Latest / RoofersCoffeeShop / Coffee Conversations LIVE from WRE 2026
Transcript
- Karen Edwards: Hello and welcome back to Western Roofing Expo. This is Coffee Conversations Live, being brought to you from the Western Roofing Expo this year. My name is Heidi Ellsworth, and I have to tell you, what a show. It is amazing. And we have an all-star panel here to talk about what we're seeing, what's happening. But so before we get started, I want to make sure to thank Western Colloid as our sponsor and for everything they're doing for the industry. It's pretty amazing. I've been sitting here talking with Greg. You're gonna hear more about Greg, but thank you so much for sponsoring. Proud to do it. It is amazing to have you here. as with all of our copy conversations, if you have questions, please put them into the chat. Megan and Alberto are producing and they will let us know if anything comes through. also this we is being recorded and it will be available on demand within 24 to 48 hours. So are we ready? Okay. Let's start out with some introductions. Again, my name is Heidi Ellsworth. I am so excited to welcome and introduce again, returning Mark with Job Nimbus. How are you doing? Doing great. Good. Can you introduce yourself and tell us what you do and a little bit about Job Nimbus? Yeah, I look after the marketing department at JobNimbus. We're a technology company that helps roofing contractors really go from lead to payment in an automated fashion to streamline and grow their business. I've been in the the industry at least about three years in roofing, but in technology marketing for about 15 years. a lot of process type marketing, marketing to marketers, and a lot of in marketing in the Google space, right? So everybody needs. Yeah. And I love small businesses and enterprise businesses and you know, helping all the the gamut of of these types of solutions. That it is amazing. And we'll get into this more, but as you think about job nimbus and what you're doing as a CRM, but you're also bringing all of this, all of these other integrations and ways to be helping your marketing, grow your business. So yeah. That's right. We really strive to be the we call it the contractor OS, right? We want to be the hub. For all the technology solutions to really plug in to come in and to automate the full end to end of your business. So it's really the operating system. And we're seeing that all the time. Yeah. That's so exciting. So cool. And Greg, welcome back. I've already had you on the sound stage today once. Yeah. and again, thank you for sponsoring. Can can you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about Western Colloid? Sure. I'm Greg Lovati, president of the Western Col Roofing manufacturing company specializing in roof coatings and more specifically in fluid applied and reinforced roofing and roof renovations, overlays, they go by different names dependent on where you're at 'cause that's becoming a big and bigger part of the market. It's always been our business since the early seventies, but it's a bigger part of the market now because of energy and waste and landfill usage and all that stuff. So It's something that's really blossomed into a high high profile part of the roofing market class. Talk about the right place at the right time. You've been doing it for decades, but now we just I on the trends report and we'll talk about this a little bit here in a bit, but we're seeing the growth of liquid applied reinforced roofing systems full. And I'm gonna say systems because it's a full system that you've been doing for a long time. So Thank you so much. We we've got so much to talk about. And I am so happy. So you may if you saw on our promotions out there, you may have seen Ron Lloyd. And he's gonna be joining us a little bit later. But in the meantime, I am so happy to have Melissa Denson from Central States here. Melissa, it's just so great. Can you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your company? Yeah, so I'm Melissa Denson. I'm the VP of Sales and Marketing for Central States Manufacturing. We're one of the largest manufacturers of metal building products in the entire country. So we go basically from coast to coast and really excited. I mean, the reason I'm here is we just opened a plant, a giant plant right outside of Salt Lake City. So the West is just ripe. and we're seeing so much growth in metal out there, which I know we're gonna talk about today. But we are a major manufacturer of metal roofing, metal siding, and full metal building systems. Yeah. We should hang out. We're like right up the road from Salt Lake City and job. This is where the industry meets, right? Right here. This is where we connect and this is where we go. Are we okay. So we're gonna go ahead and get started with our first topic and work our way through there. So what I really wanna talk about is I wanna talk a little bit about Western states and I wanna talk Because before this started, I was spending time here with Greg, and Greg was telling me something really, really interesting about the history of the Western Roofing Expo. So can you share that again? Well, sure, we've been at West Western Colloid, we've been proud to be in the very first Western Roofing Expo. I don't remember the date. It was in the early seventies sometime, but we've been in every one since. But besides that, my dad and I had wholesale roofing distribution up in central California. And I was telling Heidi about Larry and Mary Davis, who were good personal friends of my life and myself. Larry was from the desco area. And I was just commenting on how Larry was really adverse to being a member of any roofing contractor association. But my dad and I were very popular, thought it was should be something that was popular and should have been done more and more areas. So we started the Central Valley Liver Contractors Association. My dad used to be executive director of the Southern California one way back in the 60s. But Larry, we could never get him to come to our meetings. He said, nope, I'm not gonna deal with my competitors. What why would I want to deal and and talk with competitors of my industry? And finally my dad became very close friends with him. at dinner one time he got him to he says okay i'll come to the next one so he came to the first one and they came to the next one and then it was at everyone and he eventually became the president of our local association and then he moved on to I think the little California and to the Western states and became one of the very high profile, very active. So that here was a contractor who believed it was against his principles to commiserate with or or associate with his competitors. being one of the biggest supporters of it. Yeah. So there's not many people know why the Larry Mary Davis foundation was formed, but I remember the day that that it was and he were great people there. They're great. So there's good reasons to be part of that association that they're showing it today. It turned out here is amazing. It's amazing. the Davis Foundation is the foundation for the Western states. And last night we had a huge auction It was s highly successful. And to Greg's point, Mary and Larry Davis actually were in a plane crash following a Western States board meeting. And so the foundation was named after them and they started it. And here is