Latest / Identity at the Center / #203 - Open-Source in IGA with Igor Farinic

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#203 - Open-Source in IGA with Igor Farinic · Identity at the Center

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This is identity at the center. If it has anything to do with I
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am this is the go-to podcast. So if you're a beginner or an
0:14
expert or anyone in between you've found your new home
0:18
welcome to Identity at the center now your host Jim
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McDonald and Jeff Steadman Welcome to the identity of the
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sender podcast I'm Jeff and that is Jim.
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Hey Jim. Hey Jeff.
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How are you not so bad yourself doing great.
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Start on a webinar this morning from Gartner and its really,
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really good. So the topic was the one page
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strategy and it kind of went over what the one-page strategy
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is and what it is. And the idea is to capture the
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essence, the the main point of the strategy not meant to
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replace the strategy, right? So, you know, in our experience
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we we've kind of done this in terms of we built, you know, the
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full identity and access management strategy for our
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clients and it could be a hundred slides.
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Then we create the executive presentation which may be 10
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slides, right? So really captures the essence,
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but this is like pushing yourself even further.
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How can you turn it into one slide and really the It I
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thought it was like kind of geniuses like the boil this
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strategy down into one slide it really becomes a conversation
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Kickstarter with any stakeholder population which is really what
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the executive presentation was is meant to be, which is kind of
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a Roadshow deck that you can adapt to the talking to HR or
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you're talking to marketing or you're talking to a another
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business unit or part of it. You know that's meant to
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Kickstarter but still getting through 10 12 sides with
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somebody is not the easiest thing to do but if you can just
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throw one slide up throw it on the screen or have a printout,
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it just it's really effective. Communication tool.
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What do you think? Yeah, I am told her, right.
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I was wondering where that you sent me a OneDrive Linker,
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whatever one no link to check something.
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I was like, all right. Well I wonder where this came
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from. Now I know what you were sitting
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on a webinar while was well, I was working gym on call.
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Well no I mean that I'm glad you said that because Fleet I was
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working too. Yeah, I think a big part of what
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everybody should be doing with some part of their week is
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sharpening. The saw I How you getting
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better, you know, this was my first exposure to the one-page
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strategy or that concept. But you know, if you're not
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refreshing your thoughts and kind of, not only reinforced me
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what, you know, maybe challenging what, you know,
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however, you want to look at it but you've got to be doing
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something to get yourself better or not only going to just like
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stag me, you're actually going to get worse, they get left
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behind, get left behind. So anyway, I thought this was a
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really effective tool that I'm going to try to To not only you
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know do four big identity strategy projects for clients
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but also make an effective tool for other efforts I'm working
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on. It's really like can I get this
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down into? Can I summarize this piece of
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work this strategy into one slide to make it kind of an
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effective communication to see. Now you're talking my language
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because I think this is absolutely a skill that everyone
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should have is being able to distill You know, whatever their
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message is down to a brief concise summary story, something
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like that. I think there's this natural
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reaction to jam. A whole bunch of information as
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much as you can into, you know, one slide or one conversation
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or, you know, one email whatever may be and it becomes
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overwhelming. And I think this is, this is a
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skill that I think a lot of people it doesn't come naturally
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to throw. It doesn't come naturally for
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me, you know, trying to, you know, make the topic.
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A tional and relatable to whoever you're talking to if you
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can do that, you're going to go a lot further quicker because
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you're going to get buy-in from other folks that are out there,
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you know, there's a time to have a technical conversation and
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there is absolutely time to not have a technical conversation
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and you need to be able to flip between both, you know, with
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ease and make sure that you can communicate effectively.
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That's right. Yeah.
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And you know, I was kind of thinking in terms of kind of a
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one Tragically, if you're going to make a one-page strategy for
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IGA, you might have things in there like on-boarding and
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off-boarding people, right? It's important part and it makes
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a lot interest folks from HR, for sure.
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Then you've got, like, the access recertification been
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you've got role-based access control.
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So each of those kind of speaks to different audiences and I
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think pulling all that together. You now have the conversation.
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With the CIO. So they understand, okay, here's
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all. The stakeholders that are going
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to be interested that get benefit from this investment
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that you're going to make. But I mean, see what I found is
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like the more senior people get in terms of like their level
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within the organization, the better you have to do to kind of
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like make sure your message right, I guess the point quickly
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because they don't have time to waste and if you're going to Try
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to run them through 30 slides before getting to the point like
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you're going to lose them. I think it's a difference
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between data and a report and a message and a story and it's
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something you and I have done for years is like, what's the
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story as we're going through conversations?
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Especially when we're talking with key stakeholders Executives
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or things is because one thing to have the, have the data, the
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other one is, what is the message?
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And they're two different things.
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And, you know, I think Pro tip for all the folks are out there
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trying to communicate with you. You know, people to get funding
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agreement by in whatever, maybe is make sure you understand the
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difference and that you're communicating the right message
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at the right time with the right people.
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Yeah, yeah. And and, you know, going back to
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this one pagers, it's not meant to replace the detail because
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you might be sitting out there. Like what kind of strategy is
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only one page, right? The idea isn't that it replaces
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having a detail strategies shows.
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I got a simple I guess. Simple one-page I am.
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Strategy for you. Should we do I am one page?
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Yes. Alright.
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Next, right done. Okay.
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Yeah. Then you gotta start peeling
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back the onion but for sure right.
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I'm glad you mentioned Gardener because I think that's a good
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segue. I think by the time folks are
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listening to, this will be about a week out or so from the
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Gartner I am Summit that you and I are both going to be at.
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So we there onstage grilling Becky and Henry K on a variety
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of IM topics. Get a lot of great questions
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from listeners to going to see some Trends and themes.
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So starting to incorporate that into sort of our plan of attack
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if you will for our conversation with those two.
