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An Icelandic professor on projects and a can-do mindset · Project Podcast

0:09
Welcome to the IPM podcast. OPM is to Childhood body for the
0:12
project profession. My name is Emma Devita and I'm
0:15
the editor of project apm's quarterly journal and your host.
0:19
In this podcast. I speak to hey, coding Unison,
0:22
Professor project management at the University of Reykjavik, he
0:26
can't invite me over early, in the year to visit Iceland and
0:29
find out more about the The projects being undertaken there
0:31
and how the university specifically through its Masters
0:34
in project. Management course is helping
0:36
create the project professionals needed to take the country
0:38
through its latest transformation.
0:41
You can read all about it in the spring issue of the journal, so
0:44
don't miss that. But now he could talks to me
0:46
about his unusual entry into project management and how the
0:49
Icelandic mindset is something we could all benefit learning
0:52
from. Welcome hair, curlier in
0:59
Reykjavik. What's it, like, in Reykjavik at
1:01
the moment? It's really nice.
1:05
It's quiet. It's not raining or not, knowing
1:08
at the moment. It's a quiet.
1:10
Beautiful morning in Reykjavik. So it was wonderful to visit
1:13
earlier in the year and I was so impressed by what you're doing
1:18
at the University and helping to shape the next generation of
1:22
project professionals, which there seems to be a very strong
1:25
demand for in Iceland at the You have a little bit of an unusual
1:30
background coming to project management.
1:33
Could you talk a bit about how you you found yourself teaching
1:39
the Masters in project management at the University of
1:42
Reykjavik? Yes, that's true.
1:44
I my background is rather unusual in the School of
1:48
Technology. So I'm a theologian.
1:52
I have a strong background in Psychology or so and philosophy
1:57
but since Early on I was always doing things so I'm very
2:02
practical in everything I do. I remember when I was a kid, I
2:06
worked in a farm. When I was 9 to 17 years old, in
2:09
the summertime, that was regarded as a something that was
2:13
good for children to do. So I built houses, I have I know
2:18
how to smelt. I can do all kinds of different
2:22
things. So, throughout my life, I've
2:25
always been very keen on. Getting things done.
2:29
So when I came back from my PhD studies in New York, I went into
2:36
theology. I also have some background in
2:38
economics and but I pursued a career like in theology with a
2:44
focus on psychology. So my PhD is in the field called
2:48
Psychiatry and religion and I worked as a hospital.
2:52
Chaplain at Lenox Hill Hospital in New York and I also did
2:58
Training as a psychoanalyst. And when I came back to Iceland,
3:02
I hooked up with my good friend, health authority in cash own and
3:06
we had, he had gotten very interested in this new field
3:10
project management and we wanted to do something together.
3:13
So we sat down and he explained to me, briefly what project
3:18
management is and and actually with a senior engineer that had
3:23
kind of been his mentor in project management.
3:28
And a man with a very long experience in the field and kind
3:33
of kind of The Godfather of project management in Iceland.
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So after a very interesting encounter where we were three
3:41
sitting together, I said to them, let me go home and think
3:46
deeply what I can bring into the field.
3:50
Two days later we met again and I came back with ideas about
3:54
let's say self-management how to cope with stress Negotiations,
3:59
how to engage people in the conversations interpersonal.
4:03
Communications, Conflict Management crisis management
4:06
cultural implications of of our works ethics and I could go on
4:13
and on. So we kind of brought all of
4:16
this together and we created a program called project
4:19
leadership and product management and Leadership and
4:23
that became a great success. And out of that grew this
4:26
Master's Mpm program at Reykjavik University, is a place
4:31
for professionals who have experience and want to kind of
4:34
renew themselves or take it further.
4:37
I teach four courses, it's a product leadership self growth
4:43
and development. I blend in to it.
4:46
A lot of insights from the humanities and from philosophy
4:50
and from social sciences. There's a course on the group
4:54
dynamics and and project teams. There's a course on Project.
