Latest / De Leeslampjes / Deborah van Ginneken - De demensiepuzzel- #fantasy

Transcript

Deborah van Ginneken - De demensiepuzzel- #fantasy · De Leeslampjes

0:02
Speaker 1: Hello, dear book lovers.
0:04
Speaker 2: I'm Arno Olieslagers, and I think that our Dutch-speaking authors
0:08
Speaker 2: are getting too little attention. Their exciting, touching and sometimes
0:12
Speaker 2: life-changing stories earn more. That's why I let every episode
0:18
Speaker 2: shine the light on another author, because no one likes
0:21
Speaker 2: to be in the dark, we all know that in
0:22
Speaker 2: the meantime. In this episode, we go on an expedition
0:27
Speaker 2: in the world of Deborah van Ginnek, In her dimension puzzle,
0:31
Speaker 2: two parts appeared, the academy and the selection.
0:35
Speaker 1: Welcome to De Leeslanders. Deborah, maybe you can start by
0:38
Speaker 1: telling us briefly what it's about, what your series is about.
0:43
Speaker 2: Yes, so the first book is about a group of
0:45
Speaker 2: young people who are brought to an academy and who
0:48
Speaker 2: are trained somewhere.
0:50
Speaker 3: But they don't know what for. And then they go
0:57
Speaker 3: in search of the truth, some nice secrets, while there
0:59
Speaker 3: is a lot at stake. And book two is the
1:02
Speaker 3: sequel to that, and then it goes on in the series.
1:05
Speaker 2: I also always ask my guests which book they have
1:07
Speaker 2: read in their youth or later that has stayed with
1:10
Speaker 2: them and that has given them the desire or the
1:12
Speaker 2: idea to write this book.
1:17
Speaker 3: Yes, it's not that I really read something that I thought, wow,
1:20
Speaker 3: this is so inspiring that I want to become a writer.
1:25
Speaker 3: I just always like to write stories and I just
1:28
Speaker 3: kept doing that from my.
1:29
Speaker 4: Youth until now.
1:30
Speaker 3: But what I could really enjoy in the past was
1:34
Speaker 3: just the Harry Potter series, because I find the language
1:37
Speaker 3: and how it's all worked out very impressive, how she
1:42
Speaker 3: actually created that world, but also how that has so
1:45
Speaker 3: many different parts and still connects so well. So I
1:48
Speaker 3: find that very impressive.
1:50
Speaker 1: That's something that comes back often.
1:51
Speaker 2: There are several people, especially of our age, I think,
1:54
Speaker 2: who have all read that. So building up such a
1:56
Speaker 2: whole world, that's something you've also done, of course, with
1:58
Speaker 2: your books.
1:59
Speaker 1: That's not easy, I think. How do you start something
2:01
Speaker 1: like that?
2:01
Speaker 4: Yes. So I started a bit the other way around.
2:11
Speaker 3: I didn't start with, okay, I want to build a
2:13
Speaker 3: world first and then get a story in it. I
2:16
Speaker 3: actually started with the characters. I had a lot of
2:18
Speaker 3: nice characters in my head that I actually wanted to
2:21
Speaker 3: give a nice adventure. And after that I started to
2:25
Speaker 3: think about, okay, those characters, what stories do they want
2:27
Speaker 3: to tell? And in which world does that play out?
2:29
Speaker 3: So I actually started working a bit the other way around.
2:34
Speaker 4: And I'm kind of lucky.
2:36
Speaker 3: The world they end up in is very similar to
2:40
Speaker 3: our world.
2:41
Speaker 4: Why? Because I also... You have high fantasy, where there
2:45
Speaker 4: is a.
2:46
Speaker 3: Huge difference between the world we live in. But I
2:49
Speaker 3: also wanted to keep the entry into the fantasy genre
2:52
Speaker 3: a bit low, so that people can get used to, okay,
2:55
Speaker 3: we're in a different.
2:56
Speaker 4: World, but it might not be that different.
2:59
Speaker 3: Throughout the series, there will be other worlds where there
3:01
Speaker 3: might be a bigger difference, but then the entry into
3:04
Speaker 3: another world is.
3:04
Speaker 4: A bit smaller.
3:06
Speaker 3: So, in itself, the construction of that world is not
3:10
Speaker 3: a problem, because they spend a lot of time in
3:12
Speaker 3: the academy itself. So, yes, the academy is exhausted, but
3:17
Speaker 3: the world itself, there are still some questions about it
3:20
Speaker 3: in the first book, and I think that's nice.
3:23
Speaker 2: Yes, because we're playing off far into the future, after
3:27
Speaker 2: several world wars that have happened.
3:30
Speaker 1: Yes, that's right. In the year, what was it, 2800
3:33
Speaker 1: or something, are we?
3:33
Speaker 4: It will be something like that.
3:36
Speaker 1: Yes.
3:36
Speaker 4: What is in the future, indeed.
3:37
Speaker 1: What is in the future.
3:38
Speaker 2: What struck me was that they were still talking about laptops,
3:43
Speaker 2: about books. And I thought, oh yes, would that, well,
3:46
Speaker 2: you start thinking about it yourself, would that still be
3:47
Speaker 2: there and so on. Are those things that you deliberately
3:52
Speaker 2: left behind?
3:52
Speaker 4: I thought there had to be a certain degree of recognisability.
3:54
Speaker 1: Yes, that's what I want to say.
3:56
Speaker 4: So yes, that was deliberately somewhere.
3:59
Speaker 3: At the same time, I didn't think about every detail,
4:02
Speaker 3: how it would look, but it just plays out in
4:03
Speaker 3: the future. But they actually go to a different world,
4:07
Speaker 3: to a different dimension. And they have to rebuild everything there.
4:12
Speaker 3: So you can say, in the future, the technology will
4:15
Speaker 3: be much more advanced. But because they go to a
4:18
Speaker 3: different world where they have to rebuild things, they jump
4:20
Speaker 3: back a little bit in what they can. So I thought, okay,
4:25
Speaker 3: so far in the future, a little bit back, then
4:27
Speaker 3: it might be roughly where we are now. So I
4:28
Speaker 3: thought that was logical somewhere.
4:32
Speaker 1: Sounds logical. Yes, yes, yes. It's not that it's illogical,
4:34
Speaker 1: but it's something that stands out. Yes, that's right.
4:37
Speaker 3: Yes, yes.
4:38
Speaker 2: There are a lot of characters and they all have
4:41
Speaker 2: an international name. Did you also use English names? I
4:44
Speaker 2: can think of a theory, but I really like English names.
4:47
Speaker 1: So I just liked to.
4:47
Speaker 4: Use them in that way. Sometimes I had a character
4:50
Speaker 4: with a.
4:50
Speaker 1: Flemish name and I consciously changed that.
5:02
Speaker 4: I thought that was a bit crazy. But I'm a
5:05
Speaker 4: fan of English names.
5:06
Speaker 2: Who knows, in so many years, that might be possible.
5:09
Speaker 2: Then the Flemish names might have disappeared.
5:12
Speaker 1: Yes, hopefully not.
5:14
Speaker 2: No, but it could be possible. It takes place very
5:19
Speaker 2: far in the future. And you're going to write different
5:24
Speaker 2: parts about it. Do you already have an end? Have
5:28
Speaker 2: you already thought out the whole line?
5:30
Speaker 4: The red line is there. But does that mean that
5:35
Speaker 4: every detail is there? No, absolutely not.
5:37
Speaker 3: There is still room to let go of my creativity
5:39
Speaker 3: a bit. But the red line has been laid out.
5:42
Speaker 4: I know where I want to go.
5:43
Speaker 3: I know roughly how I will get there and the
5:47
Speaker 3: rest will be felt over time.
5:49
Speaker 1: And how many parts are we talking about? I can't
5:53
Speaker 1: officially tell you that yet.
5:54
Speaker 4: No, it's still a bit of a surprise at the moment.
5:58
Speaker 3: But it's not a trilogy, it's going to be more
6:02
Speaker 3: than three.
6:03
Speaker 1: I can say that.
6:04
Speaker 4: So you.
6:06
Speaker 2: Started writing it down and then your first manuscript was
6:11
Speaker 2: ready and you thought, I have to look for an excerpt.
6:13
Speaker 2: How did that go?
6:16
Speaker 3: Yes, the first one was finished and I went on
6:19
Speaker 3: to the second one. The third one was already written
6:21
Speaker 3: for the second half, so after the first one I
6:23
Speaker 3: didn't think I was going to publishing houses. It started
6:27
Speaker 3: as a hobby and I didn't expect it to be published.
6:30
Speaker 3: That wasn't my goal, I just liked writing. But after
6:32
Speaker 3: the second half I contacted publishing houses. Yes, I think
6:45
Speaker 3: that's a bit like many authors experience, in that you
6:47
Speaker 3: just write down a whole number. You get a lot
6:49
Speaker 3: of no's, but sometimes there's also a yes in between.
6:51
Speaker 3: And then, yes, that's very nice when there's a free-for-all
6:55
Speaker 3: behind it and you can go into the sea together.
6:58
Speaker 1: And that's Phoenix Books then? Yes, that's right.
7:00
Speaker 4: Free-for-all Phoenix Books.
7:01
Speaker 3: Yes, yes.
