Latest / Senior Pet Talk | for dogs + cats / 14. Senior Pet Care in General Practice with Dr. Hunter (Part 1)

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14. Senior Pet Care in General Practice with Dr. Hunter (Part 1) · Senior Pet Talk | for dogs + cats

• speaker-0: You are listening to Senior Pet Talk, the show where we combine Western and Chinese medicine to give senior dog and cat parents the knowledge, the clarity, and the confidence to make sure that your pets' senior years are their best years yet. I'm Dr. Amanda Stefan. Let's get started. Welcome to the Senior Pet Talk Podcast. I am Dr. Ameda Stefan. I am here today with one of my best friends, Dr. Terrence Hunter, and he owns his own practice now. So we are going to do a little QA about general practice, veterinary medicine in connection with senior pets. So, Dr. Hanno, do you want to tell us? I know you love talking about your graduation school. So when you graduated, if you're comfortable with that, school. speaker-1: Talk about my school, War Eagle. So all the Auburn people out there, War Eagle. I graduated from Auburn University, College of Veterinary Medicine in two thousand and nine. Also went there for undergrad. I bleed orange and blue. After graduating from Auburn, I moved to South Carolina two thousand and nine. Really long time ago. And I've been here since. And when I moved here, I met one of my best friends ever, Doctor Stefan, and the rest is history. speaker-0: Yeah. And at that point I was a kennel staff worker. So it was an interesting ⁓ time frame. But it was really amazing for me to have someone who became a really wonderful mentor to me and who ended up being the person who ⁓ hooded me at graduation. And we've known each other for going on fifteen, twenty years now, and finally did just this week got to actually work together as veterinarians. So that was fun. speaker-1: Rods. speaker-0: So I wanna start with because we have had a lot of time together. So I want to start with just some fun stories as like icebreakers to get us talking about everything. So what is one of your favorite memories of us working together? speaker-1: That's a deep cut in so many. Man, y'all might have me back so we can talk about other ones, but I'm just gonna say some keywords and see if you know what I'm talking about before I actually get to one that I actually wanna talk about. Goat hooves. You remember you know what that you know what that means? Goat hools. We gotta talk about that at some point. Let's see. What's another one? Okay, chicken suture. Chicken suture? All right, but ⁓ speaker-0: Yeah, that is. ⁓ my gosh. Yes. speaker-1: Seriously, the one I'm gonna talk about probably is one that's near and dear to your heart that I thought about and I was like, I cannot not talk about Floyd. Aww. When you first got Floyd, she came in with this big, massive looking dog that was just laying there and his name was Floyd. So I'm just like, Floyd? I'm like, is he named after Floyd Mayweather, the boxer? I'm like, is he gonna be mean? He's coming attack me? What's going on? And he just laid there. He speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: Didn't do too much. I did everything, waiting for him to try to snap and bite me. He never did. Perfect dog. And at some point, I can't remember why. We had to sedate him for something. And I just remember when wait for Floyd to wake up. We were like, Floyd's not waking up. He's like he should be waking up now. Nope, Floyd was awake. He just kind of was laying there sleeping. Looked at us and just kind of laid back down. But I speaker-0: That was just him. speaker-1: Correct me if I'm wrong, Florida's probably one of the main reasons you got into like the senior pets though. speaker-0: Yeah, yeah. Floyd was is pretty much like the pivot in my like entire career. 'Cause taking care of him and just all the things that I went through with him really just kind of made me want to do senior pet care focused and help other people to not feel so alone. So, you know, there's something like you started, speaker-1: He was all nice and young, got around really good, but didn't he have heartworms? speaker-0: Yeah, when we got him he had heartworms. I think we sedated him 'cause he had bite marks on him. speaker-1: He did. Yeah. ⁓ you have to ex excuse my old brain, but that's what it was. speaker-0: Yeah, he had been suspect dogfight victim of some caliber. And I picked him up from this house and brought him in like a Saturday afternoon. We were closed, but I called you and I was like, look, that I don't know what's going on, but we need to like see him. So we got together and he he had a bunch of bite marks that we had to flush and close and look at. And then we obviously tested him for heartworms. He was positive. I think he had a lot of other intestinal parasites. Yeah, it's some like worn down teeth and stuff like that. So yeah, it was it was definitely the changing point in my career for sure. speaker-1: Completely, yeah. Bringing back memories now. A summer. Yeah. Yeah, that was probably Yeah, that was probably fifteen years ago, maybe. Yeah. We're really aging ourselves now. So let's talk about something else. But yeah, that was one of my memories that I just remember because you got Floyd. I know you went out to bed school. Yeah. Floyd went with you. Saw Floyd again. He had gotten old and out. Just kind of going through everything with him. But and one thing, Floyd was like, I just remember he was chestnut brindle like my miles. Yes. speaker-0: Yes. speaker-1: Completely different personalities. Miles Miles was a wild man, but it's like we both had our little dogs that grew old with us. That was your growing old dog and Miles was mine. So around the same time. But that's the memory that I remember all the stuff that you did with Floyd, all the pictures, you going hiking with Floyd, and you doing this with Floyd. You first get in Floyd and not a mean bone in his body. speaker-0: He was the nicest dog. Yeah, I would say one of my favorite memories is now you bring up Miles because ⁓ there's so many. Christina, you'll era, do you need a bottle moment? speaker-1: ⁓ don't no, don't do that to me now. Just stay goat feet. We're not gonna think about Christine Nagulin. speaker-0: ⁓ gosh. But one of one of the best ones is Miles was Dr. Hunter's dog and he had this wonderful trick where he would pretend to like chase his butt. Gotcha butt. And he would like chase it. And Miles would tuck his butt down and he would run it. Then he would like run with his butt on the couch because it's cute. ⁓ he was so happy. ⁓ my gosh. