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What Can We Learn About Handling Conflict From the Head of Customer Service for PayPal and Venmo? · Pediatrics Now: Cases Updates and Discussions for the Busy Pediatric Practitioner

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  I'm Holly Wehmint, and this is Pediatrics Now, cases, updates,
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  and discussions for the busy pediatric practitioner.
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  Click on the link in this podcast for free credit that may include CME,
• 0:15
  MOC, or ethics credit, depending on our topic or podcast.
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  Pediatrics Now is brought to you by the Department of Pediatrics at UT Health
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  San Antonio and University Health's new Women's and Children's Hospital.
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  We're talking about what can we learn in medicine about customer service from
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  the vice president of customer service for PayPal and Venmo.
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  And joining me here on the podcast today is Matthew Anderson.
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  Thank you for having me today. So say if people in the clinic are not getting
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  along or two people seem to butt heads, do whatever you can to...
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  Help them to agree to disagree? Or what do you, what advice do you have there?
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  Oh, good question. We deal with this actually all the time because we do have
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  teammates that don't like their team leaders.
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  We have teammates that don't like each other, especially when you're dealing
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  with a staff of 10,000 people, 12,000 people around the globe.
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  These types of events are bound to happen.
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  When they do occur, we obviously try to go through the normal channels of let's
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  try and help these people figure out or help our staff and our teammates figure
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  out a way to resolve this where appropriate.
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  I'm not looking for anyone to have a forced friendship relationship at work.
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  We get to choose our friends. We get to choose our spouses.
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  Our children are given to us. Our neighbors are given to us.
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  It's very frequently that we get to choose other people outside of those relationships.
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  So if we cannot resolve it or the people can't resolve it, we then always make
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  sure that it is, that there is a degree of professionalism that permeates the
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  office, that there's a degree of professionalism that is always entailed,
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  and that includes kindness,
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  that includes speaking to each other in the right tones.
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  And candidly speaking, if people choose not to participate in that way,
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  then we do our best to help them find a different place to be because we are
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  a culture that wants to drive that care for our customers.
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  And one of the ways that we emphasize that is by caring for each other in that space.
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  Really great advice,
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  the fourth principle certainly the fourth principle is very simply put deepen the relationship,
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  and in the service industry where i work it's fairly simple for us it's saying
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  what more could we do to help you sometimes it's here's a product that might be beneficial for you,
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  sometimes it's here's a service that might be something that you want to investigate.
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  In many instances it is simply hey
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  in the future here's something to avoid or
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  here's something to embrace or here's something that might help so it's a way
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  to say not only do i acknowledge the relationship and transaction and relationship
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  dialogue that we've just had about solving your current problem but as you go
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  forward here's something else that you could do to help make it easier for you in the future.
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  It could be as simple as, hey, next time you set up an appointment,
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  if you park in this lot versus this lot, that might make it easier for you to park your van.
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  It might be something like, hey, in your MyChart, when you go into MyChart for
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  the first time, it's going to feel really confusing.
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  My recommendation is to go to this screen first, click this button and go there,
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  because that will be the homepage where you'll get to see what's outside of that.
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  It could be as simple as, hey, remember when you're logging into MyChart later,
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  be sure that you put in your, I don't know the details around MyChart logins,
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  but make sure that you're not putting slashes in between your date of birth or information.
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  Anything that helps the customer, in this case, have their life be made easier
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  by one degree, by one degree, suddenly adds an element of extra that makes it beneficial.
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  Think about when you're at the grocery store and one of the people you're there,
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  there might be no one bagging and you're standing there trying to swipe your groceries through.
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  And just as you go to help bag, the person runs up and says,
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  do you mind if I bag these for you? And you'd like, no, not a problem at all.
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  And they get done bagging and they say, do you need some assistance to your car?
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  Even when you say no, you think to yourself, oh my goodness,
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  they just made this a little bit better for me.
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  Because there has been one or two times where I've said, yeah,
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  actually I'm pushing a stroller.
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  I've got two shopping carts because we used to do that with our five children
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  and try to navigate that.
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  And just that extra help went a ton of a long way for us.
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  So it doesn't have to be big, but it's what one thing could we do that deepens
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  the relationship in some way, shape or form?
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  Do you want us to text you for your next appointment?
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  Do you need a reminder? or what could we do to help? Any of those types of things.
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  Just how do you deepen that relationship and make someone's life easier by one
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  degree cements a relationship and suddenly now you've pulled through the full cycle of activities.
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  Know me, understand my problem, solve my problem, and deepen the relationship
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  by making my life just a little bit better in some way.