something just to show that everybody I was very touched by last night. Ron, I know you were there and is that their brother, it was Mary's brother, who now lives in Hawaii. In where? Mary, yeah. Mary, yes. And they donated last night twenty-five thousand dollars to the Davis Foundation. And that's all for scholarships. That's so fifteen scholarships went out just recently. All this money is raised. So it's yeah, that's a great story. And the fact that you were the first you were in the very first Western Ruby Expo, I think is amazing. I have to say next year Roofers Coffee Shop will be celebrating its twenty-fifth anniversary. And Western Colloid was also one of the first advertisers, not just on what Roofie Rufus Coffee Shop, but also in Roofie Exchange, Rufus Exchange. So, okay, there's our history for the day. so I wanted to hear so far, and we're gonna start over here. Ron, thank you for joining us. It's so good to have you. So I might can you introduce yourself and tell us about your company, but and then also about what you're doing with Western States. my name is Ron Lloyd. cameras over here, I guess. Yes. And I own cook Cocoa Roofing in Kailua Kona, Hawaii. I will be installed as president of Western States tomorrow. controler for thirty plus years. been on the board now for eight plus. And great group of people. Love being here. Heidi's a dear friend and yeah. We're so happy to have you and congratulations. Davis. Yeah. So I spoke last night with her daughter afterwards and I said, I understand your uncle lives in Hawaii in Kona, which is where I live. Yeah. And I said I would love to get his contact information and thank him personally for his generous gift. And she says, Well, he lives in a place called Kohaneiki. And I said, I put the roof on his house. Small small world. Well small world. I will meet with him next week. Yeah. That is well, I wanted to kind of start we start so we started out just a little bit the history of on Western Roofing Expo and Western States Roofing Contractors Association. But Ron, just real quick, how's the show going? I I am like, wow, there are so many people. Show is great. we don't have the final tally yet because of the walk ups. Yeah. But it'll either be our biggest or second biggest attended show. Wow. Last year was the b each year yeah it's the it keeps growing it keeps growing even after covet and all we went through working remote this still is a drama. Yeah. it's a reunion. It's like going to your high school reunion every year. And it does feel bigger this year than last year. Like it's first little attendance just walking around this morning. Yeah. So what are you seeing on your booth, Mark? definitely a lot of traffic right now. just obviously opens up you know and w it's interesting because I'm seeing a A dynamic and we can get into this, but there's an older generation that is maybe tech adverse, right? I had a conversation with a contractor that's like, I don't really want any solutions to like capture more leads, right? Like I I'm just I'm good with my pen and paper. And then I had conversations with you know, other groupers that are like, Hey, I can't keep up. I need to respond faster, I need to automate my processes. So yeah, dip different dichotomy there, but fun fun conversations all across the board. We are in a generational there is So a lot of shifts that are going on. Melissa, this is your first Western states, right? It is. I'm so excited to be here. I'm kinda shocked. I I know. You are an icon. I well, it's because we would always have to split up the shows and then somebody would go to the western half, and I always went to the eastern half of the shows. Yeah. Well, you're I we are so happy to have you here. I know you haven't even been inside yet. I haven't just walking up. What's kind of some of your first impressions? I mean, it's got so much energy. Yeah. I mean, that's really and first of all, I love the West. Roofing is so big in the West, it's in general. Metal roofing is so big in the West, but I just the amount of energy, how excited people are. Whenever you see a lot of contractors coming in, you know it's gonna be a really good show. Right. It's not just vendors, it's contractors coming in. And really wherever I go with shows across the country, wherever there's a really strong association. That's who has strong shows. Yeah. So and we're see we saw in the classes this morning, most of the classes were full. I love it. And it was it it was really good. So I want to talk a little bit with all of you about what's happening in the roofing sector right now. What is twenty twenty six look like? And I'm gonna start a little bit because we're just hearing so many I wanna say up and down, sideways. It's just everything's kind of crazy with the economy and what's What what you're hearing, you're hearing some people just doing really great, other people not so well. What Mark, you work with so many contractors. What are you hearing? A lot. you know, I think part of the reason why we probably see a lot of these you know, sessions that are really full, right? It's people are hungry for education and best practices and how can they grow, right? it's usually the contractors that we're talking to at Job Nimbus are coming to us because they're looking to to grow their business and they're looking for solutions where they can get more for more bang for their buck, right? And for their time. if they have a limited ability to hire or like limited hours in the day, how can they automate more of that so they can communicate with more customers, win more jobs, streamline their production? that's what our our solution is for. Yeah. but it's hard. I read an I read an ARMA report recently that described the market being about 40% down this year. And that's probably a a combination of of A few factors, right? We see insurance is getting more regulated, right? We're seeing fewer storms than ever, right? And that that impacts definitely you know, the southern part of the the states like Southern California or all the way through you know, Arizona even th they they have monsoon season. Yeah, Utah is affected as well, right? And so we're seeing fewer storms, which is imp impacting the demand. And then we're also seeing just like a rough economy where homeowners are tightening up their wallet, right? And so the the roofers that are winning, or at least the roofers that are growing right now are finding ways to close that gap. Their speed to lead really matters. How can they communicate with customers, especially inbound customers, faster? Yeah. And then they're lining up their sales process to win the job faster by having like financing solutions, right? So can they provide something that helps the homeowner get through that process instead of having sticker shock? Right. That's that's really important. Yeah, having a good, better press, best kind of pricing option. All of those things, like, you know, even AI solutions, which I'm sure we'll talk about, that we're embedding into our technology. you know, that really matters for the the modern worker that wants to grow their business. you know, it was interesting. I love that point because I was talking to a contractor last night, Hillary from New Mexico, and she was like, Thank God the monsoons are here. It's raining, and we're so happy because we always think, you know, well, it's