Latest / FOLLOW / Who did God think up when he thought of you? /// FOLLOW

Transcript

Who did God think up when he thought of you? /// FOLLOW · FOLLOW

0:02
SPEAKER_01: How many decisions in my life, or how many hours in a year, have I been having this same loop playing, you're not enough, you're not enough, you're not enough.
0:19
SPEAKER_01: Both insecurities and narratives are just false stories.
0:23
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so insecurity is a false story about yourself, a narrative is a false story about another.
0:29
SPEAKER_02: It's hard work to identify, hey, what are the insecurities that I live out of?
0:33
SPEAKER_02: It's even harder work to like move out of these patterns.
0:37
SPEAKER_02: But if you will, if you do, this is what the Apostle Paul talks about, you know, renewing your mind.
0:44
SPEAKER_02: You will wake up one day, you'll start to feel more who you are.
0:49
SPEAKER_02: But it does take time and it takes work.
0:53
SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the Follow Podcast, a podcast that believes at its core, the single most important oriented belief that if Jesus is right about God and life and the human soul, then it would make sense that we rearrange our lives around what he says is true.
1:11
SPEAKER_02: So that's what we're exploring.
1:13
SPEAKER_02: All that Jesus said was true, and how to rearrange our lives around it.
1:26
SPEAKER_02: Book is called The Thing Beneath a Thing.
1:30
SPEAKER_02: Again, brilliant, brilliant title because as soon as you read it, every person who's ever found themselves like in a moment where you're like, wait, did I just say that?
1:46
SPEAKER_02: Did I just do that?
1:48
SPEAKER_02: Right?
1:49
SPEAKER_02: Like this idea that there is something lurking beneath the surface is I think most of us feel that.
1:58
SPEAKER_02: That there's something going on inside of me that I'm not fully aware of in those moments when you feel out of control, right?
2:08
SPEAKER_02: Like, oh gosh, what why did I do what I did?
2:12
SPEAKER_02: So I mean, just the the the book is an absolute gift, and it's really fun being able to just dive into some of um some of what you wrote, because it really is, man, brilliant.
2:23
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
2:24
SPEAKER_01: Thanks, man.
2:24
SPEAKER_01: Well, I I thought it was interesting um because you ended the last episode and you quoted uh you know, dear friend and mentor to both of us, John Orperg.
2:37
SPEAKER_01: Um and that quote was actually like really, really um helpful for me um years before I wrote the book.
2:48
SPEAKER_01: And so do you do you remember the quote what the quote was that you shared?
2:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, yeah, it was something along the lines of you know, the the journey back, this is the formation journey, is uh journeying back to the person God thought of when he thought us up, like that he thought us up.
3:08
SPEAKER_01: I think I think so many uh people, and I'll just speak candidly for about myself, I've never, I never until one day um when I was like in a casita, um, kind of in a process of trying to to of healing, um, and and I think my therapist had had mentioned that this quote, or the spiritual director I mean, had mentioned that quote, and basically was like what did God think of?
3:40
SPEAKER_01: Like what did like when you think of what God made you and what he thought up when he made you, what comes to mind?
3:50
SPEAKER_01: And I I had no answer.
3:52
SPEAKER_01: And he's like, You you if you're like if you have no answer to that, then all of the thoughts that start coming into your brain, you have nothing to put it up against.
4:03
SPEAKER_01: And so you're like, But once you know or have a sense of who it is that God thought up when he thought you up and brought you into this world at this time in human history when it could have been any time.
4:20
SPEAKER_01: Like, it just helps you.
4:22
SPEAKER_01: And so I say all that to go when for you, Eric.
4:26
SPEAKER_01: Like you you rattled off that quote.
4:29
SPEAKER_01: Like, I know you've done this kind of work, but like what?
4:32
SPEAKER_01: What do you feel like when God thought you up?
4:35
SPEAKER_01: What did he what did he think?
4:37
SPEAKER_01: And you can't like there's no false humility, there's no like uh like it is like I think God thought this up when he was like Eric Parks.
4:52
SPEAKER_02: You said I've done the work.
4:53
SPEAKER_02: Um I think you I think life forces you to do the work in order to come back to that reality.
5:01
SPEAKER_02: I I just I do because life is like there's so much happening to you and around you, um, forming and shaping you.
5:11
SPEAKER_02: Um and I think this is why oftentimes when we talk about formation, we say, hey, just so you know, formation isn't a Christian thing, it's a human thing because you're being formed all the time, like for real.
5:27
SPEAKER_02: Like all the things you watch, all the places you go, all the things you've been through, it is shaping you and forming you.
5:35
SPEAKER_02: And that is why so often we get to these places in our life, and when we're forced to look at what's been formed, you say, Who is the real thing?
5:44
SPEAKER_02: You go, I don't know.
5:46
SPEAKER_02: Because the Play-Doh that has been shaped by all of this life.
5:52
SPEAKER_02: Is this me?
5:53
SPEAKER_02: Is that it, right?