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But I'm getting, I'm starting to get excited to start to become a
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little more real. It'll be cool to have, you know,
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familiar faces. Hopefully, you know, in the
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audience a little nervous. I think it's first time again
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kind doing this on and on such a big stage but I'm sure I'm sure.
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We'll we'll crank out a good conversation.
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What do you think? Well, I think it's really
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interesting that we're up there. Kind of do Like simulating a
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podcast episode, right? And use the term, we're going to
7:47
be grilling and then we need a plan of attack.
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I've only those worth so that was the message.
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I used the the words right? Or very specifically chosen for
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how I wanted to get that. I think you're picking up on it.
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Okay. Well I mean you know typically
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the identity of the sender podcast is not Meet the Press
8:06
right? I mean it's it's not softball
8:08
questions. Any think we really get into
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good topics but I think we do it in a way that makes people feel
8:16
comfortable listening and being a guest on the show.
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So but I think what's really interesting is, you know, Henry
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Kay who's you know, the person who had this Grand Vision of
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doing this session really wants us to go in there and not have
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it be, you know, Bubblegum and lollipop.
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Yeah, I mean fair but You know, I'm specifically trying to come
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up with stuff and Source things that are not things that you
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would normally hear a Gartner analyst talk about or that they
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haven't answered like 7,000 times before.
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So, something a little more unique, maybe more personal,
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right, things like that. I think we've got a good list
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right now. It's starting to, you know,
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crystallize a little bit. So, you know, we'll see how it
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goes. But the problem that we have Jim
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is we have way too much to talk about and we only have 30
9:12
minutes. It's and realistically we
9:13
probably have like 25 minutes, right?
9:15
If you kind of think about closings openings and, you know,
9:18
kind of, almost kind of filler stuff in between, so trying to,
9:21
you know, cram as much as we would love to do it at 25
9:25
minutes, is going to be challenged my ideas.
9:27
Like we have a little timer on the screen for like the slides.
9:31
As I are going to spend like 30 seconds on this topic.
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So like go right lightning rounds, you know, things like
9:36
that to try and get as many questions as we can, you know,
9:39
out and still have it be a viable discussion.
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I will be, will be a challenge but, you know, I think we're up
9:45
for it. I don't think we should lose the
9:47
one idea. I mean, I don't think we should
9:50
do it or one idea. I think merits discussion, which
9:53
was the hot wings, like, doing something where it's like, we
9:56
get progressively hotter and hotter food that people eat.
9:59
But, you know, that makes me the very unpredictable.
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I think that adds a level of complexity to it.
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I would do it. I'm not a spicy, you know, food
10:08
person. I think I would probably tap out
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at like, maybe medium hot sauce. I think I would be the first to
10:15
go in that first. Voted off the island for the
10:18
spicy food stuff, but I'm, yeah, I don't know what, we'll be able
10:21
to put together on that, but I think that idea like was like,
10:23
hey, let's bring the hot ones kind of idea to the
10:26
conversation. Like, I don't think we could
10:28
have like Salon wings, but maybe it's, you know, you do a dab of
10:30
hot sauce in some thing, or maybe eat something really sour
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or, you know, you take a drink. I don't think we'll be able to
10:37
shots or anything, but that was kind of like one of the ideas
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that were playing around with item.
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Yeah, but see. I'm fine with it.
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So I know that our this episode is just going live right before
10:49
the conference. But if you haven't heard yet,
10:52
we're doing an identity of the center community, meet up.
10:56
So if you're a listener of the podcast you know reach out to
11:00
Jeff for. I hopefully there's still some
11:03
open slots, I mean registration or somewhat limited we had were
11:07
renting a place which is called Corky's gaming Beast.
11:12
Stroh and we'd love to get more people in.
11:16
But I'm afraid that by the time this episode publishes this
11:20
message will already be void. But anyway if you're going to be
11:25
at the Gardner conference at least reach out to Jeff and I
11:28
would love to shake her hand and and thank you for listening to
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the podcast. Absolutely.
11:34
And I have gotten some nice messages.
11:35
They think you know we've had our recent new intro that people
11:40
are starting to hear. Now for the first few times as
11:42
we've gone through Us. And there was a question that I
11:45
got into my LinkedIn from Michael and he and I met, I
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think it was last year maybe a year before at authenticate
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conference and I'm going off memory.
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So sorry, Michael, they got the details wrong but he was asking
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because we had that if you remember we had this whole
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conversation or what's difference between digital
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identity and identity and access management.
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Like so once if you want to thank and we were having a lot
12:08
of different discussions around that we've been having this same
12:10
discussion with like, even Sarah You know, recently in some
12:13
recent podcasts and he asked a really a really deep question
12:20
like in our intro, it talks about, you know, if it has
12:23
anything to do with I am this is the place and he was wondering
12:28
why we chose I am versus digital identity that context.
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And I said well, you know, that's a very deep question,
12:35
first of all, and it's not very deep answer.
12:36
It was more on the lines of well, identity has a lot of
12:40
other connotations and Things like that.
12:43
So that was kind of out digital identity to me, still felt like
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it was, I do not necessarily the industry term so rather than try
12:50
to confuse people is like, let's just most people know, I, you
12:54
know, whether or not they're using it in the right context,
12:55
or how we mean it was kind of a separate thing was like, okay,
12:58
well, I am a still like the go-to acronym for everything
13:02
that you and I talked about. So we kind of left it that, of
13:05
course, you know, things change, That's The Power of, you know,
13:08
opinions and things like that. We can always change it down the
13:11
road. But as That was a great
13:13
question. I mean if you think about some,
13:15
you know I mean if you think about some of the yesterday
13:17
we've had on the show folks like sarclarke and what she's working
13:22
on a MasterCard, I don't think that I don't think of that is I
13:26
am so Michaels. Probably right.
13:30
If if where he was going with it is like your shirt is really
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more about digital identities. Probably.