7:01
Speaker 1: Very satisfied with it.
7:03
Speaker 3: Yes, very.
7:03
Speaker 4: A very nice collaboration.
7:06
Speaker 3: They give enough freedom, but you also notice that they
7:08
Speaker 3: really think along.
7:09
Speaker 4: And yes, I can recommend it to everyone.
7:13
Speaker 2: Okay, because they are a regular publishing house.
7:17
Speaker 4: A traditional one.
7:18
Speaker 2: Yes, a traditional publishing house. What struck me, or why
7:23
Speaker 2: I actually thought, oh Deborah, I might have to ask
7:25
Speaker 2: for the podcast, was that I had seen you somewhere
7:28
Speaker 2: on a bookstore and I found your cover so great,
7:31
Speaker 2: professional and beautiful.
7:34
Speaker 1: Thank you. Did the people from the publishing house make it?
7:37
Speaker 3: Yes. It is of course a collaboration with the library,
7:41
Speaker 3: but it is actually made by an illustrator that I know. Actually,
7:47
Speaker 3: we worked together as a teacher, but Cleven then decided
7:53
Speaker 3: that they were actually going to do something different. And
7:56
Speaker 3: I eventually did too, but we still had contact. And yes,
8:00
Speaker 3: I was looking for someone who wanted to turn the
8:03
Speaker 3: idea in my head into the effective cover, and I
8:06
Speaker 3: think she did that very well. She designed the second one,
8:09
Speaker 3: and it's a very nice collaboration.
8:13
Speaker 1: To do with her. Martin Voortmans.
8:14
Speaker 2: Martin Voortmans. Yes, because they look alike. Yes, I thought
8:19
Speaker 2: that was very important.
8:20
Speaker 1: They form a beautiful whole.
8:21
Speaker 4: Yes, I really thought.
8:22
Speaker 1: That was well done. Yes, I'm very satisfied with it myself. Yes,
8:31
Speaker 1: I liked it.
8:32
Speaker 2: I think you also appeal to people because it's such
8:37
Speaker 2: a beautiful cover.
8:39
Speaker 4: The cover is many.
8:40
Speaker 1: Yes, indeed.
8:42
Speaker 2: Writers often put a part of themselves in the book.
8:46
Speaker 2: They try to put their own ideals in it, or
8:49
Speaker 2: the themes they're working on.
8:51
Speaker 1: Have you tried that? Probably yes.
8:53
Speaker 3: Yes, I think it's impossible as an author not to
8:55
Speaker 3: put a part of yourself in a book. For me,
8:59
Speaker 3: it's mostly themes that are in it. Friendship and self-sacrifice,
9:04
Speaker 3: but also ethical dilemmas. The book is about what you
9:07
Speaker 3: would do if this or that happened. The characters are
9:10
Speaker 3: constantly under a certain pressure. And those are things I
9:13
Speaker 3: like to think about, that I like to be involved in.
9:15
Speaker 3: So in that way, there is a big part of
9:17
Speaker 3: myself in the book. But it's not that the choices
9:23
Speaker 3: the characters make are necessarily the things I would also choose,
9:26
Speaker 3: or their opinions that that is necessarily my opinion. But
9:30
Speaker 3: I think the themes in the book, that that certainly
9:32
Speaker 3: applies to who I am.
9:35
Speaker 1: But they're all younger, they're in a kind of school,
9:38
Speaker 1: I'll say. You said you were a teacher. Yes, that's right.
9:41
Speaker 2: So did you take things from the classroom with you?
9:46
Speaker 1: To process those characters.
9:48
Speaker 3: Yes, so it's not that I really took situations with
9:51
Speaker 3: me or that I said, oh, they have a fight,
9:53
Speaker 3: I can process that in the book or something.
9:55
Speaker 4: But I think, as a teacher, you can see very
9:57
Speaker 4: well how teenagers are in each other.
10:00
Speaker 3: And they are very, yes, sometimes they are very tame,
10:05
Speaker 3: but they are also very passionate about the things they
10:07
Speaker 3: are surrounded by. Whether it's black or white, they can
10:10
Speaker 3: be very wispy, but also very much go for things
10:13
Speaker 3: they are after. And I think that's what the characters
10:17
Speaker 3: in the book definitely have. They sometimes make crazy decisions
10:20
Speaker 3: and very impulsive decisions. But I also think it's very
10:24
Speaker 3: nice that the young people can go for what they
10:27
Speaker 3: believe in, what they stand for. So in that way,
10:30
Speaker 3: I've seen that with my students and that also translates
10:32
Speaker 3: into that book.
10:34
Speaker 2: So it's not that someone should be scared that they
10:36
Speaker 2: will recognize themselves?
10:38
Speaker 3: I don't think so. I think friends and next to
10:40
Speaker 3: the family, there is a bigger chance. Because you always
10:44
Speaker 3: get inspiration from the people.
10:46
Speaker 4: You like, the people in your environment. But I don't
10:50
Speaker 4: think that students are.
10:52
Speaker 1: Scared of that. You still teach?
10:54
Speaker 3: No, I switched careers. I went from teacher-student to librarian. So, yes,
11:02
Speaker 3: a big step forward, but I'm very happy with it.
11:04
Speaker 1: Here in Genk, maybe?
11:05
Speaker 4: No, in As.
11:07
Speaker 1: In As? Ah yes, okay. Yes. Yes. Yes.
11:09
Speaker 3: Yes.
11:10
Speaker 4: Yes.
11:10
Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. Yes.
11:11
Speaker 2: Yes.
11:11
Speaker 1: Yes.
11:11
Speaker 2: Yes.
11:12
Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
11:14
Speaker 3: Yes.
11:15
Speaker 2: Yes. Yes. Yes.
11:15
Speaker 4: Yes.
11:15
Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
11:16
Speaker 3: Yes.
11:16
Speaker 2: Yes.
11:16
Speaker 3: Yes.
11:16
Speaker 1: Yes.
11:17
Speaker 4: Yes.
11:17
Speaker 3: Yes. Yes. Yes.
11:18
Speaker 1: Yes. Yes.
11:27
Speaker 4: Yes, that's right.
11:29
Speaker 3: And I don't know if the fascination with science directly
11:32
Speaker 3: has to do with it.
11:33
Speaker 4: I thought more about the worldbuilding aspect.
11:35
Speaker 3: You're in a different world, but it looks a lot
11:38
Speaker 3: like ours, as I just said. And they're in an academy,
11:41
Speaker 3: so you can't really see much of the world, because
11:44
Speaker 3: they're mostly there. So how can I make it clear
11:48
Speaker 3: to the readers that they're somewhere else? How can I
11:50
Speaker 3: take them with me in that other world? And then
11:52
Speaker 3: I thought, a different time calculation is perhaps.
11:55
Speaker 4: A very nice detail that.
11:58
Speaker 3: that doesn't necessarily cause trouble for the story, but that
12:00
Speaker 3: takes the readers along.
12:03
Speaker 4: In the other dimension.
12:05
Speaker 2: Did you have to think about that for a long time?
12:07
Speaker 2: Because it's really ingenious in each other. Because it also
12:10
Speaker 2: has to do with the earth, which is going to
12:12
Speaker 2: turn slower at some point.
12:15
Speaker 3: Yes, it was a bit of thinking and counting work.
12:20
Speaker 3: I've been looking at calculations here, how I could work
12:22
Speaker 3: it out. It was especially confusing for myself. I just
12:26
Speaker 3: hope that the readers read a bit over it. It's
12:29
Speaker 3: not the intention to count it all out and so on.
12:31
Speaker 3: It's just to take them into the atmosphere.
12:34
Speaker 2: Sometimes I went back to see what a month was,
12:36
Speaker 2: but it's also nicely.
12:37
Speaker 1: Explained in the beginning of the book.
12:39
Speaker 4: There's a little table.
12:40
Speaker 1: Yes, there's a little table. That's what the faculty of
12:43
Speaker 1: Science likes, little tables.
12:44
Speaker 3: I didn't even put it in there, it was the
12:47
Speaker 3: publisher who said, just put a little table there so
12:49
Speaker 3: people can look. And I thought that was a good idea,
12:54
Speaker 3: but at the same time I sometimes notice that people
12:56
Speaker 3: think through that table, oh, now I have to pronounce
12:59
Speaker 3: it here, while it is actually just meant to see,
13:00
Speaker 3: oh yes, that term comes together with that, and not necessarily, yes,
13:04
Speaker 3: how many hours are that now, or how many minutes?
13:06
Speaker 2: No, no, no.
13:07
Speaker 4: And some go very far in that I think, oeh.
13:09
Speaker 3: That might be a bit annoying for the story if
13:11
Speaker 3: you're going to calculate it like that.
13:13
Speaker 2: Did you get reactions from readers who tried to calculate it?
13:17
Speaker 3: Yes, I think that was even the biggest point, that
13:21
Speaker 3: from the reviews, for example, was that time calculation. Some
13:24
Speaker 3: were really fans of it and they thought it was
13:26
Speaker 3: a very nice element and others were a bit crazy
13:28
Speaker 3: about it.
13:28
Speaker 4: Because they had... They didn't know how or what.
13:32
Speaker 3: They only say that when you let it go and
13:35
Speaker 3: just read it, it.
