Latest / The Book Deal / The Writing Deal: Are too many books being published and is community the key to increased readers? Plus the joy of book boxes! Catch up with Tina and Natasha.

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The Writing Deal: Are too many books being published and is community the key to increased readers? Plus the joy of book boxes! Catch up with Tina and Natasha. · The Book Deal

• 0:09
  Speaker: The Book Deal Podcast Where you will discover the inspiring stories behind your favorite books.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: We interview seasoned and debut authors, as well as publishing industry professionals, to bring you the best tips and advice on how to get that elusive book deal.
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: So no matter what stage of writing you're at, we've got you covered.
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: I'm Tina Strachan.
• 0:30
  Speaker: I'm Madeleine Cleary.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: And I'm Natasha Rai.
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: And join us as we pull back the curtain of published authors.
• 0:37
  Speaker 4: One deal at a time.
• 0:43
  Speaker 4: The Book Deal podcast acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and waters which it's recorded on, and pays respect to their elders past, present, and emerging.
• 0:56
  Tina Strachan: Hi, Natasha Rai.
• 0:56
  Tina Strachan: How are you doing?
• 0:58
  Natasha Rai: Oh, good, Tina Strachan.
• 0:59
  Natasha Rai: How are you?
• 1:00
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, really good.
• 1:02
  Tina Strachan: Just the two of us today.
• 1:03
  Tina Strachan: I know.
• 1:04
  Tina Strachan: In our- It's
• 1:04
  Natasha Rai: a
• 1:05
  Tina Strachan: bit sad.
• 1:06
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 1:06
  Tina Strachan: It is a bit sad.
• 1:06
  Tina Strachan: No Mads today.
• 1:07
  Tina Strachan: But she's been a busy lady and working very hard.
• 1:10
  Tina Strachan: Yes, so having to skip this catch up.
• 1:12
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 1:12
  Tina Strachan: But I'm sure we'll, um, have a nice big catch up when we chat to her next time.
• 1:17
  Tina Strachan: But speaking of catch-ups, tell me, what have you been up to?
• 1:22
  Natasha Rai: You know what?
• 1:23
  Natasha Rai: I would actually like one catch-up episode for me to go,"You know what?
• 1:27
  Natasha Rai: I've been really free and easy and have nothing on." Are you?
• 1:32
  Natasha Rai: But it's never the way.
• 1:32
  Natasha Rai: No, I would like one.
• 1:34
  Natasha Rai: I'm still waiting for one, to say that.
• 1:36
  Natasha Rai: So I had some really lovely news.
• 1:39
  Natasha Rai: So I didn't score a place for one of the Varuna fellowships, but I was highly commended.
• 1:46
  Natasha Rai: Mm.
• 1:46
  Natasha Rai: Which is the first time that's ever happened, so, um.
• 1:48
  Tina Strachan: Congratulations.
• 1:49
  Natasha Rai: Yeah, it, it felt- That's awesome it, it's both really cool and also like,"Ah, just missed out." But-
• 1:55
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 1:55
  Natasha Rai: Yeah, I know given that they had an unprecedented- Wow number of submissions for this one- I feel very grateful that-
• 2:04
  Tina Strachan: Yeah
• 2:04
  Natasha Rai: yeah that I got a named place, so to speak.
• 2:07
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 2:07
  Tina Strachan: Absolutely.
• 2:07
  Tina Strachan: Can you tell people a little bit, who don't know about Varuna, what Varuna is?
• 2:11
  Natasha Rai: Yeah, so Varuna is...
• 2:13
  Natasha Rai: It- they're called the National Writers' House, and it used to be owned by Eleanor and Mick Dark, who were writers and lived there.
• 2:20
  Natasha Rai: And now that it's been donated and it's run by a trust, for writers to come and stay and write.
• 2:27
  Natasha Rai: And you can, um...
• 2:28
  Natasha Rai: So Varuna run a series of fellowships and residences all year round on their own, and then in partnerships with different writer centers in each state.
• 2:37
  Natasha Rai: And if you're an alumnus, if that's the right word, yes, um, you can actually just pay it and go.
• 2:44
  Natasha Rai: So, um-
• 2:44
  Tina Strachan: Oh, I didn't realize that.
• 2:46
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 2:46
  Natasha Rai: So I think they used to- Ah you could just pay and go any time, but now I think it's only for alumni who have that opportunity.
• 2:53
  Natasha Rai: So once you go and stay there, um, you can just write to them and see the next available, and you can just pay it and go.
• 2:59
  Natasha Rai: And the cool thing is, it's, it's not just you go and stay there, but all your meals are cooked for you.
• 3:04
  Natasha Rai: Mm.
• 3:05
  Natasha Rai: So you get your, like- Because every dinner is cooked for you.
• 3:09
  Natasha Rai: There's an amazing library.
• 3:11
  Natasha Rai: The grounds are just beautiful.
• 3:12
  Natasha Rai: Um, it's in Katoomba in the Blue Mountains, so- Mm there's lots of beautiful walks, and this town center is really nearby, so you can get good coffee if you want.
• 3:20
  Natasha Rai: It's just an amazing place.
• 3:22
  Natasha Rai: I've visited writers who've been staying there, but I haven't yet been able to score a fellowship or a residency- Mm opportunity myself.
• 3:31
  Natasha Rai: But it's, it's on, it's, um, part of the dream.
• 3:33
  Natasha Rai: It's getting
• 3:33
  Tina Strachan: closer.
• 3:34
  Natasha Rai: Hopefully, yes.
• 3:35
  Natasha Rai: We'll see.
• 3:35
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 3:35
  Natasha Rai: Mm.
• 3:36
  Natasha Rai: Yeah, so their main one i- are the Varuna fellowships every year, and I think You can check their website, but I'm pretty sure that they offer 50 places.
• 3:44
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 3:45
  Natasha Rai: Um, so it's through various...
• 3:46
  Natasha Rai: And then you can look at the categories,'cause there's specific categories.
• 3:49
  Natasha Rai: For example, if you're a carer, there is this category that you can enter.
• 3:53
  Natasha Rai: And it's not like you can't enter the general plus whatever else.
• 3:56
  Natasha Rai: So when you look at the application form,'cause it, it's annual, you'll see that you can just tick whichever boxes apply to you.
• 4:04
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm, yeah.
• 4:04
  Natasha Rai: Um, and then of course- Yeah just check your state writers' center to see what other opportunities there are.
• 4:09
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, Queensland Writers' Centre, I noticed,'cause I'm part of Queensland Writers' Centre, um, yeah, recently had them open as well, so.
• 4:15
  Tina Strachan: That's right.
• 4:15
  Tina Strachan: Yes, just check your local writers' centre for- Yeah when they have them open.
• 4:20
  Natasha Rai: Exactly.
• 4:21
  Tina Strachan: Oh, well, I'm sad that you missed out, Tash, but excited'cause it's getting closer and highly commended.
• 4:27
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 4:27
  Tina Strachan: That's incredible.
• 4:28
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, it is.
• 4:28
  Tina Strachan: 'Cause I feel like there was lots of amazing authors who they just couldn't decide from.
• 4:32
  Natasha Rai: Yeah, I mean, they had 812 entries.
• 4:34
  Natasha Rai: Oh.
• 4:34
  Natasha Rai: So it's...
• 4:35
  Natasha Rai: I'm just...
• 4:36
  Natasha Rai: Yeah, it's a real honor to be-
• 4:37
  Tina Strachan: Wow
• 4:38
  Natasha Rai: highly commended.
• 4:39
  Natasha Rai: Mm.
• 4:39
  Natasha Rai: Um, so that happened.
• 4:40
  Natasha Rai: That was great.
• 4:41
  Natasha Rai: Um, what else?
• 4:42
  Natasha Rai: So I'm just about to go into copy edits on The Bride Price.
• 4:47
  Natasha Rai: The Bride Price.
• 4:47
  Natasha Rai: Um, so I'm waiting to hear back from that.
• 4:50
  Natasha Rai: Um, touch wood it's not gonna be major.
• 4:52
  Natasha Rai: And the other thing I'm doing is I'm prepping for the QLit Festival in Melbourne in a couple of weeks.
• 4:59
  Natasha Rai: So I'm on a panel with some amaz- a poet and a short story writer and a novelist.