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Right. And it's also interesting that,
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you know, we didn't think of this question sooner.
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Like on our own, right? We listened to that clip for me,
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that's the first time. I've actually thought of that
13:48
question. I'm like yeah we've listened to
13:50
that, that clip of the new intro over and over again, and that
13:55
didn't cross my mind wants sad for True, what we call it
14:00
identity at the center. We talk about identity access
14:02
management digital ID. I mean I think we're taking, you
14:06
know, I've taken a little bit of artistic license with it, right,
14:09
rather than calling like I am at the center or digitally to the
14:11
center. We just settle down Identity of
14:12
the center and then we bring it around with like what are we
14:16
talking about identity access you know things like that.
14:20
So I don't know maybe will change in the future who knows?
14:23
But I just spent money on it. I'm going to get some usage out
14:26
of it. We're gonna we're gonna keep the
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same clip. It is still good question.
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Yeah. Okay.
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So why don't we go ahead and get into our topic for today?
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Because we've got a really exciting actually conversation
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because this is something we've touched on a couple of times.
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I think, maybe in past, or maybe, maybe even just once I
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think your gym your idea for this was the talk about sort of
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the open source world when it comes identity and access
14:48
management and we have joining us today for the first time on
14:52
the show Igor Ferran each, he's the co-founder at evolved IAM
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and want to welcome him to the show.
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So welcome to the show Igor. Thanks for having me.
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Yeah. So before we get too far along
15:06
here. Why don't we learn a little bit
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more sort of out? Your identity origin story?
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Can you tell us? How did you get?
15:12
Into the identity space, your co-founder of all the amount to
15:15
give you a chance to, I'm going to ask you about evolving in a
15:17
second. But how did you get into
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identity? Is this something that you chose
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or did it choose? You.
15:23
Yeah. Actually it tells me actually, I
15:26
was a Java developer back then and actually one day I met my
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other co-founder rattled on someone cheek will lose already.
15:35
Several years into identity management back then and
15:39
actually buddy took several years to actually As for myself,
15:43
from a Java developer in tow identity developer and actually
15:48
the situation that change that was actually economic downturn
15:52
in 2008. And then we are looking for new
15:56
opportunities for actually to actually search for to make the
15:59
living. We had a lot of free time so we
16:04
experimented with out of Technologies and well produce,
16:08
go to market. But finally, we settled with it
16:11
point, and actually, So we found it.
16:13
Level Dome around me point in 2011.
16:16
So for people who aren't familiar with of all the, and
16:20
the midpoint product that you guys have, this is an open
16:23
source identity and access management technology.
16:26
Can you give us? Sort of like the 32nd to maybe
16:29
one minute elevator ride, you know, pitch.
16:31
We don't want to turn into a commercial but we're going to
16:34
will talk about it. But, you know, for those who
16:36
aren't familiar, introduced us to volume, yeah, actually I'll
16:39
be stuck see dozens technology company and And as a pure open
16:43
source company and we are still pure, open source tool today
16:47
actually we are open source. Is our mission is not only about
16:51
the open call to. It's also we are all opening,
16:55
all the ideas, all the documentation always base, we
16:58
helped publish a book to the public.
17:01
We are publishing also the methodologies to the public, and
17:05
also all the integration connectors coding and so on.
17:09
So you have through open source, believers.
17:13
Actually, I would say, oh, we are also a leader in open
17:15
source. IGA because if you are watching
17:19
the market guide, from Gartner or cooking, are there are no
17:22
other open-source components there on other products are.
17:26
So we are proud that we are a leader in open source.
17:29
IGA, I would say also of, we are building meet one, as a platform
17:34
to enable other solution to grow on top of midpoint, it's from
17:40
these days. It's so our hours of our
17:44
partners are building codes. Ocean ultimate point for
17:48
different market segments, actually, we are focusing on the
17:53
midpoint needs of the product and the platform.
17:56
And we have built a partnership Network on all on top of that,
18:01
where we are covering called, 45 different countries with our
18:04
partners. Were actually partners are those
18:06
that are doing the cells and actually, delivering the
18:09
implementation projects actually background Or so I want to start
18:14
the conversation around IGA at a very simplistic level and I'm
18:19
going to bounce Jeff because I'm going to hear what his
18:22
definition of this is as well. But in your words how would you
18:27
define IGA identity, governance and administration.
18:32
Actually personally, I think it's very to engine question by
18:36
beings that are all actually, you are looking for answers for
18:40
answers actually who has access to RN Y, and you have different
18:44
processes, bunch of processes around that to actually get
18:48
those answers. Basically, you are managing and
18:51
governing or managing identities, and governing the
18:54
organization. And yeah, this is how I actually
18:58
do. And actually, I have to talk to
19:00
that organizations to actually get better idea.
19:04
We saw looking for both specifically in these IGA space,
19:08
right? Yeah.
19:09
Sounds like from your perspective, you're saying,
19:11
well, it's less. How I Define IGA more, how my
19:14
clients to find energy a Jeff? I'm wondering, you know, same
19:18
question you, how do you define that ga Yeah, I mean I think you
19:22
cover the like some of the use cases.
19:24
I think about it from user lifecycle management.
19:27
Basically, in the audit stuff that goes behind, it, can you do
19:30
you know who has access to what? And can you prove it?
19:34
It is that access appropriate is appropriate.
19:36
I think those are some of the main things.
19:37
That's I think it's one of those glue technologies that sits
19:40
behind the scenes and, you know, if it's, if it's working the way
19:43
it's intended, it's almost invisible other than just maybe
19:46
a front-end interface that is, you know, providing a window
19:48
into, oh, here's Jim or hears it.
19:51
Igor. And, you know, they have these
19:53
different types of access and here's all the receipts that
19:55
we've kept indicating that as actually appropriate and was
19:59
approved and those sorts of things.