13:36
Speaker 4: Doesn't bother you anymore. I hope I can share that
13:39
Speaker 4: with the readers. Just read it.
13:41
Speaker 3: It's just a nice little element, as it's meant to be.
13:45
Speaker 3: But it's certainly not super important to fully understand everything.
13:50
Speaker 2: No, I let it go pretty quickly too. I wanted
13:53
Speaker 2: to know if they were talking about days or about you.
13:56
Speaker 1: A bit of a sense of time. Yes, but... I
14:00
Speaker 1: didn't feel like I had to know at the minute.
14:03
Speaker 4: No, that's the intention.
14:04
Speaker 1: Perfect.
14:05
Speaker 2: Did you get a lot of reactions on your first
14:07
Speaker 2: two books? Did you read a.
14:10
Speaker 4: Lot of reviews?
14:12
Speaker 1: Yes, I read all the reviews.
14:13
Speaker 3: But in general, I was very grateful and very happy.
14:17
Speaker 3: You never know what will happen if you send a
14:19
Speaker 3: book to the world and people start reading it. So
14:22
Speaker 3: I was a bit afraid of that, but the reactions
14:25
Speaker 3: were very positive. And if there are points of work
14:29
Speaker 3: that are reported, then I take that with me further
14:30
Speaker 3: in the series. So I see that as growth opportunities.
14:33
Speaker 1: Ah yes, okay. You try to do something with it. Yes,
14:36
Speaker 1: that's right.
14:37
Speaker 3: For example, that time calculation that I just made. I
14:40
Speaker 3: noticed that some people like that, but others don't. I'm
14:42
Speaker 3: still going to use that in the second book, but
14:45
Speaker 3: I'm going to report that a little less. That the
14:47
Speaker 3: people who like to read that less, also have less
14:49
Speaker 3: of a feeling of, wow, this is going to be
14:51
Speaker 3: a lot of work. So instead of saying every time,
14:53
Speaker 3: for example, a few microns later.
14:57
Speaker 3: I say a little later, or not much later, or whatever,
15:00
Speaker 3: to reduce those terms a bit, but they're still there
15:04
Speaker 3: for the readers who like them. Okay.
15:07
Speaker 2: And you've become responsible in a library, then you're at
15:12
Speaker 2: the source, where you have to be.
15:14
Speaker 1: Of course.
15:14
Speaker 2: A very nice environment, absolutely. Yes, very inspiring, I think,
15:19
Speaker 2: when you're a writer yourself. Yes, that's right, and.
15:22
Speaker 4: Certainly because your own books are between.
15:25
Speaker 3: to see other names that you have a lot of
15:26
Speaker 3: respect for, then that's nice.
15:30
Speaker 2: Yes, because you are in different standard bookstores, you are
15:34
Speaker 2: effectively also excluded, not in all of them, I think.
15:37
Speaker 1: No, that's right.
15:38
Speaker 2: Is that something that you yourself also had to do
15:40
Speaker 2: a lot for? I have also spoken to people who
15:42
Speaker 2: themselves had to go to the standard bookstore and ask,
15:45
Speaker 2: is that also the case with Phoenix Books?
15:47
Speaker 3: No, here it is actually the publisher who has contact
15:49
Speaker 3: with the standard bookstore, contact person. And they actually arrange
15:54
Speaker 3: that in between, in which stores it will be located
15:57
Speaker 3: and for how long and so on.
15:59
Speaker 4: So they actually take that into account.
16:00
Speaker 2: A very technical question maybe, I wrote it down here.
16:04
Speaker 2: Did you immediately, in the writing process, how did that go?
16:07
Speaker 2: Did you immediately write in that perspective or did you
16:11
Speaker 2: first experiment?
16:12
Speaker 4: Yes, I have.
16:14
Speaker 3: I've had other writing projects for this, and I've tried
16:17
Speaker 3: to discover different genres, different perspectives, so I've used an
16:23
Speaker 3: I-perspective and so on. But I notice that I'm leaning.
16:27
Speaker 4: More towards the he-she perspective.
16:29
Speaker 3: And especially in the book, because you follow the group
16:32
Speaker 3: of youngsters, but you also follow the general and the colonel,
16:35
Speaker 3: and there are letters, and as a reader you get
16:37
Speaker 3: a broader view of the academy, instead of just following
16:39
Speaker 3: the group. And I think that's important, because in academia
16:44
Speaker 3: everything happens. It's exciting when the reader knows what's going on,
16:48
Speaker 3: while the characters only have a limited vision of the facts.
16:52
Speaker 4: That's why I chose this project.
16:57
Speaker 2: There are a lot of characters. Which one do you
17:01
Speaker 2: think looks the most like you?
17:03
Speaker 3: As you said, as an author, you put a lot
17:06
Speaker 3: of yourself into the book. And I think there are
17:08
Speaker 3: a lot of characters with certain things that you recognize
17:11
Speaker 3: in yourself. But I think Riley, the main character, is
17:14
Speaker 3: the most related to certain things that I say, think
17:18
Speaker 3: or do.
17:18
Speaker 4: It's never one-on-one. But I think I have the most
17:21
Speaker 4: affinity with her.
17:27
Speaker 3: Yes, how she develops from a very insecure character and
17:30
Speaker 3: grows into it. And how far she goes for her friends.
17:34
Speaker 3: I think that's very beautiful about her. And I think
17:39
Speaker 3: that also tells a bit of how I sometimes see
17:42
Speaker 3: or approach certain things.
17:44
Speaker 4: So yes, Riley.
17:48
Speaker 1: How did the idea actually arise in the beginning?
17:50
Speaker 2: Is there something you've read or seen somewhere?
17:53
Speaker 1: Or poep and it was there?
17:57
Speaker 3: It wasn't like.
18:00
Speaker 4: It came to me straight away.
18:02
Speaker 3: It really grew through the writing process itself, that it
18:06
Speaker 3: developed further.
18:08
Speaker 4: And further and got shape.
18:10
Speaker 3: But when I started, it was actually when The Hunger
18:13
Speaker 3: Games and Divergent and that series just came into the
18:17
Speaker 3: cinema and became popular. And that was also a genre
18:21
Speaker 3: that appealed to me very much. So that will undoubtedly
18:24
Speaker 3: be a certain been a source of inspiration, but how
18:28
Speaker 3: the story as it looks now is effectively developed, I
18:33
Speaker 3: can't say that there is indeed some inspiration here, or
18:36
Speaker 3: just people you meet who you think, oh, I want
18:39
Speaker 3: to do something about it, so in that way. And
18:43
Speaker 3: for the rest, just spend a lot of time with
18:45
Speaker 3: it and then it came naturally a bit.
18:49
Speaker 2: That was a while ago, I think. The Hunger Games
18:51
Speaker 2: and stuff. You've been working on.
18:53
Speaker 1: It for a long time.
18:55
Speaker 3: Yes, I think the first book, how long have I
18:58
Speaker 3: been working on it? Eight years, I think.
19:01
Speaker 1: Okay.
19:02
Speaker 3: But as I said, it was never really the intention
19:05
Speaker 3: to publish it.
19:05
Speaker 4: It was really just as a hobby, writing something.
19:07
Speaker 3: And then I went on to the second book and
19:10
Speaker 3: then half of the third, as I said. So... It
19:14
Speaker 3: has been a very long process, but because it was
19:16
Speaker 3: like a hobby and not like, okay, I'm going to
19:18
Speaker 3: write a book now, with an introduction with a lock,
19:20
Speaker 3: so to speak, it may have taken a little longer
19:25
Speaker 3: to find my writing voice, how am I going to
19:26
Speaker 3: tell the story?
19:30
Speaker 2: And then you found the motivation, because it's not easy
19:32
Speaker 2: to write a book, of course. But then you also
19:35
Speaker 2: found the motivation to continue working on it, even though
19:38
Speaker 2: you initially did not plan to do anything with it.
19:40
Speaker 2: Just purely because you.
19:42
Speaker 4: Really like to do it.
19:43
Speaker 1: Yes, I think it's nice.
19:44
Speaker 4: It's a release clip and I just find it very
19:46
Speaker 4: nice to do.
19:47
Speaker 2: And where does the point come from? point that you say,
19:50
Speaker 2: maybe I want to do something with it?
19:54
Speaker 3: At a certain point, I let my best friend read it.
20:01
Speaker 4: She was enthusiastic.
20:01
Speaker 3: And then you have the question, would there still be
20:05
Speaker 3: people enthusiastic?
20:06
Speaker 1: Is it something?
20:07
Speaker 4: And then you get curious about it. Is it worth it?
20:12
Speaker 4: Will I send it to expatriates?
20:14
Speaker 3: And then you have this question of, I want to
20:17
Speaker 3: know if there's something in it, or if others also
20:19
Speaker 3: see what I see in it. And that's how that
20:21
Speaker 3: step is set.
20:22
Speaker 2: Then you probably also had to scrape a lot and
20:26
Speaker 2: start over. Because writing is scraping, they say. But I
20:28
Speaker 2: can imagine, if you're in a process of eight years,
20:31
Speaker 2: that you probably also.
20:33
Speaker 1: Had to do that. Yes, that's right.
20:35
Speaker 4: The book has known a lot of different forms, like a.
20:39
Speaker 3: There has been a lot of change and change, until
20:42
Speaker 3: what it has become now.
