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Guest Podcast: Insider Secrets to Scaling Your Business Fast with Scott Clary (On The Homefront) · Success Story with Scott Clary

0:00
Today, you're going to hear me on Digital Social Hour with Sean Mike Kelly.
0:04
Make sure you subscribe on YouTube or go listen wherever you get your podcasts.
0:18
Just zoom out for people listening to understand what we do.
0:22
We have to go into someone else's life where they've been living in this domain for the past 20 years
0:27
and we have to find a way to keep up with them intellectually
0:31
and even though we may not know anything about the subject outside of a couple hours of research.
0:35
So combine that with doing it eight times in a row in a day or doing it in this like a little
0:40
wet box. It's not easy.
0:44
All right, guys, we got him back.
0:45
This time in a studio we can stand up in.
0:47
Yeah, you remember that first one in Miami?
0:49
I do remember that first one.
0:50
I do remember that one.
0:52
Miami's evolved a lot.
0:53
Yeah, I mean, now you have dope spaces like this.
0:55
So it's like the whole content creator scene.
0:58
This is all post-COVID.
0:59
I think tons of cool people move down here.
1:02
Hopefully we're part of that cohort of.
1:04
Absolutely.
1:04
That's why you're here.
1:06
But yeah, we've had a good time as we move down here and again,
1:08
podcasts are going well.
1:10
We're building out a studio too.
1:12
Oh, yeah.
1:12
Yeah, in Miami story.
1:13
Yeah, oh, yeah, about like five minutes from here.
1:15
Nice.
1:16
Yeah, so we got a house.
1:17
Yes, says in the back.
1:18
Yes, says it's going to be a studio.
1:19
Hellio.
1:19
That's smart.
1:20
Because that first studio was fully booked and you couldn't even
1:22
stand in the room.
1:23
It was like, how is this place booking out?
1:25
I know.
1:25
I'm talking about a studio, but I'm a big guy.
1:29
And that studio was like this little cement box
1:33
and not only could I not stand up,
1:36
but it also got super hot during the day.
1:38
I remember that.
1:39
And I did a couple podcasts in there.
1:41
You did like a stint like how you do your podcast where you just,
1:44
you court a whole bunch and like a period of time.
1:46
But I did a couple podcasts over like a course of a summer.
1:48
And I was about to pass out a time when I'm interviewing him.
1:51
You were sweating.
1:52
Dude, I was sweating.
1:53
I was sweating.
1:54
I'm passing out and I'm like, and you know,
1:56
some of the conversations, at least with people on my show,
1:59
for sure, it's like some of these people are so brilliant.
2:01
And I'm like, how do I keep up with this person
2:04
when I can barely keep my eyes open, right?
2:06
I'm sure that's why I respect you so much
2:08
with doing eight of these in a day,
2:10
because some of the topics that you talk about,
2:12
they're not light topics.
2:14
So as a podcaster, just zoom out for people listening
2:18
to understand what we do,
2:20
we have to go into someone else's life,
2:22
but they've been living in this domain for the past 20 years.
2:25
And we have to find a way to keep up with them intellectually.
2:28
And even though we may not know anything about the subject
2:30
outside of a couple hours of research.
2:32
So combine that with doing it eight times in a row in a day
2:35
or doing it in this like a little,
2:37
the wet box, it's not easy.
2:39
That's the part people don't realize, actually.
2:41
Yeah, they think you just show up and talk,
2:42
but there's research.
2:44
You got to keep up with their years of experience.
2:45
You do.
2:46
And I think that that's why you look at some of the best pot.
2:48
You look at Joe Rogan.
2:49
Joe Rogan has gotten significantly smarter.
2:51
Oh, yeah.
2:52
Since when you started podcasting
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to the conversations he has now.
2:55
So I think podcasting, even if you don't do it to make money,
2:59
I think it is one of the most intellectually challenging things
3:02
that you can ever do.
3:03
And I actually think it just upgrades you as a person.
3:05
Definitely.
3:06
I feel upgraded.
3:07
No, I do too.
3:08
You have to be open, because if you're closed off as a host,
3:10
it kind of ruins the flow of the show.
3:12
Yeah, and I study all the great podcasts.
3:14
Lex Freeman just did an eight hour podcast.
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I saw that with all the neural LinkedIn.
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Yeah, so I just started that one.
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But that's going to take me probably three days to watch.
3:20
But you have to have like, you have to,
3:22
I think the best podcasters, like Lex does this.
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I look, you know, I study the greats too.
3:27
I look at like, like a diary of a CEO is even barred.
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That's a great one.
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Modern wisdom blew up quick.
3:34
Even Joe Rogan, you look at like the OGs, Tim Ferris.
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What they do is they are experts at creating
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like this safe space where people feel comfortable
3:43
just talking about whatever's top mind for them.
3:46
You do this too.
3:47
You go, I see some of the guests that you have on your show.
3:49
Some of them are talking about, I know nothing
3:51
about some of it is like so out there.
3:53
I'm like, like how does he, how does he get these people
3:55
to open up?
3:56
And I think it's just about being open-minded.
4:00
And even if you have bias, you can't let it show.
4:03
Right.
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Because the second you let it show,
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somebody is going to be like, oh, I'm being judged.
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And then all of a sudden, that person is going to close off.
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So I think that you do a good job of it.
4:14
You're very much like, listen, I just want to hear your story.
4:17
I want to hear what you're all about.
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And the best podcasters in the world,
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they have this way of just creating this psychologically
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safe space and this vibe that less people open up.
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And if you can do that, even without, you know,
4:28
we're not drinking right now.
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And I don't think you drink on your podcast at all.
4:31
Some podcasts, they put like glass of liquor in front of your helps.
4:35
I'm sure it does.