• 5:05
  Natasha Rai: Actually, it's Samantha Byres' art novel, who was a debut from last year.
• 5:08
  Natasha Rai: Dead Ends is her novel.
• 5:09
  Tina Strachan: Wow.
• 5:10
  Natasha Rai: So I'm just reading those works and getting together all my ideas about what I wanna talk to them about.
• 5:15
  Natasha Rai: And then I'm also prepping for a workshop that I'm doing at the Hunter Writers Centre on the 25th of July.
• 5:21
  Natasha Rai: So if you're in Newcastle, people, um, come along.
• 5:24
  Natasha Rai: It's about complicated characters, and I love a complicated character.
• 5:28
  Natasha Rai: Mm.
• 5:28
  Natasha Rai: It's gonna be really, really practical, hands-on, quite fast-paced.
• 5:32
  Natasha Rai: So, check it out on their website.
• 5:35
  Natasha Rai: It's...
• 5:35
  Natasha Rai: Yeah, come along if you can.
• 5:37
  Tina Strachan: I love that.
• 5:37
  Tina Strachan: So does it just go for an hour?
• 5:39
  Tina Strachan: How long
• 5:40
  Natasha Rai: does the workshop go for?
• 5:41
  Natasha Rai: No, it's, it's four hours.
• 5:41
  Natasha Rai: It's, it's- Four
• 5:42
  Tina Strachan: hours?
• 5:42
  Tina Strachan: Nice
• 5:42
  Natasha Rai: yep, I think it's 1:00 till 5:00.
• 5:44
  Natasha Rai: Um,'cause-
• 5:44
  Tina Strachan: Yeah,'cause you said fast-paced, so I thought,"Okay, how do you do that in..." Yeah Like,'cause a lot of work- a lot of kids workshops that I do only go for an hour.
• 5:51
  Tina Strachan: That's all you can really
• 5:51
  Natasha Rai: do.
• 5:51
  Natasha Rai: Yeah, exactly.
• 5:52
  Natasha Rai: People get bored.
• 5:52
  Natasha Rai: No, no, this is...
• 5:53
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 5:54
  Natasha Rai: So I, so what we're gonna do is the first couple of hours is gonna be just looking at how you can start to think about your characters and what you need to think, like, how you can think about them, what you can put on the page.
• 6:05
  Natasha Rai: And then the second half of the workshop, the n- last couple of hours, we're gonna put them in some really stressful and demanding situations and see what happens.
• 6:13
  Tina Strachan: Oh,
• 6:13
  Natasha Rai: that sounds like lots of fun.
• 6:13
  Natasha Rai: So it'll be hopefully fun.
• 6:15
  Natasha Rai: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:15
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, that sounds like awesome fun.
• 6:17
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, so definitely not just been doing nothing, have you?
• 6:21
  Tina Strachan: Over, over the last month.
• 6:22
  Tina Strachan: Plus,
• 6:22
  Natasha Rai: plus client work, yes.
• 6:23
  Natasha Rai: Yep.
• 6:23
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 6:24
  Tina Strachan: Oh, cool.
• 6:24
  Natasha Rai: How about you, Tina?
• 6:25
  Tina Strachan: Look, I've been having a little less on, I think- Oh, that makes sense which has actually been nice.
• 6:29
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 6:30
  Tina Strachan: But I've had school holidays, right?
• 6:31
  Tina Strachan: So I...
• 6:32
  Tina Strachan: It's been really good to actually just take that time and So instead of sitting in front of the computer, we went to the circus, which, uh, which was incredible, by the way.
• 6:42
  Tina Strachan: Like,
• 6:43
  Natasha Rai: I went- I didn't even know circuses still existed well, I,
• 6:45
  Tina Strachan: I actually don't think they call it a circus anymore, but there's still, like, a big, big top tent sort of thing.
• 6:49
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 6:49
  Tina Strachan: And, like, there's no animals and, that kind of thing.
• 6:52
  Tina Strachan: But it's just all, like, entertainers and performers- Oh and just so, so fun.
• 6:57
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, and just, going to the movies and going to some theme parks and just, having a good old fun time, which has been really good.
• 7:06
  Tina Strachan: And, because I had a few writing projects on the go that I've sort of, you know, handed in, so I've just come to a little point, and I did think to myself,"I'll take a little bit of time to get back on top of my admin," because I tend to really hyper-focus when I've got something that I'm trying to wrap up or that I have due, and I kind of sometimes let the rest of the admin go to the wayside.
• 7:24
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 7:24
  Tina Strachan: So I thought,"Okay, well, once I've handed that in, I'll just, um, try and get on top of my admin." So I've been doing that, which is, I guess, I don't know, a, a little bit easier.
• 7:34
  Tina Strachan: It's just been easier, so I've felt like I haven't been so busy.
• 7:38
  Tina Strachan: But then, you know what?
• 7:39
  Tina Strachan: I read something the other day about people who write every day, which I normally do.
• 7:44
  Tina Strachan: I do normally write every day.
• 7:45
  Tina Strachan: I've done it for a really long time, and then I realized that I haven't really been doing that, um, over the last few weeks.
• 7:50
  Tina Strachan: Like, I've l- really just been like,"Okay,"'cause the next piece that I'm gonna get stuck into is quite a full-on one, and so I know I'm gonna- Mm.
• 7:57
  Tina Strachan: Mm get super hyper-focused on that, and it won't, it won't leave me.
• 8:01
  Tina Strachan: So I thought,"No, no, just maybe take a little break." Um, so I thought that w- was going to be a good idea, and it probably is a good idea.
• 8:08
  Tina Strachan: But I read this thing the other day about Stephen King and how he writes, and...
• 8:13
  Tina Strachan: 'cause he does, like, 2,000 words a day app- apparently.
• 8:17
  Tina Strachan: 2,000 words a day every day.
• 8:18
  Tina Strachan: Doesn't, doesn't matter.
• 8:19
  Tina Strachan: 2,000 words a day.
• 8:21
  Tina Strachan: And they were talking about how that affects, uh, your brain and the processes of it being, um, similar to sports people.
• 8:29
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 8:29
  Tina Strachan: So, like, the feeling and the...
• 8:31
  Tina Strachan: Everything that his, that his brain is receiving from writing every day and completing this task is similar to that of athletes and...
• 8:38
  Tina Strachan: who are training every day, and that feeling of there's endorphins and there's dopamine and all that sort of thing that they're getting every day, and it's, it's sort of ki- it's kind of addictive, and it's just part of what they do.
• 8:49
  Natasha Rai: So, so is he just...
• 8:50
  Natasha Rai: Did it say that he's working on, like, a project at a time, or just as long as he gets 2,000 words down it doesn't matter?
• 8:56
  Tina Strachan: Uh, yeah, he's just as long as he gets 2,000 words out.
• 8:58
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 8:59
  Tina Strachan: I'd say he's probably always working on a project, right?
• 9:01
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 9:02
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 9:02
  Tina Strachan: He's just bashing those...
• 9:04
  Tina Strachan: Not bashing the books out, but they're definitely still coming.
• 9:07
  Tina Strachan: So I'd say he's probably always got something on the go.
• 9:10
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, e- I mean, even if he probably writes the words and just ditches them at some point, it's, um, just to
• 9:16
  Natasha Rai: keep up the muscle.
• 9:17
  Natasha Rai: Does, does 2,000 wo- yeah, does 2,000 words sound like a lot to you?
• 9:19
  Tina Strachan: It doesn't sound like a lot if you're Stephen King, I don't reckon.
• 9:22
  Tina Strachan: I feel like he's...
• 9:23
  Tina Strachan: That's his, this is his full-time job.
• 9:25
  Tina Strachan: Yeah,
• 9:25
  Natasha Rai: that's true
• 9:26
  Tina Strachan: I don't know.
• 9:27
  Tina Strachan: 2,000 words is like...
• 9:28
  Tina Strachan: 'Cause sometimes I can do, 2,000 words pretty quickly, but that's on a good, like, flowy day, and I've got the time to do it.
• 9:35
  Tina Strachan: But then, you know, sometimes you can do 200 words in that same time because it just didn't flow.
• 9:41
  Tina Strachan: And surely, yeah, surely, uh, uh, yeah, it's interesting, isn't it?