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. speaker-0: Okay. This may be one of the other two that you mentioned then was the craziest memory that you have of us working together. speaker-1: ⁓ we got so many of those, but this I don't know. It was just a weird Saturday morning. I come into the clinic. I was overworked and I was tired out first place. There's a broom balancing in the middle of the exam. Y'all said something about the way the earth was ⁓ positioned or something can balance stuff. It was a broom just balanced in the middle of the exam room and then like, okay, that's cool. We got a broom. I went to eat a donut and then all of a sudden a bird die bombed on me. Remember that? speaker-0: It did. Yeah. We had donuts at the break room. One of the girls at the front desk has started there was something going on in the universe where like you could stand a broom straight up in the middle of the lobby and it just stood there and on you know, on a knee flat surface. And that was standing. So it kind of looked like we had some witchcraft going on in the lobby. And then yeah, somehow a birth speaker-1: Yeah, this is a wild bird. This isn't somebody that's like parakeet on a call. It's just a random bird just died on three. speaker-0: got into the clinic and yeah, I have a video somewhere or a picture somewhere of you flying you flew down so quickly that the hood. speaker-1: Somebody else has a picture that I know you didn't take the picture because you're in the background eating a donut laughing. I have that picture. But that was one of the weirdest days ever for me. I mean, I know this stuff isn't vet there. We'll get to that in a minute. We're just talking about stories, but I guess it is. We were at work. speaker-0: Yeah, I think that's the that's the great thing is finding a place and the people that make vetmed fun because there's a lot of things that can go through veterinary medicine that's very difficult to mentally draining, things like that. So being able to work alongside people that really make you laugh and have a good time together is paramount, I feel like, for like our mental speaker-1: Yes, it definitely is. I mean you're gonna be around these people most of your day, most of your life. Yeah. Be around some people you enjoy. You're gonna laugh with them, you're gonna cry with them, you're gonna have some good times and bad times. speaker-0: Yeah, definitely. So I think one of the moments for me that made me appreciate you a lot was I was learning, obviously. I did not know anything when I came into this. I started working in the kennels at this clinic and Dr. Hunter came into this clinic as a new graduate. Yeah. We kind of learned and grew together. It was amazing. One of the things I I dropped a batril bottle. speaker-1: So I didn't know that much either. speaker-0: And it shattered. At this put at if you don't know Bachel is an antibiotic, a bottle of it has to be a couple hundred dollars. Has to be speaker-1: Yeah, it yeah, it wasn't the generic, it was the name brand Beatrial. ⁓ speaker-0: And you were so nice about it, you were like, Okay, well, I can't believe that happened, but we'll just we'll clean it up and we'll figure it out. We're gonna go from there. speaker-1: I wasn't down either, so I didn't stress that much. speaker-0: Yeah. It was nice. And then there was the the time the power went out or the drill the drill we were doing dental cleaning. We were doing digital cleaning. And yeah, you had to wind up using like a chisel to work on one of our one of our receptions. Yeah. Yeah. It was crazy. Which is speaker-1: Yeah. Take a canine tube out. speaker-0: Also an ode to your patience level because that is intense. Knowing what I know now, like that is that is intense. I probably would have had to cry on the corner for a minute or speaker-1: I mean, if y'all didn't know by our accents by now, we're country folk. We know how to make do. Well, maybe not hers as much as mine, but yeah. And that was that was when you learn sometimes you gotta think outside of the box. And that's one of the things that I love our first job for. It taught me how to do that. I mean, that was I actually all this stuff we're talking about, for some reason or not, it's documented. I have a picture of that canine tooth I got out. I was so proud of myself. Yeah. The dog did great, by the way. speaker-0: It did he did wonderful. Yeah, I have a picture of you like really excitedly holding it when you finally got it out. speaker-1: Yep, and he's still he's still doing good. Is he? He's like he is gonna be seventeen years old. ⁓ my gosh. Yeah, he's an old man. speaker-0: God. So crazy. Yeah. No, I love that. Okay. So I guess moments you'll never forget. One of the we do we have to touch on these, the goats and the chickens. So I grew up with a lot of different animals in life and we would hang out at work, but we also had a large group of people who would hang out after work. I had goats at the time. My parents had two goats and We were hanging out and decided that the goats were limping. I think you picked up on that. And we were like, Okay, well, let's trim their hoobs. So we have like half of the staff from our veterinary clinic trying to wrangle these goats and trim their hoobs. speaker-1: They were not happy about it. But we got it done and no goats were harmed in the making that