Latest / Psyched For Sanity / Episode 34 - You Asked, We Answered

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Episode 34 - You Asked, We Answered · Psyched For Sanity

• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to Psyched for Sanity.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: I am one of your hosts, Dr.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Tara McKelvey Parker.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a licensed clinical psychologist.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: I specialize in assessing and treating complex trauma and attachment wounds from childhood.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm one of your other hosts, Dr.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: Brendel Doss.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: I specialize in forensic psychology, trauma treatment, geriatric psychology, and assessment.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: As well as being a licensed psychologist.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I have a question for you.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: And you sh I don't know what this question is.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: She's is I'm scared always.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: I love surprising you on this podcast.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's one of the joys I have in my life.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: What?
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: Your face is so scared.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: I just said one word.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: I'm ready.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm ready now.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: What's your favorite kind of tree?
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: Doz.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: Why is that?
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's not a bad question.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's not a bad question.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a bad question.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's just the most scary.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: Random question I would ever have received.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't have a favorite tree?
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Hold on.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Let me think about that.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: I've never had to think about my favorite tree before.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: Aren't you glad I'm your friend?
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, because now I get to think about what my favorite tree is.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: So it's toggling between Oh, I love the word toggle.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: I've been using it a lot recently.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, really?
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, in therapy.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I use it like all week.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: Really?
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: That's so funny.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: We're like on the same wavelength or something.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: I like never use toggle.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_02: I've just recently really picked it up, toggling a lot.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: You like are giving it to me.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe toggle.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: Osmosis.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm toggling between like a weeping willow because I think it's kind of moody and I remember moody.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very moody.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: Always buy a body of water too.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and it's has the word weeping in it, which feels like it really fits for me.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: Why does weeping feel like it fits for you?
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: Because I weep a lot.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a weeper.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: I weep.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, in certain countries they have professional mourners.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: I could do that.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: I could do that.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Especially lately.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: The past couple years I've been weeping.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: I've been mourning.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: So the weeping willow, and then I also thought of a money tree.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because I have one of them in my office, and it was a gift, and I think that the trunk is really cool looking.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: Look how uh fun your answer was.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: And you were scared, or you were upset with the question, but that was a great answer.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate it.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want to know my favorite tree?
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: I do.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: Evergreen.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, why?
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I just love that they're always green, and I love the smell of most evergreens.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I love like like I like pine trees.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: I used to have a house with tons of pine trees, too many pine trees, like 30, 40 foot pine trees.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: I had like 10 of them, it's too many trees.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: But I just love everything about them.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: The smell, the vibe, the essence reminds me of childhood.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: When we'd go camping in different parts of Texas that were more remote, and there'd be these really tall, beautiful pine trees.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: Very quaint.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: Sounds very queen looking.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sounds great.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: Aww.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: So you've thought about this.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: You've thought about the answer to this question before.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: A hundred percent.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: This is one of my fun facts.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: This is literally something that was written down months ago.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, really?
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_02: To let you know that my favorite tree is evergreen.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I just spun it around as a question because today we are answering questions from our audience.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we're answering questions from our audience.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: So we're gonna ask each other questions and questions that we've been posed that that you guys want to know about, and we're gonna try to answer them.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna try to answer them.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna try to answer them.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna do our best.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: Hopefully they'll be easier than the tree question for Dr.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: Parker.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: It was easier than I thought it would be.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: I just that is it was I was just like what do you think I was gonna ask you?
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: I don't ever know.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: I honestly my brain went to soap.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: Why would I ask you about soap?
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because you ask random things.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: You think about random things.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, like the most random thing I could think about was soap.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: I have no questions for you about soap.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: You will.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna have questions for you about soap.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: Oh god.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: One day on the on the podcast, I'm just gonna ask you random questions.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: No, I feel so anxious right now.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: That's because that's a wave.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: I want intensity right now.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's just like a wave.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: Make you anxious the way you made me anxious.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think I did.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: I can't take responsibility for your feelings.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: Question one.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_02: You're right, boundaries.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: Boundaries.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: Emotional boundaries.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: Speaking of stress, what's the difference between Hey, nice.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, I'm ready.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: One of our human person listeners asked, What's the difference between stress and anxiety?
