Latest / Claymore: Become Who You Are / #417 Are You In The Wrong Body? How Does the Soul Form the Body? "Eye Has Not Seen, Nor Ear Heard, Nor the Human Heart Conceived, What God Has Prepared For Those Who Love Him"

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#417 Are You In The Wrong Body? How Does the Soul Form the Body? "Eye Has Not Seen, Nor Ear Heard, Nor the Human Heart Conceived, What God Has Prepared For Those Who Love Him" · Claymore: Become Who You Are

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Become who you Are.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Podcast production of the John Paul 2 Renewal Center.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: I'm Jack Rickards, your host.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Hey, thanks for joining me today.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: St Catherine of Siena said that if you become who you are, that you would literally set the world on fire.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: And St Athanasius, an early church father and the doctor of the church, said the son of God became man so that we might become God.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: I beg a while to guess at this, but I bet you, most of us, are a bit disconnected from this divine life that these saints are pointing us to.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Yet St John Paul II said there's an echo of this story, of this divine life that we're created for, inscribed in each human heart, in your human heart, and if you put on a proper lens, if I put on a proper lens, we can get in touch with this echo within us in such a way that we have that moment.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: See, that's the genus of St John Paul II in theology the body.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: It connects our lived experience of life to the gospel in such a way that our life takes on a whole new meaning and helps us answer those big questions that our whole culture is so confused about today.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Who am I?
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: What's my purpose?
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Why were we created male and female?
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: How do I find happiness here on earth?
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: How do I find love that satisfies forever?
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: Hey, glad you're with me.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: I'll be right back for today's episode.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: I'm excited to be back in action.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Just drove in from Denver.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: I'm connected here to Linda Piper in Pennsylvania.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: So, linda, good to see you.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: How are you?
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: Hi, jack, I'm doing good, you know.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: I must say I was uplifted.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: I tell you this often, but the panoramic view I have of the earth from my home here is so fantastic and on Saturday we have them had the most beautiful rainbows, the double rainbow, but you could, I could stand at one point on my deck and see both ends of the rainbow, and they were bright, bright, bright.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: You know which way do I run for that kind of goal?
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: I wasn't sure, but I'm telling you it was really gorgeous and it's so uplifting just to remind me of the beauty and the awesomeness that is our God.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: So that spurs me on to continue with what we're trying to do here, with sharing theology of the body.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: I'm glad you had a safe trip and I'm ready to go.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: Thank you for that.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, so I think that's what this crazy world has lost touch with a lot is the sacramental meaning of all our creation.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: All of creation is a sacrament, and that it reveals something of God, something of God's beauty, something of something he wants to tell us.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: He's given us the Amago day.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: So, to be like God, what does that mean?
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: We have reason and intellect, so we're born, we come into the stage and we see the beauty all around us, and then we're giving reason so we can search for the truth.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: What is the search of the truth?
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: What does that rainbow mean, right?
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: You know, as we know from scripture, the rainbow is not the multi-colored.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: You know, let's have sex every way you could think of.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: It's a covenant.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: It is speaking about marriage, though, but it's speaking about marriage and sexuality in a very beautiful way, in this life-giving, spousal meaning of the body.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: So this is my body, given for you.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: This is a total outpouring of selfishness.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: It's the opposite of pride parades.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: It's the opposite of using and abusing people.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: It's the opposite of trying to figure out how many orifices do you have to have sex in.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: You know, I mean, this is disgusting stuff when you start to think about the beauty of God's plan for our bodies, and now we're going to take it then from the beginning, which is, we were infused with grace and we're able to give this to one another in marriage and the sign of trinitarian love in the world.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: In the beginning, before the fall.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: Then we had the fall and sin, and we know the three folk concupiscence, we know it very well and it's, you know, the concupiscence of the eyes where we look out at the material world.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: Here's what I want to say now.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: So you, as I'm thinking about this, I think about these transgender movements and all this crazy stuff that I see are hurting our young people so much, and there's still an innocence of our young.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: And when I think about those things, I think, okay, here's a body and they're looking at a body, but there's no objective truth anymore.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: There is no truth.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: So that sacramental sign that's supposed to be showing us of, you know, a little tiny taste of trinitarian union, of a way that two become one, become three people and one, it gets distorted and twisted because we lose that sacramental value.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: But here's the thing I was thinking just now is that I look at a body, now three folk concupiscence, and there's no doubt this is going on today.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: So I look out and concupiscence of the eyes.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: So I look out at the material world and I say this is all there is.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: This is all there is which you would think would fall into that rainbow.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: You just said, okay, see the rainbow, but this is all there is.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: That should move my heart.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: But what does it do?
