Latest / The MOOD Podcast / The Allure of Untouched Landscapes: Alex Strohl's Take on Photography and Travel, E025

Transcript

The Allure of Untouched Landscapes: Alex Strohl's Take on Photography and Travel, E025 · The MOOD Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of the Mood Podcast, where I had a conversation online with Alex Stroll.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Alex is a celebrated photographer and adventurer and has made a name for himself by skillfully documenting remote landscapes and global travel experiences.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Widely recognised on platforms like Instagram and having worked with some of the biggest brands around the world, stroll's work provides a visual journey to some of the world's most far-flung destinations.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: With a keen eye for detail and a knack for storytelling, he seamlessly combines the beauty of nature with the excitement of exploration.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: In this episode, what struck me most was his honesty and sheer passion for his work.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: This clearly was what drives his every move and his creative vision in storytelling.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: We share a similar interest in human nature, and it was fun to explore some of the stories behind his captivating photographs and the fascinating places he's encountered along the way.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: So please sit back and enjoy the company of Alex Stroll.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Alex Stroll, it's an absolute pleasure and honour to meet you online.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: At least.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: I wish I was in France.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: Yes, south-east of France, In my little hut, hut cottage office that I am slowly improving.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: I'm actually building a second one.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: I just needed a place to do my work away from the main house and it's been great.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Cool, what is your work?
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Give us a kind of introduction to the audience as to, I guess, who you are, but, more importantly, kind of what you do and what you do.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm a photographer.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: I think I can be defined as one.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: I'm a photographer, I make films and I do a lot of creative direction as well.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: So I'm just a very visual person who happens to use their skills for the benefit of large companies.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: That's the high-level elevator pitch.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: And then obviously, people will ask what kind of photography do you make?
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: And then it makes sense, right, if you meet a surgeon, you ask them what kind of surgery they do.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: So I respect the question.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: So I obviously do 195% of my work outside, in the outdoors, and I do tend to gravitate towards people who work outside and who are kind of.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: I love shooting people who are busy, you know, while I photograph them athletes, farmers, craftsmen, makers all that stuff really gets me excited.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, here's my long-winded answer.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: There's no long-winded at all.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: I think you know.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: If people were to see your, I guess, online profiles and your website and Instagram and all the rest of it, it's fairly, I guess, identifiable as to what you do.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: But I'm more interested in the why and how.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: You started with photography itself.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: I presume the filmmaking came after photography, but give us an insight into that background.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so you're curious about the genesis of photography or filmmaking.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, photography.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: Let's start with photography and we'll probably move into filmmaking after.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, photography really happened.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, I've told these stories a lot.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: Photography started really by accident, where I was just looking for a way to fill my time as a teenager you know going to boarding school in the weeks and coming back in the weekends to this property in the woods that my parents decided to base at, and you know it was kind of endless when you were 14, you know it's had a motorcycle, a dirt bike and I'd go and ride through the forest, but it all felt kind of endless.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: You know, I've always been looking to look for reasons to do something.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: Why am I doing this?
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: So it started.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: I started taking photos in a quest of like, why am I riding my motorcycle through these woods?
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: And then I happened to be naturally decent at it, like I've always been a very observative, you know, observant person, and that one thing led to another.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: Really, I got really lucky with the beginning of social media and I've always wanted to.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: I always had a deep desire to connect with people.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: So photography was a way to meet people and look at other people's work, share photos.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: So I think that's what really matters to me is whether I can use it to meet people.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: You know, maybe I could have been a writer if I was any good at it, for example, but it just happens that I'm really visual and that I mean you just do it, everybody does that.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: You just follow the path of least resistance, like, well, you know, I'm naturally good at this, so why don't I just do that?
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: That's really how life goes.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: I think that's.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: I've never heard anyone actually say that, but it makes complete sense to follow the path of least resistance, because we all want an easy life and you know, if we find something that we're good at and we're well, you know, usually if you're good at it it kind of comes easy to you.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: But then what about filmmaking?
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: I mean that's an easier transition to.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: It's not laziness, though, Matt.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: It's more like you have to raise your strengths right, and life is an immediate amount of time.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: It doesn't mean you shouldn't learn new things, but you can train those new things sort of outside of the main work hours, right.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: But to me it was like pretty simple and it's like man, I love freedom and photography really gives me a lot of freedom to do the life I really want to.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: So I built everything from the ground up.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: Really, it's just one of those origin stories where you're like broke and don't know what to do.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: Then you kind of start putting pieces together and you're like this is working, it's not working.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: It's a very it's a nice activity.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: It's a nice job because you get to control a lot of the outcome from beginning to end.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: The same way that somebody builds a piece of furniture from beginning to end, you do build a shoot from beginning to end.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: That's one of the aspects of photography and the good transition into video, because video you have to learn to do the opposite and just let go and to not control the total outcome, because it takes a village to make a film.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure you talked about freedom there.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: I think that goes in with path of least resistance and absolutely not intimating that laziness has an attitude.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, that's who we are as humans.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: What does freedom look like to you?
