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Episode 15: Parenting is a Cult (Parenting 1 of 4) · the Unvarnished Edit

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Welcome to season two, episode three of The Unvarnished Edit, where two friends talk about what it's actually like to live an adversity-filled life.
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Be prepared to laugh, possibly cry, and swear along with us.
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This is Angie, and today's episode is the first episode of our parenting arc, where we discuss our personal parenting philosophies and how that has changed over the years.
We hope you enjoy.
Hello Hello how are you I'm good.
How are you? I'm good I think because today is our first we're hiding right But because today is our first episode on parenting it's only apropos to discuss how You can either discuss how summer break is going or how you feel about summer break or both Yeah, right? Like we said in our pre-chat love-hate relationship, I will say that the school district that I'm in makes summer break pretty easy because we do like a modified year-round schedule.
So we only have weeks of Seven and a Half Weeks Seven and a half? Yeah.
So-- And I do 50/50 custody, and so that gives me like three weeks of summer break to manage.
And so it is a little bit easier in the sense that I just don't have to come up with as much to do, but it's also Not enough time to take the real break, right? And we get excited for summer, and we make plans, and then we get to summer and we don't have time to do all of this."
But I did discover something quite interesting last week when she was here.
I text with her when she's at her dad's, she is always so busy, right? So her dad, he lives in the neighborhood where the school is, and so all the kids live there.
And so kids pop by the house, or she goes over here and goes over there.
Oh how fun I live...
and I can say this out loud 'cause nobody is listening to this from her friend group.
I only live 15 minutes from there.
But she has led her friends to believe that I am That you live so far away Yes good girl comes here to take a break.
so-- And she-- And she'll say "Oh gosh, I can't.
I'm all the way at my mom's house," right? And so all of these kids think I live so far away, And then the one friend that she would really not care and want to spend time with is really allergic to cats and dogs, and so she can't even Oh to our house.
And so she treats her time here as like a reset.
And so now that we're at that age where friendships are more intense, has become easier because she really just wants to do some art, binge-watch a show, and go to a thrift store.
And it is easy, as long as I can get her to take the dishes out of her room Good luck with that What about Yeah that is how our that's how my bonus daughter is as well Her mom is loves doing things and so is super scheduled and she is actually not that way She likes to do things but she really likes to chill And so she has always treated our house as Oh I don't have to do anything and she doesn't the first week of break that she was here like the first our long stretch with them the five day we have them the fivetwo day schedule Yep That first one she legitimately only exited her room to go to the bathroom and to eat if I Yeah of and that was it My kind of I just always I would check on her and make sure every once in a while like Hey did you need something she n there was nothing She showered right before her mom came to pick her up on that last day cause I was like we really gotta at least have her shower before she goes cause they were already scheduled to go do a trip right she was and she literally just nothing like that girl And she's at that same age as yours Just a year older cause she's going into eighth grade Okay And I do I have a lovehate relationship because I number one I the amount of homework and things Now we don't have a lot of homework here in our district thank God do Because I think homework is the dumbest thing in the entire wide world In fact I think that homework is and I truly honestly believe this I think it is designed to get us accustomed to doing work after our work hours as adults We're so accustomed to just bringing it home with us and doing it and putting that before our actual like home life Yeah homelife balance to it And so I've always not been a fan of homework like Chandler though which I absolutely loved the modified yearround schedule we have that here Okay as well And so we only have seven and a half weeks of summer I don't get an I already have a hard time having any alone time and the only chance of alone time is when the kids are at school So my issue I love the fact that I don't have to get up for school actually that I don't have to take them to school in the morning cause I still get up at the same time and go to the gym like some moron But I realized that I that was actually the time that I like the gym the best and I've learned with our episode on parenting that in order for me to be a successful parent I have to go to the gym Yes have to absolutely have to go to the gym Otherwise I am just a raving lunatic for it So I like that I don't have to take them to school and I don't have to p you know pick them up but I really dislike not having alone time Yeah Yeah It's a la it becomes a very long summer And because we have big teenagers my grocery bill like dude can school please just still feed you And you don't eat at school anyway You don't even eat the lunch there and you don't eat breakfast before you go to school Yes I'm one of those parents but why do you eat it when you're here Yeah.
Why I know you can go hours I know.
