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350: Alternative School Options, with Dawn Fleming-Kendall · Beautifully Complex

0:01
Speaker 1: You hear from teachers, their herror is in it, you know,
0:04
Speaker 1: most of them, Like I'm working within the system that
0:07
Speaker 1: I have the bubble that surrounds me right, and so
0:11
Speaker 1: you have to give that grace and space to that
0:13
Speaker 1: to a point. But then I also say that a
0:16
Speaker 1: lot of the strategies we're trying to bring to the table,
0:20
Speaker 1: or that we're trying to help implement, they help not
0:23
Speaker 1: just our kiddle, but they help all kids.
0:26
Speaker 2: Welcome to Beautifully Complex, where we unpack what it really
0:29
Speaker 2: means to parent neurodivergent kids with dignity and clarity. I'm
0:34
Speaker 2: Penny Williams, and I know firsthand how tough and transformative
0:38
Speaker 2: this journey can be. Let's dive in and discover how
0:41
Speaker 2: to raise regulated, resilient, beautifully complex kids together. Oh and
0:46
Speaker 2: if you want more support, join our free community at
0:50
Speaker 2: hub dot beautifully complex dot life. Welcome back to Beautifully
0:58
Speaker 2: Complex everyone. I am so thankful that you're here and
1:02
Speaker 2: you're listening today, and you're on this journey to try
1:05
Speaker 2: to help your neurodiversent kid or students to live their
1:09
Speaker 2: best life. I have with me Don Fleming Kendall, who
1:14
Speaker 2: is an educational advocate and we're going to talk about
1:19
Speaker 2: alternative options for school. If school isn't working for your kid,
1:24
Speaker 2: what are your options, both in the realm of like
1:28
Speaker 2: plicement and what school looks like, but also what you
1:32
Speaker 2: can do within the school placement as well. So I'm
1:36
Speaker 2: really excited to just give a lot of options for
1:40
Speaker 2: parents who need options and don't always know what's out there. Don,
1:44
Speaker 2: will you start by letting everybody know who you are
1:46
Speaker 2: and what you do.
1:48
Speaker 3: Sure?
1:48
Speaker 1: So, Kenny, thank you again for having me here with
1:51
Speaker 1: you today with your listeners. I really appreciate your time
1:54
Speaker 1: and theirs. So I'm Don and mom to five kids,
1:58
Speaker 1: many of which are neural diverse. I was a foster parent,
2:02
Speaker 1: and then my professional side, I spent years as a
2:06
Speaker 1: special educator. Then I grew into a pupils services director.
2:12
Speaker 1: I've then supported charter schools starting and now I spend
2:17
Speaker 1: a lot of my time doing advocacy work, parent coaching and.
2:21
Speaker 3: Things like that. So glad to be here, so needed,
2:25
Speaker 3: so needed.
2:26
Speaker 2: I'm thankful for you. So if a parent comes to
2:29
Speaker 2: you and they say school isn't working for my kid,
2:32
Speaker 2: where do you start? Where does your mind go? What
2:34
Speaker 2: questions do you ask yeah.
2:36
Speaker 1: So like that's most of the parents that come to me,
2:40
Speaker 1: like saying, it just isn't working, This isn't happening, right.
2:43
Speaker 1: I thought that I would send my kid to school,
2:45
Speaker 1: they'd get on the yellow bus and they'd go down
2:47
Speaker 1: the road and life would be good. Right. And then
2:49
Speaker 1: you add in the neurodiversity piece and the services that
2:53
Speaker 1: vary all over the country depending on where you are,
2:56
Speaker 1: and the quality of services stuff like that. So we
2:58
Speaker 1: start with where is success happening? Right?
3:02
Speaker 3: Where are you seeing success with your child?
3:05
Speaker 1: Maybe they're having success in they're on core classes, right,
3:10
Speaker 1: like they love stem, they love science, they love those
3:12
Speaker 1: kinds of things. Maybe they're doing well with their therapies,
3:16
Speaker 1: you know, they're related services.
3:18
Speaker 3: Maybe none of it's working.
3:20
Speaker 1: Maybe the chairs are being thrown, the dusks are being thrown,
3:23
Speaker 1: all of those good things, right, that happen when when
3:26
Speaker 1: a kiddo is not doing well in a particular placement.
3:30
Speaker 1: So I think we always start with what's positive, especially
3:33
Speaker 1: when you're trying to interact with the school district.
3:35
Speaker 3: Collaboration is key.
3:37
Speaker 1: I always say life of the times parents are extremely
3:40
Speaker 1: upset right when they reach out to me, they're very upset,
3:43
Speaker 1: they feel like nobody's doing their job, nobody's listening, et cetera.
3:48
Speaker 1: Ninety nine percent of the time, most schools are trying
3:51
Speaker 1: to do their best, do a great job, really kind
3:54
Speaker 1: of lean into you as the parent. Sometimes it's hard
3:58
Speaker 1: to see that, right, But I always say, like, when
4:00
Speaker 1: we go into any meeting or talks with the school,
4:03
Speaker 1: we have to think positively, right, that we can work
4:08
Speaker 1: together to come to an agreement or go down a
4:11
Speaker 1: path where we're both supportive of each other.
4:14
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm. It's so important to remember that educators do
4:18
Speaker 2: not have to learn about learning disabilities, about ADHD, about autism,
4:22
Speaker 2: about Nerdi versions, anxiety, none of it. They don't have
4:27
Speaker 2: to learn anything about that to become an educator. And
4:30
Speaker 2: so the intention is there to do great by the students.
4:36
Speaker 2: I think a lot of times the problem is, or
4:39
Speaker 2: one of the main problems, is that they just don't
4:42
Speaker 2: know what that looks like.
