Latest / For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast / #282 - For Azeroth!: “Mannyfest Miracle”

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#282 - For Azeroth!: “Mannyfest Miracle” · For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast

0:00
So like, you know how like Raider IO has its roots.
0:02
Well, Raider iOS roots aren't going to be relevant to to
0:05
people. So we're going to have Lexus
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roots. You think Raider IO is not just
0:10
going to develop two different sets of roots?
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Oh. I think I'm.
0:14
Not driving us anymore. It's Bunton.
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It's the Bunton does them and and she already does two
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different routes. She does for the pro I think
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have. Spent most of this conversation
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thinking you guys were talking R0 0TF and I was like I was
0:28
sitting like doing like mental math like what?
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OK like what? What do I think Raider IO roots
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are? It's just like the like core of
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the group and I just finally got up for.
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The carriage. Because we're Canadian, the
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route. Route for calendar.
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To the burning region for Gilnaeus or has not died, for
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the Lich King, for the Sindorai? For the alliance.
0:57
For the horn for Azeroth. Hello and welcome to another
1:06
episode of For Azeroth. I am one of your hosts, part of
1:11
the Triumphant. I am Manny Akia, the true
1:13
villain Manny, and this week I am joined by both of the other
1:18
parts of the Triumphant. Joining us from the new digs is
1:23
Lex. Lex, how are you this week?
1:25
I'm great. I spent so much time outside.
1:28
I have gone in the I have literally been in the forest
1:30
every single day. This is I'm living the dream.
1:32
Oh, but World of Warcraft wives? Really tragic 'cause my
1:35
internet's terrible. Oh OK so more more IRL forest,
1:40
less L wind forest. Got it.
1:42
I'll laugh. We will go to L Wind though, I
1:44
swear. OK.
1:46
All right. John, have have you had some
1:48
more time in the World of Warcraft and Lex?
1:52
Well, more than 0. Yep, I've had way more than
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zero. More than zero.
1:57
I I spent most of this week in the beta.
2:00
I got my mythic feroc mount on our kill on Thursday.
2:07
My Guild does a a kill every Thursday.
2:09
It was my turn to get them out. Yeah.
2:11
And then just beta raid testing. Beta dungeon testing.
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And that's pretty much it. And this shirt makes me look
2:18
thin her, Thin her Thin her. You know, I, I'm really glad
2:26
that you've got that shirt and the URS doing the lifting.
2:28
No, I'm joking. That was horrible.
2:32
Manny, we're going to fight later, right around Line 8.
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OK, But I'm really glad that you've been having some time in
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the beta. We're going to be leaning on
2:44
your expertise this week. In fact, why don't we go right
2:47
into the first news story here, which is all about big changes
2:52
on the beta. So many wins.
2:54
So I'm going to give you the quick hitter wins off the bat
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first, did we talked about this last week in your war within in
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the war within any character can view the collection appearances
3:06
of any other class that you have without logging off.
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So in your collections tab, there's a drop down menu that
3:12
that says class. So you'll be on your character.
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So it says, say I'm on my warrior and there's a drafted
3:16
menu that says Rogue and I can just click it and it shows me
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all my rogue appearances that I have massive win, big win coming
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through with the wins. That's not the one we want to
3:26
talk about, is it? Manny?
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That's not you. Didn't you?
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Didn't team me up talking about that, did you?
3:30
There was some quality of life and I'm glad that you got to
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talk about that. Let's go to Lex and talk about
3:34
what's actually happening with our show notes here.
3:37
Lex, we have some Mythic Plus stuff.
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Would you like to take it away? Yeah, so they, they did a ton on
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Mythic Plus. It was very embarrassing because
3:46
we dropped an episode on Tuesday where I'll only speak for
3:50
myself, but I was like, I don't think Blizzard knows what to do
3:53
with Mythic Plus because they're giving us this whole lot that,
3:55
you know, this whole thing of like what they want in Mythic
3:57
Plus. And then what they're actually
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showing us with the affix is so different.
4:02
Like they don't know what they're doing.
4:03
They should just get they what is happening.
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And then literally the day the episode came out, they decided
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to announce they were fundamentally changing Mythic
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Plus. So thank you Blizzard, but also
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thank you Blizzard. It's a good, it's a good change.
4:16
So they removed all affixes except for Tyrannical and
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Fortified, including all of the new ones that they had just
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floated that everyone was cranky about and that we were cranky
4:27
about as well. They added Zalatas Bargain,
4:31
which will apply from keys from 2:00 to 11:00.
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There are two versions, one of which there will be 4 waves of
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five orbs which will empower enemies, but if we catch them
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instead of letting the enemies catch them, then we get cool
4:47
kiss curse as we love to say. The second option is that when a
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non boss enemies are at 30% health, they will become
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frenzied. This will increase their haste
5:00
by 40%, but it will also increase the damage they're
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taking by 20%. So it'll be easier to kill, but
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they'll also be killing you a lot more than at level 4.
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Keystone level 4, you'll get either Tranquil or Fortified.
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And then at 7 and above, Challenger's Peril comes in.
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This means that when you die, it takes 15 seconds off your timer
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instead of five seconds. So it makes deaths much worse,
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right? So, so when you die or when you
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wipe it, it kills your key a lot more.
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At level 10, Tranquil and Fortified will both be active.
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And then if you remember from last episode, we were saying
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Blizzard wanted to make it so that the people who are really
5:41
pushing keys don't feel the effect of the affixes quite as
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much so that they can really focus on timing it and and going
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as quickly as possible. So at level 12 and above,
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Valtath Bargain will be replaced by Valtath Dial.
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It gives enemy creatures an additional 20% extra health and
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cause them to deal 20% increased damage, but you no longer have
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the orbs or the frenzy. Yeah, wins.
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All I do is win, win, win no matter what.
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Yeah, I'm very excited. I think this is less confusing,
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this I think I'd like as somebody who doesn't push keys,
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I don't know if it's true that the people who are at the top
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keys just don't want affixes, but everyone else does want
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affixes. But I'm I'm not unhappy.
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I'm not going to reach level 12, so it doesn't affect me at all.
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I think these seem like a lot more fun.
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They seem a lot less stressful. There's a lot fewer, which means
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that it's going to be a lot less brainpower and a lot less scary
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as a new player to be like, oh, I don't, you know, there's two
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affixes you need to learn. Yeah.
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I think this is great. I think these are all great
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changes. OK.
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So, Sean? Yeah.
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Been playing through these talking.
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Tell us about the bargain here, the stuff that's happening from
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2 through till 11, Like there's two versions of it.
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How were these playing during your testing?
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For sure. I'd love to talk about that
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Dormorumu. I've come to bargain.
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I love. First of all, I just want to say
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I love these changes. These are fantastic changes.
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Now I am very firmly in the camp of no affixes is better.
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That being said, the affixes that exist now as Altav's
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Bargain and so the Frenzy and the Ascendant, they're both
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good. They are actual fun.
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This isn't like they're actually so let me rephrase that.
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One of them is actually fun. One of them basically doesn't
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exist. So that's even better for you.
7:44
That's even better for me. Yeah.
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So it's not like entangling where you can sort of ignore it
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or volcanic where you can sort of ignore it.
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It's actively fun to. And and you know, that's why
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people like those. Oh, I like entangling because I
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can basically ignore it. I, I actually found myself and
8:00
the people I was testing with actually found ourselves
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enjoying the orb affix. So the way the orb affix works
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is you're in the dungeon, you're in combat, Zalatath appears and
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she spawns as, as luck said, four waves of five orbs.
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Each orb has a cast bar. I'm not sure what the cast time
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is, but it's long. It's like 4:00-ish seconds,
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maybe 5 seconds. It's long and you have to
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disrupt those casts. For every orb that you disrupt,
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everyone in your party gets 1% a haste and movement speed.
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And for every orb that completes its cast, all of the mobs that
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are currently in combat gets 10 percent, 10% haste.
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I'm pretty sure it's haste. Is it haste or is it damage
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done? Does it say anything anyway?
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It's either haste or it's damage done.
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Whatever it is, it doesn't matter because it's so much fun
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doing it that they're never going to get empowered.
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But it's, it's do you see the orbits?
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You have a lot of time and you say, so you have to disrupt
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them. So how do we disrupt them?