4:58
Negotiations, conflicts and crises.
5:00
And then there's a course on project management in diverse
5:03
cultural settings. And I'm not eating all of this
5:06
on my own there at, I bring in Talent from all over the world.
5:11
Well, impress me was to kind of very deep exploration of you.
5:16
As an individual, how that informs your style as a project
5:21
leader, and the idea of how responsible you are, as a
5:24
professional from your experience, both inside and So
5:28
the project profession. What qualities do you make your
5:33
students aware of? That makes for a successful
5:36
project leader. Well, I've sometimes said, I'm
5:40
very proud when my students that have been with us for two years.
5:45
I meet them few years laters and they say, well, I mean, the
5:49
course was very interesting, but I'm still kind of digesting all
5:54
of the things that you touched upon, and I think it kind of
5:58
Boils down to the idea that we are.
6:00
Kind of, we are cultivating them.
6:02
We are not just teaching them method to deliver project
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objectives or things like that. We are really cultivating them
6:10
to take a stand as a true professionals within Society,
6:17
within the industries within government.
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So they are not only like people who are just asked to do and
6:25
deliver but there are also people who Who can contribute
6:30
and influence and transform. Let's say how things are done.
6:35
How we think about things and what what it constitutes to be
6:42
professional and be a profession and what professionalism means
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and this has all kinds of implications for, I'm teaching
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them critical thinking ethical thinking creative thinking
6:58
Earnest. I basically teach them also
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things that are usually only taught in in clinical education.
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Meaning how to deal with complicated people and demanding
7:13
human situations? Because that's kind of very much
7:17
when things get complicated often untie cultural awareness
7:22
how to respect people who are different, who think differently
7:27
and I see when we when we are going through all of that in the
7:32
program, it's stimulating bit. For some it's also very
7:37
challenging sometimes because they want things to be just
7:40
simple. But I think was Einstein who
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said, let's make things as simple as possible but not
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simpler, you know, I think that's what that's a good
7:49
reminder, you know. Yeah.
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When I came to, thank you, because I noticed how much
7:55
construction was going on. I mean, they were just cranes.
7:58
Everywhere and there are seems like a very exciting time for
8:01
projects. Could you give us an overview of
8:03
what it's like in Reykjavik at the moment and the number of
8:07
projects happening and and the demand for project professionals
8:11
now I'm born 1966, and the Reykjavik and Iceland was very
8:19
very different 1966 or when in my childhood from what you see.
8:24
Now when I was growing up there were very few foreigners here.
8:29
The road that we drove to the south coast of Iceland that was
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a mutt wrote when I was a kid and if you see pictures from the
8:38
70s 80s from Reykjavik City, it's very Very it's a very it's
8:44
like a small town, very few people on the streets kind of.
8:47
But now it's this has transformed and it's in a major
8:53
transformation, I started Society.
8:56
So there's a, this immigration. So we need to really catch up
9:01
with regards to infrastructure. I mean, we are 380,000 people, I
9:05
think, and I think we have now two million tourists a year. 10
9:10
years ago, they were maybe like, 200,000 something, Like that.
9:14
I mean it has really taken off us modern society and so we are
9:21
kind of catching up. We are building a new house.
9:24
A new Mega project. That's the new University
9:28
hospital. They are building bridges, all
9:30
around the country made when I was a kid, the you couldn't
9:36
drive around the island because they were not pretty is
9:39
everywhere and technological infrastructures Say internet,
9:45
you have a, you have a fiber Connection in all households in
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Iceland. It's a very big island, but we
9:52
are very few. So, yeah, and power plants and
9:56
road construction, sand apartment houses.
10:01
But I remember also, before 2008, they were also a lot of
10:04
cranes. And I, then we kind of some
10:07
people said, well, hey, you should be careful if there is
10:10
like all of those construction cranes, they know something.