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But I think that if you can do it without that,
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I think it goes to show how good of a host you are.
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And how good of a communicator and an interviewer
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and just like an empathetic person that you are.
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Yeah, I don't know.
4:47
No, that's a good skill.
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People ask me for tips all the time.
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And I'm still figuring it out.
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Like, I don't even know what to say.
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But that's phenomenal advice, you know,
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providing that comfort zone.
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Because comfort zone and it,
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and it, I think it's required if you want to be a podcaster.
5:00
Because if you, if you can't create that comfort zone,
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no one's going to open up and the content's going to be.
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But I think that the lesson that non-podcasters can learn from that
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is, okay, how do I, how do I get the information
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that I would like out of somebody?
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And to do that, you can't be, you can't be closed off.
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I mean, there's people that study this stuff in much more depth.
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I'm just sort of, you know, from a non-scientific perspective,
5:24
just how I interact with my guests.
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But I think to do that, I think you just have to be very open
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and create a safe space for people to communicate.
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And when you do that, you get a lot more information out of it.
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And you can use that information to help you in your career,
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in your life, in your relationship.
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I think that's a skill that I think is very important.
5:42
I also think that just to add a little bit more thought
5:46
onto that particular topic,
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social media has made us very bad at that skill.
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Because we are used to being closed off
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and we are used to living in echo chambers on Twitter,
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X, or Instagram, or whatever we're used to,
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not having competing points of view.
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I think that that's why everyone's so angry online.
6:03
So I think that in real life, if we can sort of work and practice
6:06
on that skill of being more open-minded, I think it just helps.
6:09
You agree exactly what you want.
6:10
No, 100%. You could apply that in all areas of life.
6:12
There's been plenty of guests I disagreed with,
6:14
but you would never know.
6:15
That's true, actually.
6:17
You're very much like, you ask questions.
6:20
And I actually look for an emotional response sometimes,
6:23
because I see some of the s**t that guests say on your show.
6:26
And some of the stuff that I see guests say,
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I'm like, this is s**t up.
6:29
This is like, I don't agree with this at all.
6:31
But you as an interviewer,
6:33
you're very like even keeled.
6:35
You're very much like, okay, awesome.
6:37
Let's like keep getting more information out.
6:39
Like, let's get some context out.
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Like, I want to understand your point of view, your perspective.
6:43
I mean, I think it's a great way to, again,
6:46
to interview, to go through life, not just interview,
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because then ultimately, not only will you get more information out,
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and you're just, you come off as not an s**t.
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I think also, you can get information out
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that could actually improve
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or educate you on your opinion
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if you feel differently.
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100%.
7:06
So I think that that's just a great way to go through life.
7:08
Yeah, and people are so quick to judge these days.
7:10
It's crazy.
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Like, you say one bad thing,
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and they just won't respect anything else you have to say.
7:14
Yeah, I think that that's an issue.
7:16
I think it's very toxic.
7:17
And it goes back to social media echo chambers,
7:19
I was speaking about before,
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because the algorithms on social,
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all algorithms promote,
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when you post an idea,
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an ideological point of view or perspective,
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what every social platform does is it shows similar perspectives.
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So if someone else posts,
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so say you're, you know, Republican Democrat,
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you're posting, and this is obviously just a very easy example.
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But if you're posting a whole bunch of stuff
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about pro-Trump, pro-Trump, pro-Trump,
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the algorithm's going to show you a lot of stuff
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that favors your point of view,
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because it wants you to engage,
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it wants you to stay on the platform.
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And then you're going to think
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that everybody in the world agrees with you,
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because all you're seeing on social,
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all your inputs are all the same idea as what you have.
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That's how the algorithms create echo chambers.
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That's an echo chamber.
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So when you see somebody who disagrees with you,
8:10
you're like, oh my god,
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how is this person so stupid?
8:13
Because every single day,
8:15
for eight hours a day,
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or whoever long people spend on social,
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I mean, the numbers are ridiculous,
8:19
but however long you're scrolling on social,
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your view on everything is being reinforced by an algorithm.
8:27
So this creates this perception
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that everything you think is 100% correct.
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And then the second someone says anything differently,
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you're like, oh my god, this person is stupid.
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How could anybody believe this?
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How could anybody believe anything outside of what
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I see all day, every single day,
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and then that's what creates that,
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that anger and the discord.
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That's so true.
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That's what happened during COVID.
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It happened even more during COVID,
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because everybody was stuck at home.
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So people weren't even engaging in real life in person.
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So you weren't even having real conversations.
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All your conversations you were having with anybody was online.
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So it just reinforces your point of view and your perspective
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to the point where you believe you start to believe
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that your perspective is the only right one.
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And then that creates this,
9:08
I don't know, it creates this very toxic environment.
9:10
Yeah, I think the feed should probably show both sides somehow.
9:13
It does.
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It totally, sorry, is that a answer?
9:16
I'm saying these feeds should maybe change their algorithm
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to show both sides instead of just one side.
9:20
Completely, yeah, I agree completely,
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but I don't think that incentivizes
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user time on the platform.
9:27
Yeah, I don't think incentivizes the metric
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that these platforms really want to incentivize.
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I think they want people to stay on the platform.
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I think they want people to be within a community.
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I think they want people to, I don't know,
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that's an interesting perspective.
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Yeah, because it would be a total,
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it would be a total algorithm shift
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from what everyone is doing right now.
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Because right now algorithms show you content that you like.
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You know, air quotes like.
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So if it showed you cons,
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if it consistently showed you content
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that you maybe didn't like, maybe that wouldn't keep people,
10:00
I'm sure there's, I'm sure there's a lot of insight
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and research into why algorithms do the things that they do.