20:43
Speaker 2: A lot of scenes that have been cut down, or
20:47
Speaker 2: stories of which you thought, oh, they have to be
20:50
Speaker 2: in there, that you have made them.
20:51
Speaker 3: Yes, because I think in those years I have really
20:54
Speaker 3: grown as an author, because you are so busy with it,
20:57
Speaker 3: and then you have something like, okay, this is maybe
20:59
Speaker 3: very nice to write, but that's why it's not necessarily
21:01
Speaker 3: a relevant chapter for this book, or It's something that
21:04
Speaker 3: may only come later. So, yes, there is a lot
21:07
Speaker 3: of fuss, but I think it is to the benefit
21:10
Speaker 3: of the story.
21:14
Speaker 2: Yes, it is also a kind of profession, of course, writing.
21:16
Speaker 2: Did you learn that yourself by reading a lot? I
21:18
Speaker 2: can imagine that when you started so many years ago,
21:22
Speaker 2: that's really not the version you have now, probably.
21:29
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, I haven't read a lot, because I don't really
21:32
Speaker 3: like to read. My hobbies are really writing, I really
21:35
Speaker 3: like that. And sometimes I find it difficult to read,
21:38
Speaker 3: because I think, oh, I want to do it myself.
21:40
Speaker 3: So somewhere I think, if I had read more, I
21:43
Speaker 3: might have been able to stop and.
21:48
Speaker 4: I don't know, a lot of words, grammar, would be
21:51
Speaker 4: even stronger.
21:51
Speaker 3: But I'm actually very satisfied and grateful for the point
21:56
Speaker 3: I'm at now as a writer. And I will undoubtedly
21:58
Speaker 3: grow in that by just continuing to do it. You
22:04
Speaker 3: send the book to a publisher and they also make
22:06
Speaker 3: edits and so on. So you actually learn a lot
22:09
Speaker 3: from that too. What types of sentences do they scrape
22:12
Speaker 3: or which words fall away.
22:14
Speaker 2: Okay, so they show you what they want to improve
22:17
Speaker 2: or what they.
22:17
Speaker 1: Yes, that's right.
22:18
Speaker 3: So they actually give, they all make notes in the
22:21
Speaker 3: book and I process them myself. And then, yes, that's
22:25
Speaker 3: where you really grow as an author, because then you see, okay,
22:28
Speaker 3: where do they put the emphasis and so on.
22:32
Speaker 2: Ah, okay, that's interesting. It's not like they just do
22:34
Speaker 2: an editorial, and that's it. You really do have a conversation.
22:38
Speaker 1: There is conversation, yes, absolutely.
22:40
Speaker 3: So now, of course, you trust what they say, and
22:44
Speaker 3: they have so much experience with it, that they just
22:47
Speaker 3: follow it. But I think if there really is a
22:51
Speaker 3: sentence in which I say, no, they have to stay
22:53
Speaker 3: like this, or I don't know what, that they will
22:55
Speaker 3: certainly not make it difficult to do that. But linguistically,
22:58
Speaker 3: you really do see... the added value of ZEIDI. Is
23:01
Speaker 3: it really about language.
23:03
Speaker 2: And structure, or are those also things in the story
23:06
Speaker 2: that they say, oh, that.
23:07
Speaker 3: Especially language and structure.
23:10
Speaker 1: Yes, that's right.
23:11
Speaker 3: Yes, in terms of content, I haven't had a lot
23:15
Speaker 3: of reactions yet, like, this has to be different or something.
23:21
Speaker 4: No, not yet.
23:22
Speaker 2: You let your characters experience a lot of intense things.
23:27
Speaker 2: Do you think you would react the same way? How
23:30
Speaker 2: would you react if you had to take part in
23:33
Speaker 2: a course where you don't know what the purpose is?
23:36
Speaker 1: They just put you there. Because that's a situation that's unusual,
23:39
Speaker 1: I would say.
23:40
Speaker 2: I don't think I would react as well as the characters.
23:44
Speaker 4: I'm not that brave either.
23:46
Speaker 3: So I think my reaction is far from what they do.
23:50
Speaker 3: I think they handle certain things very well. and are
23:58
Speaker 3: still quite well organized at certain times.
24:01
Speaker 4: But how I would even react?
24:03
Speaker 1: No idea. No idea. I think I would ask myself
24:07
Speaker 1: more questions. I don't think I would... I don't know. No, yes.
24:10
Speaker 3: They actually just step in blindly and they think, oh yes,
24:14
Speaker 3: we can hear it. And I also think that it
24:16
Speaker 3: might be a bit more like being younger.
24:22
Speaker 1: Yes, that's true.
24:23
Speaker 4: Some of them, not all of them, of course.
24:25
Speaker 3: No, no.
24:25
Speaker 2: Because they're teenagers. They're 17 or something, I think. Something
24:30
Speaker 2: like that, yes.
24:31
Speaker 1: In the story. Yes, yes.
24:32
Speaker 4: Between 15 and 20.
24:32
Speaker 1: That's also the target group you asked for. Those are
24:37
Speaker 1: your readers.
24:38
Speaker 3: Yes, originally that was the target group, because it's young adult.
24:42
Speaker 3: So then you're indeed focusing on 15 plus. But I
24:46
Speaker 3: notice when I'm at fairs or senior sessions, that there's
24:48
Speaker 3: also a lot.
24:50
Speaker 3: Other age groups are interested. So it was actually very
24:53
Speaker 3: nice to see that it is broader than just that
24:56
Speaker 3: very limited group of young adults, but that it has
25:00
Speaker 3: a broader audience.
25:01
Speaker 2: You also go to senior sessions a lot. Do you
25:03
Speaker 2: like meeting people who have read your book or are
25:06
Speaker 2: interested in it?
25:08
Speaker 3: Yes, I just love talking about my book, When someone
25:12
Speaker 3: comes by and says, oh, I've read your book, or
25:13
Speaker 3: I'm working on it, and they ask questions or tell theories,
25:17
Speaker 3: I think that's great. And it's also just nice to
25:20
Speaker 3: be in those places with other authors, or to get
25:22
Speaker 3: to know other authors, because after a while it becomes
25:26
Speaker 3: a bit of a family. You go through a bit
25:28
Speaker 3: of the same thing.
25:30
Speaker 4: You all know the.
25:30
Speaker 3: Struggles of being an author and trying to bring your
25:35
Speaker 3: book to the reader.
25:37
Speaker 4: So yes, those are nice moments, absolutely.
25:39
Speaker 1: And what are the struggles that you experience?
25:44
Speaker 3: I find it difficult as an author to compare myself
25:47
Speaker 3: to others. Especially when you're standing next to each other
25:50
Speaker 3: and you see, oh, she sells more, or oh, she.
25:52
Speaker 4: Has spread edges.
25:53
Speaker 3: You're always comparing how others do it, while actually I'm
26:00
Speaker 3: so grateful to be with what I have in my hands,
26:03
Speaker 3: that that's actually not necessary. And then to hear from
26:06
Speaker 3: other authors, I understand it and you can look at
26:08
Speaker 3: it like this and that. Yes, those are just very
26:11
Speaker 3: nice tips actually. And also to notice that I'm not alone.
26:16
Speaker 3: Or the perfectionism of I want to do everything perfectly.
26:20
Speaker 3: And yes, that is also nice to just notice with
26:23
Speaker 3: other authors. How they experience that, how they deal with it.
26:26
Speaker 3: So I think that's fun.
26:28
Speaker 2: Yes. I wanted to ask, do you find it difficult
26:31
Speaker 2: to get your book from the readers? How do you
26:33
Speaker 2: handle that, making such advertisements? Because I found that one
26:36
Speaker 2: of the most difficult things. When mine came out, I thought, okay,
26:39
Speaker 2: how do I do this now? But if you don't
26:41
Speaker 2: do anything, then of course no one knows that it's there.
26:44
Speaker 4: No, that's right.
26:47
Speaker 3: I'm totally not good at social media and those things,
26:49
Speaker 3: but you have to learn that as an author a
26:51
Speaker 3: little bit.
26:52
Speaker 4: Okay, I have to make posts now.
26:54
Speaker 3: Talking about my book, and every time maybe in a
26:57
Speaker 3: different way, because you don't want people to be bored
27:00
Speaker 3: of seeing it. Yes, I think that's a very difficult part. Indeed,
27:03
Speaker 3: marketing is something that remains a work point.
27:07
Speaker 2: Yes, I myself didn't think it would take so much
27:10
Speaker 2: time and effort, because I actually didn't have an Instagram
27:12
Speaker 2: and so on.
27:13
Speaker 1: No, no, no.
27:13
Speaker 2: So that's something you have to set up yourself, really.
27:17
Speaker 4: Yes, and also very much.
27:19
Speaker 3: Outside the comfort zone, because as an author I am
27:22
Speaker 3: just happy to be busy with... your book and writing
27:24
Speaker 3: about it. And of course, talking to others is also nice,
27:28
Speaker 3: but then.
27:28
Speaker 4: Talking about it online and online visibility, that's a step further.
27:32
Speaker 4: I totally agree.
27:33
Speaker 2: What you said later, usually authors are releasing people, so
27:39
Speaker 2: to speak.