video. speaker-0: They were great. And they walked much better afterwards. So that was that was fun. So even though small animal veterinarians, there's still some speaker-1: Yeah. Actually 'cause at the time like I mean I love I to this day I love goats. I don't know, it's something something about kids. They're so cute. I mean, human kids. I'm talking about goats right now. Yeah. But they are so cute. So to this day I just still have an affinity for goats. And so yeah, I really enjoyed that. I was able I felt like, ⁓ man, I'm getting to do some of the things I love, even though I'm a small animal. speaker-0: Yeah, Right. And the chicken that made me I'm I'm fairly vegetarian at this point in my life anyways, but like that made me stop eating chicken for a very long time. My nephew at the time, who is now seventeen years old, but at the time he was probably like two or three. I know. He he had a favorite chicken. And my parents had probably ten chickens. This chicken, I don't even remember what her name was. speaker-1: I was gonna ask you that 'cause I know she had a you could tell that he named that chicken 'cause they had a funny night. speaker-0: But she got attacked and had a cut down her back. And of course, you know, if it had been it was a chicken. If it had been any other chicken, it probably would have been a different conversation that we had. But I took this chicken in and I'm so grateful for you because you just go with the flow of all the things that happened at that point. And I was like, Look, I know this is silly, but this is his favorite chicken. I can't let this chicken die. We have to suture it up and fix it. So, you know, not a lot of experience in chicken. speaker-1: No, that that was the first chicken I ever sutured and I was terrified. I was terrified because she told me all that. She put that pressure on me. You have to save this chicken. Yeah. And I'm just like I don't know what to do. I mean, I know I gotta suture, but this skin is so different. speaker-0: But Yeah. We looked up like what pay medications we could give it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Put it under anesthesia, you suture it up, chicken wine home. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: She lived a wonderful life on the other side of that and it was so interesting, but it was it was good. It was learning. speaker-1: You couldn't tell me nothing after that. I was like, ⁓ man, I'm the best veterinaire in the world. I can fix anything. When that chicken started pecking and eating, I was like, I can fix it all. So I didn't know what thing at the time. speaker-0: Next day, yeah. Yeah. If you're a veterinarian, don't be afraid to try new things because you are always gonna have to figure it out at some point. We're always learning. There's a reason it's called practicing medicine because we're always learning new things. So I think it's speaker-1: You always talk about how I help you to become the vet. Do you all no, you helped me to become the vet I am because you kept challenging me with this stuff because you didn't realize you're like, You got out of school, you can see any animal, can't you? I'm like, No, I can hang. Please stop. speaker-0: I definitely had the misconception of like, ⁓ you learned how to treat everything. You could treat it all, right? Like we're gonna see fish, we're gonna do all this and yeah. But you you well with the flow of things and it was it was amazing. So yeah, it was a lot of fun. So I wanna get into a couple questions for senior pet parents, just from a general practitioner. I know your clinic has general practice and urgent care. So you see a kind of mixed bag of things, mostly small animal and I am curious from your perspective. I know I do like in-home senior dog and cat care all the time. I'm in the thick of it. But like what you see in a mixed world of seeing everything from a puppy and a kitten to a senior. What percent of pets do you think that you see are seniors? And do you think that's shifted over the years? speaker-1: Well, I'm gonna start by answering the last part of that question. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, medicine's gotten better. We're keeping animals around longer. So yes, we are seeing more senior animals, which is great. I mean, I love to see these animals where I'm at that part of my career now where I'm seeing these animals like when they come in as puppies and then I'm able to see them as senior dogs and the whole conversation's change. Yeah. Throughout that time. But as far as like the percentage, I think it's like around forty four percent of the ⁓ pets are senior animals, but You also have to think what defines a senior animal. Like I mean, for example, a seven year old Chihuahua versus a seven year old gray dame. Right. They're not on the same level. Yeah. And then if you ask a dog food company, they're gonna say anything seven and older. Right. But I go by like when they're about at that last twenty five percent of their lifespan, they're around seniors as far as dogs. Cats? Now cats, yeah, it's around maybe ten years old. I'm thinking it's what we c call seniors, so I'm thinking it is probably about around that forty percent. Yeah. If not higher. D I see there's senior enemy. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. I think so. I think the latest stat I saw was with dogs, it's up to sixty percent of what you're seeing in practice and now is is seniors. So yeah, I mean, I think I agree. Like our medicine has improved much to what social media will make you think. Like pets are actually living longer now than they had historically. So we are having to transition a lot of what we do because we are taking care of a different generation and we're taking care of pets that mean different things to people than I feel like we, you know, might have had relationships with pets previously. Right. What do you look for in like a senior dog or cat appointment that an owner may not notice or even think about or not even be on the radar? speaker-1: No. Well, I'll come in room, some of the clients probably think I'm crazy. I'll open the door, I won't come right in, I'll just stop and look at the pet. I'm just trying to see the that initial greeting they get. Every pet's different. Some of ⁓ are gonna run up to me and greet me, some are gonna run under the chair and hide or hide behind the owner, some are gonna run in the corner, but the thing I'm saying right now is they run. So I'm looking to see are are you a runner? If I've seen you before, did you get up and run or did you just kind of to slowly pick yourself up and walk away from me or kind of walk slow to me and wag their tail and decide, nope, you're not worth the walk and stop there. So I'm looking for like that body language. I'm looking for how are they walking. I'm looking for limping. I'm looking for muscle loss, swollen joints. I'm looking for little lumps that the owner may not even notice, changes in the breathing, just the body language. My exam starts as soon as I open that door. I'll greet the owner, I'll greet the pet and even sometimes just look at the owner's face. Some owners they come there smile and they're happy, you know, okay, this is a happy visit. They look at you and they just kinda halfway smile, shake their head, looking for all that, but yeah, I'm looking for body language in the pets. They will let you know a lot, dogs, especially cats. They're really good at hiding that stuff, but I check for these things with cats, but cats are not small dogs. I mean, the way we approach them is senior pets. completely different as well, which we might hit on that in a little bit. But pretty much I'm looking for the little things that the owner might not notice like how fast they get up, how fast they run. speaker-0: Yeah. Because an owner may just think, ⁓ well, they're just getting older, so I expect them to be slowing down or something like that. And you say, Well, I saw him six months ago and he popped right up and ran over to me. But today he's like limping and it it's more prominent and maybe he's breathing a little heavier and those types of things change what you recommend as far as, you know, x rays or looking deeper into certain things that the owners just think, ⁓ well, yeah, he's getting slower because he's old. And they don't really put all that stuff together. So that's that's super important, right? And then yeah, we know cats, they're not r usually running around the room. No. They're running away from speaker-1: Yeah, they're not gonna I've never ⁓ maybe one or two cats that ran and greeted me, but I think that I was just in the way and they was trying to get to the other side of the door. ⁓ speaker-0: Right. So they're a little bit harder to evaluate. And I think that's important. And what I talk to senior cat parents about a lot is senior cats don't show us really anything until there's five things wrong. Yeah. So they'll there'll be a lot going on and then they'll be like, Well, I can't I I just can't compensate anymore. And so now I'm gonna show you that speaker-1: So good at hiding stuff. speaker-0: ⁓ I have arthritis and dementia and I'm having some breathing difficulties and I probably have kidney disease now and you know, all these other things going on. So yeah. What do you think that senior pet parents often come in maybe too late for that you wish they had come in for months prior, a year prior? speaker-1: I'm gonna I'm gonna say arthritis. Yeah. Because I mean a lot of times like you just said it, you said they might just contribute a lot of things to like them getting old and them slowing down. It's just because they're old, but no, it might be actually pain. They're not they're slowing down because it hurts to do those things. So not their fault. They just I mean, we need to educate them on and I think we need to be proactive in letting them know, look for these things. It might not be them just getting old. Right. that might be their subtle ways and I wanna s I read the owners come in and say I think versus ⁓ I know. Like say, I think my dog might be getting up a little slower versus I know my dog's getting up slower. My dog's limping. My dog's leg my dog's right leg is smaller than the left 'cause we got muscle loss there. It's you wanna try to slow that stuff down. I wanna s see the animal and I wanna notice it before the owner so we can try to slow that progression down on a lot of these. So and cats. It's It's really hard. But look for those things. Like he doesn't jump to the top of the cat tree anymore or she's she's going on the floor and maybe she don't want to go all the way to the litter box. Yeah. Maybe he he wants to get up there, but he it hurts too bad. So ⁓ arthritis would be one of the big things I would say are orthopedic issues, I should say that I wish they would come in, even if it's just I have to tell them, okay, let's just watch. But especially with cats. Because they don't like dogs, the the correlation between X rays and arthritis should the s signs on X rays aren't the same as dogs. So a lot of times we might not see anything on that, but we we know they're slowing down. We can be a little proactive with those things. So I'm I'm gonna say arthritis will be mine. Yeah. How about you? Do you have a? Just curious. speaker-0: think dementia for me is is a big one because people don't realize the changes that they're having when he's just not like responding to me anymore or they don't greet me at the door anymore or they, you know, don't really want to sit next to me at night anymore. Like they're more distant or they're not maintaining contact or they're forgetting some of the tricks that they used to know. And, you know, as pet parents, I think oftentimes we think, ⁓ well speaker-1: Yeah, that's yeah, that's a good speaker-0: if they're not doing this trick anymore, it's just because they are older and they don't feel like doing it. But sometimes it could be they truly forgot how to do the