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I just think that we're, I think that we are maybe not optimizing
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for the metrics that are in the best interest of society
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in the person.
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Right.
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I think we're optimizing for the metrics
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that are in the best interest of the social platforms.
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Because that's how they make money.
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So agreed.
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And they're also destroying, you know, attention span.
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They destroyed attention span.
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But I don't know how, I don't know how you would
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fundamental because the incentives drive the behavior
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and the incentives are shareholder value,
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the incentives are revenue.
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How do you change that?
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That's a tough ask question, dude.
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I don't know how you change that.
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Yeah, we're into deep.
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You're telling me that you want Twitter to make less money
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and Facebook to make less money
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and Instagram to make less money.
10:50
Like I don't see that being outside of, outside of perhaps
10:55
government intervention.
10:56
Or I know some people are working on alternative social platforms
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and democratizing social and not monetizing user data
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to the same degree as what these companies do.
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But right now, the incumbents, they're so entrenched
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and they're so part of our daily lives.
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I think it's tough to change.
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We're in deep.
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Three second attention span now, humans have.
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For real?
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Is that true?
11:18
Yeah, that's wild.
11:18
Well, it was a new study.
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I don't know what that's been proven.
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I think that makes, I think that actually is,
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I think that a three second attention span,
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obviously that's, you know, that's just regarding social media.
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But if we talk about a younger generation
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and the need for instant gratification,
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I think that that plays a part of it.
11:41
Yeah.
11:42
I think that need for instant dopamine hits,
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instant delivery with Amazon Prime,
11:47
instant food, instant TV on demand, Netflix, whatever.
11:51
Everything is instant, right?
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And I think that that really, it really
11:57
screws up your perception of how you should operate
12:02
in this world to actually achieve what you want.
12:04
Because when everything,
12:05
when all these tiny little inconsequential things
12:08
are handed to you immediately,
12:11
the things that you should actually make an impact.
12:14
So your career or the amount of time
12:16
you put into a business as an entrepreneur,
12:19
all the things that will actually impact your life
12:22
in a positive way.
12:22
I'm not talking about getting your dinner
12:24
in the next 30 minutes.
12:25
I'm not talking about, you know,
12:27
seeing a cool thing on your phone
12:29
that you're going to, you're going to forget about
12:31
and, you know, apparently three seconds later.
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I'm talking about things that will actually
12:35
move your life in a positive direction.
12:38
I think that all this instant overnight gratification
12:42
has ruined our ability, not everybody's,
12:45
but a lot of people that grew up with this
12:46
has ruined a younger generation's ability
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to understand the time required
12:52
to achieve significant things.
12:55
So I think that then when you live
12:56
in this instant gratification world,
12:58
it's very hard to understand how to commit
13:00
five or 10 or 15 or 20 years of your life to something.
13:04
And I think that that's screwing up a lot of people
13:07
because they think that, well,
13:08
if everything in my life is instant,
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why can't my business success be instant?
13:13
If everything in my life is instant,
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why can't my career success be instant?
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I see all these people that are killing it
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on social media.
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Why can't my business be making a million dollars
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a month and six months?
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Because that's not reality.
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That's some, that's some architected reality
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that somebody put out onto social.
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But that architected reality,
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that fake reality just reinforced
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by all the other things that come to you
13:38
overnight right away.
13:39
Like it's not your fingers.
13:40
So I think that we have to really understand
13:42
the investment in time and energy in band
13:44
with a takes to make something great.
13:46
And if people understood that,
13:50
if people understood the amount of time,
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the amount of energy and the amount of work,
13:52
I mean, you've done how many episodes, like 900?
13:56
Yeah, almost 900.
13:56
900 episodes?
13:58
Yeah. That's wild.
13:59
And technically in a very short period of time.
14:01
Year and a half.
14:02
So if somebody wants to build a podcast,
14:05
I mean, most podcasts, they fill out after 10 episodes.
14:08
Right.
14:09
I don't even know if they make it to 10 episodes.
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So if somebody wants to build a significant podcast
14:12
or a significant anything, commit to recording 900 episodes.
14:16
Oh, you sound right. Yeah, yeah.
14:18
Exactly.
14:19
And even if it's not in the time frame that you did it,
14:22
even if it's over 10 years, it doesn't matter
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because you're putting in the reps.
14:25
So 900 episodes over 10 years
14:27
is still gonna be a good show.
14:28
900 reps over five.
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You're still gonna be a good show.
14:31
But people think they want like instant overnight
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gratification, success, everything.
14:34
And it's just toxic.
14:35
I feel like I didn't get good at podcasting
14:38
to like episode 200, 300 to be honest, you know?
14:40
100%.
14:41
And you just, like what you did is you compressed time
14:44
by putting in more work than most people
14:46
are comfortable putting in.
14:47
Like I was uncomfortable putting in that much work
14:49
when I started my show.
14:50
I didn't do 900 episodes in what,
14:52
like two years or three years or whatever it is.
14:54
I mean, I do two episodes a week.
14:56
Which is more than most.
14:57
It's just still more than most.
14:58
It's just still more than most.
14:59
And I looked at like John Lee Duma,
15:01
who did entrepreneurs on fire.
15:03
He was putting out five episodes a week.
15:05
And I'm like, dude, you're nuts.
15:06
Like I don't know how to even manage that.
15:07
But I think that the point is whether or not
15:10
it's five episodes a week,
15:12
or you're putting it like two or three episodes a day
15:13
at some point, it's like, wild.
15:15
Or it's two episodes a week.
15:17
Like the lesson is find a way within your band
15:22
within your comfort zone to stay in it
15:24
for an unreasonable amount of time.
15:26
Give it so much time that it's unreasonable
15:28
for you to be unsuccessful at it.
15:30
I think that's Armosia, some variant of that quote.