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: Hmm.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good question.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you didn't do it.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you to our listener for sending in that question.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, let's see.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, stress.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: I I think they can often co-occur.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: But important.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, they can often often co-occur.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: I often think about stress as being related to an external event.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: So like something is happening or some things are happening to you that seem like they're going to be hard.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it's sort of, you know, yeah, it it arises from external, external stressors or events.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: So you've got a performance or a presentation you have to get up give at work, for instance.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's going to be stressful.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so your brain's often like, oh, I have I have a lot to do.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: So that's stress.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: Anxiety to me arises based on the interpretation you make of the event.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: Your cognitive beliefs.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: So if you have a presentation at work, it is stressful, but you may feel anxious when you start interpreting that event as threatening.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I am going to do a terrible job.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: So-and-so, you know, they're gonna think I'm stupid.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: I maybe I'll lose my job, right?
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like you start catastrophizing, you start thinking in black and white terms, you start generalizing, and then it becomes anxiety.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so stress then should reduce once the external events are taken away.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas anxiety will linger.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: So stress will turn to anxiety.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's how come they often co-occur.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, when you're stressed out, what you want to do is like take things off your plate.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: If you can.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: Get support if you can, right?
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: That will generally help alleviate stress versus anxiety, you have to do a lot more work in reframing some of these cognitive distortions.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because your brain is automatically interpreting these stressful things as threatening.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so those of us with anxiety, typically that's what happens.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: That makes a lot of sense.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's what I think about.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think that anxiety also is um, I think one thing that with stress is helpful to remember is that if you are knowing that you're going through a stressful period, reminding yourself that it will end is almost helpful to like tolerate that stress.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's true.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: That there's going to be an end point because it's tied to this thing that's happening to you.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um even if it's prolonged.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I think like in general, stress and anxiety are both pretty common, pretty normal.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um and we really get to, you know, problematic anxiety when we it becomes rigid and inflexible and pervasive and starts impacting functioning.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: Impacting function, always.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: Always, always impacting functioning.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, well, you answered one of the questions from our listeners.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_02: Do you have any questions you want to ask me?
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: I well, I don't, but our listeners do.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, right?
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, question for you.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think venting is helpful?
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: Ooh, hmm.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: I this was an interesting one.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: I like this one.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, such a good question and so important to understand.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: I think my answer is going to frustrate people.
• 7:53
  unknown: Okay.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: It can be.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: I think um so if you are venting to a friend about a romantic relationship, and that friend is just listening and validating and supporting, and then once you're, I guess, done venting, you feel like a sense of peace or a calm or some type of emotional release, and you don't feel more agitated, more amped up, or more frustrated, then I would say yes, it's very helpful in that process.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: However, if you're talking to someone that is seeming to add more fuel to your fire about the situation that you're frustrated with.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: Normally we vent about things we are upset with about at some level.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um then I think it can make it worse.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: Because then you'll might find yourself after talking to this friend more angry, agitated, irritable, yeah, just more churned up emotionally.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so it can lead to more emotional distress and not a release.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not always dependent on the person um that you're talking to.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's a that's a factor, but it also really depends on if that person can be validating and just supportive of your experience, but also not just cosign all the negative beliefs that you have.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I yeah, I think you know what you're I do think the listener matters exactly what you're saying.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because for me, venting, when I think about venting, I kind of think about this sort of just like verbal, you know, just like ranting, you know, kind of thing.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um and when I do that, usually I think it's beneficial when I am sitting across from a person that I know will be validating and understanding my experience.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: So in that way I can process you know, what happened to me.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: I also think it's really helpful for organizing my thoughts because sometimes I just it, you know, I'm not like organizing a bunch of what I'm gonna say before I talk, I just talk.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then the organizing comings comes from the talking.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: It can, sure.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: For me, that's how my brain works.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but but yeah, I think like I think if if you're telling yourself the same story and you're stewing in the same emotions, and or you're sitting across from someone who's maybe not able to validate or help you think about something differently or like make some movement, maybe potentially in like, you know, I I think a good listener not only validates but also helps like you build perspective, like gives you a different viewpoint or helps you think about things in a different way.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, which is why when people come into my office to vent and they're just sort of like meh, yeah.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: I often, you know, I think I think it's fine because I I I find it to be a good opportunity to try to sort of challenge thinking, you know, or of course provide validation and empathy and and insight and and all that can I think arise from venting, but I probably wouldn't just sit there and let someone, you know, talk the the whole entire time.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, because then we don't there's no movement.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: I think venting with movement is yeah, I think that's where having a friend that can validate your experience, but not add on other negative thoughts or like you know what I mean?