the Hill States or it's Florida with the hurricanes, but it's really everywhere that when the weather gets off course that it really influences what's going on. I mean, Ron, you have had two or three hurricanes. We've had five major weather events this year. Wow. Wow. What has that done? I mean, are you just backed up? Yeah. we had two incidents called the Kona low, a low pressure formed off the south end of the island and ran up the chains. When the first cona low hit in three days I took 600 service calls. Whoa. Phoenix. Whoa. Again a week later, exact same scenario. And then we've had three hurricanes in all with the last one just missed us yesterday. Yeah. Yeah. I I mean, when's the last time any of us have heard of that many hurricanes around Hawaii? They used to go to pass no hurricanes this year for the first time ever. Yeah, historic. Yeah. Everything is changing. It's they're going on two years in a row, like very limited storm season. Yeah. Is really wreaking havoc in the Pacific. Yeah. California's getting hit. Mexico's getting hit. It's supposed to be super, super healthy next year. Yeah, it is. Can it get any bigger, more super? I'm not sure, but yeah. that is crazy. What so economy, what you're seeing in Hawaii for the roofing community pretty strong at this point. Yeah. Strong before the storms. Really? yeah, th there's been there's always growth in Hawaii. Yeah. And it's it's pretty controlled, but there's also a huge reroofed market. And it's all roofs that wear out. I mean we we don't have incidents like hail and stuff like that. Yeah. So it's it's typically just wear. Right. So it's consistent. You get your share of UV. Yes, we do. And salt spray. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's as you're going through that. So okay, Greg, what are you seeing on the commercial side, especially Southern California? Who has gotten some rain, but I mean just on a regular balance. Yeah. Where what are you seeing in the economy? First of all, I think I think the economy behind the scenes is okay. The problem is you go through these periods like right now, there's a lot of people holding their breath. Yeah. Yes. Yes. There's still a lot of it. We deal with property management companies that have and companies that have large large portfolios. but they're they all have money to spend, but they're they're waiting a little bit to spend. We're a little bit luckier because we're kind of at the we can offer an economic a resource to some of the complete, especially in California, but now they if you re-roof, you've got to put add insulation, add curb size, add and it's really costing the the the home the building owner and the the property manager a lot of money. so doing maintenance and overlays has has been a good yeah so sometimes we We don't lose bad as when it's down a little bit. We found that they're all out there. They have money. They're not borrowing. I just remember the the downturn in seven, eight, nine. They had to go to the banks and borrow to get hoofs done. And then nowadays they have the money. They're just cautious with it. And they're so you've got to do your marketing and due diligence and and represent yourself properly to give it the comfort level. And we do tons of budgeting for next year. You know, that's a big part of it. If you go to property managers and big building members, they don't always just call up and say view my roof. They say I need to get it in the budget for next year. So you've got a volunteer to go out or get contractors to go with you out and give them budget numbers and those kinds of things. So they can do some good planning. Yeah. It's I think that's so true. And exactly because what we've seen with the growth, it just going through the trends report that we've seen the growth in liquid applied reinforced systems. is growing and restoration but also service and maintenance. And we saw that I, you know, I was selling in during the Great Recession in the East in the West Coast. And this is totally different. I I feel it feels exact different, but it's still up and down. And it unfortunately I think a lot of the breath holding is also on the news cycle. Yeah. It tends to influence a lot of people by going out there. What are you seeing in the West on metal? And everything yeah, the metal is really good in the West. I mean it it is. And so one of the things that's helpful is that the West seems to actually still have more building than some other like newcon than some other parts of the country which have slowed way down. Yeah. I think it's because you have drift, right? Migration from other parts of the country coming in. The West is the great secret. Yeah. I think people are realizing how great the West is and so they're moving out. Like I said, I was in Salt Lake probably three weeks ago and everywhere I went, everything was being built. I mean, it was wild. Right. Coming from a part of the country where New Con is kind of depressed a little bit right now to see all of the new building out in Utah was just astonishing. what Greg is saying is very true. People holding their breath, not necessarily because it's real, but because they're not sure. There's just a lot of uncertainty. And when there's uncertainty, we've seen people hold projects, hearing from distributors, hearing from contractors, things are kind of slow. But I'll tell you, one of the things we're seeing this year is very similar to last year where the uncertainty caused people to kind of hold off, hold off the things they need to do for about the first maybe six to eight months of the year. And then at some point they have to do the projects, right? They have to do their roof. Exactly. So we're in that right now, at least for us. It is it is a lot of people have been holding off a lot of things and now it is gangbustered. And they all want it now. They all want it now. So we're doing our best to try to make sure everybody can get what they need. Right. but yeah, so it's it is a little bit weird to be able to like look and you know the jobs are there, you know people need the roofs, but people just don't feel the confidence in the economy and they hold them as long as they possibly can. One thing I will say I do think next year, even though some people are saying it's not gonna be like great, I do think because newcon is down, right? Because interest rates are probably still gonna be high, I do think that re roof is still gonna be really good. This is what I'm hearing from some people. it's I mean it's gonna be good because the aging housing market, people aren't gonna go buy new houses. They're not gonna build new houses, but they are gonna spend the money to fix up their houses. So I agree with that. Yeah, I am I am very hopeful about next year with the re-roof market. I think it's gonna be really good. Yeah, I just we're gonna finish the remodel on our house up in in Montana and we have metal roof and put it there's a lot of metal roofs around in there and snow sets and snow. Yeah, it's That market is it's a it's a great material for that market. And the other thing is the tariffs. I think everybody is expecting tariffs to either equalize or just become a fact of life that they absorb but but to maybe diminish some. So they say, well, if we hold off long enough are some of these prices coming down. I'm looking at see if there's ways for us not