Latest / The Chuck ToddCast / Interview Only w/ Daniel Silva - A Spy Novelist's Threat Assessment of the Real World

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Interview Only w/ Daniel Silva - A Spy Novelist's Threat Assessment of the Real World · The Chuck ToddCast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: This episode of The Chuck Podcast is brought to you
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  Speaker 1: by Chapter. Now, almost everything you hear about medicare is
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  Speaker 1: somebody quietly trying to steer you somewhere, and you're skeptical
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  Speaker 1: of that, as you should be. I get it. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: I think there's all sorts of space. You see a
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  Speaker 1: lot of people are throwing themselves in this healthcare space.
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  Speaker 1: and then call Chapter today at nine eight zero seven
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: three four three nine eight five. Well, joining me now
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: is somebody who is I guess almost a semi regular.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: I at least try to have him on once a
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: year when he has a new book out, and almost
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: actually it is clockwork. I don't think we should say
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: it's almost like clockwork, It is clockwork. Daniel Silva is
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: out with his latest book, Another Adventure by mister Elan
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: Gabriel Lan and this one takes place in the English countryside.
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  Speaker 1: This is number twenty six for Gabriel twenty six.
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  Speaker 2: I guess the most interesting part of that is that
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: there was always supposed to be one.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: There's supposed to be one. How old is he? How
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: old was he when he started? Have you aged a
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: moment on six years? Do you know what?
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: He's ageless at this point?
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: You know it.
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  Speaker 2: And people always ask me, well, if you've known you're
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: going to write about him for so long, you know,
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: God knows how old Aircule Poirou was at the end
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: of it getting younger.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: I don't understand. I mean, you know, right.
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  Speaker 2: And so so one of the things that I tried
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: to do with him, I gave him a subtle makeover.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: You know, I always knew that this is sort of
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: the where I wanted the series to end, that this
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: is the kind of stories that I wanted to write
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: with him.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: I wanted to coming in for the landing. Are you
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: trying to say that Gabriel is coming in for the landing? Here?
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  Speaker 2: Now?
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  Speaker 1: He's he is?
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  Speaker 3: The way we see him now is how is he's
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: going to be?
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  Speaker 1: I think and I tire more often than Tom Brady.
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  Speaker 3: Right, he's he is retired, but he just does little
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: little jobs.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: I'm working on the I have in my hot little
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: hand here the first pages of the next book, and
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: you know he'll be working with the Italian police again.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: He's The thing about Gabriel is he's incredibly versatile, and
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: so he can do lots of different things.
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  Speaker 1: But what he's got to be perpetually young enough to
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  Speaker 1: physically do stuff, and old enough to have all of
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: these friends and courses and experience.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: So correct. And I froze him in place. I froze
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: him in place. I buffed a few years off of him.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: I dwell less on some of his his backstory in
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: the exact dates of it, and I'm trying to do
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: it a little sleight of hand with the reader. He
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: is married to a younger woman, and he has two
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: young kids, and he presents on the page a little
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: a little young.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: He is in dog years and very I mean, look,
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: let me, we're dancing around the how much how is it?
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: How much of you do you put yourself? How much
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: of yourself do you feel like you put into Gabriel?
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  Speaker 2: I think that that a novelist if he's being honest,
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: And there we little litter bits and pieces of ourselves
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: all through it. And so Gabriel and I have lots
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: of things in common. I wish I could paint like him.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: I can't.
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: I wish I had a a.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: You really had a love of painting, or he wouldn't
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: have been an expert. Correct, correct, correct. I love art.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: My mother took me to uh to see the van
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: Go exhibit when it came to San Francisco when I
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: was a kid. There's this big touring exhibition of Vango's works,
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: and I was just blown away from.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: That moment on.
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: But but yeah, I love of art. I mean he is.
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: He does allow me.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: To pursue things that I'm interested in. Art history, history
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: of the Second World War, the history of the Holocaust,
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: all kinds of things.
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  Speaker 3: Gabriels you know, a lot of stuff flows through the.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: Guy, and so I get to I get to explore
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: things that I want to write about.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: You bring back a character. I guess that was a
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: kid that is now an adult. And I was just thinking,
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: do you have some tree character tree that you keep
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: track of? No?
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: No.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: Twenty six novels, Like I'd be like, oh wait a minute,
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: we had a kid. Let's try that, right.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: You know, he was a very special character because he
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: was he was exactly the age of Gabriel's child. I
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: actually met the real version of this kid one day
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: when I was just just the way Gabriel did. I
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: was a friend of mine had a house on the
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: Helford Passage in Cornwall and took me out Sailine on
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: his catch one day and there's this little kid waiting
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: for us. And we came back to the k and
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: and and you know, don't don't be around me when
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: I'm working, because you're going to end up in the
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: book your book. Yeah, and so, but I always wanted
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: to bring that that character back and what you know,
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: what would he be?
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: What what do he grow up to be? He grew
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: up to be a Cornish policeman.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: I tell you.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: I have given serious, serious thought to spinning off that
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: character into his own series. I I love him, Yeah,
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: his own serious.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: Well, that's another way to character to get a little
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: younger too. I'm not.
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: I don't give any thought to it in terms of
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: his age.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: It just is what he is.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: I'm writing it the books a little differently now, and
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: I don't I don't worry about it.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: So I read you wrote this one partially in Cornwall.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: I did not get to write this one, I wrote,
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: I wrote the first one in Cornwall.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: You wrote the first one.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Regrettably, I was not able to go back.
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: And I keep trying to my wife, as you know, is.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: A uh, it's a hot shot reporter over at CNN,
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: and and can we go can we just you know,
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: spend the autumn Cornwall? Let me work there. No, I
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: have to work. So I wish I hadn't been able to.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: But no, I didn't.