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, exactly.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: There's a way to support someone, but not co-sign everything that they're like agree.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, and and if it's like particularly, if you're sitting there and you know, yes, there's I someone's like rigidly thinking about a situation in a very particular way, then I I always find it to be my job to validate and normalize and empathize and then try to shift them into thinking about it in a different way.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: Not that the way they're thinking about it is wrong, but there may be like other components here or other things we need to consider.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so we want really with venting like an emotional catharsis is how or some kind of some kind of like movement or insight.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: Oh release, yeah.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Release.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: Well, what about this?
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: We got a question from one of our um listeners.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: How do you tell if you are disassociating?
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like it is on a spectrum.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I would agree with that.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so dissociation really is a way that the brain disconnects from some kind of experience that is overwhelming, pain, it's too overwhelming or painful or threatening to process in the moment.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we can have a dissociation from our emotions.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: We can be dissociated from our environment, from our memories.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's a big one for trauma survivors.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: They don't remember things from their past or childhood.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and also, you know, dissociate from their body.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: There's lots of different ways to disconnect.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: So mild forms are really common.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: I we mentioned in the ordinary, you know, problem episode that people are sort of not present to their environment, right?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: Distracted, like actually 50% of the time.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: So these mild forms of dissociation or disconnection are really common.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: So when we, you know, drive home on autopilot, or we get really absorbed in a good book or podcast, yeah, or we kind of zone out for a second and don't know what our friend just said to us.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: Those are all dissociation or disconnection in like mild, more common ways.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then we get to more moderate where it becomes a bit more problematic.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: You're feeling foggy, you're staring off into space.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you may sort of daydream for long periods of time, you may feel numb or disconnected from yourself or your environment.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, these are more moderate forms, and then of course, we have really severe forms of dissociation, you know, where we may um lose periods of time or you know, stuff like that where it can like start really impacting memory, like your ability to encode memory, I think.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, and then I I also tend to think about dissociation, you know, I think about it in all of those ways, you know, in terms of disconnecting, right?
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: From in that way.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's an another way that people it tend to disconnect, and that's by overanalyzing.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think ruminating, overthinking.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: To me, that's a different form of dissociation, right?
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: That is actually pretty typical.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I think there's a lot to explore with that topic, so that might be something we cover, yeah, you know, but I think it's not really commonly it's not well understood.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I think um it's so easy to misunderstand a concept when it's not well understood.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: Don't understand how it applies to you, like if you're experiencing that.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: And it's yeah, it's one of those too.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: Dissociation is when when I get folks who are coming in for like ADHD testing, for instance.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, a lot of times not all the time, but a lot of, you know, mo a much of the time, like, oh, this sounds more dissociative, potentially, right?
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so then it's not really ADHD, even though you're having a lot of trouble focusing and attending, but you know, it's really because of these other this dissociation, potentially so yeah, okay.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well I'm ready.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Are you ready?
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: This one, this one's gonna be this one's I think this one'll be easy.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, maybe I don't know, yeah.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, all right.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: Next question is do you think you can diagnose someone?
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I can no.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wait, I think you can with your like you know, formal battery of uh instruments, but do you think you could based on a short reel, short video?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, oh, that's a trick question.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so it's it it it's not a question of can.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's almost the wrong question.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: Oh oh it's should a mental health professional diagnose a person from a short video?
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: Or should you diagnose yourself from a short video?
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, definitely for the first one, for that question, I can say no, don't do that.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: Don't do that.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: Uh seek a licensed mental health professional to aid you in understanding your symptoms and experience.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, even though I do think there's a place like of importance for, you know, those psychoeducational videos.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, because then you're like, yeah, absolutely.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like let's take that, those symptoms, yeah, to a psychologist and figure out what's going on.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: But but the real question, like, can a diagnose can you diagnose a person?
