Latest / Beyond The Horizon / Tyler Robinson Preliminary Hearing Transcripts (Day 2 Part 14) (9/27/26)

Transcript

Tyler Robinson Preliminary Hearing Transcripts (Day 2 Part 14) (9/27/26) · Beyond The Horizon

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up everyone and welcome back to the program. In
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: this episode, we're going to dive right back in to
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: day two of the Tyler Robinson prelim hearing. And to
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: do that, we pick back up with the defense questioning Ms. Baker.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Question okay, and does it contain a statement that support
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: for inclusion is an examiner's conclusion that there's evidentiary support
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: for the inclusion of a known individual as a possible
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: contributor to the DNA typing results obtained from an evidentiary sample? Answer.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: I believe it does. Yes. Question. And did you follow
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: that procedure in the case? Answer. Yes, I did. Question.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: All right. Does the same policy state at page four?
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Fourth down. One more. No. Next one. Does the policy
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: state an examiner shall not assert that a likelihood ratio
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: of any magnitude provides an absolute identification or a source
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: attribution of an individual to an evidentiary sample? Answer. That
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: is correct. Yes, it does state that. Question. and you
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: followed that procedure in this case, did you not? Answer, yes,
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: I did. Question, you're not implying that those numbers that
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: a previous witness quoted and are stated in your report
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: provides an absolute identification of Mr. Robinson or Mr. Twiggs? Answer, no,
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: I'm not. Question, okay, thank you. Can you take that down? Question,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: are you also familiar with a concept called formal activity level? Answer, yes,
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: I am. Question, can you tell the court what that is? Answer,
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: formal activity level is determining an activity that causes DNA
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: to be left behind on an object. Question, and does
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: your laboratory have a policy about whether you can express
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: opinions about formal activity level? Answer, we do have a policy,
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: and I cannot give an opinion as far as activity
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: level goes. Question, and why is that? Answer, that is
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: because DNA can be left behind on an object. for
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: numerous different reasons. So just because DNA is on an
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: item doesn't necessarily mean that an individual touched it or
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: utilized that item. So because of that, we do not
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: opine on what activity may have occurred. Question, and consistent
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: with that policy, you can't tell if you interpret a
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: piece of DNA as being present on an item. You
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: can't tell when that DNA was deposited, correct? Answer, I
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: cannot give an exact time, but there are some situations...
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: If a piece of evidence has been buried for a
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: long time or is in a river for a long time,
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: it would be my expectation, based on my experience, that
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: I probably won't get DNA off an item that's been
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: buried for 10 years, for example. However, I cannot give
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: exact timing as to when the DNA was deposited on
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: an item. Question, and I was talking more about a
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: situation where you can actually find DNA on an object,
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: be it a gun or anything else. You can't say
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: when the DNA was deposited, correct? Answer, that's correct. Question,
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: and how long in general does the DNA persist on
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: an item once you've made contact? How does DNA get
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: deposited on an item in general? Answer, in general, DNA
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: can be deposited a few different ways, by a body fluid,
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: such as saliva, blood, or skin cells. So touching an
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: item or wearing an item, DNA could be deposited. Once
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: DNA is on an item, if it's subjected to ideal conditions,
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: It's out of heat and high UV. It's not subjected
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: to any kind of cleaning or chemicals. It can persist
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: on an item rather indefinitely. It can degrade solely over time,
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: but we've certainly worked items of evidence that are 40
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: or 50 years old, and we've been able to recover DNA. Question. Now,
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: could you explain to the court the concept of degradation
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: of DNA samples, what that means, and what it suggests
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: with your testing? Answer. Sure. So degradation of DNA is
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: breaking up the DNA. So if you think that the DNA,
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: like a long rope, it's essentially taking that rope and
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: cutting it up into pieces. Seeing degradation in a sample
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: could lend me to believe that there may be that
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: the sample may be subjected to cleaning or high heat
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: or an extended period of time. So really, I can't
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: tell why an item is degraded. But looking at my data,
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: I can tell if that sample is potentially degraded or
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: broken down. Question, and two of the items that you
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: examined were referred to as item 7 and 8, correct? Answer,
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: that is correct, yes. Question, one was a towel and
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: one was a screwdriver. Answer, that is correct, yes. Question,
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: were both of those samples degraded to a certain extent? Answer,
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: may I refer to my notes? So item 8 was
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: the screwdriver from the perch. I would say that there
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: was some degradation as I look at my DNA peaks
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: or the DNA data. In an ideal world, If there's