5:54
SPEAKER_02: That's been the word.
5:56
SPEAKER_02: But for me, um, if you're around me for very long, you'll know like um the the the person that God made when He He thought of me, when He thought me up is I am an adventurer to the to the I'm a seven to the seven, to the seven.
6:15
SPEAKER_02: Like um a great adventure, a great meal, great conversation, like wandering, and I use a phrase oftentimes, like uh, and I think it's probably the most truest sense of who I am and who God made me to be.
6:31
SPEAKER_02: And let's see what wants to happen.
6:33
SPEAKER_02: Right?
6:34
SPEAKER_02: Uh I just I love, I'm curious about the world, I'm curious about people, I want to see things, and um, and it, and when I am really truly at the center of who I am, um I'm not led by fear.
6:50
SPEAKER_02: I'm led by curiosity.
6:52
SPEAKER_02: Um I'm not defensive, I'm super open.
6:57
SPEAKER_02: I want to, I want to hear what you think.
7:00
SPEAKER_02: Even the things that are uncomfortable don't make me uncomfortable.
7:04
SPEAKER_02: And so um I think about myself as just like this, you know, uh adventuring soul, just going to see all that God has made.
7:14
SPEAKER_02: Like when I am at my best, it the those are all descriptors um of who I am.
7:22
SPEAKER_02: And and if you have lived much life with me, you can see it at times.
7:26
SPEAKER_02: Like we were talking about a few episodes ago, but um I keep track of everywhere I've ever been, any restaurant I've ever visited.
7:34
SPEAKER_02: Uh and um I'm always thinking about the next adventure I can take my kids on or I can go on with my friends.
7:42
SPEAKER_02: Um you walked the Camino, uh, and I am excited about this.
7:46
SPEAKER_02: This is a side note.
7:48
SPEAKER_02: It will be the truest sense of who I am.
7:50
SPEAKER_02: Um, we will be broadcasting multiple episodes of this podcast from the Camino later this year, uh, because I'll be going on the Camino because you inspire me.
8:02
SPEAKER_02: Like you went on that pilgrimage.
8:04
SPEAKER_02: And and so I mean, the uh for me, I don't know that I could have answered that with a ton of confidence uh five years ago because there was a narrative in my mind, uh, a shaping of that play-doh that um told me maybe a slightly different story, uh uh or a story that felt truer, right?
8:30
SPEAKER_02: And so uh that's been the work for me is getting back to to that picture.
8:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it's so beautiful.
8:38
SPEAKER_01: And I think the one other word I would add if I if I can is um how you don't do things alone.
8:48
SPEAKER_01: Like you are the the curiosity and the adventure or the meal, like one of your greatest joys is sharing that with another person.
8:57
SPEAKER_01: You keep the list so you can share it with other people.
9:00
SPEAKER_01: You you're going on the pilgrimage and you're sharing it with other people.
9:19
SPEAKER_01: This is like throwback for a lot of our listeners who don't know, but we we kind of spent a year with uh living in the seventh floor of an apartment building.
9:31
SPEAKER_01: Um and and this was like you know COVID.
9:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, COVID times.
9:36
SPEAKER_01: And like I was living in Arizona, but it was like I was coming and speaking at and at the church, but it was like cheaper for me to actually have like a one-bedroom little apartment that was on the same floor with three other staff members at this church, and it was like college all over again.
9:52
SPEAKER_01: But we the amount of nights we just were in your living room or in your kitchen, and it was again, it just was all of the truest true of you.
10:02
SPEAKER_01: Now, hold that statement, hold that like curious adventure, um like what shareable, like sharing, whatever that that that piece like, you know.
10:14
SPEAKER_01: Um like now, now let me add another Orbrig statement.
10:19
SPEAKER_01: Orberg says this line He says, uh you ought to arrange your days where you are experiencing the greatest level of contentment, joy, and confidence in your everyday walk with the Lord.
10:35
SPEAKER_01: So I love that statement.
10:36
SPEAKER_01: You should arrange your day where you're experiencing the greatest levels of being content, joy, and confidence in your everyday walk with the Lord.
10:46
SPEAKER_01: I started to think about that statement.
10:48
SPEAKER_01: I think that's a powerful statement.
10:50
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I like those three words.
10:52
SPEAKER_01: I like confidence, I like content, I like joy.
10:56
SPEAKER_01: But then I started thinking, and I haven't asked John this yet, and I'm going to, are those three the three words that would be the true is true of him?
11:08
SPEAKER_01: Because if you took those words for you, uh Eric, you ought to arrange your days where you are experiencing the deepest levels of curiosity, uh, adventure, and connection in your everyday walk with the Lord, wouldn't that be like the truest true of you now applied to 168 hours in a given week that God has given you?
11:34
SPEAKER_01: Now, again, like, are you gonna be able to go on adventures all the time?
11:38
SPEAKER_01: No, but like you're like the way you approach life as an adventure, the ideas that you have, and and so once you have that clarity and you start to like arrange your days, all of a sudden, when something comes into your life, you get triggered, or you end up having this invitation to a hideout.