• 9:46
  Tina Strachan: You know, so 2,000 words, maybe it's 2,000 new words a day, and then- Mm-hmm because we all know with edits and stuff, like that's gonna...
• 9:52
  Tina Strachan: Every time he has to edit a book, which, I don't know, do you reckon Stephen King has to do much editing?
• 9:57
  Tina Strachan: Do you reckon there's any editor out there that, that's like,"I'm just gonna send all this structural editing feedback back to him," or do you think he can probably-
• 10:05
  Natasha Rai: Surely.
• 10:05
  Natasha Rai: Like, surely
• 10:06
  Tina Strachan: write?
• 10:06
  Natasha Rai: Because- Do
• 10:07
  Tina Strachan: you reckon he's just got it nailed though, and no one's really questioning him?
• 10:10
  Natasha Rai: Well, I think if you write like he does, surely your first draft is actually like someone else's, like, version of a fifth draft.
• 10:18
  Natasha Rai: Like, even the book- Oh, surely comes out initially would be- Mm, Of a high...
• 10:21
  Natasha Rai: But I've noticed that about my work, like-
• 10:24
  Tina Strachan: Mm,
• 10:24
  Natasha Rai: mm what I've produced as a zero draft isn't- Yeah it's, it stinks, but it's not as stinky as- Kind of- as it used to be years ago.
• 10:31
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, yeah.
• 10:32
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 10:32
  Tina Strachan: No, he would, he would produce some high quality work, and I'd say the editing is...
• 10:36
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, no, I don't think anyone's probably telling him to change his storyline anyway.
• 10:39
  Natasha Rai: But, but don't you think no matter how big you get, wouldn't you want to be edited properly?
• 10:46
  Natasha Rai: I'm not saying he's not edited properly, but wouldn't you want- Yeah an editor to be like,"You know what?"
• 10:49
  Tina Strachan: Oh, surely.
• 10:50
  Natasha Rai: I'm gonna, I'm gonna really make this the best possible work," even if you are Stephen King.
• 10:55
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 10:55
  Tina Strachan: Oh, and surely just to catch things'cause we're...
• 10:58
  Tina Strachan: he's only human and-
• 11:00
  Natasha Rai: Yeah
• 11:00
  Tina Strachan: you know, we all, like, make mistakes or-
• 11:02
  Natasha Rai: Exactly
• 11:03
  Tina Strachan: you know?
• 11:04
  Tina Strachan: I guess it's their job to sort of vibe what's happening out in the world as well, so you know, may- he could maybe be touching on some things that they don't really want to.
• 11:15
  Natasha Rai: Mm.
• 11:16
  Tina Strachan: I don't know.
• 11:16
  Tina Strachan: I'm just making suggestions, but, you know, that's, that's what their job is, I suppose.
• 11:19
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, surely.
• 11:20
  Tina Strachan: Surely.
• 11:20
  Tina Strachan: I, I would love to know.
• 11:22
  Tina Strachan: Let's find out who his editor is and get in
• 11:23
  Natasha Rai: touch.
• 11:23
  Natasha Rai: Exactly.
• 11:24
  Natasha Rai: Well, I mean, it's-
• 11:25
  Tina Strachan: Or
• 11:25
  Natasha Rai: her i've heard Richard Flanagan speak, and he's been with his editor/publisher for 30 years.
• 11:32
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 11:32
  Natasha Rai: And he trusts her so much, and I've heard him say that, and so I think he's really aware that- I don't know, she e- edits him differently now, but he obviously trusts her to do it,
• 11:43
  Tina Strachan: yeah.
• 11:44
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 11:44
  Tina Strachan: That's That What a beautiful relationship to have someone- I know to work with someone for 30 years.
• 11:48
  Tina Strachan: I know.
• 11:48
  Tina Strachan: That's amazing.
• 11:50
  Tina Strachan: What I was saying- Oh, yes in the 2000 words No, no, 2000 words today is that it is like for him s- it's a muscle memory and, like, strengthening his muscle and working his muscles and like any other athlete would be training.
• 12:00
  Tina Strachan: And, um, but then it went on to say, so we- as any peak athlete, if they have a week off of any training, which I don't know if they would do that that often, but may- you know, maybe back it up a bit.
• 12:13
  Tina Strachan: But if they have any time off, it's extra super hard to get your muscles back into it- Mm like that following week.
• 12:18
  Tina Strachan: And so I was like,"Oh, crap.
• 12:20
  Tina Strachan: I've, I've sort of not ridden very much for a couple of weeks.
• 12:24
  Tina Strachan: I hope it's not gonna be, a backfire on me." Next week, but
• 12:26
  Natasha Rai: yeah.
• 12:27
  Tina Strachan: But we'll see.
• 12:27
  Tina Strachan: I'll let you know next time,'cause, um, I've sort of already made the plan in my head.
• 12:31
  Tina Strachan: Okay, tomorrow morning I'm getting up and I'm starting again, which is kind of exciting as well.
• 12:36
  Tina Strachan: It
• 12:36
  Natasha Rai: is exciting, yeah.
• 12:36
  Tina Strachan: To get stuck back into it.
• 12:37
  Tina Strachan: So we would talk about a couple things today, won't we, Tash?
• 12:40
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 12:40
  Tina Strachan: And, um, the first one I guess that we wanted to talk about was book boxes.
• 12:46
  Natasha Rai: Yes.
• 12:47
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 12:47
  Tina Strachan: Tell me, Tina.
• 12:48
  Tina Strachan: As in promotional boxes.
• 12:48
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 12:48
  Tina Strachan: Yes, tell
• 12:49
  Natasha Rai: me.
• 12:50
  Tina Strachan: So, for those I guess that don't know what I guess a p- like a promotional book box is, so that's not, you know, the book boxes that are subscriptions that you can apply for and you get delivered, but promotional book boxes which some publishers will create for some books.
• 13:04
  Tina Strachan: And, um, I, it came to mind because I received a really beautiful book box, um, in over the last week from Penguin Random House, and it's for a book called Protector of Beyond by Shara Colette.
• 13:17
  Tina Strachan: And you haven't seen this, have you, Tash?
• 13:18
  Tina Strachan: No,
• 13:18
  Natasha Rai: I
• 13:18
  Tina Strachan: haven't.
• 13:19
  Tina Strachan: I'm going to show you.
• 13:20
  Tina Strachan: Look, look how cool this is.
• 13:22
  Natasha Rai: Oh my gosh.
• 13:23
  Natasha Rai: That is so striking.
• 13:25
  Tina Strachan: I know.
• 13:25
  Tina Strachan: Isn't it beautiful?
• 13:26
  Tina Strachan: So Protector
• 13:28
  Natasha Rai: of
• 13:28
  Tina Strachan: Beyond.
• 13:28
  Natasha Rai: Oh, sorry.
• 13:29
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 13:29
  Natasha Rai: 'Cause I just saw Okay.
• 13:30
  Natasha Rai: For people who cannot see, because obviously this is-
• 13:32
  Tina Strachan: Oh
• 13:32
  Natasha Rai: a podcast Tina is holding up what looks like the size of a Is it a shoebox size or a bit bigger?
• 13:38
  Natasha Rai: Uh,
• 13:38
  Tina Strachan: it's a little bit smaller.
• 13:40
  Natasha Rai: Smaller.
• 13:40
  Natasha Rai: Oh, okay.
• 13:41
  Natasha Rai: And it's this amazing image of a young person riding what looks like a, a wolf?
• 13:48
  Natasha Rai: It is incredibly striking, because on the top is the name of the book and the author, and when Tina turned it over, I could see on the flap the actual wolf, which is just amazing.
• 13:58
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 13:58
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 13:58
  Natasha Rai: And
• 13:58
  Tina Strachan: it's beautiful, these deep maroons and reds- Mm-hmm and all those sorts of things.
• 14:02
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 14:02
  Tina Strachan: And yeah, so, so Protector of Beyond, it's the first book in a series, a middle grade series, a fantasy.
• 14:10
  Tina Strachan: It's very cool.
• 14:11
  Tina Strachan: So it's a promotional bo- box, obviously, that which they send to...
• 14:14
  Tina Strachan: They can send to, like, Bookstagrammers like, if...