15:33
But it's 100% true.
15:34
Like my rule is a 10 year rule.
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If I'm gonna build anything worth building,
15:37
I wanna commit 10 years of my life to that thing.
15:40
Because it's not 10 years of doing things that don't work
15:42
and 10 years of beating your head against the wall.
15:44
It's 10 years of learning and improving
15:46
and iterating and optimizing.
15:48
There may be a pivot here or there.
15:49
But the point is, when you commit 10 years
15:51
of your life to something,
15:52
you are setting yourself up for success psychologically
15:57
because you know how long it's gonna take.
15:58
And when you set yourself up for that,
16:00
you have realistic expectations.
16:02
But also, if you're gonna say,
16:03
I'm gonna commit to this thing for 10 years.
16:06
Okay, now what does the rest of my life look like?
16:08
I only have $50,000 in my bank account right now.
16:12
So can I really do this thing for 10 years
16:14
if I quit my job?
16:15
Well, no, the answer is no, you can't.
16:17
So maybe you find a way to structure it.
16:19
So you're still working your nine to five
16:21
and you're building your thing
16:22
from five to nine or on the weekends.
16:24
But the point is you're structuring your life
16:25
so you can commit to this for the long haul.
16:27
Which will ultimately lead to you being successful
16:30
at that thing.
16:31
So I think that when you have this long term vision
16:34
and this long term mindset,
16:35
that's what sets you up for success psychologically
16:38
and in like the practical day to day of,
16:40
how do I build this thing?
16:41
Well, not running out of money to pay rent
16:44
or pay the bills or it support my family.
16:46
And when you can set yourself up like that,
16:47
that's I think, I think that,
16:51
you know, the old, not the old,
16:53
but the common trope with entrepreneurship
16:56
is like you have like a 95% failure rate.
16:58
Yeah.
16:59
I think when you think in a 10 year mindset,
17:02
I think you inverse that.
17:04
I think you have a 95% success rate
17:07
because there's not many people who I know
17:10
who commit to doing something for 10 years
17:12
and show up every single day for 10 years
17:15
and aren't some version of successful at that thing.
17:17
That's very hard to say.
17:18
I can't think of any.
17:19
It's very hard to say.
17:20
It's very hard to say.
17:21
If you've got to keep the way to architect
17:23
your environment, your life, your business
17:24
so that you can commit to that long.
17:26
All right.
17:27
And that's great advice because like you said,
17:28
this instant gratification error is tough.
17:31
I mean, as someone that's hiring employees,
17:33
you must be seeing this on a daily basis.
17:36
I have, so I think that it impacts,
17:40
it impacts people differently.
17:42
So a lot of my team right now,
17:44
and I'm gonna have this problem soon
17:46
because I'm building out a studio
17:48
for my show right now in person.
17:49
And a lot of these interviews are gonna be in person
17:51
where for a period of my show, a lot of it was virtual.
17:54
But obviously, the in person is a better conversation,
17:56
it's a better experience, it's more real.
17:59
And as we discuss, that's very important
18:00
for getting good content.
18:03
But most of my team up to this point has been virtual.
18:06
So I haven't had a huge issue with it,
18:08
but I have heard from France
18:09
who have tried to hire in the US in South Florida
18:12
in particular, that hiring in person,
18:15
people in the US right now is a pain in the ass.
18:19
Everyone seems entitled, I'm not gonna name names,
18:22
but one of my good friends, he's tried to hire.
18:24
I'm sure a lot of videographers,
18:28
he wants to create content.
18:29
And he's a nice, like I know him.
18:31
I know him very well, he's a nice guy.
18:32
He's not like, there's some people, okay, maybe it's like,
18:35
he's hiring, not like the employee is the issue.
18:38
This guy is one of the nicest guys,
18:40
most generous guys I've ever known.
18:42
And he's probably gone through like 10 videographers,
18:45
but the **** that I hear, this is a wild story
18:48
that never existed.
18:49
He hired a guy W2.
18:50
So like, salary, hired a salary guy.
18:53
So this is like, this is your salary, this is a job.
18:56
And I mean, I haven't worked at W2 in a while,
18:59
but like when I took a job and I took the salary,
19:03
like there was nothing that was unclear to me.
19:07
I knew what the job was, I knew what the salary was.
19:09
Guy signs the contract.
19:11
First week that he shows up to work,
19:13
he after he signs the contract,
19:15
he wants to renegotiate for a higher salary.
19:17
In his first week of work.
19:18
Wow.
19:19
This is not like a contractor.
19:20
This is a guy that's salary that would ever 70K
19:22
or something like that in South Florida
19:25
for videography work for full-time contracts.
19:27
I mean, the issue is not that he wants more money.
19:31
That's his prerogative.
19:32
The issue is that if you want more money,
19:35
first of all, you have to negotiate
19:37
before you sign a contract.
19:38
It's like the whole concept of work is skewed.
19:42
I've never heard of this in my life
19:43
where somebody would try and negotiate a contract
19:45
after they sign a contract.
19:46
It doesn't make sense to me.
19:48
Again, when I applied for a job,
19:50
went through the interview process, got my offer,
19:53
negotiated, agreed, signed, went to work.
19:56
So I've heard a lot of stories like this
20:00
about trying to hire, and it seems to be, I don't know.
20:04
It can't be like all across the US,
20:08
but I think in some parts of the US,
20:10
especially lifestyle cities like Miami,
20:12
I think that it's very hard to find people who want to work.
20:16
I think it's very difficult.
20:17
And I don't know how you solve for that.
20:19
I think that maybe finding ways
20:22
to create more of a work-life balance
20:25
or to align that person's,
20:27
the company's goals with the goals of that person,
20:30
I think, could be a way to solve for that.