10:13
Is off. You know, you might be heading
10:15
for disaster, kind of a thing, but the Reykjavik city is
10:19
growing at a lot. So we really need to very strong
10:23
demand for housing here. It's a very vibrant place and
10:28
there is the many things going on.
10:31
So the demand for project professionals must be high, who
10:34
are the people in your courses? And where do they end up going?
10:38
They come from all sectors of society.
10:41
I mean, we have We have Engineers who have been building
10:45
power plants in in Iceland, aluminium smelters in Georgia or
10:51
Aunt in the Russia and in Iran. And we have people who have been
10:55
involved in geothermal Enterprises in Africa.
11:00
And in South America, we have people from an aviation, we have
11:04
Educators, Teachers, Health Care Professionals it people,
11:10
business people, if you have also actor Hours.
11:13
And now they're actually two ballerinas that are kind of
11:16
changing their careers. So on the they are very
11:19
dedicated. Make excellent material for good
11:23
product managers because they are very dedicated and very
11:27
disciplined and it's interesting to see how they work.
11:32
Do you detect a changing attitude towards project
11:36
management? It's something that is a big
11:39
profession and attractive profession to consider.
11:41
Now I kind of came into this field.
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When it was the notion of something specific called
11:50
project management or professional product management
11:55
Kind of force gaining momentum. When I, when I entered the
11:58
field, since then we have been really producing and certifying
12:06
people with the knowledge and the skills and the competence to
12:11
go out and prove themselves and to me until key and and our
12:17
programs have been absolutely in the Forefront.
12:20
And this now some other up starting to Provide education
12:25
and project management as well. But but what's happening now is
12:31
also that our students are coming back with a loaded with
12:36
experience. And so I think we are now at the
12:42
threshold of Alaska and you've New Era and product management
12:48
in Iceland where we have loads of people that know what project
12:52
management is they It see themselves as Property
12:57
Management professionals, and and now it's all its kind of
13:03
harvest time when when we are really seeing the, the the
13:09
flourishing of the profession in the, in the fields, or so to
13:14
speak, or we need to kind of also be at the Forefront.
13:21
And that's why we have been constantly being making a deal.
13:24
Judgments to the program and we are always looking for new or
13:28
exploring new opportunities. I am almost to talk to you about
13:33
something. I found fascinating when I was
13:36
in Reykjavik, which is the exposure to the Icelandic
13:39
mindset, which is very just do. It, can you can you tell us a
13:44
bit about that? It was something we talked about
13:46
a lot when I was there, but what's the phrase you have you
13:50
know, about getting stuff done? Because it is very much.
13:53
Let's just get on with it. And how does that?
13:55
How is that an advantaged when it comes to project management
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and then also what are the Advantages that need to be
14:01
counted. Yeah, well I think when when you
14:04
were here, I try to inject you with some ideas about how
14:09
brilliant and bright. And we are, I mean in many case
14:13
we are just like other people and there are certain things
14:18
that are not so maybe mature, so to speak.
14:21
I mean, we are, we are still learning.
14:24
We are sometimes not overly organized.
14:27
We are sometimes a little bit ignorant.
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We are Lil Bit, sometimes too sure about ourselves that kind
14:35
of the Islanders mentality. I mean, there is some kind of
14:39
people are, you know, greedy and, you know, people are trying
14:42
to get away with things like anywhere else I guess.
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But if we, if you look at the of the positive sides, I mean there
14:49
are few things that I think really are good when it comes to
14:54
project management. I mean, you don't need to teach
14:57
us to be Archie. I'll, I think we are very Iati.
15:00
I'll we are also very very cell tile.
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We can if we we think it's not working, it's easy for us to
15:09
turn around and explore new options.
15:13
But that might also be because we have very small and there's a
15:16
relatively much trust in like Social Capital trust in society.
15:22
It must also be informed by the environment in which you live,
15:25
even you live on volcanoes. That must inform the way you
15:28
think as well. Yeah.