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: Is it so much as you are your own boss but you still have to work with four clients, with clients, have a team?
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: What does freedom look like to you?
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: What is your normal day of kind of Alex is his own boss to look like?
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: Man, there is no normal day.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: I will say that, although I love the fall season because it does bring you some of those normal days where I can sort of plan it out and it happens the way I planned it from beginning to end, but those are rare.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: And the truth is, even as a business owner, you still have somebody as a boss.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: You could be your customer, your clients.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: So, sadly, unless you're completely retired, you still have a boss.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: And I like having multiple bosses though, because if you don't like one, you don't have to work with that one.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: But when you work at a company, you only have one boss, and if you don't like them, well, it's going to be a bit of a difficult year.
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: But if you can fire the clients that you don't like quote, unquote, fire, and they can fire you as well.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: No, it's fair, it's fair games, just business.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: So I do like to have multiple bosses, especially because I approach every work relationship and every relationship in general as like what can you teach me?
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: What can I learn from these people?
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: Because everybody is everybody.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: Anybody you meet on the street is going to have something to teach you.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: Right One thing they do really well, you don't.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: Maybe they make really good bread, or maybe they cook a really good risotto or whatever.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: I'm just really curious.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: So I do like to learn from clients and the more clients you have, the more you learn from them.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: Right, and it's just pretty simple.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: So it's a constant, constant quest for improvement.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: But yeah, freedom looks like to me.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: What freedom is to me is really doing what I want.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: Whenever I want to sort of answer your question, it's, it's what I've always wanted to do since I've been a little kid.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: It's like, can I have freedom of movement and of action?
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: And I was lucky enough that my parents gave me that freedom and they put a lot of trust in me and it could be out and about.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: I was growing up in Madrid and I was probably 13.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: And I was reading to skateboarding, because I spent the summer in LA at my aunt's house and I would take the take the bus to Madrid for 45 minutes from the countryside to the city to go skateboarding with friends and I might come back that night.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: I might not.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: I might just call my mom and say, hey, I'm staying for the night.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: Cool, I was trying to find there was a lot of trust.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: There was, no, not a lot of rigidity and I think that really sadly set me up for a world, you know, for a life of freedom seeking constantly Cause I was, I really had bad habits in a way.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: What bad habits did you have, for you know how did, how did that photography pursue kind of cure those bad habits?
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: Well, not bad habits in the sense that I was doing bad things.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: Well, I did have a stint of graffiti, which wasn't, which wasn't what.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: Was it my brightest time?
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: But I know I do love graffiti.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: It was just the way that I was doing.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: It was adding a lot of value to the world.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: But not all bad habits in terms that I was used to being sort of on my own things right, Like with not much control, from a young age, probably because my friends saw that they could trust me and I wasn't going to do anything really stupid.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: So that was the bad habits.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: Like then, when you get into, you start going to school and start going to high school, you like, ah, that frustration that builds from being tied to a chair all day, listening, is really what fuels, it has fueled my career to this day.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: It's like, you know, when I see my cousins like oh yeah, they're younger cousins, they're going back to school or whatever, and I'm like, oh, it's true, it's see what's September, and this is when people go back to school here, and I was like so, still relieved, I'm like God, I'm happy I'm not going back to school.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: You know that kind of feeling and that right there, that feeling of like man.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: I'm glad I'm not doing.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: That is what really fuels me every day.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: And fast forward to now, as you sat across from me, the other side of the world, but online, you know.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: Do you look back at those, I guess your past, but certainly those formative years in the photography space, or at least with that dream in mind of doing what you want to do, and now consider yourself a success compared to that, to that younger, 13, 14 year old.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: Yes, I'll tell that younger 13, 14, like, keep going, you got this.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: This is.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't do anything differently.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: Really, that's the way things go.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: I don't really look back on the past and kick myself from doing something or not doing it.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: But that's cool.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: What about?
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: You know, I try and at least impart some kind of advice, or ask our guests to impart some kind of advice to beginners.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: So you know, look at Alex Draw.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: You know you look, you look and you know for people who don't know, if, just to look at what you've done, who you've worked with, how you've grown to such a, I guess, high level within the photography arena, you know how to beginners get to that stage these days.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: You know, I know there's no one quick, easy answer, but just maybe a couple of pieces of advice from someone like yourself.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: Having learned what you've learned.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: Would you be able to kind of unpack that?
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: journey for us.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: Well, first off, matt, when I hear you say you know high level photography arena, there's one part of me that's always like but is it really right?
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: Like that's, that's the thing, that's the healthy side of, of, of that's needed right.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: It's like, well, you know, everybody has imposter syndrome.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: So this is not like false modesty, it's like really genuinely.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: I'm like don't know if I'm really that good, like I can, I can do it, I can make it happen, but but I don't know.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: That it's you know, I should be here talking with you.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: But then the other part is like well, I guess, yeah, people want to hear it.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: So that's probably what I'll tell.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: That's what I tell beginners is is that every no, it doesn't matter who you look up to in photography or whatever, in whatever space you look at, just know that they are also unsure of themselves and they're not sure if what they're doing is right or wrong, because they're figuring it out as they go.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: So just keep that in mind.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: It's almost when you go do you go cycling with people who are way better cyclists than you, way stronger?