11:56
SPEAKER_01: Now you have this thing, is like, and it's similar to Dallas's VIM, the vision, intention, and means you have something to run it against to go, well, if I run to this hideout, is this actually gonna help me become the most curious, adventurous, connected person in my everyday walk with the Lord, the true is true of me?
12:16
SPEAKER_01: No, it might be a false adventure, but it's an adventure away from me.
12:22
SPEAKER_01: It might, you know, and and all of the all of the sudden you have this like uh kind of ability to filter what your experience because what's primary is going, man, I I want to be who God thought up when He thought me up.
12:46
SPEAKER_01: And now that I I have a sense of that, let me try that on and let's see what that looks like and feels like.
12:57
SPEAKER_01: And once you have that, once you have that, then everything else that you start to feel goes, oh, that's if I say yes to this, I'm actually stepping outside, I'm stepping east of Eden in Steinbeck language, east of like who I was intended to be.
13:13
SPEAKER_01: And you either go, Yeah, I don't care, or you go, I don't want that.
13:18
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't lead to the life that was intended for me, or the life that's gonna be flourishing for me in the here and the now.
13:25
SPEAKER_01: And um, and then you're able to clearly, more clearly, in my opinion, identify, oh, that's of course that's just the enemy trying to make me insecure, or of course that's trying to get the enemy trying to get me to escape.
13:38
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if that's helpful, but that that became kind of a framework for helping me almost come back, you know, to center, to ground, level, to touch the bottom of the pool, whatever you, whatever language you want to use to get back to the true true is true of you.
14:11
SPEAKER_02: For so many of us, we don't know that, we don't live in that.
14:17
SPEAKER_02: Um instead, we live in like we do live in false stories, right?
14:23
SPEAKER_02: Um I think I think you use the idea of like insecurities and narratives.
14:28
SPEAKER_02: I think that's sort of like they they're almost paired.
14:32
SPEAKER_02: Um can you talk though?
14:34
SPEAKER_02: Because I think on the surface for a lot of people, they're like, well, that sounds really good.
14:38
SPEAKER_02: I don't even know how to get there.
14:40
SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm stuck in this this uh insecurity, this narrative.
14:45
SPEAKER_02: Could you talk and unpack just a little bit of um more about false narratives and insecurities and why they're paired together?
14:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
14:54
SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, I think a couple of pieces is um both insecurities and narratives are just false stories.
15:01
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
15:02
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
15:02
SPEAKER_01: So insecurity is a false story about yourself, a narrative is a false story about another.
15:06
SPEAKER_01: An insecurity is a false story and an inability chosen willfully to not see that you were created in the image of God, that you were created um in a way that God thought you up when he made you, like was the fulfillment of that.
15:23
SPEAKER_02: Insecurities are a false story about yourself.
15:27
SPEAKER_01: About yourself, totally and narratives isn't a willful inability to not see the Imago Day in another, to not see what God thought up in another person, just to see them for something they did in their past, the zip code that they live in, where they are from, the color of their skin, the teams that they like, whatever, whatever is gonna create some sense of us versus them.
15:55
SPEAKER_01: Both of it, both of them is something I refer to as Play-Doh theology.
16:00
SPEAKER_01: Because insecurity is when you start to shape and form yourself, and you go, look at me, I'm stupid.
16:07
SPEAKER_01: Look at me, I'm a screw up.
16:09
SPEAKER_01: All it is is you're just gossiping about yourself.
16:12
SPEAKER_01: That's and and we're we're always taught, don't gossip about another person, don't like shape someone into an image and then get other people to believe that.
16:19
SPEAKER_01: You're just gossiping about yourself.
16:21
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'm just a royal screw up, and you've shaped informed yourself not to see yourself as a child of God, of like words that we talked about for you, like curious, connector, adventurous, like you start to realize, like, oh yeah, that's like that's like who I am.
16:40
SPEAKER_01: And and now, yeah, did I make a decision that's outside of that?
16:44
SPEAKER_01: Yes, but that doesn't just because I made that decision that's outside of that doesn't mean that's who I am.
16:51
SPEAKER_01: That's not the person who I was intended to be was this.
16:54
SPEAKER_01: Now help me understand why I made that decision.
16:57
SPEAKER_01: Insecurity too, I think often when we get triggered um and we run to a hideout, that is the escaping of the feeling.
17:08
SPEAKER_01: Well, the insecurity has its own version of escaping because oftentimes in our insecurity, we just try to put on a mask to cover up.
17:18
SPEAKER_01: We try to cover up that feeling of shame, that cover up that feeling of uh, and usually the mask that we put on, you can see this.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: You can see it um in people you work with, you can see it uh in people that you're married to.
17:33
SPEAKER_01: Uh, it's harder sometimes to see it in yourself, but like the work to be done is to understand and ask yourself what why.
17:39
SPEAKER_01: But just a couple of the masks that we quickly put on.
