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When “It’s Normal” Doesn't Feel Helpful · Conversations Beyond Borders

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, welcome.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Susan.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm Laura.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to Conversations Beyond Borders.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: Let's start this episode with a question because I think it's a really great way to start with our listeners.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: I think they're going to recognize this topic.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Are you ready?
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: What what you got?
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever told someone, you know, something pretty sensitive, maybe emotional, it could be physical, and you simply get a response of, well, that's just normal at this age.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: I hate it.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: I hate it when it's just so brushed aside.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: We're not suggesting that aging doesn't bring changes.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Of course it does.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: But we're talking about something different here.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you can respond to why that is a pet peeve of yours.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: How does that make you feel?
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: So when I bring up something, especially that has to do with menopause.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, actually, now that I think about it, I don't know that I bring up anything that doesn't have to do with menopause.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: You're right.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when I bring up something that has to do with menopause, and I am told that that's normal.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: This is just the way it is.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: I feel completely dismissed.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: I feel completely unheard.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not one of those people that's okay with, well, this is how we've always done it.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like this is how your mom did it.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: This is how your grandma did it.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: This is how your, you know, aunt did it.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's like, you know what?
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to do it like that.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: You were telling me about, I think it's important to share an example at the doctor's office.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I go in to talk to my doctor, and um, early in menopause, you know, when you go through menopause, you hear about the hot flashes, you're ready for that, you hear about maybe the mood swings.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: So you're kind of, you know, bracing yourself and preparing your family for that.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, I mean, you typically hear through your family, right?
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly, exactly.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: But what at least I never knew is that insomnia is one of those very common symptoms of menopause.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so when I got hit with it, I was like, what?
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: So, so I go to my doctor and I'm talking to her, and I'm like, yeah, I'm really having a hard time sleeping.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, is there something we can do?
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: And she just looks at me and says, Well, that's where you're at in life, and this is normal, and this is what we deal with at this time of our lives.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, no, that's not okay.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you want you want answers.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you want, yes, I think you want to met with, you know, a serious discussion of this must be affecting the quality of your life.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, exactly.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, when when I'm not sleeping at night and and lucky to get, you know, at that time I was lucky to get three hours of sleep.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it's absolutely affecting my quality of life.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: And and I will say I get that, you know, they were maybe she was concerned that I was, you know, drug shopping and looking for a sleep med.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, if that's what it ended up needing to be, then yes, I should be given that option.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, give me other things, you know, give me ideas.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I would have been happy if she would have said, hey, just start drinking chamomile tea at night.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, anything.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: Just give me something.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: Don't just tell me this is this is normal.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: Or how is it impacting your life?
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: What does that look like?
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because let's face it, you know, there's probably a long list of things in midlife in that chapter that they hit us from nowhere.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I just would like midlife women out there to recognize that this term of it's normal, it might be normal for you, right?
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: But it's not the same for everyone else.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: We experience this all very differently, exactly, and to group us and and put us and lump us into this chapter of life that it that is sort of dismissed in something that we just have to deal with.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's not really it's not really how I want to live.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: So Well, you know what it is I gotta say though, it almost feels like they're putting us out to pasture.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you're you're you're you're you're perimenopausal or your menopausal.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: We're just gonna put you over here and we're not even gonna go over there and deal with it.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: Go over there.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: Go sit in the corner and deal with it and come back to us later.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, today that's what we're talking about.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: We're you know, two little words obviously have Laura and I a little spun up.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: Quite emotional, quite, quite quite ready to have this conversation about it's normal and why um why that doesn't, you know, the the response and how how the treatment that we're talking about, it doesn't provide comfort, it doesn't provide a level of understanding or even the answers that we're looking for.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: No, no.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, Susan, we're gonna move on to the next segment of this conversation.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: What's that gonna be about?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the next segment of this conversation is when normal feels dismissive.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I will tell you, I think one of the first places women hear this is normal, and we start to feel dismissed is when we when we first start talking about these physical changes we go through in menopause.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, I agree.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, like we have said in the past, those are the obvious, right?