27:40
Speaker 1: To step outside yourself. Yes, that's right. And that's not
27:44
Speaker 1: always easy.
27:45
Speaker 3: No, no.
27:45
Speaker 2: Do you have stress when you have to go to
27:48
Speaker 2: standard bookstores for senior sessions?
27:52
Speaker 4: I always find it exciting.
27:53
Speaker 3: Once you get there and you're at the table and
27:57
Speaker 3: you meet readers, then it's better. But indeed, it's always
27:59
Speaker 3: a bit exciting to step outside that comfort zone and
28:02
Speaker 3: stand there with your book.
28:07
Speaker 4: I think so, yes.
28:08
Speaker 1: Is it also something you do yourself?
28:10
Speaker 2: Or do you ask the publisher, like, oh, this and
28:13
Speaker 2: that day, organise something, go there.
28:16
Speaker 3: No, that's where I then formally ask myself if I'm welcome.
28:21
Speaker 1: What did you find the most difficult about creating your world?
28:27
Speaker 1: Are there things you've run.
28:30
Speaker 3: Into? Yes, I think mostly, it's a series. So it's
28:34
Speaker 3: very important to... now to think about the next books,
28:38
Speaker 3: because if you now say, okay, something works that way,
28:41
Speaker 3: or this is what they have to do, or this
28:43
Speaker 3: is what's going on, then.
28:46
Speaker 4: That has to stay consistent.
28:47
Speaker 3: So if you then come to a later book, then
28:50
Speaker 3: you shouldn't contradict yourself. So I find it very difficult
28:53
Speaker 3: to think ahead, because I'm generally a very impulsive writer.
28:55
Speaker 3: I have something like, oh, I'm just going to write
28:58
Speaker 3: and we'll see where we end up. But that, yes,
29:00
Speaker 3: with a series, you can't do that, because you really
29:02
Speaker 3: have to set those lines and stick to them a bit.
29:06
Speaker 3: And that is especially difficult to think about now, about
29:11
Speaker 3: something that is going to happen in the future.
29:16
Speaker 2: And that you are only going to work out. Yes indeed,
29:18
Speaker 2: because it has to be right. You can't say, oh,
29:20
Speaker 2: it went like that, but we'll change that a little bit.
29:22
Speaker 2: People who really follow.
29:24
Speaker 4: You, of course, they will. Yes, if you read the series,
29:25
Speaker 4: you think, but this was different.
29:27
Speaker 3: And that's a bit of a scare, that you forget
29:30
Speaker 3: certain details, which actually makes you talk to yourself and
29:33
Speaker 3: your series doesn't work anymore.
29:36
Speaker 1: I find that exciting.
29:39
Speaker 2: Did you also read a lot about it to a friend?
29:41
Speaker 2: One of my problems is sometimes when I make a
29:45
Speaker 2: plot twist, I think, oh, is that out of the
29:49
Speaker 2: blue or are people going to see it coming? Because
29:51
Speaker 2: you have to find the right balance in that, of course.
29:54
Speaker 2: How do you try to do that?
29:55
Speaker 3: Yes, I have a best friend who reads the book
29:58
Speaker 3: and she is very good at language, so she does
29:59
Speaker 3: a first edition for a while.
30:00
Speaker 4: But she also thinks about....
30:06
Speaker 3: How does it come about? Is she suddenly out of
30:09
Speaker 3: the blue? Or are there enough details that lead to that?
30:14
Speaker 4: She really thinks along. That's very nice.
30:17
Speaker 3: And besides that, I have a very sweet partner who
30:20
Speaker 3: also reads that. And he's more of the rational man
30:25
Speaker 3: who goes and looks and says, okay, this is possible,
30:28
Speaker 3: is this logical? In a fight scene, she gives him
30:32
Speaker 3: a box. Oh yeah, but that didn't work, because her
30:33
Speaker 3: hand was behind her back. So, those little details where
30:35
Speaker 3: I think, Oh yes, that's true. While I sometimes read
30:40
Speaker 3: about it when I wrote it. So he really thinks
30:42
Speaker 3: critically about it. Is the system of the world right?
30:47
Speaker 4: So yes, I'm actually very lucky with.
30:51
Speaker 2: And they dare to be hard and honest. They dare
30:53
Speaker 2: to say, I don't like that, or I think that's weird.
30:56
Speaker 4: Yes, unfortunately.
30:57
Speaker 3: That sometimes comes in a bit hard, that I think, oh...
31:01
Speaker 3: But I know they mean it well and that it
31:03
Speaker 3: makes the book better, because I'm going to work on
31:04
Speaker 3: it with the feedback.
31:05
Speaker 4: But they're honest. That's what I can say. Absolutely.
31:11
Speaker 1: And do you always agree? Or are there things you think, no, no, I.
31:15
Speaker 4: Won't change that?
31:16
Speaker 1: 90% of the cases I agree with.
31:16
Speaker 4: Sometimes I think, I don't know. But when I read
31:18
Speaker 4: it again afterwards.
31:26
Speaker 4: Then you see how they mean it and you think.
31:28
Speaker 3: Okay, actually they have a point there. So I really
31:32
Speaker 3: take your advice to heart, because they only have the
31:35
Speaker 3: best with me and with the book.
31:36
Speaker 2: One of the things I also read that I found
31:41
Speaker 2: remarkable is that you, in your thank you word and
31:44
Speaker 2: in your foreword, that you actually express your faith so strongly.
31:47
Speaker 2: I think you write, I am in the first place
31:50
Speaker 2: God-grateful that I was able to publish this book.
31:53
Speaker 1: So you are very strong-believing then, you are... Yes, that's right.
31:57
Speaker 1: It's really Christian.
31:59
Speaker 4: Yes, that's right.
32:00
Speaker 3: And I also think it's important that it's in the
32:01
Speaker 3: thank you word, because I'm really convinced that everything I've received,
32:06
Speaker 3: everything I can do, all the people I meet, that's
32:08
Speaker 3: all just a gift from God. He gets all the
32:11
Speaker 3: honor for that.
32:13
Speaker 2: And how does that happen? Because I can tell you
32:15
Speaker 2: that you are quite unique. Or that it happens less
32:18
Speaker 2: and less that people of our age are so strongly religious?
32:22
Speaker 1: Or do I see that wrong? Or do you think otherwise?
32:26
Speaker 4: No, I do not think that it happens very much. Yes, but... Yes, that's...
32:33
Speaker 4: I grew up in that.
32:36
Speaker 3: But at the same time, I'm also very much behind that.
32:40
Speaker 3: And that's just what I believe, what I see as
32:42
Speaker 3: the truth in my eyes. And I can't get ahead
32:46
Speaker 3: of that.
32:46
Speaker 2: No. Yes, I think so too. I think it's very interesting, actually.
32:51
Speaker 2: Because the Christian values, there are more people who can
32:55
Speaker 2: find themselves.
32:56
Speaker 1: There, I think.
32:58
Speaker 3: Yes.
32:58
Speaker 1: Yes.
32:58
Speaker 4: I hope so, of course. Yes.
33:00
Speaker 2: Otherwise we wouldn't be able to sit at the table
33:03
Speaker 2: so satisfied together, I think.
33:05
Speaker 3: Yes. Yes.
33:06
Speaker 2: Does that come from your parents? Were they always very
33:08
Speaker 2: religious in the family? Yes, and then I also went.
33:11
Speaker 3: To church and at a certain age I started to
33:15
Speaker 3: think about it myself. And then I came to the
33:18
Speaker 3: conclusion that for me this is the truth and I
33:21
Speaker 3: see it as.
33:24
Speaker 4: What it is, what the Bible says it is.
33:26
Speaker 2: And do you really believe in the hereafter? Those are
33:30
Speaker 2: things you really believe in?
33:31
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, yes. The Bible faith, so to speak.
33:34
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes.
33:36
Speaker 2: I personally don't believe it, but I think it's very
33:42
Speaker 2: reassuring if you can believe that there is something after
33:46
Speaker 2: this life. Because if you're like me, I have a
33:49
Speaker 2: lot of fear of death, shall I say, because I
33:52
Speaker 2: also assume that there is nothing. So I would like
33:57
Speaker 2: to believe that there is something. Frank always tells me,
34:01
Speaker 2: you're not afraid of death, because you really believe... It's
34:05
Speaker 2: not the end, there's more to come.
34:08
Speaker 3: Yes, I think dying is something else, because nobody wants
34:11
Speaker 3: to die painfully.
34:12
Speaker 1: So that's not something I think, let it come.
34:14
Speaker 4: But I do have a rest, but it goes even
34:15
Speaker 4: further than death.
34:16
Speaker 3: In your life, you experience everything, but just know that
34:20
Speaker 3: God is with you and He has everything in His hands.
34:23
Speaker 3: This works well and it will come one day. A
34:33
Speaker 3: very distant future.
34:34
Speaker 1: All good.
34:35
Speaker 3: And that gives a lot of peace. So it's more
34:37
Speaker 3: than just peace in death, but also peace in life.
34:42
Speaker 2: What are some Christian values that you try to write
34:45
Speaker 2: in your book?
34:46
Speaker 1: It's not a Christian book. It's even quite dark at times.
34:50
Speaker 3: But I think friendship, self-sacrifice, but also just thinking about
34:53
Speaker 3: ethical dilemmas. How far are you willing to go for
35:03
Speaker 3: certain things? I think that also applies to believing in general.