20:02
So I'm going to give my two cents here, I think of IgA, kind
20:07
of like I think of I am we referred.
20:09
I am as if it's one thing and I kind of always came from the
20:14
perspective that it was two things.
20:16
Identity management like IDM and access management am so it got
20:23
kind of shortened into one space identity and access management
20:27
to me, identity, governance and administration or actually I
20:30
think at one point We're calling the space iag and any
20:34
Administration governance. The idea is identity
20:37
Administration identity governance.
20:39
So I think the IDM identity management is really the
20:44
identity Administration, the idea that you have this group of
20:48
users that you centrally manage, you give them access and then
20:52
you provision that out to Applications, then came along
20:56
this identity. Governance space where the idea
20:59
was. Well now we want to know who has
21:00
access to what Not only did what did we provision out?
21:03
But what actually exists we pull all that together correlated to
21:09
a single identity and now you know whoever's interested in
21:13
knowing what access a person has has one place to go to know who
21:17
has access to what so to me that's the identity governance
21:22
but you know organizations need both they need that centralized
21:26
control to me. That's the identity
21:29
Administration side. So what I found I think with the
21:36
you know, IGA becoming so popular is that most
21:40
organizations are doing some level of IgA now.
21:45
So, the question that I wanted to ask you Igor is that the IGA
21:51
Market has so many companies. That are delivering IGA
21:56
Solutions, large Enterprises small, Enterprise different
22:00
industry focuses are there still populations of organizations
22:05
that are underserved? Yeah, I would say definitely.
22:08
Actually think this is one of the reasons we are here even
22:10
after 10 years of actually existence and we are actually
22:14
growing and I must say we are bootstrap company.
22:18
So actually we have to make the living out of that actually of
22:22
our product. Otherwise we've only been here.
22:24
Anymore. So, we have been trying to
22:29
identify, there are some market segments, some of them are Niche
22:33
segments, that and also communities that are
22:35
underserved. So I would say they'll be used
22:39
communities. Actually, those that are looking
22:41
for Open Source Ocean. So actually, if someone type
22:44
into Google open source, identity governance or identity
22:47
management actually, we are on the first page.
22:49
So that's actually great for us, then all there are.
22:53
So there is a So companies that are not looking explicitly into
22:58
open source, but actually for the benefits that actually, they
23:01
would like to download download, try and play with a profitable
23:04
product before. They adopt it before, they
23:06
prepare that the story and the message for the leadership in
23:10
your company to actually move forward with the project.
23:14
There are other underserved verticals like a small to medium
23:18
Enterprises. And there is a also, a very
23:22
specific group of very small car.
23:24
Companies that are all working operating in or regulated
23:28
environment. So, there are also under.
23:33
So companies, I would say today because everyone is going for a
23:37
fork out solution. So, we are also focusing on
23:41
those who customers that I would like to stay or either
23:44
on-premise or get infrastructure as a service solution and would
23:48
like to operate all the IGA that way.
23:52
Actually, we are not leaving. Also the cattle of the, I'm not
23:55
leaving that cloud customers behind.
23:56
Because so our partnership network is building called The
23:59
Cult ocean for a four different segments, new segments or
24:04
geographical locations to actually serve serve.
24:06
Those needs. So I would say pretty much still
24:13
a lot of customers that actually are looking for a four hours
24:18
ocean and actually, we are actively working with those
24:21
customers. They are helping us to build a
24:25
product and actually thanks to that.
24:28
We can expand to a Jets and Jason markets as well.
24:34
So thanks to God. We are growing.
24:37
Yeah, that's interesting. So you mention small mid-sized
24:40
Enterprises Jeff. I mean that's usually when we
24:44
work with larger Enterprises and they are looking at IGA, it's
24:50
usually to replace some system, whereas, a lot of times with
24:54
small to mid-sized, especially smaller or entry into mid-sized,
25:00
they're replacing paper processes, you know.
25:03
So that's what I see a lot. I kind of feel like the the big
25:07
holdup is either that or they just have finally gotten to the
25:12
point where it's like. Alright, we're at this breaking
25:14
point. We need automation or it's, you
25:19
know, what's held them back is really cost.
25:21
I mean, i j Solutions can be pretty expensive.
25:24
What's your take on that? Not me, it's, you hit it, right?
25:27
I think there's that natural inflection point where it's
25:30
like, okay, we're done taken faxes and we're going to start,
25:33
you know, doing things for an automation standpoint.
25:36
Do you build it? Do you buy it and if you build
25:39
it, what are you building it on? Is going to be something that's
25:42
already. Sort of pre-existing, you know,
25:43
open source Solutions, sort of like, you know what?
25:46
What Igor and evolving to bring to the table or I think tends to
25:51
happen more often. To this, you know, some
25:53
developer goes off and build some, you know, crazy system on
25:55
their own and now it becomes like, hey you just, you know,
25:59
you just built an IGA platform. If you're all windows already
26:01
products out there are things like that because you were
26:03
trying to save money or whatever maybe the next thing you know
26:06
it's ten years later and this solution that was designed to be
26:09
like a six-month stopgap has now, you know, become so
26:12
ingrained that it's very difficult to remove the
26:14
Enterprise or upgrade or maintain or anything like that.
26:18
So you know, really where the working with the client.
26:21
And they had a And this was a client called the merge remember
26:25
the merge. Yeah.
26:27
And we're going to get to kind of like, I think education right
26:30
probably makes a lot of sense of it.
26:31
Probably talk about that was partly conversation, but I'm
26:33
even thinking of, you know, there's one client I had way
26:35
back in the day that basically built and IGA platform on the
26:40
Mainframe and this is a full-featured system.
26:43
Like, it was, you know, sale point before sale Point like, 20
26:47
years ago, right? That that sort of, you know,
26:49
platform so and they were Really struggling with.