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: Instead, they say, well, if I'm trans than I'm that material body.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: I see there's no objective truth to what I actually see.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: But then I'm thinking to myself well, who do they think is inside that body?
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: Is there a being inside that body?
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: Because we don't believe in eternal life, we don't believe there's a God, we don't believe there's a plan for us.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: If there is a God, right, he's not expressing it out in this material world.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: So who is that person within your body that's uncomfortable with your body?
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: If it's just material world we got to grasp and take, who's that being within us?
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: That being is your soul, that, that, that, that embodied spirit, right, we're in a body that reflects the inner life of the spirit.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: You can see, when that disruption comes, it really affects who we are at a very deep level, does it?
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: Right, well, thinking, who is this body and what is this about?
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: You know, how am I supposed to live?
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: What does any of it mean?
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: You can see that there's so much confusion when I'm looking at the world through that lens and while it may seem that there's no truth anymore, that is an illusion, because the objective truth still exists.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: It's still there and when I look at that rainbow, I see that promise that God made, that he is still saying to me personally I'm still here and the truth still exists, the beauty still exists and you still have to struggle for it.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: You know, life is going to be a struggle.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: We're told.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: Take up our cross and follow Jesus.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: So we can't get away from that.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: But the culture and cancel culture and all those things have done such a job on trying to convince us that none of that is real.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: And In our Theology of the Body study we're actually now in audience 67 here on December 9th 1981, looking at is anything beyond this world real?
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: And the Pope does such a wonderful job of describing to us this is what is real and this is what we need to look at, because for me, as we struggle through all the issues that life throws at us and the young people being hold lies, outright lies about their bodies and what it all means, which makes the ordinary struggles even that much more difficult.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: It is very easy to lose hope that there really is anything beyond this mess.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: And the hope exists greatly in the resurrection, because if we don't believe that Jesus rose from the dead, then we really have nothing to base that hope on.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: And this is what the Pope is trying to teach us here that the resurrection gives us that hope and that understanding that it is all real and we must seek, reach out and seek the truth because it's there.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: And I'm hoping that our discussions will help clear up at least a little bit of the confusion that reigns.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: So John Paul starts out this audience in the resurrection.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: They take neither wife nor husband but are like angels in heaven.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: They are equal to the angels in being sons of the resurrection.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: They are sons of God.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: This puts us up at a very high level.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: Not only a spiritualization, meaning that our souls, again, our bodies, express the soul, so we're embodied souls.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: So the spiritualization of that, meaning that we're infused with grace.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: Well, it's even more than that.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: John Paul calls it later on, divinization of the body.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: So we are elevated to the state of angels and even beyond that.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: And when you start to think about that, the glory of who we are and the glory of who we're supposed to be.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: You know, this starts now and the it's crazy, this corruption is.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: I see it's so interesting.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: St Paul quotes here in Romans 7, verse 23,.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: I see in my members another law at war with the law of my mind.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: So here's that battle, this trans battle even that we're seeing, you know, when your body and your mind and soul are in such disconnected, such disarray.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: Well, this is the state of fallen man.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: And these poor young people, to your earlier point, are told a lie Instead of understanding that we came into a fallen world and we need this grace, this infusion of grace, to bring this back into order again.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: They're not told that, and so they're told a lie that you can be like, you can decide that evil is good and good is evil, and you can recreate yourself.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: Well, this is an impossibility, of course, and yet we believe it.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, it just shows you how wild you know when there's a darkness available that comes over your eyes and your senses, even how deep we can go.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: You know once there's no objective truth on the outside.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: In other words, if I could look at a male body and not see a man but see a possibility of a woman trying to express herself through that, if I could see that objective truth and not call it truth anymore that it's all subjective, it's all my feelings.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: Well, what happens that outside reality?