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: Well, it kind of helps me to know that, hey, they're all suffering as well, you know, in this really long uphill.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: We're all like huffing and puffing and we're all suffering, and that's that, to me, brings me relief.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: So I hope that brings them relief as well.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: I was like well, just know that these guys are whoever you're looking up to.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: They're figuring it out.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: They're also struggling.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: They don't know if what they're doing is right or wrong.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: They're just in a living, right.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: They're focusing on efforts, not on the results.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: So that is probably the biggest thing that I've learned.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: There's also this interesting.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: I saw this video somewhere that was an interview of somebody who built a very large business and who was, but this person was in their 60s.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: Maybe you've seen it.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: It's like when you're 20, the answer was like well, when you're 20, you think that you're so worried about what people think of you, right?
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: And then when you're 40, you don't really care anymore and when you're 60, you realize that no one was looking.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: That, to me, is the best thing to remember is like you know what you do, think people are looking at what you're doing, but they really aren't, and there's not even worth not caring about it because it doesn't even exist.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: That's all in your head, right?
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: These are all external conditions, not internal, so that's what I would leave our beginners with.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: I talk about this all the time just with friends, not even about photography, but being a 40-year-old myself actually when I got to 30, I really stopped caring what people think.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: I was a bit of an asshole back then, so I wouldn't want to copy that.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: I will be covering assholes.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: You know, I think, yeah, I think that you've touched upon.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of things that I'm going to kind of get into in a minute.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: But we've talked about social media already.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, that is almost the problem with today's digital world.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: Right, Photography or not, you look at the pictures on Instagram, whether it's a photographer or an influencer or just a normal person posting some cool shit of them on holiday, right, yeah, they're only posting the best stuff.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: So you look at that and it's not real.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: But it's easy for the human brain because we're not wired to think any other way.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: Look at it and go I want to be like that, Right, or that guy is doing well, that girl is doing well, whatever, oh yeah.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: And no one cares.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: No one cares You're the only one that cares about that and so it's easy to look at an Alex Stroll or you know doing photography now someone like yourself or other people with millions of followers.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: Or you know working with big brands and going on cool trips and doing cool YouTube videos.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: It's very easy for people to go I'm either never going to get there or I want to be like that.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: How do I do it?
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: Or it can be an inspiration, or it can also be a kind of crush, totally.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: So I think that's a really good lesson for beginners to know straight away, especially in today's social media dominated world.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you have to remember.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: You're looking at somebody's highlight reel, right?
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: And that's why you brought up YouTube and enjoy the rare videos I make on YouTube.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: I enjoy showing the real deal kind of thing like putting the veneer, you know, taking the veneer away and showing it like it really is.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: That's where the videos get longer and longer every time, just so, I don't know, it makes people feel a little better.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you got to remember these.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: Like you said, everyone's human and whether you're seeing someone's highlight reel or not, there's the human behind that who's been through struggles, who's got the same fears, who's got the same worries, who's got the same problems in their life as everyone else.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: You know that no one's different.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: But I think that's a great thing about photography and I'm hoping people do it more and more.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: I like to show behind the scenes just because anyone can do this.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: It's not like you know anyone's special, it's.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: You know everyone has a different kind of view on what they're doing.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: Some may work harder than others and some may get a bit of luck compared to others, or whatever.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: But you know, and showing that behind the scenes, showing that raw process right, is important because you know, otherwise there's no connection, I don't think, between the person you're looking up to and yourself oh, actually, I can do this as well.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: Or at the end of the day, it could just be entertainment and information that we can pass on, right?
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: I will say that sometimes people get confused at all.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: They will look at I don't know Sebastián Salgado, you know Salgado, a new book or whatever, and they'll be thinking, man, I'm going to make a simple, just like Salgado, you know, and I sort of apply the same principles that somebody, like somebody as you know, as known as Salgado, will do, and then it's not going to work for them, right?
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: So you got to be careful to what principles you apply, right, before you go and start making a print sale.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: Excuse me, then nobody buys your prints.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: So there is some of that, but I'll say that the biggest problem really is the lack of vision and photography, right, like what's really important, you know, once you've sort of mastered the little skill-spart, it's like having a vision.
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: I think that's what really is the defining factor and will make it or not make it.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: Taste and vision?
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, I always.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I always split the photography kind of, or the photographer into two types of skill sets and if you have both you end up being pretty good photographer.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: One is just technical know-how that Amarghe can learn, and the other one is that artistic vision and creation and that artistic, I guess, touch message, story, all of the kind of intangible parts.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: Why do you think there is a lack of vision these days in photography?
