Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Lee, Andy & Cam about their choice of The Mind Robber (5/5)

Transcript

Talks to Lee, Andy & Cam about their choice of The Mind Robber (5/5) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:00
Welcome back to Hamster with a Blood Pen Knife, the Doctor Who
0:03
commentary podcast to feature every single Scottish man worthy
0:09
of notes in the entire country. Cam, Andy and Lee.
0:15
Hello. Good evening.
0:16
Oh, hello, hello. I've got a very important
0:20
question to ask you all before we head into the mind.
0:22
Robert, Episode 5. And you know, we've got time for
0:25
these indulgences. It's only 17 minutes and 53
0:27
seconds this episode. What's the best thing about
0:31
Scotland? Let's start with Cameron.
0:35
Oh God, right. The best thing about Scotland is
0:39
I think that as a nation we kind of know we're a bit rubbish and
0:45
we're kind of OK with that and we're willing to basically just
0:48
RIP the pistol of ourselves. But if anyone, if anyone tries
0:52
to RIP the pistol of us, we will deck them in the fucking heat.
0:56
I was scared you. We're going to say Nicola
0:58
Sturgeon then for a second. Thank you.
1:01
No, as I'm just saying, I'm saying as a nation, as a whole,
1:03
we are a beautiful nation. That is very much.
1:06
They have a way in front of me right now.
1:09
Thank you. Thank you.
1:10
I was thinking more they know that the locks and the Glens,
1:13
but I'll, I'll take it, you know, and and.
1:16
But he's not make lane yet. But we, we, we know.
1:21
As a glad footage. I think Andy and Leo Groom here,
1:25
we as Scotland, as a nation, kind of know that we're, we know
1:29
we're a bit rubbish sometimes, but that's OK.
1:32
Yeah, it's it's the sentiment of don't get ahead of yourselves, I
1:35
think is the, the, the way I would describe it, where you're
1:38
not allowed to in anything even resembling talent OR being good
1:43
at something is usually greeted with, well, hang on a minute,
1:47
like then you get ahead of yourself.
1:49
There's there's no tension going on.
1:52
Do you know the the John Lawley story from Dad's Army?
1:56
Now tell me. No, you know how right John John
1:59
Lawley was from Dumfries. He was from my neck of the
2:01
woods. I was born in Dumfries.
2:02
So was he not at the same time? And apparently he was.
2:06
They did the first season of Dad's Army and he had partly
2:09
came home at Dumfries for a pint with his mates and they all sat
2:12
around the table and this kind of semi silence and then they
2:14
went hi John, we saw you on the telly the other night in that
2:19
Dad's Army and they just took a sip and went you were all right.
2:28
Yes. But I, I.
2:29
Was going to say we've had this conversation but it's like if
2:33
something if if, if the highest accolade is I, it's no bad.
2:38
Yeah, you know, it's something is not.
2:40
I just love it. It's the only culture and nation
2:43
on the planet that describes something amazing as not being
2:47
the opposite of what it is. It's.
2:50
Like a pinnacle of achievement. It's Scottish Enlightenment I
2:52
it's all right. No, no, bad.
2:54
No bad. Don't you think you're going to
2:56
piggyback off camera, Andy? Now come on, what's?
2:59
Well, I was good. Well, it's, it's a bit loaded
3:01
now, so I was going to go with a self deprecating approach as
3:04
well. But for me, I'm afraid it's
3:05
going to have to go with rampant positivity again and say
3:07
whiskey. I know you don't drink.
3:09
However, whiskey is the most best The, the, the, the, the
3:13
most incredible experience. I only started liking whiskey
3:16
about 10 years ago and I think it was mainly 60% liking the
3:22
taste and 40% mental conditioning where you're
3:25
convincing yourself that you actually like this thing.
3:29
And once you've gone down the rabbit hole it, you know, it's
3:32
the most amazing thing ever. So yes, and, and I love whiskey,
3:36
I would say would be one of the best things about being
3:39
Scottish. I would have taken your smile as
3:41
well as an answer, but whiskey? Fair enough, Lee.
3:46
What's the best thing about Scotland?
3:47
I mean the answer is everything which is being covered by these
3:51
two. I mean it.
3:52
Could be your intro sort of Polish box.
3:56
Well, that goes in nobody's favour.
3:58
I I think. I think as a nation we've got
4:00
this boundless optimism about ourselves and everything else.
4:06
But a very sort of outward looking nation, I think.
4:10
Yeah, we're not very, we're not insular.
4:11
It's not to say we've not got our problems up here, because of
4:14
course we have. We've got things like
4:15
sectarianism, we've got drug problems the same as anywhere
4:18
else but. I hate to disagree with all of
4:21
you, but I saw a photograph of Mark Donaldson's Instagram
4:25
recently, right of a particular Scottish repast, and I said,
4:29
what on earth is that? It looks like an abortion.
4:33
And he said it's a potato scolden with haggis inside of
4:37
it. Anyway, that's the most
4:40
delicious thing you could ever try.
4:42
So of course I went hunting around trying to find the
4:44
ingredients for this, and I ended up at a mall in Elephant
4:48
and Castle, sort of in the basement to find the nicest
4:51
haggis I could find in England. I'll tell you what, it's the
4:54
finest thing against some stiff competition that I have ever put
4:59
in my mouth. You're.
5:02
Welcome. Well done.
5:03
Well done. I just, I don't, I mean square
5:06
sausage, like square sausage and tatty scone in a roll is like.
5:11
Black on the top of that. But I I'm so hungry now.
5:19
I know I always, always like the reaction of people who discover
5:24
deep fries Mars bars for the first time because I mean
5:27
essentially as the cross section of a colonoscopy, you know, I
5:30
mean. Why it melts in the batter?
5:32
Oh my God. I know it is.
5:35
There is not a penis better than that deep fries mouth.
5:38
Oh my. God.