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  That's the service mantra that we live by. Helping someone on their way out,
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  like one of the last things they'll probably remember from leaving the clinic
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  or that phone call or email with PayPal and Venmo.
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  Absolutely. There's a saying actually in the orchestras around the globe,
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  which is customers will remember your first note and they will remember your last note.
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  But there's a lot of mistakes that get hidden in the middle that no one remembers.
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  What about patients who are asked for a co-pay or to pay a balance,
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  and maybe they can't at that time?
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  As you know, money can be a touchy topic.
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  Yes, I deal with that every day. I deal in the business of money.
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  What I found most interesting is people will share.
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  Holly, if I asked you right now to share a bit about your family,
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  you will share with me a whole bunch of stuff. By the time our conversation
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  is done, I would probably know all of your children's names.
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  I would know the cities that you've lived in. I would know probably your favorite
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  food, your favorite restaurants to go to.
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  I could reverse diagnostic a whole bunch of stuff about you that you're willing to share.
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  But if I ask you, Holly, what's the current balance of your checking account?
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  Or how much money is your salary? You will clam up so quickly.
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  Finances are very sacred to us for all the right reasons, all the right reasons.
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  So talking to people about money is a very sensitive topic. So number one,
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  acknowledge that it is sensitive to talk about.
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  And number two, it is also not taboo to talk about. And for us,
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  we just like to have very honest conversations with customers.
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  So for example, in the PayPal space, people through a series of events might
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  find that their PayPal has some degree of a negative balance that needs to be
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  cared for in order for their account to function.
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  Rather than hum and haw about it or try to explain all of the detail,
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  we just have a conversation that says, hey, your account's currently in a negative
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  balance. How would you like to take care of that today?
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  And it's not about any type of blame. It's not about any type of condemnation.
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  It's simply stated that here's what the fact is and here's what we need resolved.
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  Now, if a customer then says, listen, I'm having some struggles and some hard
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  times. I need some assistance in navigating.
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  What we don't want to say is, again, our policy is that you pay before you X.
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  That's not helpful. Instead, it is to say, well, in order to provide you care,
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  we need to make sure this gets taken care of.
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  Here's some options or opportunities that we might have to help you work through this.
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  Here's what we, which course would you like to take?
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  It helps navigate through that difficult conversation of instead of,
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  oh, I'm being accusatory that you're not able to take care of this.
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  But yes, we have an expectation that this needs to be solved.
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  How can we help you? Here's the options that are available for us to talk through today. Wonderful.
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  One pediatrician I was talking to, so she leads a large group of pediatricians
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  and her question to you is her words.
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  Doctors don't like to be told what to do.
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  So how do you help instill the principles of customer service where,
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  I mean, no one's perfect.
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  So if you see something, and within all the incredible work that the doctors
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  you're working with or leading are doing, if you see something that could be improved,
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  how do you say it where you're telling someone what to do when they probably
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  don't want to be told what to do? Oh, absolutely.
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  That happens all the time in my business.
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  Yes, doctors don't want to be told what to do. I can totally understand that.
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  They've gone through countless months of medical training.
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  They're constantly refining and honing their craft. They are the experts in their field.
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  People rely on them to be the decision makers and the drivers of much of the activity.
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  So I can understand from both a position of responsibility and authority,
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  as well as a responsibility where they feel a lot of the weight of the world
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  on their shoulders to do the right thing,
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  I can totally understand where every doctor is coming from.
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  That being said, underneath that title of doctor, there's also a human being.
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  And when we give feedback, we give feedback to people regardless of their title.
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  We give feedback back to the individual to say, again, hey, clear as kind.
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  I know that you're busy and you're pressed for time. I know that there's a lot
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  of things that you have going for you.
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  I had this observation that might be helpful to you to consider.
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  Here's what I would like you to understand as a person, not as the doctor.
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  That being said, there are also times, Holly and my business,
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  where we do need to give the doctor direct feedback, which is,
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  I know you don't want to hear this.
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  However, I care enough about you to make sure that you hear this and you're
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  going to hear it from me directly.
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  Know that I'm coming from a space of honesty and transparency.
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  But when you do this thing, here's what it means to me and here's how I'm affected.
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  Again, I go back to the example of how you would give feedback to a loved one.