to increase because You're right. Insurance has gone up. A lot of things is gone up. Well, I think it's important to hold the line. Just because a manufacturer can raise prices, is everybody says, everybody's raising prices. You should be raising prices too. I don't think that's a valid news thing. I don't think so either. You have to, you have to full to speak in your company. But if you don't have to, holding the line and even decreasing prices when you find there's ways to do it. I think it's important and I think it helps the overall economy and especially our economy. Yeah. That's something that we're looking for. I I think and you know along that lines, one of the things that we are hearing is because of the gas prices and what's on the oil that we're having problems getting oil, we are hearing that there may be price increases or even shortages because of lack of crude oil. what are you what are you guys hearing on that front? Well, some of you might not with crude oil on that spot is part of all we have water-based asphalt emulsion, so we buy a lot of asphalt. And that's been a real problem in California because our governor in California just doesn't want any refineries in the state, period. So he's forced them out. And now they're reaping the the downside to that. They're finding the the Bay Area ones. So we've been juggling supply from a lot of places. and so the asphalt suppliers are kind of in the driver's seat if you've got asphalt supplies and you have to have a certain grade to make our products, but it isn't as plentiful as it used to be. So it's a little bit of a a factor and I'm sure it's affecting all ends of the industry. for us, we have to get asphalt directly close by in some of the other manufacturers that make modified or gold goods or whatever to ship a little bit and out of state. but It's it's definitely a factor and it I didn't really need to be. It was a political football that has now come back to bite. Yeah. You seem to be having a lot of that on all sides this year. and I just want to kind of go, you know, when you're talking about metal along that lines, I mean just in seeing the trends and stuff, asphalt and metal are starting to kind of get a lot closer. Every day as it's going, as things are going. So I I I want to ask you Melissa and then Ron, what your thoughts are on kind of the product availability, the product demand. What are people asking for? What are they looking for? Yeah. I don't think we're gonna run into capacity issues with steel. I know we won't, but I actually when I look at what's available in the US for it, I don't think that I don't think we're gonna run into capacity issues, but you're right about the pricing. It is interesting. Root metal has been the premium roof product, right? And it's had a more of a premium price tag, but as asphalt shingles, which is the industry I used to work in, right, for many, many years. Right. as those prices have continued to go up, that delta gets much smaller. And it is interesting because it we have seen people being willing and more interested in metal roofing who maybe wouldn't have, because it's a lot of benefit. and the the difference between the two prices is much smaller. So everything is everything's kinda equal. What are you seeing, Ron? I'm interested because Hawaii does a lot of metal roofing. Mm-hmm. We also do a lot of shingle roofing. And you do a lot of shingle roofing. and some cedar shake roofing. A little bit of cedar shape. Yeah. I just saw you on the front of Western Roofing, so I had to say that. That was beautiful project. Thank you. you know, this last storm we had was a really big wind of end. And In one neighborhood it it stripped 300 rows. Wow. Shingles. And wow. Probably now, I'd say three of ten that I'm going in and bidding, they're asking for metal as an option. Okay. And metal did hold up a lot better to the winds than the shingles did. And you really haven't had that kind of event a lot in the recent years, right? So and the price is starting. to get closer. Yeah. For for a long time, metal is way more expensive than shingles. Yeah. But shingles continually go up because of petroleum. And metal has kind of leveled off the last I'd say two years, 18 months. We haven't seen much price increase. So in Hawaii, they are getting much closer. It's getting closer. It becomes a much more attractive product for the homeowner because it is more longevity and better wind resistance. Especially what you were saying is like the sorry. the the homeowners are if they're not if there's not as much new con, right, h homeowners are looking for durable solutions to reinvest in their property and and like stay longer. There being more even even if it's slightly more expensive, it's a much more economical solution that we see that from homeowners as well. Yeah, if people are gonna like flip a house, I mean metal is probably not the right solution for them, right? But as we look, there's right, aging housing market and f sh fewer starts, high interest rates. People are thinking about staying in their homes longer and they are looking at more durable, longer lasting materials. I think Gen X and baby boomers are having a big effect on that too, 'cause those are large popul part of our population and they're looking, they're like, I don't wanna do this a whole bunch of times, right? I want to get it done and not have to worry about it. So there's th there's a shift in expectations. But also we were talking about that earlier, just even the Gen Z and the millennials who are coming on, they're looking at things different too. So I find it as a marketer, as you are and you know, all of us marketers at heart, it's very interesting to watch the trends as they are coming through. I was just saying that you on metal too, you said they had better results with metal. And if they some of the metal, correct me if I'm wrong, but Like anything else, attachment is a big thing. And some metal people have great attachment and other economical ones and those are probably the ones that didn't fare as well. But if you when you put a metal roof on with proper attachment, they can use standing pretty highly. I think that's what been one of the biggest takeaways for me, just as this is my own little personal TED talk for a second. but I coming from shingles, I don't think I realize I, you know, metal was metal to me. And that's really not the case. Metal is not just metal. There are so many different variations between thicknesses and gauges and hardnesses and paint systems and fastening systems. it's very versatile, but it does matter. And then installation making sure that you have really good quality installation is critical for it to perform. We have the same thing in our in our fluid applied. It's you know we take our systems to factory neutral 4470 class one rating, which is wind, fire, hail, foot traffic, all those things. Can you put on a real inexpensive barely there band-aid coating system? Yes. You know, hence the old term miracle in a bucket that we used to have for for coatings but if you put on a full system the right way. Yeah. Especially some and we spent a lot of money testing at FM and UL and Miami Dave and yeah you know, we get Texas insurance approval for the postal, you know, for hurricanes. So there's you can do things the right way and the wrong way and most people Would like