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: Truth comes from the outside.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: So I look around and I'm discovering the truth.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: I discover what does this mean?
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: And so I look at a body and I say what does that mean?
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: Right, the beauty and power of say, a woman's body to a man, a man's body to a woman.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: When I no longer accept the truth from the outside, this gets internalized and I no longer accept the truth on the inside.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: So I become feeling, so my inner life becomes confused, I no longer accept what I see, and then it becomes feelings, and then the feelings control everything.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: This is where you get back to St Paul.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: I see in my members another law at war with the law of my mind.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: This, totally, this is the total disruption of who we are on the inside, and can you imagine why?
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: we're anxious, nervous, we're yelling and screaming at one another.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: It's amazing dysfunction that's going on right.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: That disintegration you talked about between body and soul, and mind is a faculty of the soul.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: It is really the source of so many of the issues that we see here.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: And originally, when we look back at original man, so the soul was to control the body, so to speak.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: The soul infuses the body and we've reversed that with feelings being in control, Because now it's whatever I think and I feel that's the truth.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: But you know, I begin watching a video today that is looking at the whole trans situation and I saw some of the things that they're actually teaching the children and the approach is such that there is no other way of thinking.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: This is the only way, so that if you are having this confusion, that's because and they go right to you're in the wrong body and no wonder you're having this confusion and you know, jump right to.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: Well, let's change that and there's no sense of another way of looking at it.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: And so from the beginning, in original innocence, before the fall, God had us rightly ordered where we wouldn't have this body-soul conflict, this disintegration.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: That's exactly what happened at the fall.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: And yet in audience 67, Pope John Paul is telling us that in the resurrection, in the eschaton, that that will reverse completely and that we will once again this spiritualization that you use is saying we're going to put this back together where we're not going to have that opposition of body and soul, and the soul, in fact, will infuse the body and we will fully become who we were meant to be.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: You know, the glory of God is a human body fully alive.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: We will experience all of that by the infusion of God's grace.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: And I read this and I just kind of go, wow, let me stop and think about that and see how that impacts my life right now, before we get to the eschaton, before we die and experience what is when the veil has been removed.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: You know, within our souls, and it's not so much, I don't think that the soul controls the body, but it's the body was supposed to express the inner life, the soul itself.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: So your body, when it's not an opposition to the soul, is expressing perfectly your soul, which should be united with God.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: So instead we have this opposition.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: Well, eschatological man will be free from this opposition.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: So we'll be spiritualized, divinized, and this begins now.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: We're in this process, now we're not going to reach the course there, but when these young people, they need to hear the gospel proclaimed that I'm keep coming back to this, I guess in today's session, because I feel so bad for those lies that you just alluded to, linda these young people, look at, we're free.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: So if we want to walk away from God, which most of the most of the world is doing right now, certainly in the Western world, and so that's their choice.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: But they also have to leave a choice, and this is what the difference is.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: You see them to your point being shutting down the opposition voices, so they're only going to hear one side.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, we have to.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: That plays out both ways.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: If you want to be free to choose, then I have to be able to be free to choose.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: But here's what happens when there's no objective truth anymore and you start to lose the argument, you can't argue against this stuff anymore.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: So what happens, linda?