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: I didn't go back for this one. I know, I
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: know I'd like the back of my hand.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: Though. I was just gonna say, you're very I mean,
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: I feel like you. You you spend a lot of
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: time in a handful of places with these books. Fair
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: to say, definitely definitely.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: You know, I've sent him to some some ugly places
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: now and again. But I think the the five of
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: the series is is European art and European art and elegance,
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: and those are the settings that I like. And so
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: it's basically the he lives in Venice, he has a
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: summer house in in in the English countryside. You got
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: to get out of Venice in the summer. Too many
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: tourists and too too much humidity. And so those are
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: sort of with the dual settings for the for the
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: for the series.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: Right now, boy, this book is very feels very visual,
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: like it's a very it's it's a ransom. How look,
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: you're a former reporter, which means you're still a reporter
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: when you're doing so definitely to walk me through how
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: you learned about sort of modern kidnappings and modern negotiation.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: I've read and studied about the techniques as as much
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: as I could in terms of the negotiating techniques and
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: how these these they're called K and R, kidnapp and
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: ran some you know, these are a select group of individuals.
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: Who get hired by big insurance companies.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: You know, if you have if you're business executive or
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: a famous person. You most of them, Carrie, this knows
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: K and R insurance, kidnapping, ransom insurance, and when you
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: know business executives or whoever are kidnapped, Cary, you bring
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: in these guys and they know to negotiate a deal.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: And so I applied their techniques for negotiation to Gabriel
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: and he's he's actually a pretty damn good K and
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: R specialist, and he knows how to negotiat a deal
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: with him. I think that that chapter, I can't remember
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: what which, what number it is, but I tried to
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: do the negotiations like almost like.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: A work of art.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: So I think it's it's very tense, but it's actually
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: a rather beautiful chapter. With the way he does those negotiations.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: It seems as if you were creating visuals. I mean,
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: you know, look, this is this is one. I mean,
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: I keep waiting for my limited suits. I know somebody
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: owns owns the rights to this and hasn't made these
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: movies yet or TV shows or limited series. We're we
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: could discuss that later. We can discuss that later. I know,
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: I don't I'm gonna whine about it. I'm you're you're
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: you're just going to keep producing uh more.
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: It is visual. It is visual. But but if you.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: Look, if you if you analyze the text, though, this
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: is something that I say, if you analyze the text,
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: I am not actually describing things in great, great, great detail.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: I'm writing it in a way with proper point of
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: view that tricks you into seeing it for yourself.
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: And and and.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: I'm also cognizant of the fact that that these days
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: most people sit with a with a book with their
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: bone or their laptop, and they're going and they're finding
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: every place that.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: You assume that they may. I want to see what
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: that looks like. I want to see that visual in
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: my head. Interesting. Sure people not that with a second screen.
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: I I assume they do. I know they do.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: But but at the same time, you wouldn't want me
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: to try to describe every single building, every street in
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: in minute detail. What I'm doing is a it's a
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: it's a slein of hand. It's Parler trick to make
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: you think you see it. And that's the way I
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: go about it.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: I want to talk about drones because.
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: You look, I I issued a warning.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: That that I you sort of were being a You're
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: gonna sound prophetic and none of us want you to be,
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: which is we're going to have a major incident that's
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: going to be triggered by drones. There's no doubt we are,
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: which are how what is going to look like? Is it?
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: Is it a political assassination? Is it a bombing of
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: some sort? Is it? You know? I don't want to
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: sit here and idly speculate because it feels like you're
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: you're you're somehow wishing it or trying to put put
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: it in there. But it is pretty clear a technology.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: And this is a reminder about all sort of new technology,
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: is that the people that invented think they can keep
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: it from from bad people using it.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: And yeah, look that the you have two ground conflicts
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: that we've had, or two wars.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: One of the mother, the mother of invention is necessity,
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: right of course.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: I mean, so the Ukrainians had their backs against the
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: wall and they devised a way to fight back.
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: Now they are the drone specialists.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: They have have Ukrainian advisors working with golf countries and.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: To astonishing industry that Ukraine created here.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the Chinese are preparing the drone swarms and the ability.
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: We're going to have.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: Grounds drones, for lack of a better word, robotic soldiers back.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: This were a visual of Star Wars, those prequels. They
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: have the the clone armies coming at us, you know.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: But but in terms of of being able to deliver
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: explosives to a target, there's there's no question that in
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: my mind that we're going to have a serious shown incident,
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: and whether it's an assassination or a mass casualty event.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: And so I, you know, I had to kind of
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: become an expert in drones and then all talking to
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: people who I couldn't identify in my in my acknowledgments,
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: who were actually have been working with the Ukrainians and
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: and and trying to do that explain to me the
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: various types of drones that we have, various ways of
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: guidance systems and and and the and the countermeasures that
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: are available, and then try to pick and choose what
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: I wanted to get the ending that that I wanted
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: for the novel. It's without giving too much a it's
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: an exciting finish. I will say that it takes place
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: in London during a very high stakes diplomatic beating.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: And it was a lot of fun to write yeah,
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: go ahead. But when you say, a lot of fun
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: to write, but it was also did you feel any trepidaty,
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: like some trepidation like an ice might happen? You know?
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: Gosh, if I did that, I wouldn't you know. I've
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: had trepidation a couple of times. I mean, I did
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: write a book a few years ago called a Black Widow,
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: and I actually ended up putting a forward to it
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: because it was it was an attack in Paris, and
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: it was so similar to the attack in Paris that
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: the big one that happened that I literally thought, gosh,
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: I can't, I can't, I can't write this book any longer.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: And that's why I explained to readers what happened, and
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: I and I finished the book as planned. But it
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: was exactly It's exactly the way it turned out to be.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: You were right, you would sort of you would, you
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: would drafted, and all of a sudden that happens while
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: you're in the middle of that.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: Yes, and right down to the fact that there was
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: there were connections between the paras cells and and and
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: a part of Brussels called Mullenbeck where there were a
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: number of isis radical space.
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: It happens from time to time.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: But I mean, look, look, I'm not making anything up
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: here that when there was a major drone incident in
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: the Copenhagen as what all we all recall it, there
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: was an emergency summit meeting that was held in Copenhagen
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: a few days later, And is that right in the
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: author's note that Europeans had to bring in massive arrays
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: of anti drone kit and other personnel because they were
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: worried that there was going to be a drone attack
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: on the heads of state administer sitting around that table.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: I'm not breaking any new ground here. The Europeans are
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: already very, very enorvous by drones and the impact that
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: they can have on their economy and their political leaders.