it done the right way. That's one hundred percent true. I think so. And you know, I think it's interesting, just one last thing on this, then I want to switch to a different topic, but it's very interesting right now what the western states are dealing with when it comes to storms, wind, like we're talking about with Hawaii, and we know that now they're coming up the coast in Mexico and who knows, maybe California. But fire. Yeah. Fire has been such a huge issue across all the western states. And that is also shifting what people are looking at. what they're gonna purchase and how they're gonna purchase it. And so it we have a very influx market that we're seeing and being caused by a lot of different factors. So I wanna I wanna flip to technology. So I'm gonna start with Mark over here on technology. Wow. You go out there on the show floor, there are so many technology companies, but there is a lot of shifts that are going on all because of that Sweet little thing called AI. What is happening out there? What are you seeing from Job Nimbus? Yeah, it's it's really exciting. I would say that Job Nimbus is probably the most AI forward company I've ever seen. Like and I'm I it's kind of funny as a as a marketer, I'm like maybe the last adopter, right? But like watching our technology innovation, we recently released a solution that's an analytics tool inside of the platform that allows a roofer to just ask questions. You can just chat with you know, your analytics inside your CRM and ask, like, hey, why did I lose business in June? Right. Or what jobs are stuck and it'll serve you an answer. And and what we're hearing from our enterprise roofers is like, hey, that would have taken me two days to pull that report together. And AI is just like, you know, really rapidly expanding that. We're also seeing that there's a lot of innovation just in marketing and lead gen, you know. Our solution can help you from lead all the way to payment, even automating your your supplier orders with ABC and QXO, right? Yeah. but like AI across your processes will really speed up your efficiency, especially for a small operation that's the thinking about like how do I get more out of my business? How do I grow faster with the limited resources? If we have a labor shortage, that's very clear right now. Yeah. how can I how can I win more jobs faster? Well, AI will help you do that. And we see AI kind of the the vision for job nemus is to be kind of the type of solution that says AI or job nemus knows what I need to do and does it for me, bids a solution, answers the call, texts the customer back, sends an invoice, all of those things are very capable and like very like real in the next like six months, I would say. all of that's coming down the line. When you look at last year, this time, when we were presenting and talking during panels and all that kind of stuff, the big question was. Okay, we know AI is coming, we know it's important. How in the heck do we use it in our business? When you what you just said is sh shows how fast this market is moving and the fact that now you can have a strategy meeting with your AI in job nimbus, in yeah. And I think that's what the contractors have been waiting for, right? Yeah. Well, and I think what's different is there are hundreds of AI solutions that are popping up all the time, right? What's useful is actually having out-of-the-box AI that's built in your app, right? So you don't have to have like something married to Claude or go buy another Victor, some other tool. It's like built onto your data that you've already built your processes and integrated with EagleView and your your manufacturer and your homeowner financing. And so you've got this layer of like basically an extra employee, right? That can automate a lot of the tasks that you don't have to do so that your admins and your sales staff can focus on better. activity for their use of time, right? And more jobs, grow your business. Yeah. I and it feels to me so and I'm gonna say this mostly in the trades. since we already have such a labor crunch that AI isn't about people losing their jobs. It's about being able to do more with less people and who we already have. We want to keep every single person that's right and bring more into those trades. Melissa what are you seeing around technology and I know you're working on this a lot with your contractors. Absolutely. So roof measurements, takeoffs, all of that kind of thing, which typically it's taking data and then it takes people to look at it and to move things around and to reference parts and being able to use AI for that stuff. The more we can do that I think right, who who doesn't want to quote faster? I mean that's that's part of the secret quote faster, right? And then the other thing I would say is just analyzing data. So guys didn't become roofers typically because they wanted to look at spreadsheets. I mean, none of the roofers I knew they became roofers because they want to look at spreadsheets. Yeah. So I think some of the stuff that's even built in with like Copilot into things like Excel. I mean, it it's really, really powerful and it can make those guys' jobs everything from looking at profitability to finding gaps in their pricing to to figure out like, you know. where's the next opportunity for them analyzing their customer data? It's really powerful and it's allowing machines to do what machines can do faster and better than people so that people can do what people only can uniquely do. Right. Yeah. And it's amazing if they really learn how to use it well because you can ask it in we're talking about spreadsheets. Okay. You can feed it all whatever the series of information of spreadsheets are your dot your company accounting systems for that. Say I need a spreadsheet that I can give to my people that are layman and layman's terms. And it's really amazing that it'll spit out. Yeah. It'll give you something that isn't doesn't look like a spreadsheet, but but it gives them answers. And so there's a lot, you know that data mining for the answers. Yes. So powerful. Use it as a tool. Don't use it with the as an envil. Right. I agree. You want to review it and and look at that. the that type of stuff that'll start you on the road for marketing. you know, here's what I do best. You know, how how about I market my my our expertise and here's our expertise. Yeah. As opposed to just how it market. It has to be true. Yeah. It it's still all about the human relationships and everything that's going on. Okay, Ron, you're here at the show. I know you're very busy as an ex president, but when you go on the show floor, what kind of technologies are you looking for right now? Who do you want to talk to? Okay. I talked to CRM people. CRM people, I talked to a lot of aerial imagery, eagle view, people like that. AI, I mean I'm I I'm a little long in the tooth for AI. It's it's a lot for him to me. My son knows it really well. I don't. But on on the floor, mainly estimating programs, imagery, things like that. Yeah. Which we use a lot in Hawaii. I was gonna say it's so spread out. Right. I Eagle View almost shameless plug for Eagleview. Yeah, I love it. Almost every job I do. Yeah. It's very rare I go to a job in person because some jobs are 200 miles away. Yeah. Yeah, it's all about efficiency, right? I'm not gonna drive to Hilo and back. Who wants