Latest / The Parent Tap / Stopping "The Escalation Trap" & Navigating Meltdowns with Dr. Russell

Transcript

Stopping "The Escalation Trap" & Navigating Meltdowns with Dr. Russell · The Parent Tap

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's late at night, the medication has worn off, the expensive tutoring didn't stick, and you are locked in an argument with a kid who wants to do the work, but physically cannot force their brain to start.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Mainstream parenting advice tells you to try a gentler approach, offer rewards, or demand compliance.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: But motivation completely disintegrates when a child locks the underlying systems to execute.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: Today's guest doesn't deal in soft theories.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: She is Noreen Russell, PhD founder of Russell Coaching, the largest student coaching practice in the United States.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: She specializes in the missing layer, the actual skill building kids need to function under pressure.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Ryan.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: This is the parent hop.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: The threats are real.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Defend the kids.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: My kids are going to start kindergarten next month.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: One of them.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I was a teacher, so I have a lot of a little bit of, you know, background knowledge on the classroom and things like that.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that there's always a threat.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: And we're talking about, you know, we're we're talking about potentially like what neurodivergent students, right?
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: So like there's gonna be potential issues there with bullying or, you know, seclusion or uh, you know, just any of the, you know, just the social aspect of of that, right?
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: With with with how I mean it was tough enough for me to fit in what uh going to a new school in middle school.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: I remember when I was I was uh eighth grader.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: I went from a very small Christian school in seventh grade, 100 people maybe in the in the grade at most, probably like less than that, honestly, to like a big middle school where it was like 500 kids plus and just an eighth grade.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: And like I knew nobody, and like I was sitting at the lunch table myself the first day and on the bus by myself, and I remember thinking like that is the worst feeling in the world.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I can't imagine kids that have something that society defines as different, you know what I mean?
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then them kind of going about their daily lives and not feeling that or even potentially worse than that, you know, on a normal basis.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I mean, I I think that that could fit.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, is that kind of what you're never imply that teachers were the threat, you know, or that people are the threat.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's that situation can be threatening and the student can react like it's a threat, you know.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, yeah.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the school aspect first, the okay, so my kid, like every day I pick her up at daycare, she's four, she's gonna head into kindergarten next month.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm always like, how is school today?
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and then like I'm asking all these questions, and I feel like it's it's coming out at more of an interrogation angle.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like kids shut down with that.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: I remember myself as a kid, right?
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: Mom asked, How was school today?
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: Good.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: What'd you learn?
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that kind of thing.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like you get nothing out of it, and it's just the kid shuts down.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, like, what you know, like what can we replace with these check-ins, like in terms of like making sure that we're informed what the kids are, you know, kind of learning from school, what's going on at school, if any um behavior, you know, is maybe happening that that that shouldn't be happening, you know what I mean, in terms of bullying or in terms of uh, you know, just maybe like socialization issues that they're having at school, or my god, even today and age, you know, with the with the with the teachers that that are always on the news now about there was two in my district, or I wouldn't say my district, but my the district my kid's gonna go to next month, where they were literally arrested for sexual contact with with the teenager, two two women, uh female teachers, and they had the FBI raid their like it was it's like legit like crazy stuff.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: Two teachers from the same high school, they had FBI and they're raiding it, the same school district my my kids are gonna go to.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, if that's not a threat, right?
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's I know it's high school, but still like these teachers are.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've even seen some as young as like fifth grade where they're having relationships with with kids.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: So, how do we get them to kind of open up to us so we're aware of everything that's going on in their lives and not getting them to shut down and giving us those, giving us those one-word answers?
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think the big shift that we can make there as parents is to move from that completely open-ended how was school today, to just switch it to highs and lows.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: Be more specific and more concrete.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: What's one moment at school today where you felt happy?
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it doesn't have to be about what you learned or what you did or, you know, how the work went, but what was one moment at school today that you felt happy?
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then ask, you know, the matching question.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: What's one moment from school today where maybe you didn't feel so good or you felt sad?
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that helps kids narrow in on what went well and what didn't go so well.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it completely changes the conversation from a place where the kid feels like, oh, this is the same old boring question that I get asked every day.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: How was school?