5:40
Well, you don't want to shut that big fat fry.
5:42
No, I was going to say there you go, you can't eat, you know,
5:44
going to put that on the just eat in the review section.
5:47
Deep fries. Horsepower was better than any
5:50
penis I've ever had. 5. Stars.
5:55
The funnest thing about podcasting with all of you
5:58
heterosexuals is how you go along with all this bullshit.
6:00
Thank you so much. Yeah, no, I'd.
6:05
Be. Disappointed if we didn't.
6:07
You know, there's enough of this bloody nonsense about Scotland.
6:10
I think we should probably watch The Mime Robber episode 5.
6:12
What do you think? Well, it's there, it's got a
6:14
Scotsman in it. That's a Lincoln off, isn't it?
6:16
You know it's Lincoln off there. I think, you know, hang on, hang
6:19
on. If I was to ask you where
6:21
Scotland is right now, sort of politically, socially, is it
6:25
sort of the Hamish Wilson end of the scale or the Fraser Hines
6:28
end of the scale? So groping Wendy Padbury or sort
6:31
of showing up for a weeks of work?
6:37
Where, What would you be? Where is Scotland politically at
6:40
the minute? That's right, using those
6:42
gauges. Can I just point out, as a
6:44
member, as an employee of the Scottish Parliament, I will not
6:47
be taking part in this conversation.
6:52
As Lee must be neutral at all times.
6:54
Wow, we never thought about that.
6:57
I didn't realise you were exiled if you said anything bad.
7:01
But we have a you know how to get this thing in England at the
7:04
minute of putting English St. George's crosses everywhere in
7:08
some kind of show of being proud of England as a nation.
7:13
There's no one in Scotland drawn at Saint Andrew's cross on a
7:18
fucking roundabout. There's no one.
7:22
That is proud of the nation either, I'm afraid.
7:25
Make of that what you will. Well, look, chaps, I mean, I
7:29
think I've got as a considerable amount of value added material
7:33
for this episode there I'll count as inshallah.
7:36
Let's go. Yeah, all right, it's good 321.
7:40
Let's. Go.
7:41
I really want to come to Scotland now.
7:45
Get up to Edinburgh. Stop by stop by Kirtle Bridge on
7:51
the way and then up to Edinburgh.
7:52
After that through the Borders. You can't get the train up and
7:55
then, yeah, off you go. Stop off and look at the
7:58
audience. Stay open to my house one night,
8:00
Joe, it'll be fine. Promise me the best night of my
8:02
life. I'll promise the best night in
8:04
my life. OK.
8:05
I meant in culinary terms, Cameron.
8:08
Of. Course, I'll get you some haggis
8:10
and tatty scones, it'll be fine. Where did we leave this story?
8:13
I can't even remember what was happening.
8:15
Oh, the book. Crossed.
8:16
By a book there we. Go.
8:18
There you go. Yeah, Seth, buy paperback.
8:21
Yeah, 17 minutes and 53 seconds, a bit on the short side.
8:26
Now late, Why is that? OK, you put me on the spot.
8:30
Now I know they're all short for a reason.
8:32
They're all on the run, these episodes.
8:35
Thank you for trying. Would you like the reason?
8:39
Because I can't remember now. The reason is that that Paddy
8:42
that Patrick Troughton had at the start of the episode, at the
8:44
start of the story when he said we're literally doing all the
8:47
work here. You've got no guest actors.
8:50
If you want us to do an entire episode, yeah, you have got to
8:54
chop some out of all the other episodes.
8:56
So we're doing the length of A4 parter.
8:59
We're not doing 5 episodes where we're literally doing all the
9:02
work in one episode. Makes sense?
9:03
Every single episode is short, so it almost comes in at the
9:07
length of a standard Doctor Who story.
9:09
Yeah, yeah, OK. God, I'm full of fascinating
9:12
facts. This was.
9:16
This was the steer, Yeah, this was the steer comment.
9:19
Yeah, I've stopped yet to meet a robot I can claim I think it
9:21
was, wasn't it? Yeah, who's the what's the name
9:24
of the guy playing the the the master again?
9:27
It's the name of this guy. Embrace something.
9:29
Embrace Hughes. I like Jones.
9:31
I like how he goes from being sort of really, really sort of
9:34
like cosy. Kind of.
9:35
I'm just writing a little story. I was in England and I was going
9:38
to. He does do bloody cackling
9:41
villain really well and this well.
9:42
That's a that's a brain taking over, isn't it?
9:44
Behind them, that's. Yeah, yeah.
9:45
That's. Voice as an accident.
9:47
He kind of flips between the two.
9:48
Really, really well. I really understand the driving
9:51
force. There is it.
9:52
Is it because because he was, he was wanting away, so he was
9:55
wanting out of being controlled by the brain.
9:58
So he was trying to convince the doctor to take over, but was the
10:00
brain going actually he's just a better candidate than what I've
10:04
currently got? Or is it about both?
10:06
The latter I think. Right.
10:08
I think so, yeah. There's this whole thing a bit
10:11
over going to use this to take over the Earth.
10:13
It just muddies I I don't, I don't what?
10:15
Is that doesn't. Mean to be there.
10:16
It doesn't even belong in this. Just having the threat to your
10:19
main characters enough you don't have to.
10:21
I was going to. Say that kind of motivation was
10:22
just pitched pitched in at the end.
10:25
But it was. Like, well, you know what I
10:27
mean, because it was like just getting a hold hold of the
10:29
doctor, as you said, that was that was motivation enough.
10:31
But then it's like, oh, we'll take over the world as well as a
10:33
Brucey bonus. Surely though, being being the
10:36
Doctor and being the first time travellers probably clapped eyes
10:38
on the Doctor will have a knowledge of every single piece
10:42
of major literature throughout all sorts of time streams, and
10:46
therefore he could use that as a source of to do anything.