4:44
Speaker 1: They don't Yeah, they don't know one like the teacher training,
4:49
Speaker 1: it is what it is, right mm hmmm. It's getting
4:51
Speaker 1: watered down even more as we go. And then the
4:55
Speaker 1: nuances of each particular kid, right, you know, So for example,
4:59
Speaker 1: my children, well they may have autism or ADHD. They
5:02
Speaker 1: also have exposure from opioids. That really throws a wack
5:08
Speaker 1: it to the ball cart.
5:09
Speaker 3: Now we're thinking.
5:11
Speaker 1: About all that. You're like autism butt or this butt,
5:13
Speaker 1: and so many kids are like that, Well, I'm autistic
5:16
Speaker 1: butt orr, I have a speech problem.
5:17
Speaker 3: Butt.
5:18
Speaker 1: And learning all those nuances, even for those of us
5:20
Speaker 1: that have been in the field all a really long time,
5:23
Speaker 1: it's hard, right, It's always changing, and the science is
5:26
Speaker 1: always evolving, which is also a positive.
5:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, and bringing that science in you know, now we're
5:31
Speaker 2: learning about the nervous system and how we need to
5:34
Speaker 2: be regulated to be available to learn and all of
5:37
Speaker 2: these things. And so we're learning a lot more, at
5:40
Speaker 2: least those of us who have to because maybe we
5:42
Speaker 2: have that kid at home.
5:44
Speaker 3: Right.
5:44
Speaker 2: But now it's about how do we integrate that. How
5:47
Speaker 2: do we take this new stuff that we're learning and
5:50
Speaker 2: all this knowledge that we have about what neurodivergent kids
5:52
Speaker 2: need and try to make it work within a system
5:57
Speaker 2: that is much more rigid and about teaching the masses
6:02
Speaker 2: rather than teaching individuals.
6:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you hear you know from teachers. You know
6:09
Speaker 1: their heart is in it. You know most of them.
6:12
Speaker 1: They are like, I'm working within the system that I have,
6:16
Speaker 1: the bubble that surrounds me, right, yeah, and so you
6:19
Speaker 1: have to give that grace and space to that to
6:22
Speaker 1: a point. But then I also say that a lot
6:25
Speaker 1: of the strategies we're trying to bring to the table
6:29
Speaker 1: or that we're trying to help implement, they help not
6:32
Speaker 1: just our kiddo, but they help all kiddos. I always say,
6:35
Speaker 1: these strategies help the smartest, best kid learning it faster.
6:40
Speaker 3: So why not use it to.
6:41
Speaker 1: Everyone's advantage, not just the child with neurodiversity? Right, Because again,
6:45
Speaker 1: when you're talking about like strategies, a lot of it
6:48
Speaker 1: is brain based, a lot of it is science based.
6:50
Speaker 1: So you're talking about how does our brain work best? Well,
6:53
Speaker 1: here's the strategies, right, Our kids need it. Other kids
6:57
Speaker 1: can truly benefit from those pieces absolutely, yeah.
7:02
Speaker 3: Yeah.
7:02
Speaker 2: So much of what we ask for, as far as
7:05
Speaker 2: accommodations or adaptations, modifications are things that would be great
7:11
Speaker 2: for all of the students. We're not asking you to
7:14
Speaker 2: specifically do it just for my kid. No, do it
7:17
Speaker 2: for everyone, you know, do it for everyone.
7:19
Speaker 1: Don't leave it in a silo, because when you think
7:22
Speaker 1: of us as adults, Right, how many times do we
7:24
Speaker 1: naturally accommodate for our own, you know, weaknesses, maybe like
7:28
Speaker 1: I'm a super nope taking person, right, I have these
7:32
Speaker 1: all over the place, or I forget and so I
7:35
Speaker 1: get We just need to show up. Those strategies make
7:39
Speaker 1: everybody shine, not just our particular group of people.
7:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, how do we know if it's more about
7:48
Speaker 2: getting what we need in the school that our kid
7:51
Speaker 2: is already in versus are really fundamentally poor fit and
7:55
Speaker 2: needing to make some sort of change with maybe an
8:00
Speaker 2: alternative school.
8:02
Speaker 1: Right? So, when I would work in public schools at
8:05
Speaker 1: that decision level, safety was usually our number one guiding principle, Right,
8:11
Speaker 1: is the students safe? Are they safe here during the day?
8:14
Speaker 1: And the other one was can we get them here right?
8:17
Speaker 1: Because a lot of times that's a huge barrier. Sometimes
8:21
Speaker 1: when we would get them there, they'd be okay for
8:23
Speaker 1: the day, but getting them to the location right was
8:27
Speaker 1: super difficult. So obviously, like that's not the environment that
8:31
Speaker 1: they're prepared to be in, right, because they were being
8:34
Speaker 1: unsafe generally in the home environment before getting to us,
8:37
Speaker 1: or if they're unsafe in the school, right, if they're
8:41
Speaker 1: just generally not able to participate in the day to
8:45
Speaker 1: day activities, and it could be unsafe with themselves, it
8:48
Speaker 1: could be unsafe for others. That was usually like the
8:52
Speaker 1: big ticket red flag that this isn't a successful place
8:57
Speaker 1: or that we need to manipulate. Right, I always saying
9:00
Speaker 1: we try a few things before you know, throw the
9:03
Speaker 1: baby out with the bathwater. You can reduce your school day, right,
9:07
Speaker 1: that's one huge piece. You can also do hybrid options, right.