35:08
Speaker 3: Thinking about, why do you do what you do? Why
35:10
Speaker 3: do you believe what you believe? So I think on
35:12
Speaker 3: that level, that there are things. And automatically, there will
35:16
Speaker 3: be Christian things in it, because that's part of who
35:20
Speaker 3: I am. But it's not that I consciously hide Christian
35:23
Speaker 3: things in it or something.
35:24
Speaker 1: No, no, no. Just general values.
35:26
Speaker 2: Because I had written here in chapter 9... It's about
35:30
Speaker 2: coming together.
35:33
Speaker 1: That's also very important.
35:35
Speaker 2: I won't spoil it, but at some point she does
35:36
Speaker 2: something for another character, so that she can stay or
35:39
Speaker 2: not stay.
35:39
Speaker 3: Yes, indeed.
35:40
Speaker 1: A bit of that sense of community.
35:42
Speaker 3: At some point, you stopped being a teacher to become responsible.
35:46
Speaker 1: For the BIP. Why was that? I'm eight years old.
35:57
Speaker 4: In education, as a teacher, I really enjoyed it.
36:00
Speaker 3: But at a certain point, I realized I wasn't doing enough.
36:02
Speaker 3: I always said I didn't want to be a teacher
36:04
Speaker 3: who was against the class. I really wanted to do
36:07
Speaker 3: my job. I couldn't say that after a certain time.
36:10
Speaker 3: So I realized it was time for a change. And
36:14
Speaker 3: then the vacancies of library officials came on my way.
36:26
Speaker 3: Everything that was described there, I was very enthusiastic about it.
36:29
Speaker 3: And then I made the switch and I am very
36:32
Speaker 3: happy with it.
36:33
Speaker 2: Yes, because it is an important profession to be a teacher,
36:36
Speaker 2: of course. But what did you run into? Or why
36:38
Speaker 2: did you not get your satisfaction anymore?
36:43
Speaker 4: I think there were several factors.
36:46
Speaker 3: And I also think in general, social changes, that it
36:48
Speaker 3: is becoming more and more difficult for teachers, that with
36:52
Speaker 3: moments it is more about playing police than teaching. But
36:57
Speaker 3: in itself, I've done those things for years and it
37:02
Speaker 3: never bothered me. But after a while, maybe I changed myself. Yes,
37:08
Speaker 3: I wanted something different.
37:10
Speaker 4: I had seen it.
37:12
Speaker 2: Do you hear that a lot from older colleagues? That
37:14
Speaker 2: the children have become more polite to stay alive? Or
37:18
Speaker 2: that you have to hold them more in your hands
37:21
Speaker 2: than before?
37:22
Speaker 4: Absolutely, yes. More and more, actually.
37:26
Speaker 1: And why do you think that is?
37:28
Speaker 3: Yes, I think, yes, social changes, but what exactly is
37:31
Speaker 3: that about? Yes, maybe the fact that you can say
37:35
Speaker 3: everything on the internet, so everything can and must be said.
37:39
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes.
37:40
Speaker 4: Yes, what is it about?
37:43
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes.
37:45
Speaker 2: And in the library, what exactly do you have to
37:48
Speaker 2: do there?
37:48
Speaker 1: What does it actually contain? Are you a librarian?
37:52
Speaker 2: Yes, that's right.
37:53
Speaker 1: Officially.
37:54
Speaker 4: Yes, it's quite broad.
37:55
Speaker 3: So it's partly networking and working with partners to, for example,
38:01
Speaker 3: get the.
38:01
Speaker 4: School loans in order, but also....
38:07
Speaker 3: We organize an eco-cultural festival every year, where about a
38:13
Speaker 3: thousand visitors come. That is the task of the library,
38:16
Speaker 3: to organize a festival at the beginning of the summer
38:22
Speaker 3: with a theme linked to the library. We also do
38:26
Speaker 3: a mini book fair. Yes, we are actually working on
38:30
Speaker 3: a lot. And then of course just daily work. Make
38:32
Speaker 3: sure that the service is in order, that books are bought. Yes,
38:38
Speaker 3: it is actually quite broad. Think strategically, make decision-making choices. So, yes.
38:45
Speaker 4: A very quiet environment, but a very busy job.
38:47
Speaker 1: How does that work?
38:48
Speaker 2: Do you choose which books you put in or which
38:52
Speaker 2: books you think are relevant to put.
38:54
Speaker 1: In the library?
38:55
Speaker 3: Yes, we have a library employee for that, who is
38:58
Speaker 3: currently working on the collection formation. Who indeed looks at
39:05
Speaker 3: which books are new, which books have won prizes. She
39:09
Speaker 3: then takes care of the purchases, we then go over
39:12
Speaker 3: there together.
39:14
Speaker 4: Yes, so that way.
39:15
Speaker 2: Yes, because I know, in my book I have a lot,
39:17
Speaker 2: I think I have sent every library and done the mail. Yes.
39:20
Speaker 1: For the questions, for me to do it inside and
39:23
Speaker 1: for suggestions.
39:24
Speaker 4: Yes.
39:24
Speaker 1: Does that come in a lot, such suggestions?
39:26
Speaker 4: There are a lot of suggestions.
39:27
Speaker 3: Yes. There are a lot of authors who have written
39:29
Speaker 3: a book and ask to put it in the BIP.
39:30
Speaker 3: So that's a lot of emails.
39:34
Speaker 1: And how do you weigh it off? Because I think
39:35
Speaker 1: mine is in an ass.
39:36
Speaker 2: I don't know for sure. You can see that on
39:40
Speaker 2: the BIP. I like to look at it like that. Oh,
39:43
Speaker 2: there it is all. Oh, there it has been borrowed.
39:46
Speaker 2: And there it is available. But how do you weigh
39:48
Speaker 2: that off? Which books are a personal choice?
39:53
Speaker 3: No, we do have criteria that we stick to, but
39:56
Speaker 3: it's also partly that the Library of Limburg has looked
40:00
Speaker 3: at which publishing houses it is. Book management is dealt
40:03
Speaker 3: with more carefully than, for example, books that have a
40:06
Speaker 3: publishing house behind them. We also look at the reader's audience.
40:11
Speaker 4: What is popular? What do people like to read? Do
40:15
Speaker 4: you take that into account as well?
40:17
Speaker 3: So there are actually several criteria. When did it appear?
40:22
Speaker 3: So I can't immediately tell you that this is the
40:26
Speaker 3: golden formula that always ends up in your book in
40:28
Speaker 3: every library. But there are certain things.
40:32
Speaker 4: We look at.
40:33
Speaker 2: And why are you more careful with people who give
40:35
Speaker 2: out their own control? Because the quality may be a
40:38
Speaker 2: little less?
40:39
Speaker 1: Yes, that's right.
40:39
Speaker 3: So usually when there is a publisher behind it, then
40:43
Speaker 3: you also know for sure that there is editorial work
40:47
Speaker 3: going on. This is something that publishers do not believe
40:50
Speaker 3: that it can sell. So that's what a reader's.
40:52
Speaker 4: Audience is for. While you don't always know that for
40:53
Speaker 4: your own control.
40:55
Speaker 3: That doesn't mean that there aren't any absolute pearls in EGB.
40:59
Speaker 1: No, certainly not.
41:00
Speaker 4: And that the.
41:00
Speaker 3: Authors are less gifted, which is absolutely not the case.
41:05
Speaker 3: I think that they are just very tired and put
41:09
Speaker 3: a lot of time and energy into a project. And
41:11
Speaker 3: that is certainly also noticeable in the products they deliver.
41:15
Speaker 3: But as a library, you sometimes have to be a
41:18
Speaker 3: bit more careful. You can't just put everything in the bin.
41:23
Speaker 3: Sometimes you also have books that are full of typos.
41:27
Speaker 1: Yes, if there really isn't an editorial office.
41:29
Speaker 4: You have everything in between.
41:31
Speaker 3: And that's why it's sometimes a bit of a consideration
41:33
Speaker 3: of which ones you buy and which ones you don't.
41:36
Speaker 3: And that's sometimes a hard one.
41:40
Speaker 1: What do you like most about your job in the bin?
41:43
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people think that it's boring,
41:46
Speaker 2: or that it's sitting there all day, but like I've
41:48
Speaker 2: already told you, it's not like that at all.
41:50
Speaker 1: No, it's too busy.
41:51
Speaker 3: Yes, I could sit there a little longer sometimes, I think.
41:56
Speaker 4: It has very nice aspects.
41:57
Speaker 3: Partly because you're busy with people, and with a team,
42:01
Speaker 3: and with volunteers.
42:02
Speaker 4: That's very nice.
42:03
Speaker 1: Volunteers too. Yes, that's right.
42:05
Speaker 3: So people can do volunteer work in the BIB. And
42:08
Speaker 3: that can go from collecting books, to putting books back,
42:11
Speaker 3: to checking toys, because we also borrow board games. Or
42:16
Speaker 3: helping with the class rentals, when children come, showing where
42:19
Speaker 3: the books are exactly, how to look for them.
42:21
Speaker 4: So it's really.
42:22
Speaker 3: Broad what you can do as a volunteer.