10:49
God, he'd write a great Doctor Who's story, wouldn't he?
10:51
The Doctor. Yeah, exactly.
10:54
Great about. Being meta, no, I agree with you
10:56
as well. I think in production terms,
10:58
like I've clearly that's just a flat there of that fairy tale
11:01
castle, but that with the set, I think it's got a bit of depth.
11:04
I was. Gonna say you're depth of what
11:05
they use because it's like multi layered it looks really good.
11:08
When we get to my favorite set piece of the story, I think it's
11:11
what Andy Coyne does. The bit where the whole thing
11:13
had just gone completely insane. When the Doctor's just popping
11:17
every literary character he can think of that you've got, like
11:21
D'artagnan and Blackbeard in a fairy tale castle in space.
11:26
And if there was ever a sentence that described Doctor Who more
11:29
than that, I don't think I could find it.
11:34
Here we go. Oh yeah.
11:36
Become fiction. Here, yes, this is this is
11:38
another, this is another dithering bit, Yeah.
11:41
And I don't know what it is the body language.
11:45
He does flustered so well. Yeah.
11:48
I've got to say, I'm I'm, I'm with the other half here.
11:51
I think Rapunzel's great. Like more more I want.
11:54
But could she get in the TARDIS with them and go for adventures?
11:58
She'd be so useful, the amount of mountains that go down.
12:01
I know exactly. Imagine her in Ice World Lee,
12:06
she'd get. We wouldn't need that
12:07
cliffhanger, wouldn't we? Of dragon fire in one go.
12:16
This is literally every lazy Doctor Who riot.
12:19
The enemy was finally defeated by the doctor.
12:21
There we. Go.
12:23
They were defeated. They were defeated by love, says
12:26
James Corden. No, Stephen fucking Moffett
12:30
would say. That oh, you're staying there?
12:31
Come on, let's not open that can of worms.
12:36
I've been such a nice time. Here we are.
12:38
We are. Save that for next weekend.
12:42
So hang on, if he writes himself as fiction, he becomes fiction,
12:46
yeah. Yes, yeah.
12:48
How does that? He can't write himself into the
12:50
story at all. Yeah, right.
12:53
He has to start to scut around finding a solution without
12:56
involving himself. But then if Jamie and Zoe have
12:59
become fiction, yeah, because, you know, in a minute they're
13:02
rubbing their hands together a evil when they put them in that
13:05
box. So how do they become not
13:07
fiction at the end? It's solved by love Oh.
13:13
Thanks, Cameron. Has.
13:17
Explained really isn't. It trout the children again.
13:22
This is what they're all like. Come on, who?
13:25
Is that like the railway children or something who the
13:27
kids meant? To.
13:27
Yeah, that doesn't. Look very real way.
13:29
Children. Yeah.
13:30
I watch the real way. Children, the famous 5, but
13:32
there's seven of them, so that's a bit.
13:38
I don't count any more than three usually on hamster, so I
13:41
haven't learned any more numbers.
13:45
Has someone wiped his mouth now? Is that?
13:47
Yeah. Yeah, I think so.
13:48
It's battle. Free.
13:48
It's battle. Free.
13:49
It's battle free. I mean, this is one way, just
13:53
right in the way going that Jamie and Zoe have realized the
13:56
Doctor is the most vile and evil criminal.
14:01
They have realized that the doctor is a wanker.
14:06
But just, I like imagine these scenes where we're sort of
14:09
writing the script of the story and the characterisation of the
14:14
companion. Just imagine that being made
14:15
now. Just the gags, like I said
14:17
earlier, would just be so on the nose.
14:19
It would just be, it would just be Doctor Who fans on the mobile
14:21
phones, wouldn't it? On like no.
14:24
Cameron we did that. We went through the screen and
14:27
had a chat with the most tedious Doctor Who.
14:29
Don't bring back these terrible memories of Lux Shut up.
14:32
Yeah. Well, that would be, that would
14:33
be those three come back if they did this.
14:35
Now be those three come back. Yeah, but the doctor wouldn't do
14:37
that. Did you watch that one, Andy?
14:41
No, I don't think. However, just to to pick up more
14:43
Cam saying they're just now. I take it you get that a lot
14:46
from the from fans, but it's that we'll see.
14:48
The doctor would not do that. Oh, yeah, You know what I mean?
14:53
It's like I've, I've already, I've already got a construct in
14:56
my head of how they're going to respond in every eventuality.
15:01
It's the ones that that say so. Oh, you know he would never pick
15:05
up a weapon and he's literally murdered his way through the
15:08
entire series. I.
15:09
Mean he's committed genocide before so you know he's morally
15:13
loose. Thrown up entire planets and
15:15
destroyed whole fleets of ships. I wouldn't pick up a weapon my
15:20
arse. I wasn't having an entire go at,
15:25
Loch said. It was just that fun, but I love
15:27
locks apart from that. So what happens, Andy, is they
15:30
go into a cinema screen. Yeah.
15:32
And then they sort of push through the glass out of the TV
15:37
into free fans living room where they're watching Doctor Who.
15:41
And they're like, Oh my God, it's the Doctor.
15:43
And he gets to sit down and they tell him, they tell him their
15:46
favorite episodes and things like this.
15:48
But God me, it's every tick boxy fan you could possibly think of.
15:51
Oh dear. Yeah, it's it's all the fans you
15:56
avoid like the plague at the conventions.
15:58
You know, they've got a particular whiff of
16:03
dissatisfaction about them. And the thing was that I just
16:07
did not need it. It was great up until that
16:09
point. They could have been more.
16:12
I know, getting away from the mind roll, but it's like having
16:14
Mr. Ringer. Thing is a cartoon, like cop
16:17
heads come to life. A murderous cartoon.
16:19
Great. Literally Roger Rabbit done
16:21
with. Yes, yeah, yeah.