9:12
Speaker 1: You can look at in person instruction plus additional online
9:15
Speaker 1: instruction at home or maybe out in the community later
9:18
Speaker 1: on with a tutor, maybe having them come in for
9:21
Speaker 1: their therapies and only staying you know, for a core
9:24
Speaker 1: instructional piece and then doing their therapies you know, off
9:28
Speaker 1: site at a different time. So a lot of times
9:32
Speaker 1: parents don't think like, well, if this place doesn't work,
9:35
Speaker 1: then we have to pick a new place. Right when
9:38
Speaker 1: you can kind of mold the current situation to be
9:42
Speaker 1: different and then work towards you know, potentially as you
9:46
Speaker 1: built those skills with that child coming back to a
9:48
Speaker 1: full time placement within the school setting. So yeah, safety
9:52
Speaker 1: is usually our number one red flag that we need
9:57
Speaker 1: to make some either serious changes in our facility or
10:01
Speaker 1: look at other places.
10:04
Speaker 2: And that safety too isn't just physical safety or safety
10:07
Speaker 2: and social interaction relationships. It's also psychological safety and emotional safety.
10:13
Speaker 2: Like my kid went to high school and in ninth
10:16
Speaker 2: grade and everything just went to hell because he did
10:21
Speaker 2: not feel safe at all. He was hyper vigilant every
10:25
Speaker 2: moment that he was there. And we didn't end up
10:28
Speaker 2: going hybrid because of that, because he couldn't stay in
10:32
Speaker 2: survival mode for seven hours a day, and he wasn't
10:36
Speaker 2: available to learn, like his butt would be in the
10:39
Speaker 2: chair sometimes, or he'd be in the bathroom texting me
10:42
Speaker 2: to get him, and so about half the time, you know,
10:46
Speaker 2: his butt would be in the chair, but he still
10:47
Speaker 2: wasn't learning anything. He was still so dysregulated. And I
10:52
Speaker 2: never thought they would say yes. For years they'd been
10:55
Speaker 2: telling me no about everything I'd ever asked for, just
10:57
Speaker 2: about and I just have to have someone who got it,
11:02
Speaker 2: someone whose office he was spending a lot of time
11:05
Speaker 2: in when he needed a break, who said yes, yes,
11:09
Speaker 2: we can do some in person and some online. And
11:13
Speaker 2: you know they had a rule against kids freshmen and
11:16
Speaker 2: sophomore kids doing online classes. Yeah, but when you ask
11:20
Speaker 2: sometimes rules are flexible in certain situations. And if I'd
11:25
Speaker 2: never asked, like, I don't know where we would have been,
11:29
Speaker 2: you know, eventually, but just asking sometimes is that first step,
11:34
Speaker 2: like what can we do that is way outside of
11:37
Speaker 2: the box of what everyone's thinking about. And there are
11:40
Speaker 2: also schools that offer hybrid choices now to you right
11:44
Speaker 2: in some areas.
11:46
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, so I mean, like you said, having that
11:50
Speaker 1: person that can be creative right with solutions, I think
11:53
Speaker 1: is huge sometimes. Again as an advocate, that's where I
11:56
Speaker 1: come in a lot is not to hammer down on people.
12:00
Speaker 1: It's to be creative. Like, here is the wide variety
12:03
Speaker 1: of things I have seen. Let's see if we can
12:07
Speaker 1: pick a few of them right that we know will
12:09
Speaker 1: be successful with that student, and that work for you,
12:12
Speaker 1: work for the parent. There are so many options now
12:16
Speaker 1: for kids, especially with the growth of a lot of
12:20
Speaker 1: states now offer some type of voucher program or a
12:24
Speaker 1: flexible spending educational account. It kind of varies by state,
12:28
Speaker 1: but I think what we're seeing is one parent voice
12:32
Speaker 1: and choice is huge, right, and it's growing stronger every
12:35
Speaker 1: single day. Hybrid is one of the options. That's a
12:39
Speaker 1: great option. There's online options, there's even online with a
12:43
Speaker 1: teacher that might be in person still in that school building, right,
12:46
Speaker 1: like you said, in particularly with your son, if he
12:49
Speaker 1: connected with a particular staff member. I know I had
12:52
Speaker 1: higher teachers that would then work with kids in the
12:55
Speaker 1: evening virtually they had that strong connection and we're able
13:00
Speaker 1: to continue, right, fostering that kind of positive academic journey
13:05
Speaker 1: with that child, right. Yeah, Yeah, so hybrid is huge.