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I have to put all the work in to figure out what an answer is.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, as parents, let's just switch the question.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: What went well today?
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: What were you happy about?
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what's a moment that made you smile today?
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: And what's something that didn't go so well?
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: And your kids are, you mentioned, I think they're older, right?
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like how can you give us a little bit of background on them and you know, like what they're up to now?
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, sure.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: Mine are young adults now.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: I have a 16-year-old and an 18-year-old.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: And we went through lots and lots of different challenges when it came to school.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: We started in public school, we did public school, private school, charter school, online school.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: They both ended up doing online school for middle school and high school, and then in high school did a program that in Florida we refer to as dual enrollment, where you're doing some high school classes and some college classes.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, one of the things that, you know, only time can give you is perspective, right?
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: And when I think back on how much I worry, I think, okay, yeah, it was worth it, right?
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like the worry made you fight for the best stuff for your kids.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: But when I look back now, I think, gosh, like so much stress over like school and what was the best environment for them and what was the least restrictive environment.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: And how could I make sure they were actually getting a good education?
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: And frankly, I think school is exhausting for both kids and parents.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: So mine are 16 and 18, my 18-year-old will be a full-time college student this fall.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: My daughter is doing dual enrollment, and they're both doing really well.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: But it has been a ton of work.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: They're both neurodiverse.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I've had to really figure out at each step and for each stage what's gonna work for them individually and give myself permission to make those individual decisions and not kind of follow the crowd or do what most people in our neighborhood or our social group were doing.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: It was hard.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: And man, I fall into that too, where it's like someone tells you, do this, do that, and you're like, well, that might work for you and your family, but you know, you have different needs, especially with neurodiverse children.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I have a neurodiverse four-year-old, gonna be five.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: And and so I know just from that aspect, like there's a lot of misunderstandings there.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: And and what works for someone else's family is great, but it probably won't work for mine.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like, yeah, this is why I love having the experts on.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so could you like elaborate a little bit more on what those worries were for your for your teenagers in that in that era when they were in high school?
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what was your biggest worries?
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: And like, do you feel like it, you know, in retrospect, maybe you did worry too much, or or is there certain areas you didn't worry enough about?
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: Middle school was when we made our big transition from bricks and mortar school to online school.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: So at that point, I think all I worried about during those years was am I making the right choice?
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: What are the pros and cons?
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: Are my kids happy?
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: Would they be better in a bricks and mortar school?
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like weighing the pros and cons of the big decision of doing online.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I ultimately comforted myself with saying, you know what?
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: People sometimes can say, and for some people this might be true, you know, they're missing out on the socialization part of school.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: But ultimately, Ryan, what I ended up saying to myself is who needs the socialization of middle school, right?
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, is that a healthy, happy place to be in?
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, we kind of skipped school socialization.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: We did a ton of enrichments and camps during the summer, places where I felt like they would thrive that were based on their interests, where, you know, the groups were smaller, the teachers or camp counselors were really invested.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what I worried about in middle school.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then when they got to high school, it's interesting.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: We came full circle.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: I came back to are they getting a good education?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: The same way I worried about K through two.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, okay, are we getting all of the basics that we need when it comes to, you know, English one, two, three, four?
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: Are we getting algebra, geometry, algebra two?
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, are we getting all of those high school level coursework down?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: Are we learning?
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: And are we learning the thinking skills and the writing skills that they're gonna need in order to thrive after high school, you know?
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: And and I definitely was invested in them attending college, you know, and so for me, you know, I really wanted their online school to be college prep focused.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it came full circle.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: High school became all about, again, kind of reading, writing, and arithmetic on a higher level.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then I guess now I worry about what are their directions, you know, where are they going?
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: What are the career fields like?
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: My son is very much wanting to get into a vet tech program and it's really academically rigorous and challenging.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: And my daughter is interested in engineering, but still really interested in gaming.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so I I kind of now that we're, you know, we're sort of through the creating the structure for high school, and my son is through high school.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm worried about sending them out in the bigger world.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, no, for sure.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate you bringing me that or painting that picture and then bringing it full circle about how the the worries and the concerns where they started in school are kind of the ones you ended up with.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh did you talked about those big decisions you made from from private to charter to public to online schools, right?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like what were the best decisions you feel like you made in in re in hindsight?