to field measure that? Right. I mean I'll I'll I'll put it in terms of me as a homeowner. I've re-roofed two different homes over the last like 10 years and I've also put in fences and such. And the ones that get moved back to me faster, right? Yeah. I'll end up Googling or taking a referral from a from a neighbor. And typically someone will say, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll be out there and I'll, you know, maybe they won't even make it out that day because they're stuck in traffic or whatever. Well, the one that actually got me a bid in less than 30 minutes, right? That definitely increased my trust, right? And I'm a modern homeowner, right? Like I'm I'm the demographic of I'm used to two day shipping from Amazon, right? I'm used to on-demand Netflix. I'm used to DoorDash, right? I expect a a contractor that I work with to at least use the latest and greatest to yeah, it shows me a sign of trust that they really have optimized their business and they know what they're doing to win trust with the customer. And modern customers, they expect that, right? Yeah. They really do. And I I think our industry, like contractors in general, right, in construction. has maybe been not known for that, right? The big joke about like they're gonna be here between eight and five and they never show up. Or they scribble something on a napkin. And I and I am I am thrilled that our industry is moving forward, right? To become the really the industry that that type of consumer that like right, I right, prime, prime for days, right? Right. And this is what we're expecting. And our industry is really growing up and becoming much more professional and responding to homeowners. Yeah, I think a better way. The other th the other thing that goes with that that I always want to point out there being an old timer, and that is once you do that, is be sure and have an AI will do this for you. They'll once you feed it in, and that's referrals. And that's right on references, because that's the second part of being a good shopper. It's you know, I as beaner manufacturer, I get calls all the time. well. So and so one of the contractors was out and he gave us a he gave us a bid on this route. Can you give me three more contractors that could come out and get I said, Why? Don't you trust him? Is there s is there some reason that you feel you have to go get? Because if you're just looking for a cheaper price, I guarantee you you can find it. And if when you find that cheaper price, I'll find you somebody that'll give you a cheaper price than that. You can you can downgrade yourself to as low as you want. But have have you checked their references? That's you know, that's what you want to do. You want to have a good prompt marketing with great references that you can then that's the two sides to the comfort level of being a shopper or something like I think. Old school was three bids. You gotta get three bids. Yes. We got three comparison and typically throw out the high, throw out the low, take the middle. Nowadays instant gratification. Yeah. I grab through Starbucks and if I wait 10 minutes, I'm pissed off. I thought this was fit. Yeah service. Why didn't I order it ahead of time mobile app? Yeah. To go to with what you said, if you had a budget of thirty two thousand dollars and I got you a bid in twenty minutes using satellite imagery and I hit your budget, I'm gonna sell you a roof. You are you know yeah, and I think it's I think it's the whole mentality is changing. The thought of having somebody in your home after COVID at your kitchen table for any length of time is like, you know, you just wanna go. No, I I want to build a relationship. In a way that I feel comfortable with. And that's going to be in a lot of different ways. Maybe it is, you know, that handshake in the front yard or you're coming in and visiting, but maybe it's also online, maybe it is things. So it's a lot of things technology has done to keep the relationship in it. I think that's the most important thing, keeping the relationship because people and once they have a contractor, they want to hold on to them. I mean, I know we do. Same thing looking as me as a homeowner. Once I have somebody I trust, I'm kinda like, Well, can't you do siding and can't you do other things? And you'll happily refer them to your neighbors and other friends too, right? That's the thing is like the magic number is like at least two hundred Google reviews. All right. That like typical rippers are like fifty to a hundred, right? But the ones that are peak performers, that we see in our annual benchmark report, peak performance is like two hundred plus, right? And each referral can easily lead to five more jobs if you have a great customer experience and you do a great job, right? but today's buyers, they're doing a lot of this research before they even contact. Right. They're doing all this is like what we call the dark funnel. And it's all about Google reviews and you know private networks on Facebook or what AI answers. Yeah, AI answers. my gosh. That's as a marketer, that's actually really hard for for for me because it's like SEO is no longer a thing. You got to focus on like You know, chatbot optimization which is on the back of web pages have to be there, Brandon. I mean it's a whole new world. That's where reviews really matter, actually. yeah, we'll come and we'll fix your website and emails and it'll have it'll have the right buzzwords and keywords and are you saying all the right things? And now it is becoming content and the reason. So what we, you know, we we have training crews. we go to Hawaii and we go all over the western United States and we train guys to put our products on because it's not a simple thing to just put on a good quality, fluid applied roof. It you we're really we're a manufacturer, but only fifty percent of what we do is made in a factory. The other fifty percent you do wrong in the field or we're and we rely on you much more than some other that's entities. And it's and it's It's a little bit scary because not everybody is qualified for that. So anyway, we go out, but when we do it, we do videos, we do we do infield training, and then we put that up on our site. That becomes content. And if you ask AI to look for something, they don't look for SEO, buzzwords, keyword phrases. They go on and look at your content. And if you've got good content, all of a sudden you rise to the top of the list. Exactly. So content is now becoming which what it should be. Again, an important factor in in building you know your technology of your business and real content, not just something stuffed with a bunch of words, real content that's going out there and also no shameless plug care, but AI wants to validate it too. So they want to see you and your articles and everything on Roofers Coffee Shop, on other your chamber of commerce, you know, they want to see that other people are publishing your content and your directories too. So it's a whole new game. Yeah, it is. It's like a credibility signal. I always laugh because at least in the technology world, for a long time PR wasn't like it was kind of dead for a little while. And now PR is back. Like I'm high five, I'm high fiving you over here. PR is back. We've got articles placed on you know RCS all the time and like because it drives a credibility