17:43
SPEAKER_01: You know, you get like you feel insecure, and all of a sudden it's like I gotta be perfect.
17:50
SPEAKER_01: I and and you're just trying to cover up.
17:52
SPEAKER_01: I messed up, and so like and you you just know those people like it's just got to be perfect, and they can't ever even stumble, you can't give them feedback, you can't, they just the sense of even the ounce or a molecule of failure, um, they can't take it, and they put so much pressure on themselves, and it almost becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
18:14
SPEAKER_01: You also have the performer, and you just got like I it's too vulnerable to live in the curious, adventurous connector.
18:23
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I gotta perform because I don't know if you'll actually love me or see me as valuable, and so my insecurity comes out, and I'm gonna perform, and you're gonna see me by my performance.
18:33
SPEAKER_01: The the the other the other one is the pleaser.
18:37
SPEAKER_01: Um, I I I don't know how to live in the truest true of who God made me to be.
18:44
SPEAKER_01: And I don't think you're gonna think that's worthy because the insecurity lie.
18:48
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I've I've bought that false story that this isn't valued or worth it.
18:54
SPEAKER_01: So my job is to leave myself, put that on the shelf, and fawn and people please to, and that's the only way I'm gonna get some version of love.
19:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's not actually love, it's just transactional um kind of appreciation.
19:10
SPEAKER_01: Or you pretend.
19:12
SPEAKER_01: I I I'm gonna pretend that I'm something else because again, I feel insecure that this is enough, that what God thought up is enough for me to live fully into.
19:24
SPEAKER_01: And so I'm gonna pretend to be somebody, something else, because that will get me what I what I really, really desire, which is actually what God thought up when he made you, is that you're worth loving, but I don't think it's gonna be worth loving.
19:38
SPEAKER_01: Or there's another, and usually when we think of insecurity, we think of powering down.
19:45
SPEAKER_01: But if you grew up as like a child of an alcoholic, or you grew up in a house that was filled fraught with anger, you probably had a moment where like a parent was losing control of a moment and they slam their fist on the ground and they start screaming and cursing and yelling.
20:02
SPEAKER_01: And what do they do?
20:04
SPEAKER_01: They power up because they they they don't know how to say, I don't know what to do here, or I'm afraid, or I, or I I just don't feel like I'm being respected, or I'm I'm I'm scared that my words, whatever the three words, four words that God thought up when he made you, like I I don't feel like you're seeing me, and so instead of knowing how to sit with that tenderness, you power up and you by the fear and put the fear in another person so that they shut down and submit to you, and and you and you sit there and you go, that's all insecurity is you know, my I had a professor in college and he he uh I think he could see that I wrestled with this.
21:14
SPEAKER_01: I just had too many thoughts that were just coming in, landing in my brain.
21:18
SPEAKER_01: And he used to, before he taught Greek, his name was Nolful Staten, but before he taught Greek, it's awesome.
21:25
SPEAKER_01: K-N-O-F-E-L-L.
21:27
SPEAKER_01: No Nolful.
21:29
SPEAKER_01: But Nolfil, uh before he was a professor, was the air traffic control like lead at O'Hare Airport in the tower.
21:38
SPEAKER_01: And and I just never forget this.
21:40
SPEAKER_01: He goes, You want to know what real power is?
21:42
SPEAKER_01: Real power is like grounding Delta, real power is rerouting United to Milwaukee.
21:51
SPEAKER_01: Like, that's real power.
21:53
SPEAKER_01: And then he said, You should give yourself an airport code.
21:56
SPEAKER_01: He goes, What's your initial, Steve?
21:57
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, SRC.
21:58
SPEAKER_01: And he goes, All right, that's your airport code.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: And he goes, you have to understand, you are the air traffic controller of what you allowed to land in your brain and your heart.
22:07
SPEAKER_01: And so when those negative thoughts are coming to land, you ought to reroute them somewhere.
22:15
SPEAKER_01: And so he's like, where do you want to reroute them?
22:17
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Columbus, Ohio.
22:19
SPEAKER_01: Um, and he's like, and I was like, or Tuscaloosa, Alabama, uh, because those are the two college football teams I can't stand the most.
22:26
SPEAKER_01: But he was like, he was like, no, uh, you should probably say the cross.
22:30
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, that's that is a biblical answer.
22:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
22:34
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
22:34
SPEAKER_01: But to start to think about that, to go, I don't want anything to land that's gonna get me away from the truest true of who God thought up when he thought you and I up.
22:46
SPEAKER_01: And so any voice of the enemy is gonna try to get to land, not landing here, go somewhere else, not landing here, go somewhere else.
22:53
SPEAKER_01: All those insecurity, all of that like dysfunction, all of the toxic negativity, all of like the enemy's work to steal, kill, and destroy my true is true.
23:05
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to hand that over to him anymore.
23:08
SPEAKER_01: And so learning that learning where my typical insecure response, and for me it was performer and pleaser.