13:10
Speaker 1: And then we're seeing like the explosion to a variety
13:13
Speaker 1: of charter schools right anywhere from gifted to autism to
13:19
Speaker 1: behavior base to more of the hands on learning. I know,
13:24
Speaker 1: the one I was part of was a very big
13:26
Speaker 1: on hands on learning. One of the ones I follow
13:29
Speaker 1: that I love is Alpha School. Have you seen that
13:31
Speaker 1: one down in Texas? That one's amazing. They are doing
13:36
Speaker 1: some great work. They do two hours of academics and
13:39
Speaker 1: the rest of the day is hands on learning. Sounds amazing, Yeah,
13:44
Speaker 1: which is really a great model, right for a lot
13:47
Speaker 1: of schools to even try and follow. So yeah, so
13:51
Speaker 1: many of our kids do so much better with movement
13:54
Speaker 1: and hands on learning requires getting up and moving around
13:57
Speaker 1: and doing things right. And so yeah, there's so many options,
14:01
Speaker 1: I think, And what else is there that maybe parents
14:05
Speaker 1: aren't thinking about that they don't know it exists. Is
14:09
Speaker 1: there anything else that you might offer as an alternative? Yeah,
14:16
Speaker 1: I mean homeschool is also something that's growing, and a
14:19
Speaker 1: lot of times parents are terrified when they hear the
14:22
Speaker 1: word homeschool because they think I can never do that
14:25
Speaker 1: or I can't handle that. And there are so many
14:27
Speaker 1: ways now to also support that, right with the hybrid option,
14:31
Speaker 1: that's one. There are so many co ops, and a
14:34
Speaker 1: co op is generally organized around a couple days a
14:37
Speaker 1: month or a couple days a week. Parents can drop
14:40
Speaker 1: their children off a lot of times the curriculum continues
14:43
Speaker 1: and they are given assignments at home. There's so many
14:47
Speaker 1: ways to do that. And I always joke with parents,
14:50
Speaker 1: especially if they're in a very tough predicament. Right, like
14:53
Speaker 1: my son had very extreme school burnout. There really wasn't
14:57
Speaker 1: a way to manipulate the situation to make him successful
15:01
Speaker 1: in attending an all days setting. So we are I'm
15:05
Speaker 1: going to call it quasi homeschooling with a tutor three
15:08
Speaker 1: days a week, right, three mornings a week, And then
15:11
Speaker 1: I support the other I call it twenty percent of
15:14
Speaker 1: his education and therapies and things like that. But I
15:18
Speaker 1: always joke people are like, I can't homeschool. I was, like,
15:20
Speaker 1: you have a diploma, right, and like you have been
15:23
Speaker 1: through the same process, right, you can do this. And
15:28
Speaker 1: we all, I think as millennials, joke that we've all
15:30
Speaker 1: been to YouTube academy now, right, or university as we
15:35
Speaker 1: call it. If there's a problem, a lot of times
15:37
Speaker 1: you can find the answer. So you're not stuck, right,
15:42
Speaker 1: You're not stuck. So I think homeschooling, whether you're looking
15:46
Speaker 1: at a pod right where you're joining a group of
15:49
Speaker 1: people on a regular basis, or a co op to
15:52
Speaker 1: support yourself, or even just going rogue and going all
15:55
Speaker 1: on your own. That's another huge piece. We can also
15:59
Speaker 1: talk up in more depth. I don't know, Penny, if
16:01
Speaker 1: you want to talk about, you know, the kind of
16:03
Speaker 1: explosion of ABA schools and autism type schools as well
16:07
Speaker 1: that parents are looking at.
16:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think talking about all the options because
16:12
Speaker 2: somebody won't be listening who doesn't know what to do,
16:16
Speaker 2: and one of these options might spark at least an
16:19
Speaker 2: avenue to consider. And there's two like bridges, I know
16:24
Speaker 2: bridges in California, for twice exceptionality private school obviously, but
16:32
Speaker 2: there are lots of schools that are actually structured for
16:37
Speaker 2: kids who have learning differences.
16:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, there are so many that are structured, and I
16:42
Speaker 1: think that it's an interesting kind of diversion. So as
16:44
Speaker 1: a parent, right, if you live in a state where
16:47
Speaker 1: you have those scholarship, you know, funding opportunities, it makes
16:52
Speaker 1: it a little bit easier to kind of split and
16:55
Speaker 1: say I'm just going to try that because there is
16:57
Speaker 1: now funding available, like in that voice, and choice of
17:00
Speaker 1: parents is really leading the way. If you are working
17:04
Speaker 1: with your school district, still, I think that's the time
17:07
Speaker 1: that you really have to dig deep and become collaborative, right, Yes,
17:12
Speaker 1: you all need to work together to show one that
17:15
Speaker 1: you are trying as many options as you can in
17:18
Speaker 1: the building, reviewing on a regular basis. And when I
17:22
Speaker 1: say regular basis, like I was meeting with my kids
17:25
Speaker 1: team often two to three times a month, right, like,
17:29
Speaker 1: on a very regular basis, especially when you have a
17:33
Speaker 1: kid in crisis mode. I always say like that there
17:36
Speaker 1: can't be enough times where you're meeting because they flip
17:40
Speaker 1: a table one day, they go after a staff, another day,
17:43
Speaker 1: they're shut down, et cetera. They can't, you can't get
17:47
Speaker 1: them to school that day. I also feel at that point, well,
17:51
Speaker 1: they are diligently taking data on your child. I also
17:55
Speaker 1: feel it's the parent's kind of responsibility. I always say,
17:59
Speaker 1: take data on your district, right, because they're coming to
18:03
Speaker 1: the table flooding you with numbers. Right, you leave thinking
18:06
Speaker 1: that you need to almost be a math statistician sometimes right, like,
18:11
Speaker 1: it can be very especially when you add in that
18:14
Speaker 1: emotional piece. It's so hard. It's so hard as a
18:18
Speaker 1: parent to sit there to rationally talk about four out
18:22
Speaker 1: of five times he flipped the table or she flipped
18:24
Speaker 1: the table, right, And when you hear that, it's emotional,
18:28
Speaker 1: your heart breaks. Right that you're a child is you know,
18:32
Speaker 1: triggered to that level of kind of fight or flight. Right,
18:36
Speaker 1: but then taking data on your district saying, you know,
18:39
Speaker 1: are they following through with say we're going to try
18:41
Speaker 1: a hybrid strategy. How fast did it get into place?
18:46
Speaker 1: Was it consistently offered? And then how long was your student?
18:51
Speaker 1: You know, your child engaged in the session. The teacher
18:55
Speaker 1: could say, well they were there for an hour, it's great,
18:58
Speaker 1: but if in an hour or they did maybe one
19:02
Speaker 1: problem because your child was not participating or took maybe
19:08
Speaker 1: you on the back end, becoming a surfday solay, you know,
19:12
Speaker 1: orchestrator in order to keep them on that session. I
19:17
Speaker 1: think those are all important pieces that we have to
19:20
Speaker 1: keep track of. It's exhausting too, because you're also in
19:24
Speaker 1: the middle of this crisis with your child and you're like,
19:27
Speaker 1: how am I supposed to keep track of all this?