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: That the we go from the superficial phase that we're in now this is kind of a late stage phase that exorcists will talk about when you start to really lose yourself to the demons of the world and that's where you don't understand objective truth anymore.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: But once, once you say with you know, you accept these ideologies, you no longer see the truth.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: Well then the dictators and the tyrants of the world step in and they continue those lives.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: So you see those lies within the church, within the German bishops right that you know.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: Same sex marriage is OK, except.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: Well, look at, you know we know church teaching.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: You know this is not something new.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, you could see these, these guys, trying to twist and distort that.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: You could see that happening in governments.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: Now, when you think about covid, look out, look out, in two weeks the governments of the world shut down the whole world.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: That's the power that they have.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: They actually, in two weeks they shut down everything in the whole world and you go.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: Well, how could that power be Well.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: When we lose objective truth, we no longer know how to act, what to stand up.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: We're controlled, usually by fear, and then we step back and they know exactly what they're doing.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: The devil's no fool, and so he twists and distorts.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: So, again, the reason I bring this all up is we have to aim ourselves at Jesus Christ.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: We have to know that a young person has to know when they're, when they're feeling uncomfortable in their bodies, they've come into a fallen world and they've come into a world that wants to objectivize them, use them, abuse them.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: You know, look at them to be used, and this is the opposite of everything.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: It's only Christ, the life in Christ, that's going to be able to untwist undistort.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: You know your the branch will be back on the vine, linda, and we'll start to infuse you and then we can look out into this eschatological life and see that God is calling us into this perfect union and communion with them.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: But it starts now.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: Right, right.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: I like how you said losing the objective truth.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: It's like we lose sight of it.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: The objective truth itself still exists, but we have gotten, you know, really far away from it.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: And to your point on the young people feeling uncomfortable in their bodies, I think we could all look back to those years and say feeling uncomfortable as our bodies are changing in those teenage years is something I would think is almost a universal experience, because we're changing and so we're going to feel uncomfortable and so those powers that be who want to objectify and use the young people are going to give a reason for it.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: That simply is not the truth and young people don't understand that they're being used this way because they said you know, you're kind of in this situation where you say I just I don't feel right, I don't feel good.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: You know this, this doesn't feel good.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: You know, get me out of this, help me.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: And rather than going through the struggle that we all need to, as we recognize again, Jack, I, you know, just popped in my head the beauty of how, developmentally, as a teenage girl, your body is getting ready to experience, if God calls you to marriage, to become a mother, one of the most you know beautiful things that could ever happen to a woman, if she's being called to that life and we lose total sight of that.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: That.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: This is all part, you see, of that bigger plan and I, I weep.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: Who are the girls?
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: The stories that I've heard where they've been so confused and they've started on testosterone and, you know, at some point realize this isn't what they want to do, and you can see the diabolical process working there as they get so confused because, having lost sight of the objective truth, as I would say, let's get a little bit more specific the objective truth of what our bodies are for, you see, and how God had planned for us to use our bodies, you know, as we are gifted with being a co-creator of life with him, you see, all of those kind of come into play, I think, when we consider what the young people are losing as a result of what the culture is trying to do to them.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: And when you think about what this is all pointing to is you know, as the catechism says so well, that God is an eternal exchange of love and we're destined to share in that exchange.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: This is what this is going about.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: We're totally permeated by God, a union and communion of God, that's reciprocal gift of the spousal meaning of the body.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: We've become so intimate with God, you know God wants to marry us, that's.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: The book of Revelation points to all of this and the amazing stature of a human being.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: You know, I was thinking this morning as I was praying the rosary, that our Blessed Mother is the Queen of Heaven.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: A human being is the Queen of Heaven.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is where we were.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: You know we're supposed to be to visit, you know, divinized human beings right now, you know, and so this is where we're going to be union with the community.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: We got in and, as John Paul would say here, and of course the Gospels will say, we don't know what that's going to look like.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: St Paul talked about that right Eye has not seen or ear has not heard Yet.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: Yet if we see objective truth in nature, I see, just like Jesus said, what is heaven going to be like he said.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: You know, one of the things examples is a mustard seed, and if I take that little tiny mustard seed and I look at it, I have no idea how big this thing is going to get.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: You know, I got a big oak tree in my yard, right?