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• 18:42
  Speaker 1: free quote at Ethos dot com slash chuck that is,
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: e Thos dot com slash chuck. Application times may vary
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: and rates may vary. You know, I was thinking about
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: this when I saw, Oh, you're writing about drones, and
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: I was thinking about, frankly, all the different sophisticated ways
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: that moving currency has changed, just in your twenty six
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: years of this, right, Like you do a great job
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: of keeping your books modern, Right like you you in
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: and so and so much has changed. And we think,
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: you know, take the issue of there's cameras everywhere. So
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: on one hand, I think it's harder than ever to
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: get away with certain crimes. Right. I've had this theory
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: that the real reason for this sort of larger trend
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: line that essentially crime has been going down. All right,
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: we have these ups and downs, but when you compare
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: to say, the life you and I lived in the
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: seventies and eighties compared to you are today always, And
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: I think the biggest difference is cameras are everywhere, right,
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: that there are, just people don't want to get caught, right,
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: And that's going to It's not going to eliminate all criminals,
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: but it's going to and a probably a third of
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: them and have them. You know, what is it that
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: that fear of getting caught does, right, putting that barrier?
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: And yet we have cameras anywhere. And then yet with
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: drones and with crypto, it's never been more easier to
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: be anonymous or to be further away. So here you
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: thought you eliminated the ability for people to disappear in
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: plain side, and yet that isn't the case because you
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: can now mask your identity so easily in so many
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: different places.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: No, and yes, certain aspects of crime are down, and yes,
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: there are cameras everywhere, but you can go to plenty
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: of places here in the United States out of the
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: sticks and smaller communities, and there's plenty of plenty of
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: places with their cameras.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: But look, I think.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: That just a general overall level of criminality and corruption
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: in the world right now is staggering. And I've talked
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: about that, this this very issue with with friends that
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: the FBI.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: The old FBI staggering. Is it just.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: It's a money log of money, luxury of drugs, of
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: drugs of all kinds of art, and crime as well
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: and fraud.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: These criminal syndicates are their own international yeah, right.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: As I as I pointed out and in one of
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: the books recently, and I think it was the last book,
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: that the Italian organized crime earns more than Deutsche Bank
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: and McDonald's combined each year. That's how big these groups are.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: And that's just one. You know, a set of criminals
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: syndicates there there are, they are spread throughout the world,
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: and that there is a lot of primate world perfect
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: perfect for character like Gabriel Law.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: So when you talk and I and I appreciate you
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: saying the old FBI, we know that there's a current
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: right there, but that doesn't make place that there aren't
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: actual left. I mean, you hear about this. I mean, look,
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: I've got sources in both military intelligence, civilian intelligence, and
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: in domestic it's just all the different things we're not
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: looking at right now because of the of this.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: Because they're they're turmoil. Yeah, I don't know why. I mean,
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: I have to saying, you know, President Silva, President Todd,
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: I don't. I don't think that you would be, you know,
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: jettisoning your allies in Europe.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: And and and and.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: Creating chaos and be your challenging services if if you
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: didn't want something bad to happen to your country. I
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: don't understand the rationale why we are.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: The one rationale? Like you start to think of it,
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: none of it makes sense unless the unless, the main
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: unless the unless. I mean that's the thing. The only
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: thing that explains.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: It is that you're like, why would you write why
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: would you rip up the American intelligence community?
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: Why would you rip up the FI? I don't know.
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: Why would you would you destroy NATA?
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: Let me let me flip it on you. You write
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: about the g r U, So I know you've studied
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: them very carefully.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: If you were the g r U, Okay, where would
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: you want an asset to be in the US government?
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: I assumed that they would love the best asset for
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: the g r U would be somebody that sees all
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: the intelligence. Oh sure, So to me it would be
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: d N I uh and so I remember that, just
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: look and that was my con Not sure I'm not
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: sure that would be a a gr U asset or
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: an SVR asset, but I certainly love the idea of
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: oh the person in charge of seeing everything, it all
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: comes through one entity. What a great person, What a
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: great place to have an asset, And that person had
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: chosen for that job. I mean, of all things, it
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: was one of those things. And I know we're like,
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: we're pretending, We're like, it does not speak this, and
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: yet time and again you can't help but go back
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: look there.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: And yet anything to keep in mind is that there
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: are all kinds of different assets.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: Okay, there are.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: You don't have to be mfib to be an asset,
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: you know, you know someone who has recruited in his
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: youth and brought up to be an agent of penetration.
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: There are different levels of assets.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: And Escabriel Lines pointed out a few years ago that
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: some of the best assets don't even realize that they're assets,
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: and and they've been, they have been.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: So how do they be in come assets?
• 25:05
  Speaker 5: They're either they either come to the table as an
• 25:07
  Speaker 5: asset or they get compromised, compromised and you just tell them,
• 25:14
  Speaker 5: but that your compromise.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: This is this and then they just start sort of
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: running themselves to try to bless you, to stay in
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: your good graces. There's that, there's that kind of person.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: But some of these people are just it's a good
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: old phrase, it's been used over and over we have
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: but just useful idiots, Just useful idiots. And and for
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: some reason we got one into the position of d
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: n of.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: The Guru.
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: You can't even make I wouldn't. I wouldn't put it
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: in the novel. I would not put the Guru in a.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: Right because it doesn't feel like a right. I mean, look,
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: I mean please. The fourth of July was a caricature
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: of the character.
• 26:01
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and you do, uh well, did you happen to
• 26:06
  Speaker 6: did you happen to read the I'm sorry, I did
• 26:09
  Speaker 6: you happen to read the big piece in the Wall
• 26:12
  Speaker 6: Street Journal this morning about the crisis meeting that took place.
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: At the headquarters and.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: No no, about about Trump jettisoning the European allies, that
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: they had this big meeting at at NATO headquarters that
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: are in this the fish bowl or whatever they call
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: that room, and they're just throwing up their hands.
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: They don't they don't know what to do.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: And I try to capture a little of that.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: I mean, you had to deploy troops to Greenland to
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: defend Greenland against a potential attack from a fellow NATO member.