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's this the reason I put the word should in there versus can is there's actually a rule um in the world of mental health.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's technically an ethical rule uh by the American Psychiatric Association.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's called the Goldwater Rule.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I had never heard of this before.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: I've known this for a while.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: I have.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: How?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: I how did I know about this?
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: I know a lot of random Yeah, you do.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: This is why you ask random questions.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: I guess.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: But anyways, the rule states the ethical rule uh ethical rule, uh the ethical principle states that a psychiatrist or psychologist should not diagnose a person that they are not actively in treatment with.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: So even if you were to watch, let's say, a video of a public figure, a celebrity, a politician, you can actually run afoul of your licensing boards if you publicly state that this person, Mr.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_02: So-and-so, Mrs.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: So-and-so, has a mental health diagnosis.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: That's yeah, that's really interesting.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: I did not know that.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: Do you see a lot do you see a lot of this?
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what do you mean?
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like have I have I seen this?
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: I have been a I'll put it this way.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_02: I so I used to work for the federal government.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: And when you work for the federal government in the branch that I worked in, I was considered a law enforcement officer.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: And there are very specific things in that role that we were not allowed to do, even above and beyond becoming a private citizen.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: So I had a different level of ethical standards, not just as a psychologist, okay, but as a law enforcement officer and a member of the federal government that I was not allowed to comment or say upon or do any kind of political activation.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: I see.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: So this was like, yeah, just kind of in the background.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: And this was part of that your job.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it was part of that training.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: I don't remember because um I think over the past uh eight to twelve years, the political rhetoric in the country has not I I would not say changed drastically, but it's escalated.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I think maybe I've learned about this because some mental health professionals were going on to social media platforms and different types of things, making declarations and and statements about potential diagnosis related to public figures.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, I see.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: And then there was fallout.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: I do remember this happening with one very big public figure.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: What was that?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: That was a noise.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: That was that was something.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: That was surely something.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what to do.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes there are no words, they're just noises.
• 18:45
  unknown: What?
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: What well, okay, yes.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: So so, and I think when I heard that question, I thought since it was coming from a listener, they maybe meant like, you know, can I diagnose?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: Is this information I see on social media relevant?
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it is, and also don't diagnose yourself based on it.
• 19:01
  unknown: Right.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't I think like as a mental health professional, if I see a video of someone, technically, a the the Goldenwater rule applies, whether you're a public servant or not, like it's just for mental health professionals.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: Secondly, that video is only showing what the video shows.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: There's editing involved, there's so many things now with AI, there's so many things involved.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: So that's true.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: No, I don't think a mental health professional can really diagnose a person from a video.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: Because you can't see the full picture of them in your office with them.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: You cannot spirit that's not the same.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so from a short edited clip or reel.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: Now if you're doing video conferencing, that's called a telehealth session.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's different.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: That is mental health treatment.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right, right.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: Got it.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think so.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: You ready?
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: I'm ready.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: Can people change?
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: That is a big question.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want me to answer it or is it too big?
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: No, of no, no, no, it's not too big.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: Of course I think people can change because I would not be in this field as a psychologist if I didn't think people could change.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: But I do think change is pretty subjective.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: So when we say change, right, like I think that therapy can absolutely help people develop healthier coping skills and healthier relationships and um, you know, a more balanced view of yourself and others and relationships.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think there's a ton of change that can occur um, you know, with with just in light, I think people change can change on their own, but I also think, you know, sometimes they need more help by coming to therapy.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: But there are some things that don't change, like, you know, neurodevelopmental disorders, like ADHD.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: You're born with ADHD.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: This is not change.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: You cannot not have ADHD, but you can certainly lessen the you know, sort of negative manic consequences of ADHD, you know, ADHD, right?