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Any AOE disruption will get them.
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One of the, the biggest complaints that I encountered
9:06
this week while playing was I would cue into a dungeon with
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somebody. And so a mage, for example, this
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actually was on Thursday. We went into a dungeon with a
9:14
mage and we were, some of us were talking about how good the
9:16
affixes were and they said, oh, I don't like this new orb one.
9:19
I only have one ability that can take care of it.
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And he was talking about Dragon's Breath, but he was
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wrong. He has three abilities that
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could take care of it. Dragon's Breath, Blast Wave, and
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Ring of Frost. And there's another one that
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somebody else mentioned that might also work.
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So I think early bumps in the road might be people who think
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they don't have a lot of and that's their AOE abilities.
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But you can still single target counter spell it.
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You can single so you can hit it with a trank shot if you're a
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hunter, a counter shot if if you're a hunter, the explosive
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trap of your hunter. So there are any single target
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stun or interrupt works and AO ES work.
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And it turns out players have a lot more ways to deal with it.
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It's very similar to the Razzageth sparks.
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If you remember those when you fought Razzageth, you had to
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disrupt those. So ring a piece, for example.
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So if you haven't played it yet and you're on a class, write any
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AOE like read through your ability, like actually read your
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abilities and don't just install the Wowhead gestic build and
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then say this is all I run. I don't know what any of this
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actually does, read your abilities, because some of them
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might actually work to interrupt it.
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But we found ourselves actively like finding the most efficient
10:26
ways to line up to get them. We were in a group, we had a
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druid healer and we didn't realize it, but they were going
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into bear form in cap roaring and just nuking all of them in
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one shot. It was so much fun.
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And they were like, yeah, no, why wouldn't I do this?
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It was just so much fun dealing with that affix.
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I haven't honestly, I've been playing mythic plus since PFA.
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I've never had an affix outside of awakened that I actually
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enjoyed except for this one. It was it was actually.
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It was fun enough that if I don't do keys above 12 I won't
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be unhappy. I I I won't be unhappy.
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And the other affix is the enemies get hasted and they
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increase damage taken below 30%. And they alternated days which
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one you had in the days when the enemies had that as a tank.
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Now we were only doing +4. So as you get up to plus 11,
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this will this will change a little bit.
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But at +4 scaled the gear level 587.
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I basically if you had told me that there was no affixes, I
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would have believed you. I've noticed no difference.
11:30
Yeah, so love it. Love the changes.
11:34
Very excited. Nice.
11:37
So you and I had tested on one of the days and I had tested on
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a day without you as well. I I did find that these are very
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straightforward, very easy to read, though.
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They do a really good job of telegraphing the ascendant form.
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And then, yeah, because the frenzy is so passive, it's, it's
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actually very, it's just such a run-of-the-mill sort of thing
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that you just think it's one of the abilities that all of these
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creature creatures have. So the ascendant is great
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because Zalatath will show up, there will be a big, big
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warning. She'll cast a spell, and then
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the waves will come out. It's always targeted near one of
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your players. So I've seen what I'm thinking.
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What will most likely happen is that there will be a weak aura
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giving the kind of cool countdown, much like you see
12:35
with Quaking or some of some of those other ones that happen on
12:38
particular intervals, at which point people will be like, OK,
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it's coming up. Let's move into a position where
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we're going to be able to deal deal with it.
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Well, I was worried like that it would suck if it's like, oh, you
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just basically killed an enemy and now, now Zaltath is spawning
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those waves. But as, as we saw when we were
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testing it, that movement speed works so well to just be like,
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OK, power up, run right into the next, next pack.
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Let's do this. And the the last part about it
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is that when you're, when you're dealing with this, because it is
13:15
such a good buff for your damage dealers, your tanks, not so much
13:21
he healing like haste is never something healers are like
13:24
crying, crying about. But because of because of that,
13:30
everybody wants to participate. This is not something where you
13:34
throw it to somebody be like, oh, listen, this is this is not
13:37
something I want to deal with. Let's make it a healer problem.
13:39
Let's make it a tank problem. This is something that
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everybody's like, yeah, let's let's do it.
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Let's do it as fast as possible because I want that buff as fast
13:46
as possible. And I think that's a really good
13:48
way of doing the kiss curse. Yeah, yeah.
13:51
And then for the frenzy, Sean, you had saying that you were
13:55
that you had seen in a discord where people like myself that
13:59
were worried that like, OK, this kind of benefits execution
14:04
windows. It's really not that that much
14:07
of an issue because the increased damage means less
14:10
GCDS, which means that it somewhat evens out.
14:13
You're not looking at pushing execution classes on on those
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weeks. Is that true?
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I know that I'm. Yeah, I couldn't.
14:21
I went back to find it, but I couldn't find which one it was.
14:25
But yeah, it was basically that was it?
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It was. There's not going to be a reason
14:28
to stack execution classes A, because it doesn't go above 11.
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So nothing above 11 will live that long anyway.
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It's more like when you're looking at the infinite scaling.
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But because everybody's getting that, that increased damage
14:39
done. So it's like an even increase
14:41
across the board. It it's not, there is some
14:43
slight edge to execution classes, but not in a situation
14:46
where you would either A hold cooldowns for that phase or B
14:51
stack execution classes. It wouldn't be.
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It's not that much of a difference.
14:56
So with all of these in mind, I think that this is a pretty
15:00
straight, straightforward sort of progression.
15:03
Like like you're saying Lex right at the beginning of the
15:06
key, you know, you're dealing with this Zalatath bargain,
15:09
whether it is a frenzier ascended one at 4 plus you get
15:12
your first taste of fortified or tyrannical, right?
15:16
That's a very straightforward just extra health, extra damage
15:19
to either the the bosses or the the trash, the bargain just
15:25
meaning that your deaths or sorry, not the bargain, but the
15:27
peril, meaning that your deaths count more.
15:29
Again, really straightforward. And of course when you when you
15:34
hit that 10 and the other one of fortified or tyrannical comes
15:38
in, that means that at 10 plus you are dealing with very
15:44
consistent meta. Everybody's dealing with the
15:47
rotating, the the rotating ascended or frenzy, and both
15:53
fortified and tyrannical are on your keys.
15:57
It becomes even less of a variation once you hit that 12
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and it shuts down the bargain and you deal with the guile and
16:04
the guile is just an extra 2020%.
16:07
But what I want to ask is how this is going to affect metas
16:13
Because if we have people who are now pushing at 20s and don't
16:17
deal with the bargain at all, remember that these that this
16:20
bargain is actually returned to seasonal affixes.
16:23
Guys, this is not something we're going to see all the way
16:26
through the War within in the next season.
16:29
We are likely to see something change.
16:32
I think we will see the Zalotat's guile stay because
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Blizzard was very careful not to use the term seasonal affix.
16:42
They said we're bringing back thematic affixes and since the
16:46
war with him, we'll have Zalotat the whole time.
16:48
I believe we'll have Zalotat's guile at 12, assuming it goes
16:53
well, which everybody expects that it will.
16:55
I think we'll keep Zalotat's guile at 12, but change up the
16:59
bargain in 2:00 to 11:00. So I think it'll still be a
17:02
Zalatath themed bargain, but instead of ascended and
17:06
frenzied, it'll be two other things.
17:09
So I think that's why they didn't say.
17:11
I do think you're right. I agree.
17:12
We're not going to see this the exact same situation, the exact
17:15
same two all through every season.
17:18
But I think we keep Zalatath and Zalatath style.
17:20
I think Zalatath becomes that, and I think she's a perfect
17:23
conduit for it, but I think she becomes that conduit for
17:26
delivering these affixes. Sure.
17:29
Yeah. Anyway, sorry I didn't interrupt
17:30
you. No, no, I, I think that's,
17:32
that's fine. I just think that like if they
17:35
change the bargain, which is what I was mostly concentrating
17:39
on that that is going going to require different things each
17:45
season. We'll see how they they do it.