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: And you say, okay, when I looked at that seed from that oak tree, I have no idea what that was going to look like, right.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: I mean I'm looking at that seed, you don't know.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: So we put it in the ground.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: It dies, it sparks and it comes to life.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: That is what we're doing, our human nature right now, the way we are right now in this fallen world, is like the seed that's going to die and then God is going to make us into something spectacular that we have no idea exactly what it's going to be like.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: We got a taste at the transfiguration with Jesus.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: We got a taste, when he came back and he was still on earth after his resurrection, that they didn't recognize him right away, but in that transfiguration everything was white and glowing and powerful and they knew something big was happening there, didn't it?
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: Yes, that reminds me of the scripture passage eye has not seen, ear has not heard what God has ready for those who love them.
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: I love hearing that song, I love just thinking about that.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: When we're using our terms, spiritualization and divination, there is a difference between the two that the Pope talks about, so that spiritualization is the spirit permeating the energies of the body and, as you say, as we experience that here on earth, it's that we would have less of that conflict of, as St Paul puts it, I don't do what I should do and I do what I don't want to do.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: You know that ongoing conflict.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: So with the spiritualization there's less of that conflict.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: But the reason we can never retain it perfectly is because of that threefold concubicence.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: We're just not going to experience it perfectly here and I think we all need to realize that.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: And well, what then?
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: Well, that's why we have confession and the sacrament, so we go back to that aspect.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: But the divinization is how you describe that participation in the inner life of God, so that it's God's life, his grace, totally infusing both body and soul, and we'll have that intimacy with God, we'll have that marriage with God.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: But here's the point he brings up.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: Along with that idea is that we will be so totally infused with that self, giving love from God, but we won't lose who we are.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: In fact, who we are, that subjectivity, who I am as an unique, indiv, unrepeatable individual, will be completely how shall I say?
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: You know, I'll be in my glory of who God meant me to be through that infusion, so that we don't lose who we are.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: But it's actually fulfilled.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: And I know that's difficult on this side of the veil to understand what that means.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: But I'm going to go back to that echo that we always have in our heart, that we feel like I know I'm meant for something more and I know I'm meant for somebody, something that is fully me, you see, and we have trouble, I have trouble expressing it, but what we're told here is that we will experience that fully, but it does start now, as you said, because the more that we are participating through grace with that inner life of God, the more we do become who we intended us to be.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: Thank you for letting me go on here.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: Well, I think, you know, I think you can get a little taste of this again, and that's phosal meaning of the body.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: You know who doesn't.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: Anybody that's, you know, remembers back, say you're married and maybe months before that right.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: And you can't get enough of the other person.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: I mean that person is on your mind constantly.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: You know you want to be in union and community.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: You want to be in their physical presence all the time when you're not together.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: There's an ache in your heart for that.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, we know that the saints and the mystics talk about that with God and we know that.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: I mean I know that feeling with God, you know.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: I mean it's that feeling that doesn't go away, that every day I wake up and right away I think, oh yeah, there's an ache in here that needs to be filled, and it's like that young love and I and I and you wonder, well, how can that not go away?
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: Well, it never has gone away with God, you know.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: I mean there is something there in my heart and I would have a hard time walking away from this faith at this point because it doesn't go away anymore.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: I mean I think over the years we've opened our hearts enough and allowed God to bring enough grace in and enough experience.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: When you see the other side of this, when you walk away from God, that's not a good feeling for me, you know.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: That's like not seeing that beautiful young bride, you know my wife when I used to just ache and pine, you know, because I hadn't seen her for a couple of days, for whatever reason.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: And that's the way I feel, you know, and especially if something comes into your life and puts a barrier in there, I mean I need to get my you know what to confession because that's a barrier and I cannot live with that barrier anymore.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: And the saints and the mystics talk about that.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, when you start to think about the, you know, teresa of Avila and that famous scene of hers, right that the sculpture of Bernini and ecstasy.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: Ecstasy, thank you.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa of Avila and you just Google that and you can just see this kind of orgasmic power of the movement of the body and the soul to God, and she would describe it in a very sensual term.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: Saint Catherine of Siena same type of a situation.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: You know where they would be lifted and put into trances and come down again, you know.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, beautiful stuff and our tradition is so beautiful.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: Isn't it here that we have the religious that actually skip marriage here and go to that marriage of the lamb and you go.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: Sometimes we don't think of it without that.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: Enough to think can somebody really be fulfilled without marriage here?