15:30
I mean that's why I plan to much when we you have to be like you
15:35
have made plans, then there's an eruption and then there's a
15:38
blizzard then there is this a lot.
15:41
I mean, I was in London, London bonjour.
15:44
I think I know obviously New York and all the train system in
15:47
the UK is shut down. And I was surprised.
15:49
It didn't feel like, you know, nothing to watch.
15:52
We send our kids to school in blizzards, you know.
15:56
So we are very adjustable. We are Very flexible.
16:01
We are, we are we can we have a lot of stamina for change?
16:08
I would say we are curious. We are witty.
16:13
I think in our own way, we are relatively.
16:17
We are pretty respectful and very accommodating.
16:20
I mean we will we will always try to help everyone.
16:24
That all of those qualities can be really good in project
16:26
management and the ability to just get on with.
16:30
I think that was what impressed me as well.
16:32
That's right there phrase that you're asking about this this
16:35
that that red dust separatist because you know people might
16:39
say oh my God this is now this is going to be a this is a
16:43
disaster you know, it would be awful in this doesn't work, you
16:46
know you and we will say oh no the that path that this will be
16:51
okay, come on, that kind of thing.
16:53
We will figure it out somehow. And I think that's I mean, like,
16:59
Positive cited, its kind of optimism, but the downside is
17:05
that it's like, you know, lack of planning sometimes and, and
17:11
lack of willingness to comply to objectives or, you know, we just
17:16
want to do it our way. I mean, we are independent
17:19
people. We are like an independence.
17:21
Here means to be that that you might, it basically means that
17:26
you don't have to deal with anybody.
17:28
You know, you're just doing things.
17:29
On your own in your own way and and highly highly self-reliant.
17:35
That's right. Yeah, I'm resilient.
17:36
And I mean, I mean you're involved with to actually talk
17:38
to us a bit about the work, you do is DM the rescue service
17:41
because that must reflect an awful lot on the kind of
17:45
challenges of working in a night of living in Iceland as well.
17:50
The athletic search and rescue services are volunteer.
17:53
It's a big Association that is there like it's like clubs all
17:59
around the island. Island and we can be called out
18:03
anytime and we go out and we just do our best to accommodate
18:10
on be of help and it can be the farmers.
18:13
It can be people running working in the facing Factory.
18:16
So it can be any, Orchestra people, the carpenter the
18:20
professor whomever. So we just try our best to help
18:25
and the help is for free. That's also quite Thing, it has
18:31
been for free because we want people rather to call us rather
18:34
than to be afraid of being being persecuted or having to deal
18:40
with their insurances and things like that.
18:42
We just want to let answer that kind of equality, that social
18:48
what you say. It's a very, it's a very
18:51
beautiful thing that, you know, we are not gonna leave you
18:55
alone, we will try our best to help.
18:59
And I think that It compiles down into the project
19:01
management, you know, we we try to accommodate, we try to figure
19:05
it out, we try to all that attached to it, we will figure
19:09
it out somehow, no matter how Bleak, it becomes it really, it
19:12
will be okay. You know.
19:14
I think that's the, I would, if I was in a crisis situation at
19:17
work or in a mountain, then I definitely think I'd want.
19:20
And I slander there to tell me that everything is going to be,
19:23
all right? I mean, I'm just thinking about
19:25
the crisis that the crises that people might face a while.
19:29
Work or just that situation when everything starts to go wrong,
19:32
have you got any words of advice?
19:35
If you suddenly find yourself in a crisis situation that that you
19:39
can pass on from your work working, you know, not only
19:44
teaching on the Masters but also from dealing with rescue
19:48
situations, any advice you would pass on to people We'll have a
19:53
plan, that's very important. You should have a plan and and
19:59
you should stick to the plan. As long as you decide.