17:47
I don't want to like speculate too like randomly on what what
17:50
there is, but even with this bargain, there are going to be
17:53
people who are like, OK, I'm going to spec a certain way
17:57
because I need to make sure that I'm bringing enough stops for
18:00
for this to to happen, especially in pug groups where
18:03
you don't know if somebody else is bringing bringing those
18:05
stops. And then when we go to the
18:10
people who are kind of setting the trends, setting that that
18:14
meta, they are going to be doing something a bit different where
18:19
their stops are more going to be how can I interrupt the pack
18:22
themselves rather than these Zaltath bargains or how can I
18:27
like mitigate the frenzy damage when that becomes an actual
18:30
serious, serious thing at these higher levels.
18:33
So are we going to see an absolute splinter in the meta or
18:38
do you think that the people at the lower end are going to have
18:42
to start realizing, wait a second, this meta isn't the same
18:45
game that I'm playing at the lower end?
18:48
So are we gonna have the meta being set now by I'm?
18:50
Ready to answer? You might have already
18:52
considered the mid range I'm. So ready to answer.
18:55
I'm so ready to answer at at because at 12 it completely
18:58
becomes a completely different game mode where they don't have
19:01
to deal with Frenzied or Ascendant at all.
19:02
It doesn't exist. The from from and the the the
19:06
jump from 11:00 to 12:00 is significant.
19:08
It's the same as if you went from an 11 to a 13 or 14 this
19:12
season because of Zala Tatsaguile.
19:15
So it's a big jump. So this that does two things.
19:17
One, it really tells those people who are like borderline,
19:21
they run the twelves now, elevens 12, thirteens now and
19:24
just sort of squeak by. They're basically being told get
19:28
better or live in this world down here.
19:32
And that's going to be a delineation that I think a lot
19:34
of people are not going to be happy with.
19:35
And I think they'll be the ones who are most vocal about, you
19:39
know, saying, oh, this change is bad because it doesn't let them
19:42
live in that world where they think they're better than people
19:44
that run weekly 10s. They're not.
19:46
But what it will do is the the top end, because the the quote
19:51
UN quote meta that exists now is driven by the top end and it's
19:56
done as you said, they'll be building those top ends for
19:58
survival and for damage and less to deal with affixes because
20:01
there are none for them to worry about other than just the damage
20:04
in the dungeons. There's no it.
20:07
It finally like solidifies something that people have been
20:11
saying for years is that there's no reason for you running your
20:15
weekly 10 or even worse, A + 5 to try to match what they're
20:19
doing in a 15 or a 16 because it's a completely different game
20:23
mode, what they need. Is not what you need and what
20:26
you do need. They're not running 'cause they
20:28
don't need it. So it it, it fractures the high
20:35
key level meta from the majority of the people who play the game,
20:40
which I think I, I hope, which I hope will be healthy for the
20:46
game. I hope that it will still break
20:48
that mentality of groups now that are like, oh I need to have
20:51
class XY and Z because that's what now and echo runs when they
20:56
do this because you're playing a completely different game in
20:59
that 2 to 11 range. What could potentially happen?
21:02
And I I don't think this will because metas are usually set by
21:06
the sweats. When the sweats set in, and this
21:09
is the mathematically best option, that's usually what
21:12
determines a meta. Most of the people running in
21:14
that 2 to 11 range aren't the sweats, you know what I mean?
21:17
They're just people running keys.
21:20
So I don't think this will happen, but it could potentially
21:22
create a scenario where a sub well, so an 11 meta develops
21:28
that says this is the best comp to run for this week.
21:32
Sort of like how you have time running sets.
21:35
People build a time running set. It's like this doesn't matter in
21:38
in real game, but if you want to be a sweaty time runner and like
21:41
blast time running dungeons in eight seconds, this is the set
21:44
you build that could happen, but that's not going to have that
21:48
will be such a small subsect of people that do that.
21:50
It's not going to overly impact the majority of a whole.
21:53
It's going to take. This will force a mentality
21:55
shift in mythic plus, but I I hope, I truly hope will be
22:01
beneficial for everybody in that lower bracket to say lower
22:07
bracket. It is a lower bracket.
22:08
I don't mean that in any derogatory term, but in that
22:10
lower bracket, that 2:00 to 11:00 bracket that will make it,
22:13
it might not make it easier to get into groups because people
22:15
are still going to go off your eye level and your rater IO
22:17
score. That's going to happen.
22:19
But it should snap that mentality of I need to have Hank
22:24
X healer B, You know, I, I think truly does because it's a, it's
22:28
a completely different game. And for US playing in that
22:32
level, in that 211 level you mentioned, this brought Warrior
22:37
as a perfect example on the ascendant weeks for the orbs,
22:40
I'm going to run colossus because I get a 22nd shockwave
22:44
every 20 seconds. I can shockwave and stun all the
22:46
orbs and intimidating show and get the rest of them.
22:49
And in the frenzy weeks, well, I'm going to run mountain thing
22:52
because I don't need that shorter shockwave.
22:54
So I'm going to take the bigger AOE to do more damage to the
22:56
mobs that are attacking me when I get an attack bonus.
22:59
It's so it's already like helping.
23:02
It's, it's, it's creating that separate build change a little
23:05
bit on its own just by the way these are designed.
23:08
It's a brilliant design. The only thing that can ruin
23:11
this is the community. And I maybe I again, I'm not
23:17
really, I don't really run Mythic Plus, so I don't, I'm
23:20
talking a little bit out of my butt here.
23:22
I am hopeful that by separating out the top players, that'll
23:29
also potentially give us a little bit more of an ability to
23:33
tell. OK, I'm gonna ramble a little
23:35
bit. I feel like I see this a lot in
23:37
rating where, you know, when you go into an LFR and there's
23:41
somebody who like, so obviously wants to let everyone know how
23:47
much better they are than them. And like, who's clearly like,
23:50
feeling really good about the fact that, like, they can bully
23:53
other people. And like, if you actually know
23:55
how to raid, you're sitting there like, buddy, if you were
23:59
good, you would not need to like get your rocks off by being a
24:02
jerk in LFR. Like if you were actually good,
24:04
you'd be running with your reign team right now.
24:06
So let's calm down. Let's let the babies learn.
24:08
It's fine. They're like, and I think would
24:12
you the the when the community starts yelling about like, this
24:16
is what needs to happen. And if you're doing this, you're
24:18
bad and this is terrible and this is good and this is the
24:20
only way to play and everything else is horrible.
24:23
When we're all kind of in one little group, it's a little
24:26
harder to shut that down because like, yeah, right.
24:30
The people who are like pushing whatever the world's first is in
24:34
mythics, like who and who are like timing at the highest
24:37
levels. They probably do have very
24:40
strict rules of like, this is good, this is bad.
24:42
You run exactly like this. You have this meta, you have
24:44
this comp. And that's just not true if
24:46
you're not pushing at that level.
24:48
But like, I can't say with my chest when somebody's on Twitter
24:51
or like the only way to play this game is to do this, that
24:54
like that person isn't actually speaking to a community where
24:56
that's important, right? But once we kind of separate
24:59
that out, it's much easier to tell the people who are at
25:02
Elevens and below like, hey, bestie, shut up.
25:07
Like you're not actually like, and I say this is somebody who
25:10
doesn't do Mythic and I know I'm not very good, but like you're
25:14
not that good 'cause you're doing an 11.
25:16
So let's, let's, let's take this one down a little notch.
25:20
Let's calm down a bit and let's maybe work on ourselves.
25:23
You know what I'm saying? Lex, you're the best.
25:26
You're my new best friend. Thank you for your support.
25:30
Lex is my spirit animal. I think the other part to that,
25:36
Lex is kind of this like, like going with a little bit what
25:40
Sean said. There's gonna be these greater
25:42
chasms, these greater break points in this system.
25:45
You are looking at a point where let's go with like the 10 as as
25:51
a break where not only you now had fortified, but the boss also
25:56
has tyrannical. The difference between an A nine
26:00
and then ten that tyrannical goes in or 10.
26:04
You're now dealing with a fortified on top.
26:06
That's a, that's a bigger chasm than we have seen in previous
26:10
more recent seasons, right? Again, same thing with with the
26:15
bargain being shut down, Guile bringing in an extra 2020%.
26:19
And even at that very starting point where you're like, oh, I'm
26:22
doing a two, I'm doing a three. Well, here comes the four and
26:25
now your first tyrannical or fortified's coming in.