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: And it's possible.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: You know the saints and the mystics we had talked about earlier.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: Jack too, that marriage is that sign for us here of that union.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: And once you've arrived, you know, like the traffic sign analogy, you know the signs point us in a certain direction, but once you've arrived there, you don't need the signs, you don't need your GPS anymore, you're there.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: And so it's very clear that once we are in the eschaton, that that sign of marriage, of that union, is no longer needed because we're there, we're in the marriage of the lamb, the marriage feast, and so the idea of, well, you know, am I not going to be married to my husband in heaven doesn't upset me the way it does some others when I view it this way, that why would I need marriage when I'm now in that union with God, and he is too.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: Hopefully he will be there as well, so that we have helped each other on that path as we go.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: But then that's our ultimate goal is that union with God.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: Not the delete button, but the complete button.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: Huh.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: And that's where we're going and the beauty of that.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: And then you could see today when people don't have a faith, and you could see what happens when that sign that we're talking about marriage and the family has been distorted and has been twisted and and and you know, I mean just totally disfigured.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: We no longer even have the sign.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: So you wonder, without that sign we no longer know how to get to the eschaton anymore.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: We don't know what that's like.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: And we're not even sure that it exists there.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: Right, Because you take the signs away what's left?
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what's left, and I just make it up as I go now.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: And so that's the state of the world now.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: You know, we don't understand where we came from.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: We don't understand the fall.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: We've normalized the fall and we're grasping and taking and trying to fill.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: We're like ravenous creatures that are just trying to fill ourselves in any way we can, and it's a sad world.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: We need to be evangelized.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: We need to be evangelized.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: We need people to have enough courage that when they see people in pain, to ask them are you in pain?
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: And to walk up and really lay hands on them and just say Jesus Christ loves you and he's calling you into a personal relationship with him.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: You know, so many people I think even in the Catholic Church, but certainly Christians across have lost that zeal.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: They no longer have the zeal.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: But you know they're.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: they're barely alive at mass and stuff, and certainly not trying to live that out at home.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: Certainly not enough to push back at the culture.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: Certainly not enough to reach out to these young people, lay your hands on them and tell them I know that you're hurting, you know, except Jesus Christ in your life and and and have them pray with you.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: We don't have the guts to do any of that anymore.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: So we leave these poor young people floundering and it's nobody's getting to them.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: You know they're not hearing the gospel.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: Well, that's true in large part, but I still hold out hope that many of those who are still making some effort in the youth ministry area and even parents themselves, are climbing such an uphill battle.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: If, if I'm a parent who is working towards helping my children understand all these things and and that Jesus is the answer, I used to, shall we say, back in the 50s and 60s at least the culture and society was supportive of that, and now the parents don't even have that kind of support in large part, and so many of them, if they're not getting help from other parents, you know they feel very isolated and have a very difficult struggle and that emptiness that you talk about, you know I was thinking, going back to what we said earlier, about losing that objective truth.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: When I lose sight of that, it's like I have this vacuum.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: You know it's just this big empty vacuum and something's got to fill, and those who are pushing their ideologies are the ones who have jumped right into that vacuum.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: So to your point about we've got to do more evangelizing totally agree, and I think theology of the body is one of the greatest tools that we've been given in the recent decades to do that, because it pulls it all back to who am I?
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: How am I supposed to live?
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: You know what, actually?
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: What is the meaning of life?