20:32
But I think we're in this really awkward stage
20:35
where I think COVID showed people
20:38
what life could be like if they work from home,
20:41
which is no problem with that at all.
20:42
But I think that also, the reality is,
20:45
is if you're gonna work from home
20:47
and you want a high salary,
20:48
I think you have to put the reps in first
20:51
and maybe do the not so fun work
20:53
and then not so fun job to get your career started
20:56
and then you can demand more.
20:58
And I think what people are doing now
21:00
is they're demanding more without having the accolades
21:03
or the background to really warrant that,
21:07
that type of environment.
21:09
So I think that you have a lot of entitlement.
21:11
I think that you have a lot of, again,
21:12
like I mentioned, people trying to fast forward their career
21:16
without putting in the reps.
21:18
And I think that, I don't know where it's gonna go.
21:22
I just think it makes hiring harder.
21:23
I think it makes building a business harder.
21:25
I think it makes everything harder.
21:28
So I think that this is something that,
21:30
if you are young in your career
21:32
and you're willing to go to an office
21:35
or to do the things that everybody else did,
21:38
I think that you will have an advantage.
21:41
I think that this is where you can shine.
21:43
If you are willing to do tough work for a period of time,
21:48
everyone else did,
21:49
I think this is where you're gonna come out on top.
21:52
Because I think a lot of people
21:53
are very entitled in their career.
21:55
A lot of comparison, too, on social media.
21:58
Well, that's a thing.
21:59
You look at social and it's also because a lot of people
22:02
are architecting their lives to portray this certain thing
22:05
that isn't even true.
22:06
So why are you comparing yourself
22:08
to something that isn't even true, right?
22:11
But that's why for me,
22:14
even when I'm building my own business,
22:15
when I'm building my own podcast,
22:17
I'm not focusing on what anyone else is doing.
22:20
I'm just focusing on building out the best thing for me.
22:22
I'm focusing on being the best interviewer.
22:24
I'm focusing on having the most beautiful studio.
22:27
I'm focusing on doing the research on the best cameras
22:30
that will create the best YouTube video.
22:32
I'm focusing on creating the best product
22:34
and always upskilling myself
22:36
and upskilling my company
22:37
and upskilling my, or developing my podcast.
22:40
And if I consistently do that,
22:43
and I'll learn from people that are doing it
22:44
at a higher level, but I'm not worried about them.
22:47
I'm worried about me.
22:48
I'm worried about bettering me.
22:49
So if I look at anyone else,
22:51
it's only to learn and to understand and to study.
22:54
It's never to be sad that I'm not there.
23:00
I don't give a **** that I'm not there.
23:02
I fully believe that if I do all the things
23:06
that someone else does and I reverse engineer their success,
23:09
and I understand all the different things
23:10
that they've incorporated into their show, into their team,
23:14
into their social media strategy,
23:15
I will eventually get there.
23:17
So it's just about learning, understanding,
23:19
putting in the reps, doing the work,
23:21
figuring out how to do it better,
23:22
learning how to interview better,
23:24
reading books, on asking questions, whatever it is.
23:26
But I think that that is,
23:28
I think that's the hard work that people want to skip
23:31
when they start something new,
23:33
and they look at somebody else
23:34
and they play this comparison game,
23:36
and I think you're setting yourself up for failure.
23:39
Oh yeah, I used to play that game.
23:40
We all did.
23:41
I can't though.
23:41
It was terrible mindset.
23:43
You're never gonna get there as fast as you think you will,
23:46
but you will get there.
23:48
So that comparison game, it's just toxic.
23:51
It's super toxic.
23:52
It's super toxic, so.
23:53
Big step from me too was realizing
23:55
no one gives a **** about you.
23:57
Like that to me was like a life-changing revelation moment
24:00
because I used to really care about
24:02
how people perceive me.
24:03
Putting yourself out online.
24:04
Yeah.
24:05
I used to like not put myself out online
24:07
because I was so scared of being judged.
24:08
Yeah.
24:09
No one really gave a **** once I started doing it.
24:11
No, I haven't worried about that too much
24:16
because I've seen some ridiculous **** online.
24:18
So in my mind, I'm like, listen,
24:22
if you're not a ****,
24:23
if you're not like a piece of ****,
24:24
if you're not racist, which hopefully,
24:28
hopefully I'm not, hopefully I'm not, hopefully I'm not
24:31
**** with anybody.
24:33
If I'm just putting out what I believe in online
24:35
and I'm putting out who I am online,
24:37
there's gonna be people that don't like that.
24:39
But I don't care if people don't like me
24:41
if I'm a good person who's trying to do better
24:44
in the world or create great content.
24:45
I mean, I think that if you do get pushed back
24:50
or if people do talk **** about the stuff
24:53
that you're putting out online,
24:54
I think maybe use it as an opportunity to learn
24:57
and see if any of you could do better.
24:59
But ultimately, you can't let it impact you
25:00
because there's always gonna be people that don't like you.
25:02
There's people that don't like Mother Teresa.
25:04
Like, what are you gonna do?
25:05
It comes with the game, right?
25:08
Even Mr. Beast, he's getting a ton of heat right now.
25:10
Well, Mr. Beast is getting a ton of heat for a lot of reasons.
25:12
But what I'm saying is he's done so much good.
25:15
He's done so much good.
25:16
And even before, like, not to take this podcast
25:19
and not make it evergreen,
25:20
but even before what's happening literally right now
25:22
with Mr. Beast, there's still people to hate it up.
25:24
There's people to hate it in first personality.
25:26
But even though he's literally like outside of the movie,
25:29
he's making, he's doing such like philanthropic
25:31
and charity whining stuff like that.
25:33
People always, people always talk ****.