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: And what were the worst decisions like that you made for your kids personally?
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think for me, when I look, the most important decision I had to make was to follow our path, right?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're in preschool, you know, in Florida we call it VPK, but you know, you're in that four-year-old preschool, and every single parent is like, where are they going to kindergarten?
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: Where are they going to kindergarten?
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like this big decision, are you doing public?
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: Are you doing private?
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I live in Florida.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: There's a ton of homeschooling.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: And we went to our neighborhood public school out of preschool because I really wanted them to have that neighborhood school experience.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it worked well for a few years.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: But the big decision I had to make was allowing myself the freedom to say, we're gonna decide every year if this is working or not.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: And we're gonna decide every year where the next year should be.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, we're at a neighborhood K through five school.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: But if that transition to third grade didn't look so good, which it didn't at our neighborhood school, then we're gonna reserve the right to look for a different school environment.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think putting my kids' needs first, as opposed to just following what was predicted or expected, was the biggest decision I had to make.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so, what did that look like in real life?
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: That looked like switching schools in third grade and then switching schools again after fourth grade, and then, you know, homeschooling and online schooling.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: But it was always grounded in what was the right thing for each individual child and for our family.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: And very early on, I involved them in, you know, making those decisions, probably as early as the fifth grade switch.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then my daughter, who is just so articulate about some things, came out of school early in sixth grade and said, Mom, I don't feel safe at school.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: Can we look for a different school?
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so what do you say to that as a parent?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: You say, of course, like I'll start tonight.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I think trusting that I would be able to figure out what my individual kids need.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then deciding to incorporate them in the process was another big decision I had to make.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: That I wasn't gonna be, you know, the parent who said, You're doing this, or I'm deciding where you're going, but that let's sit down and take a look at what are the options of neighborhood schools, private schools, charter schools, online school.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it was tough.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: It was tough.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: The biggest decision was to follow my heart.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like that there's so many like decisions we are tasked with like the best baseball player hits, like they get four out of ten hits, right?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, not even four out of ten hits.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: And and then we're like, oh, you're awesome.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: The best parent, you know, like if you made four out of ten good decisions, like people would think you're just an awful parent.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's really tough to get everything right with our with our kids.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we do put a lot of that external pressure on ourselves or internal pressure, whatever, all maybe both, um, on ourselves.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, it's really tough to know what the best thing if for our kid is.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: And we actually ended up moving towns or actually cities.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: We went from a small town to a big city last year because we thought that that would be best for our our our children growing up.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: More opportunities, more friends, more better healthcare, like all that stuff that you think about, you know, for kids.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like it kind of, but but again, I look back now and I'm like, I don't know, is that the best decision?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm always regretful of something.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: But no, that's that's I I love the paint, the picture you painted.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so like you talk about, you know, just just like those the the the challenges your kids have, right?
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: So like Neurodiverse, 16 and 18.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: Could you talk a little bit about just like the the worries and supports that you had for them and it and is currently ongoing, and then like how that translates to like the real world you talked about, like how they're going, how they're navigating to like, you know, heading out into getting, you know, their first job or going off to college and things like that.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: So my son's two biggest challenges were he was extremely hyperactive.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, in the top 1% of hyperactive kids could not sit still, literally just could not sit still.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't a question of he needed, you know, constant prompts or reminders, or he needed a fidget toy or a band on his desk.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: He literally could not sit still.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so figuring out, okay, how are we gonna accommodate that?
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: How are we gonna choose a school that could deal with that?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that it was very helpful for me to hear early on how severe his ADHD was because it allowed me to really trust in that as I was making decisions.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like at no point did I say, well, he can just cope with it, or, you know, he'll sit still for some of the day.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like I knew that there was a real need there based on the severity of his symptoms.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: So he is extremely hyperactive.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: He is still extremely hyperactive.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: We just had to go to the social security office for something um related to him turning 18.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, Mom, do I have to sit still for this meeting?
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like the work meetings are well, my friend.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the way a lot of people feel about work meetings.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, well, you can walk around outside and I will text you when it's time for the meeting, and you can come in and you can stand in the meeting, you know?