So you can eat, I will literally give her a carton of blueberries to eat in the car on the way to school when school's in.
She Yeah But at home, we're making smoothies and acai bowls, and all of a sudden you want cereal, and I guess that's just 'cause she's not feeling the time pressure.
But you also They eat so much.
The purchasing of the food and making sure we have enough in the house that the kids are not hungry it's a lot I have to go grocery shopping this afternoon cause I've done mine and Todd's grocery shopping cause we can survive off nothing Yes And now I have to go do the kids summer grocery shopping because I know that there's food but there's ingredients Yeah.
There's a big difference between an ingredient household and a food household, and I am an ingredient household.
And you in the summer have to shift to I have to be a food so otherwise if you only, if you're an ingredient household, mom has to cook everything.
And we went to Costco the other day and I said, "We're gonna walk up and down these frozen food aisles as many times as we have to until something sparks joy in you, because I'm not cooking all summer."
So complicated I know which really you guys are getting a kind of a taste of our parenting philosophy right I don't know I m I think we said this at the beginning when we first very first started our intro piece to it is that Jaelene and I are parent friends So we met when our oldest children In kindergarten They were in the same kindergarten class so we met at dropoff I only at the time had three kids My third one was in She was like a year old I think at the time babies didn't have your third yet did you Yeah, or were you pregnant I had just had my third Yeah that so we have been and our oldest are now 27 years old So we have been friends for a very long time long time it has all surrounded a really around parenting initially it was all around parenting because you were my one friend that I could text Can I sell these kids Kinda I could talk about whatever was going on with my kiddos Yep Good bad really bad and there was never any judgment in it in fact I just came upon a like I had a memory of a Facebook post and it was a text between you and I said everybody no one teaches us how to be or talks about parenting adult kids and young adult kids Nobody talks about that kind of stuff And everybody needs a friend like this because it was a conversation that you and I had and it was honestly when Sam went missing Okay we yeah And found out yeah Anyway another story Another day another story whole thing And I texted you and I said Nobody talks about the shit of parenting I said It's like a cult where they only talk about the good things I remember this And you're like like a cult I'm tell me I'm wrong it is it's so true we don't wanna talk about the bad things of parenting because it may make us look bad and you and I talked about the bad things of parenting have regularly and it really helped me just to even get through parenting right Just to even have that I always tell people parenting is honestly, it's a trap because once you realize how hard it is, it's too late.
You already have the kids.
Yes deep, right? Yeah And maybe it's designed that way where the early years are easy, and so you just kinda...
we just forget about what that is like I just had this conversation with Jacen I said this is the same with childbirth and newborns is our brains are will remember just the good pieces Yeah.
because that gets us through it again.
You wouldn't do it again.
Yeah Yeah we would not survive as a species kind of thing Yeah so our question that we have laid out for today's thing is what is our parenting philosophy And honestly I've had to like I've had to like really do I actually have a parenting philosophy I just know that I have always wanted to be a parent Yeah some girls they dream of the marriage and they like plan their wedding and what they're gonna wear like as teenagers like that's a thing right I didn't know that was a thing I never wanted to get married but I always wanted to be a mom I just always wanted to be a mom And I honestly don't know what that was but my whole entire philosophy was I can't wait to see what they are like as adults And my And that I was never like parenting children I was always parenting prospective adults And so everything that I did it literally went through the lens of like someday they're going to be an adult And does this help them become an adult or does this hinder them becoming an adult And so that kind of has been like my underlying parental philosophy and honestly I got a lot of shit about it When they were es especially when they were young You shouldn't be letting them do this or You shouldn't be letting them do that or why are they allowed to talk to you that way and it was all because I was parenting them to be an adult at some point you're going to be an adult and you're gonna leave this house I wanna make sure that you're equipped to do that Yeah.
Yeah that's really interesting.
I think I would say I'm not sure, like you, I'm not sure that I have a parenting philosophy.
I know it's changed a lot over the years, like it's evolved.
Where I know for sure, though, that I've always been is I came from a very big family, and I always wanted a lot of kids, but I think that was a cultural thing.
It definitely it's not an internal thing.
That was a cultural thing.
And, I'm not embarrassed to say whatsoever that if I redid my life, I probably wouldn't have kids.
I'm a great Really Yeah, I'm a You are a really good mom yeah Okay My kids Yeah the center of my world.