42:24
Speaker 4: That's really nice. We also have a very nice team
42:26
Speaker 4: of volunteers.
42:26
Speaker 3: So that's a very nice aspect. I also like organizing events.
42:32
Speaker 3: Strategic thinking is also very nice. So let's not choose
42:36
Speaker 3: one aspect, because it's a really cool job.
42:40
Speaker 1: There are different ones. Is that the wind we hear?
42:42
Speaker 4: That's the wind, yes.
42:44
Speaker 1: Oh, I thought the ghosts would come. The window in
42:47
Speaker 1: the kitchen is open, so you have to close it. No, no, no, no, no, no.
42:52
Speaker 1: It won't matter that much, I think. Do you still
42:56
Speaker 1: rent DVDs? Are they still available?
42:57
Speaker 3: They're still in the collection, but they're still less and
43:01
Speaker 3: less borrowed. We're about to go to Cinebieb, a streaming
43:05
Speaker 3: platform for libraries, more of a cultural offer, where people
43:11
Speaker 3: can get a subscription and stream in that way.
43:15
Speaker 1: Okay, so they can do it on a laptop or something?
43:18
Speaker 3: Laptop or television, depending. I think they need a Chromecast
43:21
Speaker 3: for that. Or send it through the phone.
43:26
Speaker 1: Yes, you can indeed use Cinebib.
43:29
Speaker 2: In Tongeren's Bib, I often see people of other languages
43:33
Speaker 2: who come to follow some lessons. Is that the case
43:36
Speaker 2: with you too? Does that also have something to do
43:39
Speaker 2: with society?
43:41
Speaker 4: Yes, Als is.
43:41
Speaker 3: Definitely a little less diverse than, for example, the municipality
43:46
Speaker 3: of Genk.
43:47
Speaker 4: In Genk they have done a little more. Genk is
43:48
Speaker 4: also a little bigger. In Als it is a little smaller.
43:53
Speaker 3: So our offer is a little less, but what we
43:55
Speaker 3: want to use more on, for example, is digital literacy.
43:58
Speaker 3: Helping people who have digital problems. We have a digital
44:02
Speaker 3: doctor who helps people every Wednesday in the Beep City.
44:04
Speaker 4: Helping people to be stuck.
44:06
Speaker 1: To send a mail or something.
44:07
Speaker 2: Or installing It's Me.
44:08
Speaker 1: Ah yes.
44:09
Speaker 3: Yes. I think every problem, they bought an e-reader, but
44:15
Speaker 3: they can't put the books on it or things like that.
44:18
Speaker 3: So he helps them with all the problems they have.
44:20
Speaker 3: We also provide workshops so that people can inform themselves.
44:23
Speaker 4: About how certain apps work. What is phishing? So we
44:27
Speaker 4: mainly focus on that, to bring that under the attention
44:31
Speaker 4: of the people. Under the attention.
44:34
Speaker 1: Under the attention. Yes, yes, yes.
44:36
Speaker 4: To the people.
44:37
Speaker 1: Yes. I'm usually too late. to bring in my books.
44:41
Speaker 2: And then I have to pay a bit of money,
44:43
Speaker 2: or what is it? Are you angry at people for
44:45
Speaker 2: not letting them bring in their books?
44:49
Speaker 3: I think that sometimes we'll just be very happy that
44:50
Speaker 3: the materials come back.
44:52
Speaker 1: Does it often happen that it doesn't come back?
44:54
Speaker 3: Yes, that we have to mail or send a letter like, hey,
44:57
Speaker 3: can you think about your books for a while?
45:00
Speaker 1: Is that not automatic?
45:01
Speaker 2: Because I get regularly like, oh, you're three days too
45:04
Speaker 2: late or something.
45:05
Speaker 3: Yes, there are automatic mails, but some letters we have
45:07
Speaker 3: to send ourselves and So we're happy when people return
45:12
Speaker 3: their books and pay their bills. Then we're not angry
45:14
Speaker 3: about that. What happens when you lose a BIP book?
45:16
Speaker 1: You have to report it to the library and see
45:19
Speaker 1: how much it cost to buy it. You have to
45:20
Speaker 1: pay for it or buy it yourself and donate it
45:23
Speaker 1: to the BIP.
45:23
Speaker 4: It's up to you.
45:37
Speaker 1: Interesting, a nice job to have as a writer, I think. Yes,
45:40
Speaker 1: very nice.
45:40
Speaker 2: Then your own book is on the shelf. It's in
45:44
Speaker 2: the library, but I don't try to advertise it too much.
45:46
Speaker 2: It's your job, not.
45:47
Speaker 1: Your private life.
45:48
Speaker 3: No, you don't want to make any mistakes. Yes, that's
45:51
Speaker 3: what I was looking for.
46:02
Speaker 2: I did notice that it was more borrowed when you
46:06
Speaker 2: were between the new books, or on the side. Because sometimes,
46:10
Speaker 2: I think you do that with new books.
46:12
Speaker 3: Yes, we have a rack with new books, where it
46:15
Speaker 3: is then frontally. And yes, people actually walk by when
46:18
Speaker 3: they come in. So that's one of the first things
46:20
Speaker 3: they see.
46:21
Speaker 1: Yes, that's right. That's what we have too. Where can
46:26
Speaker 1: people buy your book?
46:30
Speaker 4: Everywhere, I think.
46:31
Speaker 3: Standard bookshop, I think it's available everywhere. On Bol, on Amazon,
46:36
Speaker 3: at the publishing house itself. So if you go to
46:39
Speaker 3: the website of the publishing house Phoenix Books, it will
46:40
Speaker 3: also be there. I don't have an own website or something.
46:43
Speaker 1: I don't have an own website. No, not yet.
46:45
Speaker 4: I'm thinking about it, but so far we're not there yet.
46:46
Speaker 2: Okay. And you're already working on the third part, maybe
46:52
Speaker 2: even on the fourth, because you said that you're already
46:57
Speaker 2: working on it.
46:59
Speaker 3: It's more than a trilogy, so indeed, I'm now putting
47:02
Speaker 3: the three dots on the i, and from book four
47:06
Speaker 3: I'm also slowly putting the first chapter on paper.
47:09
Speaker 2: And do you already have an idea of when that
47:11
Speaker 2: will come out?
47:13
Speaker 3: I have a certain deadline there, which I'm trying to
47:17
Speaker 3: keep up for the publisher, to send it to them.
47:21
Speaker 3: But when it will appear, I don't have a specific
47:24
Speaker 3: date yet.
47:26
Speaker 2: It's not like when you're in a row, that the
47:28
Speaker 2: publisher says, we want to submit now, but on that
47:31
Speaker 2: period we want book 2, on that period we want
47:33
Speaker 2: book 3.
47:33
Speaker 1: That's not how it works.
47:35
Speaker 3: They give a certain vision, or what they hope, but
47:39
Speaker 3: they don't put pressure on it. Because I think they
47:42
Speaker 3: also find it more important to deliver quality than to say, okay,
47:45
Speaker 3: that date should be finished. Uncertain quality and uncertain... I
47:49
Speaker 3: think they'd rather give more time for the book, if
47:51
Speaker 3: you can say as the author, okay, here's what I
47:55
Speaker 3: want to make. Then they say, oh yes, make something quickly,
47:58
Speaker 3: then we can submit it. So we haven't set a
48:01
Speaker 3: fixed date.
48:02
Speaker 2: But if you send it to the publisher now, how
48:04
Speaker 2: much time is left before it comes out?
48:08
Speaker 4: I think five months.
48:11
Speaker 1: Okay, yes, yes.
48:12
Speaker 4: I think something like that, about five, six, because yes.
48:15
Speaker 3: Then the cover has to be made, then the edits
48:19
Speaker 3: have to be made, which I have to process again.
48:23
Speaker 3: The inside work, so there is still something to look
48:26
Speaker 3: at in the process. So that takes a while before
48:29
Speaker 3: it is effectively in the shelves in the stores.
48:32
Speaker 2: And do you get it well combined with your job, actually,
48:34
Speaker 2: writing and working? Because I can imagine that it is
48:36
Speaker 2: not always as easy, because I think many people do
48:38
Speaker 2: not realize how much time there is.
48:42
Speaker 1: In a book.
48:42
Speaker 4: Yes, that's right.
48:43
Speaker 3: Because it's writing, but also being at events, social media,
48:48
Speaker 3: marketing and so on. So there's a lot to look at.
48:52
Speaker 3: It's very difficult to combine with moments. So I'm actually
48:55
Speaker 3: working from January 4th to 5th to have a little
48:59
Speaker 3: more time for that hobby and to be able to
49:03
Speaker 3: make time for that, to write.
49:06
Speaker 1: Do you still call it a hobby?
49:07
Speaker 2: Is it your goal to make it a profession?
49:13
Speaker 4: It's a bit of a dream, but yes.
49:14
Speaker 3: Do you think that's realistic?
49:17
Speaker 1: I don't know.
49:20
Speaker 4: I don't know. At the moment, not at all.
49:23
Speaker 3: We're still growing in knowledge. But it would be cool
49:25
Speaker 3: to make your hobby your profession.
49:29
Speaker 4: At the same time, I think, oh no, I have
49:31
Speaker 4: a very cool job.
49:37
Speaker 1: Or 50-50, in any case.