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: no degradation, I would expect all the peaks to be
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: at the same height. Here, I see a ski slope
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: type effect, meaning that the data on the left is
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: a little bit taller than the data on the right.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: As far as item 7, item 7 was the TAU.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: There was a slight amount of degradation, but not as
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: much as item 8. Question okay, and what's the effect
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: or degradation on production of, first of all? What is alleles? Answer,
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: an allele is an individual's DNA type. So we inherit
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: half of our DNA from our mom and half our
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: DNA from our dad. If we're looking at something called
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: short tandem repeats or STRs, these are small segments of
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: DNA that repeat themselves over and over again. We all
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: have those same sections of DNA, but what might differ
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: amongst us is how many times it repeats. And that's
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: actually what we inherit from our parents. So for example,
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: At one particular location, my mom may give me 14
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: repeats and my dad may give me 15. So when
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: I'm looking at the DNA types, I would say that
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: I have two alleles at the location of 14 and
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: a 15. As far as degradation goes, it could cause
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: some of those alleles to do something called dropout, meaning
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: when I'm looking at the DNA chart or the DNA data,
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: I don't see information. I do not obtain numbers at
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: that particular section of DNA. Question number And is it
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: true that in the testing that you are doing in
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: this case, STR testing, what you are looking at is
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: the length of the, what I'll call, have you ever
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: heard of the boxcar analogy? Answer, I have, yes. Question,
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: tell the court what it is. Answer, so the boxcar
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: analogy is how many times that section of DNA repeats.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: So that section is essentially letters. So for example, ACTG.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: So you may have ACTG repeated 10 times or 12 times,
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: Each of those sections of ACTG would be considered one boxcar. Question,
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: and so when you're looking for alleles, you're essentially counting
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: the boxcars? Could be seven boxcars, and that person would
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: be a seven? Answer, that is correct, yes. Question, and
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: from the mom and from the dad, he may have
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: inherited ten boxcars? Answer, that is correct, yes. Question, and
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: so that person at that particular location would be a
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: seven and a ten? Answer, yes. Question, And what you're
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: doing in your testing is comparing those numbers to what
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: you get from a known sample to see if it match. Answer,
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: that is correct, yes. Question, is that true? Answer, yes. Question,
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: now is it true that your, you mentioned the A,
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: the C, the T, and the G, correct? Answer, correct, yes. Question,
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: is it true that you are not measuring the sequence
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: within the boxcars? You're just measuring the length of the boxcars. Answer,
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: that is correct. So the sequence would be equivalent to
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: the letters in a word. What I'm looking at is
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: the number of words versus the letters that make up
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: the word. Question, and we'll talk about this a little later,
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: but people can vary not only in the length of
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: the boxcar, but in the sequence within the boxcar, right? Answer,
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: that is correct, yes. Question, and what you're testing looks
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: at just the length? Answer, correct, yes. Question, okay. And
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: is it also true that you're looking across many different locations? Answer, yes.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: So at the FBI laboratory, we use a kit called
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: Global Filer, and this is looking at 21 different locations
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: on a human's DNA, in addition to three sex-determining locations.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: That lets me know if an individual is biologically a
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: male or a female. Question, as between two individuals, 99%
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: of their DNA is exactly the same, right? Answer, that
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: is correct. And that makes sense. We're all humans. We
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: all have arms, legs, and a head. Less than 1%
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: of our DNA is what? What differs amongst us with
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: the exception of identical twins? Question, but within the 1%,
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: you're looking at these length differences, correct? Answer, correct, yes. Question,
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: and you're looking at what you called short tandem repeats? Answer, yes. Question,
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: you said you looked at 25 locations? Answer, we're looking
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: at 21 locations. and three sex type determining, so 24 total. Question,
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: what are the sex determining? They're called locus, correct? Answer, correct.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: So locus is the individual section of DNA. Question, all right.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: And they typically have names or numbers associated with them, correct? Answer, yes,
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: they do. Question, so what are the sex determining loci? Answer,
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: so there's ameliogenin, and that lets me know if an
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: individual is male or female. And then there's two specific
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: male determining locations. One is Y-indel and one is DYS385.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: Those just let me know that those are specific male individuals. Question, okay.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: And then for the other locations you're looking at, you're
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: just looking for two types of each location. Is that correct? Answer, correct. Yes. Question,