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: It's just madness.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: What So, there's a part of me that thinks in
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: ten years NATO Europe will be stronger and that will
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: be a young thing. What the period between now and
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: ten years from now is going to be shaky.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, although I have to say that that I think
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: that if if the if the wars were to stay conventional,
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: that's a big if.
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: You know, they think that the combined natal forces could
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: take the Russians right now, that's my opinion.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: I agree with that. I have to tell you my
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: my friend Ian Bremer, who runs your.
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: Yes yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: He is growing increasingly concerned that they're that the the
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: leader of Russia is becoming more erratic and more clearly
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: and there's he does not get factual information and it's
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: aid anymore. And that is a very scary proposition.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. One thing I was going to say to my actually,
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: my last point was that those frontline countries do not mess.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: With the polls. By the way, they are.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: Heavily armed they're trained, they're ready, and the Baltics have
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: have you know, they're small and they don't have to
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: demand in power.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: Do you want to face a Lithuanian boxer.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: No, they these guys are, these guys are are are
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: ready to go.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: Finland is ready to go, and so he's not with you.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: It's important you said the words conventional, which is why
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: I brought up the erratic behavior of Putin. That's the
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: big fear right now is that he's not a state.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: You know, there's always been this debate how rational of
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: an actor is he, and he's you know, Putin has
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: always thought to have been a rational actor, but right
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: now there's not a lot of people that say that he.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: I mean, he clearly thought obviously that it was going
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: to be a two or three day war and this
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: was going to be it's going to gobble up this
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: this country.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: This is your fourth part of the Ukraine Bihar by
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: the way.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, my friends in the in the in the in
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: the in the business, and you know they call him
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: the Yukis, by the way, that's what we call them
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: inside the community. The Yuki's may knew they were ready,
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: they're ready, and that they were it was not going
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: to be a cakewalk for them, and and he just
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: got himself into a into a pickle. By the way,
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: if I if as I right at the end of
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: the book, we ought to and someone someone forgive you.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: I can't remember the piece that was written day or
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: two ago. We ought to be putting the screws to
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: Vladimir Putin right now. We should not be trying to.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: Trump a huge opportunity, the opportunity.
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: He's going to go to NATO and try to strike
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: the deal.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: Hell no, now, there's no. You don't have to do
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: a deal. He wants the deal badly. I mean, you know, well, no,
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: you're not going to get it on his terms. Yeah.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: The irony now is that is that I don't think
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: lose crimea well. And the irony was Ukraine muther have
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: been willing to sort of not let crime ago, but
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: not fight it. If that were part of the negotiations,
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: like they were willing to sort of accept that kind
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: of outcome. They're not. Now they got victory inside they.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: Too, And we got people in Moscow like going to
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: be like hurrying from place to place here pretty soon
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: because because they can't stop these these attacks they're incapable of.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: And then I'm a little I think about the warnings
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: Biden made, don't strike inside of Russia, and I remember
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: just feeling imagine being told you're being beaten up. Look,
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: you can only fight back below the ways. You can't
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: hit m in the faith, and you're just like, well,
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: that was with our weapons. I get that.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he didn't want us to use He didn't
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: want them to use our weapons to do that. And
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: they've developed their own capability and it's very effective. Obviously
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: very effective.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: It is. So how do you tackle Israel's reputation right
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: now around the world With.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: Gabriel's I have moved him out five books ago. He's
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: like many other people like him, he, you know, had
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: the ability to to leave the country. I mean, Gabriel
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: is an old social democrat, Ashkenazi, secular Jewish person as
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: if you call them in Israel these days, endangered species.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: Hard to be a majority of the Israeli. You know,
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: the Israel i've visited was I was shocked at how
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: secular it was the first time I went there. I
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: had no idea. Now it's not it's much more religious.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: It's much the.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: Is Rahi popular air Born chooses Saphardic choose, as we
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: call him, this way up the extremest wing. His radical
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: settlers are. I mean, we have radical settlers running important
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: ministries in in Benkavere and Smotri. It's not, it's not
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: Gabriel's Israel. He people have asked me, well, I don't
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: why isn't he involved in this? He would he wouldn't
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: be in the same room with those guys, let alone
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: serving a cabinet with them. And frankly, they wouldn't warnt him.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: You know, these are not it's not He'd have been purged.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: He wouldn't have survived. He would have been he would
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: have been purged. He would have been And look the
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: people like Gabriel, many of them have been the most
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: outspoken in terms of the way that war has been waged.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: And I'm talking, I'm referring to old line security professionals.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: That have people had a retired major tame and spoken
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: my congregation a few months ago. I know exactly the
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: type of person you're talking about.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so you know who he is. He looks
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: like highly sounds how he thinks. And they've been the
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: most critical, and they've used words like war crimes and
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: crimes against humanity. And a few weeks ago that had
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: the former head of the Masade went out of a
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: tour of the West Bank and said, see what was
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: going on out there in terms of the settler violence
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: against the Arab population, said he was a shame to
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: be Jewish. He didn't say he was ashamed to be Israeli.
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: He said he was ashamed to be Jewish. So so
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: the country, I mean, I I knew I could see
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: this change coming from a long way off and prepared
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: for it. But you know, it's just it's the other.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: But the other thing is that that you know, why people,
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: why haven't you written? But you want me to write
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: about a warword more that one hundred thousand people have
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: been killed and in Kaza and Lebanhon and Iran, and
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: you know, maybe twenty thousand children at least in cause
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: this is not something I want to write about, and
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's anything that people want to read about,
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: to be honest with you, No, someone's going to write
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: a really good novel about it someday, and it's it's
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: it's not going to be it's not going to be
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: good reading.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: For instant reminder that radicalism usually creates more radicalism, and
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: just we're watching it in our own country, right, We're
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: watching the two bases of the two political parties rightmize
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: each other.
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: I was doing this that it's such a good point.
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: That's such a good point.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's what happened. Look, I'm not gonna what
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: Hamas did only radicalize the far right of Israel. I mean,
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: it's like we consider and say who started it, It
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: doesn't matter, doesn't matter. I haven't heard in Israel, Israeli
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: government official talk about the two state solution in a decade.