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: But that is a big challenge.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of people think kids outgrow that hyperactivity, but it has definitely been something that we've had to look at when it comes to careers.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: Now I will say that that sensitivity and empathy has always been one of his greatest strengths, along with being one of his greatest challenges.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll tell you a quick story because I think this is so different from what I expected from this sensitive child.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: He started work about two years ago, working at a vet, right?
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: His, you know, this is what he wants to do.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: He wants to work with animals.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: He loves animals, he loves dogs, and he comes home from work the first day and he's like, Mom, we had a euthanasia today.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm telling you, Ryan, my entire body clenched up.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I felt like I was gonna collapse on the floor in a heap of anxiety because I thought, here's my sensitive, sweet, dog-loving, you know, boy, immature, but so wise in so many ways.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I just, you know, I did what all the experts tell us to do as parents.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: I just sat still, listened, nodded, paused, kind of waited to see what he was gonna offer, right?
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: We're listening, listening, listening as parents.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh, euthanasia, right?
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm using my sports casting technique.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just repeating back what I'm hearing, right?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, Yeah, he goes, and it was a golden, and we have a golden, right?
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I now I'm like double collapse on the floor having a heart attack.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, Yeah, I learned today that it's really just an honor to be part of the circle of life.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then he just walked out of the kitchen.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, wow, okay, that's not what I would have expected from that.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: And it's been so fascinating to see how his empathy is getting channeled into connecting with the pet owners, but he's also able to handle the dogs when they're sick or in pain or doing euthanasias.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that has been so, I don't know, such a gift to me to watch that grow because I never would have thought when he was three or five or eight, that he would be able to do a job that had any kind of emotional challenge to it.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: But that empathy that made him so sensitive is really one of his best qualities now.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: Now, my daughter had different neurodiversity challenges.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: She was very, very quiet.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: She's a very slow processor cognitively.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: She's also a perfectionist.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so we really had to work in school a lot on how do we help her express herself.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: How do we help her figure out what she wants to say and how to say it?
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: My son, on the other hand, he can talk twice as fast as the average person.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: You listen to him for a minute, he'll tell you everything he knows about helicopters, everything he knows about military, everything he knows about different dog breeds.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: You ask my daughter a question and she kind of looks at you and she goes, What?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: And that was kind of how she spent through school most of the time.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like she just needs time to process, much more time than the average person.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: And that's, I think, her biggest neurodiversity challenge is needing more time despite being very bright.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: And that's been hard to advocate for, um, especially as she started some college classes because she doesn't seem like, and I think your parents will relate to this, doesn't seem like a kid who needs accommodations.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, yeah, no, I I appreciate you showing us that just because you fall under the umbrella of neurodiverse, it it is neuro like it's it is diverse, right?
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's so many different uh I guess it's in the title, but it's like people want to paint it as like, oh, just do this, or here's a solution, or go read this book, and you have all the all the all the facts you need.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, yeah, I mean, our kids are so different.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: And my four-year-old, I can relate to the not sitting still and the the what kind of she's she's a space cadet.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: I used to, I like to call it.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: I used to teach kindergarten, and so those kids, we call them space cadets because they're like not listening.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: They're they're kind of in their own little world, right?
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: In space.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: So that was, I don't know if that's for me, but that was that was a naming uh system we had there.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I just feel like there wasn't a lot of cause like you know, going back to when I was in, you know, a elementary school teacher, sounds like when your son was kind of in that same area as a as a student, right?