26:27
There's these different break points and the different chasms
26:32
where more people are going to fall short of making that jump
26:35
into the next step. And if they put the rewards in
26:40
correctly, I think that's going to be very strong where it's
26:44
like, OK, whereas before it didn't take me that much more
26:47
effort to start picking up aspect crests or that much
26:50
effort to start getting on to the heroic or the mythic track.
26:53
And if that separation is a lot more clear, maybe Mythic stops
26:58
being looked at so readily as, oh, I can get mythic gear out of
27:03
this even though I'd never raid mythic level, or heroic gear,
27:06
even though I'd never raid heroic level.
27:08
And I think that is as much as people might be like, oh,
27:11
they're really pushing me down. Maybe they're trying to make it
27:15
like maybe the difficulty gap has a beneficial purpose or
27:23
consequence, even if it's not intended to be, it'd be that
27:26
way. So I, I do want to see where the
27:28
rewards kick in with this and how the community reacts to
27:32
this. I know for I know for sure,
27:35
Sean, that we have seen a lot of people on the forums, a lot of
27:39
people in the comments, a lot of people in Discord already upset
27:43
with like, oh, this feels like it's not like it.
27:46
They generally people are saying this is better than what we saw
27:49
last week, but there's already people who are saying this feels
27:52
again, like it's catering to people, not myself, because now
27:56
I can't get some of that stuff that might have come easier in
28:00
what we're dealing with right now in season four or especially
28:03
back in season three. So do you think this is gonna
28:07
lower Mythic Plus participation or do you think that there's
28:12
enough incentive there that people are gonna be like, yeah,
28:15
I really want to try and get into this and think?
28:20
I think this it has the potential to lower it, but I
28:24
honestly think I think mythic plus participation will increase
28:27
from this. Do we know aspect crests start
28:30
dropping at a nine? You can get aspect crests before
28:34
you hit radical and fortified on at the same time.
28:37
We don't know yet. Like you mentioned where the
28:38
gear drops are. That's going to be important if
28:42
you can get Max vault track Max if you can get myth track items
28:47
in your vault without doing a + 10.
28:50
I think it's still in the realm of people saying, oh, it's easy
28:55
to get myth track gear from mythic.
28:56
Plus moving tyrannical four to five to four actually makes that
29:02
easier because those come in at a two now.
29:05
So you get two key levels without them to learn the
29:07
dungeons before you have to engage with them.
29:09
But I think that's a good change.
29:10
But I do IA 100% agree with your, your, your statement of
29:14
where they drop those, those gear reward levels will have a
29:19
huge impact on how successful people are because those chasms,
29:23
there are going to be a lot of people right now who think
29:25
they're really good at mythic plus who are going to come into
29:28
this and find out maybe I'm not and then blame the system
29:34
instead of looking internally and saying, OK, where can I
29:37
improve? But that being said, in a six
29:41
month season now, if your portals are at 10 and you can
29:46
get them now in, you know, four weeks, 4 weeks and I've got all
29:51
my portals, great. Well you'll still get there,
29:55
it'll just take you maybe 8 weeks, you know what I mean?
29:58
It just extends out how long you have to play to get them, which
30:01
artificially means there's more and plus involvement because
30:05
you're playing longer because it's a little bit harder to do
30:09
it. There's a sort of a meme people
30:11
call mythic plus a a mini game. I think this removes that a
30:14
little bit. It's definitely a reason for the
30:17
top end. I think this, this gives people
30:19
are like, there's been like people who are like, oh, they're
30:22
saying they don't want affix in the top end, but they definitely
30:24
do. Like these are the people who've
30:25
been who've been all of Legion and all of BFA and all of shadow
30:28
lands running the same dungeons every week.
30:31
They don't care. There's no affixes.
30:32
You know what I mean? That's not going to bother them.
30:34
They wanted that can. I ask you to define your top end
30:39
a little bit more because like sometimes when I'm thinking top
30:42
end, I'm thinking title, chasers and.
30:45
The people who are getting. Yeah.
30:47
And that's how much percentage get the title and therefore how
30:50
much percentage. 00 point 1%. Yeah.
30:53
And so how much percentage of those player of players
30:56
contending for titles make up the Mythic plus pool in in
30:59
general? Because I think if you're not in
31:01
the top like less than 1%, you're not actually contending
31:05
for title. Right.
31:07
No, I agree. But you're still dictating a
31:10
meta. You can with the, the, the, the
31:15
title teams determine the meta and it follows down from there.
31:21
So think I, I think of it like sports team.
31:25
So team A wins the Super Bowl with this type of quarterback,
31:29
this type of running back, this type of defense.
31:32
The teams the next year mimic that they go get the same
31:36
quarterback, the same. So the the title teams determine
31:39
mathematically, you know, or and and like comp wise, what works
31:44
the best together as a comp to let us time the highest keys
31:48
possible, like what will mathematically let us get there?
31:51
And then it trickles down from there because the people that
31:54
are just below them want to catch them or want to try to get
31:57
title. So they they copy it.
31:58
It's like in rating too, right, Echo or method and liquid kill
32:03
the boss, the final boss with this comp.
32:05
Well, the guilds in, you know, 10 in 5 to 20 run that same comp
32:09
to try and kill and then guilds and because they're they see a
32:12
team who has success with it, so they copy it.
32:14
So those teams, people that are in like anybody who's from like
32:19
the top 2% down, they're not setting metas, they're copying
32:23
metas. And so when I say top players, I
32:27
mean title players, I mean that 0.1%.
32:29
Everybody else is chasing them and copying them.
32:33
So the reason I want to say that and actually put those numbers
32:37
forward is because going back again to what you were, you were
32:41
saying, right? It's a very small percentage
32:45
that we're dictating a meta to 98% of of people playing Mythic
32:52
plus. And that's not going to be
32:54
relevant to I what would you even consider people that go
32:59
beyond the beyond the rewards track even I think that that
33:04
that amount of people that go beyond the rewards like beyond I
33:08
want to get portals, right? I would say that that is far
33:12
below 40% of the entire population of Mythic Plus.
33:17
Yeah, I I would be shocked if it was even 40%.
33:19
I think it's probably closer to like 15 percent, 20%.
33:23
There's a lot of people who get portals and stop.
33:26
You know, I'm I myself include like I I get I I I hit this last
33:31
season it was 10s the season it was 10s or whatever it was or
33:34
20s last season. I hit that in the second or
33:36
third week and then I stop. I firm that, you know, I have
33:39
700 plus 10s timed, you know, and I have friends who are like,
33:43
hey, you want to do this eleven? No, I'm good, but we can easily
33:47
do this 11. We all yeah, I know, but I could
33:49
just do and actually now I do eights.
33:51
I don't even do 10s. I do eights, this still gives me
33:53
this track in the ball like and and so there's there is I, I
34:00
yeah, I think and that's why I really think that this this
34:04
divide at level 12 and saying, hey, affixes don't exist for you
34:08
and hey, all of you, they do exist.
34:10
I really think it's healthy because it even now before this
34:15
change, if you're not in title range or just outside of title
34:20
range, if you're not in the top 2%, you don't need to run that
34:23
comp. You can still time keys, you can
34:25
still run high keys. There are tanks now and there
34:28
are groups now that aren't in that meta comp that are getting
34:32
title. So you don't need to even run it
34:34
to get title. You know, like think of war is
34:37
gonna get title. Honest warrior, I'm so sorry.
34:42
You don't need to like it's such, you only need it for the
34:46
absolute top, the absolute #1 ranked world keys.
34:52
And we just have this incapability.
34:55
We see somebody is successful doing a thing one way and we
35:00
tell ourselves my success has to be done the same way.
35:03
And in Warcraft and in life, your success is not measured and
35:08
not determined by how somebody else did it.
35:10
Your path to success is your path.
35:13
You can do it your own way. I love.
35:17
That I agree with a lot of that. I think that the the meta
35:21
becomes so prevalent because people see it and say, OK,
35:24
that's the proven way of it being done and not that they
35:28
have to do it themselves. If they were internalizing, it'd
35:30
be like, OK, I'm going to go switch to that Demon Hunter and
35:33
I'm going to play that. And people do.
35:35
People will switch to whatever the flavor of the month is.
35:38
That is a proven thing. I am more OK with that than what
35:42
I typically see on Mythic Plus, which is I don't care what class
35:46
I'm playing. I'll play like the worst tank
35:49
but everybody else has to play the meta.