I'm so grateful I have them.
They're amazing.
I learn so much from them.
I s- think I sacrifice too much of myself, And Yeah And this conversation doesn't matter because I have the kids, right? Yeah Yeah I yeah figure out how to sacrifice less of myself and have more of a balance where I feel like I can stake out more ground.
But I've never had, I've never explored that.
So that's neither here nor there 'cause I have these kids, and I friggin' love them.
They're amazing.
Yeah Yeah but I will say...
I think it's really important for people who feel like that to say it.
I'm allowed to say, "Wow, this is actually, I was kinda culture pressured into this, and I'm not sure if I would've made this decision again."
And that doesn't Yeah kids, right? Absolutely just think we need more honesty around parenting.
Yes Oh my God if we had more honesty around parenting It's not easy No.
It literally takes just about everything you have It's all made up.
We have no idea what we're doing.
Right And so-- But I will say I grew up in a family that if I do XYZ for one kid, I have to do it for the other.
And I totally understand that perspective especially when you have a bajillion kids, right? I have always parented the exact opposite of that.
I have always parented as you are a unique individual, whatever I think in my best discernment you need in this moment, I will give to you, and that will be very different than what I give to your sibling.
Absolutely the consequence of that is that I have four extremely diverse children, and it is almost impossible...
As a matter of fact, we were talking about, I would love to-- let's try and think of a family vacation.
My husband and I were, and I...
There is not a vacation, a dinner, an activity night that I can plan that a- all four of my kids would wanna come to.
I have to section out my parenting.
I will do these things with you two because this is for you, and I will do this thing with you.
so that's been, like, a really interesting thing to see the uniqueness of an individual you have always made sure that they are extremely unique in their raising.
Yeah no same right And Todd'll say to him Todd'll The classics classic line in our family is You sure breed em when it comes to the kids And that line is said probably once a day but you sure breed em because all of them are so incredibly different And I think another different perspective that Jaelene and I both have is we have adult kids and then we did it again And so we have honestly what some people say is the grandparent experience with one of our children because we have that dec year decade if not more of space in between our last one our third and our fourth Yep And that gave us a whole entire different perspective because it's so different It was like And the and my k and we've talked about it before but our adult kids get pissed at us because of the different way that we parent our fourth But the reason is not because we're more lenient is that we realized that a lot of the things that we thought mattered didn't in the end not it all those things did was stress them and stress us Yeah Yeah And so those things that we came to the second goround and we're like Wow that really actually didn't matter This matters way more being this way in this space matters much more in the long run Than that worry that I had before And honestly we're both older and more healed than we were way with our first set of kids And there was a lot of parenting that I did w when you talked about how your parenting has changed over the years A lot of it is that of me just being more emotionally healed my kiddos my older kiddos were I was in active addiction until they were six five and two so they had a whole entire different at least foundational experience there A lot of my parenting came from fear of people thinking I was a bad parent and how they would behave in certain spaces because I didn't want to be seen as that bad parent piece to it That that drove a lot of my parenting when my big kids were little but that same thing is I've always looked at them as like they all need different pieces but that was also part of that thing of like they're all gonna be adults and knowing that they're all what gets them to the point of adulthood is so different And what worked for one did not work for the other And then I my third nothing worked with her There wasn't a consequence in the world because that child had already decided before she did whatever she wasn't supposed to do that whatever consequence would come was worth her doing it Yeah Your third is my second in personality.
I Yeah, and we've talked about know those talked can never, ever be together.
And thank God that's not even a possibility, 'cause ew, they're ew.
they are so unique out of...
when you talk about having children that are so individual and unique, then we have these two kids that are like, oh my Yeah and I have a duplicate of that in my fourth.
Same I actually think that my fourth is...
This is funny because, my second kid, who is just physically and in so many ways a carbon copy of his father, right? Yeah Yeah the other two older kids, who all have the same dad, are really genetically mine, right? And so all of the things that he does, we've always been like, "Oh, that's just...
You're just like your dad.
You're just like your dad."
then I have this fourth child, has a different father, who in personality is identical to this other child, which has led all of us to now realize that it's me.
Hello That is, this is me.
And she is more on, like the on steroids version of it I am more embodied in the personality pieces Yeah me bonkers, and the reason Yes is 'cause they are Yes I was not allowed to express as a child.