19:30
Speaker 1: But I also find it to be almost grounding, right,
19:33
Speaker 1: Like I would call it my my journaling. Right at
19:37
Speaker 1: the end of the day, this is what has happened.
19:39
Speaker 1: This is what I put forth as their parent. These
19:42
Speaker 1: are the strategies I tried. This is the success I had.
19:47
Speaker 1: And sometimes I even just like a teacher. I'd run
19:51
Speaker 1: around with scotch tape on my legs and mark down
19:54
Speaker 1: like how many times he did it? How many times
19:56
Speaker 1: didn't he do it? All those kinds of things, till
19:58
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, I would just look
19:59
Speaker 1: and say, okay, objectively.
20:02
Speaker 3: And what was great is when something was working, you're like, okay,
20:05
Speaker 3: this is working. This is helping.
20:09
Speaker 1: Because a lot of times you're so engrossed in the
20:13
Speaker 1: day to day, right, you get kind of drowned a
20:16
Speaker 1: little bit in the kind of emotional support that you're
20:19
Speaker 1: trying to provide to your child and trying to not
20:22
Speaker 1: drain your soul at the same time, but really really
20:26
Speaker 1: working on finding those positive moments right to highlight for
20:30
Speaker 1: yourself as well. So, say, the district is providing these pieces,
20:34
Speaker 1: it's working.
20:35
Speaker 3: It's great.
20:36
Speaker 1: It isn't I've tried standing on my head ten times.
20:40
Speaker 1: It's still probably enough. Fact they tried standing on their
20:45
Speaker 1: head ten times, right, Like, I mean, will do site
20:47
Speaker 1: words in any way, shape or form we can, but
20:50
Speaker 1: getting it done in a good way.
21:05
Speaker 2: And as you were talking about like working with the school,
21:08
Speaker 2: it reminded me and I think this would be so
21:12
Speaker 2: valuable for parents to hear what this process is, like
21:15
Speaker 2: that sometimes the school district actually needs to pay for
21:20
Speaker 2: an alternative placement they do, Yeah, and what is that process?
21:25
Speaker 2: Like how do parents even start down that path?
21:28
Speaker 1: So and again this is where you have to come
21:31
Speaker 1: to the district, you know, saying I don't feel that
21:34
Speaker 1: this placement is appropriate. And when you say that, you
21:37
Speaker 1: have to also say and kind of it's so hard
21:40
Speaker 1: to take that emotional piece out of it, right, Like
21:43
Speaker 1: he's failing he's off. You know, she's awful. This is
21:47
Speaker 1: they're not eating, they're not sleeping, all of these things,
21:51
Speaker 1: coming to them and saying, you know, my child was
21:53
Speaker 1: not slept out of this last month, you know, twenty
21:57
Speaker 1: days right, most of.
21:58
Speaker 3: Them school days.
22:00
Speaker 1: So saying to them this is the reason why I
22:03
Speaker 1: also say when you come to those meetings, you have
22:05
Speaker 1: to come solution based, right, come with your data. But
22:10
Speaker 1: again you can try and be creative with what's occurring
22:13
Speaker 1: in the school. But if you're like, well, I would
22:15
Speaker 1: like to look at these other placements, have a list
22:18
Speaker 1: of potential placements in your area that you think might
22:22
Speaker 1: or if you don't know what those might be in
22:25
Speaker 1: your area, say I would like to find a placement
22:27
Speaker 1: that has you know, APA therapy, speech, Oh, you know
22:32
Speaker 1: the things that you're seeing as missing. These are the
22:36
Speaker 1: key pieces that I need to see in either an
22:39
Speaker 1: alternative placement or how we're going to reshape his current placement.
22:45
Speaker 1: So being really objective, I feel so again, as a parent,
22:50
Speaker 1: you're allowed to call an IEP meeting at any time.
22:53
Speaker 1: You could call one every week. That's something that is
22:55
Speaker 1: your right. So that would be the first step in
22:59
Speaker 1: that process. Coming with your data coming with solutions, right,
23:03
Speaker 1: I think are that biggest piece being in the mindset
23:08
Speaker 1: that if you're approaching a school district about it, then
23:10
Speaker 1: it may be a longer discussion, right for sure, because
23:15
Speaker 1: they also then have to provide data saying well, this
23:19
Speaker 1: child does deserve to be in an alternative placement, or no,
23:24
Speaker 1: we haven't exhausted all of our resources. There's that box
23:28
Speaker 1: in the IP, the LR box, the least restrictive environment,
23:32
Speaker 1: that little box. They have to make sure they have
23:35
Speaker 1: cleared that box of all their options.
23:38
Speaker 3: You know.
23:38
Speaker 1: So if your child's maybe in genet with some inclusion,
23:41
Speaker 1: maybe they would look towards all inclusion before then moving
23:45
Speaker 1: to an alternative setting, right, Yeah, so you kind of
23:49
Speaker 1: have to look and see where they stand on that
23:52
Speaker 1: continuum of services before moving all the way drastically towards
23:56
Speaker 1: an outside placement.
23:59
Speaker 2: They tend to want to go through the entire continuum too,
24:02
Speaker 2: they do. They want to I want to take a
24:04
Speaker 2: lot of time in every single piece and make totally
24:08
Speaker 2: sure that it's not working, they do before moving to
24:11
Speaker 2: something else. At least that was our experience. Yeah, And
24:15
Speaker 2: are there qualifications, like is there a list somewhere in
24:19
Speaker 2: idea or something.
24:21
Speaker 1: Now, No, there's not a magical list, and it kind
24:24
Speaker 1: of also, I feel like depends on what school district
24:27
Speaker 1: you're working with, right, Like, if you're in a rural
24:29
Speaker 1: school district that doesn't have a lot of resources, they're
24:33
Speaker 1: going to be quicker to outplace a child just because
24:36
Speaker 1: they don't have as many continuum pieces to go through, right.