trick or they're peeing in the house a little bit or oftentimes they're wandering around the house, especially at night. Sundowning is a big one. So they're wandering the house at night and they're, you know, cats are yowling and dogs are wandering and barking or not wanting to sleep with the pet parent anymore. And they just assume this is normal, but truly with dementia and arthritis, it's one of those things where if we get ahead of it early, there's so much more we can do as opposed to coming into it when there's been so much damage, there's not really great answers on that that back side of things. So it gets a lot harder to treat for sure. speaker-1: Yeah. Dementia, the cognitive dysfunction, that's a that's a hard one. Yeah. That's that's really a hard one. speaker-0: And both of those, I think it's something we don't talk about enough, is both of those diseases are things that we often have end of life conversations for. speaker-1: Yeah. Especially a lot of the dementia. Yeah. Like you said, and that's one that like hey, it slipped under radar media even thinking now I'm just like, Yeah, that one too, that one too. That's that's gonna be one B for me. I'm still gonna stick with my arthritis, but yeah, dementia's right under that. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. I think it's important for us as veterinarians and our staff to ask the right questions when it comes to those appointments. Yeah. If they come in, they may say, ⁓ yeah, he's fine. Everything's great. But what they're not seeing is, ⁓ yeah, he is wandering the house at night now. He's waking up more throughout the night. Or hey, he is stretching more when he first gets up, or my cat is now jumping onto the chair and then onto the tree as opposed to straight up onto the tree. You know, those subtle things are really important. I feel like for us, a good history gives us a lot more information a lot of times than a physical exam well. So having that really good history consultation with people. speaker-1: Think yeah, we gotta we have to have a plan too. Because a lot of times they'll hit it with the just. They'll be like, ⁓ it's just sundowners. ⁓ it's just them slowing down. It's just arthritis. Yeah. Like almost to the point where they're saying it's just that. No need to treat. Right. And I think we sometimes we might go with the flow. Like, yeah, it's just that. But no, we need to start like having a plan. Yeah. Like, no, it's not just that. Let's let's do something about it. We're not gonna like we'll probably touch on this. A lot of this senior stuff, we're not gonna cure it. But we can slow the progression down. We can improve the quality of life. So let's not just look at it as a just. Let's look at it as a, okay, let's slow this down. speaker-0: Right. Yeah. And I think that's an important point that you make that I've we've talked about off screen before is you're like, well they you know, a lot of times people expect us to make them not seventeen years old anymore. Like they want us to make and as a veterinarian, like we always want to fix it, right? Like our type A personality wants to fix the problem. And with senior pet care, I think a lot of the reason that a lot of veterinarians don't dive as far into it is because it's not gonna be an instant gratification. You're not gonna get like years back a lot of times with with the things that we do. And it's very intense. There's a lot of little tweaks to happen and it can seem not as gratifying on the other side of it. But from a pet parent's perspective, what I've learned doing in home care is like those little improvements can Help their quality of life so much. And pet parents really appreciate that. Like any sort of movement we get back towards a better quality of life. Like, hey, they're they're jumping up in the morning and want to go run outside again. Like that's such a simple thing, but it's something we can give them back if we improve their muscle mass or if we improve their pain scale. You know, those simple things that we do I think is really important. And as veterinarians, a lot of times it's hard for us to realize like just a small improvement. is a huge improvement in a pet parent's mind. speaker-1: Yeah. Setting those realistic goals with them. Yeah. We have to let them know. Like you said, let them know right off the bat. You're not gonna see that dog you saw ten years ago. But I'm gonna help you enjoy your dog now. Yeah. And these are some of the things we're gonna do. speaker-0: Right. And having the conversation of like loving them in this era is different. You know, so it may not be we're going on a hike, you know, and we're, you know, gonna go on a five mile walk or we're gonna go play in the water or things like that. Like it may be, hey, you're pushing him around in a stroller, or we're gonna go on a walk around the block and just smell everything, or you know, we're gonna have more Netflix and couch time. Like We're gonna do it that love is gonna look a little different these days, but it doesn't mean that it's any less. It just means that we have to kinda tweak. speaker-1: It's hard. It's a it's a lifestyle change for yeah. I mean, you think about it as far as like going to people stuff. I mean, I'm not doing the same things I did twenty years ago. ⁓ I wish I could. I wish I could go to my doctor and a but I'm enjoying things now and I s I could still in I can still do a few things, don't get me wrong, but I know so we just have to let them know that too. speaker-0: Right. And we go through the same thing. Like I know Miles used to run with you all the time. And that was that. Lloyd used to run with me. Yeah. And when you hit that moment where they can't go run with you anymore, like you mourn that. speaker-1: Yeah, 'cause they want to. But yeah, I found other things he enjoyed. He he liked walking. speaker-0: Yep. Yep. So go on the recovery walk. Right. So and then what do you think is a normal aging change that pet parents come in for and