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: for the samples that you're at, the 7A and the 8A,
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: did you get what was called a full profile? Would
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: be a full profile where you have all 23 locations present? Answer,
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: that is correct. A full profile means I have DNA
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: at every single location. It's above our threshold and I'm
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: seeing one or two pieces of information at each location.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: From item 7, I did develop a full profile. Question
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: for item 8. You developed a full profile? Answer. Item
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: 8 was a partial profile, so I did not develop
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: DNA at every single location. Question. What that means in
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: your comparison is that you had certain information in the
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: question sample that for whatever reason doesn't appear, correct? Answer. Correct. Yes. Question.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: So you can't make a comparison at those locations? Answer.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: That is correct. Question, what makes it not appear at
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: certain locations? Answer, it could be there's degradation, so those
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: larger locations could be broken up so that it wasn't
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: detected during the DNA process. It could be a low-level
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: amount of cellular material to begin with, so if I
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: only have a few cells, I may not have enough
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: to detect at every single location. Question, and for the
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: 8-1 sample, did you measure Mr. Robinson and Mr. Twigg's
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: DNA at the 23 locations? Answer, for item 8, I
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: did not have a full profile. I did not have
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: data at all 23 locations to compare it to either Mr.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: Robinson or Mr. Twiggs. Question, but you had full profiles
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: of Mr. Twiggs and for Mr. Robinson, right? Answer, for
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: their known sample, answer yes, question yes. Answer, yes. So
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: for their known sample, that was a sample that was
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: taken directly from those individuals and I did develop a
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: full DNA profile. Question, just to illustrate how it works,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: is one of the loci that you looked at called
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: the DYS-391 loci? Answer, yes it is. Question, and what
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: type was Mr. Robinson at the loci? Answer, at that location, Mr.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: Robinson was an 11. Question, I think you said you
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: inherit one from your mother, one from your father, but
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: when you say he's an 11, technically, what he's called
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: an 11-11, correct? Answer, DYS-391 is actually that male location.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: So he, or anybody, would not have inherited anything from
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: their mother. At this location, I would only expect to
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: see one piece of information, and I did see an
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: 11 there. Question, and for the DS3 loci, what was
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: his type? Answer, his type was a 17. Question, for
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: that loci, you'd expect two types, correct? Answer, that is correct. Question,
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: and when you say he's a 17, do you mean
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: he's actually a 1717? Answer, that is correct. He inherited
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: 17 repeats on that location from mom and 17 from dad. Question,
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: other locations, for instance, the BWA, he's type 18 or 19, correct? Answer,
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: that is correct. Question, so you're looking at those and
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: what the machine produces or peaks, correct? Answer, correct, yes.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: They're just spikes on a graph similar to spikes on
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: a heart monitor. Question, and you said for 8A, you
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: had certain locations where the test samples didn't have any results? Answer,
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: that is correct. Question, at the TPOC location, Mr. Robinson's
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: a type 8 or 9, correct? Answer, that is correct. Question, Mr.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: Twiggs is a type 8 or 11? Answer, that is correct. Question,
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: but when you looked at sample 8A, it didn't have
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: any of those types? Answer, that is correct. So I
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: could not compare at that location. Question, are there certain
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: rules for when you exclude someone? In other words, when
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: you are comparing two samples, are there rules which say,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: Here's where I would conclude that he could not possibly
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: have been contributing to this sample. Answer, yes. Question, your
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: field has a lot of literature written about it, correct? Answer,
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: that is correct, yes. Question, and you generally like to
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: keep up with that literature? Answer, I do, yes. Question,
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: across time, there have been several books, publications that attempt
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: to educate you and courts and lawyers on the technical
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: aspects of DNA testing, right? Answer, correct, yes. Question, One
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: of those books, the early one, DNA Technology and Forensic
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: Science by National Resource Council. Answer, I'm familiar with that, yes. Question,
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: that's an authoritative book. That was really one of the
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: first books on DNA testing. Answer, yes. Question, and then
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: by the same organization, National Resource Council, the Evaluation of
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: Forensic DNA Evidence. Answer, correct, yes. Question, published in 96.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: Are you familiar with that as well? Answer, yes, I am. Question,
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: and then there's an author, I believe, who did his
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: research work at the FBI named Dr. John Butler. Yes,
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: I'm familiar with him, she answers. Question, you've studied his
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: work both in your training and your continuing education? Answer,
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: that is correct, yes. Question, he's got current textbooks on
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: the topic that we're talking about, right? Answer, I'm not