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: Right, the ones that we're living out loud.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: But I think there's a lot of internal things that that are going on, or what you're saying about physical changes and how that lack of sleep impacts so many parts of your day, right?
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right?
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: So to not be heard and to be not taken seriously, I just I think this goes back to maybe maybe another thing that maybe women are thinking, like, are we just are we just complaining?
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no, no, nor should we feel that way.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, because it's not helping you at three in the morning to have your head spinning and not knowing, you know, what to do about it.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's why it would be nice to have someone come up with some suggestions.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, it's like, okay, so I would feel a lot better at three o'clock in the morning with my head swimming if I was trying something.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean it's like, okay, that didn't work.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go on to the next thing.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I think what it is, is it's hope, right?
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: Is if you get recommendations and suggestions, it offers hope that you can find a solution and you can start feeling better.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think it is based in hope.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's it's being able to understand that this thing is happening, regardless of what it is, that you can get some control and you can have hope for a better quality of life.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: And because we're we're left feeling like we we should just accept it, or you know, that somehow it's our problem to deal with, right?
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's a pretty lonely place to do that.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think women need to talk about those conversations they have in the doctor's office, but we need to be bringing it back to our daughters.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: You and I both have daughters, and isn't it time to just put that dismissive reaction to this topic in a box somewhere?
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, agree, agree.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: And and and I will say that I believe we are getting better as a culture about talking about menopause.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: I if you think about, you know, they they wouldn't even call it menopause, they called it the change.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Jesus, I mean, it's gotta, I mean, it it's like what we can't use a clinical term.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, what the hell?
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, if you think about our grandmothers, let's take it, let's take it that far back.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and even and I would say even with our, well, maybe not as much with our mothers, but definitely with our grandmothers, I will guarantee you, because menopause is all about women's reproductive health, there is a shame, and there is a level of it's dirty and discomfort.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and we can't talk about that.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: Awkward, we can't talk about that.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: Right, we can't talk about that.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: And when we were preparing for this, you went even further, and I think it's okay to say that that I don't know about you, but I I really didn't receive a an extensive um discussion or preparation for when my period was coming.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: See, that's it.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's because and then that yeah, that's a good point.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's like just because we bleed and menopause, you know, has to do with the bleeding, nobody wants to talk about it.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's gross, it's icky, it's dirty.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, guess what, people?
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: We are women and we are not gross and icky and dirty.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a part of what we have been created to do to create life.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know what?
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: Let's normalize talking about it, which which I do believe moving forward, our future generations are going to do a better job with that because I hope and I think, at least with this conversation, um, and in my little circle, we are doing a better job of even talking about it with each other.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: I know I do a great job of talking about it with my husband.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: The poor thing has to hear about it all the time.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we can normalize it and take the stigma and any sort of shame out of it.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's ridiculous.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: You think about it.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: Shame over something that we are naturally created to do.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, but I I think I think that's uh that's a big piece of of why it gets dismissed is people are just uncomfortable.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: They don't want to talk about it.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: People might not know what to say when a friend comes to them with a major concern and a worry, as you said, you didn't know that insomnia was like like that could be attached to something else that has nothing to do with menopause, like again, the grouping of and the assumption that these symptoms are are all experienced all the same way by everyone, right?
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um is ridiculous.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I think uh we need to take a look at what would you want to hear?
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: What would you know the whole premise of sharing is caring, instead of being dismissive, what do you think is important to hear?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: Or what would you give me as a friend?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um first of all, I would love to say, oh my god, I'm so sorry.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: If it's not, I know exactly how you feel.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: It would be I can only imagine how incredibly frustrating this is.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: Have you used Chat GPT to try and find a solution?