signal. Yeah. Right. It's kind of a spider web on the end. So I think it's weird as we talk about AI, ca I'm like having this moment because right, AI, because AI is becoming what it is. the need for actually real human created good content behind it. You can't have you can't have AI slop that then AI reads and creates more AI slop. I we can. It's happening all the time, but people are getting the ick. Yeah over it. Good result. What AI brings up isn't done in a vacuum. Right. Yeah. It required something real and substantive on the back end. And so I do love what's kind of happening as a content creator. And you're like, someone has to create the good stuff for it to read. I sit with Vicky all the time. AI. AI. It has it has the doesn't mean it's bad. It just means They didn't take it the step further and bring it up. But I think go ahead. I was gonna say events like this, right, are gonna become much more important in the future because everything's going so digital, right? Everything's so AI led that I think humans are just gonna crave dig like in person experiences way more because it's so much more trustworthy in the future. And I think these kind of I just to say this kind of thank you so much, because when you have this kind of conversation. And this conversation that is fed through multimedia, through articles that we follow up with and stuff like that. Yep. That's the person. That's a people to people part of it that I think digital can bring. And it it I don't know, for me now of course, I'm very excited about all this. I think it's awesome. But I worry sometimes about the contractors too because I don't and then Mark, I love what you're doing in educating contractors. So when I did my class this morning, we talked about, you know, one of the things that's happening with Google and online a and AI discovery is you need to have online estimating. Well a lot of contractors go, I'm not doing that, but that's what it's looking for now. So there's all these changes that are going on. So like you said, these kind of classes, this kind of information, well they need it. You know, I'm gonna give a plug to a company that I don't even think is even here. I'm not sure. but we started using a long time ago. And it's a very basic level of tech getting technical, and that is company cam. There a lot of people know company cam. They're out there great partner with them. We started with when they first started out there as a manufacturer. So any of my reps that are out walking roofs, they're taking pictures and instead of uploading them and putting them on the because they're too big. They have to put them on the thumb drive and send them in and then at the end of the day you upload them and look at what they looked at. I said every morning, look I I can tell you where all my people are from Texas to to Northern California to Arizona and what roofs they're on. When I'm looking at them in real time as they're popping up up there, both videos, and then you have a record for for history that you put in with your if you're if you're making a presentation, it's find this roof that we did it's similar to it's they have there's so many aspects to it that is even goes much beyond what we as a manufacturer use contractors would use it much yeah if you have guys out there just taking pictures and bringing them in at the end the day, you're way behind the code. And I and I should be paid from them because I I I share it with so many let's say if you're a contractor and you're not using company pan, you're you're you're not smart. I know. And it's the documentation's wild. Go ahead. Well, it's similar on the invoicing end, not just photo capture for like the whole job. Like I talked to a rooper the other day. It's like, hey, I I get time to like go through invoices and send them out like on Saturdays, right? And that shortens it window for like, you know, his cash flow management and and things like that. And so just being able to have a system that automates that, it just like it knows the job, it sends out the invoice, you get up text to pay. And and optimize your own cash flow as a business so that you can, you know, work through paying your crews and like getting through the next job, like AI and these types of technology solutions can really make your business more efficient. Can it help those small roofing contractors so much to be leading and be in front of it? Okay, this could go on for hours because I'm telling you, they I'm loving this conversation so much. It's awesome. But what I'd like to do, since we're coming up on the top of the hour. It I would love to kind of go through with all of you and just pick your brain. What are some thoughts that you think contractors should be thinking about for twenty twenty seven? What is you know, because we're going into fourth quarter, this is the traditional planning time, not in Hawaii right now, they're still roofing, but this is the traditional planning time. what should what are some of the top things that you think contractors should be doing right now to get ready to grow their business or even maintain and See the growth that we're hoping from the economy. Thank you for that insight. Helpful. in twenty twenty seven. Mark, do you want to start us out? Yeah. I'll avoid the shameless plug for for job numbers, but I will say the growing roofers, the best roofers really like will think about their processes first, right? Because any AI or tech on top of that process is just gonna make it worse. So I would Be thinking about your processes from lead capture to sales process, production processes and payment collection, and map it all out on the ideal way that you want to run your business and then find technology that marries that, that helps you speed it up and finds efficiencies that can grow your business at scale. because you know, the the peak performing you know, roofers that we see, they they have aspirations to be large multi-location roofers. They want to grow their business, right? And And technology can help them do that, but they need to map their processes first. As they're going through. one of the things too that I and I'm so I'm gonna do the shameless plug for you, but one of the things I think so important in fourth quarter and going into it before you get to IRE in February is do some demos. Take the time to and not just the business owner, have your team do the demos so they can see what's going on there because this is the time to take advantage. Yeah. And there's a lot of technology out there. I would think about tried and true tech versus when I I've had conversations with a lot of roofers that are by coding solutions that I think those are going to be hard to maintain over time. I would look at tried and true technology that has AI built in, that's trusted by, you know, a large cohort of roofing solutions. And yeah, definitely demo and and figure out what's what's how what's my growth lever for next year as I'm prepping for storm season or you know, economic return. How can software help me achieve what I'm looking for in my business? Do you're planning? Do you're planning now? Greg, what's some of your advice for 2027? Well, I I have a couple of things. One is first of all, don't be everything to everybody. you know, if you do something well, you know, pick pick something and don't be afraid to walk away from something just because