• 14:17
  Tina Strachan: we're fort- I was fortunate enough to get one of these boxes as well.
• 14:20
  Tina Strachan: And, um, oh, I'll open it for you.
• 14:23
  Tina Strachan: Sorry, there's gonna be all these weird noises, which I'll try and edit out.
• 14:25
  Tina Strachan: But so it's even all printed on the inside.
• 14:27
  Tina Strachan: Oh, in the
• 14:28
  Natasha Rai: inside it says- Yeah"Welcome to Beyond.
• 14:30
  Natasha Rai: If you spark, you fight." Great.
• 14:33
  Tina Strachan: I know.
• 14:34
  Tina Strachan: How exciting is that?
• 14:35
  Tina Strachan: Like, honestly, they, they have just done a really great job of hyping it just with the words and the visuals and everything.
• 14:41
  Tina Strachan: We are working on our YouTube channel, aren't we, Tash?
• 14:43
  Tina Strachan: So soon- Yes people will actually be able to see this.
• 14:44
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 14:46
  Tina Strachan: Anyway, so, so book boxes, they look beautiful on the outside, they can look beautiful on the outside, and then they fill it with lots of cool stuff on the inside depending on what the book's about, so they can really theme it and have a lot of fun with it.
• 14:55
  Tina Strachan: For instance, Shara, so I've got this beautiful arc which isn't Like, it's black and it's got this beautiful- Mm-hmm gold writing on it, but that's not what the book cover is gonna be.
• 15:02
  Tina Strachan: That's not gonna be the final
• 15:03
  Natasha Rai: cover, right?
• 15:04
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, okay.
• 15:04
  Tina Strachan: No.
• 15:05
  Tina Strachan: And I've got Because they are all these different, um, characters in there, so kind of like different guards.
• 15:11
  Tina Strachan: So kind of like different houses in Harry Potter, there's all these different guards.
• 15:14
  Tina Strachan: But anyway, I'm going into the book heaps now just because I'm super excited about it, and you get these little cards which tell you, Oh what guard you're in.
• 15:21
  Tina Strachan: And, um, look, there was some other stuff, like a tattoo as well, and, um, some glow sticks- Oh and there was some fairy floss in there, but the kids have already eaten that.
• 15:28
  Tina Strachan: So, so that's But so you can have lots of fun with it and really theme it, and put little bits of food or, you know, those sort of fun stickers and things like that in there.
• 15:39
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, so super fun and a really great way of, promoting a book,
• 15:44
  Natasha Rai: are book boxes kind of more used for certain types of books, like middle grade or YA, or d- have you seen them across different age groups, like adults and-
• 15:54
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, I've seen them across.
• 15:55
  Natasha Rai: Okay.
• 15:56
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 15:56
  Tina Strachan: So I guess obviously not everyone gets a book box, so it is very special when, um, your publisher has gone, not to the effort of it, but to the effort of producing it and, and I guess chosen the book f- to have a box that comes with it.
• 16:08
  Tina Strachan: And I guess it depends on what the book's about.
• 16:10
  Tina Strachan: Like, this, uh, book lends itself to all these fun sort of things as well.
• 16:14
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 16:15
  Tina Strachan: I think we spoke about Rebecca Armitage as well had a, had a beautiful box for The Heir Apparent because it was sent to Tasmania, it came with, like, beautiful Tasmanian honey and, um- Oh, wow a little tiara.
• 16:25
  Tina Strachan: Like a little tiara.
• 16:26
  Tina Strachan: Oh, because it's
• 16:26
  Natasha Rai: about the royals, right?
• 16:28
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 16:28
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 16:28
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, and some tea and, little bits and pieces like that, so lots of fun obviously not every book can have one...
• 16:34
  Tina Strachan: but, I have heard of people creating their own.
• 16:37
  Tina Strachan: And, um, some self-pub, self-published authors do this quite a lot, but, um, there's no reason why you couldn't do it, uh, yourself- Exactly.
• 16:44
  Tina Strachan: Exactly uh, to help.
• 16:45
  Tina Strachan: There'd be lots of fun things.
• 16:47
  Tina Strachan: What would you put in your book box, Tash?
• 16:49
  Natasha Rai: I was just thinking about this.
• 16:51
  Natasha Rai: I think I would have maybe some, like, a, like a little coin- Oh but I'd have to get them, like, made.
• 17:00
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 17:00
  Natasha Rai: Like, with some different things on it.
• 17:02
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 17:02
  Natasha Rai: And I think I'd have some kind of like, like a cocktail mix.
• 17:07
  Tina Strachan: Ooh,
• 17:08
  Natasha Rai: yeah.
• 17:08
  Natasha Rai: Or like a s- or like a warming spicy tea that people could drink- Yeah while they were- Oh yeah, reading it.
• 17:14
  Tina Strachan: That's nice.
• 17:14
  Tina Strachan: I think any of those bits and pieces that you can enjoy while you're actually reading the book to make the whole- Mm experience even-
• 17:22
  Natasha Rai: Yeah
• 17:22
  Tina Strachan: better.
• 17:23
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, that's exciting.
• 17:24
  Tina Strachan: Yes, this is very exciting.
• 17:25
  Tina Strachan: I can come up with lots of things.
• 17:26
  Natasha Rai: With Shara's book when is it out?
• 17:28
  Natasha Rai: Like, how far in advance do you get these book
• 17:30
  Tina Strachan: boxes?
• 17:30
  Tina Strachan: Right.
• 17:31
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 17:31
  Tina Strachan: So her book is out in September, so what are we now?
• 17:33
  Tina Strachan: July.
• 17:34
  Tina Strachan: So a couple of months beforehand.
• 17:35
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 17:35
  Tina Strachan: And I think that's...
• 17:36
  Tina Strachan: uh, it also works for, I guess, Bookstagrammers or people who might promote it, then it gives them the time and the opportunity to read the book, but also to- That's right You know, post the images about it.
• 17:48
  Tina Strachan: It gives them something else to to use for content, I guess, as well.
• 17:52
  Tina Strachan: 'Cause normally arcs will go out to- Mm pre-readers, like our Bookstagram community and promotions a couple of months beforehand.
• 17:59
  Tina Strachan: So that process would normally happen.
• 18:01
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 18:01
  Tina Strachan: But now it's...
• 18:02
  Tina Strachan: but sometimes you can just pair it with a few little bits and pieces just to, just to make it a little bit more fun.
• 18:08
  Natasha Rai: Give it a bit of pizzazz.
• 18:10
  Tina Strachan: Speaking of promoting books and, especially new books and debut books we were...
• 18:14
  Tina Strachan: we wanted to have a little chat today about- an article recently that was published in The Guardian.
• 18:20
  Tina Strachan: And it's just created a bit of chat, I guess, in the community- Yeah hasn't it, so it was about Well, the title was Australia Is Publishing Books Too Quickly- Mm and Everyone Is Losing Out.
• 18:30
  Natasha Rai: Mm.
• 18:31
  Tina Strachan: Um, it's by Katrina Menzies Pike.
• 18:33
  Tina Strachan: And yeah, I think it just, it kind of spurred a few other little conversations and articles and things, um, around that.
• 18:41
  Tina Strachan: And I guess the, the just the overall gist of the conversation is that a lot of books are being published.
• 18:48
  Tina Strachan: I don't know, like, we Who knows what too many books is?
• 18:51
  Tina Strachan: We're not, not too sure, or how quickly.
• 18:53
  Tina Strachan: But yeah, just the idea that, um, there's so many books being published at the moment, and it's just making it hard to find, some shelf space in a bookstore for your book.
• 19:05
  Tina Strachan: And but then also that they're then- moving on from that bookshelf fairly quickly as well- Mm um, if they're not bought.
• 19:13
  Natasha Rai: I think it's just interesting how these things, these trends change so fast in and of themselves.
• 19:20
  Natasha Rai: Like, it felt like it wasn't that long ago that we were talking about how they're, like they're not taking on too many new books, they're not taking on too many new authors, and that it's, they're going with authors who are known and can sell, and authors who are what we call mid lists, like you have decent sales but you're not a bestseller are not getting picked up.
• 19:40
  Natasha Rai: And now we've swung the other way apparently, that- Mm there's too many books and there's too many authors- Mm and everything's so fast.