25:37
So, I mean, this is one of the best ways,
25:41
I can't remember who told me this,
25:43
but the quote is more or less,
25:48
people already have an opinion of you,
25:51
whether or not you're online or not.
25:53
People will already form an opinion.
25:55
By putting yourself out online,
25:57
you just get a chance to shape that narrative.
26:02
So people will already have an opinion of you.
26:04
So know that positive and negative.
26:07
So if you put yourself out online,
26:09
the best possible outcome is that you just get a chance
26:12
to skew that slightly more in your favor.
26:14
Agreed.
26:15
People will still hate you,
26:17
but ultimately it doesn't affect you.
26:18
Yeah.
26:19
How's that happening when you interviewed someone
26:20
and you had an opinion going into the episode
26:23
on how they would act and stuff?
26:24
Have I had an opinion going in?
26:26
I try trying to think.
26:29
For me, it was Grant Cardone.
26:30
That was a big one for me.
26:31
You asked me about Grant Cardone.
26:33
The first time we did an interview.
26:35
Oh, did I?
26:36
Yeah, you did.
26:37
And I said, I didn't really have a problem with him.
26:39
I said, I said, I think that,
26:42
okay, so Grant Cardone, to me, is like an Andrew Tate.
26:45
Grant Cardone has a persona that he puts out online
26:51
that accomplishes a business objective.
26:54
I mean, I'd have a different perspective
26:58
if he was fraud or if he was scamming people.
27:01
But so far, the lawsuits against him haven't held up.
27:05
I've spoken to people that are really into real estate
27:07
and they're like, listen, if you look at his disclosures
27:10
in his agreements and his offering memorandums,
27:13
you read through exactly what he does
27:14
is pretty black and white.
27:16
I mean, I think the people that talk a lot of,
27:20
because they want, I mean, there's a lot of channels
27:23
that just talk about famous people
27:24
because they know that it drives views to their channel.
27:27
But I don't think he's doing anything fraudulent
27:30
because he has these exceptionally long legal agreements
27:34
whenever he raises money for a building.
27:36
Maybe people don't read them,
27:38
but that doesn't mean he's doing anything fraudulent.
27:41
So I think that he has a personality online.
27:43
He's figured out a formula that works.
27:45
Tate has a personality online.
27:47
He figured out a formula that works.
27:49
I mean, you can like him or not like his personality,
27:53
but from a business lens, what they're doing is very smart.
27:57
They have a business objective that they're accomplishing.
28:00
So when somebody like that comes on, again,
28:02
the difference would be if you're actually fraudulent
28:04
or if you're actually a piece of ****,
28:06
that's when I will not like you.
28:08
But if you have a personality
28:10
and ultimately the output of what you're doing
28:12
is a net positive.
28:12
I mean, what he's teaching people is to sell.
28:15
I don't agree with his sales methods,
28:16
but he is teaching people how to sell.
28:18
He's returning investors money.
28:22
And I guess outside of that,
28:23
he's kind of like just like the like ra ra, you know,
28:27
grab life by the balls and do more
28:29
and be more kind of personality.
28:31
That's not inherently a bad thing.
28:32
Like I don't mind if somebody's lighting a fire
28:34
under people's asses.
28:35
I think that there could be better role models,
28:39
but I think that it's better to go out
28:41
and try and make more money
28:43
and try and improve yourself as an entrepreneur
28:46
or as a man than not.
28:48
I mean, that's sort of my net takeaway
28:50
from either Grant or Andrew, really.
28:53
But yeah, it's so funny.
28:54
So you ask me, do I have these preconceived notions
29:00
or biases when people come into my show?
29:04
Very, very rarely because again,
29:06
the people that I like to bring onto my show,
29:09
I don't mind if they have different opinions.
29:11
All I care about is if they are who they say they are.
29:14
If they are who they say they are
29:15
and they aren't hurting anybody,
29:16
that's what's important to me.
29:18
Because I wanna understand how they think.
29:20
I would have more issue if somebody is claiming
29:22
to be some whatever Instagram business leader,
29:29
private jets that are rented,
29:31
Lambo that's rented for a photo shoot,
29:34
saying they can open up some sort of Amazon dropshipping store
29:39
and you go on, you know, you look them up
29:42
and there's nothing but people saying they have lost
29:44
like 50, 60,000 of this person
29:45
they never filled on the deliverables that they promised.
29:48
That to me is an issue.
29:49
That to me is not wild personality.
29:52
That to me is just fraudulent, that's the difference
29:55
and I don't like to have those people on my show.
29:57
So no, I don't really hate anybody going in
30:01
but it's interesting you asked me about Grant
30:02
because yeah, I remember you asked me about him
30:04
the first time.
30:04
I was wondering where that question came from.
30:06
No, it's just so, I interviewed him after you
30:08
but it's just so interesting
30:09
because going up to that one,
30:11
I was really trying to get it out of my head
30:12
about the scammer thing
30:13
because he was getting a lot of heat at the time.
30:15
Yeah, he was.
30:16
And the Scientology thing.
30:17
So I was trying to just be open, but it was tough.
30:19
I think yeah, I mean,
30:21
Scientology thing is a little bit wild.
30:23
Yeah, I didn't ask it on that one.
30:25
I mean, maybe next time.
30:28
People can believe whatever the fuck they want to believe
30:31
doesn't matter to me, just don't force it on me.
30:34
Right.
30:35
I know Scientology, like how Grant,
30:37
I think Grant learned a lot from Scientology
30:40
in terms of how he structures his business
30:42
because Scientology is a very, very good sales organization.
30:46
They're very good at getting their members.
30:48
They almost got me.
30:49
Really?
30:50
Streets of LA, no idea of Scientology.
30:51
That's so wild.
30:52
He pulled me inside.