26:52
How do we move off of this? We don't have as many people who
26:55
are, you know, trained up on the Mainframe.
26:56
Those folks are starting to retire and it's kind of like the
26:59
coal Bowl. You know, people they were left
27:02
behind and then all of a sudden they're not demand again because
27:04
no one else knows their stuff. Yeah, I kind of feel like the
27:08
way a lot of commercial software gets built is that somebody has
27:12
a small consulting firm. They built a system for a
27:15
client. And then they say home, you
27:17
know, now we know how to build a system for managing and
27:21
Identities, let's turn into a commercial product.
27:26
I don't have any proof of that except what I've observed, but,
27:30
you know, back onto this IGA topic, you know, one of the
27:35
things that I don't know, I've kind of struggled with is that
27:40
Gardener, I think considers IGA as mature to the point where
27:45
they no longer publish the magic quadrant and I struggle with
27:48
that because I see a lot of stuff happening.
27:51
But, you know, let's just take for granted that it is a space.
27:57
That's reached a certain level of maturity.
27:59
My question too. Eager is how do you innovate in
28:02
a space? That's reached that level of
28:04
maturity, I'll throw Mark has matured.
28:08
That's what we are feeling that actually adoption locks box
28:12
behind. So there is still a lot of
28:14
opportunities for for actually adoption and actually deployment
28:18
of IgA Solutions and actually there are Any studies that show
28:23
actually out there from Big corporations, or independent
28:28
organization that actually are mentioning even the companies
28:32
are struggling even with basic processes for IGA.
28:36
So actually, and for us, it seems that actually the common
28:41
problem for every organization is collect data are not clean
28:48
enough to actually to deploy the solution.
28:51
I mean, the day. A time I didn't digital
28:53
identities are not good enough to actually, to actually start
28:56
adopting a product or a solution defined a solution.
29:00
So actually, this is one of our Focus that we see that
29:04
Innovation will happen that. Actually, we need to deploy the
29:07
product with any environments of start working with that
29:10
environment. Maybe start marking the
29:13
identities, to actually do not touch those four for some time
29:17
and actually equally for them identities.
29:20
Marcus to in the new can Cardboard need identities.
29:23
And and this kind of stuff. So we see a lot of innovation
29:27
bill on happen on the data site in this.
29:31
In this case, it's identities. Yeah.
29:34
Yeah, I think, you know, Innovation coming in many
29:38
different ways. I think, faster time to value is
29:42
certainly one. I think things like, how do you,
29:46
you know, get to the point of having cleaner data, I mean,
29:48
that you start getting value right away from that.
29:51
So, so that might be a transition to my next question,
29:56
which is really what are some of the biggest problems that
29:59
organizations face that in your in your experience?
30:03
What is the biggest problem that they face in?
30:06
In IGA we are strong Believers that we have to do something
30:09
about that. Identity style, quality of the
30:12
data and not to Ohio actually garbage in garbage out and
30:15
actually me out we are moving coal or are actually product to
30:19
actually Would be very effective to actually start working with
30:25
any identity. They copy, we will get in our
30:28
environment and actually, especially we have to be very
30:31
smart as far the effective about that because we are open source
30:34
and we have to bring value to the customers as soon as
30:37
possible to get the subscription because we are living out of the
30:42
subscription and we have very strong kind of motivation that
30:44
our customers will be Successful as soon as possible.
30:49
Yeah, I think garbage in garbage out is that's that's been the
30:53
same problem for the past 20 years so I can even add much of
30:58
that. Last question is area of IgA
31:02
which is around something. We've had some guests speak on
31:06
the the podcast about which is this idea of convergence, the
31:11
idea that IGA access management privileged access management
31:17
Cloud infrastructure entitlement management or kind of, kind of
31:20
converge into a single platform. Not sure if you agree with that
31:24
or not. My question to you is, you know,
31:27
what is the IGA market look like?
31:28
And, you know, five years down the road, ten years down the
31:31
road. Yeah, actually, I partially
31:33
agree with that some solution built or actually matching tool
31:38
angle because offering, but actually for that, for example,
31:42
for Access for ssl's and access management, we see there are so
31:46
many He products out there and I reorganization using something
31:49
different. So we rather see that actually
31:52
it's a complementary products to IGA and we see that there will
31:56
be integration so be prepared all interfaces for this kind of
31:59
integration. And I will thanks to open
32:02
source. We are able to have the
32:04
documentation, how to integrate, different SSO, sorbets point.
32:08
So it's working great for us of then for the convergence, for L
32:15
cloud. I'm not sure what will happen in
32:18
the next couple of years because there are also strong movements
32:21
that some organization are moving out of the cloud.
32:28
Like to die on premise infrastructure so we will see
32:31
what will happen in the coming years and there is another
32:38
moment I would say we see that some thanks to a I break through
32:43
and check the GPT actually. This is working very well for us
32:48
because we are keeping all the knowledge out there for free in
32:53
the public domain and one can't rent a given the chat CP.
32:59
Modell to actually own our data and actually this model can
33:02
answer and help engineers and developers to actually match to
33:07
that point midpoint much faster and I would say they're the some
33:12
Innovation will happen there, you know, in the beginning it
33:17
will help you to actually you don't have to Google for for to
33:22
go for some, some simple answers but you will ask gbt but your I
33:28
still say I will train more then I can imagine that if you would
33:33
like to connect some system that is not so common, it will
33:36
extract the actually type of protocols from the ideal extract
33:41
desk map for from the system. It will take the inspiration
33:44
from the existing connectors called bill, which we have
33:47
actually tensor for collectors out there that are in the open
33:52
source domain. And actually, it will propose
33:54
you or code will be your pair program.
33:57
To develop a new connector with you.
34:00
And actually, it was speed out of effort and expect special.