Same And Absolutely same I'm like, "Do it all.
Enjoy it all."
Those things that I used to repress in this child because I repressed in myself, I'm gonna let you have the full experience.
And now I see this version of myself that shocks me sometimes, that has m- actually made parenting my fourth child the most difficult parenting experience I have had because as...
Oh my God, I'm getting emotional.
As I was raising my older kids, I was breaking cycles, but I didn't know it.
I was just doing what felt better to me.
And with her, I know exactly what I'm doing, I am raising her in the way that would've been best for me, And that is so enjoyable and painful to do at the same time Yeah So Yeah No absolutely and that was my third And she didn't really give me a choice because like I said she just she has always been her like from the moment she was born Yeah And she actually has a lot of chaos in between fam my family and her because she's just always been her but I see it in that same vein where they she reminds them of all of the things that they were never allowed to do and henceforth I was never allowed to do right And but she didn't give me an option She literally did not like she didn't give me an option Yeah.
far as stifling it as far as being i because she was just so strong in who she was from the moment she came on And like even her birth story Like that girl everything was on her own time so my first contraction was at 530 and she was born at 755 And I got to the hospital at 730 I walked into the hospital because of course I don't need anybody helping me with anything I was nine and a half centimeters dilated Angie Not kidding There was no medication There was nothing The emergency room doctor was like Just hold on Let me put my gloves on And I don't know what kind of look I had on my face but he looked at me and he said Just push I'll catch her And that has been life her whole entire life But yeah it taught me all of those pieces And then my second one really taught me how to listen and realize that what worked for me does not work for everybody Yeah And so she really helped me understand I have to do things in a different way for her that is the that works that works best for her And so my parenting the reason my parenting style has changed over time is because I've listened to my kids and what they needed and like what worked best for them kind of piece to it and so now we come to our fourth and honestly he's He is the poor thing is a combination of my oldest and my third So my one yes that is black and white and everything is everything has order to it to my chaos is preferred And in one little brain And so this kid and with the epigenetics of generalized anxiety disorder the kid had his first panic attack at two.
He has had the most help as far as selfregulation and I was I went through body work when I was pregnant with him I was in recovery like all of the And this kid's anxiety is still To the roof Really Yeah kind of thing made me realize we always have the conversation of is it nature or nurture And the older I get and the longer I've parented and now grandparent I really honestly at the beginning thought that nurture had everything to do with it and it does nature runs the show Yep nurture just show nurture just helps it either get better or get worse Yeah.
Nurture is the coping mechanisms we put around nature, right? Yes so when we th- And we can have this whole expansive, perspective on personality and nature and nurture when we view it from our children.
But then when it comes to me, I just want everything to be nurture because I want to be able to change it, Yeah But if Yeah just acknowledge that nature is in charge here, There's so much in that to unpack for an adult that's looking at themselves, right? Yeah that's, a really interesting perspective, for sure.
Yeah And, we can't ignore the fact that we don't parent these children alone.
We...
We did birth them with other people involved, and regardless of how we feel about that as individuals, we both have to co-parent, Yeah And we have another household that particularly, obviously, we're talking about with our younger children now.
But we went through it with our older children in very different ways.
And we have to co-parent, and we have to be good co-parents to the best of our ability, and that is very challenging to do when you have interpersonal history with a person that you are no longer in a relationship with Also with coparents that parent very differently And I d I believe we kind of go back to like my whole our whole spirituality episode that we just had I personally believe that like everything in our lives is there to um to help us in some way To make us a better person And so while the parenting is so and I mean like completely different from And that is like right now we just have my youngest and his dad and then my bonus kids and and their mom And believe it or not they are actually very similar in parenting and then Todd and I are very similar in parenting And so but we do have this kind of dichotomy of two households Jace I really don't have to do too much with when it comes to coparenting just because of how it's set up But the other kids is 5050 like like you all have so it has actually been very difficult for me to just step back and what all I can control is what happens in this house Yep And what happens in that house is none of my business And I will just whatever the If there is any fallout for what happens in that house when they are there we will just take care of it when they are back in our house and I've just had to completely step out It's the only way for us at least to move through that space I see a lot of co-parents that have really, chummy co-parent relationships, and that's fantastic for them.