24:40
Speaker 1: And then say you're in a bigger district, They've dow
24:42
Speaker 1: a lot more resources, a lot more available to them.
24:45
Speaker 1: Maybe you're in a more urban area in a city,
24:49
Speaker 1: they can then hire people in, bring stuff in. Really
24:53
Speaker 1: kind of again, go through that bringer oup services that's available.
24:57
Speaker 1: For example, I know I'm working with a family right now.
24:59
Speaker 1: They're in a very rural area and there isn't a
25:03
Speaker 1: whole lot of options left, right, and the school district
25:07
Speaker 1: is recognizing that very quickly that this child means you know, A,
25:12
Speaker 1: B and C.
25:13
Speaker 3: We're very quickly.
25:14
Speaker 1: Moving to an alternative placement versus a district that you
25:19
Speaker 1: know has a lot of things, Which is a good thing, right,
25:22
Speaker 1: if you have a lot of resources, that's wonderful. Yeah,
25:25
Speaker 1: But a lot of times that's more geographically based. A
25:28
Speaker 1: lot of people get mad they're like, well, my school
25:30
Speaker 1: district doesn't have this. Well, your child may be the
25:33
Speaker 1: only one that needs that particular range of services, and
25:38
Speaker 1: it's not feasible for a school district to have one
25:42
Speaker 1: child in an inclusion you know, all by themselves in
25:45
Speaker 1: a classroom with an aid with a behaviorist. Like, well,
25:49
Speaker 1: that's not fair to your kids. They don't want to
25:50
Speaker 1: be stuck in a room by themselves all day and
25:52
Speaker 1: two Like, financially, that also doesn't make sense for a
25:56
Speaker 1: school district. So yeah, you have to think about it
25:59
Speaker 1: both ways. I don't want my kid to be stuck
26:01
Speaker 1: in a rule of one or two children.
26:03
Speaker 2: So for sure, one last thing I want to make
26:06
Speaker 2: sure we talk about before we close, and that is
26:09
Speaker 2: how do parents what sort of process? What questions do
26:14
Speaker 2: they ask when they're considering an alternative school place matter,
26:19
Speaker 2: considering any school really, what things need to be on
26:23
Speaker 2: their radar? What steps do they maybe need to take
26:27
Speaker 2: to make sure that they are making a really informed
26:30
Speaker 2: decision that that school is going to fit as much
26:36
Speaker 2: as they can know before they actually get into it,
26:39
Speaker 2: because I know from experience you can't know it all
26:42
Speaker 2: before you get into it. But what can you do
26:44
Speaker 2: to be the most.
26:45
Speaker 3: Prepared you can.
26:47
Speaker 1: And a lot of times again because a lot of
26:49
Speaker 1: those outside placements are more financially based, right, they are
26:53
Speaker 1: very good at that sales piece, right, they are wonderful.
26:57
Speaker 3: They are where.
26:59
Speaker 1: Public school is like, we're here, you live here, come here, right,
27:04
Speaker 1: So it's a very different perspective. I always cautioned families
27:10
Speaker 1: when they would come barreling in, I need an outside placement.
27:14
Speaker 1: A lot of times I would have parents tour right
27:17
Speaker 1: in person. I want you to get in there and
27:21
Speaker 1: see what it's like. Again, when the majority of outplacements
27:26
Speaker 1: the biggest concern is safety, then you're in a classroom
27:30
Speaker 1: with all children that have had as a large concern
27:33
Speaker 1: for some level of safety.
27:35
Speaker 3: Right.
27:36
Speaker 1: And while there are so many positive to some outside placements,
27:39
Speaker 1: and again I place my child and two outside placements,
27:42
Speaker 1: at this point you have to weigh those balances, right,
27:45
Speaker 1: because your child may be exposed to some behaviors that
27:49
Speaker 1: they have not seen or done or thought of, but
27:52
Speaker 1: now they can, right because they see it every day.
27:55
Speaker 1: But is that worth it for the therapies, the different environment,
28:01
Speaker 1: the different levels of support for your child. So I
28:06
Speaker 1: am a huge advocate of walk through any particular placement
28:10
Speaker 1: that you are considering, you want to see it in
28:14
Speaker 1: the day in action with students, Yes, right, for sure.
28:19
Speaker 1: Just doing a little webinar, they're going to tell you, well,
28:22
Speaker 1: we have staff for behaviors, or we remove this child,
28:26
Speaker 1: or we have a huge reinforcement system. Well, sometimes that
28:31
Speaker 1: reinforcement system looks like a small basket of items in
28:34
Speaker 1: a particular room. And they made it sound like this
28:37
Speaker 1: great like Walmar right of reinforcements, and you're like, that's
28:41
Speaker 1: not what.
28:42
Speaker 3: I thought it was.
28:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I always say, like, make sure that one
28:47
Speaker 1: the therapists are what you want. I always ask about
28:50
Speaker 1: turnover to to me, this particular group of kiddos struggles
28:56
Speaker 1: so much right with staff consistency. Every place experience is turnover.
29:02
Speaker 1: But what is your turnover like right, and I get
29:06
Speaker 1: it as America, we are experiencing a ton of turnover everywhere.
29:10
Speaker 1: It's a huge problem. But what is your particular facility
29:14
Speaker 1: Like if the teacher I meet today is still going
29:16
Speaker 1: to potentially be the teacher that my child will have
29:19
Speaker 1: when we have our goodbye party in May, you know,
29:23
Speaker 1: are you able to retain staff on a long term basis?