• 19:46
  Natasha Rai: Mm.
• 19:47
  Natasha Rai: I guess for me, I was had more questions than anything.
• 19:52
  Natasha Rai: Like, like you said what are too many books?
• 19:55
  Natasha Rai: And, uh, what would be the Like I What's the point of it, if that is a strategy that's happening?
• 20:01
  Natasha Rai: Like- Mm because publishers also need to make money.
• 20:04
  Natasha Rai: So are they just publishing and publishing with the hope that one or two will somehow become some kind of bestseller that will just pay for the rest?
• 20:13
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 20:13
  Natasha Rai: And if that's the case, why not just target your effort into one or two and help them and support them become- Mm maybe not bestsellers, but get them out everywhere?
• 20:23
  Natasha Rai: I don't know.
• 20:24
  Natasha Rai: I'm not a publisher, so I don't really understand some of these trends or what the thinking might be behind it, but-
• 20:30
  Tina Strachan: Yeah
• 20:30
  Natasha Rai: it, it just had raised more questions for me than anything.
• 20:34
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 20:34
  Tina Strachan: But you would i, yeah, I agree.
• 20:35
  Tina Strachan: I guess there's so many variables as well and, and it's just impossible to tell.
• 20:39
  Tina Strachan: I wonder if it's more I was just thinking then, is it more that it's not that there's too many books being published, it's just that there's less readers and there's less bookstores?
• 20:47
  Tina Strachan: Could that actually be what the-
• 20:49
  Natasha Rai: Maybe
• 20:49
  Tina Strachan: what the situation is?
• 20:50
  Tina Strachan: 'Cause, you know, especially, you know, with children, we are losing our readers and and we know that we're losing our independent bookstores, and even our big chain bookstores, close some of their stores down.
• 21:02
  Tina Strachan: So, you know, perhaps that's more of the case so it's being felt even more.
• 21:07
  Natasha Rai: Yes.
• 21:07
  Natasha Rai: And the interesting thing again about that is I know this is a very specific mention, but, um, in Sydney we've just had a new independent bookstore open- Ooh,
• 21:17
  Tina Strachan: wow
• 21:17
  Natasha Rai: in a time when all these things are happening.
• 21:19
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 21:19
  Natasha Rai: It's called Rose Red.
• 21:20
  Natasha Rai: I'm actually gonna go and say hello next weekend.
• 21:23
  Natasha Rai: But they just It's, it's two people who I think are, like, full-time school teachers, and they've- Mm managed to open this bookshop, and they're really making it very community focused.
• 21:34
  Natasha Rai: So- Mm they're doing events.
• 21:36
  Natasha Rai: Um, they had a big launch party, which sadly I couldn't go to.
• 21:40
  Natasha Rai: But it just It made me feel so motivated, inspired, and happy- Mm, mm that someone's taking- What feels like a really big risk.
• 21:49
  Natasha Rai: Mm-hmm.
• 21:49
  Natasha Rai: So yes, all of this stuff is happening, and also there are examples like this one that are bucking the trend, like- Yeah going,"Well, you know what?
• 21:58
  Natasha Rai: We can make this work."
• 22:00
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 22:00
  Tina Strachan: And
• 22:00
  Natasha Rai: I think it is community that-
• 22:03
  Tina Strachan: I was just going to say, I think, do you think the key thing there is that it's about community?
• 22:08
  Tina Strachan: It's not just a bookshop with-
• 22:10
  Natasha Rai: Yes.
• 22:10
  Natasha Rai: Oh, my God books on
• 22:11
  Tina Strachan: the shelves
• 22:12
  Natasha Rai: I just had this, like, light bulb moment.
• 22:14
  Natasha Rai: Maybe the disconnect is, like, publishers are treating books like- a like a mass produced product like olive oil or, I don't know you know, like tinned goods, like where you just stack them- Mm or you just keep putting out different brands and...
• 22:30
  Natasha Rai: But actually, what's actually happening is a lot of people know, m- might know their local bookshop or go in there more than once or twice a year.
• 22:39
  Natasha Rai: Mm.
• 22:39
  Natasha Rai: And they have a conversation with people in the bookshop.
• 22:42
  Natasha Rai: Like, both the bookshops that are near me, every time I've gone in there, people are talking to the booksellers.
• 22:48
  Natasha Rai: Like, they're talking about- Mm"What do you think of this author?" and,"I've heard of that," and,"What do you..." So there's...
• 22:53
  Natasha Rai: That is happening.
• 22:55
  Natasha Rai: Mm.
• 22:55
  Natasha Rai: And regardless of whether you publish 50 books a week or 10 books a week, the booksellers know, and they are putting things out there that they love.
• 23:03
  Natasha Rai: So- Mm it's not...
• 23:05
  Natasha Rai: I, I, I think maybe that could be a disconnect.
• 23:07
  Natasha Rai: Like, the publishers and, You know what?
• 23:10
  Natasha Rai: I actually don't know, but it just felt like a light bulb moment where I'm like- Yeah.
• 23:13
  Tina Strachan: I guess there's a few different ways of looking
• 23:16
  Natasha Rai: at it.
• 23:16
  Natasha Rai: And I, and I- Yeah, like obviously if you're going to Big W or Target, like, you're probably not gonna be talking to someone.
• 23:17
  Natasha Rai: Mm.
• 23:17
  Natasha Rai: And in that case, you're probably buying books from authors you know really well.
• 23:24
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 23:24
  Natasha Rai: And that's great, because there's a market for that too.
• 23:27
  Natasha Rai: But maybe if you are someone who wants to read a bit differently or widely or wants the recommendations, you're, you're probably gonna ask, right?
• 23:35
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 23:35
  Tina Strachan: I think so.
• 23:37
  Tina Strachan: So it's more than just the book or the product, like if we call- Mm if we talk about it like it's a product and...
• 23:42
  Tina Strachan: But yeah, definitely I guess in those deep discounts, it's, it is, it's a product on a shelf like everything else, and that's just how they're designed.
• 23:49
  Tina Strachan: But I love that there's a new bookshop opening.
• 23:51
  Tina Strachan: That just gives me the shivers.
• 23:52
  Tina Strachan: That's so amazing.
• 23:54
  Tina Strachan: Because it is, yeah, it is so much more about the community and the books and the feelings that they're being they're bringing to the reader.
• 24:00
  Tina Strachan: And you know, this article, this particular article I guess that's started this conversation recently is it did talk, um, about that, and publishers wanting to, have the time and the space to pour into every single book, I guess, and, and making sure that the books find their ways into the hands of the right readers and, it's, it is a business.
• 24:19
  Tina Strachan: Like every business, it's trying to make money, and they've gotta find ways of doing it, and especially we know in this climate with, you can't start increasing the price of books.
• 24:26
  Tina Strachan: People can't...
• 24:27
  Tina Strachan: They're struggling to pay for fuel and food, And it has become a luxury item.
• 24:30
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, I, I agree it's, it's more than just the book, isn't it?
• 24:33
  Tina Strachan: It's about the community and, and the feeling and the, the vibe and getting people together.
• 24:38
  Tina Strachan: And that's what I always think about when, you know, I think about I-'cause I've always had these fantasies of opening a bookstore, which I know lots of people probably do.
• 24:44
  Tina Strachan: Oh, me too.
• 24:44
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 24:46
  Tina Strachan: But it's not.
• 24:46
  Tina Strachan: It's actually- And like I've gone a long way down that thought path to the point where it's like how many books You know, my husband's like,"Well, how many books would you have to sell in a day to, to, you know, make it worthwhile?" And I'm like,"Oh, God, I didn't even think about actually the math." No, but I, I I mean, I did, but I didn't I was like,"Oh, but it's actually not about that." It's about hosting book launches.
• 25:08
  Tina Strachan: It's about having a place where kids can come and read.
• 25:09
  Tina Strachan: It's about having a place where adults can come and have a book club and have a discussion about books and, you know, you gotta sell some coffee so people can sit there and read and have coffee.
• 25:17
  Tina Strachan: And it was funny when I thought about it, all the things that I thought and had these plans for this bookshop, very few of them were actually about selling a book on a shelf.