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm sure that it's not these days.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: It's just that there's more of us now and then you see everybody's work.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: So there's just more work and you see more of it.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: So that's why it feels like there is more.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: But I'm sure if you're starting photography in the 1950s and had no vision, it would have been just as problematic as it is now.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: But people in the 1950s probably picked up a camera for motives that were different, because there was no outlet for it.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: It was more like a hobbyist thing that you do on your own and the cost was so expensive that you better have a plan, because it's so expensive to shoot photos and get them developed.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: So now the barriers of entry are removed, which is great.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: People are on a level playing playing field with laptops and a camera.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: So then obviously what shines now is that, well, access is there, but then there's nothing to show right, these photos are hollow.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: There is just no real message.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: So how do you count to that?
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: What is your process when you're wanting to tell a story, create a?
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: You have to get your inspiration.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: You need to get inspiration.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: You know a photographer who doesn't look at other people's work.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: That's probably a lie.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: They tell you that it's just an inspiration.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: So if you take your stuff from the same cesspool that everybody does, then it's just garbage in, garbage out, not adding any value.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: But if you're taking your inspiration from places that nobody does, and if there's quality on top of that to criteria, take it from somewhere that people don't look at and then to make sure that's a good source, right, it's also bad sources that people don't look at Right.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: Two things that you have to consider.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: And can I bring some repeat?
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: So I could be finding some obscure blog that nobody knows, some blog spot that hasn't been updated for years but it has really cool inspiration.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: And then learning about the masters of photography through their books, the Avedons and the there's so many.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: And also going to museums and seeking inspiration in movies and all these places that your typical photographer isn't really looking at.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: And I would say typical photographer?
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: There's no typical photographer, but I would say that the low hanging fruit is looking at photos on Instagram and taking your inspiration from them.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: So if you do that, then it's going to be tough to show a vision, so better start taking your inspiration from somewhere else, as far as you can, from the source of social media.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: Totally agree and wise words.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: I hope everyone can listen to that.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: It's just so easy for people these days to live their life through social media.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: And what is your kind of feeling with social media in general?
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: I know you have a big following and you consistently post on there, so I know you still use it.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: How do you feel about it now, back then, and how it's going to affect photography in the future?
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, social media.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: I mean I'm really thankful for it.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: It really built my career.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: It's really propelled everything I could have trend for and made a lot of things happen.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: So it's kind of hard to batmouth it.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: It seems like our habits are not as very healthy Appreciate.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: So I think that we'll look in 20 years and look at what we're doing now.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: And Prometheanology is the same way that we look at food in the 90s with the advent of microbial food and fast food and the way we're doing it and control it.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: So I think we'll look at it the same way like man 2020, 2020 something.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: What are we doing?
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: That's probably going to be like a dark age when we look back.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: So for me, the future is bright.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: People are realizing it.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: Social media is good, but it definitely is really up to the user and what's evil is the way that it's built.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: That's the way to make you addicted.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: I mean all things that we know.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: It's just built to be addictive and I think for adults it's fine, but for kids and teenagers it seems to be pretty tragic.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: I don't have our daughters too young still to even have a phone.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: So I just am happy that she's born now, because I feel like by the time she'll have a phone in 10 years or whatever she'll things will have gotten much better for her.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: So right now, I'm thinking about kids using social media right now and it's just saddens me because we didn't have that.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: We didn't have that and I'm really happy we didn't have it.
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: Honestly, it's good to be in touch with your buddies on the phone, but it's so much better to just go ride your bike and go see them and go play soccer, right.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: So it's complicated.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: It is complicated.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: I don't think there's necessarily it's not a binary discussion, is it?
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: It's nice to be.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: I am grateful for being in that same generation where we can remember what life was like without social media and without smartphones.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, it was I kind of, although I'm very I love using my phone.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: Obviously it's a necessary part of pretty much everyone's daily life now.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: Well, necessary is probably a strong word, but it's an essential part to do business and to kind of get closer to people.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: But it's a part of me which is we were back where we were and, like you said you were talking earlier, when you go for a bike ride and you get to your friend's house, call your mom saying mom, I'm going to stay here tonight or I'm not coming back, it's like People didn't worry as much.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: Right, there wasn't so much paranoia there wasn't so much anxiety.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: It's just no way to keep tabs on me.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, advice with that.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: When you're speaking to beginners, what do you tell them in terms of social media People obviously get very focused on I need to grow, I need to grow.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: And a kind of follow-up question from that is how much business do you kind of really get from a large social media following?