16:24
It's such a good episode up until that.
16:28
So why did they do it? Why did they do it?
16:30
Sorry, I just, I just. I think he thought he was being
16:33
clever to have the Doctor a conversation with Doctor Who
16:36
fans, but that's that's the sort of meta you get now.
16:40
Whereas here it's like we're going to turn the companions
16:42
into carport cutouts because that's basically what they are
16:45
there. They go.
16:49
I thought he was getting his hair done.
16:54
Yeah. This is the team foil one in a
16:56
minute, yeah. Yeah, that would.
16:57
Happen to the Master Brain, I'd say.
16:59
I mean, what are they going to use that for in future
17:02
productions? You can guarantee that got
17:04
recycled at some point that's going to crop up somewhere.
17:07
That's an expensive prop that's got in a store cupboard to
17:11
getting drafted out in a few years time.
17:14
I, Claudius or something, the Emperor of Rome has had this
17:17
great crystal. It's actually a place that you
17:20
never know. He's a he's annoying branch
17:24
Brian. Blessed.
17:27
What's? Happening now.
17:30
Oh, there. Push it.
17:31
Come on, Push. Out.
17:32
Of the book. Oh, hold on a minute.
17:35
It's a Terence Dick I. Mean they're both.
17:39
They don't just climb out on the count of three.
17:41
We're going to step to the right.
17:44
It's enough of a car there, but. You know, there's some books,
17:47
you know that are so tedious you just wouldn't want to be trapped
17:49
in them, would you? Have you ever read the Ghosts of
17:53
N Space Andy? No, but.
17:56
You're talking about you're talking about tedious books and
17:59
this should be up my I, I read das boat, right, which is
18:03
basically life. On a U.
18:06
And it was fucking terrible. It was.
18:09
It's like the majority of time in a U boat, nothing happens.
18:12
Oh my God, There was a whole chapter about the the, It's
18:15
basically a he's a newspaper writer and he's on EU boat with
18:20
the crew, and there's a whole chapter on him watching a family
18:23
crawling across his bunk. It's like, it was awful, awful.
18:28
I think the worst book I could possibly be trapped in is the
18:31
Bible for me, you know, I mean, I'll be in flames in a second.
18:34
Wouldn't. Probably, Yeah, Yeah.
18:38
Old Testament, you're done for. Yeah, I was going to say, you're
18:41
not. You're not coming.
18:42
Out. I don't think good they would,
18:45
yeah. I sort of trap Cameron in the
18:47
autobiography of the current manager of his favorite football
18:50
team. Who is that Cameron?
18:56
What? Russell?
18:58
Yeah, I don't even want. To think about it.
19:02
Why do you follow football? It's clearly very distressing
19:05
for you. Because I started watching
19:07
football when the team I followed were really good in the
19:10
90s and then. Like Doctor Who?
19:13
Yeah. Yeah, and they've progressively
19:15
just seemingly just gone backwards over the years.
19:18
There are so many parallels between Doctor Who fans and
19:21
football fans, isn't there? I mean, you guys all dress up
19:24
like idiots when you go to football matches, just like the
19:26
fans at the conventions. You overanalyze all the little
19:30
details that could possibly it's it.
19:32
Yeah, I was going to say this earlier on.
19:34
I think that this is This is why I think you guys are so lucky,
19:37
especially when you're going away.
19:38
This you're going to all meet up this weekend as if you really,
19:41
really think about it. The reason you know each other
19:44
is because of the thing that you like, right?
19:47
That doesn't that doesn't take into account foibles,
19:52
personalities, likes, dislikes. You just you just you, you have
19:56
a common, you have something in common.
20:00
So the fact that you guys all get on and as you Joe, as you
20:04
said, it's, it's less about the Doctor Who convention and just
20:06
meeting all the people that I like and have the same interests
20:08
me. That is incredibly powerful, Lee
20:10
Right. So Lee, you'll know what I'm
20:11
talking about here. So I like Sputio, right?
20:14
And again, it's one of these niche things that the only thing
20:17
that you've got in common is other people that like the game,
20:20
right? And you find people that are
20:22
absolute. Bell ends and are clearly on the
20:26
spectrum somewhere, right? And you're like, oh, John.
20:30
Yeah, exactly. And it's like you're a
20:32
comparison. Imagine, imagined you found like
20:37
as you said, you've Cameron, you'd like you like this as a
20:40
kid, and then you've rocked up at your first Doctor Who
20:42
convention and everyone is an asshole.
20:44
The only thing that you've got in common is you like Doctor
20:47
Who, that that that puts you off for the rest of your life.
20:50
You're back. You're back in your box again,
20:51
watching it on your own. Yeah.
20:53
So I think it's really, really important that you you find
20:56
people I. Literally did that though.
20:58
I, I went to a meet up in Brighton.
21:01
I mean, I should have known I was in trouble when I went to
21:03
the gay Brighton Doctor Who fan group and God, they were, they
21:08
were a bunch of cunts, a lot of them.
21:10
And there was some mad person in charge of it going, you think,
21:14
what about that? And I was like, oh, I'm not
21:16
coming here again. What a load of twats.
21:18
And I didn't do it again. Yeah.
21:21
You've got the lower wrong. It's not, it's not inclusive.
21:24
You know, it takes itself too seriously, so.
21:27
Yeah, I think any sort of organized fan group just sucks
21:30
the fun straight out. They say, they say in the Jodie
21:35
Whitaker's Time Space for All, and I think that's what the best
21:39
podcasts do well, except for those, of course.
21:44
You know, what's your favorite Bitly of that great big sword
21:46
fight there? D'artagnan Blackbeard.
21:49
Sir Lancelot. I'll tell you what the most
21:51
disappointing bit of that whole sword fight was for me, it's
21:54
when they mentioned Bergerac and it wasn't John Nettles.