• 25:27
  Tina Strachan: I was like,"Oh, don't Actually being at the till and selling a book on the shelf, that's, that was actually the smallest part of-
• 25:32
  Natasha Rai: Mm
• 25:33
  Tina Strachan: of Even though it's fundamental, isn't it?
• 25:36
  Tina Strachan: But it's about having readers and, and yes, you've gotta sell books off the shelf, but it's about And you'll do that by encouraging that community and-
• 25:43
  Natasha Rai: Community
• 25:43
  Tina Strachan: hub
• 25:43
  Natasha Rai: yeah Exactly.
• 25:44
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 25:45
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 25:45
  Tina Strachan: Oh, yes, we need more bookstores.
• 25:47
  Tina Strachan: Okay, let's chat about this more.
• 25:48
  Tina Strachan: Tash, we might be able to start something together.
• 25:50
  Tina Strachan: But but it is interesting because, um, she did In that article they did chat to Jennifer Mills, who is the incoming chair of the Australian Society of Authors, and what she What they quoted her as saying is,"Authors are really reliant on community, on word of mouth recommendation, and the authentic enthusiasm of independent booksellers who hand sell books to readers." So it certainly- Mm although, although the article was kinda saying books coming out thick and fast, they're leaving the shelves very quickly you know, it is She did bring it back around to-
• 26:22
  Natasha Rai: Yeah to,
• 26:23
  Tina Strachan: Emphasize exactly what we just said.
• 26:24
  Natasha Rai: And also, I don't know if it's in that article itself, but I have read something.
• 26:30
  Natasha Rai: Uh, yeah, so it's something around the amount of time it actually takes for a book to get into someone's hands because of- Mm.
• 26:36
  Natasha Rai: Word of mouth or a book club- Yeah or a recommendation.
• 26:40
  Tina Strachan: They quoted some researchers who looked- Mm-hmm into books and, um, how long I guess they were spending on the shelves.
• 26:45
  Tina Strachan: And they said that new titles usually get three months on- Okay, three months bookshop shelves.
• 26:49
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, okay.
• 26:50
  Tina Strachan: If the title doesn't shift within that window, it disappears, usually returned or remaindered, in some cases never to be seen again, which s- sounds not great.
• 27:00
  Natasha Rai: Well, it's Yeah.
• 27:00
  Natasha Rai: And- Yeah, what are your
• 27:01
  Tina Strachan: thoughts
• 27:01
  Natasha Rai: on
• 27:01
  Tina Strachan: that?
• 27:02
  Natasha Rai: Well, then it becomes really difficult because, you wanna make it easy for people.
• 27:06
  Natasha Rai: A- and again, I'm If I was a bookseller, I m- probably would have a totally different answer to this, because there is the physical shelf space issue.
• 27:15
  Natasha Rai: But if someone comes in and they buy a book based on a recommendation by a bookseller, say, and they go away and they read it a month later'cause they, they've got a massive to-read pile like most of us.
• 27:24
  Natasha Rai: And then by the time they read it and they're like,"Oh my God, I love this book," and they tell all their friends, and then their friends go in and the book's gone- Mm and it's actually a challenge because you have to order it online or something, a lot of people aren't gonna worry about it.
• 27:37
  Natasha Rai: Like, unless the recommendation or the person who's recommended it goes,"You have to read this book.
• 27:41
  Natasha Rai: It will change your life." Like, most people are gonna be like- Mm"Oh, well, it's gone."
• 27:45
  Tina Strachan: I'll pick up something else.
• 27:46
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 27:46
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 27:46
  Tina Strachan: I wonder, it'd be interesting to know how many people, how many readers are actually reading a book within the first three months of it coming out.
• 27:52
  Tina Strachan: I don't know- Exactly if I've looked into that.
• 27:53
  Tina Strachan: Like, like, I don't know if I ever have.
• 27:53
  Tina Strachan: I, I- it probably takes me that long to hear about it, to know about it, and then-
• 28:03
  Natasha Rai: Exactly
• 28:03
  Tina Strachan: to go and find it eventually maybe on the shelf.
• 28:05
  Tina Strachan: And if it's just not-
• 28:06
  Natasha Rai: Yeah
• 28:06
  Tina Strachan: there, I might actually just not even remember it, like you, like you were saying.
• 28:10
  Tina Strachan: Exactly.
• 28:10
  Tina Strachan: Um, which is interesting, isn't it?
• 28:12
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 28:12
  Tina Strachan: But like you said-
• 28:12
  Natasha Rai: And, and I think Yeah, I was gonna say that.
• 28:14
  Natasha Rai: I think unless you're a fan and it's an author who's written- Mm several books, like a Stephen King- y- yeah, you're right.
• 28:22
  Natasha Rai: You probably wouldn't get to the book in the first three months.
• 28:25
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 28:26
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 28:26
  Tina Strachan: So that just sounds We're trying W- we really didn't wanna sound depre- depressing about this.
• 28:31
  Tina Strachan: And I guess, I guess it's just, it is a reality though, isn't it?
• 28:35
  Tina Strachan: And you work sometimes in a bookshelf, don't you, Tash?
• 28:38
  Tina Strachan: Yes, I do.
• 28:38
  Tina Strachan: So you know what it's like.
• 28:39
  Tina Strachan: You know that there is, there's no just empty space on those shelves.
• 28:43
  Tina Strachan: It is chock-full.
• 28:44
  Tina Strachan: And- Mm-hmm when a space opens up, another one has to go in.
• 28:47
  Tina Strachan: And, uh, the person the, who is actually buying the books for their- Mm bookstore needs to decide,"Well, I need to actually make space now,'cause I don't have space.
• 28:56
  Tina Strachan: So I have to send some back." And look, that could be in the first three months, but it, you know, it could be giving it a bit longer than that.
• 29:03
  Tina Strachan: I'm sure every book- And every title has its own, sort of merits.
• 29:07
  Tina Strachan: If it's maybe sold a few earlier but not for a little while, they're not gonna automatically just send it back.
• 29:11
  Tina Strachan: They might think,"Oh, I'll give it another couple of months." But it is the reality that they do just have to make space for them- Mm to, um, and make space for new books coming in.
• 29:19
  Tina Strachan: How they choose I think is very difficult, and I'd hate to be in that position.
• 29:24
  Natasha Rai: Okay, so, so that everyone isn't so depressed listening to this what would you suggest to say Actually, let's do, like, let's find a couple of suggestions for readers, and then suggestions for writers- Who might either, A, have a contract or who are thinking about self-publication or self-publishing- Mm and how they can get their book out there.
• 29:44
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 29:45
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 29:46
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, look, I think it is a it's a reality.
• 29:49
  Tina Strachan: I D- have you though actually, before we do, have you actually experienced that yourself, Tash?
• 29:53
  Tina Strachan: Did you notice that?
• 29:54
  Tina Strachan: I noticed with my first book, and it went into Big W, it was a very It was kind of like once it was, it had its time and it was gone.
• 30:02
  Tina Strachan: And I've no- now since that's happened I've been looking at other authors that I know, and even multi-publish, big name authors, like I, it, I see it come in and I see it go.
• 30:13
  Tina Strachan: And yeah, it, so that definitely is a thing.
• 30:15
  Tina Strachan: But I found with the smaller stores they, the books have sort of, my books have been hanging around a bit longer, so I definitely think it's those bigger chains- Mm where it's a bit faster.
• 30:24
  Tina Strachan: Have you no- have you noticed that?
• 30:26
  Tina Strachan: So,
• 30:26
  Natasha Rai: so, so mine never made it into a Big W.
• 30:28
  Natasha Rai: It was always only sold in like, bookshops as opposed to, like, department stores.
• 30:35
  Natasha Rai: Most of them have gone, have disappeared.
• 30:37
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 30:37
  Natasha Rai: Um, so there's a cou- like one or two maybe copies every now and then I might see, but most of them have gone, but it is over a year.
• 30:44
  Natasha Rai: Mm.
• 30:45
  Natasha Rai: Having said that, it is absolutely delightful because I'm still getting, not a lot, but every now and then a message from a reader going,"I just read it."
• 30:52
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 30:53
  Natasha Rai: Mm.
• 30:53
  Natasha Rai: So I'm like,"This is really cool that-" Yeah over a year later it's still-
• 31:07
  Tina Strachan: Kind of people- Mm mentioning it or recommending it.