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: No, seriously, I would offer my own um experiences.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: This works for me.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: And this works for me.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, I I agree.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think uh there's even the time, maybe, you know, where maybe the friend just wants to vet and it just wants to be validated and heard, and and she just wants you to listen.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're right.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: And they may not be they may not be looking for a solution.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: You're absolutely right there.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: My default go-to when someone comes to me with a problem is I gotta fix it.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a fixer, I gotta fix it.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: And you are absolutely right.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: Not everybody is looking for a fix all the time, they're just looking to be heard.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, to wrap up the the first section here about this whole dismissive conversation, and I'm hoping we've offered that that you know it doesn't happen.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe what we really need to do is replace that normal word um with common.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: I like that.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: And realize that just because something's common doesn't mean it's comfortable for you or manageable for me, or something that someone else should have to live with without support, or that we should just accept it and do nothing about it.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: To move on to the next section, we're really gonna look at something that is also important in this discussion, I think, and something I've been thinking about is that with this dismissive reaction that we get from from someone else.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that's also common, maybe for for women our age then, to start dismissing our own feelings?
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think it it kind of goes back to that antage that you hear it over and over and you become the thing or you believe the thing.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: No, absolutely.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: It can creep into uh negative self-dialogue, and when we start getting uncomfortable or we make the mental checklist on the things we want to talk to the doctor about, we can very easily start to be very dismissive of ourselves.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you mentioned when we were preparing this adage of comparison.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: Mmm, yeah, and we all do it, we all do it.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: I was watching an interview with Oprah.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was back in the day when she had her show.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: Back in the day.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: When you have a car, you get a car, you get a car.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: You get menopause, you get menopause, you get menopause, you get a hot flash.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: So much wisdom from that woman, you know, from herself or her her guests.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: But so there were a lot of things I latched on to, but there's one in particular where she said, trauma is trauma is trauma.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: So to me, taking that concept and considering menopause and symptoms and and our level of being uncomfortable in what we go through.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just because your hot flashes may be worse than mine, or you get them more frequently, does not mean that I am not struggling at the same level.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so to compare what we're going through to someone else and use that as a tool to be dismissive towards ourselves is not fair.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: It is not fair.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's not productive.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: No, I think we have to begin to realize there's a difference between complaining and acknowledging correct.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that something's different, but giving our audience, our listeners, permission to confirm things that are hard and discuss them in healthy ways.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Right with friends and family.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: I gotta tell you, Laura, a funny thing about about this whole thing and about the caring is sharing, and sharing, sharing is caring.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: In my experience, men even have gotten a lot more comfortable with discussing their conditions.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: My husband has had a recent prostate um uh let's call procedure, and he talks about it with his friends, his male friends, like it's a badge of honor.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, you're done.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: Look what we've been through.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: Look what, look what we've endured.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: Look what what we have managed to, you know, it's icky and I don't, you know, he probably doesn't listen to this podcast, but I insisted that we go to his final appointment.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: And if I hear more, if I hear more times about his 16-year-old stream, I'm going to scream.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what why is it?
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, isn't it time then to recognize menopause is not a dirty word?
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: If if men can start talking about their ailments um through through this age, um, yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, you know, I I get it.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: Women have spent a lot of time just getting on with things.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we have spent a lot of years raising the family, doing the work, caring for the parents, supporting partners, and managing the households.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we've gotten pretty good at putting our own needs aside, definitely, and just getting on with things.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this plays a role in this conversation.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: No, absolutely, absolutely.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: We need to stop putting everybody before us, and and we really need to put ourselves up at the top of the list.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: Invest some time and energy and give ourselves the space and the allowance to start talking about these things and having a voice for ourselves, right?
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: And when the doctor says, Oh, well, that's just normal.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, okay, well, then maybe I need a different doctor.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: Or, or like I said earlier, maybe I need to consult Dr.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: Chat and you know, see see if I can find something that might work for me.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: No, I agree.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's nothing wrong with adjusting.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: We women have done it, life requires it.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: But menopause can be in our lives for a very long time.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm just wondering why we're so quick to accept the discomfort as normal, instead of asking, what might actually help us manage it?