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: familiar with how many textbooks he has. I know he
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: has at least one. Question, fundamentals of forensic DNA typing? Answer, yes. Question,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: familiar with that? Forensic DNA type methodology? Answer, yeah, I'm
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: familiar with that one as well. Question, and forensic DNA
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: typing interpretation? Answer, yes. Question, everybody in your field relies
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: on these publications and uses them as teaching tools? Answer, yeah,
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: I'd agree with that. Question, and then in addition to books,
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: there have been studies that have been done on particular topics, correct? Answer, yes. Question,
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: in this case, we're dealing with mixtures, correct? Answer, yes. Question,
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: and mixtures present certain challenges that are not present when
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: the samples are not mixed, correct? Answer, not necessarily. First,
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: to define a mixture, that simply means DNA from more
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: than one individual in a sample. So if I were
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: to take a sip from a coffee cup, and my
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: husband were also to take a sip, if I were
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: to swab that coffee cup, I'd get a mixture, his
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: DNA and my DNA together. As far as it being difficult,
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: You can have some mixtures where there's one contributor that
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: donates a lot of DNA and the second contributor donates
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: a little bit. For DNA interpretation, that is not challenging
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: for me. Where it can become challenging is if you
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: have four or five individuals within that sample all donating
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: roughly around the same amount. It may be challenging for
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: me to determine if a person is included or not. Question,
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: and you would also agree that the challenge exists in
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: situations where you have what you're called low quantities of DNA. Again,
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: that could be possible. I could have low quantities of
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: multiple individuals, which is simply just saying that I can't
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: determine which piece of DNA goes with which individual, so
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: that's possible. Question, what's a drop-in? Drop-in is where you
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: have an environmental DNA that's not inherent to the sample
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: that's detected during our DNA process. DNA testing is very sensitive,
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: so it could be that we have a peak that's detected,
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: like I said, from the environment. Question, and what is
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: a dropout? Answer, dropout is when you have an allele
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: that is not detected or a piece of DNA information
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: that is not detected. In the DNA chart, there is
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: no number associated with that particular location. Question, degradation can
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: cause dropout? Answer, yes. Question, so if you have a
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: person at a particular location, that's type 14 or 15,
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: And because of degradation, that 15 drops out. What you're
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: seeing on your chart is just 14, right? Answer, that's possible, yes. Question,
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: and that presents a certain challenge, does it? Not, because
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: if the 15 is not there, you could misinterpret that
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: as a 14-14, correct? Answer, not necessarily. We have thresholds.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: We have something called the stochastic threshold. If that 14
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: above that stochastic threshold I'm confident based on our validation,
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: our testing, and my training that the DNA type, there
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: is only a 14. If that 14 falls below the
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: stochastic threshold, that could be an indication that there's another peak.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: So when I'm interpreting, when I'm comparing, if that 14
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: is below threshold and someone's a 14, 15, I will
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: not automatically exclude them. Question, what is stochastic effects? And
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: at this, the prosecution jumps in. I'm going to object
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: at this point. I think we've gone beyond the scope
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: of prelim hearing. I think this is getting into 702
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: material that's not necessary for the probable cause determination. Judge Graff,
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: all right. And to that, the defense jumps back in.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: I think it goes directly to the reliability of the
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: testing results that the state introduced. I think the court
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: has to understand limitations and potential sources of error in
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: order to assess whether these results are reliable. Judge Graff,
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: And in regard to this line of questioning, how far
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: are you going to go on this line of questioning? Answer.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: I have one more question, and then I'm moving on.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: Judge Graff. All right. Prosecution. Prosecution answers. I'll hold him
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: to that. The judge, Mr. Burt, so the objection is overruled.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: You may proceed with that question. Defense. You can answer. Witness.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: Can you repeat your question, please? Question. Tell the court
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: about stochastic effects. Answer. Stochastic effects when you have low-level
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: samples during the DNA copying process. Based on how the
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: DNA is copied, you could have alleles that are copied
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: better than other alleles. Question, on that topic I mentioned stochasticity. before.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: One of the studies that you're familiar with is called
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: the PCAST report. Are you familiar with that report? Answer,
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: yes I am. Alright folks, we're going to wrap up
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: right here and in the next episode we're going to
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: pick up where we left off. All the information that
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: goes with this episode can be found in the description box.