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: We are already at to facto one state solution.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: They two state with what they've done with these settlers,
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: I know, it.
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: Would be impossible to.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: It sort of have to be a virtual to states,
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: you know, state state of mind.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: Here's a country out there that has like non contiguous
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: you know, it's not quite ind it's sort of like exactly,
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: it's like an island nation without water, right, right.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: And so, but the communities are like this that they
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: can't you can't disentangle them. Facts on the ground is
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: the term that she used, the term of art in
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: the in the Middle East. In the conflict and the
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: facts of the ground that now are that there's just
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: it's inseparable. It's there's a there's a straight line that
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: the highway from from Jerusalem to the Ardanian border or
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: that that's solid Israeli controlled now.
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: So they have two little patchworks.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: Of of of of Palestinian areas that it's not doable now.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: I'll just be honest with you, Daniel, we Israel could
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: use a prime minister like Gabriel Alon.
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: It's the only job left for him. Yeah, it's only
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: job left for him.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: I Mean, the ironing is that it's they need a
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: they need a they need a Benngarian moment. They need
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: a George Washington moment again because this guy. I mean,
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: the most remarkable thing about BB is how every single
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: American president that I've covered professionally, they their hands. Yes,
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: at one point they're like, let they're out. They that's it,
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: like that guy. And they even like they use an
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: F bomb, which they normally wouldn't. Right, like every one
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: of them, which would like what whatever you think of
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: our American president's Okay? From H. W. Bush through Trump, right,
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: there's no doubt. And yet the one thing all of
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: them have in common. They get in a room and
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: the one person they being moan about the most would
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: be bb.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: I love the transcript of the of the phone call
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: that's in Maggie and John's book, Jonathan's book.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: You're He's just throwing every day.
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: Everyone hates you, You're.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: It was.
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: That's one thing that that that Donald Trump has in
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: common with Brockenbam.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: I guess it's the one thing they actually like. Yeah,
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: you know this is something. You know. That guy's a
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: real pain in me, you know what. Yes, he is,
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: and he causes me all sorts of political problems. Yes
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: he does, right, But there's a there's it I don't.
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's this fortress Israel mindset that has sprung up.
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: They think they can do it alone. Who's given speeches
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: about it? Yeah about it?
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: So when you have so when when you get to
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: South African level of disinvestments and trade embargoes and things
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: like that, things could get really ugly pretty quickly.
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• 39:57
  Speaker 1: gonna make this a you think Gabriel still a Zionist?
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: Uh? This Gabriel believe that that there should be a
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: Jewish homeland for absolutely. I'm still assign they see, once
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: upon a time one could be a liberal and design
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: at the same time.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: The fact that you that isn't the case, and the
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: irony is that that the domestic policy in Israel still
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: quite liberal on the grand inspectrum.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: Some some I mean they went from a social democratic
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: you know, centrally managed I mean these, I mean, this
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: wasn't it wasn't a Marxist state when it came into being.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: It was a socialist state. It was more like a
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: socialist European country. Right, you're sort of extream socialist European
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: is probably the way.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: And so the economy has went more wide open than
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: it was, and so there have been changes to the
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: fabric of the country like that. But look, people, you know,
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: we have we talked about self segregation here, okay, and
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: there's really they're there are just different enclaves of communities,
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: and they have, you know, liberal Ashka Nazis have their
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: little areas down on the coast. And I have friends
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: who said, I don't even go up there, to referring
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: to Jerusalem. I don't even go up there. Those people
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: are crazy. I stay down here, my little place. So
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: there's still just like in the ancient times when you
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: had you know, Hellenised, the liberal twos along the coast
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: and you had the crazy stuffing. And so the country
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: is very very antsonized right now, siloed.
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: That's not it's dangerous now, it's that. Look, I I'm
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: I read this column. I don't know if you read
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: Nick Leeman's column in the New York Time. I was
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: just pretty I was just I did.
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: But he I think he he talked about that, you know,
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: his in his youth, how that then you.
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: Could be you could be a Zionist, and and you know, zion.
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: First were Zionists. There was not all like there was
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: a you know, the reform. I didn't fully appreciate that reform.
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: Judaism was not always, uh was not always universally Zionist.
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: I mean you could go back to Firstal's time.
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: Okay, so the very idea and so assimilated European Jews
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: were saying, come on, you know, so do this, we
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: know this is everything's okay. It wasn't okay if you're
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: if you're you know, living in the pale As Settlement
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: and and got you got uh well grams every night,
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: and so it was.
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: It was.
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: It was never universally accepted by the by the diaspora
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: that we should there should be a Jewish state.
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: Never never, And I think, I think.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: Which I've never understood, because every I mean, you know
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: the thing about is there a European country that didn't
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: try to kick Jews out or segregate them in some way.
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: I mean it's almost every single European country has some
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: history of this. It does.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: But there was, as I said, there's a there were
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: assimilated Jews in Europe who were opposed.
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: To the Zionist project. It was.
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, look I think, I guess I'm not an
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: expert on hersel, but you know, he's a journalist. He
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: covered the Dryfist affair and he saw that Drive is
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: being cashiered, and that's the moment he became an es memory.
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: He became a Zionist, like this is, this is not
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: going to end well, and he's.
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: Right now, it is. It is. It's interesting. I uh,
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: And I've said this before. I you know, up until
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: about ten years ago, I would have told you, man,
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: anti Semitism, that was my parents, that was my mom problem.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: You know, I didn't. I haven't had to deal with
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: this and and it you know, I can tell you
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: that at forty, at forty years old, I didn't feel
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: like I had to deal with it. By forty five,
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: I did. And it's been ten years, you know, and
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: it's been and it is there's no doubt. And you
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: sit here and you're like, I was raised to be
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: to hide in plain sud. I was from a mixed
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: religious family, so I could my last name hides me
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: in plain sight. And I feel like, boy, I guess
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: I'm lucky I can hide in plainside again. Although it's
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: harder to hide these days because like, it's funny how
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: important it is for other people to denote what faith
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: I I am. Interesting, Oh you're Jewish? Yeah, so, and
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: it helps us couple of assumptions that go with it,
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: and you're like careful making assumptions. And that's all.