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: You said it's okay to have a voice.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: No, for sure.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, when you just said, why is it okay that we just manage it?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, one of the things that just popped into my head is, like you said before that, is everything we manage.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: And to try and go out and looking beyond our practitioners and getting information from them and needing to be proactive to help ourselves takes a lot of energy and it takes a lot of time.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: And at the end of the day, sometimes they're just goes back to capacity.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: You have that absolutely right.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because when we're not functioning at our best, we still have to get things done, we still have to do all the things, but the realization that you're right, capacity changes, and we talked about that as another tool that we judge ourselves by, right?
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, menopause adds another layer of absolute you're right, exhaustion, frustration.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think it's time to have a compassionate, thoughtful, and resourceful conversation, regardless of who we're having it with, whether it is professional.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: But I I think that's a really good distinction, Laura.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think I think we should be able to say something is hard without having to prove that it's usually hard.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so Susan, we're gonna move into section three.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: And we're gonna talk about what we actually need to hear from people when we have these conversations.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: Ah, yeah, yeah.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: What would you want to hear them say?
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think what makes the difference is just that someone is genuinely interested rather than for me, rather than just trying to reassure me that, you know, oh, you're normal, you're fine.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe, oh, back to the I'm fine issue.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: That that fits in with this.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it does.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: Our earlier episode of why we just say we're fine, we're dismissive, I'm fine, nothing's wrong, and then I go home and I cry.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, sometimes maybe letting me vent and having someone, you know, prepared to listen without judgment just yeah, may make my day a whole lot better.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that better can look different depending on who you're talking to.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly, Laura.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, with a friend, sometimes it's simply someone that understands why you're frustrated.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: You're right.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: When I'm in that doctor's office, I want to feel that I've been taken seriously, like I have a clearer idea of what's next.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: I like that because sometimes there really isn't a perfect solution.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: However, help is out there.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: We need to reframe in all scenarios that there are solutions and make them available with dignity, compassion, and validity.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's important to also acknowledge not everything can be fixed.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: We get that.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: Not every change can be reversed.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: True.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: But can't we talk about it?
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: Can't we be honest and transparent and really let someone that we think should have a better understanding of this, at least?
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they care, right?
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: This definitely is in like opposition to what we just talked about.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: About in our last episode.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: Our whole conversation on the glow up.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: What do you mean?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me more.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: Last time we talked about accepting ourselves as it's right.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: We we didn't have to allow the professionals to dictate that we weren't good enough and that that we had to work on things.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: But I want to make it clear, I think this is different.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: This is more about having that voice, not being accused of being dramatic.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: That there is a difference.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: There is a difference here in knowing that your body is changing as you get older.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't mean that I have to accept it, though, as part of my life.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: And we can definitely recognize we're getting older without assuming that everything we feel is because of our age.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like another assumption.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: A number isn't a conclusion, right?
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think because now I'm 65, that the list, the criteria that that I should accept, that I should just stay quiet about is not okay with me.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think one of the things that would help the conversation if we got better about telling people what kind of support we're looking for.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I agree.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, because sometimes we want advice and sometimes we just want someone to listen.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: How do we know the difference?
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you you say that, and I'm feeling very convicted.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no! Because well no, because because I have a tendency to to go straight into fixing mode.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: And and I don't know if it was because I was a single mom for a while, or because I'm, you know, in the birth order I'm the oldest, or if, you know, I had a single mom, but as soon as somebody comes to me with a problem, I go into fix it mode.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not what everybody needs.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes sometimes, you know, it's just a pause.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: And and maybe that's where someone like me, you know, if if you were to come to me, I need to like maybe take a pause and either listen for you looking for me to fix it, or listen to see if you just want an empathetic ear.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I I agree that clarification is helpful for me and probably helpful for our listeners.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: The question, you know, maybe we should be asking our fan, do you want my thoughts?
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you just need to talk about it?
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of need to like maybe take a pause and either listen for you looking for me to fix it, or listen to see if you just want an empathetic ear.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I I agree.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: That clarification is is is, I think, helpful for me and probably helpful for our listeners.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: The question, you know, maybe we should be asking our fans, do you want my thoughts?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you just need to talk about it?