23:16
SPEAKER_01: Those are my two um that I'll typically go to, um, is then being aware to go, and I I don't need to leave myself.
23:24
SPEAKER_01: I don't, I it it doesn't, it doesn't pay off.
23:27
SPEAKER_01: I don't like who I am after, I don't like who I am during.
23:31
SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of the the the piece of the insecurity side.
23:35
SPEAKER_02: Then just before we move on to narrative, um for someone who is newly stepping into the work, like of identifying um, you know, what are the things that can land in in the airport of my mind, what does that process look like?
23:57
SPEAKER_02: What have you learned about um the process of identifying your insecurities?
24:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, great question, great question.
24:07
SPEAKER_01: I th you know that that the verse that has been used in like majority of weddings that have ever taken place, you know, 1 Corinthians 13, we we know all about you know what love is.
24:21
SPEAKER_01: And and then chapter 14, it continues on, and there's this um uh there's this kind of sense of uh what like the words of God, like what what they're what they are, and they're and then they're talking about like people who like have a word from God to another person.
24:46
SPEAKER_01: So now just if it's a word from God to another person, just imagine God's word to you, um, listener, and to me.
24:52
SPEAKER_01: It's it's words that are strengthening, encouraging, and comforting.
24:58
SPEAKER_01: So what so what what's God gonna do?
25:00
SPEAKER_01: Oh, he's gonna strengthen you to live more into the trueest true of you, he's gonna encourage you to live more in the truest true of you, he's gonna comfort you when you live outside the truest, true of you.
25:11
SPEAKER_01: Well, let's think about this.
25:14
SPEAKER_01: Uh the voice of the enemy is not strengthening you.
25:17
SPEAKER_01: Now he might he might try to tempt you to say, oh no, no, this is really gonna strengthen you.
25:23
SPEAKER_01: Like, or he's not gonna encourage you, he's gonna discourage you because like you would never be like God would never like it's all shame.
25:32
SPEAKER_01: He's not gonna comfort you, he's gonna isolate you.
25:35
SPEAKER_01: He's gonna try to, and we see this like, you know, if you watch anything on like the National Geographic Channel, it's like what are what are the the cheetahs trying to do?
25:44
SPEAKER_01: They're trying to get one animal away from the pack, and you got the British guy going, look at the cheetahs move so gracefully, you know, they're just trying to get the the the the the part isolated from the pack.
25:57
SPEAKER_01: That's what the enemy does.
25:58
SPEAKER_01: So so so find yourself as you're going down the down through your day, going and ask yourself, is that thought, as Paul will say, take every thought captive, is that thought uh strengthening me to be uh more in line with the trueest true of who God thought me up to be?
26:17
SPEAKER_01: Is this actually gonna encourage me to be more and more into the trueest true of who God thought me up to be?
26:26
SPEAKER_01: Is this gonna actually comfort me?
26:28
SPEAKER_01: And if it's not, it's probably an insecurity.
26:32
SPEAKER_01: So write that down.
26:34
SPEAKER_01: And and you write down those insecurities, and now you've got a list, and you go, okay, I'm starting to learn the play, I'm starting to learn the playbook, and and then when you're under stress, which which lies come up?
26:45
SPEAKER_01: When you make a bad decision and you sin, what lies come up?
26:50
SPEAKER_01: You just start looking at all of the voices, and you go, and you go, oh my gosh.
26:56
SPEAKER_01: And this is there's this is the reality.
26:58
SPEAKER_01: There will be a moment where you'll go, how many decisions in my life, or how many hours in a year have I been having this same loop of playing?
27:13
SPEAKER_00: You're not enough.
27:15
SPEAKER_01: You're not enough, you're not enough, you're such a blank up, you're such a screw.
27:22
SPEAKER_01: Uh like, and and now if now just play this thought out.
27:26
SPEAKER_01: Just play it out.
27:28
SPEAKER_01: What kind of wise, profoundly whole, as you would say, Lee, what decisions will you make from that lie?
27:40
SPEAKER_01: And then and you play that back and you go, oh my gosh.
27:44
SPEAKER_01: Now it's like this repeating cyclical cycle because the enemy's like, oh, you didn't do the work to take the thought captive.
27:52
SPEAKER_01: I got you.
27:52
SPEAKER_01: That's the formation part.
27:54
SPEAKER_01: And now you're making decisions, which is just further creating the shame or the isolation farther and farther east of Eden from who you were intended to be.
28:04
SPEAKER_01: And now you're like, I don't know what voice is true.
28:09
SPEAKER_02: So Carter, and I want to encourage our listeners too, because um, many of these insecurities they have um built up over time.
28:21
SPEAKER_02: They have been um the reason why we live out of them is because they've been a part of our our life for so long.
28:30
SPEAKER_02: I heard um, I I think it was Mike Brough.
28:33
SPEAKER_02: He talked about the way in which our mind works.
28:36
SPEAKER_02: And um and I I've told this story that so often, you know, we we we come to to Christ and and we are, you know, new creations, right?