21:57
Oh yeah, of course I. Was expecting them coming in in
21:59
his leather jacket and, you know, busting jersey, jersey,
22:03
like, like John Levine Woods. But yeah, that knows though.
22:07
That's an impressive problem. He is like now, like they just
22:12
need to end the story because he now they just want to murder the
22:14
doctor because they need to climb next to the story and then
22:18
Jamie. And so we go quick, press every
22:20
button that will drive the brain insane.
22:22
It's quite funny. There we go, every single button
22:26
just whackled. She could have done that.
22:28
She could have done that right at the start.
22:29
They need charged snakes. It's like how I do my job, just
22:33
press any button and hope for the best.
22:35
See if I fix these things. I mean, my master brain was
22:39
overloaded when I came on this coal and saw You Beautiful men,
22:43
but I so I know what he's going through.
22:46
See that spec? You're saying that you didn't
22:48
know if it would kill him if he took his headset off, but he did
22:51
it there, right? And it was about even a thought.
22:54
They've done that right at the start.
22:56
Yeah, yeah. But there's like the end of
22:58
episode 5 now so they don't care.
22:59
Oh, I see what you're saying, that we could have done that 2
23:01
episodes ago, yeah. Yeah, we just saved a lot of
23:04
time, Yeah. We've missed the point.
23:05
Played about with Rapunzel and Medusa and all those fun things.
23:10
We've missed the point where Jamie and Zoe become non fiction
23:12
again. I don't remember how that
23:13
happens. They get all the book.
23:17
We was talking about the sword. That's that's fair.
23:20
Sorry, have we had the sword fight?
23:22
Did I just like Waffle? My way through the sword fight,
23:24
Yeah, we all missed it. We're having a really, really
23:27
social conversation about friends, but that was fine,
23:29
yeah. Oh, that's a bit twee.
23:31
No, I was going to say it's like the horse.
23:33
I waited the Lancelot on his horse.
23:34
Was it the same horse as the Unicorn or was it a fake horse?
23:38
Because I would imagine, I'm gonna guess it was a fake horse,
23:42
you know, But if it was going to be a horse, it was that horse,
23:45
yeah. And I can't.
23:46
Imagine the budget would have would have stretched to two
23:49
horses. That's an awesome way horse with
23:50
an acuity card. Very much if we was doing this
23:54
today, yeah, that fight, it literally would be the Kraken at
23:57
the end, scaling the wall of that castle.
24:00
Some great CGI behemoth wouldn't.
24:03
It. But it's fun that it's just
24:05
literary characters. And then the kids at home were
24:07
probably like, well, I want to learn more about Black, Black
24:10
Beard. I want to learn more about
24:11
D'artagnan. It's like any good Doctor Who
24:13
episode that leads you on to other things.
24:17
Oh, don't you love the masks? Now he's going.
24:19
Oh well, I go home. Oh, how jolly.
24:24
The scoops he scooped him up from 1929, I assume he's not
24:28
getting put back in 1929. So basically he thinks he's
24:31
getting rescued, but actually life's just going to get a whole
24:34
lot worse for him. I actually I think.
24:37
So, well, he's going to be starting 5000 words a week.
24:41
On that positive note, the end you can imagine not typing away
24:47
in the typewriter. He thought he was saved.
24:49
Actually, what happens the? End and then the cage came down.
24:57
It is a bit anticlimactic, isn't it, After everything that's
24:59
happened, all these set pieces. Just yeah, it doesn't really
25:02
think it's got a proper end and it does it.
25:04
I just, I know, I know it's the nature that at this point it's
25:07
serialized and it continues into the next story.
25:09
But if you're watching it in isolation, it does feel a bit
25:12
lacking at the end. It's.
25:13
One of those stories that ends in a way just because it has to
25:17
end. Yeah, yeah.
25:19
Which is a shame really, because of the the the cliffhanger at
25:22
the end of every individual episode.
25:24
They were all quite good. So like floating in the void and
25:27
then the Medusa one and getting crushed by a giant book.
25:31
You know, by the end of the last episode for the, the, the TARDIS
25:35
just assembles itself again. They're like, oh, all that, all
25:39
that wage. Oh, the horse.
25:42
The horse, yeah, getting charged, that was the best one.
25:44
I can't believe I missed that. Oh, I don't know, I think the
25:46
book might be my favorite. Being Crushed, I.
25:51
Know they're not getting getting run down by a horse that looks
25:54
like it's off its tits on ketamine.
25:55
I think that we can start that that one in for me do.
25:59
You know, I mean the the biggest question that's sort of brewing
26:03
in my head about the mind robot. And please think about this for
26:06
a second before you answer. What the hell is Subutio?
26:13
What did you ask? How is subutio?
26:15
What is it? What is it?
26:18
So it is like a combination of snooker and football.
26:25
I'll see, I'll send you a video. It's like you basically you
26:28
little plastic men and you flick them about, knock a ball into a
26:32
goal. That's that's how it works,
26:33
right? And it's a game from, in fact,
26:36
it's of the same era. I think it came out in the 1950s
26:39
and it was massive all the way through the 60s, seventies, 80s,
26:42
nineties, and then computer games came along and killed it
26:46
dead. But there's still people who
26:48
play. And I'm again, will Leo know
26:50
because he knows the guys. But I'm quite lucky.
26:52
I've got a group. There's maybe four or five of us
26:55
that we're all roughly the same age.
26:56
We're all into it for the same reason, which is it's nostalgia.
26:59
Like we had it as kids. There's the same, it is exactly
27:04
the same as the old Doctor Who thing, but it's like you've got
27:06
a whole bunch of people who we, we get on really well.
27:09
But then you look at the rest of the superior community, like
27:11
it's massive in Italy and Malta and Greece where they treat it
27:15
as a sport. So people get very like dipping
27:19
over tables competitive. So you've got.
27:23
Like when all the fans come together at Doctor Who
27:25
conventions. So sort of the smell is intense.