they seem alarmed by, but it's normal. speaker-1: You probably know this one too. Good old nuclear or lenticulosclerosis. How many times? ⁓ Doc, my dog has cataract. I've had some argue with me after I diagnosed it if nucleosclerosis or lenticulosclerosis is a it's a normal agent change in a lens. Those those fibers, as time goes by, they compact, they make the lens look a little more opaque, just like they look with cataracts sometimes. The difference is speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: If I try to look through the eye, I can still look through lenticulosclerosis. I can still see all that wiring back there, everything, spine. Doesn't really affect vision, unlike cataracts. So unless we tell me why ⁓ doc, you're gonna see cataracts. I'm like, no, I'm nodding. I'm like, this is a fun conversation though, because eventually, even if they wanna argue, I'm like, Your dog can see. So we'll just we'll just go with whatever you want, but it's nothing to treat right now. If you wanna go to an ophthalmologist, be my guest. But I see a lot of those. They come in, they say they have cataracts. And then I have those where I tell them it's not. ⁓ you would have thought I just told ⁓ they won a lottery. They're so excited to know their dog does not have cataracts. They make it seem like I fixed their dog. I'm like, I'll take it. Yeah. Yeah. But that's when I see. I don't that's the number one for me. How about you? speaker-0: I think sclerosis is a big one for sure. Like the hey, and it happens in cats too. We don't see it as much, but you know, it can happen in cats and it's a hundred percent of dogs. So I mean, we're gonna see it over the age of seven to eight typically. And cataracts is only like ten to fifteen percent of dogs. So it is really nice to say, like, yeah, maybe you know, I joke and say maybe they'll need some reading glasses 'cause they can't see really close in front of them anymore. But they can still live a normal life and they still see and you know, they're still having a a good lifespan on the other side of that. I think that's one of the major ones. I do think like sleeping a little bit more can be normal too. So that's one that, you know, I do like to chase a little bit and make sure there's no underlying speaker-1: That can actually be something else. speaker-0: Yeah, 'cause that one I mean, sleeping more and panting are the two that I feel like are really difficult for us to really filter out what's going on. speaker-1: Yeah, 'cause a lot of times you have to do a lot of testing yeah just to find out, like rule out everything else. That's a hard thing with a lot of these conditions. You diagnose it by rule out everything else. It could be so a lot of owners like, Wow, that's that's a lot of a lot of things you have to do just to find out it might be nothing, but hey, I just tell them, Do you want me to find something? I don't wanna find anything. I'll take that as a win. speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think it's important for us to always tell pet parents, like, we can do these tests and they may be negative or normal. Have you ever left the vet with more questions than answers? And then you drive home and you go straight on to Google. Yeah, I hear that a lot. And honestly, it's exactly why I created my senior pet virtual consultations. Imagine we have 45 minutes where we go through everything: your pet's full history, their specific challenges, their daily life, no rushing. We're gonna cover nutrition, integrative options, whole modifications, and quality of life. And I send you a personalized plan after so that nothing slips through the cracks here. But don't just take my word for it. Chelsea called it a senior pup therapy session and said she felt so much better afterwards. Adiba got recommendations her own vet had never thought to suggest, and Denise said that the consult was incredibly informative and helpful, giving her many options to help her dog Loki feel better. This is the conversation that your senior pet deserves. And honestly, The one you deserve to. The link is in the description. I'd love to help you. So I guess we touched on this a little bit. What are some of the hardest conversations that you feel like you have to have with pet parents? You know, end of life, but other things like cost and specific euthanizing them, I think, or talking about end of life for reasons that we may not in our head think we may have to talk about that for. speaker-1: Yeah. Well, a lot of my owners of senior pets, they they're really conscious of everything. They will bring it up to me more than half the time. They let say things like, I know, like, it's we're getting at that age where it's gonna be some issues. What tests do I need to do and how much is it gonna cost? And so they bring it up and then I just let them know this is gonna be like An investment almost. I mean, we put in we'll probably touch on if we have time. I hope we do. Like incorporating th like some of the ancillary stuff, the integrative medicine and things like that. That's gonna be an investment. It's not gonna be a quick fix. So you're gonna be like add kind of a new bill. Yeah. But I just kinda let ⁓ know how much it'll be to get started and what to look for. And as we go, we will like kinda tweak things. So I can give you a set number. Is it gonna be more? Absolutely. Yeah. So you just have to kinda get them prepared to almost like take on a new payment or something. Yeah. But they bring it up and then we go into it more as far as cost. As far as like the euthanasia, they will bring that up too. And a lot of times, well, buddies ten years old now. This we need to talk about they don't come with expiration days, y'all. They read, ⁓ this is the average lifespan. There it is. Yeah, I'm I told owners, I've yet to look at an animal and see like expires on this time. I go by how they look. I mean, we have these healthy animals. I tell them, you are a great owner, which most of them