28:50
SPEAKER_02: But it's still a journey back to that new creation because we've set um in motion all of these insecurities as like living modules.
29:01
SPEAKER_02: We've lived out of our insecurity for many of us for years, for decades, right?
29:05
SPEAKER_02: And I uh I thought about it, you know, this is probably not the best analogy, but it's one that comes to mind.
29:14
SPEAKER_02: It's like, hey, the reason why so often um you you come to Jesus, you begin to follow him, but you don't feel new is because those insecurities have lived with you for so long.
29:27
SPEAKER_02: It's like, you know, my guy Bo Nicks, he uh he came to Denver and he he was playing football in Oregon.
29:40
SPEAKER_02: And um I just imagine that um his first few weeks, even though like transactionally he signed on the data line after the the draft and he became a Bronco.
29:53
SPEAKER_02: I just wonder like when did he start to feel like a Bronco?
29:57
SPEAKER_02: Because the truth is, is like he'd never driven to Dove Valley, he didn't know the routine, he didn't know what it was like to go from Castle Rock and where he, you know, he lives down in Castle Pines, down to um the um workout center.
30:10
SPEAKER_02: He knew the pattern of being a duck.
30:13
SPEAKER_02: Like he knew how to get to that facility, he knew how to get to uh the practice place.
30:18
SPEAKER_02: He, I bet you felt like an Oregon duck for a while until he created these new patterns, right?
30:27
SPEAKER_02: And I think my encouragement is like, this is why identifying these insecurities are so important because it's really hard to live a new way if you don't know the thing that got you has you, right?
30:39
SPEAKER_02: If these insecurities have you, and to give yourself enough grace to go, look, identifying these insecurities in your life that have shipwrecked you, that's the start.
30:54
SPEAKER_02: But it takes time to begin to live out of those toward this version of you that God had in mind.
31:01
SPEAKER_02: And so to our listeners, I just want to encourage you.
31:04
SPEAKER_02: It's like, look, it's hard work to identify, hey, what are the insecurities that I live out of?
31:10
SPEAKER_02: It's even harder work to like move out of these patterns.
31:14
SPEAKER_02: But if you will, if you do, there will be this is what the apostle Paul talks about, you know, renewing your mind.
31:23
SPEAKER_02: You will wake up one day and you'll feel like a Bronco.
31:27
SPEAKER_02: You'll start to feel more who you are.
31:30
SPEAKER_02: Um, but it does take time and it takes work.
31:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's so good, Eric.
31:53
SPEAKER_01: I I love that, you know, because you think about, you know, when Bo was an Oregon duck and he's playing for Dan Lanning, and you know, he's he's the big man on campus, and you know, he's just he he he he knows the playbook in and out, he's got the green light, everything, and then he goes to play with arguably one of the more complex uh coaches to play for and have to learn the system.
32:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, and someone who doesn't give trust right away in Sean Payton, you've gotta you've gotta own it, you've got to know, and it's a different system, it's different plays.
32:31
SPEAKER_01: And all of that, um, and you're you're not the best player on the field like you once were.
32:39
SPEAKER_01: You you are one of 53 other guys, and you and just all of those thoughts.
32:46
SPEAKER_01: And and yet as the game, and they'll talk about this, uh, the more that you start to to trust that process, the more the game starts to slow down.
32:58
SPEAKER_01: And and that's the same thing in formation.
33:00
SPEAKER_01: The more that you can start to experience, oh, life starts to slow down, and you and you go, and you look back and you go, dude, four years ago, two months ago, I I would have lost my ever-loving mind in that situation.
33:20
SPEAKER_01: Two months ago.
33:21
SPEAKER_01: I would have and then you know you step back and go, thanks be to God, like this and doesn't mean like okay, one and done, like I've now fixed it.
33:31
SPEAKER_01: Um that that's like you said, those insecurities, this stuff is lived with you, but you can see the progression and a new kind of fruit that is being formed and shaped.
33:43
SPEAKER_01: And it's like in those moments, you gotta step back and go, God, thank you.
33:48
SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's when your kids look at you, or your grandkids, or your spouse, or your friends, and they can see it.
33:55
SPEAKER_01: But deep down, whether they see it or not, you know, like, oh, we can do this.
34:01
SPEAKER_01: God, we did this.
34:02
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
34:04
SPEAKER_02: That's the that's the thing that is the most beautiful about you know, diving into the thing beneath the thing.
34:13
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I love that you know, we didn't even talk about this.
34:18
SPEAKER_02: Thing is an acronym for you, right?
34:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um say say that acronym.
34:23
SPEAKER_01: Uh triggers, hideouts, insecurities, narratives, grace.
34:28
SPEAKER_01: And so the kind of concept was typically you have four places you'll go when you get triggered.
34:33
SPEAKER_01: You're gonna go to a hideout, you're gonna go to insecurity, you're gonna go to a narrative, or you can welcome Grace.
34:39
SPEAKER_02: Grace.
34:39
SPEAKER_02: And that's the journey, right?