35:51
I'm bringing the meta group around.
35:54
Me. Right.
35:56
But like it, I think that that mentality is far more prevalent
36:01
than the people who are willing to switch what they're doing in
36:04
order to make it meet the meta and that meet the meta.
36:08
And that is the the most toxic thing in mythic Plus.
36:13
I gotta ask you, Lex. Love it.
36:17
You're self self professed I person who barely touches mythic
36:22
plus in my mind you're somebody who just doesn't even concern
36:28
yourself with the meta. Do you know what the like quote
36:30
UN quote best best tank or healer is in season 4?
36:37
Like off the top of my head off. The top of your head, yeah.
36:39
No. Which is right.
36:42
And I think that there's a large portion of the player base that
36:45
is like that, even though they are getting affected by the meta
36:48
because of the group that we just identified.
36:51
Well, and I think I think that there's a little bit of a
36:57
trickle, trickle down stress. I guess like one thing that I, I
37:01
don't really know how. So I'm curious when people talk
37:05
about like, oh, meta chasers and everyone's pushing meta and you
37:08
have to do the meta or people like often when I hear that,
37:12
it's kind of like a story from a story.
37:14
Like somebody's like, Oh my God. Yeah.
37:16
Like I've been hearing on Twitter that if you don't play
37:18
these five classes, you'll never get invited.
37:21
So I don't even try to do Mythic plus B.
37:23
And like, and honestly, that that's one of the reasons that
37:25
I, I don't really engage with pugging is because I've heard so
37:29
many stories of like, it's so toxic.
37:32
Everyone's gonna get so mad at you if you do it wrong.
37:35
Nobody's gonna take you in if you're not in the meta.
37:37
But when I like analyze where I'm hearing that, it's usually
37:41
like, oh, like people who are hearing it from somebody else
37:44
who were hearing it from somebody who experienced
37:46
something. So I am a little curious if
37:49
everyone was really honest with themselves and everyone started
37:53
pugging mythic, whether some of that toxicity would turn out to
37:57
be a little bit of a story. And I, I genuinely don't know
38:02
whether or not that's true because I am so scared of
38:04
pugging because I've heard how toxic mythic pluses that.
38:07
Like it, it literally could be anything.
38:11
It could be that everyone is a meta tracer and you're going to
38:13
get DMS that like you are bad because you are playing this
38:17
class and didn't you know? That's terrible you dumb idiot.
38:21
But it's also possible that that's a little bit of a story
38:25
that World of Warcraft players tell each other.
38:28
Well, it's it's a it's a bit of that.
38:30
It's a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy is what I would
38:34
consider it most of all. People who are afraid and off
38:38
meta will opt not to, right? People who are in the meta will
38:45
be like, oh, sweet, it's easier for me to get get in.
38:48
But even that gets subdivided by the people who are like, I don't
38:50
even know these pulls. I don't want to come in in a
38:53
meta meta class and not know how what makes it makes me meta.
38:57
I think that there is a certain group of players who will be
39:02
looking at Dratnos guides for what for what to pull.
39:06
And we'll be looking at people's tier list of what what's good
39:10
this this season. And, and those people, even they
39:17
are a subdivision of people who will hear about it on Discord,
39:23
but not know exactly where the source is coming from.
39:25
There are sites where you can see the distribution of classes
39:29
in, in certain key levels and it's there.
39:32
So the information is out there, but the amount of people who
39:34
actually go directly there versus the amount of people who
39:37
just follow whether they're being what they've heard is
39:40
completely different. So it's very much a self
39:42
fulfilling thing where people will hear hear about something
39:46
and then they'll be like, OK, I don't want to get involved in
39:48
that. Which means that there's less
39:49
people who aren't involved in a meta active active in Mythic
39:54
plus. The other thing that I think is
39:57
going to be very interesting in War Within.
40:00
Is that world of war the the the Blizzard team is doing work to
40:04
make it so mythic plus is no longer the standard thing
40:07
everyone kind of has to do right?
40:09
By putting in thing by making heroics viable again, by adding
40:12
delves. Like it's not going to be the
40:14
highest level gear. And even things like give it
40:17
making it so that upgrading gear is the stone base.
40:22
I can't think of words right now, but like, instead of just
40:26
you have to go get the actual physical piece of gear and put
40:28
it on. What they've been kind of doing
40:31
is making it so the people who don't want to play Mythic Plus
40:34
don't have to. And I am really curious what
40:38
that's going to do to the community.
40:40
Because on the one hand, I could see it kind of distilling in
40:46
toxicity, right? The people who are really like,
40:49
you know, hyper play by the book.
40:52
We do the meta. If you don't read all the guides
40:55
and you don't follow all the Discord threads and everything,
40:57
you are wrong and you are bad and you are stupid.
40:59
And we do we we do Mythic plus to do them perfectly.
41:02
Like they might be water. Like right now, they're a little
41:05
bit more watered down because there's a lot more people who
41:08
are like, well, gotta get gear or my ratings going to yell at
41:10
me. So I guess I'll do mythic plus.
41:12
And those people might be kind of removed from the equation,
41:15
but I can also see it allowing the mythic plus community to
41:19
flourish and also take out people who are like low key
41:22
miserable in mythic plus and are mad and grumpy and like rushing
41:27
through because they don't want to be there.
41:28
And they can go do something that's actually fun for them.
41:31
And it allows mythic plus to be more about the joy of the game.
41:36
I genuinely don't. It could be a million other
41:37
things. Those are not the only two
41:39
options, but I I'm, I'm really curious to see as World of
41:42
Warcraft pulls Mythic Plus out of the space of thing everyone
41:47
has to do if they want to be viable in any form of content
41:50
and makes it into its own little style of play that only people
41:55
who want to engage have to engage with.
41:57
I'm interested in what that's going to do to all of this.
42:00
Yeah, I mean, there's there's a lot of things that will affect
42:03
it. The health of Mythic Plus isn't
42:06
in and of itself a bubble because with delves now being a
42:11
new source of gear, if a lot of the people who were feeling
42:15
forced to do do Mythic plus can find a suitable amount of gear
42:20
from delves to to satisfy them, then you could see some some
42:27
drop off to the to a certain degree.
42:31
There are obviously going to be people who are like, well, I'm
42:33
doing delves and Mythic plus, so they're still doing Mythic Plus.
42:36
There are also going to be anybody who is going above
42:39
heroic year because delves do not provide anything on a mythic
42:43
track and they are still going to be doing a mythic plus.
42:48
But also I think that a big part of it is going to be that with
42:55
the upgrade track being slowed down at has been in in season
42:59
four with these break points that are going to going to just
43:05
things right. With the raid itself having a
43:08
built in way of increasing your power from week to week without
43:13
getting upgrades. It will sort of dilute the in
43:18
the importance and the impact of mythic plus.
43:21
And hopefully that'll mean that the people who are are focused
43:24
on Mythic plus are doing it for the love of it and maybe that'll
43:28
make the community better, but I can't say for certain.
43:31
It's going to be a completely different game at the at the
43:34
people going above twelves than the people below twelves.
43:38
And I think a lot of this conversation is going to be is
43:40
going to be focused on the people who were in that 2 to 11
43:44
range in, in my opinion, that it's going to really affect the
43:47
people above 12. I think they're still going to
43:49
be in basically the same mindset.
43:51
What? What do you think, Sean I?
43:53
Think it's a good change. I I honestly do I think, and I
43:56
think going into the war within Blizzard, good put.
44:02
Tune for everyone. Tuning should cover everyone.
44:05
I think it's easier to tune because you have turn the clone
44:07
fortified on at the same time and you have much fewer affixes
44:10
to deal with and work around. Tune for everyone, but focus on
44:14
the two to 11 range and make sure that that group is having
44:18
fun. That plus 12 sweats are going to
44:21
do whatever they want to do. They're going to grind that no
44:23
matter what what state it's in, make sure it's well tuned and
44:26
balanced. They're going to be happy.
44:27
They're like the kid that you can just hand them, you know, a
44:31
wooden hammer and some pegs and he can just go pound on those in
44:34
the corner by himself all day. That's that's the people doing
44:38
12 plus and I love it and I'm going to be one of them in the
44:40
war within. I can't talk about it, but I
44:43
just joined an E sports org as an in an M plus team.