are, especially if they have a pet that old. You are gonna know. You might not want to admit it. I will help you get through that point, get to that point where we talk about it and we discuss like what we need to do, but you're gonna know when it's time. Yeah. We always know. Yeah. I knew when it was time. We don't want to admit it, but I just tell them to just let me know everything. Tell me what you're seeing. Y if you don't wanna say you think it's time, you you tell me everything and I'll we'll decide on that together. Just let them know that you they have an ally. You're gonna be there with them through all of this. Like we're here to help you. So I just let them know that. Yeah. You don't have to just come in and say, It's time, we can worry about that together. Yeah. So letting them know we got an investment and we got a journey ahead of us, but we're here to help you with that. Right. I don't know how you approach it a lot of times because you see a lot more than I do. So you probably have more experience with the singer stuff. I mean, I might get some tips from you, like how do you go about this? Yeah. speaker-0: So quality of life calculators are really helpful for people. And there's like three or four different ones. So I think those are important for people to see a number, right? Like because it can be so hard to, and I know I experienced this with my dogs. It's just like looking at them and saying, Well, they had a good day, you know, so do I just fold onto that good day? Or how do I, you know, making the decision to end their life is always gonna feel weird. You know, it's always gonna feel unhuman to be s we don't have to do this very frequently. I mean, we do as veterinarians, but most pet parents make that decision a handful of times in their entire life. So having to make a decision to let go of someone who you take care of every day and it's basically a child is hard. As I think quality of life calculators really help people to get a number and then they say, based on this number, like Max has a bad quality of life. And it's really important for us to talk about what that means and what can we do anything about it? Or do we really need to talk about is it fair to Max to continue, you know, at this place? And I also think, like you said, and I know one of the things you do, because you're a good vet, is allowing people to talk about end of life, right? Like sometimes I've noticed that parents get nervous about bringing up end of life because they don't want to seem like a bad pet parent and they don't want to feel like they're giving up and they don't want you to feel like they're more worried about like money or there's some other reason that they're talking about this. Right. So I think it's important for us to make sure we do, you know, I always tell pet parents like, I'm putting euthanasia on the table. Like I'm I am putting it there. I'm not saying it's right right now, today, but I am saying that We're looking at it down the road. And it's something we do need to continue to talk about their quality of life and know that at this stage he has cancer, he has heart failure, he has kidney failure. It's not wrong at any point to say, I don't want to continue because we know we're looking at a downward spiral. Like they may still have good days and we don't want to feel like we're ending their good days too early. But we also don't want to feel like we're extending their bad days more. And I think what my experience is is most people s feel like they wait too long as opposed to doing it too early. speaker-1: Yeah. And you said a one thing that I forgot to touch on, glad you brought up, but you I'll hear clients say, Well, he or she had a good day. Like out of how many days? Yeah. So you have to look at that. That is one big thing that they will say. 'Cause they will start to almost like they're trying to bargain. Yeah. And they also sometimes like you s also said, they don't want you to think they're a bad pet parent. Right. We're not here to judge. We're here to help you. So yeah, we have to let them know The development relationship with the clients, let them know you're not judging them. You're here to help them. And you're gonna let them know if you think something's too like too soon. Right. But you're not judging them. We're here to help. But I'm glad you mentioned the one thing about had a good day. Yeah. I'm like a good day like out of a month. Right. That's not a quality of life in my ⁓ Yes. speaker-0: Yeah. And we have to, you know, kind of put ourselves in those shoes of like, do I want one good day and like ten bad days? Really? And is that, you know, long term repeated, is that really what we want? Because we can't explain to them just like people that are maybe on hospice and maybe we can explain to them like, ⁓ this is, you know, we'll have this one or two good days and we get to see our family those days or we get to do something special those days. But like looking at the whole picture. We can't tell a dog, well, it's all for this one good day that's coming that someone's coming to visit you. Or you know, you're gonna have you get to have a a morphine drip or something. You know, we can't do these types of things that we do in humans. So that's why we do talk about euthanasia in pets. And a lot of times people equate it to humans, but it's not the same, right? Like there's just a huge difference in that. Yes. Yeah. So would you say in a general practice setting? What do you feel like you don't have enough time or resources to do as well as you would like to for senior pets? speaker-1: Well, it's not that I don't have enough time. We have to make sure that we schedule these things. These con this conversation we're having now, this kind of stuff, we really need to have this with the clients. And your basic exam time is not gonna be enough. You need to be able to sit down with the clients and be able to go through all of their concerns and have them leaving out feeling not