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: We can learn emotion regulation, we can learn planning and organizational skills, impulse control, we can build skills around it.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: So symptoms are less impairing, but we always have ADHD, just like autism is another example of that.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: So those things don't change, but we can make progress on symptoms and really alleviate or kind of like improve functioning.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um the same with like personality.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think, you know, personality disorders or sort of really rigid personality patterns.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think all of this can change, and what I mean is is sort of grow and progress, and we can get better at, you know, a sort of less rigid, unhelpful personality traits.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: But we always have a personality, and it's not about erasing personality or like changing personality so much as like I think about it as bloody.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: People be freer to be themselves and like removing unhelpful obstacles or patterns or sure.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I mean, yes, I think that not everyone can change or progress or is willing to or able to willing or able.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm thinking about people who are like really severely mentally ill or underfunded or homeless.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like I see.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: So there's other like barriers that are not just the change element themselves.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like sometimes they cannot change.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: There are severe limitations to progress and change.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes there is a lack of motivation or an unwillingness.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: So there are always obstacles, you know, I think that get that can get in the way.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: But at the core, yes.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think people can change, meaning they can grow.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it does not mean to me, you know, even with anxiety or trauma triggers, all of that stuff, you know, may be present, I think, for a person for a long time, but you can just get better at managing all of it.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think I've I've had a lot of really it's funny we got asked this question because there's a lot of really interesting dialogue I've had in sessions and out of sessions over the past uh, I guess, month or so with different different folks from different backgrounds about this perception of change.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_02: I've had folks say, well, you know, so and so, uh, my uncle or my sister or so-and-so has been going to therapy for years and she's still a XYZ, so therapy doesn't work.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I always it's so interesting to hear that, and that I'm not gonna argue with someone's perspective on that, but I think it's funny to and I think it's important to say in this your mental health professional, your therapist will only ever have your view.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like we only ever have the view of the person of the patient we're treating.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: So then they're unless you're getting collateral information for some reason, but right.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: And that's not like we get collateral information for different types of assessments.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sometimes I do for therapy, depending.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean with kids, kiddos.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, with kids are getting collateral more often, but but I think also, you know, um I think that that your therapist is the therapist working with someone is always gonna get that person's viewpoint.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe the therapist sees change in the time they spend with the person or in the person experienced change, but does that change always translates translate to the person's day-to-day experience with other people?
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: I have no idea.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: And also that person who says, you know, so and so didn't change, may have different goals for that person than so and so had for themselves.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it's interesting.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's super interesting and things are nuanced, and I think people can change.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: I think people can change, and change is so subjective.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: Super subjective.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's yeah, right totally.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I agree.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_02: Well, uh this was a fun one.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: I really like getting questions from our listeners.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: So you can keep sending them in.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: We can keep doing these.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: Please leave a comment.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, please send an email.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: We have uh you know, we have a website.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_02: We have one.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: We do, indeed.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: You want to tell them psychforsanity.com.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: Psychforsanity.com.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, check us out.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, ask us um more questions because we like to we like to talk to each other about questions in psychology.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: That's kind of what we do on just on our own.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: So we can have an excuse to do it on the podcast instead.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: All right, cool.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: Well, what are you taking away from our fun our fun listener QA today?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: That we have listeners.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm on to be honest, that's the first thing that popped into my brain, and that's how I like to roll.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I was really happy and now I'm depressed.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: Of course we have listeners.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: How d on behalf of the listeners, how dare you?
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: No, that wasn't a negative thing.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: It was like a yay.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: But did you not think that we had them before?
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well, kind of, but this is more concrete, so it's cool, you know, that they like sending in questions.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: Dude.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: Dude.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: Dude.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: But I mean, of course we have listeners.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: We're fun, exciting, interesting psychologists most of the time.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: All the time.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: On that note, we will see you next time.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: This podcast is intended for informational and educational purposes only, and is not a substitute for therapy, diagnosis, or any kind of professional mental health treatment.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: We hope that we can share with you our experience authentically and genuinely, and we hope that occasionally we'll make you laugh.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe you can relate to our quest and how we're psyched for sanity.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: The content we share is um our personal opinions and insights.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: They are not clinical insights to anyone, and they don't represent or reflect any entity that we work in or have worked for in the past.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_02: But if listening to this podcast has made you think, we really encourage you to seek out a mental health professional in your area.