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just feel like there wasn't as good training on like the neurodiverse population.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like I know there was a lot of like oh, you know, tactile stuff, like let's give them this to kind of keep them busy.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: But it wasn't like you can stand, you can stand in the back of the room and and do this, and because then like I don't know, like there there was just like not as many accommodations or modifications, and now it's becoming a little bit more mainstream, at least you know, people being open to doing those, and you know, especially higher education, like you you mentioned, I just came from there and I know that that's that's a big part of it, you know, giving students more time to take a test or giving them more time to train an assignment, or you know, there's other things like that, but uh you know, with the accessibility stuff too, um you know, on on PDFs and like there's a lot of stuff to it.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: But I just think that uh, you know, this is this is a great conversation.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: I you know, you talked about medication, and so I wanted to get into that a little bit.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: Do you feel like the fur, you know, like they're just trying to solve every problem with like medication, you know, when you go to pr a provider and they're like, oh, you know, because I know like me again when I was when I was a teacher too, like I could tell when a student was like off their medication and be like, oh, please, you know, and it was totally different because like I didn't have kids then, I didn't really understand the effects of it and all that.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: And now being a parent, I'm not sure I would like take that as well as maybe it was like giving that out.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, how do you deal with the medication aspect of it?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, are you more like my my child doesn't need this, or do you embrace it and you're like, okay, let's get them on medication, let's help them and support them.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just curious how you handle that because even stuff like melatonin, I'm not even sure how to handle with with my own child because like she is a little hyperactive too.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: Bedtime is a tear sometimes.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you put it to bed at like 7:30, she'll be up till 10, like doing art projects.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, what the hell are you doing?
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like, she will not go to bed sometimes.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I and she doesn't nap.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, how do you have this like energizer bunny energy?
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, I need three naps a day to kind of get through life sometimes.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like she just doesn't need to sleep.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, anyways, I was curious how you how you handle with the medication aspect of it all.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I get asked this not infrequently on podcasts, and often people ask me a different question than what you asked me, which is what's your opinion on medication?
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I always say this this is what I always say I don't have an opinion on medication, right?
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: What I did as a parent was rely on science and evidence to make the decisions that were best for my kids.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: The science and the evidence for stimulant medication for ADHD is really clear that ADHD medication is safe, it's effective, that of all of the psychiatric medications, it is the safest and Most effective when you compare it to anxiety medications and depression medications and schizophrenia medications.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not sure I ever have really understood why we have this weird conversation in the United States about stimulant medications and ADHD.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think it goes back to our misconceptions of ADHD as being lazy or something people can overcome with willpower or something that everyone is getting a diagnosis for because they feel like it's going to give their kid a leg up, you know?
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because we would never have that conversation about does your kid need classes?
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: Does your kid need a hearing aid?
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: Does your kid need, you know, cancer treatment if they get a cancer diagnosis?
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: But somehow we still, you know, in 2026 are having the conversation about, you know, ADHD medication and treatment as if, you know, there's something dangerous there.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we set up a false dichotomy in our culture as well.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, do you want medication or not?
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Your question here, and I I think people think, you know, I don't want medication.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: What you're really saying is I don't want ADHD because your choice is not to have ADHD or not have ADHD.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's treated or untreated ADHD.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: So you know, I think that what a lot of our ambivalence is is we just don't want to have ADHD, you know, ourselves or for our kids.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: But when you do, then what am I an advocate for?
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm an advocate for science, evidence-based treatment that Yeah, yeah.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: No, yeah, no, I totally appreciate that.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I wasn't like going for like a hot take or anything like that.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: I was just trying to see how you do with that because yeah, no.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: I I mean it's because like I'm I'm in the same arena in in so in some ways because my my child's gone through ABA therapy right now, and there's gonna be supports and there's gonna be things that they suggest her to take.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, so I'm just like, I'm not even sure.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's overwhelming, honestly, for me at this point.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: Even having the experience I did with special education students mainstreaming into my classroom, I was a paraprofessional, my wife was a special education teacher.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: We have all that background and we're still overwhelmed.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's why I'm like the the typical parent who doesn't have that.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I just I can't even imagine how overwhelming it can be to get that diagnosis of like, you know, I remember it was Thanksgiving week, and we found out she has autism, and we were taken aback.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, I don't know, like I don't know how to describe it.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's weird because it's like we wouldn't change a thing about her if we could, but it was also like almost like a realization that her life is gonna be completely different, and our lives are gonna be completely different with just the challenges we're gonna have.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so, but yeah, like she's the sweetest thing.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: And you talked about empathy.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: My my daughter's the most empathetic person in the world, but then sometimes you look at her wrong and she's gonna flip out and she's gonna try to like fight, like literally fight me.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's like there's this, yeah, like that that that dichotomy of it is is crazy.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so I I don't know, I don't have all the answers, but this is this is what I'm trying to get into.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so, but uh do you think because I I know I had other people on the show that have a very typical, you know, they're kind of saying what you're saying, not typical, but you know what I mean, like they're backing it with science and this and that.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I've had a another guest or two who's been like ADHD is just more of a mindset kind of thing.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what do you like?