• 31:07
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 31:07
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 31:07
  Tina Strachan: Um, and you know what's always...
• 31:07
  Tina Strachan: It's still in libraries.
• 31:07
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 31:07
  Tina Strachan: That's a thing.
• 31:07
  Tina Strachan: Our books are still in libraries, and that's- Yes a very important and positive note, is libraries are a fantastic way of your books getting out, out there.
• 31:16
  Tina Strachan: And, and you know what?
• 31:17
  Tina Strachan: It's free for people, so that's- Exactly even better.
• 31:20
  Tina Strachan: Exactly.
• 31:20
  Tina Strachan: And, you know, with our ELR/PLR payments that we get from publishing a book now, um, that goes into the libraries.
• 31:30
  Tina Strachan: We still...
• 31:31
  Tina Strachan: authors still get benefited off from that.
• 31:33
  Tina Strachan: And I find...
• 31:35
  Tina Strachan: And schools as well, so school libraries are also a big thing.
• 31:38
  Tina Strachan: So I have found, uh, I guess doing events and this all comes back to community as well, doesn't it?
• 31:44
  Tina Strachan: Doing events and actually being out in person is how I think you can shift the needle on that and- Keep selling your books,'cause your books are still around.
• 31:53
  Tina Strachan: They are still...
• 31:54
  Tina Strachan: As long as they're still in print, you can, try and book as many s- events as you can.
• 32:00
  Tina Strachan: School visits as much as you can.
• 32:02
  Tina Strachan: I'm doing a, a special episode in a couple of weeks on school visits.
• 32:06
  Tina Strachan: So, uh, tune in for that one if you're not sure how to do that or need some tips.
• 32:10
  Tina Strachan: But you know, going to school visits hitting the road, going and seeing your, your local booksellers or your booksellers and just, um, asking to pop in and doing little workshops.
• 32:21
  Tina Strachan: You know, an author talk.
• 32:22
  Tina Strachan: They'll often order in some books especially for it.
• 32:25
  Tina Strachan: I think that's- Mm a really good way of making sure that it's still staying current and still being out there.
• 32:32
  Natasha Rai: And I think that if you don't have the capacity to do a lot of those things, like events and workshops, say I think a good way to just keep your book in a shop beyond the three months is really establishing a relationship with the bookseller.
• 32:46
  Natasha Rai: And I know we've said this over and over, but it's really important.
• 32:49
  Natasha Rai: And also- It just helps the bookseller know who you are and who's around, especially if you've got a bookshop in your neighborhood or close to you.
• 32:58
  Natasha Rai: Booksellers love to say,"Our local author," yeah.
• 33:01
  Natasha Rai: Like,"This author lives locally." Mm-hmm.
• 33:02
  Natasha Rai: So you're actually helping them as well to have a way to sell your book.
• 33:07
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 33:07
  Natasha Rai: Um, and you know, and lots of booksellers are like lots of readers, as in they wanna read it all, but they can't.
• 33:14
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 33:14
  Natasha Rai: So if you go in, introduce yourself well before your book's coming out, hopefully, just so you know, y- they have a bit of time, and you can just tell them how they can sell it.
• 33:23
  Natasha Rai: You can help them.
• 33:24
  Natasha Rai: Like, you can give them the little pitch.
• 33:26
  Natasha Rai: You can tell them you're available.
• 33:28
  Natasha Rai: Um, you can I know for example, Roaring Stories, they do little quick videos of their authors for their website-
• 33:35
  Tina Strachan: Oh,
• 33:35
  Natasha Rai: that's cool um, on their Insta page.
• 33:37
  Natasha Rai: So you just, you can- Mm-hmm so just little things like that, and you can make it easy for them by asking them what would be helpful.
• 33:44
  Natasha Rai: Um, and I think a, a tip for readers is I am very ferocious when I give reading recommendations.
• 33:51
  Natasha Rai: I basically start my recommendation going,"You just have to read this.
• 33:55
  Natasha Rai: There's no other option." And then I tell them what they ha- like my friends, what they have to read, and you Nine times out of 10 they're like,"Oh, okay," and then they rush out and get it.
• 34:03
  Natasha Rai: So- I think if you really love a book and you wanna tell your friends or family about it, just be really ferocious.
• 34:10
  Natasha Rai: And you know what?
• 34:10
  Natasha Rai: Yeah You can even buy them copies as presents
• 34:13
  Tina Strachan: That's a great idea.
• 34:14
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 34:15
  Tina Strachan: And contact the author, I'm sure they would love to s- to sign it as well.
• 34:18
  Tina Strachan: Uh, really.
• 34:19
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 34:19
  Tina Strachan: They would.
• 34:19
  Tina Strachan: They would love to sign it.
• 34:20
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 34:20
  Tina Strachan: And that's Yeah, that's a great idea.
• 34:23
  Tina Strachan: And I guess for those, And I guess if you're in the midst of a book coming out soon and wanting to know how you can, help with this, publishers are so open and really like the idea of authors helping to sell the, the book, some publishing houses w- don't have They're small and they don't have publicists.
• 34:45
  Tina Strachan: So just working with them, I guess,'cause, you know- Mm-hmm all these publishers, they are doing it They're doing the job because they love books.
• 34:51
  Tina Strachan: They would love nothing more than to just- Exactly pour their heart and soul and time into every single one of them, but, they can't.
• 34:57
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 34:57
  Tina Strachan: It's, it's- Exactly everyone has deadlines.
• 34:59
  Tina Strachan: And w- just saying,"What can I do?
• 35:01
  Tina Strachan: How c- give me some tips or some advice," or,"What if I do this and this and this?" And they would love to hear that, and they can tell you how you can, be pro- proactive about the marketing or publicity- Exactly or
• 35:11
  Natasha Rai: And what they You could even go a step further if you feel confident enough, especially if you have skills like you work in events or publish marketing, or Anyway, you've got a skill about, you know, doing something.
• 35:22
  Natasha Rai: Even if your skill is,"I'm really, really shy, but I'm very confident talking to my family and friends," you can give them ideas.
• 35:29
  Natasha Rai: Like,"I don't wanna do a big event at a library, but what I can do is I can go to my local my, my kids' local rugby club and do a little thing there," or,"I can mention it to my parents' group." I don't know.
• 35:41
  Natasha Rai: Mm-hmm.
• 35:41
  Natasha Rai: There's lots and lots of ways you can get your book out there.
• 35:44
  Natasha Rai: And if you feel confident, you can present some ideas to your publisher or your publicist, and they'll can tell you,"Oh, yes.
• 35:51
  Natasha Rai: Let's do that.
• 35:52
  Natasha Rai: Let's try that.
• 35:53
  Natasha Rai: Let's do that."
• 35:54
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 35:54
  Tina Strachan: And- And'cause they have really good contacts, too.
• 35:56
  Tina Strachan: Exactly.
• 35:56
  Tina Strachan: So they might not have the time to, to work on the- Mm work on it with you, but they definitely have the contacts and can just put you in- Exactly in front of the right people as well- Exactly which is really handy.
• 36:07
  Tina Strachan: Obviously, if you're not there yet with a contract or, um, s- any of your books signed Even if you are, I think you just gotta bring everything back to remembering the why of why you're writing.
• 36:20
  Tina Strachan: Publishing is great, right?
• 36:21
  Tina Strachan: Like, it's a f- what a fun ride.
• 36:24
  Tina Strachan: How lovely to have, you know, a publishing house- Yes uh, have support you and enjoy your work so much that they actually wanna invest in you and print it.
• 36:32
  Tina Strachan: But always remembering that I was a writer long before any publisher ever saw my work or I signed any contract.
• 36:39
  Tina Strachan: And I did that with n- I wrote with no intentions of being published, just because of the pure joy of it, literal joy, you know?
• 36:48
  Tina Strachan: And I would still be doing that today anyway just because I enjoyed it.
• 36:53
  Natasha Rai: I mean, and you are, or Tina, because a lot of-
• 36:55
  Tina Strachan: Yeah
• 36:55
  Natasha Rai: your projects that you're working on you don't have a contract yet- Yeah and you don't have- Yeah yeah.