34:04
It will help you with polar protic plate configuration for
34:10
any Open Source Ocean and actually help you or even to
34:14
write the integration code. So that's actually great and
34:17
it's working great for us. And yeah, I'm happy about that.
34:23
Yeah, I'm fascinated by the recent advancements with the
34:26
natural language processing. Assessing the AI, right?
34:28
Jackie b. T Lambda things like that.
34:32
It, I'm excited by it. I'm a little disappointed that
34:36
my idea for a chatbot like, 10 years ago, as like a front end
34:39
for an IJ platform. Was something that I just never
34:42
pursued because I can certainly see the option.
34:44
I was like, you're totally right.
34:45
I was like in, you know, in a decade two decades, whatever it
34:49
might be, people probably won't be writing code, they will be
34:52
asking a, i, to do something for them.
34:55
And behind the scenes, the magic is You know, taking the taking
34:59
the intent of the request factoring together, you know
35:03
what? That package looks like and then
35:05
delivering. Yeah, here's what your
35:06
integrated looks like, right? Hey, we need an integrator for.
35:09
I don't know. I'm is an OCTA to be able to do
35:12
some sort of, you know, chapter management for nonprofit, you
35:16
know, sort of exist today. But not really like here.
35:19
Let's Cobble something together. They having having that as a
35:23
functionality, is cool. And we'll certainly, I think
35:25
accelerate Deployment methodologies and things like
35:29
that. When it comes to the open source
35:32
side of the world, though, we're dealing with models in the, in
35:37
the AI space that are not necessarily open source, right?
35:40
There are the property of certain organizations, I guess,
35:44
how do you balance that open-source sort of mentality.
35:47
Versus, you know, maybe you will might be proprietary AI models
35:53
or other parts of the product. Yeah.
35:54
Actually, there are some generate a eyes that actually
35:57
Help you tune your configure, the midpoint, for example, or
36:01
actually write some borrow boilerplate code.
36:04
But actually, there is still a space for Innovation to build AI
36:10
inside the product. Like, for example, I cannot
36:12
imagine changing particular help you to actually read role mining
36:16
for your organization. So it's so specific problem that
36:20
you will still need to have a, some kind of statistical model
36:23
or a our machine learning to actually have it.
36:25
That there are also other issues So like, for example, if you
36:29
help banjo Factory, boost that you call Accounts or identities
36:32
and need to correlate those that actually, this is a specific
36:35
problem that actually you need some kind of recommender system
36:38
with feedback loop and building to the product where you
36:41
actually need that to actually improve over the time to
36:44
actually see or speed up the correlation and clean up your
36:49
data. And there are also some some
36:52
other ways where you can improve and help protect specific AI
36:56
actually we are Working Klein, experimenting Covetous, felt
37:00
kind of statistical models already.
37:05
And yeah, we see there. There will be benefits for for
37:08
the clients as well here. So you got me on the side track,
37:11
where the AI, we've got a joke, we've been calling this, a, i at
37:14
the center for the last few weeks because it keeps coming
37:17
up. I think it's just where we're
37:18
at. For me, you know, hey, as of,
37:20
you know, February and March 20 2003, this is this, what's
37:23
happened to be in those kind of a, the Zeitgeist I want to Pivot
37:26
back to the open. Source question because I think
37:28
this is something that's relatively unique, right?
37:30
Yeah. In especially, in the IGA Space
37:32
is having an open and open source IG a product, I guess,
37:37
how do you define what open source means?
37:39
And I guess what makes the software open source, is it the
37:43
the software itself is it? The documentation is that the,
37:47
the, the openness of the, the coding to allow people to pick
37:51
it apart and take the parts that they want?
37:54
How do you define it? Yeah.
37:56
Actually the pants who you are actually for some kind of
38:00
developer or Engineers, it's all open code and a principal I
38:04
documentation of methodologies. Knowledge base is very important
38:08
but for, for some other, so that all open as in, that'll be in
38:13
the way that actually you can or try it downloaded configure, it
38:17
yourself and actually move forward when you are ready for
38:22
some their directs, you know, this Um, typical open eyes
38:28
inside, eyes, actually, increasing Innovation or
38:33
security. But actually I have to agree
38:34
with the increased security like, for example there is get
38:37
out that is scanning the well this all the source code, the
38:41
repository is actually the dependencies that salon and
38:44
actually helping you to actually avoid security issues before
38:49
something bad happens. Like, you know, you all if you
38:52
are using some some library that It's already than Factory some
38:57
security problem. You know, you can upgrade and
39:00
you don't even have to log into the code.
39:03
So that that's actually great. We see, it's actually happening.
39:07
And thanks to many Open Source. Ocean.
39:11
Even get habit. Since improving very well in
39:14
these open domain, and I would say, actually very important
39:18
part of Open Source is also Community.
39:22
It's actually can be well different.
39:26
Cohort dot are strengthening that Edie ideas are following
39:30
and actually, there is a collaboration.
39:32
So, I would say communities, crucial, part of the open
39:37
source. Yeah, definitely gives the
39:40
strength right as you have multiple people looking at it
39:42
and picking apart, make sure that it's the strongest product
39:45
possible and is as clean as possible to from a coding
39:49
perspective. I think there is also, and I
39:52
think this is a misprint misconception.
39:54
Is that open sources Free gym is famous.
39:59
I don't know who said it originally, but I'll tribute at
40:00
the gym is free. Is it a puppy?
40:04
You know, there is a lot of caring feeling that sort of, you
40:06
know, goes along with it from a support perspective or maybe,
40:09
you know, other components, I guess, what's your perspective
40:11
on, you know, is open source free and I guess what's free?
40:15
And what's not free when people are thinking about, hey, yeah,
40:18
maybe open source is the way you want to go because we think will
40:20
save money or maybe what their assumptions are really are what
40:25
the way they should be. About it.
40:26
How do you how do you portray that?