I'm I'm afraid to lose a job. Because I I find some good contractors doing poor work on things they don't understand, but just because they they they want to do that. So Be qualified in what you do. first of all, to get better results, to get better referrals, you'll get all that. but secondly, is maybe don't look just down the road next year. look down the road a ways. If you plan on being in business, or maybe you've been in business a long time, keep good records because those records are mine. I'm I'm running into that right now. I have the same company you have that's built my database for you now that we're filling in. We have 25, 30 years of warranties and jobs that that we have. It's amazing. But we can't half of them were facts in information and and putting all that in there. And why is that? Because so many of these roofs are are up for renewal or maintenance, or are you keeping care of them? And that can become a real mind end its own, especially in commercial roofing where they put built up roofs on. Yeah. A lot of good quality commercial roofers built Roofs on 15 to 20 years ago. And now those roofs are qualified for either a re-roof or a good maintenance system to give them a longer time. But they they have to go back through card files or no files. Yeah, yeah. I try to encourage one large company in Northern California. They they called me and said, you know, I'm I'm gonna hire this new guy. What what should I have him do? Because we like to sell more maintenance systems. And I said, Well, if you have records. Have them do nothing but sit and go through your records and make calls because some of those building owners are going to be there. and they'll, hey, we put that roof on 17 years ago and we can come out and get another 10 years or good, whatever. So keeping good records, looking for few future referrals and and don't spread yourself too thin on too many processes. That's it. And digital eyes. Yeah. Digilize it. That's the key right there. If it's still not, if it's still in those filing cabinets, get it in to a good CRM system. Yeah. I was about to get a plug for CRMs. I was like, man, it'll do it'll do that mets for you. It'll like you're all the ones that are seventeen years old and it'll automatically email them or text them. Fantastic lead intelligence right there. Hey, you know exactly who needs like within fifteen years needs a re route or that's right. New s new solution. Why not? Mark's going, yeah, that's good stuff. Sounds like data mining. Yeah, that's good. I am gonna give a shameless plug for metal, maybe not just for myself, but you know, some economists are saying that the construction market's gonna be flat next year to down. So in those kinds of markets, the idea that you're gonna sell more of the same thing that you've been selling is high is probably unlikely. So I encourage guys to go out and actually add a product. Metal's being installed. there are other composite materials that are being installed. Go actually get Do something else, right? Add something. You don't have to switch, just add something because it's being installed. You're just not getting a piece of it. And the the latest data that I got, it's like metal roofing is eight billion dollars a year in the US. So it's not, it's not a drop, right? And it's growing, even when some other traditional materials, their market has been shrinking. metal's been growing. So that's that's what I want to tell guys is like you don't have to switch. You can add something and create a new revenue stream for stuff, even in a market that's gonna be flatter down. Right. And now's the time. Training. my God. Yeah. Do the training is and that's the deal, 'cause to his point, you don't want if you're gonna do it, do it well and let's spend the off season. If you make the decision in twenty seven, in spring of twenty seven, that I wanna be good at this, you need to get the training now, and and pair up with a good manufacturer that can help you. Right. And get your teams where they need to be. Okay, Ron, bring us home. What's your advice? Mine is about education, learning. I mean We're not reinventing the wheel here when we go through these events. We're reinforcing what we already knew and gleaning information from other people. And there used to be a gentleman that presented here, you will remember Monroe Porter. yeah. Came here many, many years. Good old southern boy. And he's told the story about two people that were chopping wood. And the one guy cut wood twelve hours, never stopped except to have a drink of water. The other guy stopped for an hour and cut more wood. He said, How did you do that? I worked an hour longer than you. And he said, I sharpened my axe. that's so good. He always equated education and learning to sharpening your axe. That's great. And I I always go into the fourth quarter reflecting on what I I did right and did wrong. Yeah. What I want to do better next year, and teaching my people, this worked for us, this didn't. Yeah. And what I learned here, I take home. Yeah, and you know that it's important. we've always supported education. supported the Davis Foundation in different ways over the years. But there was a time when I started pushing back. And that was when every one of the scholarships and that went to college. Right. And I said if you're not gonna spend some of that money on trade, exactly. Then I'm not gonna support you. Exactly. Because all our guys and the and the kids from the foreman and all that. A lot of those are not gonna go to college and a lot of them don't need to go to college, but they can make a lot of money in this business being a roofing contractor and the they'll learn that from trade. The same thing in electrical and plumbing and all that. And so I think most of them have adopted their scholarships go to trade. They do. There was a time it was all college. I know. And I and I I plot against that. I think education is and that has changed. I think it's shifting a lot, yeah quite a bit. And the money going to to help with apprenticeship programs, vocational schools. Yeah, it's important. And I'm gonna say the last thing, and Ron didn't say it, but I'm going to get involved with your association. That is my thing for twenty twenty seven. Get involved with your associations, become a if you're Western states, become a member of Western states, become a member of NRCA or whatever your local or regional associations are, because this is where, to your point, Right? As AI and that digital world continues to take off, this is going to be more important than ever. So we encourage you to be a part of here. And I want to say thank you to the Western States staff and everything that they've done for this Western Roofing Expo. It's been amazing. It's amazing. Thank you for letting us go a little bit long here on this copy conversations. But I want to say thank you. You guys have been, I mean, seriously, we could go another hour. Absolutely. I know we need some water, but besides that, we'd be good. Thank you so much for being here with us today and for all your wisdom. Thank you for watching. We are back with many other interviews the rest of today and all day tomorrow. So hopefully Megan and I will have a voice when this is all done. Thank you so much for watching and we'll see you next time on Coffee Conversations. Yeah. Thanks for having us.