• 37:00
  Natasha Rai: So you are doing it- Yeah for the love of it.
• 37:02
  Tina Strachan: Yep, that's it.
• 37:03
  Tina Strachan: I have so many ideas I just love to write them, but they're not, they're not signed with anyone.
• 37:08
  Tina Strachan: Exactly.
• 37:08
  Tina Strachan: You know?
• 37:08
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 37:08
  Tina Strachan: It's, so it's it is just because I love it and I can't not do it, and I it is always just bringing that back and I guess just remembering that the publishing side of it is all just a nice little bonus.
• 37:19
  Tina Strachan: What do you think, Tash?
• 37:20
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 37:21
  Natasha Rai: Totally.
• 37:21
  Natasha Rai: Totally.
• 37:22
  Natasha Rai: Like, I'm writing something new as well.
• 37:24
  Natasha Rai: I have no idea about how I'll sell it or even if I can sell it, and it doesn't matter'cause I'm just- Loving it.
• 37:31
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 37:32
  Natasha Rai: It's flowing, yep.
• 37:33
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, it's the joy.
• 37:34
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 37:34
  Tina Strachan: Chase the joy.
• 37:35
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 37:35
  Tina Strachan: And yeah, just remember and then, yeah, maybe you'll get published one day,
• 37:39
  Natasha Rai: and
• 37:39
  Tina Strachan: how cool
• 37:40
  Natasha Rai: would that be?
• 37:40
  Natasha Rai: Maybe I won't, and it doesn't matter.
• 37:41
  Natasha Rai: No.
• 37:42
  Natasha Rai: 'Cause I just wanna write it.
• 37:43
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
• 37:43
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 37:44
  Tina Strachan: Yep.
• 37:44
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 37:44
  Tina Strachan: That's it, as long as it's bringing you joy.
• 37:46
  Tina Strachan: Oh, that's beautiful.
• 37:47
  Tina Strachan: Well, some If you are writing, um- Yes There seems to be lots of, uh, opportunities at the moment, Tash, to help people with their writing.
• 37:54
  Natasha Rai: Mm-hmm.
• 37:55
  Tina Strachan: Um, there was a few around.
• 37:56
  Tina Strachan: Did you wanna, um, have a chat- Yes about one of them?
• 37:58
  Natasha Rai: So the, the latest one is Oh, God, it sounds amazing.
• 38:02
  Natasha Rai: It's a partnership between Create New South Wales and Writing New South Wales, and they've just announced, it's called Stories Matter, um, and it's fellowships.
• 38:11
  Natasha Rai: I had a very quick look at the guidelines.
• 38:12
  Natasha Rai: I, I'm pretty sure you have to be a resident of New South Wales-
• 38:16
  Tina Strachan: Me too, yeah
• 38:16
  Natasha Rai: or, or, or mainly live here.
• 38:18
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 38:18
  Natasha Rai: Um, so yep, so if you're in another state, mm, sorry.
• 38:23
  Natasha Rai: But, uh, it's still an amazing opportunity.
• 38:25
  Natasha Rai: Mm-hmm.
• 38:25
  Natasha Rai: So there's, um, three categories, and I think it's 10 fellowship places in total.
• 38:30
  Natasha Rai: And so it is an emerging writer, a mid-career, and then an established writer category.
• 38:36
  Natasha Rai: And basically you get$50,000-
• 38:41
  Tina Strachan: Ooh, okay
• 38:42
  Natasha Rai: to write essentially.
• 38:43
  Natasha Rai: Mm-hmm.
• 38:43
  Natasha Rai: Or like, you know, to, to give you time so that you can have that money to be able to write.
• 38:48
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 38:48
  Natasha Rai: So go onto the Writing New South Wales website or the Create New South Wales website, and you will have You'll see the n- the application form, all the criteria.
• 38:58
  Natasha Rai: Applications close on the 27th of July.
• 39:00
  Natasha Rai: So you've still got lots of time.
• 39:02
  Tina Strachan: And it's also for illustrators and playwrights too.
• 39:05
  Natasha Rai: Oh, thank you.
• 39:05
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 39:06
  Tina Strachan: Thank you.
• 39:06
  Natasha Rai: Yep.
• 39:07
  Natasha Rai: But yeah, just check out the criteria for each category,'cause it's pretty clear what you need to have, Had published or not, depending on the category that you think you might be in.
• 39:18
  Tina Strachan: So by the time this episode goes to air, you'll still have a couple of weeks, so no excuses.
• 39:21
  Natasha Rai: Exactly.
• 39:22
  Tina Strachan: Get onto it.
• 39:22
  Natasha Rai: Exactly, yeah.
• 39:23
  Tina Strachan: And then another one that's closing also around the same time, uh, you might know a bit more about this, Tash, as well, the Wheeler Centre's program, The Next Chapter.
• 39:30
  Natasha Rai: Ah, The Next Chapter, yes.
• 39:32
  Natasha Rai: The Next Chapter is for emerging writers,
• 39:36
  Tina Strachan: Yep, so$15,000 stipend paired with a mentor to work for 12 months to progress a major writing project, and that closes on the 31st of July.
• 39:46
  Tina Strachan: So still a few weeks to- Yes, excellent get in there and check out those details.
• 39:49
  Natasha Rai: Yes.
• 39:51
  Tina Strachan: Tash, any top tips for our audience today?
• 39:55
  Natasha Rai: Oh, keep writing.
• 40:00
  Tina Strachan: That's a good one.
• 40:00
  Tina Strachan: Keep writing, and don't forget the why and the joy of it.
• 40:05
  Tina Strachan: So even- Yes though there's, you know, a lot of, negative press, I guess, at the moment, as, yes, in publishing and writing, but in the whole entire world at the moment when it comes to writing, just we do it'cause we love it.
• 40:20
  Tina Strachan: So keep doing it, and yeah, it will surely always be positive if you're doing it for those reasons.
• 40:27
  Tina Strachan: Exactly.
• 40:27
  Natasha Rai: And actually, I just wanna adapt that a little bit to say, and you don't have to write 2,000 words every single day.
• 40:32
  Tina Strachan: No, don't.
• 40:33
  Natasha Rai: Because, you know, Stephen King does it full time.
• 40:35
  Natasha Rai: But it depends.
• 40:35
  Natasha Rai: Like, that's his job.
• 40:37
  Natasha Rai: So m- most of us do not have that as our main job.
• 40:41
  Natasha Rai: No.
• 40:41
  Natasha Rai: So do what keeps you interested and keeps the joy alive.
• 40:45
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, that's a good one.
• 40:47
  Tina Strachan: Oh, I love that, Tash.
• 40:48
  Tina Strachan: So lovely talking to you again today.
• 40:49
  Tina Strachan: You
• 40:49
  Natasha Rai: too.
• 40:50
  Tina Strachan: And, um, hope you have a wonderful writing month.
• 40:53
  Tina Strachan: Maybe next month you'll say that you didn't have much on.
• 40:56
  Tina Strachan: Let's hope so.
• 40:58
  Natasha Rai: Should we make
• 40:58
  Tina Strachan: that your goal?
• 40:58
  Tina Strachan: Should we make that your goal?
• 40:59
  Natasha Rai: No.
• 41:00
  Tina Strachan: I'll-
• 41:00
  Natasha Rai: Because I've got my workshop coming up and my festival.
• 41:03
  Natasha Rai: Actually, yeah, I'll have lots of fun things to talk about next time.
• 41:05
  Natasha Rai: Oh,
• 41:05
  Tina Strachan: cool.
• 41:06
  Tina Strachan: Very exciting.
• 41:07
  Tina Strachan: All right.
• 41:07
  Tina Strachan: Uh, well, I look forward to chatting then, Tash.
• 41:09
  Natasha Rai: You too.
• 41:10
  Natasha Rai: You too.
• 41:10
  Natasha Rai: Have a good month.
• 41:10
  Natasha Rai: Bye.
• 41:11
  Natasha Rai: Bye.
• 41:11
  Speaker 5: Thank you for listening to another episode of The Book Deal Podcast.
• 41:15
  Speaker 5: If you are enjoying the pod, we'd really appreciate you following or sharing the show in your podcast directory, checking us out on Instagram and Facebook, or supporting us through our Patreon community at patreon.com/thebookdealpodcast