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: How do you respond to that kind of take?
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: Here's my hot take.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this is definitely a hot take area.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so I think when I'm in my professional role as, you know, the director of Russell Coaching, you know, when I hear things that are not scientific, whether they're about ADA or autism or anxiety, which are the three areas where we focus as a practice, you know, I like to just very gently say to parents, you know, it's so easy to worry about all of these things.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: And there is so much information out there that it's hard to sort through.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that we know is, and then kind of gently give them what the latest research shows us.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: Now, you know, is that a definitive answer?
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'll tell you, from the time my son was three until now when he's 18, the whole field of autism has changed dramatically.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, does science give us the forever answers that give us the concrete solutions that are going to make our lives easy?
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: No, it doesn't.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: But I I try to gently, lovingly, peacefully give people what do we know at this point?
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I try, along with that, to reassure them that yes, you are doing the best job that you possibly can do.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: And your child is okay, and you're okay, and they're gonna be okay in the future.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think it's it's a balancing act in my role as a professional to share up-to-date scientific information with just kind, caring, loving reassurance.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I just was curious about that because I know like someone can look at something and have two different completely thoughts, like completely different thoughts.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, living in that world and being kind of the mediator I am and and knowing that the dichotomy there of like, okay, you could one person's, you know, kind of dismisses the ADH thing, ADHD thing as as a real kind of disability.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then one is, you know, like like you're grounded in science and the facts and all that.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's just, it's just a curious, it's an interesting thing to me.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's all.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: I just was trying to get at that.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so given all what you said, the the ADHD brain, could you just kind of break it down for us real quick, like what that's like and why it, you know, what you've dealt with with your with your children in terms of that the extra extra supports that they need or maybe the challenges that that occur because of the ADHD brain.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sure.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think one of the things that all parents of kids with ADHD should know and should memorize or post on their bathroom mirror is what are the three symptoms of ADHD, right?
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: One is the brain does not automatically regulate attention.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: Your kid, it's not that they can't pay attention.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: We all know this, right?
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: They can pay attention.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's that the brain doesn't automatically put that attention where it needs to be all the time.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so we've got to start using that word regulate attention, right?
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's not necessarily just attention deficit.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's a deficit in the regulation of attention.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: The second symptom is the impulsivity.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this is where parents really struggle with feeling like my kid's not a bad kid, right?
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: No, your kid is absolutely not a bad kid, whether that's because they ate cookies before dinner or, you know, they punched a wall in their bedroom, or, you know, they experimented with drugs and alcohol.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: Those are impulsive things for our kids with ADHD.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so understanding how hard it is for people with ADHD to slow their role, right?
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think is so important.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: And then lastly, that hyperactivity.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of people think of hyperactivity as being exactly what my son was in elementary school, right?
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: The kid who couldn't sit still, the kid who was racing around all the time, constantly in movement.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: But here's the thing hyperactivity can look like a lot of things.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: My daughter was very hyperactive, but she wasn't like, you know, that sonic character who was like, you know, buzzing around all the time, but she was constantly wandering, right?
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: Wander, wander, wander.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't really notice it until she was about five when I noticed she never sits still.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: Now, she's not running around, right?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: But she is certainly ambling around.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: And the other thing is we sometimes don't think of verbal hyperactivity.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: We're always looking for, you know, who's the kid who's running?
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it could just be the kid who's meandering, like my daughter, but it could also be the kids who are verbally hyperactive.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so what do we need to know about the ADHD brain?
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that the symptoms are not willful.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: The symptoms are not character traits, right?
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: The fact that your kid does impulsive things doesn't make them a bad person.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: The fact that your kid can't sit still at the dinner table doesn't mean you didn't teach them manners, you know?