40:28
Yeah, that's a very good question actually.
40:30
I would say open source was never free and open source has
40:36
gone a long ways actually in the early days out of people helped
40:40
paid by their health for actually for maintaining the
40:44
open source but it has changed over the last decade and I would
40:49
say, open source has child different structure of expenses.
40:56
So sometimes you are saving some, some effort or money or
41:02
whatever, but actually the expense is always there.
41:05
Someone has to pay the salaries so pay for for for the time of
41:10
the people and I would say our story of.
41:13
So we have decided that you can do whatever you want with our
41:17
product but actually the breaking point is any actual you
41:21
would like to work with us, spend our time And actually did
41:26
that there is a strong boundary that actually you have to pay
41:30
for the services in form of flap subscriptions.
41:35
Move what type of organization typically does the busted open
41:38
source, because I think Jim and I kind of hid it earlier is the
41:42
education space. Seems to be pretty big on open
41:45
source. We see things like grouper and
41:47
shibboleth, and sort of things like that.
41:49
That's out there as well, that are very unique to those spaces.
41:52
I think there's a natural tendency to shift towards that
41:55
when it comes to those. Those sorts of Institutions is
41:58
do you agree with that? Are there other, you know,
42:01
organization types or Industries are verticals that tend to see
42:06
better success with an open source approach versus of?
42:10
That's maybe more commercial based Yeah.
42:14
Actually I mentioned already some some market segments Bill.
42:17
Well they're actually all open source these much more
42:20
successful and I will dad. Also there are all very large
42:24
organizations that are having very unique needs and actually
42:27
one of the benefits to actually go for.
42:30
Open source is also possibility to influence their Alma and
42:34
actually all that way it's working.
42:38
The product is working for these very large organization as as
42:41
they need and there is Another benefit of for very large or
42:45
identities sites that all open source product is scaling much
42:50
better from economic point of view.
42:52
So there and there's another benefit for them.
42:55
And I would say these days, I'll actually, you know, when we were
42:59
starting level, we have seen a lot of struggles, even in the
43:04
purchasing department, how to actually buy the open source and
43:07
so on actually, but all during the covid actually.
43:12
I don't know what happened but the adoption of Open Source also
43:17
improved our load. I've actually they are not this
43:20
question that were before and actually if organization is so
43:25
called a Open Source, Ocean is working for the for the
43:27
organization. They just find a way how to
43:29
actually purchase the subscription.
43:31
So if you think rolling, that's interesting that you felt like
43:36
you saw. It sounds to me like you saw an
43:38
uptick in the open source world when covid hit I wonder if that
43:42
was because more people had time to spend at home you know kind
43:45
of learning it. Or I guess what do you attribute
43:48
that to other than it was just the right place right time.
43:52
I don't think it's cause he's related each out.
43:54
Still. When we realized that actually
43:56
it's happening even in the IJ space and yeah actually I would
44:03
say it's not only about the IGA actually.
44:05
It's so age of Open Source outside so that there are also
44:12
Studies done where you can find that actually Solutions and
44:15
product Builds on open-source are actually, you know, you know
44:19
progressing and scaling very well.
44:23
If you are you wanted to just go back to one thing that you
44:26
stated that you see some organizations moving back away
44:33
from the cloud. I think the overall trend that
44:35
that I'm seeing any way is the opposite but I'm wondering what
44:40
what are you seeing that? As Is making you say hmm.
44:44
Some organizations are actually backing away from and I'm not
44:48
sure if you meant like Cloud as in software as a service or
44:52
infrastructure as a service or bit of both.
44:56
Actually, what I'm seeing, these actually infrastructure as a
44:59
service itself or some organization needs to looks
45:02
expensive to operate in this environment and actually when
45:05
you wake up from a infrastructure-as-a-service then
45:08
maybe you'll back up also from software as a service.
45:11
So We will see. Actually, maybe that's that will
45:16
be a trend maybe not but actually it's not so important
45:19
for us. We still have actually other
45:21
segments where we can grow and actually, yeah, we are happy.
45:25
So you're even really generous with your time and when I start
45:27
to get things wrapped up, I think you're the first guest
45:30
that we've had on from Slovakia. So first of all thank you for,
45:35
you know, for taking time in your day to or maybe in your
45:37
evening at this point, to be part of this.
45:40
I had a question around and people know me I like to eat and
45:44
we like to talk about food on this and I wanted to ask about
45:48
the Slovakian and if it's a dish or meal and you'll help me with
45:52
this and please forgive my pronunciation but brings of a
45:55
house key, can you explain what that is and educate Jim in
45:59
myself and others? Yeah yeah yeah actually brings
46:05
over Houston. He's a very national dish in
46:09
Slovakia and basically, it's very traditional meal taxol is
46:16
made out of potatoes. Like actual, you are eating very
46:20
small, no cheese with a cheese, but this cheap cheese is called
46:26
greens out and it's very special.
46:28
It's very soft, and actually you are drinking.
46:31
That with Gene chizik jeans jeans, Jean cheetah.
46:35
Very traditional drink, also very specific.
46:42
And that zika is made from hitting sheep's milk as well.
46:45
So it's kind of like I think the idea is you have nothing goes to
46:48
waste this sort of part of this dish, right?
46:51
Yeah, exactly. So is it, you know what, it
46:55
wasn't clear to me is that alcoholic, is it, fermented as
46:58
are things added to it, or is it more of a milk base type, you
47:03
know, non-alcoholic beer and it's non-alcoholic beverage?
47:08
Well, they do well nothing's perfect.
47:12
So you actually okay, you'll candy you can eat the brains of
47:16
a house key with bacon. It's very, very tasty.
47:19
I was going to ask because I think you mentioned, like, the
47:21
Meucci I've heard like on Onions, I've heard chives, I've
47:24
heard bacon, obviously the the cheese itself and what I hear,
47:29
you're something is like a national dish.