34:41
SPEAKER_02: I that's what I love about it is um those first those first three, um it I I it it they're easy to go to because of how our brain is wired, right?
34:54
SPEAKER_02: Like we uh we incomplete narratives, incomplete stories, we sort of fill in the blanks.
35:02
SPEAKER_02: And and but there is this journey towards grace, which is what all this is about, that as we started the episode, takes us back to our origin story, right?
35:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, who we really are.
35:15
SPEAKER_02: And it takes time.
35:16
SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's the thing, uh, probably the thing I've learned the most in the last few years is this is not like a linear journey.
35:24
SPEAKER_02: So like one day I read the book, and then I have a paradigm, and then the next day everything is working just right.
35:34
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's sometimes, you know, two steps forward, a few steps back, but uh it's why I I use that story, and I love how you said that around Blow.
35:45
SPEAKER_02: It's like, look, in time, if you'll stick with this, if you can, you know, continue down the path towards grace, that I visit grace more often than I do my insecurity, that I visit grace more often than I do the narrative, that I visit grace instead of more often than I do my hangouts.
36:07
SPEAKER_02: Um and the Apostle Paul is is really encouraging this.
36:10
SPEAKER_02: He's he's saying, like, um, you know, when we think on these things, right?
36:15
SPEAKER_02: When we renew our mind, renewing is not a one, one day thing.
36:21
SPEAKER_02: It is like if I visit grace more often than I do these other things in time, I will be more shaped by grace.
36:31
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it it just makes sense, right?
36:32
SPEAKER_02: Like if you go, well, whatever I visit the most, I will be shaped the most by.
36:37
SPEAKER_02: And so uh, the more we can continue to drive toward grace, understanding who we really are, understanding how much we're loved, um uh the narratives that seem, the insecurities, the hideouts that seem so much a part of us, we begin to wake up and go, Oh, I don't run to that narrative naturally anymore because I've chosen grace on purpose so often, right?
37:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I just think it's beautiful.
37:10
SPEAKER_01: Well, and and again, just as you and then all of a sudden scripture just like you kind of alluded, it just makes sense.
37:16
SPEAKER_01: Like when Paul says, Hey, let your gentleness be evident to all.
37:20
SPEAKER_01: You're gentle because you're like, you're living into your true is true.
37:22
SPEAKER_01: Why?
37:23
SPEAKER_01: Because the Lord is near.
37:24
SPEAKER_01: And then he says, Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, hey, by prayer and petition with thanksgiving, present your request to God, and the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, is gonna guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
37:37
SPEAKER_01: And so there's something like really, really beautiful beautiful that there is a peace that transcends all understanding, and that man, your hearts, your minds are going to be guarded from you leaving the true is true of you.
37:47
SPEAKER_01: And then he says these words.
37:48
SPEAKER_01: He goes, Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things.
38:07
SPEAKER_01: Like and whatever you have learned or received or heard from me or seen in me, put into practice, and the God of peace will be with you.
38:14
SPEAKER_01: Like it's again, there's a setting of your mind, there is a mindset, and too often when we don't bring intention into that, what happens is the insecurity takes over.
38:27
SPEAKER_01: And it's a lack of security.
38:29
SPEAKER_01: We're a lack of feeling that sense of I'm okay.
38:35
SPEAKER_01: And so the false narrative of I'm not okay when when the you believe that the Lord is near, you don't have to be anxious about anything.
38:46
SPEAKER_01: When you believe that the Lord is near, and I I can actually with prayer and petition bring this.
38:50
SPEAKER_01: When I believe that the Lord is near, man, I don't have to believe this lie.
38:54
SPEAKER_01: The Lord is near.
38:55
SPEAKER_01: I can I can actually start to lean into what is true and what is pure and what is lovely.
38:59
SPEAKER_01: So all of what you're saying, I think is so true.
39:01
SPEAKER_01: You start to see scripture and you go, that makes sense.
39:05
SPEAKER_01: And then you apply it and you go, that actually works for my life.
39:08
SPEAKER_01: And your family thanks you, and your grandkids thank you.
39:13
unknown: Yeah.
39:13
SPEAKER_02: As you do this, um there's there's listeners who are probably sitting in it right now, right?
39:20
SPEAKER_02: Where they are at a point um of really trying to understand who God made them to be.
39:26
SPEAKER_02: Uh, maybe the crisis has brought it out.
39:29
SPEAKER_02: Um not sure.
39:31
SPEAKER_02: We get to these points different ways, each and every one of us.
39:35
SPEAKER_02: But I I wonder if you couldn't just speak to that person for a bit on what you've learned and encouragement for where they might find themselves.
39:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:45
SPEAKER_01: Again, you know, you'll hear this from Eric and me again and again, is that this is a lifelong journey.
39:52
SPEAKER_01: So if you don't have it all, and even though Eric has three words right now of curious and connector and adventurous, um, you know, as he continues in this life, he might flip a word, he might add a word, he might switch a word.