29:26
Speaker 1: The therapies, are they there, What does it look like
29:29
Speaker 1: in person? What do your safety plans, your emergency plan,
29:33
Speaker 1: all those things, what do they look like? And even
29:37
Speaker 1: to school safety, a lot of science public schools do
29:41
Speaker 1: a great job with school safety, and with charter schools,
29:45
Speaker 1: I feel like it's a little bit all over the place.
29:48
Speaker 1: So school safety to me is really huge because that's
29:51
Speaker 1: a lifelong skill. Everybody kind of houses it in school safety,
29:56
Speaker 1: but you know, overall safety for when you're out in
29:58
Speaker 1: the community and stuff like that, that definitely needs to
30:01
Speaker 1: be addressed as well. Academics, I would say, is the
30:05
Speaker 1: other big piece. A lot of times, you know, your
30:08
Speaker 1: school district has tons of academics, They have committees that
30:12
Speaker 1: need about it, all of those things to kind of
30:15
Speaker 1: stay on track. They have a curriculum director, they have
30:17
Speaker 1: a superintendent, right they're going to trainings. What does your
30:22
Speaker 1: charter school or alternative placement? What does their curriculum look like?
30:26
Speaker 1: How do they build it, how do they monitor it,
30:28
Speaker 1: how do they train new people, and how are they
30:31
Speaker 1: tracking your kids progress? With that piece as well, it's
30:36
Speaker 1: really huge because a lot of times, a lot of
30:39
Speaker 1: people think, well, curriculum's curriculum well, if your child is
30:42
Speaker 1: doing this biology in your school and they switch in
30:46
Speaker 1: a here, sometimes they're not even teaching it over there, right, Yeah,
30:51
Speaker 1: and you need to know, like, especially an older child,
30:54
Speaker 1: are they going to lose credit? That's huge, It's a
30:58
Speaker 1: huge piece.
30:59
Speaker 3: That's a huge And.
31:00
Speaker 2: Your kids feelings about it too, I think are always important,
31:03
Speaker 2: especially when we're talking about teens. Yes, like if they
31:06
Speaker 2: don't have any buy in and changing schools, changing the
31:08
Speaker 2: school isn't going to make anything better.
31:10
Speaker 1: It's not going to change, yeah, only going to make
31:12
Speaker 1: it worse, Like you know, I.
31:15
Speaker 3: Mean, buy in is huge.
31:16
Speaker 1: I mean even with a little kid, because you're talking
31:19
Speaker 1: if you're looking at an outside placement for a small child,
31:21
Speaker 1: that small child has a lot of big feelings usually yeah,
31:24
Speaker 1: and they're buy in is huge. So you walking through
31:27
Speaker 1: making sure you're comfortable with it is one you walking
31:30
Speaker 1: through with your child because one I mean I get
31:33
Speaker 1: that at the end of the day, we're all advocating
31:36
Speaker 1: for better situations for your child academically, physically, emotionally, But
31:41
Speaker 1: switching schools is sometimes really hard, right, Like maybe they
31:47
Speaker 1: do have they usually have a friend or a teacher
31:49
Speaker 1: or somebody that's connecting with them, right, It's usually not
31:52
Speaker 1: like they're all out to get them. There's usually those
31:56
Speaker 1: connections and ripping those off completely is so hard. And
32:02
Speaker 1: again that's where I think, like the district making that
32:05
Speaker 1: transition plan is really you know huge. I would you know,
32:09
Speaker 1: if I had kids who I knew were maybe going
32:12
Speaker 1: out for six months to a year, those particular staff,
32:15
Speaker 1: I would give them, you know, PD days where they
32:17
Speaker 1: could go back out into the community see those kids,
32:21
Speaker 1: connect with them, talk to them so they wouldn't feel
32:25
Speaker 1: like they had been shipped off the island basically abandoned.
32:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, you don't want that. You don't want that.
32:32
Speaker 1: Or like I said with the hybrid piece, if you
32:35
Speaker 1: have those particular staff that is connected to that child,
32:39
Speaker 1: ninety nine point nine percent of the time, staff will
32:42
Speaker 1: work with the district and what they can do to
32:44
Speaker 1: keep that connection going with the child because they're there. Again,
32:50
Speaker 1: most teachers are there for the kids. They really really
32:52
Speaker 1: are for sure.
32:54
Speaker 2: And the only thing I would add to that from
32:55
Speaker 2: personal experience is like, if you're if you're considering a school,
33:00
Speaker 2: like a private school, especially, make sure you know their philosophies,
33:04
Speaker 2: make sure you read their handbook first.
33:06
Speaker 3: Make sure, Like we switched.
33:08
Speaker 2: To a private school because it was hands on and
33:10
Speaker 2: small and we really couldn't swing it, but we were
33:13
Speaker 2: going to figure it out anyway. And I gave them
33:18
Speaker 2: the entire folder IEPs, all assessments, diagnose everything. It was
33:24
Speaker 2: like this thick. I wanted to be sure right that
33:28
Speaker 2: this was going to be something that they were open to.
33:32
Speaker 2: And in six weeks they told us to leave because
33:36
Speaker 2: they actually had had a policy that they did not
33:38
Speaker 2: serve any students with learning differences, but their enrollment was down,
33:43
Speaker 2: so they made an exception and then they crushed my kid.
33:47
Speaker 2: So like I thought I was doing everything, and yet
33:51
Speaker 2: still there was something missing. So I'm always like, how
33:55
Speaker 2: every time I get this question, like, you need to
33:57
Speaker 2: go there. You need to ask questions, you need to
33:58
Speaker 2: share information, but you need to get your hands on
34:02
Speaker 2: every single thing you can possibly get your hands on
34:04
Speaker 2: that would inform you about their beliefs and the culture
34:07
Speaker 2: and you know all of that because it matters too.
