I'll let you know.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: Okay, how's this episode? Episode two oh one? Nicole's got it?
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: That's one you two and yeah?
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: Okay, so what is if I have one before? I
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: just don't have to worry about until two o one,
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: I guess. So okay, well we'll see I do like, no.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: I'm calling you out two hundred and what that's your
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: doing that episode?
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: Okay, it's funny. I do have actually quite a few
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: cases picked that I want to research. It's just I mean,
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: June was absolutely insane for photography.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: Well, I have a book that I've been reading for
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: a few weeks. I haven't picked it up for a
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: little while.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I forgot about that.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: It's a tough read because the story is very heavy hearted.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: I'll let you guys know right now. It's a story
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: of j C. Dugard. So I'm doing a deep dive
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: into her case. And yeah, so that one hopefully will
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: be coming out before we reach episode two hundred. I'm
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: really taking my time with it. I want to do
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: that one.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's one you got to take your time on
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: for sure. I also just have to say stop throwing
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: me under the bus here.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: Well maybe you should say about with episode.
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: This isn't my full this is your full time job, dude.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: To sha, I have another full time job to shae.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: But you still need to do an I know, you gotta.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: You gotta treat everyone.
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: I know I should do one like once a month.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: That's not it's unrealistic.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: No, it's not. You were doing it once every other
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: week before.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, holy shit, yeah.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: Just yeah, holy shit. Yeah that's it.
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, no, for sure.
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: But it's just like I don't know where the time goes.
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: There's never enough time. I need a clone.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: Touche toche. Well, thank you guys for being here. Hopefully
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: you guys enjoyed this one. Maybe just in Hoary Kate,
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: just see if you can do a little bit good
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: out there in the next few days, you know, just
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: make the word a little bit of a better place,
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: you know, Pick a piece of litter, give someone a compliment,
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: something small. Doesn't have to be anything crazy.
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: I know. I mean, Lord knows that it's needed.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: That's that's yeah, that's the truth right there. Yeah, if
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: you guys want to check out all their links, then
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: the description of this podcast, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, all that
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: good stuff. You can get tickets to our two hundredth
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: live event if you're local because it is a local event.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: If you want to join up for our Patreon, we
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: will be striking our streaming it there as well. Yeah,
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: give us a review if you enjoy the show. We
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: appreciate you guys being here, especially if you are still
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: here after the episode's already done. We've been rambling. You
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: guys mean a lot to us. It means the world
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: because we are an indie podcast. It's just us. This
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: is it. There's no manager, no management team, no nothing.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: It's us in our tiny home with our pets.
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: Just killing it over here, you know. Okay, And so
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: next time I'm stay wicked.