necessarily better, but feel like they have a plan. Yeah. So by having a plan, maybe they do feel better. But I would say just the time alone to have these conversations. Not other times it's not a matter of like putting your hands on the pets and making the diagnosis. You already know that. But then you have to like get that transferred from your head to their head so that you can be on the same page. So I would say I just more time. Yeah. More time to talk and things like you said, like the ⁓ I'm gonna start incorporating that more. It's the quality of life calculator. Yeah. I'm gonna start looking into that more and just so I would save time, which I'm glad that that's my problem because I can make more time. Right. Just schedule longer appointments. You this is not something you wanna have a client come in and they feel like they're on a timer and they gotta get all this stuff out within thirty minutes or whatever. You know what you're gonna need, you schedule that, you make that time. If you're an owner, I can make it for as long as I want. Uhhuh. If you're an associate vet, I mean You just have to just kinda let your management know you need a little more time for this one. Yeah. Yes, this is gonna be a big thing. That's gonna help you that's gonna help your relationship with the client and the pet. And that's gonna like you're gonna form like a bond with that that client and you're gonna see more of their pets. They're gonna trust you. And you won't have that issue where so many people now think that vets are just out for money. Show them that You're not just trying to get their money, get that last bit of money out of their pet. You're trying to help them. So mine will be time. Yeah. And I'm happy about that 'cause I can make more time. speaker-0: Exactly. And I think that's extremely important. And one of the things that like the senior dog society, they talk about too is like just make the appointments longer. Yeah. And okay, when it starts at a receptionist, right? So when someone calls and we look and we say, Max is twelve, then on the phone we say, Hey, listen, Max is twelve. We have a special appointment that we at this stage that we recommend and Max is a senior. So as hard as that may be to hear, we want to spend more time with him. We want to make sure that we don't miss anything. So we offer a 45 minute appointment instead of a 30-minute appointment at these senior years. It is an additional $20 fee or $30 fee or whatever it may be to equate for the doctor's time, spending more time with you and getting more answers. But I do think it would really help if we're able to have that more time to go over all your concerns. 'Cause really want make sure we're answering all questions that you have and getting to the bottom of everything. And then having good screening questions when they come in and like just having your technician who comes in initially have really good questions on the front end about arthritis and dementia and any small little things that they see. You know, if we if we have lumps or bumps, we're sharpie circling them or whatever it may be. So we don't miss them when they come in and they're we're both looking and can't find it anymore or something. So I think it's really important for us to create that environment that gives them more time because one of the things I hear the most from my social media and from my in-person appointments is they don't feel like they get enough time. Yeah. They don't feel heard. They don't they feel alone in all of this. Senior pet parents do. And we need to combat that because these are the pets that they they've had for 10 plus years. Like they want to do the things. You know, so I think it's really important for us to make sure that we're giving them that amount of time and setting the expectation that this is gonna be a longer visit because your pet is a senior. That's not a cuss word, it's not a dirty word. It just means that, you know, we need to do a better job at preventing problems and advocating for problems before they become problems and helping them on the other side of that. I think it's really speaker-1: Absolutely. And they clients love that. These clients with these senior pets love the fact that you have a special exam for them. That way that takes a lot of the stress off of them where they're not thinking, I gotta hurry up and get this out to the vet before my appointment. I'm not on the timer. I don't come in and have an egg timer, and I turn it upside down and say, All right, go. Yeah. No. I'm like, I'm on your time now. That's what I tell clients. I'm like, if you have an egg timer, you can turn it and you can go, but I mean if I have to leave and then come back, I'm gonna make sure you leave out feeling some type of like relief or at least you have your questions yeah like have ⁓ answered. Right. Yeah. And Well thank you. Same to you. speaker-0: That's why you're a wonderful doctor. So Yeah. So we have only made it through my like half of my questions. So I think I'm gonna cut this and we're gonna make this a two part series. So to do another episode with me. I am working an urgicare shift at your practice tonight. So I hear some dogs out there barking. I want to make sure everybody gets seen appropriately. But we really appreciate you hanging out with me. And we will come back and do another episode. speaker-1: All right, and we'll talk about some more stories too. Thank you for having me. speaker-0: There you go. Yeah. Of course, thank you. Bye. That's it for today. If this episode helped you, please leave a review or rate this podcast so we can get the word out to more pet parents who need to hear that they are doing a good job. And if you're interested in working more with me, you can find me on social media or at senior petconnection.com because we all need to stay connected. Remember that you are doing a great job with the information that you have in this moment. And I am just here to give you more of it. See you next week.