34:10
Speaker 2: So if it's not like a placement that the school's
34:13
Speaker 2: helping you with, but to a behavior school or something
34:15
Speaker 2: like that, and you're just looking at it on your own,
34:19
Speaker 2: you really really have to dig in and be sure.
34:22
Speaker 1: I would even say even if it's district placement, yeah,
34:26
Speaker 1: I would also encourage that, just because I've had experiences
34:30
Speaker 1: where children had very violent occurrences even in outplacements and
34:36
Speaker 1: still faced criminal charges. You know, those types of things.
34:39
Speaker 1: A lot of times people say, well they went to
34:41
Speaker 1: an outplacement, they can't do anything. They're special needs kids
34:43
Speaker 1: or special teachers. Those things can follow whether you're an outplacement, charter,
34:50
Speaker 1: et cetera. Charters generally have a much lower tolerance right
34:54
Speaker 1: for things, even if they are focused on autism or
34:59
Speaker 1: behavior or things like that, they can sometimes have a
35:02
Speaker 1: very low tolerance. Understanding what their tolerance is is huge.
35:06
Speaker 1: But also if it's disreplacement, being prepared right, like say, well,
35:12
Speaker 1: my child is attacking people on a regular basis, what.
35:15
Speaker 3: Do you do right? Do you call me? Do you
35:17
Speaker 3: send them home? Do you reflect? Do they stay here?
35:21
Speaker 1: No matter what those types of things, when do you
35:26
Speaker 1: bring in you know, any type of police involvement stuff
35:30
Speaker 1: like that, And everybody's like, well, my Chohana's autism, they're
35:32
Speaker 1: not they're not going to get arrested, they're not gonnasm.
35:35
Speaker 1: It happens, It still happens. It still happens, and it's
35:40
Speaker 1: it's so it's so hard, it's so hard.
35:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well, Don, we could talk about this for
35:47
Speaker 2: many more days. I'm sure not even hours, but days
35:49
Speaker 2: and days. There's so much to think about, you know,
35:52
Speaker 2: and there's so much struggle there is with our population,
35:57
Speaker 2: our kids and school. So we will have a part
36:01
Speaker 2: two again in the future soon. Yeah too, share some
36:05
Speaker 2: more of this, but I really appreciate it. Tell everybody
36:08
Speaker 2: where they can go online to find you and your
36:12
Speaker 2: advocacy work and maybe connect with you and learn more
36:15
Speaker 2: about working with you.
36:16
Speaker 1: Sure, So I have just on Facebook it's Don flem
36:19
Speaker 1: and Kendall and the same thing with Instagram. We have
36:23
Speaker 1: a growing I just started a school for education Advocacy
36:27
Speaker 1: and Coaching and that's literally what it's called, Education Advocacy
36:31
Speaker 1: and Coaching. But really you can just reach out via
36:35
Speaker 1: email and I can hopefully direct you into the right
36:38
Speaker 1: kind of slot, just because some parents are looking for
36:41
Speaker 1: more advocacy supports and are looking for homeschool so are
36:44
Speaker 1: looking for that parent coach piece. But yeah, I am
36:48
Speaker 1: really happy to talk to any family that is in
36:51
Speaker 1: need of support.
36:53
Speaker 2: Awesome. I will link all that up to you in
36:55
Speaker 2: the show notes okay, which are at PARENTINGADHD and Autism
36:58
Speaker 2: dot com. So everybody will have it easily accessible if
37:02
Speaker 2: they're in front of a computer or a device as well.
37:06
Speaker 2: Thank you again for giving us, Like that was more
37:11
Speaker 2: information than I ever knew all thirteen years of my
37:13
Speaker 2: kids schooling. Honestly, Like, you know, it's not shared, it's
37:18
Speaker 2: not readily available, and so I know that this is
37:22
Speaker 2: really going to change some things for a lot of
37:25
Speaker 2: families who are listening. And that's why we do what
37:28
Speaker 2: we do. So it's so thankful for you, and it's
37:31
Speaker 2: so hard.
37:31
Speaker 1: I know a lot of families come into a meeting
37:33
Speaker 1: and you know, people are like, well, don't you know,
37:35
Speaker 1: don't you know what you want? And I'm like, this
37:37
Speaker 1: person is a master's degree. I have three master's degrees,
37:41
Speaker 1: and like I'm still learning and most of us, you know,
37:45
Speaker 1: I always compare it to like my husband, who's like
37:47
Speaker 1: such a dad dad right, He's like a normal dad, right,
37:51
Speaker 1: And he comes into meeting.
37:52
Speaker 3: He's like, I have no idea what is going on.
37:55
Speaker 3: I just let her talk.
37:57
Speaker 1: But there's so many families and it's not that they
37:59
Speaker 1: don't love their child or want the best, You just
38:01
Speaker 1: don't know. There's degrees dedicated to this, and like you said,
38:07
Speaker 1: we could go on for days and hours about different
38:10
Speaker 1: types of ways to educate your child.
38:12
Speaker 3: Yeah.
38:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, thank you for being here and giving us
38:15
Speaker 2: a snapshot. Yeah, and I encourage everybody to connect with
38:19
Speaker 2: you so that if they need more, that can get
38:21
Speaker 2: more as well. And I will see everybody next time.
38:24
Speaker 2: Take good care. I see you. You're doing hard and
38:30
Speaker 2: meaningful work and you don't have to do it alone.
38:33
Speaker 2: If you found this episode helpful, share it with someone
38:36
Speaker 2: who needs it and leave a quick review so others
38:39
Speaker 2: can find this support too. When you're ready for next steps,
38:43
Speaker 2: the Regulated Kid's Project is here with the tools, coaching,
38:47
Speaker 2: and community to help you raise a more regulated, resilient child.
38:52
Speaker 2: Get more info at regulated kids dot com