44:47
But I guess I just talked about it.
44:49
I can't talk about it in more detail, but the two to 11 range,
44:54
that's where that's where the experimentation is happening.
44:56
That's where like, hey, we're working on these two new
44:58
affixes. We're trying this out.
45:00
And those are the people that you should put most of your
45:03
attention on. Those are the ones who are just
45:05
getting into Mythic Plus, who are doing it because they enjoy
45:08
it, but they don't want to, you know, get all sweaty about it.
45:11
Focus on that range, make sure the affixes work for them.
45:13
Make sure those make sure those people are having fun.
45:15
And I think it'll be successful regardless of what happens.
45:19
And there will be growing pains and there will be people that
45:22
are unhappy and people that are ecstatic and everything in
45:24
between. I think the biggest take away is
45:29
Blizzard identifies that there are separate groups of people
45:33
engaging with this content for different reasons, in different
45:36
ways. They're willing to make changes
45:38
and it doesn't take them long to come up with some fucking
45:40
bangers. This was like 2 weeks.
45:43
They did this in two weeks. And Holocaust was shamans.
45:47
Holocaust was the shaman. We work.
45:50
We appreciate your sacrifice, Manny.
45:53
Yeah, sorry about that, Manny. Well, I'm glad that we had a
45:56
good conversation about this and shamans will be getting stuff.
45:59
We'll be talking about that shortly.
46:01
But we do have another piece of news before we get to that.
46:05
Sean. I'm going to pass this off to
46:07
Lex. Here.
46:08
Oh, Lex. OK, good.
46:09
I'm going. To pass this off to Lex.
46:12
You, you, you missed the first one, Sean, and now it's all me.
46:17
Yeah, I don't get any more news. So, Lex, tell us a little bit
46:22
about Wow's big return to China. Yeah, well, I was coming back to
46:27
China. So basically they, I, I'm
46:31
forgetting the details of why they split, but World of
46:35
Warcraft was not getting along with Nettie's and they were not
46:40
in China for a while. But World of Warcraft is coming
46:43
back to China on August 1st. There's cool incentives.
46:47
So people are getting 14 days of free game time, 500 bonus
46:51
tenders each month for 12 months.
46:53
They're getting extra items for 20 missed cosmetics in the
46:58
trading post NPCS. They're getting two free mounts
47:00
and they're getting a pet which hopefully are cute.
47:02
I'm looking out for you guys. They're getting accelerated.
47:06
Wait, is it sorry I should know this?
47:08
Is it like any two free mounts and a pet on the store or is
47:11
like is it 2 special pets Very specific.
47:14
Ones, yeah. Oh, will, Will.
47:17
Somebody will read Not me. And they're doing accelerated
47:22
leveling between level 60 and 70.
47:24
They're going to bring Plunderstorm to China.
47:28
They will not be bringing Mob Remix, tragically, but they will
47:31
get Thunderstorm. Woohoo, they can do that.
47:34
Considered insulting in China. I think no because they Lili,
47:41
Lili wasn't there's there's like a whole commercial done with
47:44
Lili. So it's unrespectfully.
47:47
Enough that it's not some appropriation.
47:49
Yeah, actually there was like some questioning, like why isn't
47:53
like, it's unfortunate they're not getting it.
47:55
Oh, I think it's it's hard to fit 90 days of that system into.
47:59
Yeah, the announcement trailer in pretty sure I saw this
48:04
correct. The announcement trailer in that
48:06
aired in China to say they're coming back was was Lily from OP
48:10
Remix announcing it. OK.
48:12
It's. Fun.
48:13
Nice. Yeah.
48:14
And then they don't get it. They.
48:16
Are getting. The Blizzard bear, they are
48:20
getting the Blizzard bear so they're re releasing the
48:22
Blizzard bear for them. Oh, really?
48:25
I might need to make a Chinese account.
48:27
It's. Moving in China?
48:31
What else have they announced? So Netease has put a bounty on
48:37
for any Chinese group that wins the race to world first in the
48:40
war within they get, I'm counting zeros right now,
48:43
1,000,000. Yen question.
48:46
Mark yes, that's how numbers work.
48:49
I can count to three. I can see two commas anyway.
48:53
And then if no Chinese group claims world first at originally
48:56
every tier, there's going to be additional ¥200,000 added until
49:02
a Chinese group claims the top spot, which is cool.
49:05
So we're going to get more competition, which I also think
49:08
is like, I, I much love to the NA teams, but I want them to
49:15
stop winning. I want some I I want to shake
49:18
things up like. EU like the last two.
49:20
Three times. Well, whatever, I still want NA
49:22
to stop winning. I want NA and EU to stop
49:24
winning. I want all we I I want a cool
49:27
fun name. We lost big dumb gaming Guild
49:30
and I want new names. I want new people in world
49:34
first. I want to stop hearing the same
49:35
names. I love you guys.
49:36
You're really talented and cool and you're doing cool things,
49:38
but we're stop winning. He died.
49:41
There's poor liquid trying to pick itself up out of the gutter
49:44
after getting 2nd place. Alexa's just kicking it.
49:46
Be like stop winning, stop winning.
49:52
This is this is cool. It's not the first time that net
49:55
ease has offered a bounty for a Blizzard game, either.
50:00
In 2014, China got beat zero to four by EU players in a
50:06
Hearthstone competition, and the Netease CEO then said at the
50:10
next competition, if a Chinese player wins the next one,
50:15
they'll give them a Ferrari F430, which is worth somewhere
50:19
in the range of three to ¥4 million.
50:21
That news brought to us direct from the number one source of
50:26
Blizzard news in China on Twitter at NASDA NASDACN.
50:34
He is. They are.
50:36
They are incredible. They have all kinds of insight.
50:38
They actually allowed us on our Race to World First coverage to
50:41
stream through there. I hope this doesn't get them
50:45
like Arrested, but they gave us access to their account so that
50:48
we could stream. There's like some streaming
50:50
service over there so we could stream 1080P versions of the
50:53
China Team Skyline. Yeah, Bounty is cool.
50:58
I don't think I would like to see an official prize pool
51:03
somewhere, some way for the Race to World First that covers
51:07
everything not from Blizzard. I don't want Blizzard to get
51:09
involved in the race because that destroys E Sports org's
51:13
ability to get their own sponsors and run their own
51:15
events. But I would like to.
51:17
I think it'll be cool if if there was some prize pool
51:20
somehow generated maybe by fans or something that came in or
51:23
another company, like, I don't know, something, but it's not.
51:28
I don't think it's going to make a difference.
51:30
I don't believe there's any team in China that's going to be able
51:34
to overcome Echo or Liquid or even Method.
51:38
That's a challenge. It is a challenge, yeah, yeah.
51:46
Would you pull it together kind of teams?
51:50
Skyline was the best. None of that was meant.
51:52
That was all lighthearted. We've meant all that in
51:53
lightheartedness. Skyline was the top team in
51:57
China in Amir Dussell and they took 1000 pulls on Tindral.
52:04
Yeah, and I think they fell out of the top five.
52:06
I thought that like not in a mirror, Drussell.
52:11
Actually, this might have been all the way back in the first
52:18
one, Sepulchre of the first ones, they had like a big
52:21
conglomerate team. And as soon as that, as soon as
52:25
that race was over, that team splintered.
52:27
And I don't think I've seen a strong like as strong a showing
52:32
from the Chinese region team since then.
52:36
This might reinvigorate them to make another stab at it.
52:42
And I don't want to. I don't want to say that the
52:46
Chinese, the Chinese teams that that ended when when Blizzard
52:54
had to close up shop because of the nettie's relationship.
52:58
I don't want to say that that's the same strength that they
53:00
might come back to if there's a if there's enough of a carrot
53:04
there, there might be a better push.
53:06
That said, I think that with a three day delay, it's not
53:09
realistic to see them quite there that thousand pulls might
53:15
be less of an issue if they could get to the boss quicker.
53:20
But at the same time, I think that these teams, and this is
53:24
true for all of the race to world first teams, they learn a
53:27
lot from each other. So the, the speed at which the
53:30
Chinese region catches up is because the path has been blazed
53:34
by NA and EU before before them. So I, I, I don't even, I would
53:40
love in some hypothetical world where they all get to go at it
53:45
the same time, what that would look like.