27:28
Yeah, I'll see, I'll see. I'll put it onto the sports hat
27:31
group. There's there's a video, there's
27:33
a couple of videos where it's like, oh, this is the best of
27:36
Sputio and this is the absolute worst.
27:39
And it's that it's the same idea.
27:41
It's like people going, it's just that thing off the telly.
27:44
It's just a game that we're doing it because we enjoy it and
27:48
we've all got a bit of nostalgia and then you've got an element
27:50
of people that just go really like far too serious.
27:54
So I guess it's the. UCO championships as well.
27:57
You know the the. Last World, the last World Cup
28:00
was last year in England and next year it's in Paris.
28:04
So I'm I'm not going to be there because I'm not good enough.
28:07
Hang on, we could take a walk along the Seine afterwards and
28:10
drink some wine together. So there you go.
28:14
That's that's that's. That's that's what subutio is.
28:17
I'm sure I've told Andrew this before, but I do have a work
28:19
colleague who was represented in England at the Cebu Your World
28:21
Cup and when he went it was at the San Siro.
28:25
Yeah, yeah. That's like back when it used to
28:27
televise it on Channel 4 in the 90s, just right about the same
28:31
time as Gazette a Football Italia.
28:34
Yes, yeah. So.
28:36
I I love the fact that this. Has made you.
28:38
I mean it's not like getting scant trays because they also
28:40
televised kabadi as well and sumo.
28:45
Anything together? Exactly.
28:48
So now I'm doing the face you're doing when we're making niche
28:52
Doctor Who references. What the hell are they talking
28:54
about? Why don't you love how
28:55
interactive this been? Right.
28:57
I've learnt all about football and Sabutio Andy.
29:00
You've learnt all about Doctor Who trivia, Cameron.
29:03
You've endured the three of us tonight.
29:05
Thank you. That's fine, it's what I used to
29:08
do. And we've all learnt about John
29:09
Levine from that book. That we have, John.
29:12
Levine holds through every single absolutely.
29:14
Wonderful mystical brownies. But now look fellas, before we
29:19
all go to bed together, let's do our three fabulous things about
29:23
the mine robber so we can at least suggest to people why they
29:27
should watch this. And now you've got notes.
29:28
You've all said. You've got notes that you've
29:30
barely looked at. ASK.
29:32
I'll go 1st. And I will say God bless David
29:35
Maloney, right? The director of this mad piece
29:40
who's being asked to bring this hugely imaginative fairy tale
29:44
world to life with a bit of sticky back plastic and three
29:48
pence. How fuck me does he give it a
29:51
go? Yeah, it's not always
29:52
successful, but we said it is atmospheric.
29:55
It's got pace. The set pieces are all fun and
30:00
they just all go for it. He gets the access to literally
30:02
go for it in this mad, mad piece.
30:05
I think it's a really well directed bit of 62.
30:09
Yeah. David Maloney is my first.
30:11
Lee, what about you? All right, my first one's Hamish
30:14
Wilson, because what a performance and it's especially
30:17
he's been essentially dragged in at the 11th hour to replace an
30:20
old Fraser Hines. Even more so when you consider
30:23
like the tight filming schedules they would have been under to
30:25
meet their sort of allocated broadcast date.
30:28
He steps in and it was a performance.
30:30
He even gets his Fraser Heinz mannerisms down.
30:33
Well, I mean, within minutes of appearing, he's got his hands
30:36
all over Wendy, Paddy Bree's waist.
30:38
And there's nothing more Fraser Heinz than that.
30:41
So he's committedly he is exactly.
30:44
He's got an attention to detail Joe.
30:47
And it's a bit of a shame we don't get an awful episode with
30:49
him. I'd ever like to have seen that.
30:51
Or at least when Fraser Heinz comes back to have an episode,
30:54
we reflect between the two Jamies as he begins to, like,
30:57
settle back into existence. But yeah, a sterling job from
31:01
Hermes Vulture. Mel done, man.
31:03
Cameron. Wendy Padbury sparkly jumpsuit,
31:10
Which, if it was that, if that was a band name on a poster,
31:13
you'd go and see them. Absolutely.
31:16
Is it just for that shot where she's on the console though?
31:18
Be honest. Couldn't possibly comment.
31:19
You couldn't possibly comment. I'll answer for a minute what it
31:22
definitely is. No, it was a fine shot.
31:25
He knew where to put that camera, didn't he?
31:28
Well. Indeed, Andy, what's your
31:31
birthday? So I think I mentioned it right
31:35
up front as I do in all immersion is important to me.
31:38
So the budget creativity, I think was really well done.
31:43
I know you just touched on it right at the start there, Joe,
31:45
where you were saying about, you know, like you are have got some
31:49
really tight playing fields that you've got for this, for this
31:54
set of episodes here. And working within those
31:58
confines. I think, you know, it's just as
32:02
impressive as if they did have a budget for it.
32:05
So to be able to get, like you said, you know, to be able to
32:08
look past that and actually said the budget and the, the, the,
32:13
how they did things is not important as what they did.
32:17
So, yeah, for me it was the, the, the, the creativity with a
32:21
limited amount of resources that they've got.
32:24
I thought was was quite good. That is wonderful.
32:29
My second is going to be the special sound for this.
32:32
I don't know if it's Brian Hodgson, but I think very often
32:35
in Doctor Who, the sound people do the work that the budget
32:39
can't, and they create ambience and atmosphere and boy, they're
32:42
working overtime on this one. That weird white void in the
32:46
first episode, that horrible noise that invades the TARDIS,
32:49
that weird up the spine noise with the white robots, the
32:53
cranking of the toy soldiers. Like it's that stuff really got
32:58
under my skin when I was a kid. So yeah, I think they do a
33:01
sterling job, Lee. OK, my second one's the free
33:06
leads, so it's one of my favourite TARDIS teams.