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  If we look at it from that perspective of fear is
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  kind we do such a disservice by staying away
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  from those conversations because they're difficult and we're
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  worried about how the other person is going to react you can never dictate how
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  someone is going to take that feedback the best you can do is put it in the
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  perspective of i care enough about you to be willing to put myself out there
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  for this and put that forward to them if they decide to be angry about it and huff and chuff great,
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  sorry that the doctor feels that way and I can guarantee you 100% that that
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  is translating through to their patients that is translating through to their
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  staff that is translating through all the things that they are currently doing so clear as kind.
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  It's almost like if our best friend asks and, and he or she got,
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  it was, it was the terrible haircut.
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  Like, does this haircut look bad? Should I keep going to the person?
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  Is the kind thing to do to say it's, that's not that bad. Or just with kindness,
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  like, well, yeah, it's not great.
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  I mean, you can still pull it off, but I wouldn't, I wouldn't go back to that
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  place or something like that. Absolutely.
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  Absolutely. If today, Holly, someone was doing something in your neighborhood
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  or in your front yard that you didn't like,
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  if you decide not to say anything, what you are doing is condoning whatever
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  it is that they're doing and saying, that has become now acceptable to me because
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  I don't have the kindness in me to share with them what that impact of that activity is.
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  And to me that is a space where I don't care enough about you to help you be
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  better or correct this behavior so therefore I'm going to condone it therefore I'm complicit.
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  That's great well is there anything else
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  Matthew as the vice president for customer service for
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  PayPal and Venmo that you want to mention here I feel so honored to talk to
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  you and this has been such a wonderful conversation I know with PayPal and Venmo
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  stuff is just super easy and i was going to ask you how important is it just to make things easy,
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  it's ridiculously complex we spend
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  our entire existence trying to evaluate every opportunity we can to make our
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  the customer our customers lives better help them do the things that they want
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  to do our job is revolutionizing commerce to help people utilize our products
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  and tools to enrich their lives and make them better.
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  The parallel I would draw for you in the pediatric space is you've got people
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  who are coming to you who also want that same thing. Help me with this problem
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  so my life can be better. Help me get to a better space.
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  And so I would probably leave this conversation with a couple of quick comments.
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  Number one, thank you so much for the opportunity to share some thoughts and
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  some feelings and some insights as a parent who has been through the pediatric
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  process and continues to be in that process.
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  I have such admiration, care, and love for those medical professionals,
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  partners, and friends who have been there for my family, who've been there for
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  me, who've been there for my boys and my daughter as we've gone through our journey.
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  As I mentioned before, some of these folks have become friends along that path,
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  and we are deeply appreciative of the care that they have shown us, the care that we felt,
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  and the care that they've had with the people that we've entrusted,
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  literally the very lives of the people that mean the most to me.
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  They have to care for that. So that would be the first thing I would love to
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  say is just thank you. And the second is to acknowledge that we are all on this journey.
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  No customer service, no pediatrics office, no medical hospital,
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  no business has figured out all the right answers yet. If so,
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  they would bottle it up and sell it on the shelves and we could just buy it and drink it.
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  That does not exist. We are all part of this process. And so I will leave you
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  with the same thing I try to leave with my teams anytime we have a conversation
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  like this, which is, it's not about trying to solve every problem.
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  It's about moving things forward by one step, by changing course by one degree,
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  by making one change today and one change tomorrow and one change the day after
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  that continuously makes it better until you get to the point where you have perfected it.
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  And once you get to that point, I guarantee another set of problems will come
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  in because you will move to the next tier of activity.
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  But it's all about that incremental activity.
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  Just be one step better than you were yesterday, today.
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  And if everybody does that by one degree, you will see a massive change manifest
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  in your business. That is great.
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  Here on Pediatrics Now, we love quotes. I love quotes.
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  Do you have an inspirational quote for us to end on?
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  I do have one of my favorite quotes. It does not have to deal directly with
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  customer service in the context that we've talked about.
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  But then again, it does, because I think it kind of puts the mantra of my entire life in perspective.
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  And that quote is by a gentleman by the name of Mr. Werthlin,
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  who says, Come what may and love it.
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  It's the only sign that hangs in my home. And the principle behind it is simply
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  to say, life comes at us fast.
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  We're not always going to, every day is not going to be full of sunshine and
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  roses. Every day is not going to be amazing.
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  There will be thunderstorms. There will be difficulties.
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  But embrace those moments They are fleeting Learn from them,
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  Relish in them Enjoy them We get to go through this life one time So while we're
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  going through it Let's take care of each other Let's take care of ourselves
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  Let's take care of the folks around us And come what may And love it,
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  And in fact, so you were in a biking accident where your hand was pretty severely
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  injured and you're not looking back like, why did I go down that street or why did I turn this way?