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think fundamentally as parents, that's what we struggle with.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like I want my kid to be a good human being, and I want other people to see that they are a good human being.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes ADHD can make it look like they have behavior problems, which boy, you want a hot take.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: Ask me about the word behavior, you know.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that's that's what we need to understand about ADHD is we use that word behavior, but it's not behavior, it's symptoms.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: And if we would say symptoms, I think we would come at it from a much more empathic point of view.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: You you mentioned the impulsivity and you have teenagers.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so what comes with that, with it with it, with the phones, the addictions, the online, you said you mentioned online school.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: So they're already kind of infiltrated into the technology world, heading off to college, things like that, where it's like those, those are the threats that for me, I'm starting to like get worried about already.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I have a five, you know, almost a five-year-old.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: So how do you handle that?
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how does the impulsivity really um make that even more?
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I could see it on your face.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: This is like a huge worry.
• 31:13
  unknown: Yeah.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: Sending me right back to middle school and you know, the gaming online instead of doing online school.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it got to the point, Ryan, where you'll you'll appreciate this.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: We ended up buying a laptop that I ended up literally tethering to his school desk and permanently blocking any kind of gaming on.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: And we spent, I think, half of our parenting time during middle school checking, you know, the monitoring programs that you install and getting alerts from them, like one of your children just downloaded this app, one of your children just played this game.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, when I look back on the amount of time we spent monitoring their activity online, I think, well, this is what I really think now is wow, we were amazingly great parents that we didn't give up and get exhausted and just go take one of our three naps for the day, right?
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it is so tiring.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: And we ended up, you know, Ethan had to work at this tethered computer where we had put every single block on.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: And somehow he would still circumvent us and we'd get the report that he's playing Roblox at 10 a.m.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I was furious.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know of another situation that made me as angry as that did.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: That impulsive game playing during middle school, not being able to get, you know, focused on work.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: It really, when I look back on where we're at now, I think that is the single thing that I think made me lose my SH, you know what.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: You can say shit if you want.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: It made me lose my shit repeatedly.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: But we did the best we could with installing all of the monitoring apps.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: We both work full-time, we got the alerts, we tried to address it, we had the conversation.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: But the thing about impulsivity is it's impulsive.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: He knew better.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: He just couldn't do better in the moment until his brain got a little bit more mature.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: So we had to create the external structures, like tethering the computer, like putting the blocks on, right?
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't a question of saying to him, Ethan, you know, seventh grade is really important.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: You need to do your work during the day.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: It was creating the structure and the boundaries externally so that he could.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: And now, you know, he never games during the day.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, he's he's such a hardworking, responsible person.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, yeah, let's just say it one more time for those parents who are in the thick of it.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: I lost my shit repeatedly about the impulsive use of devices during middle school.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: My daughter still struggles with it a little bit at 16.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, get off the Discord server, get off whatever it might be.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: But and so Russell Coaching is now, 17 years later, the largest student coaching practice in the United States.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: We work specifically with students who have ADHD andor autism and or anxiety.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they often go together, as you know personally, and we help them with executive functioning skills, with learning and study skills, and social and emotional skills.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: So we're not just executive functioning coaches.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: And we work with kids across the country.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: We have a model that works really well virtually.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: 89% of our students say that our virtual model works well or very well for them.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: So that's pretty high.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: And 96% of our students say that they are achieving at a higher level academically after working with Russell Coaching.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm pretty proud of our coaches.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: So go to RussellCoing.com for information about that.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: The podcast that I started two years ago is called ADHD, Autism and Anxiety.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: You can hear a theme here.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: Breaking out of the box because I felt like all these things kind of put us in a box, right?
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: People look at you and they think certain things, whether they're parents or professionals or teachers or doctors or whatever.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: I felt like I was in a box because of autism.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: So the podcast is breaking out of the box.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: And basically, I interview experts and parents on one of those things, ADHD, anxiety or autism.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: And we talk about their lived experience and we talk about science and we talk about treatment and you know, try in many ways to do exactly what you're doing on the parent tab.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: Give people more resources and reassure people that they are, yes, you are doing the best you can do in this moment, and it's really hard.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: And there are lots of people out there who will support you and not judge you.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: So go to wrestledcoaching.com.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: You'll find the blog, you'll find the podcast, you'll find information about coaching.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: We work with kids and young adults from 10 to age 25.