30:53
I wrote down my email and everything.
30:55
I had no idea of Scientology.
30:56
They'll make you spend a lot of money.
30:58
Like they have sales techniques, right?
31:00
So when you, I mean, this is anecdotal.
31:02
I've actually never been involved in Scientology,
31:04
but this is sort of like secondhand.
31:05
So it takes with the grain of salt
31:06
I could be totally speaking out of my ass, I don't know.
31:08
But from what I have heard,
31:10
Scientology does a lot of like mastermind style events
31:13
and they have people running around
31:15
and upselling you into next programs
31:17
and courses and shit.
31:18
And I think that a lot of grants sales architecture
31:21
for some of his stuff comes from some of the ways
31:24
that Scientology gets his members
31:25
to spend more money.
31:27
So I mean, a strong sales strategy,
31:31
I guess it's a strong sales strategy.
31:32
Again, I don't agree with this type of sales strategy
31:35
because I do come from a sales background.
31:36
But it works for him.
31:39
I don't know.
31:40
It's, yeah, I don't really have a comment on Scientology.
31:44
That's a controversial one.
31:47
How's your social club mastermind speaking of events?
31:49
It's good, it's tough.
31:50
We were actually just talking about that,
31:52
not to break the fourth while two months,
31:54
but I was talking about how to put on live events
31:56
and it's a pain in the ass of a business.
31:58
A lot of logistics, right?
31:59
It's a lot.
32:00
It's a lot.
32:01
And I think that just like an entrepreneur perspective
32:05
going in, I think that when you think about
32:08
starting a new business,
32:10
you have to think about how to use leverage.
32:12
Leverage is the most important thing
32:13
as an entrepreneur, right?
32:14
So like there's capital, there's people,
32:17
there's technology, there's media.
32:19
And I think that the more types of leverage
32:22
you can use for your business, the easier it can be.
32:25
So a lot of people, when they start a business,
32:28
I mean, you don't have a huge workforce
32:30
working for you day one.
32:31
Most people don't have a media presence.
32:33
And some people are techy, that's why software eats the world,
32:36
but not everyone's techy, so they just use capital.
32:39
And I think that for a mastermind or in-person
32:42
networking business,
32:43
like the only thing that you really have access to immediately
32:45
for most people is capital.
32:47
Because technology doesn't really help you.
32:49
People, you don't have a team when you first start
32:51
and media, you don't have a media presence.
32:52
So for me, it's a very difficult business to start.
32:55
So from just sort of like what businesses
33:00
should I spend more time in if I wasn't already doing it?
33:03
Sort of like the lesson learned is find a business
33:06
where you can use more points of leverage
33:07
because it'll help you get it off the ground.
33:09
A little bit quicker.
33:10
Now, I fortunately have media leverage and capital leverage,
33:13
but I didn't have a team when I first started it out.
33:15
So it was a lot of logistics and work
33:17
and hiring event planners and all this.
33:19
But I think that that's actually something you should think about.
33:21
So how do I add those four types of leverage?
33:23
And that's a Naval tweet thread
33:26
on those four types of leverage.
33:28
Out of those four types of leverage
33:29
of finance people, technology and media,
33:32
what can I deploy to get this business off the ground quicker,
33:35
which will just basically compress the time
33:37
from getting it going to when it's a financially viable
33:40
product market fit business?
33:41
Yeah.
33:42
And in-person events, masterminds, they're paying in the ass.
33:45
They are paying in the ass to get going.
33:47
And I think that that's why you actually see a lot,
33:50
and I come from a tech background.
33:52
So I understand, and I can feel the difference.
33:55
And I can feel the friction in taking a tech product
33:57
off the ground, which is also not easy.
33:59
But I feel like there's less risk when you have a tech product
34:03
and a like a CTO developer co-founder
34:06
versus when you try and put this in-person physical event
34:09
business together, because you have tech product,
34:12
you can get the developer as a co-founder
34:14
to develop the product.
34:16
You can, if you're a marketer, you know how
34:19
to generate organic traffic, you can convert organic traffic,
34:22
take that money, roll it into ads, sort of scale that way.
34:26
With an event business, without even making a sale,
34:30
you have venue, you have insurance, you have speaker costs,
34:34
you have staff that are going to be working the event,
34:39
you have food and bev, you have like $50,000, $100,000
34:41
startup costs for one event that's no guaranteed sales.
34:44
So the risk profile in the business is much higher,
34:46
which I think it makes a lot of sense
34:49
if you want to put a lot of money into it to start it off,
34:52
to test it out, or if you already have a business,
34:55
and you can find a way to add this on
34:56
when you're already a revenue generating business.
34:59
So the issue that I had is the podcast, is the podcast,
35:03
and the mastermind is the mastermind,
35:04
and they're not technically tied together.
35:06
There's some pieces that overlap,
35:08
and even with an audience, I have a little bit less friction
35:10
than the average person, but I think that that's just
35:12
like the lesson learned, is find a way to reduce the amount
35:15
of friction as much as possible,
35:17
and I think that in person anything is like a high friction,
35:20
high risk business to start off.
35:21
Super high, yeah.
35:22
I had to learn from Flatian, so I have a...
35:24
She does aspire and all that, that was tough.
35:26
Yeah, no, it's tough.
35:27
So I have events, and if I wasn't able to use leverage
35:30
to get a free venue, use my leverage for my connections
35:33
to get good speakers, it'd be tough, dude.
35:35
Super tough.
35:36
I mean, I've been doing them for five years,
35:37
I haven't made any money off them directly,
35:39
but indirectly with the people I meet,
35:41
has turned into money.
35:42
Now, that's the thing, if you configure it out,
35:44
then obviously it can be a great business,
35:46
and I would group masterminds in the same category,
35:50
in-person masterminds in the same category,
35:52
is conferences and stuff like that.