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: You do, you do.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: Okay, about 50% you do.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: It's about 50% of it is inbound through people who see your work.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: So it's a big part.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: I think it's possible to do it without it.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: You just have to hustle and work as hard than anybody else.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: Whatever I host workshop in person, there's usually up to 10 people and sort of the.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: The surgeon's major speak at the beginning is, like you know, only one in your group has what it takes.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: Really one out of ten has what it takes to really become a full-time professional photographer.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: Some people here you know, some of you guys, have really good job as engineers at tech companies and all those things, and if you like your job, you should probably keep it.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: But if you really have the burning passion, you should go for it.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: But just know that it's not for everybody.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: You know being a freelancer is tough, right.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: So I think it's really about outworking everybody else.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: If you can't outsmart them at this, you cannot work them.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: That's what I did, at least, but not because I felt like I had to is like there's nothing else I would rather do then Move the needle.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: That was that.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: That is still to this day.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: It really gets me excited is to get to work and and build things right.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: So if you're that kind of person who you know, I don't have time to watch Netflix or anything like that, so I really it's hard for me to sit and watch something because I'm like man, I could be creating something.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, if you can.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: If you're that kind of person who always wants to build things, then who can never really get enough of just work because you're ambitious, right, like it just in is just the way my brain's wired.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: I'm just ambitious.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: So I don't know, I don't have another mode.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: I don't really do holidays, it's just I'm always thinking so if you're that person, that is good for you, you should go and then you pursue a freelance career and whatever you'd like, you'd be good at it.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: But if that's not you, if you just enjoy Doing you know more relaxed, paced, then probably keep your job.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: That's really why I shared with these guys.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: It's really honest.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: You know I want, then I want to be real with them.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: I don't want them to waste time.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: That's.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: That's pretty valuable.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: What, where, where does your ambition come from?
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: You know, if it's, if ambition is classified as guess a good word, then you know why.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: Why do you think you're so ambitious?
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: What?
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: Where does that stem from?
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: I think I started reading about.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: All these business and self-help books when I was really really, really really young, okay, and all those, all those books cultivate a, you know, sort of a desire for improvement.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: So from a young age I've always been interested in improving at something, whether it was BMX or skateboarding or whatever I was doing at the time.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: I think that was the flavor of the of the year.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: I was really into improving it.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: So I don't think there was a reason.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: The point was just to improve it.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that to me was it's good, because then you know, you can show you tricks off and things like that, like you can.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: So Ambition probably, I Think at the root of it, as usual, is just it's because it enables me to have freedom.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: Right, ambitions equals freedom for me.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: Ambition, because it's a freedom to do, to pursue the things they want to pursue Thanks to ambition.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: So I, ambition is a fuel and that is fueled well, that fuels this, this life that I want to have.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: So it's, I think it's all connected, right.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's also.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: It sounds like with you it's almost a Self-fulfilling prophecy that you're always, even when you achieve one thing and get what you want, you're still ambitious to do the next thing and improve, and more and more.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: Is that a fair assumption?
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: It's you know when is enough enough, or is it just literally the process that you enjoy so much?
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: I love the process, really process oriented, and If I didn't have these goals and these things I want to do, then I don't think I would get out of bed.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's just a trick For me to go do things like well, all right, we've done this, let's move on to the next level.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: What's the next thing we're gonna do?
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's a family thing.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: None of us here out of the people in my family can really sit still.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: Even my dad, who's 85 now, still wakes up every day and goes to work on on the land and cut trees, and Although he works for four to five hours a day, but it's physical work, you know, you're carrying chainsaws, moving logs and and cutting branches, and he does that Every single day of the.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: There is no Christmas Day.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: There's so pretty means Christmas Day.
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm still going out and working.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: So I think that's just the way we are, is just we just love doing those things that we're passionate or interested in and it just feels like.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: It just feels like it's the only thing we're here to do.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: Right, it's our mission.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: Same with my brother we're always doing stuff.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if people don't have that innate Drive.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: I mean, for me it's and you touched upon earlier, it's building things.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: I love the process of like creating something when I get a finish you know there's talk about photography if I get a finished Photographer, okay, that's good.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, next, what's the next kind of thing?
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, that that end result is not as satisfying for me as the process and that kind of expectation, dopamine hit of.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: You know that the end result, the product, what, what do I get at this?
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: And then it's next the next.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: If people don't have that, oh, may not be able to identify that trait in themselves.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: Do you think you know career and photography is, is, I guess, possible?
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: I know you're talking about the people in your workshops, it's, he is difficult to.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: I guess you have to be really honest with yourself, right, I am.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: I really cut out for this.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: Do I really anticipate it to be 16 hour days, seven days a week, just a landed job, right?
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: I think kind of getting getting newbies into that frame of mind is quite difficult.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: But, you know, tell us about your experiences with, I guess, identify that people and and are motivating them, right, you know it's interesting.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: It makes me think of last winter.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm in my mid-30s and I decided to get better.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: I'm freestyle skiing.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: You know jumps and tricks.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: So I started working with this coach in Montana and you know whenever I would try to do really great guy Daner, and whenever I wouldn't land my trick or I wouldn't do the move correctly, you know I'd go back like Daner, what happened and I did everything.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: You know that we said I was gonna do and his answer is usually very stoic and he would just look at me and say, alex, you just didn't want it bad enough.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: And I think that that to me it sounds simple if you see, like, yeah, easy answer, but when you think about it it has a lot of.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: It brings a lot of truth in general in life, right, like maybe you didn't want that bad enough, right, maybe you didn't.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: Just and it's true, you know whenever I wouldn't land those tricks, maybe because I was maybe afraid of the outcome of falling, going too far, too fast, overdoing something.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: So you have these things in your head and then you don't want it bad enough because you're concerned about the results.
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: So I'd say that's the biggest thing is do you really want to do this thing, and if you do, then you're gonna find every possible way, and I think the ones who don't is because I don't want it bad enough.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: It's as simple as that.