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: It is.
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: The longest hatred, Chuck, It is never it is bottomless.
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: I've tried to address the roots of it and by fiction, and.
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: But it just takes.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: It just it just takes the right set of circumstances
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: to reignite the virums, you see. Yeah, and you know,
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: something like a nine to eleven, you know, a tear
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: in the fabric of history, something like the Great Recession
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: and the financial crisis, something like these incredibly fast changes
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: that are overtaking our society right now, you know, the
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: rise of the credible wealth among among a few people.
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: These things helped disturb the pot and that that's where
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: we're at. And then and then of course that this
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: this war has been has had a huge impact on
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: a Semitism around the world.
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: Gigantic, just gigantic dragon we're headed to. You know, at
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: the last G seven meeting, you had the loose and
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: the AI guys all sort of as peers. Yeah, and
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: it felt like, oh my god, we're gonna move. This
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: is going to turn into a bond Villain movement, Like
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: we're going to have a corporation be more powerful than
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: it than some of the most powerful nations on Earth.
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: I assume you, as a novelist, you're thinking about this
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: quite a bit. I am.
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: I think about it all the time, not just as
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: a novelist, but as.
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: A as a citizen, citizen of the world. That it's
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: just been this incredible concentration of wealth in the hands
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: of a very few people is staggering that. I mean,
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: the comparisons to the guilded age are not really accurate
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: because the Gulf is much wider now than.
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: It was even then.
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: And it's it's it can't have miss level of disparity
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: without political disruption. I'm sorry, is there. It's something that
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: is going to come. You can't have so much wells
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: concentrated in the hands of so few. And then but
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: at the same time, they're they're not willing to pay
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: any taxes and contribute in any way to society the
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: ways with which you know you hold wells.
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: Remember the billionaire pledge.
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: The billionaire pledge, how quaint all.
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: Right, and yeah, Warren Buffett, Michael Bloomberg, Steve all those
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: sort of I guess you could call them the first
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: the sort of the first, you know, that first round
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: of twenty first century billionaires. There was this sense of, well,
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: I should do this, even if I secretly don't want
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: to do it.
• 47:49
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: They also, I think some of them, have rescentved it,
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: have like literally taken the pledge back.
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: But any anyone who's involved in philanscope people will tell
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: you that the new generation of really wealthy they have
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: no interest in it.
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: In fact, they're kind of opposed to it. I think
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: they approach it sort.
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: Of this Machiavelli and Darwinian way about, you know, survival
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: of the fittest and how things like that.
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: Us and I guess these guys are going to be
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: excited to create their feudal their feudal become futal lords
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: and have people just as.
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: Well, wait wait until they're wait until their product is
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: unleashed and it wipes out the entire the knowledge economy
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: and it tears through the financial industry. You don't need
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: all these analysts and all these guys. When when when
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: they when they get these AI things up and running.
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: I think that that I just don't know if the
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: white column workers know how a pitchfork works exact. I
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: think they're going to be looking for it, but they're like,
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: which way do I use it? You know, it's going
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: to be very, very disruptive.
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: They broke catastrophic climate change into the mix, and things
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: things can get so.
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: Well, that's the thing. It's the wild card, Like there's
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: this God. You know, my daughter just got a degree
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: in marine science in an oceanography. So she's so where
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: does she study? Where she study? Never in Miami? She
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: agree from there. So it's we're very proud, and uh
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: it is. It is both important work and when the
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: government cuts all these jobs, really hard to find work
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: in this field currently at the moment. But she's But
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: the point is is that I over index reading about
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: climate stuff now and all that just to keep up
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: obviously with your kids, right, you know, I'm sure you
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: do this and you do similar things with yours. And
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: the Pacific Ocean. There was this great story in the
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: in the Post that had a terrific headline. The set
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: ways they're like good for the headline writers, which is
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: the Pacific Ocean has a fever. This is a fever. Yeah,
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: and they use the words fever, and I just thought
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: it was what a great way to just look, it's
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: a it's hot, and we wanted to give you another
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: you know, this is sick. And I just thought it
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: was a terrific headline. And you read it and you
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: realize the next great political crisis may the trigger may
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: absolutely be a natural disaster gone wrong. Right, we can look,
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: we're living this in real time in Venezuela. At the moment,
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: we're going to We're not sure if this puppet stay
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: that we've manufactured here can hang on when there's real
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: you know, and who's to do. You know, I'm waiting
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: for the population to turn on us, because they're going
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: to think, well, you're in charge of this country at
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: the moment, you know, you fix our stuff. But the
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: point is is that a natural disaster triggering our next
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: political crisis seems as about as likely as anything out
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: there these days.
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: Well, as a fellow climate alarmist, you know that about
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: the great El Nino, I'm going to get the years
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: wrong that took place, Oh gosh, in the late nineteenth century.
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: I believe that hadn't read had the impact of creating
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: famine all across Asia, and millions and billions and millions
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: that people died as a result of warming water in
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: the Pacific. There is a strong case to be made
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: that that that the uprising in Syria was a result
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: of climate change and lack of rainfall.
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: And all these migrants failure. Right, the migration patterns we're
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: seeing is almost all being you can absolutely in Central America.
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: There's just less work for sure, right with what's happening,
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: and so people are moving north. And you know, I've
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: always said the Mediterranean Sea is the southern border of Europe, right,
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: And so it's going to get get worse before it
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: gets better, and so we need some enlightened political leadership
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: to try to deal with it. We shouldn't, you know,
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: turn our back on Africa the eight cuts that I
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: mean that people are dying directly as a result of
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: our not being there with the same it's for the
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: level of aid, and we need to stay engaged in
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: the world.
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: We can't turn it back on it. And this is
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: the part where this is where you're like, I don't
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: understand why you can't convince Donald Trump to do this.
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: For transactional reasons. Don't do this because it's the right
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: thing to do, mister president, do it because you need
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: you need people to owe you something. You're you know, right,
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: like you know, I don't get why he doesn't see
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: it through that.