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: You've said before in other episodes, start to get curious.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: Ask those curious questions before you go in, assuming and automatically trying to approach it on a level maybe someone is not looking for.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, instead of the it seems common, I just need to deal with it.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe we can just ask ourselves, what can I do to find some level of relief?
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: And as women, I think we're pretty good at jumping into problem-solving mode.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, that's not necessarily a bad thing, but I think I think we could all benefit from just stopping and asking, do you want my thoughts?
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you just need to talk about it?
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: That is a great question.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and if we give ourselves the same courtesy, you know, instead of immediately saying, Well, this seems common, I just need to deal with it.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe we ask ourselves a real practical question.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: What can I do to find some level of relief?
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: What is what is out there?
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it might be talking to a doctor, sometimes it might mean changing our routine.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's okay to want to seek more information or just acknowledge even that, gosh, have I ever had a difficult week?
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because sometimes expressing even that to a good friend or even to a doctor, I think allows for maybe a more compassionate response.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think?
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: No, I agree.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think the the more developed our language can be around that and more specific we can be around that, I think we will definitely get better results if we can express ourselves a little bit better.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, yeah, that's very true.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because again, we're not saying every ordinary change does need a solution.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: What we're saying is just because what you're experiencing in menopause is considered normal doesn't automatically make it insignificant.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: True, that's perfect, Laura.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: You're right.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think it goes well beyond physical health, too.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, our friendships change, we miss certain stages of our life, we may feel uncertain about retirement, family relationship, or what's next.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: All of that may perfectly be common because we may all experience that in our lives.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it may be familiar, but hearing those words doesn't necessarily help us to understand what we're feeling or even how to move forward.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: But that doesn't mean those experiences don't deserve some attention.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes what helps most is knowing someone understands why it matters to us.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's what good conversations do.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: They don't always give us answers, but they leave us feeling heard.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: And perhaps a little less alone.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, which is a you know a pretty good place to start, I hope.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: So, in the closing, after all of this, are we saying we should stop telling people something is normal?
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think yes.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think we just need to be more thoughtful about how we use that word.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: What feels manageable for one person might be really difficult for someone else.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: So we can acknowledge an experience is common without assuming everyone experiences it the same way.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think we can show empathy while expressing we understand, giving the other person a sense of feeling less alone.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, absolutely.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: There's real comfort, you're right, in knowing we're not alone.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because we're all going to experience changes as we get older.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: We sure are.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: Some will welcome, some will adjust to, and some will probably complain about over coffee.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: Or tea.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's my pick.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, I reserve the right to complain about a few of them.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, of course, me too.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: But I hope we never get so used to hearing it's normal that we forget our concerns still matter.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes a little understanding and compassion or the right support can make all the difference.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: Or just listening to another woman when she tells us that she's struggling with something.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so listeners, maybe this week we can think about something we've been brushing aside because we've assumed it was just part of getting older, and start thinking about a braver conversation when we feel like maybe dismissed in the doctor's office.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: And ask ourselves whether we're genuinely comfortable with it or whether we'd like a little more understanding, information, or support.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: And if someone shares something difficult with you, maybe just resist the urge to reassure them that everyone goes through it.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's normal.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: And simply ask, how are you doing with that?
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because sometimes that's the question.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: We really needed someone to ask.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: We'd love to hear your thoughts on this one.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever been told something was normal when you really wanted to be heard?
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: Just come join us in Conversations Beyond Borders with you in our Facebook group.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: The link is in the bottom of our notes, and follow this episode.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: These are exactly the kinds of conversations we'd love to have with you.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: And if you know another woman who's ever walked away from a conversation thinking, well, that wasn't particularly helpful, make sure to send her this episode.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: Conversations Beyond Borders with Susan and Laura on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, iHeartRadio, and YouTube.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and don't forget, Laura, to remind our listeners, we're running for the iHeartRadio's next top host.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: Find us on Facebook.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: Vote for us and give us space to share more midlife insights.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're enjoying season two, follow or subscribe wherever you're listening to so you don't miss our next conversation.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: So until next time.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: Keep showing up, keep asking questions, and keep sharing your stories.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.