35:54
I have a friend right now who's trying to put on
35:56
for the first time ever a larger conference,
35:58
and I'm sort of just watching him,
36:00
and he's doing the GaryVee content style,
36:04
where you document everything you're doing on your journey,
36:07
and it's a lot, dude.
36:09
Yeah, but...
36:10
It's a lot, it's just a lot to get people into a room
36:13
and find a way to monetize that,
36:15
to the point where it's a viable business model.
36:18
So I think just like, for entrepreneurs listening,
36:22
don't just hop on the mastermind bandwagon
36:24
because you see like Tony Robbins charging $100,000
36:27
per year per person for like,
36:29
this platinum level membership, right?
36:31
I think that focus on the business
36:34
that you have the best chance of succeeding in,
36:36
and I think there's other businesses
36:37
that are easier to start.
36:38
Way easier.
36:39
Yeah, I see them as mainly just networking.
36:41
Yeah, I see it as more of a value add.
36:43
Right.
36:44
A value add to an existing business,
36:47
then like a siloed isolated business model on its own.
36:51
Agreed.
36:52
Even I think with a spire,
36:53
I think I can't remember how they got that off the ground.
36:55
You know the story of a spire.
36:57
I don't, I know Dan joined pretty late though,
37:00
like they're already running,
37:01
but that yeah, I'm so curious if they had a business
37:03
and they funded it through another business,
37:05
or if they just they had to of,
37:06
because the conferences are probably a million to put on, right?
37:08
Yeah, I mean, like so if you're putting,
37:10
and you also have cash flow issues, right?
37:13
So a lot of the people for the conferences,
37:14
they want payment before the actual conference takes place.
37:17
Yup, the speakers, yeah.
37:18
Yeah, they want money up front.
37:20
I mean, and you're selling tickets right to,
37:23
right to the actual conference date,
37:25
and there's sometimes you're selling tickets at the door too.
37:27
So I mean, unless your tickets are grossly expensive
37:31
or you have, you know, some, a couple thousand people,
37:34
you, you're gonna have massive cash flow issues
37:36
unless you're spending this, this, this, yourself.
37:38
Yeah, so I, from what I've seen,
37:40
because I've been to three of them,
37:41
they do a pitch every show.
37:43
Yeah, and I'm pretty sure that's where they make
37:44
a majority of their money.
37:45
Of course, but imagine the million dollars
37:47
that you have to spend to get people
37:48
in the room to be able to make that.
37:48
You got to float it and you can no longer just put
37:50
a big name on and it'll sell out.
37:52
No, you have to market it.
37:53
No, you have to market it.
37:54
You have, or you have to get somebody,
37:56
because all the guys that do like the speaking,
37:59
speaking for pay, that you see everywhere.
38:01
Everywhere.
38:02
Like, their stuff isn't new anymore.
38:04
So if you want to get somebody,
38:06
I mean, so I, so I was at inbound,
38:09
like HubSpot's big conference in Boston last year.
38:12
And they had like Barack Obama
38:14
like the first year that I spoke there.
38:16
And they had, I think Reese Witherspoon
38:19
like the second year in this year,
38:20
they have Ryan Reynolds.
38:21
Like they have like people that aren't accessible.
38:24
Really not accessible.
38:25
But I'm sure they're paying.
38:26
I think Barack is like $500,000 to get them on stage.
38:30
Yeah.
38:31
So I mean, it takes a lot of money
38:33
to get people that aren't just speakers for hire, right?
38:36
But that will get people to your event.
38:38
But I mean, most people don't want to put $500,000
38:41
into a maybe.
38:42
Like you're going to get them there for sure,
38:44
but outside of the security and logistics,
38:48
are you really going to sell enough
38:50
your first time selling from stage
38:53
to make up that $500 grand
38:55
plus all your event expenses?
38:57
No, probably not.
38:58
No, it's tough, dude.
38:59
It's tough.
39:00
Very tough.
39:01
Scott, who's coming on next?
39:02
And who's your dream guest?
39:04
Who's my dream guest?
39:05
Who's coming on next?
39:07
I have a lot of people coming on next.
39:09
Can't remember who it is right now.
39:12
I'm not as far behind as you,
39:14
but I'm a little bit behind.
39:15
I'm probably like two months behind.
39:16
Okay.
39:17
That's pretty, pretty good at it.
39:19
Well, I had to get my sh** together
39:23
because guests were getting mad.
39:25
Oh, that happened to me.
39:26
I was six months behind, so I had to get my sh** together.
39:29
And also when we talk about something
39:31
and it's time-bound and relevant,
39:34
I also don't want it to be so far in the past.
39:39
So I'm about two months behind now.
39:42
Dream guests, the dream guests are like, listen,
39:45
I'm coming for the Tim Ferrisses of the world.
39:49
Like, I want to be that level of show, as do you.
39:52
I mean, you want to get Elon and you want to get Zach
39:55
and you want to get Bezos.
39:56
You want to get Bezos.
39:57
You want to get, I mean,
39:58
you want to get presidential candidates on
40:00
and that Trump just didn't know.
40:01
Like, you want to be at that level.
40:03
All podcasters do, so we're going there.
40:05
Oh, yeah.
40:06
The big four.
40:07
We'll see who gets there first, mate.
40:08
We'll have a little friendly competition.
40:10
Awesome, Scott, thanks for coming on.
40:11
Where can people find the podcast and everything?
40:13
Pretty easy.
40:14
All the socials at Scott DeClaire and podcasts
40:16
is success story podcast up.
40:17
Awesome.
40:18
Thanks for watching, guys.
40:19
We'll link below.
40:20
Check them out.
40:21
Peace.