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: There's no other outcome for me.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: There's no other thing I'm gonna pursue.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: If I'm not making photos or just building good direction with board stacks, then what am I gonna do?
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: Right, it's the only thing I can do.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: So it's not like.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: This is another plan.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: There's no planning.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which is both exciting and scary, I guess, at the same time.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: But you must get to a level and go.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: Okay, you know I'm good enough, or at least I've proven to myself enough that I can do this and therefore I don't need to panic so much that there isn't a plan B or where the next job is gonna come from right, trust it, have faith in your own, your own proven track record, I guess yeah, yeah, where does your new inspiration come from?
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: I mean, you've been doing it for so many years.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: You've done a lot of projects, a lot of jobs, a lot of personal stuff, personal projects.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: You know, do you ever get that kind of writer's block, essentially like where am I gonna go next?
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: What am I gonna do next?
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we all do.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: That's normal.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: I find that that happens once a year.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: But I find that the most refreshing projects I go on are like trues of projects.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: I think trues and offices have gotten really good at building these trips for people like me, for photographers, in a sense that it's really they take a lot of cues from you.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: Take the example of the video.
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: I just put a new video on YouTube that's about Lamar, northern region of France.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, that a few people go to.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: And when these guys reached out a year ago about this concept of like we want you to come here, you in the worst possible season, in the storm season in the end of November Okay, cool, already, there's something interesting there, right.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: And then after that, I've done enough trues and projects to know that it's a bit shallow.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: Sometimes Most of the time you just gonna go see nice places and leave.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: You've never really been there.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: So it's like this time I really wanna connect with a lot of different people because I think that what makes a destination although this sounds cheesy, but it's true what makes a destination is the people there.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: So who do I meet?
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: So I really press them for connections to farmers and just people who lived off the land, who have a story to tell a different point of view.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: Athletes who live there, who've decided to live there, although it's hard for their sport.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: Right, if you're a mountain bike athlete, my mosh is really doesn't have a lot of mountains.
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: Right, you need downhills if you're an NTV athlete.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: So I was really interested in what made all these people just gonna stick around because the weather is so terrible.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: That's why you're here, there.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: So I find that these kind of projects, where I can, that's what's most inspiring to me.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: That's where the inspiration comes from.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: Is in sort of another thing, this perspective shift right, like what's an unexpected thing I can bring to this project?
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: Well, let's meet the people who decide to be there against all odds and when the weather is not cooperating.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: That is my form of inspiration is bringing this simple idea like what if?
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: Or wouldn't it be cool if you know?
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: Insert a question there.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd love it.
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: I have something in common with that.
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: I guess I always, as a portrait of Toro, try and uncover the lesser known people that you know, that I don't know anything about, or I think other people don't know anything about, and that whole process and getting to know them in the process is the most important part.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: And I totally agree with you.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: And people really do make the place, they make the culture, they shape the environment, they shape the narrative of that place and fit in with whatever environment or conditions they have.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: So I think that's really important for people to understand who are into travel.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: You know, it's not about going to a place and getting a few shots for Instagram.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: It's about really meeting the people, learning about who they are and why they're there and what generational history they have, what cultural practices they have and what language they speak just all of that right.
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: It's just fascinating.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if you can make the time.
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: I mean it takes time.
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: I don't think you can.
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: It's not your typical trick, but I will say that what really moves me is photographing places where not the places where people influence the landscape, but the other way around.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: You know, I wanna go to places where the landscape influences people, and usually that's found when the landscape and the conditions, the weather, are pretty bad.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what really interests me.
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: So that's my form of inspiration, is thinking about it that way, Give us an insight into projects like tourism, company projects who hire you to go and do whatever right, Just give us an insight into what that's like and what kind of things they ask you to do, what your process is when you're doing those types of jobs.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, let's keep digging on.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: The example of what I'm most willing to promote off-season travel.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: Because a lot of destinations have this situation, this problem, where they're really busy in the high season maybe that's winter, maybe that's summer, depending on where they are but the shoulder season is just dead.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: So they're all trying to promote shoulder season travel.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: But there's a reason shoulder season travel is shoulder season travel, you see, because the weather isn't favorable, it's just harder.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: So they were like we're gonna promote off-season travel and what's really cool is the storms, big Atlantic storms can out, wild the landscape, it's like cool, all right, so that's the concept.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: Then let's build an idea.
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: So they knew they wanted to make a film, but sort of my journey there cool.
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: So that's actually how the whole project started is because the film crew who was proposing that project you know, they knew my work and they brought it to the client.
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: Sometimes that's the way it works networking Today's guy called Captain Yvon, that's their studio brought me the idea like, hey, wanna do this film for La Mosche.
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: They wanna do it about off-speed, about weather travel, off-season.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: Do you wanna be in it?
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, sure.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: So once we get through that, then we have to come up with the where the concept.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, come up with the itch and hurry, so the client will have some highlights, some things they wanna show, right, like the sort of the base this is this base and travel and mid-range.