If that's honest, if that's real, And that's really how you feel, that's fantastic that you can give that to your children.
I tried to do that first go round, and it was not authentic, and it actually opened me up to a lot more abuse.
Exposing myself to verbal and emotional abuse via text message in order to give my kids the feeling that they had two parents that were together on their side.
and that really led to a lot of chaos.
And so with my second one, I decided that I was just going to have a co-parent relationship.
I was not going to have a friend relationship.
And we certainly didn't leave on terms that allowed for a friend relationship.
And so my work has been in keeping those things separate and placing the value on my daughter deserves to have relationship with her father they build themselves.
Yes And that we're not responsible for that I tried so hard to create a relationship And I am not doing That wasn't my re not my responsibility do not...
I'm not in charge of their relationship.
I am in charge of not damaging it with my perspective and my words.
And I'm not perfect at it, right? But my job is to encourage her to be authentic and open and honest with her dad.
It's to help her advocate for herself, now that she's, she's older, to have discussions with him where appropriate, to make joint decisions where appropriate.
But other than that, we're not doing this together Coparenting is coparenting is difficult right Because we have to let go of the control that we desire Have when it comes to our children And we ha we have to Where I see the coparenting go wrong in so many places it's where one Demands to retain the control that they want to have when that child is with them at all times And it's hard.
Whenever I train on parenting one of the things I think that I learned is parenting is a consistent learning of how to let go So you think about it from the time that they are infants right you are literally learning to It's an active process of learning to let go And have them do theirselves like when they start walking you wanna help them and you wanna help them but at some point you gotta let go and let them take their steps by themselves right And then all of a sudden they're in school and then they're teenagers and everything is this consistent process of learning to let go And what coparenting kind of just gives you this crash course What would naturally develop over time if you allowed that but this crash course of I don't have control what goes on yeah.
over there the only endeavor where if you're really good at it, seperation happens.
Yes It's the only endeavor that's like that.
Yeah good parent my children become adults with their own lives, their own goals, their own thoughts, their own beliefs, and we're separate Yeah Right? Yeah and for me, it's been a process of really deeply recognizing that not only do I have to let go, I have to give them space to do mistakes, 'cause this is the safest place for you to make mistakes, is in these years that you have with us.
And And I think that's where has gotten out of hand, See a lot of kids not being allowed to make mistakes in their at-home years, So if she misses a homework assignment, and she calls me to bring it to her, I say no, If she doesn't get something done on time and needs an extension, I make her write the email, and that's because she's gonna have...
Like you said, I'm preparing her to be an adult.
And so you need the discomfort of these things not be fragile, right? And also to learn how to make yourself feel whole by fixing it.
And so you have to, in the walking analogy, you not only have to let go, you can't oop when they go to fall down, when they step too far away from the couch or...
and it's really a matter of trying to recognize how far you can let them go without causing irreparable harm How much space do you give, do I...
If I hear Yeah breaking a rule at 10 o'clock at night where our rule is no TV, no more night walking, no- which just means walking around the house, and right more devices in your room, and I hear her at 10:30 watching TV, am I gonna go in there and say, "Shut it off right now," or am I gonna wait till the morning and say, "Am I gonna hear your TV at 10:30 tonight again, or do I need to take it out of your room?" Let her feel that, ooh, I got caught, Yeah It's really tricky Yeah Yeah Yeah and honestly there's no book for it And every kid is different and so what did work for one that doesn't mean it's gonna work for your next one Yeah I m it really Yeah it really doesn't with my oldest I literally told him in high school I was like Dude you have to start pushing the envelope I'm like This is the time for you to make mistakes This is the time for you to do things Because once you turn 18 the law sees you totally differently and mistakes once you're 18 have way different accountability than the mistakes you make as a teenager He was just everything was just so black and white and rigid and y honestly afraid to get in trouble He was the kid who in first grade was bullied so bad and they had the teacher had the little stick consequences you had a green stick a yellow stick a red stick for your behavior We had tried every avenue possible when it came to bullying whatever intervention that they could have had And finally it was like Dude you need to hit this kid back it's the only thing that's gonna stop if he hits you you need to hit him And he's he goes But I just can't And I'm like Why can't you He's I'll get a red stick And I go Okay and so what happens when you get a red stick And he goes They call my parents I'm like That's me That's me that they're calling The one who is saying to do it And your teacher is backing this up you have our permission It's the only thing that's gonna stop this And he was just I just can't get in trouble right so polar opposite from my third who there was not a rule that she did not care to break because what's whatever is the kids that we have, I can't say this about your family, but in my family, the child, my second child, that took the most risks, broke the most rules, got in the most trouble, tried the most boundaries, it has had I'm not gonna say the easiest time as an adult, but has the most resilience, and is he's the kid that when I finally corner him as an adult and start asking questions about his life, I find all of these problems that he's been through and solved on his own, right? And I'm Yeah Yeah "Have you been living in chaos this whole time?" I just...