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: And it totally fills that vacuum if I make any attempt to understand these points.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: Yes, and just as we wind down here, parishes need to step up to the plate too.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: So first of all, it's going to be, it is already handed down to the lady.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: You know, you can't wait for any anybody within the church to do this.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: You have to tie this together Again.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: I get back to this.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: You know I use it as an image, but to lay hands on people and pray with them and then to invite them into the church because I don't see anybody else doing that I see a lot of bishops and a lot of priests who are silent, who are fearful, who are also apathetic, and somehow there's a veil over their eyes too.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: But we can't blame it just on them.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: You know, the laity has to do their job right now, and we have to go out and bring these people in, and not just into the church, but for them to be empowered, to know that they can know Jesus Christ right where they're at right, where they're standing, to open this up to them Right, and then, if they want to make love to Jesus, then you go to confession and receive the Eucharist.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: It's like making love to your spouse, you know.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is an intimate union that we're talking about here, and this is purposely linked in Ephesians 5.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: Husbands love your wives, wives love your husbands, as Christ loves the church.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: And so, yeah, so you're not, you're not seeing a lot of courage from parishes.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: And so what do we do?
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: Well, we have to create those communities, those parent groups within the church, as a subsector of all the other things going on in the church.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: Every single parish should have a place for young families that can gather, can discuss these kind of things, can support one another, because, you're right, we have to create the culture, at least within a parish, so that they could find like-minded people and we could talk about these things together.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: Why parishes aren't doing that all over and just leaving, kind of leaving.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: And you mentioned youth ministers and all that.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there are a couple of good youth ministers and I see them.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: They're trying, but they're you know, my goal to these things all the time, linda, and you know when I get there they're playing kumbaya, I mean, they're running around playing games and you know, whatever.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: Hey, look at I get it.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: Have fun with the kids, but they're not seriously.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: And I'm generalizing here there are some very good, but too many of them are playing, you know tic-tac-toe and all these different I mean whatever and being in the exact games.
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: But you know, at the end of the day this is.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: You know they got to bring some serious stuff down, these kids some serious conversations.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: And let them speak you know, let them speak what's on their minds and stuff.
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: You know, hey look it.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: I know they're working hard and stuff like that, but and they're frustrated too, I think, sure sure.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: I think it's a clarion call, though, for all of us whether I'm a parent struggling or whatever, to deepen our own spiritual life, our own prayer life.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: When you talked about being unable to walk away now because the depth of the faith you know clearly has what captured your soul, your mind, your heart, I experienced that in adoration.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's love, I mean it's love yes.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: There's no way around it.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: If you don't understand that God loves you, that he created this amago day, this image of man, woman and child, what is that?
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: That's love.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: And so he created us to express love in the world.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: That's, that's what your body and your soul your body again is to express love.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: It's created to express the inner life of your soul, which should be united with God himself and expressing love.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: So, yes, that's what.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: That's why that ache is there, because it's a love story.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: It's always been a love story.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: If you don't believe in love and divine life and love, then then forget the story, because that's what God is.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: God is love.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: It's not that we love God, but that God loved us first and in fact, he loved us into existence.
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know theology.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: The body helped me understand that, jeff, because I went through a time, some difficulties, where I too thought how can there be a God that is love?
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: Because the way my life is going, it sure doesn't seem so.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: And yet it became clear to me that, if I really understand this is a love story and God is love, then God cannot not love, he can't not love, and that was a way of thinking that really struck me to believe in the story and to believe that, yes, god is in fact love.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: And talk about, you know, wanting to spend time with your lover.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: It really strikes me in adoration, and I would encourage people who are, you know, kind of thinking about trying to get to adoration to really do it.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: That's when I experience.
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: I don't want to leave, you know, I'm there and I have to go back out into all the day to day things, you know, but you really do experience that love.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: It really becomes real, and then you know that that truth exists and we have to go out there and express that through our bodies, that we have to love others, not just with my own love, but with that love kind of like radiating to me, you know, like when you're sitting out in the sun and you feel the warmth of the sun.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: It's really something like that.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: You're feeling that love radiates through you and that's what you use to go out and help the others and love others.
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: You know the two great commandments, linda huh, yeah, Just love God.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: And there's a reason they have him in that order, isn't there?
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: To love God?
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: To live the life of love and then become that love in the world.
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: Hey, god bless you.
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: Thanks for your input.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: Thanks, everybody, for joining us.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: We'll talk to you again next week.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: Bye-bye.
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: Thank you, bye, god bless you.