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: Their base is there.
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: Is there their highlight locations?
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: Like they're so beautiful, like whatever it would be, like the big cliffs they have there and the Moschal Michel, like this map, they are very famous place.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: So once we go to, yeah, yeah, so once we do these two things, then what's next?
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: This is where I come into place, right, and like, all, right, we have a few pieces there, we have sprinkles, one, you know, one every two days of your highlights.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: And what do we do with the remaining eight days?
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: So this is where we start talking about.
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: Well, here's the people I wanna meet.
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: Man, they will submit a list of all the people.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: Sometimes the farmers don't have websites, right, but now we have a few photos.
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: This is a person who does this organic farmer.
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: This is this guy's interesting.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: Luke has a coffee shop out of a two CV and he posts up at the Moschal Michel viewpoint and makes coffee for people.
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: So all these things I just request for as broad as I can, offer a list of people to meet and then from there we narrow it down to the good ones.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: We might even have talks with those people, like interviews in advance, like a phone call, like just tell me about what we need to do and then if it sounds good then we'll agree to the meeting, kind of thing.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: And then, once you have those your talent locations in place, your subjects and your locations in place, then the client does an engineering and they book your hotels and book your flights, and then you show up.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: And then so to carry on about, kind of when you're on location, how does that work?
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: What is your personal kind of process with that?
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: Well, usually you're jet lagged, so you really hit the ground running.
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: You show up jet lag like all right, let's go.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: So you just have to know yourself.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: I think it's important to sort of know your body.
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: If you know that jet lag is tough on you, then tell the client you'll need to fly in two days before.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: Right, right, right, you control those things.
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: I'm really happy to start working right away and feel pretty energized anyways.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: So we'll just, we'll just carry up and we start going.
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: And this is when reality hits is because you've planned all these things.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: We were gonna do, for example, for La Mosch.
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: We were gonna do this little fixed wing flight over the Mosch-Anichelle at sunset.
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: Cool, that was gonna, you know, to shoot very unique views that are hard to get, because you can't fly drones there, thankfully.
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: But guess what?
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: It was storm season, so that day was raining and too windy to take off, all right.
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: So what do we do then?
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: You start moving pieces around, right, cause, like Mike Tyson said so wisely, everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: So you gotta get punched in the face for sure.
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: So then you need to have backups E2.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: I mean, it really depends what kind of trip you wanna have for me.
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: I really wanna have a trip that I enjoy.
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: Not everybody, not every photographer, wants to enjoy their trip.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: Some of them just wanna get it done and leave, and that's good too.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: I'd rather spend a little more time on the ground, but really enjoy, have a good time with the people that are there, have good food, good coffees.
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: So from the get go we just gotta let the client know that we can't get as much done in a day because we actually wanna enjoy ourselves.
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: So I think that comes with experience and time and be able to tell that to the client with a straight face, like we're gonna need another one in another day and a half because we actually would like to think about what we're doing and not just rush through it.
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: We need a weather day.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: So then you show up to the locations let's say you meeting the farmer, show up in the morning and what's important is to create rapport right, cause all these people you might have talked to them, you might have not.
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: They might not even know who the fuck you are.
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: And like, who's this guy showing up on my farm right With this film crew?
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: So then you have 30 seconds to create rapport and set up the mood for the day, and that's I mean, that's obviously.
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: That's where it's important to be interested in people, cause the truth, if you're genuine, it kinda has a good ring to it.
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: If you're genuine, people can tell.
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: So I usually explain what I'm here for and what I'm interested in, what parts of I'm interested in the farm, and then I ask them to give me a walk through of what they do in a day.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: Well, maybe I do the carrots now, cause carrots are in season.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: And then I have this cool, interesting tractor that's built, that's electric, you know, and then we're, oh, cool, cool, cool.
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: So some things are.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: We're kind of playing jazz.
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: At that point with the film crew we're like, all right, cool, cool, cool.
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: Well, he's got this tractor, he's riding.
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: Now maybe do the tractor first in the shed and then we go out into the fields to do the carrots when, hopefully, the rain stops.
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: Then you just play jazz.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: At that point You're doing documentary work.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: So there's no tight production like that.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: It's really fun, really fun.
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: There's kind of like a loose, loose structure, a loose plan, and then there's enough room for improvisation and plan Bs and plan Cs Sounds ideal.
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, with tourism work, with tourism work, enjoy that.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, very different from commercial shoots, where everything is band-bag-bag and everything is kind of spilling for.
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: But, yeah, with tourism, that's the ones that I find the most refreshing.
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what's your favorite output of your work?
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: Is it, you know?
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: Do you?
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: I know you've doubled in books and obviously have a big online presence?
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: What else you know?
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: Do you get into things like NFTs prints?
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: you know, yeah, it sounds old fashioned, but my favorite output is books.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: I don't do enough of them, but that's really what I enjoy, just because I enjoy looking at books myself.
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: I do like going to C-shows and galleries, but it's not something that you can do every day, but you can look at a book every day, so I'd say that's my favorite output.
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's been some NFT action back in 2020, 2021, maybe it's been a while.