Yeah in another state.
I just went to go visit him, we were up there, and he came over to the Airbnb, and he was driving a totally different car that I didn't even know he had.
I said, "Where's your car?" And then he just tells me this whole chaotic story, and I'm like, "What?" But at the same time, isn't that what you're supposed to do? Yeah And So all of those things he learned in childhood by really pushing every boundary possible has made him so resilient.
And with my other children it's not that they're having a difficult time or that they're not resilient, it's just that their lives have played out differently for different reasons, 'cause they're totally different kids.
So it's Yeah they are all and honestly paths And that is it They are all on their own paths and we actually don't as parents have control over that We literally can just do the best we can do I It absolutely makes me so angry and I think it's probably because I come from the addiction world where we blame the parents for anything bad Yes do and we They must be bad parents if they're doing these X Y and Z Not necessarily Very good parents can have children whose their life path it has what we would perceive as bad choices in them and their c And vice versa you can have really bad parents Have really amazing fricking kids Yeah plain and simple And so I think when it comes down to parenting we really do feel that we have more control than we actually do And so we int we internalize that and we make up all of these rules that have to happen in order for this to be a good outcome and the truth is we don't have control over that We really don't.
We We really don't So yeah, parenting is, we have a lot to say about parenting.
We're very opinionated about parenting Probably because we've been doing it for almost three decades which oh if my kids heard if my son heard me say almost three decades Yeah.
It's hard for them to get older.
They're ha- my oldest is having a hard time too.
I think some of that is there's like a comparison thing, and I keep telling her, "There's exactly what it is no race.
Yes do I should be this I should be that I should be this I should be here I was like Ayayay kid be? Alive and happy Seriously Like none of us get out none of us get none of us get out of this thing alive You know what I mean Yeah Yeah just enjoy it Just enjoy We do So we do have a lot to say but are our topics also have topics Yeah So our next episode in this arc is gonna talk about parenting culture and parenting queer kids journey in its own Yeah, it parenting through crisis We're good cause we all gotta do it It's been our lives 25 years of it And then parenting adults because we never talk about what it's like to parent adults We always talk about it as they're as you know when they're children and If you think that there's no control when they're children just imagine Just when they're adults and the and the way parenting changes and has to change So I'm excited to Me too yeah to go through those things a lot, of ground to cover there, and this is one area where I feel very confident saying we have s- a lot of experience and I think different perspectives than what is pervasive in the parenting world right now.
you are Yeah to hear gentle parenting from us.
You're No not going to hear abusive parenting from us.
And I'm excited to have the parenting conversation.
I'll tell Me too.
we're doing it.
Maybe I'll I am not.
out on their own I know that one of ours already listens, so Yes, you have.
We have one of Angie's kids is our super fan.
She's our super fan.
We love you.
Thank you for listening to this, super fan Sam.
Honestly, she's taught me a lot about parenting.
Yeah and I, yeah.
And the one who is, what outwardly would be struggled the most is in the most of my PowerPoints when we have that conversation.
But she's also taught me the most, and she's so fun.
Instagram Ugh.
yesterday.
Oh, I know I almost cried.
I literally almost cried when I saw it, and then Angie, when I saw your response to it, I was like, "This is the goal," to have a Yeah go through the things that she's gone through and be on the other side and be in love with herself and oh my gosh, that is the biggest win.
Biggest, biggest win.
So we're Yep.
emotional, so this is the end.
Yep.
Okay, love Absolutely.
Love you.
Thank you for joining us today.
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We'll be back next week with our very first guest.
We'll be in our second episode of the Joy and Happiness series.
We'll be talking about capturing childlike joy with Jessica Flowers.
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