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  Oh, no, I crashed on my bicycle and I actually called my wife who laughed at
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  me first. I have to admit that she did laugh at me.
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  I'm wounded on the side of the road. Please come save me. And I have now a new
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  superpower that I did not know, which is whenever it's about to rain,
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  I have an early warning indicator that it's about to happen.
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  So I love my new superpower. The power of flight or invisibility or teleportation
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  would have been a cool superpower, but I at least have one now that I can use.
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  So come what may and love it.
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  And did that help you? That saying helped you get through that really difficult experience?
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  Oh, absolutely. I look at that as at all the events Life is full of hardships
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  and trials And difficult things And whether it's the loss of loved ones Or up
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  to and including My toast fell off the counter And landed butterside down.
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  Come with me and love it It's a life experience I'm glad that I had it I will
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  learn from this I will be careful where I put my toast next time I will take
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  the moments that I have With the people that I'm spending time with And cherish
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  them for the times that they are,
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  So that's a quote that just permeates throughout my entire life.
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  And it gives me this kind of, I would like to think, a fairly cheerful and bright attitude.
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  That's not to say my life is not full of difficulty and hardship. It definitely is.
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  I cried my own set of tears and I'm frustrated and angry with people and feel
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  downtrodden and depressed some days. But come with me and love it.
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  You ended up having to have surgery on your hand, right? I did.
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  One of the most wonderful experiences i've had which i i can't say it's it's
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  going to sound like it's not wonderful but they gave me a nerve block on my
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  right arm when they went to do the surgery,
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  and for a full day i had this what felt like a hundred pounds of just raw meat
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  as my arm that i was moving around i was actually worried that i was going to
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  sleep on it break because i couldn't feel it and i look back at that opportunity
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  now i look back at the way that felt and thought,
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  what a fun experience that was to go through what didn't
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  feel fun at the time but now i look back at it like how cool is
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  that to experience that for this like one time in my life and now i'm empathetic
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  towards other people that have had other blocks and and who have to go in and
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  if they say hey should i get this thing done it's like yes it's wonderful because
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  you don't feel a thing but yet the next day it's going to feel really weird
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  but just enjoy it and embrace it Thank you.
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  And I went through the full trauma intake and without sharing too much information
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  or oversharing, more people now have seen me naked in San Antonio than did before
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  my accident. That's for sure.
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  You kind of have to let go of that with all these people taking care of you.
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  I'm thrilled that they cared enough to take care of me. And I apologize for
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  the view that they had to do so in doing so.
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  But I'm so glad that they did such an amazing job. And you have another quote
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  that's also inspirational about if you're going, go.
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  Oh, yeah. With my children, I have a quote that I use with my children quite
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  often, which is whenever they're going to go do some event,
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  whether it's going to a school dance or go to a movie with friends or invite
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  some friends over to play and participate,
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  they're already investing the time, effort, and energy to be at that place.
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  They're committed to spending that time
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  and so my counsel to them is
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  if you're going to go go be present
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  be there give it your all because if
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  not why waste the time effort and energy
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  and it's the same thing i admonish with my staff that if you're going to go
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  meaning if you're going to invest that time talking with a customer make it
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  an amazing experience for them make it a wonderful experience for you if you're
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  going to be investing that type of time if you're going to go go and try not
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  to be distracted on a cell phone or social media, perhaps.
• 20:58
  Oh, yes, that's exactly. Don't stand on the side like a wallflower.
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  Find a girl, ask her to dance. Make a new friend.
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  Do dangerous things safely. Like, that's what I want with my boys especially.
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  And since my daughter is not into those activities, as we've discussed,
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  but if you're going to go, go.
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  And wear the helmet. Oh, yes. Do dangerous things safely.
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  Absolutely. Wear the helmet. When I crashed on my bicycle, though I was wearing
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  a helmet in case your listeners are wondering if I did do all the right things. I absolutely did.
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  I was just a foolish old man doing things I shouldn't.
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  And I had a consequence for that and got back on my bike six months later and
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  I've loved every minute of it since.
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  That's great to hear that you're still riding. And in this Pediatrics Now News
• 21:39
  Feed, we have an episode where I interviewed a new neurosurgeon,
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  and she talks about the safety measures that all of us need to take,
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  including wearing helmets and how to talk to patients about that and how important it is.
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  Matthew Anderson, Vice President of PayPal and Venmo's customer service.
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  I can't thank you enough for being here and sharing your knowledge and wisdom here on Pediatrics Now.
• 22:05
  Thank you so much. Thank you so much for the time. I appreciate the opportunity.