47:31
I guess is it popular with locals or is this something
47:36
that's like, yeah, it's a national dish, but locals,
47:39
really, don't eat. It is, I guess how popular is
47:41
it, you know, to actually eat it as a Saluki Yeah, either you
47:46
love it or hate it actually I love it so I'm eating that
47:50
pretty often. Okay Jim.
47:54
You're in Augusta Georgia. Any native I guess dishes to
47:58
your area of the woods. Yeah.
48:01
So they have something in the South and I don't know if it's
48:04
native to Augusta called pimento cheese.
48:08
I've never tried it so I don't want to criticize it too much
48:12
but it doesn't look like something.
48:13
I'd like to eat. Eat.
48:15
Of course we have like soul food and lots of fried chicken.
48:19
I think that's common across the South.
48:21
But one thing because I'm going to Gus though home of the
48:24
Masters Golf Tournament, something that's famous that
48:27
they do at the Augusta National. The the home of the Masters is
48:32
they still sell sandwiches for $1 and there's our egg salad
48:36
sandwiches. Another food like to me that
48:40
just eggs, I don't think make good sandwiches But that's just
48:46
that's just me man. I mean, you know, when I was
48:49
over in Holland for a while, they put eggs on sandwiches,
48:53
like hard-boiled eggs which it's only one step from exiled,
48:56
right? It's just missing the
48:57
mayonnaise. But I don't know.
49:01
I just it's just not the kind of dish that strikes me as
49:05
something I'd like. So I haven't tried them yet.
49:08
A $1 egg salad sandwich in the middle of Georgia.
49:13
Heat does not sound to me like a very refreshing.
49:18
Well, here's the thing, I must be a money loser because I mean
49:20
they're not going to you know they get to the college's
49:24
thousands. Yeah right exactly they get
49:26
thousands of dollars for you know?
49:29
Coming to the event. And you know, it's it's more or
49:35
less what Augusta or semesters all about is tradition.
49:39
And so at some point they started the tradition of $1 egg
49:42
salad sandwiches. I'm sure became a money loser
49:45
but they kept doing it anyway. So that that part that aspect, I
49:49
find pretty cool. I just wish it was something
49:52
that, you know, I'd want to eat. We mentioned the potential
49:57
cheese that's definitely something that South as A recent
50:00
North Carolina transplant. I see it everywhere.
50:02
I do not care for it so I'm not on that bandwagon at all.
50:06
Have you lived in Chicago area for, you know, 40 years or so?
50:10
You know, it's Pizza. It's hot dogs and Chicago style,
50:14
it's bratwurst Polish sausage, you know, kind of things like
50:18
that, you know, I'll leave North Carolina and I think of
50:21
barbecue, man, like, pulled for, haven't found a really good
50:24
barbecue place yet. We've had this conversation.
50:26
I'm a little bit disappointed with Barbecue that I've so far
50:31
experience. Generally speaking in North
50:33
Carolina there was at one spot outside of Charlotte.
50:36
I mentioned but I found better barbecue in Chicago, so I'm
50:40
going to throw the gauntlet down.
50:41
If you've got a recommendation for Asheville North, the North
50:45
Carolina area for barbecue. Hit me up because I am on the
50:48
hunt. Someone else will have to hit
50:50
you up on that. But I lived in the Charlotte
50:52
area for about eight years and in Mooresville, which is the
50:57
headquarters of NASCAR there is a barbecue place, there is just
51:03
fantastic. I would go there you know every
51:06
week every other week and pulled pork sandwiches were always my
51:11
order. Well it's so versatile, right?
51:13
You've got pork, you got beef, you've got chicken.
51:15
I mean you could eat barbecue every day the week and I have
51:18
the same you know? The same dish.
51:20
That's right. That's right.
51:21
And coleslaw. Do you like coleslaw?
51:23
Nope, my wife, does I hate it? So in North Carolina they have
51:28
like those yellow cold. Slaw.
51:30
I think they put mustard and I think maybe it's egg yolks.
51:34
That doesn't make it better. That makes it worse.
51:36
It makes a really much better. It's wonderful.
51:39
And they put her in a 2-0. See now it's just getting stupid
51:43
and crazy. Igor, do you have any thoughts
51:46
on barbecue? Actually my brother is doing
51:51
great barbecue so if you'll visit so bakiyev and a, so just
51:56
give me a call and we can have a good barbecue together.
51:59
Alright, now we're going to take, take the podcast on the
52:02
road like that would be very cool.
52:04
All right, we're gonna go ahead and wrap it up for this week
52:07
Igor. Thank you so much for spending
52:08
time with us. Really appreciate you taking
52:10
time out of the day. Jim for yourself as well.
52:13
Always appreciate it. We always have good
52:14
conversations. You can visit us the show.
52:18
Self online. Where idac podcast.com?
52:21
We're on Twitter at IDC podcast. I'll have some links in the show
52:25
notes as well so that people can check out and connect with Igor
52:28
on LinkedIn. You check out of all the M which
52:30
is e vo L ve you m.com. So you can learn more about what
52:35
they're doing you know, in the open source World specially with
52:38
the midpoint product of the IGA side of things.
52:40
And I forgot to mention we are also on Macedon at idac podcast
52:44
at infosec that exchange and hopefully we'll have Some
52:48
familiar faces friendly faces at the Gartner Summit here in a
52:52
week or so. And I don't forget to hit that
52:54
like And subscribe button and we'll go and leave it there and
52:57
talk with everyone in the next one.
53:01
You've been listening to Identity at the center.
53:04
We hope you've enjoyed the show, make sure to like rate and
53:08
review and we'll be back soon, but in the meantime, hit the
53:12
website at identity at the center.com and find us on
53:16
Twitter at ID. GAC podcast, see you next time
53:22
on identity at the center