53:48
But it I don't think it's happening this this tier, even
53:52
with that incentive. Yeah, but I'm happy Warcraft is
53:56
back in China. The game is stronger with a
53:59
larger player base, and China is a huge part of that, so I'm glad
54:04
Microsoft and Netease were able to figure it out.
54:07
Yep, Yep. It's, it's funny when you get
54:09
rid of a particular CEO that Netease called 2 face when they
54:14
shut it down and took the time to like, go ahead and publicly
54:20
on video, destroy all of Blizzard's statues in their
54:24
office because they were that cheesed off.
54:26
Didn't they really call? Was it Bobby Kotick?
54:29
They called them two. Faced they they they used a a
54:33
local way of calling him, calling him two faced.
54:39
It was a bubble tea of a certain flavor that through local
54:42
customs means yeah, this person's being 2 faced and or
54:45
and like a like a Dick. But they they.
54:48
Were calling out Kotek. They were like handing these
54:51
drinks out. They were like there was like
54:54
responses being like, good God, we we never want to deal with
54:58
with these people again. And I think it's because Kotek
55:01
personally took involvement in it and blew up that deal.
55:05
That's strange, 'cause he, he was so well liked here in North
55:07
America. Yeah.
55:08
I was gonna say, but like, it's almost like when people yell at
55:14
their staff, that means that they're mean people who don't
55:19
get along well with other people.
55:21
But that can't be true because you're allowed to abuse your
55:23
staff, right? Like the you know, it's
55:25
different. Well, we call them peasant
55:28
slacks in North America. You're so right.
55:32
Yeah, not, not all the time in in Ontario we call them serfs.
55:36
But regardless, I think this is cool.
55:40
I just looked at the one of the mounts.
55:43
It is the BlizzCon bear with a special flag.
55:45
It's different than the BlizzCon bear that existed before.
55:49
Unfortunately, I would not be able to get it.
55:51
So we're we're gonna be sad about that one.
55:54
But just move to China, Manny. Before you know what, that may
55:59
be the next land of the free at this rate.
56:01
But let's talk about. That is spicy.
56:04
I'm going to take over. I'm jumping in.
56:06
It's my time. We got a new patron.
56:09
All right, folks, we got a new patron.
56:11
And as you know, here on For Azeroth, every time we get a new
56:14
patron, I will personally give you a little bit of lore about
56:19
that individual. And if you're ready, I'd like to
56:22
tell you about our new patron. Now, the mystical forests of
56:27
Fashion Veil Dale. The noble paladin moved with the
56:31
grace of a protector, his shining armor reflecting the
56:34
moonlight as he vanquished the lurking demons threatening the
56:36
night elf sanctuary. His radiant hammer and
56:40
unwavering faith left no foe standing, earning the admiration
56:44
of the elven Sentinels. As dawn broke, the grateful
56:47
whispers of the four spirits hailed Dale as the holy guardian
56:51
of their ancient woods and as a true hero, or Azeroth.
56:57
Dale, Thanks for your subscription to the Patreon.
56:59
As always for Azeroth, we'll remain free to everyone,
57:03
however, one of your special thanks to our patrons such as
57:05
Danny, Klingon and everyone else.
57:08
If you enjoy the content we produce, consider pledging to us
57:11
at patreon.com/faz and hear your lore.
57:15
Fun fact, if you could somehow find a way to tell us your
57:19
faction and class will make these Lord stories a lot more
57:23
accurate and easier. But that's up to you.
57:24
It's up to. You.
57:26
Yeah, don't. Don't make me go creeping on
57:28
your socials again, guys, unless you like that.
57:30
No, you know what? Just don't.
57:32
Just don't. Yeah, All right, Manny, this is
57:36
Lex Had her turn. I had my turn, and I blew it.
57:39
But we're gonna turn things over to you because this is the
57:41
moment you and every other wet boy has been waiting for.
57:46
We've got drama updates. Is.
57:49
That not what you guys call each other you.
57:51
Who were not in the pre show. We were looking for a picture to
57:55
represent shamans for the tweet. Go go follow us over at FAZ
57:59
podcast over on Twitter. And you know, instead of going
58:03
with something noble like trawl or doom hammer, Lex suggested we
58:08
just get something wet. So now shamans are just wet
58:11
boys. Noble.
58:14
Manny. Yeah.
58:17
It is literally OK. If you didn't have doom hammer,
58:20
you would still like you don't have doom hammer right now and
58:22
you will not have doom hammer in the next like 24 hours and
58:25
you're still alive. And yet if you didn't have water
58:28
for the next 24 hours, you'd die.
58:30
I think. I think you need to drink in 20,
58:32
right? It's like, how many hours can
58:35
you live without water? Less than 24 I think.
58:38
I could be wrong. But anyway, it's important.
58:40
It's more important than Doom Hammer or Thrall.
58:43
You don't dehydrate without after a single day wait.
58:47
Are. You serious?
58:48
It takes you multiple days to go to die from dehydration?
58:52
No, I'm good. Double check.
58:54
Double check anyways. Are you we three days?
59:00
It is 3 days. It is 3 days.
59:02
Good for me for remembering that.
59:04
Good for me. I'm a survival expert.
59:06
No I'm not. I'm dead in the.
59:07
Water, he was in a few hours. Air.
59:10
No, that isn't. I'm pretty sure error you you
59:13
would last less than 24 hours but.
59:16
We. We go on because some have.
59:18
Air. Water.
59:21
No, no, we're not. We're not going on.
59:24
We're not going at all. Right?
59:29
We go. Because shamans wheels but only
59:38
water, not only air but earth and lightning and all the
59:42
nature. Unfortunately Blizzard has LED
59:45
us to wilt for a long time, but kyvax did appear on the the
59:51
forms to let us know that we would be getting a package of
59:55
updates in the next build. Now guys, if you want to know
1:00:01
how bad things were for shamans, they couldn't wait for this bill
1:00:05
to get get done. In order to address some of the
1:00:08
glaring disparity for one of the DPS classes.
1:00:12
So elemental shamans got a flat 30% damage amp to get them
1:00:19
anywhere relatively close to everybody else.
1:00:22
That's how poorly elemental shamans were doing.
1:00:25
Enhancement shamans. As long as you're Storm, you're
1:00:27
not doing so bad. Totamic is a different thing,
1:00:32
but we'll go. I digress, Kivex said.
1:00:36
Hello, wielders of the elements. Over the first few weeks of
1:00:40
testing, we gathered a lot of feedback from you.
1:00:42
Subsequently, we aligned that feedback with our design goals
1:00:46
and got to work. We've been recently working
1:00:50
through a package of updates for shamans and we can now confirm
1:00:54
that we'll have the majority of the the changes implemented and
1:00:58
ready for testing in the next beta build next week.
1:01:01
Some beta tuning hot fixes for classes in the next couple of
1:01:05
days, but please know that this tuning is not a part of the
1:01:10
package coming next week. Thank you for your testing and
1:01:14
feedback guys. This needed to happen for about
1:01:19
a month including this week the total amount of hot fixes to
1:01:26
shamans. And I will say this, I'm going
1:01:29
to say this without exception has been one damage amp fix
1:01:35
elemental, one PvP tuning revision, one change to A to a
1:01:46
single spell to make it function slightly different and a tool
1:01:53
tip correction. It has been a pretty dry to go
1:01:58
back to Lexus thing pretty dry for shamans recently.
1:02:03
That's like a spritzing of. Updates next week will be a
1:02:06
deluge. Wow, this is this was this was
1:02:10
this. Was a poor showing and
1:02:13
unfortunately when we went into the beta they had said that we
1:02:16
were not going to see any major reworks, that it was going to be
1:02:20
fixed, focused more around tuning and small iterations than
1:02:25
anything else. And most of the shaman community
1:02:29
agrees that major things need to be done.
1:02:34
When I said that we hadn't got got much of those changes for
1:02:39
the last four weeks. I do want to go a little bit
1:02:42
further two weeks back because two weeks prior was the first
1:02:49
iteration of the hero talents for Totemic and not all of those
1:02:55
were implemented. In fact, as of today, not all of
1:03:00
them are implemented still. So shamans have been in a what I
1:03:06
can rightfully call without hyper hyperbole, a pretty broken
1:03:10
state with no, with no attention or feedback.