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: I always I always thought he should do it for
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: the right readas.
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: It's one of the things that I found interesting about
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: Donald Worrison.
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: But you know, you know the movie Dave Right, the
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: classic movie Day, the guy finds himself to be president.
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: His first impulse is to try to help people.
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: Okay, I got into this job accidentally, but I'm going
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: to do some good.
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: That's the thing I don't understand about the man.
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: You know, why the constant division and why not actually
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: try to do something decent for a change.
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: I'm going to try to help. I think about the
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: America two fifty and how none of the living presidents
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: were involved. He didn't take a you know, I mean
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: man as president. I'd have been excited to like take
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: new tours of the day of the archives to see
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: all the original documents, and I would have brought the
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: country along with me to do something like that. I
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: would have bad the American presidents that are living you know,
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: we'd all we'd all sort of oversee this, and you
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: might have a reading of the of the Declaration of
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: Independence that they You know, it could have been an
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: incredible unifying event, but the man doesn't care. I've always said,
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: I believe presidents are all in charge of writing a
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: chapter of the story of America. Well, this guy doesn't
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: believe he's he's a chapter and he doesn't believe in
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: the story of America. So then what do you do.
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: It's first time we've ever had a president like that.
• 53:50
  Speaker 3: Were you in Washington for the fireworks?
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: I was not. I was not happen to be here
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: right now, but I was in. We have a place
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: in northwest Florida, in Pensacola. We were there and we
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: had a great by the way we do, it's our
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: Here's the other thing about the Fourth of July that
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: I think the President didn't fully appreciate is the Fourth
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: of July is like Thanksgiving and Christmas. And in this respect,
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: you usually do the same thing, right, you gather with
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: the same same group. I did the same thing about
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: eight years in a row. An old friend of mine,
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: but before he died, had an apartment that overlooked the Eewjima.
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: So guess what I did? Yes, where we were every
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: Fourth of July for about ten years. Right, it is
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: sure it is apartment, you know, and I do the
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: same family gathering. People like their traditions, so be careful
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: upending them, you know. And he tried to up end
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: him here in Washington, but I didn't want to, I'll
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: be honest. I had enough for the traffic attack. I
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: feel like I feel like he declared war on Northern
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: Virginia commuters over that. It was.
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: We went to Florida also, where it was I think
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: twelve degrees or thirteen degrees cooler than it.
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: Wasn't about that, I know we were bracket. Yeah, it's
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: cooler here Florida. D Yeah.
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: So we came back last night. Anyway, the mall is
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: it's I don't know, if you've been down.
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: There, it's just such a mess. I know, it's just
• 55:19
  Speaker 3: a mess.
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: Defences and the construction sites and the gear and the
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: the whole places is a mess.
• 55:27
  Speaker 4: The White House grounds are really sad. Let's see the looks.
• 55:33
  Speaker 4: If you love that you did to Atlantic City, you're
• 55:35
  Speaker 4: gonna love what washing. I mean, if only we had
• 55:40
  Speaker 4: some sort of example what happens when you put Donald
• 55:42
  Speaker 4: Trump essentially in charge of a city?
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: What what could go wrong? Atlantic City?
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: I put my hand in the reflecting pool the day
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: before that poor guy was arrested.
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: Well you are now you just after as soon as
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: this gets posted, man, you're in.
• 55:59
  Speaker 3: T I didn't I didn't remove any of the blue coating.
• 56:04
  Speaker 3: I just wanted to see if it was actually green.
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: It was Kermit green. It was Kermit green.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: You know the fact that I don't know if you've
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: seen pictures of the guy who got the no Big contract,
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: but you're like, it's again. If you had created the character,
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: you'd be like, no, no, no, no, no, no, it's not real.
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: This doesn't happen.
• 56:30
  Speaker 3: How could that possibly vote go wrong?
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: I'm going to turn the reflecting pool into it into
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: a swimming.
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: Pool, Don't I mean talk about somebody not understanding why
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: there is a reflecting pool, what it's supposed to reflect?
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: Whose reflection sits there? Brother? Are she was supposed to
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: understand this? And let's anyway we're spiraling we are. Let's
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: go back to Gabriel. Let's go back to which is
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: uh it sounds like you already got is is Gabriel,
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: the next the next book? Or are you gonna it?
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: Is it is you are?
• 57:09
  Speaker 3: I don't talk about books that aren't written, but I
• 57:11
  Speaker 3: will say no, it.
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: Is a game, Gabriel next, Yes, And I'm I'm at
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: a hinge point in my contracts.
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: And and then you can make some decisions about.
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: You could if you could write your next book about
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: anything you wanted. And I'm at this stage in your career,
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: you honestly okay, And if you want to do you
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: have a nonfiction book in you that you have been
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: wanting to do, that you like to do. Do you
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: is there something you've contemplated, because I think you do
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: a great job of putting essentially putting your reporting into
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: the fiction, which is which is why I think.
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: You know, I write little pieces of nonfiction within the novels,
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: you know, sometimes I sort of go on high and
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: explain an issue in the art books. I love writing
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: biographies of painters and artists. These little MIDDI by My
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: Verire biography is pretty good. If you don't know anything
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: about Premiere, you could read my Vermire biography in the
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: Collector and you say you understand them. The little biography
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: that I wrote an auto for the inside job is
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: it was was pretty good. I don't think I I
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: would go into nonfiction. I have too many novels I
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: need to write in too little time.
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: But I do need to write. How many you got idiots? Man?
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: I have the illness, chuck, I do. I just cannot
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: not write. And I always say to people who want
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: to write, I cannot.
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: The beauty of you is, would you don't just write?
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: You literally hand write your novels. You handwrite your draft.
• 58:52
  Speaker 7: If I if I were to slide out like I
• 58:57
  Speaker 7: lie on the floor right over there, I don't know
• 58:59
  Speaker 7: if you and see the shot some my stereo over there,
• 59:03
  Speaker 7: and keep a pillow over there, and I just lay
• 59:06
  Speaker 7: right there and my stomach and right and and eventually
• 59:13
  Speaker 7: I'll move from there over to here and and take
• 59:17
  Speaker 7: what I've written longhand and and type that in.