40:08
SPEAKER_01: Um, but all it is is for right now, I'm holding these words as as kind of almost a guiding post to think through of how God made me.
40:17
SPEAKER_01: And there was a a real incredible thought leader, Marcus Buckingham, and and he he talked about the difference between a hobby and a calling.
40:25
SPEAKER_01: And he said, you got to just look for the signs.
40:28
SPEAKER_01: And and I thought that was really, really helpful.
40:31
SPEAKER_01: And he said the S just is something you have success in.
40:33
SPEAKER_01: You might love the game of ping pong, but if if you like you lose to your eight-year-old grandson, that's not a calling.
40:40
SPEAKER_01: It's probably just a hobby, right?
40:41
SPEAKER_01: It's like, but what what do you find success in?
40:44
SPEAKER_01: There's success when people love the ideas that Eric dreams up or the adventures people actually want to go on when Eric invites them.
40:52
SPEAKER_01: There's a there's there's and and all of a sudden sometimes like you just have to like look for them and go, that just felt right.
41:00
SPEAKER_01: Um, that's where the eye is, it's intuitive.
41:02
SPEAKER_01: It just like you don't have to work at it, it just it just comes naturally.
41:05
SPEAKER_01: Eric doesn't have to work at being curious, it's just true of who he is.
41:12
SPEAKER_01: Dude's searching for adventure, it's just who he is.
41:16
SPEAKER_01: It's it's not just intuitive, but you actually grow doing it.
41:20
SPEAKER_01: You hear Eric, and you're gonna hear it in the the months to come as he goes on this pilgrimage.
41:25
SPEAKER_01: You're gonna hear the the the longing for growth.
41:29
SPEAKER_01: Like this is like he's gonna grow in ways and and it's almost gonna like lose track of time.
41:38
SPEAKER_01: Like this is just the uh like a it doesn't mean it's not hard, but pilgrimage isn't easy, but the growth uh just is um incredible, and then the end is it actually fills a great need.
41:53
SPEAKER_01: But um, when you start to realize and see that who God made you at this specific time, whether you're in crisis, whether you're you're in an incredible season of your life, like the world needs the truest true of you, and and and you actually believe that and see that.
42:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, because you could have been born in the 50s, um, you could have been an adolescent in 1870, you could have been, you know, in the 13th century, but it's this time.
42:25
SPEAKER_01: It somehow not just your kids and your spouse, but there is a a community, um, a church, a world that needs that true is true of you for such a time as this in the language of Esther.
42:38
SPEAKER_01: And so, so look for that.
42:39
SPEAKER_01: Just spend your time with the Lord.
42:41
SPEAKER_01: Ask ask some people, hey, when you think of the true is true of me, what do you think that is?
42:47
SPEAKER_01: What do you see?
42:48
SPEAKER_01: And and then test it.
42:51
SPEAKER_01: Is that when I try that on, does it just feel pretty natural, or does it feel like man, I'm wearing somebody else's clothes?
42:57
SPEAKER_01: Um, do I grow by doing it and living into it?
43:01
SPEAKER_01: And does it actually seem to be a need that is a blessing to others?
43:06
SPEAKER_01: Because remember, the blessing of the adventurer, connector, and curious one and Eric, it's blessed to be a blessing.
43:14
SPEAKER_01: And so it's for the benefit of another.
43:16
SPEAKER_01: And so just think through that.
43:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, and and know that as time goes on, um, you'll probably even grow in more wisdom of what those words are, and you might find an even stronger word or better word, but um the the journey of just going on it is uh is pretty much half the battle.
43:38
SPEAKER_02: Encourage our listeners, uh uh if you haven't picked up the book, The Thing Beneath the Thing that Steve wrote, I promise you it is worth every minute you could invest in it.
43:51
SPEAKER_02: Uh, regardless of where you find yourself, it is truly a gift uh to the kingdom.
43:56
SPEAKER_02: You're a gift, bro, uh, to the kingdom, and love being able to do this with you.
44:01
SPEAKER_02: Um, but let me let me end us with this.
44:03
SPEAKER_02: I want to uh I want to end us with a blessing uh for all those that are here, uh dialed in, and for some that may find themselves struggling.
44:13
SPEAKER_02: I just I wanna I want to give you this blessing.
44:17
SPEAKER_02: May you stop performing and start becoming.
44:22
SPEAKER_02: May the Father's voice outgrow every voice that named you wrongly.
44:29
SPEAKER_02: May your hardest places become the places grace find you, and may you become, at the face of grace, exactly who he made you to be.
44:42
SPEAKER_02: Grace and peace.
45:14
SPEAKER_02: Something landed for you in this conversation.
45:16
SPEAKER_02: Don't just let it sit.
45:18
SPEAKER_02: Take it with you, carry it into your week, talk about it with someone, let it do something in you.
45:24
SPEAKER_02: And if you want to go deeper, click on the link in the show notes.
45:27
SPEAKER_02: We'll be back soon with more.
45:29
SPEAKER_02: So until then, keep rearranging, keep following.