33:09
I mean, you've got the long established double act of the
33:11
Doctor and Jamie and I do like the relationship between Jamie
33:15
and Zoe as well. This kind of hints of Zoe find
33:18
them a bit beneath her from time to time.
33:20
And then you've got Jamie finding Zoe a bit insufferable.
33:24
So there's a wee bit of kind of good nature needle and beckoning
33:27
going on in there. I think the the original
33:29
intention was for Jamie and Zoe to have a bit more tension
33:32
between them, especially he's like, Jamie was almost resent in
33:35
her presence in the TARDIS because he's there in the place
33:37
of Victoria. But, you know, frankly, they
33:40
ditched the idea. And I've got more sort of
33:42
beckoning brother and sister here to the relationship that
33:45
carries on beyond this episode. You see, in the invasion as
33:48
well, all the way up to the end of the series, they've just got
33:51
a nice back and forth between them and the three of them are
33:53
just magic together. So yeah, Trout and Fraser lines.
33:56
Wendy Padbury has a three. 3 fucking kids in the TARDIS isn't
34:01
it? There's not an adult amongst
34:02
them. Camera is great.
34:06
Your fella playing the big bad, as I kind of alluded it to
34:10
before, I've said it before, his ability to veer between sort of
34:14
sweet little old man who's I've just come back from Geordie
34:17
England and then to be like the big bad of the snarling kind of
34:21
rubbing his hands. They look yes, doctor, it will
34:24
kill you now was was pretty cool.
34:27
I think that's it's good how he can pretty much carry off both
34:31
within the same story, sometimes within seconds of each other.
34:36
I think you play a masterful master of the land of fiction,
34:38
you know? I could do that.
34:41
I could do that if I can play a Swedish woman.
34:45
Yeah, he's got the range, Yeah. I got the range.
34:48
I got range, man. I got range.
34:49
That's all. That's all I'm saying.
34:51
Definitely do, Andy. I mentioned earlier, so the
34:57
cliffhires at the end of each episode I thought were really
35:01
well done. And if you think about it, it's
35:02
like the whole point is to, you know, get people to tune in the
35:06
next week to see what happens to make you care.
35:09
I mean, I thought they were really, really well done.
35:12
So, as I said, the, you know, the the the, the existential
35:15
crisis of staring off into the void.
35:17
And you know, for an episode with this budgetary constraint
35:21
to be engender their feeling of Oh my God, I remember what it
35:24
was like open water swimming, and that was a horrible feeling.
35:27
You know, you're, you're you pulling for that, that the horse
35:29
was fantastic, which we'd see more of that or of that.
35:32
No, it was just the the the cliffhangers making you want to
35:35
come back for the next episode. I think they got that right.
35:39
I think they got that really right.
35:41
You know what else they've got there?
35:42
As well as the get out clause? Well, none of it exists.
35:45
So in the reprise they can just go, well, I don't exist.
35:48
Oh, it's gone. Great.
35:50
Easy, yo. Well, I'm going to go for my
35:53
last thing for something completely facetious.
35:55
So that is the greatest piece of plastic since the conscious of
36:00
Marinus, the master brain. Simply because I will find out
36:05
who's got that prop in there dusty cellar somewhere and I
36:09
will offer you a huge sum of money plus Cameron services for
36:13
the rest of his life. No, I just, I don't know.
36:16
It's just a really, really quirky bit of design.
36:18
Services for what, Joe? Services for what?
36:21
Well, whatever they fancy, Lee. Wow.
36:25
My last hope, sorry my tail is a bit to go to standby because
36:27
they've been a lot on the set. There we go.
36:29
That's absolutely right #3 it's batshit crazy.
36:35
I mean, I love 1960s Doctor Who. Like I said earlier on, this is
36:39
essentially the last hurrah of that wild through things at all
36:42
and see what sticks sort of air of making Doctor Who.
36:46
I'm going to come across as a bit of a replacement Fraser
36:48
Gregory service when I say this. But stories like this where
36:51
they've clearly gone to hell with it and just let that
36:54
imagination just run the wild, even if it doesn't always quite
36:58
come off successfully. So I love stories like that.
37:01
I mean, I grouped this together with like the web Planet, the
37:04
chase, the underwater menace, that sort of crazed tip all the
37:08
toy box, tip all the toys at the toy box onto the floor and let's
37:12
see what happens. Approach stories of like a very
37:16
left field approach to storytelling or design the
37:19
likes, which we don't really see again after this until maybe
37:23
about it's like kinder ghost Light.
37:25
So Doctor Who sort of settles into a pattern after this like a
37:29
house style during the 70s. And don't get me wrong, it's a
37:31
house style that clearly works and brought us so many fantastic
37:36
stories, but there's nothing as downright loopy as this bunch of
37:41
episodes. It's like Peter Capaldi says
37:44
about the way planet. Don't pick it as shortcomings,
37:47
just appreciate his ambition. So yeah, just the overall layer
37:51
of just mentalness in this episode.
37:53
Lee MC Ena MENA MENA MENA. You were so fucking eloquent at
37:57
times, you know, serious. Occasionally.
38:00
Very occasionally. No.
38:01
Do you know what? Right.
38:01
Two synapses in my head just joined together and my pants
38:05
started twitching. When you said something just
38:07
then you mentioned the Chase, and I thought, oh, I'd love to
38:11
make Andy watch the Chase. I mean, the conversation we
38:14
could have about that. We're locking him in.
38:18
We'll we'll try and convince him after this, all right?
38:20
But. I was going to say, it says he
38:21
is not going to take much convincing, but I love the fact
38:25
that it's basically what can we make him watch?
38:29
Yeah. What?
38:30
What would he enjoy? Yeah.
38:33
No, no, no, no, no. On the subject.
38:35
It's like, what can we make? I love this.