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: But I just like, I like to get the distractions
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: away and keep my phone in another room, and just.
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: To keep an eye out of your life than to
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: handwrite stuff.
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: How there are already people, There are already people using it.
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: How have you incorporated it? I mean, you know the
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: problem with avoiding a is that search is so bad.
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: You're you almost have no choice but to use the
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: large language models as a search engine. I have not.
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: I've not gone there yet, and I will tell you that.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: You know, there are a couple of writers who have
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: acknowledged that they've used AI to write their books.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: I imagine they aren't imagine doing that. I just don't
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: get that.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 3: It's not writing. I don't know, find it, find another
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 3: line of work.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: But well, my worry about that is is is. And
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you've read these studies that already
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: show that even even though literally they're getting people to
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: write back in blue books again in college, you're reading
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: so that the sameness of writing when you're researching, now
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: that there is that it that is, it's going to be.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: It's going to be hard for it not to become
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: white noise, which I am very interesting.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 3: Well, my son is in law school, and.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: A very top notch law school, and they are training
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: them already incorporate AI into their their legal writing and
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: their legal research, knowing that they will be doing it
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: get their law firms. It's going to revolutionize the legal industry,
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: the amount of work that can be done by AI.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: I assume that we will no longer have a job
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: called paralegals.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: Maybe not, maybe not that you might need fewer associates,
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: for example, a.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: Lot of you on that. I mean, as I've gone
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: into business for myself over the last two years, I've
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: I've had AI review a contract, you know, so that
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: I didn't spend the money. I mean, I don't write
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: when you're when you're working for yourself, you know, you know,
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: you're like at least to help you with which questions
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: to ask? I need a first pass at this and
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: I don't interest and so it is. Look, there are
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: ways that it can help you, you know. I think
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: for small business, for entrepreneurs, it's potentially it's like giving
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: somebody who can't see eyeglasses, you know, and I.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 3: Can I ask you which, which which tools you're using Claude.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: I use all three because I don't trust one, so
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: I do try to if I use it for research,
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: go back and forth. But Claude's the one. You know.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: It's funny how right a narrative develops. It feels like
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: the claw the nthropic guys are slightly more ethical than
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: the other two. So you find yourself and I think
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: it's confirmation by it. I think it does much better,
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: you know, I don't. Yeah, I'm not. I'm not going
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: to tell you I'm smart enough to know that that's
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: for sure, but there is. It is true. It's reassuring
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: to me that the guys who run anthropics seem to
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: at least care, at least pay more lip service to
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: what's being built than say, the gentleman there runs Open Eye, right,
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: or did you uppening with rock and mister mosk?
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: Did you see Shane Harris's viral video when he asked,
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: uh the answerpic and how it felt about being used
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: in military applications?
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 3: Did you ever see that?
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: And it gave the most thoughtful, reasoned, scarily reasoned, deep
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: answer to how it felt. And I don't know if
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: you've been reading some of this, these new notions that.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 3: That AI is actually has a conscience, Yeah.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: That's sensitive, yes, and that that that's actually the goal
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: of it.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 3: Pretty soon you'll be able to yourself, you know, a
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 3: heart AI. You're gonna have an AI version of yourself
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 3: that will live forever.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: I guess I don't know if I I don't know
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: if the world wants that or or that's for sure. Well, Daniel,
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: you were my grandmother's favorite novelists, and I had to
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: say were because we lost her this year. She made
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: it to ninety nine years old, which means she read
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: twenty five of your Gabriel Lan books. Wow. Wow, Actually
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: she listened to the last three because she hasn't been
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: able to see you for for some time, but there was.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: She was always very excited. So and you guys were
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: always so good to her. Jamie was always so good
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: to her. So I just just publicly thank you for
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: for for keeping my grandmother company for two and five years.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: With mister Alan. You hear stuff like that all the time,
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: but I do. I'm tired of it either.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 3: I'm very sorry for your loss.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: You know, it's fantastic. You can't, you can't. She lived
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: an amazing life, so it was a celebration, you know,
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: of a great life. So okay, well, mister Silva, another one.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: And do you take a rest at all, because you're
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: already writing. But your rest is podcast your resting time. Yeah, rest,
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: I get.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: Chew over the world and and and and solve all
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: the ills of the world in one hour together. My
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: wife and son have conspired to take me out a
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: little European job after we got off book tour, but
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: I will I will take my book with me and
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: try to write in the morning because I just I
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: am so unsettled when I'm not working.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: I look, it's so true, the same thing, right, I
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: have the third thing. I always and in fact, I
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: do what you just described. If I do something first
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: thing in the morning, before Buddy wakes up, then I
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: can relax the rest of the day with them because
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: I feel like, well, I didn't wait.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: That's right, and thank God that we are so crazy
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: about what we do that that that's the impulse. I
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: was just you know that. So I'm a non sleeper.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: I don't know about you, but so I'm always up
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: very very early. I can even just go hide someplace,
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: write a couple hundred words, and I'll feel better.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: There is that's the reporter in you. I think. You
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: know when you're a reporter, right, you always feel like
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: I got to hurry up and no stuff beforebody else.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: So I've always been an early riser for this. I
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: think the same.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: It's I would say that that being a reporter. I
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: started wire service.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 4: Okay, like the old writing writing over the burrowing of reporting. Man,
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 4: like you're just mainlining information, writing over the phone with
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 4: a notebook in your hand, you know, could dictate and
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 4: write very fast.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: And and and I was a UPI you know, no punctuation.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: They really wanted to punctuate our sentences with anything other
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: than a period.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: And that's why with my.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: Training ground and I had really good adventures and good
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: and good uh partners and teachers and colleagues, and I
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: learned a lot. And it's been a big influence on me,
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: just just like everyway started as a newspaper writer. I
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: was drawn to writers who started their career that way,
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: and I had the same Fine.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: It's funny, I don't look for them when I look
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: for new but it's inevitably the writers I like best
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: all started as daily news reporters, right, And that tells
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: me something, which it means they write in the rhythm
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: that I think too. So I think you're right about that.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: Good congrats, as always give my best.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: What a pleasure this has been