49:38
Speaker 3: What the future brings, I have no idea, but I'll
49:41
Speaker 3: look into it.
49:42
Speaker 2: A lot of people look at how much you earn
49:44
Speaker 2: on a book. That's a lot less than people think.
49:46
Speaker 2: That's my impression. To really say, I want to make
49:49
Speaker 2: my profession, you have to sell 10 or 20 thousand
49:52
Speaker 2: a year.
49:52
Speaker 1: I've never made a decision.
49:54
Speaker 4: I think... And also, you work with a company, so
50:05
Speaker 4: we are also part of the profit.
50:06
Speaker 1: Yes, of course, everyone has to be something.
50:10
Speaker 4: But I've never calculated how many there are.
50:12
Speaker 2: Tony Koppers or Pieter Aspen, who have lived off it,
50:16
Speaker 2: I think they would have been at 20,000 pieces a year.
50:18
Speaker 1: I think they're talking about other numbers. Which is a
50:20
Speaker 1: huge number.
50:20
Speaker 4: We're not there yet.
50:21
Speaker 1: We're at 19,000. Thank you, Deborah. I thought it was
50:22
Speaker 1: a nice conversation.
50:23
Speaker 4: Thank you.
50:24
Speaker 1: Thank you for letting me come here.
50:38
Speaker 2: And to conclude, we're going to read a little bit
50:41
Speaker 2: from your book, I think. So that people have a
50:42
Speaker 2: little preview of what they can expect. We're going to
50:46
Speaker 2: make them a little curious, of course.
50:48
Speaker 4: Okay, great. I want to read something from the first chapter. Yes.
50:56
Speaker 3: Not completely, but a little bit. Chapter 1, Mysteries and Possibilities.
51:00
Speaker 3: 484 survivors after the.
51:02
Speaker 4: Arrival of the colonists.''.
51:06
Speaker 3: Your name and province, young man?'' asked the strict man
51:08
Speaker 3: behind the official sign.'' William Thompson, province 15,'' answered the
51:12
Speaker 3: young man. The officer looked at the monitor. He stared
51:18
Speaker 3: at the young man with an urgent look.'' Most candidates
51:22
Speaker 3: have registered voluntarily. That's not the case with you. You
51:25
Speaker 3: may go and sit.'' William stood uncomfortably. He looked at
51:31
Speaker 3: the officer in front of him. Met alle respect, maar
51:35
Speaker 3: waarom ben ik hier? De twee mannen in uniform die
51:38
Speaker 3: aan mijn deur stonden vanmorgen gaven geen informatie. Ze zeiden
51:41
Speaker 3: alleen dat ik onmiddellijk mee moest komen. Het zou te
51:43
Speaker 3: maken hebben met de staatsveiligheid, vroeg William kritisch. De jongen
51:47
Speaker 3: had bruine krullen. Hij was groot, mager en had een
51:50
Speaker 3: open gezicht door zijn duidelijke juikbeenderen.
51:52
Speaker 4: Hij straalde op rechtheid uit.
51:54
Speaker 3: Met zijn grijze ogen keek William onderzoekend rond in de
51:57
Speaker 3: wachtruimte van het loket. Die was echter leeg en de
52:00
Speaker 3: muren waren kaal. De inrichting gaf geen antwoordenprijs. De officier
52:05
Speaker 3: herhaalde uitdrukkelijk, je mag even gaan zitten, zometeen zal assistent
52:09
Speaker 3: Sawyer jou naar de kolonel brengen voor meer uitleg. Teleurgesteld
52:14
Speaker 3: draaide William zich om en plofte zich neer op een
52:17
Speaker 3: van de houten stoelen in de wachtruimte. Vermoeid vreef hij
52:20
Speaker 3: in zijn ogen, het beloofde een lange eiercode te worden.
52:24
Speaker 3: Na hem kwamen nog verschillende jongeren het onthaal binnen. Geen
52:27
Speaker 3: van hen werd echter verzorgd om te wachten. Sterker nog,
52:30
Speaker 3: zij leken wel de reden van hun aanwezigheid te kennen...
52:32
Speaker 3: because they were tempted to be in the capital. That
52:35
Speaker 3: enthusiasm was lost in William. After 20 micrones, a strange
52:40
Speaker 3: man came in. He had a big nose, thick lips
52:43
Speaker 3: and a blonde forest of greasy hair that had come
52:46
Speaker 3: to the back. William Thompson, province 15, he.
52:48
Speaker 4: Asked, chased up.
52:49
Speaker 3: That's me, the boy said, and he stood up. The
52:54
Speaker 3: man stepped up to him, officially shook his hand and
52:56
Speaker 3: introduced himself. My name is Lincoln Sawyer, nice to meet you.
53:00
Speaker 3: I am the assistant of the fire department. Welkom in
53:02
Speaker 3: de Academie der Staatsveiligheid van Jamestown. Ik zal je begeleiden
53:06
Speaker 3: naar de kolonel. Je hebt vast veel vragen. Dat kan
53:08
Speaker 3: je wel zeggen, glimlachte William dankbaar. De vreemde assistent wees
53:12
Speaker 3: de weg door het labyrinth van smalle gangen. William volgde
53:16
Speaker 3: de man, tegen rond dertig B-alpha schatten op de voet.
53:19
Speaker 3: Hij droeg geen uniform, in tegenstelling tot alle andere volwassenen
53:23
Speaker 3: die William tot nu toe had gezien in de academie.
53:25
Speaker 3: In plaats daarvan had hij een afzichtelijk ruitjespak aan met
53:28
Speaker 3: opvallende machetknopen.
53:31
Speaker 4: Is that the logo of Superman?'' asked William, smiling. The
53:34
Speaker 4: assistant looked at his machete buttons up close and confirmed,'' Yes,
53:38
Speaker 4: you know the superhero universe of the first world?'''' Impressive.''''.
53:43
Speaker 3: I' m from province 15,'' said William, as if that was
53:45
Speaker 3: an explanation for his knowledge. Lincoln wanted to respond, but
53:50
Speaker 3: the second cell had arrived at the office of the officer.
53:53
Speaker 4: On the door, his bronze nameplate shone.
53:57
Speaker 3: Colonel Charles Foley read William whistling, while Lincoln pushed on
54:00
Speaker 3: the buzzer next to the door. As soon as a
54:03
Speaker 3: green light lit up, Lincoln opened the door and stepped
54:06
Speaker 3: into the bureau. Colonel, I brought William Thompson from Province 15,
54:11
Speaker 3: he said stiffly. Let him in, you may wait in
54:15
Speaker 3: the hallway, Assistant Sawyer. Lincoln left the office and took
54:19
Speaker 3: to William. Arzlan stepped into the office and locked the door.
54:23
Speaker 3: De kolonel nam een dossier voor zich, zette zijn bril
54:26
Speaker 3: op en liet weten dat William.
54:27
Speaker 4: Mocht gaan zitten.
54:28
Speaker 3: Jongeheer Thompson, welkom op de Academie der Staatsveiligheid, hier in
54:32
Speaker 3: het hart van Jameston.
54:33
Speaker 4: Ben je alleen eens in de hoofdstad geweest? vroeg de
54:35
Speaker 4: gezaghebber opgetogen.
54:37
Speaker 3: Hoewel de kolonel een gemoedelijke sfeer probeerde te creëren, voelde
54:40
Speaker 3: William zich ongemakkelijk. Een aantal keren ja, ik had alleen
54:44
Speaker 3: niet verwacht om vandaag naar de hoofdstad te worden geëscorteerd.
54:48
Speaker 3: De kale kolonel knikte. A few interfaces ago, we called
54:53
Speaker 3: on all Jamestown youth between 15 and 20 B-alpha to
54:56
Speaker 3: sign up for a new training program. The response was great,
55:00
Speaker 3: as expected. The selected candidates who have passed the screening
55:03
Speaker 3: have the chance to drastically change their future opportunities.
55:08
Speaker 4: I remember the call to sign us up.
55:10
Speaker 3: I also remember that I didn't do that, said William
55:13
Speaker 3: with a frown on his forehead. May I ask for
55:16
Speaker 3: what reason you decided not to report yourself? You have
55:19
Speaker 3: sufficient capacity to flourish here and enough ambition to work
55:23
Speaker 3: for the government, the colonel asked intrigued. William took the
55:27
Speaker 3: time to whittle and weigh the arguments in his head.
55:28
Speaker 3: He took into account that he had a powerful officer
55:32
Speaker 3: in front of him who could have a great influence
55:34
Speaker 3: on his future.
55:35
Speaker 4: I don't.
55:37
Speaker 3: Like the mysterious atmosphere around the call. I don't like
55:40
Speaker 3: to write in for something when I don't know what's
55:42
Speaker 3: waiting for me. Daarnaast ben ik pas aan de universiteit begonnen.
55:47
Speaker 3: Als ik zou kiezen voor de training, zou dat betekenen
55:49
Speaker 3: dat ik mijn opleiding tot fysicus niet zou kunnen vervolledigen,
55:52
Speaker 3: legde William uit. De kolonel knikte wijselijk. Goede redenen, ongetwijfeld. Inderdaad,
55:58
Speaker 3: dus waarom ben ik dan alsnog hier, met alle respect,
56:01
Speaker 3: vroeg William vastberaden.