38:36
I want you to love it too. There's something nice about
38:39
that. If you think this is math, well,
38:42
you've got some surprises coming, Cameron.
38:45
Last thing, stop motion snakes Medusa's head.
38:50
I think it was just a nice little bit of like for 19,
38:52
sixties, 68. That's actually quite
38:54
impressive. No pressure, Andy, but you're
38:57
coming in at the rear here. What's your last?
38:59
One well, I was going to say in that case, I'm going to use
39:03
Rapunzel. I want to her character for as
39:06
short a time as she was on screen, she was positive.
39:09
She was like beautifully naive and the way she did like
39:15
portrayed herself. I absolutely loved it and it
39:17
made it, you know, it was that moment where they're all
39:19
standing around at the end and it's like, oh please, everyone
39:22
that's there just getting the TARDIS going to get big group
39:24
adventure together. So I'm going to give I'm going
39:27
to give the last point to Rapunzel.
39:29
She was lovely. Normally #4 behalf of us all.
39:33
Wendy Padbury in that cat suit. Yeah, yeah, we're going to have
39:36
that. Well, thank you.
39:37
That goes, isn't it? Yeah.
39:39
I know, I know. Just to keep things balanced,
39:41
I'll say Fraser Hines in that fabulous T-shirt.
39:44
You know when he was climbing up the rocks just to stop things
39:48
getting a bit too straight around here, fellas.
39:52
Is the risk of that with you around you?
39:56
You can try. What a beautiful evening.
40:00
What a wonderful bunch of men. Where can people find you if you
40:07
wish them to discover you online on the back of this madness?
40:12
Let's start with Lee first. Come on, Lee, talk about the.
40:14
Ball I'll I'll always do this bit so well.
40:16
I'll I'll hand it to Cam to do this thing because I've always.
40:19
I mean the moral compass of the police box.
40:22
Camera The moral compass of the police box.
40:24
Well, if I'm doing the if I'm doing the plugs for both the
40:26
police box and I'm allowed to do my own stuff as well.
40:29
Oh. Please.
40:30
Alright, OK. We've lost all source tonight.
40:34
I I I am obviously 1/3 of the courtroom drama that is the
40:39
fullest box is is doctor guilty or not guilty of crimes against
40:43
who in which we pick an individual story, well an
40:46
individual series now and do the whole series from start to
40:49
finish. We are starting again on Lee
40:52
might have to do September the 18th. 18th, that's right, yeah.
40:56
The 18th, yes, we're starting to do Flux, so it's live on YouTube
41:03
at 8:00 PM on that particular Thursday evening.
41:06
If you join us for that and joining the chat, it's always
41:09
good. You're TuneIn for the second
41:11
episode because you're gonna see Michael Mills in tears in that
41:15
episode. You're gonna get that as well by
41:17
your hands. Right.
41:20
I am if if professional wrestling is your thing, I'm
41:23
also involved in a podcast about that called The Conquista Bores.
41:28
Searched for that on YouTube and you'll be able to see our videos
41:30
on there solo stuff I. Jesus Christ, how many fingers
41:37
have you got your pie? I do a lot of stuff.
41:39
This is why I threw it across to him.
41:42
We want to go to bed tonight, you know.
41:45
OK, one, one more thing, one more thing.
41:47
Oh no, go on. I I write stories which
41:52
sometimes get published and sometimes people pay me for,
41:55
which is nice. Please do if that's the thing
41:58
you want. But my back catalog of stuff can
42:01
be found on a website now called Cameron phillipswriter.co.uk.
42:06
That's Phillips with 2L. 'S wonderful and Andy.
42:13
How on earth am I supposed to follow on from that that, that,
42:16
that was magnificent. So you can find me predominantly
42:21
on X if you look for subutio under score paints.
42:25
So my little side hustle is I again in the world of subutio,
42:31
Subutio being miniature football players.
42:34
I paint iconic football strips from mult the multiple different
42:41
teams trying to recreate that sort of nostalgic feel for the
42:46
game, but also of football memorabilia.
42:50
So a good example is, you know, a friend of mine got in touch
42:55
with me. He's a Hearts fan.
42:56
His favorite strip is the 19861987 Hearts home strip.
43:02
It means a lot to him. It's the first season he started
43:04
going to football with his, with his his dad, dad, who's now
43:07
passed away. And he says, could you paint me
43:10
A19861987 heart strip to be framed?
43:15
It'll go alongside the strip that my dad bought me.
43:17
And that for me is that's that's why I do it.
43:21
So I have a look for me on X for subudio under score paint or
43:26
paint it maroon.co.uk and you can see my work and what I get
43:30
up to and. He is very, very good, by the
43:34
way. I will vote for that.
43:36
Yeah. What are you good to buy a
43:38
Sabutio? I'm going to go.
43:41
I want to find a Sabutio. Table See, this is the rabbit
43:46
hole that I had during lockdown when I went on to Amazon and
43:49
find you can't buy it anymore. But then finding myself on
43:53
Italian websites where they make and all that kind of stuff for a
43:57
ridiculous amount of money. So yeah, my wife has not has
44:01
has. My wife doesn't stop reminding
44:03
me. I've got a few back passages
44:06
into the dark web, you know, so I'm sure I'll be able to find
44:08
something. Fellas.
44:11
Honestly, you make me want to move to Scotland tomorrow.
44:14
It's an absolute delight to talk to all the three of you until
44:19
the next time we assemble to you.
44:22
Ready for this, Andy? To talk about The Beatles,
44:26
Frankenstein's monster as a robot, a mad, crazy person at
44:30
the top of the Empire State Building, living fungus,
44:35
mutations. I mean, we've got it all in the
44:37
chase. Thank you very much for your
44:40
time. Yeah, it's been an absolute
44:41
pleasure. Thank you, Joe.
44:43
Thanks all this George. Been bloody good again.
44:46
How out there? How long did we run for there?