1:03:15
When you look at the official forms, the shaman feedback is
1:03:21
over 900, probably past 1000 by the time people are listening to
1:03:26
this episode. And that is different than, you
1:03:32
know, classes where feedback has been happening and they're
1:03:34
roughly around 300. So there's been a lot of
1:03:39
feedback. There hasn't been a lot of
1:03:42
response from Blizzard on that. And I'm really glad to see this.
1:03:45
The problem is that the terms that they're using, guys, they
1:03:49
say package of updates, they say most of them will be coming in
1:03:55
the next build, not all. And we are running close to
1:04:01
launch. That is concerning because they
1:04:06
need feed, they need to get data, they need to get feedback
1:04:09
on what they're presenting and we've got through most of the
1:04:12
ray testing. Where are they going to get the,
1:04:15
the feedback from this? People are now going to be
1:04:19
playing less because the ray testing is a big thing to push
1:04:24
to push stuff. The brawl with the Blues that we
1:04:26
had previously, that was a big way to get to get feedback.
1:04:31
So they're going to have to do another round of testing to kind
1:04:34
of push that. And I, I'm just worried that we
1:04:38
might end up in a state where it was in BFA where they said, I'm
1:04:41
really sorry shamans, we're going to have to get you another
1:04:45
round of, of adjustments in 10.10.
1:04:51
Sorry, not ten point one 8.1. And that actually didn't show up
1:04:56
until shadow land season one. We went an entire expansion just
1:04:59
broken. Anyways, non shamans, what do
1:05:03
you think? I thought people wanted broken.
1:05:05
Shamans I want a broken playable rings.
1:05:09
Are you anti? Broken Manny.
1:05:12
Wow. Manny Wow, how dare.
1:05:14
You. Oh, I only like the.
1:05:16
Pure drain eye woo. Hoo I don't.
1:05:19
Even like, I think the press. People shouldn't be part of the
1:05:22
group. I think that sums.
1:05:24
Up how we feel about the Shamari work yeah OK a lot a lot of.
1:05:28
Great input from my my Co Co host.
1:05:36
I do. I do think that the plus side
1:05:37
though, many. Go ahead.
1:05:39
Oh, I was gonna. Say on the plus side, given the.
1:05:41
Track record of this podcast. What's gonna happen is when,
1:05:45
like the day we release this, they're gonna release a package
1:05:48
of of shaman updates. It's gonna be everything you
1:05:49
wanted and you're gonna be really embarrassed that you just
1:05:52
like doomered on the podcast before they gave you everything
1:05:54
and it was perfect and incredible.
1:05:56
Not that I have ever experienced that because all of my opinions
1:05:59
are flawless in one take, but I bet that's what's gonna happen
1:06:02
to you. You know what?
1:06:04
I will be happy to. Be.
1:06:05
Wrong on this one. Let's pretend that they rework.
1:06:10
Is bug free and it plays well and there's no complaint OK
1:06:14
we're going to we're going to we're putting ourselves in this
1:06:17
world where that is the reality we're going to manifest that
1:06:20
we're going to manifest that and I want to know in that world
1:06:26
where it's a playable reality every.
1:06:29
You know, shamans are for the most part positive about the
1:06:31
changes, and they're a competitive class to play in War
1:06:34
Within. What are your two wish list
1:06:36
items? What two things would you be
1:06:38
like? Would would, would would you
1:06:40
make this rework a win? You keep using the word rework
1:06:46
and they were very careful. To avoid rework, which makes me
1:06:48
feel it's gonna be a lot more limited than that.
1:06:51
You're well packed. In this, what do you?
1:06:54
Need in your package. To be happy about your package I
1:06:59
need totamic. To get a lot more revisions
1:07:03
towards spenders. Totamic is in a very weird spot
1:07:07
where it's a lot of passive damage, a lot of splinter damage
1:07:10
and a lot of stuff that works towards builders.
1:07:13
Just imagine that they took your like filler spell and put more
1:07:19
and more energy behind that. That would mean that your big
1:07:23
powerful spenders, the big the big payoff moments are worth
1:07:27
less and less of your overall damage.
1:07:30
That too that be makes it more joy from the edging up to that.
1:07:33
Point and then the explosion isn't as good.
1:07:37
You're, you're just playing on Portland, Sir, I.
1:07:40
Can understand that. What are you talking?
1:07:41
About no, I get that. That makes sense to me.
1:07:44
Yeah, OK. No, that's.
1:07:48
What's in the package? What's next?
1:07:51
Yeah, you want more? So.
1:07:54
We want. We want more.
1:07:55
Payoff for for the the play again, if you put the stuff into
1:08:01
builders, if you put this into passive, it means less skill
1:08:03
expression as well, right? Whether I do well or or poorly
1:08:07
or play well or or poorly, it means less when it's just like,
1:08:11
did I roll the the dice and get a bunch of serotonins or did it
1:08:14
not happen? The other the other part to it
1:08:19
would be that they need to adjust the RNG down as well.
1:08:26
There are there are just two things that are majorly based on
1:08:32
proc from your storm strike majorly based on proc from your
1:08:36
your lavalash. It's it is again something where
1:08:41
it's taking taking the power out of out of player's hands and put
1:08:45
it into the hands of luck. The last thing is that shamans,
1:08:50
and this is the one that I think is going to be least likely to
1:08:53
happen because it requires them adjusting things on the class
1:08:59
tree, which has been garbage since its since its iteration
1:09:03
and adjusting things on the spec tree because shaman talent
1:09:07
points are incredibly strained. And with totemic especially,
1:09:13
there's just no way to like actually build into that, that
1:09:19
talent tree and support it and then have anything left for for
1:09:24
for for choice nodes. So that that's a that's a big
1:09:31
thing. Hopefully it will be more than
1:09:37
expected, but in order for it to be more than expected, I think
1:09:40
they would have readily used the term rework.
1:09:43
So I'm at best cautiously, cautiously optimistic, but more
1:09:51
likely I'm skeptical about this and and probably going to be
1:09:57
pigeonholed into storm because Totamic is just too far gone at
1:10:01
this point. Well, Manny.
1:10:04
You're in luck, because behind door #2 we have Blizzard giving
1:10:08
us everything we want after we spend 10 minutes in an episode
1:10:11
of complaining. So you're going to get it right.
1:10:14
We just manifested it. Celebrate with us, Manny.
1:10:18
Give us a little celebration. This is this is the many do.
1:10:22
This now, on Tuesday, you might not be willing.
1:10:26
I don't think I'm willing to do it now, guys.
1:10:28
Skeptic, skeptic AF, right? I'm terrified that like many
1:10:37
times the pack and he was severely, severely
1:10:41
disappointing. I believe I, I believe.
1:10:45
I like to everything the war was it has been on.
1:10:48
He took a bit to like processing.
1:10:51
War, then, has been on such an upward trend.
1:10:53
Like an actual jokes aside, it's been on an upward trend for most
1:10:57
everybody. Sorry rogues, you'll be missed.
1:11:00
He believe I I believe that Tuesday will roll around and all
1:11:06
my shaman friends, which if I'm being honest, I have an
1:11:09
inordinate amount of friends who play Shan.
1:11:12
All of you are going. I'm sorry, Alex.
1:11:17
You're empty. Probably looks.
1:11:17
Nice though, thank you. Yeah, I'm sorry, I believe.
1:11:25
No, that's OK. I just want Manny to know that
1:11:27
I, I, I believe that things are going to go well for them.
1:11:32
OK. Well, with that said guys, it is
1:11:37
a long weekend, which which is why this is being recorded on a
1:11:39
special time. Sean is going out into the woods
1:11:44
somewhere. Lex, you're gonna be travelling
1:11:47
next week. And so you won't, you won't be
1:11:49
here, but we will wish you well on your escape plans and.
1:11:56
As for. Me, yeah, it's a holiday for me
1:11:59
as well, doing a little bit of staycation.
1:12:05
And you know, we've got all of the the big holidays, Canada
1:12:10
Day, Canada, Canada's Beard Day, all that stuff coming.
1:12:15
So we will see you again next week.
1:12:19
Until next time guys, may all your hits be quits.