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think one of the few questions what about?
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: Was it about NFTs?
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: And I don't really know.
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: You know I don't really keep tabs on that kind of technological advancements.
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: You just know that what I need to know about AI right now, yeah, but for NFTs, you know, I'm not sure what the future is.
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: I have really really no business talking about it.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: I just enjoy the idea that people can own work and I like the commission structure of it, like when because when somebody bought a painting that was the end of the commission.
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: So I like the idea of NFTs, where the royalties get shared with the new owners but still the artist receives a commission.
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: I think that's a great way of thinking.
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you mentioned AI.
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: You know I don't want to just kind of I don't want to kind of sit too long with it, but I guess it's always a hot topic with photographers these days.
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: Do you give it much attention?
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: And I know you said you kind of have to at least recognize the impact of it how do you feel about it?
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: What you know, what do you think is going to happen with photography moving forward?
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, honestly, I give it attention as an investor.
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: Because anything that's hot means, yeah, anything that's hot.
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, when Microsoft starts investing in AI and then open AI is the leader and then all the other companies are looking for a solution because open AI is getting too expensive, that's where I'm like, oh interesting, there's a gap to be filled, somebody's going to fill it and whoever gets on board with that is going to win.
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: So I get it on board with it.
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: More as an investor than a photographer, I learned to do also this AI moves on Photoshop before there was even Lightroom, like the retouching and moving things.
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: So I do still find that I can do a better job at it than AI can when it comes down to removing stuff or making background.
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: But if you have no idea how to do it, then yeah, of course, ai is great.
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: It makes it easy for everybody, for you know, in that sense of sort of the editing sense, I do like to hit the Lightroom buttons to see what the auto does and the AI generated, and those reduction is useful.
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: All those know as good as Tophaz.
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I think it's very useful in general for the industry.
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: I don't worry about AI taking my job or things like that.
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: That's like the hot question what are you going to do when people don't buy photos and just use AI?
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: But the thing is with AI is that you still need an art director running the AI.
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: You know prompting, right?
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: I mean, now there's professional prompters, but you still need somebody running that prompt because AI has no taste.
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: It doesn't know taste.
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's.
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: I mean it's an impossible question to answer for a start because no one knows what's going to happen.
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, I hope photography isn't just still down into just prompting.
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: But you know, it may be in some of the subsections of photography but yeah.
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: I don't see it being a catastrophic.
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: I still think you'll have people who want to see a book and hold a book in their hands and you have other people who just want to use a nice camera in their hands and shoot it because it makes them feel like a photographer and makes them feel good.
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: So I don't see that going away.
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, film photography is still around and you know that's analogous to, I guess, what's the threat that AI poses.
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: But moving on, I'm going to finish this conversation with kind of a tradition on this show it's a previous guest to usually write a question for the next guest, not knowing who they are.
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: So I wanted to ask you that at the end and then kind of offer I'll get you to at least either email me or you can tell me a question for the next guest.
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: But the question for you is why do you think people follow you and your work?
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: And so the why questions these are always hot.
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: I think I'd like to think and I don't know.
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: I can't put words in people's mouth, but I do think it's because I don't take myself too seriously, pretty transparent, and I like to make things approachable.
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: I've always been about removing barriers, you know.
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: So whatever I do, I try to make it seem approachable for people, because the last thing I want to do is people have FOMO when I look at my thing and I'd rather have them be automated when I look at my work.
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, cool, that's how you do it, or less what it is, or that's something I could do.
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: So that's really my message.
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: Cool and that comes across.
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, I haven't followed you for too long maybe six months I think but I love your content, mainly because of that lightheartedness and you can tell you have a sense of humor, you don't take it too seriously, you really enjoy what you do and I think that's really important for anyone who's starting out is just try your best.
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: It's really difficult, especially when it's not trying your best not to chase the dollar.
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: Try and do it for the right reasons.
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: But if you can just enjoy the process and have passion for that process, then the rest will come.
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: But that certainly comes through in what you put out there.
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: So thank you for that, yeah it's definitely inspiration.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: Just want to add that, listen, you can fake it for a year or two, but at some point the real use is going to come out.
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: So why don't you start off by being you from the beginning, that you don't have to pretend you're, so what else two years down the road?
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: So I'd say, because you get tired of pretending to be something else or something else, so might as well just be you, and then people can like you or not like you.
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: There's so many people on earth that it's fine If some don't like you.
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: And yeah, obviously, like you said, enjoy the process and not chasing the dollar.
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, you have to know that.
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: But it's really your personal work that gets you hired, not the other way around.
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: So if you can put out personal work every year, at least one bit of it, that's really good, and then you're doing already 80% of it.
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much If you could do me a favor just at the end.
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just leave it open.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: But yeah, thank you so much for joining.
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry about the few technical issues we had, but I loved a little conversation and I really hope we can do it again sometime, if not in person.
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: So thank you again.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: It's an absolute inspiration talking to you.
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: Thanks, man, thanks for taking the time.
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: All right, take care, Alex.
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Bye man.