20:03
So, let's stick to plan a all the way until you decide to go
20:08
to plan B. And then, if that doesn't work,
20:12
you go to plan C. So be organized, have a plan but
20:19
also be flexible, if it doesn't work, so that is one thing I
20:25
would also say try to do what is interesting and gives.
20:31
Give you Joy, you know, rather than to you know, don't waste
20:35
your life or your talent or whatever, in something that is
20:40
miserable. So this is more general advice.
20:44
I mean, the advice you give to your students to make a
20:48
successful career in project management.
20:50
So I mean do do do what you enjoy?
20:54
So any other advice you would give for those setting out on a
20:58
project management path. Be critical in.
21:03
In what you are asked to do try to understand well what you want
21:11
to do, and when you are defining, what you want to do
21:15
and then think of it from different angles and and really
21:21
try to accumulate as many insights into it beforehand
21:29
before you start them too. Plan and then, execute your
21:33
plans. And this sometimes demands that
21:37
you look out of your convention out of your box.
21:42
So, to speak. And I do.
21:45
It also means that you try to be aware of biases, and noise, and,
21:52
and politics and all the aspects that might be influencing.
22:00
You without you realizing it. So I think that's something that
22:07
I'm trying to make people be aware of because I think a
22:10
professional has a very dire responsibility, not only to
22:16
themselves but also to the team and the organization and to
22:19
Society at large and even to Future Generations.
22:24
So, so put things into like an ethical perspective or into a
22:29
think the Beep, when you're doing things, you know, and then
22:33
all of the use, all the methods that are at your disposal
22:37
disposal in from the discipline you, their property management
22:42
is a is loaded with tools and techniques, but it's also a
22:47
philosophy of life. I would say, I mean, when you
22:50
look around and you can actually see, oh, I can look at this as a
22:53
project and there's a prototype are the supported here and And
22:58
that has some implications you you want to Define and plan and
23:03
execute and see things happen. And then you want to be able to
23:08
finish it and move on and do something new.
23:12
I think that's a very good way to look at live.
23:16
Also, in general, speak to people rather than speak about
23:20
people. You know, try to always be
23:25
encouraging rather than undermining be.
23:28
Be kind and accommodating. Be open and listen, deeply, let
23:39
others, teach you also, think of it this way.
23:43
I mean, what you give out is what you get back if you if you
23:47
are happy and and kind and you. That's what you get back and
23:54
also be assertive in the in a constructive way, something like
23:57
that. I mean it's not it's just wanted
23:59
to advise not only did Only for project management for living
24:03
life in general. So thank you.
24:05
I feel as though I've got a nice insight into the Icelandic
24:09
mindset there and into the exciting times that are
24:12
happening in Reykjavik at the moment.
24:15
Was there anything else you wanted to add?
24:18
I think the future for project management is very bright.
24:23
I think it's actually the method or the philosophy that will
24:26
prevail in the new era. That is a very living, very
24:31
Citing times. I mean, artificial intelligence
24:36
technological, autonomy Sation the international cooperation
24:43
between universities and in research something Industries
24:47
and it's very living. Very, very exciting times but we
24:52
don't know what it will mean to all of us.
24:54
And I think the profession that will be very capable of
25:00
navigating this If people do things, right is the profession
25:05
of product management because they will always be projects and
25:09
there will always be problems that need to be solved with
25:13
projects. They will always be innovations
25:18
that need to be designed and implemented.
25:22
I think I say I will do many of the cognitive skills better than
25:27
most and many of the behavioural skills.
25:29
But in essence, what does it constitute to be a human being?
25:34
And what does it constitute to be a mean to be a professional?
25:39
I think that's. That's something that we should
25:44
really are questions that we should really take to our hearts
25:48
and try to answer in a creative way.
25:54
That's a wonderful way to end our conversation today.
25:57
Thank you. How could that was?
25:59
So interesting, thank you for your time.
26:02
Thank you, too. Thanks again, take her for
26:10
joining us and don't forget to look out for more episodes of
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