Latest / Let's Kick It Off! / Ep 26: Ruben Under Review

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Ep 26: Ruben Under Review · Let's Kick It Off!

0:00
Well, the season has finished and arguably, or I should say
0:03
most definitely, it's been the worst season for Man United.
0:07
And just like we started this podcast with Reuben, we're going
0:09
to wrap this season up with him too, Steve Ash.
0:12
And as give us a full breakdown, the lads discuss how his arrival
0:16
has been received, his performance and what lies ahead.
0:20
Keep it locked on. Let's kick it off and make sure
0:23
you give us a follow and hit that bell icon.
0:25
Enjoy. Let's kick it off.
0:42
I'm Steve and I'm joined by us, who's with me in San Sebastian.
0:47
And Ash, you're with us on the line.
0:50
Ash journey back. OK, yeah, good flight, plenty of
0:54
leg rain. Oh, you've got the extra leg
0:57
rooms. Yeah, so I can't complain, just
1:01
still pretty disappointed with the result.
1:04
Yeah, fair play. I mean, I'm disappointed, but I
1:07
think being in San Sebastian helps, doesn't it?
1:10
As. One of my favourite cities,
1:11
wasn't expecting it to be honest and to be this good.
1:14
I heard a lot about the Bass region being a great place.
1:18
I thought Bilbao was was really nice so I think San Sebastian's
1:21
elevated it to another level. So you think David Moyes was
1:24
lying when he said it was good as he made out?
1:27
I don't always really trust Moyes views but I think in this
1:30
one he's he's bang off. Yeah, I think, I think we'll
1:33
probably do step that upper level from Bilbao is 1, the
1:38
beaches in the city centre. That's amazing, yeah.
1:42
I made a bold shout earlier. My possibly my bold.
1:46
And wrong. Well, my initial claim was.
1:49
About Phil Mitchell or something?
1:51
Can you be wrong if it's an opinion?
1:52
I said I think one of the biggest beaches I've been to La
1:55
Conca Beach. This is because there's two main
1:58
beaches. It just felt massive in terms of
2:00
the site. I know there's bigger
2:02
coastlines, but as an actual beach it felt huge because it's
2:07
very Sri Lanka, right? Just to be clear.
2:09
Yeah, I've got Sri Lankan heritage.
2:11
Yeah. And this is, you know, you've
2:12
not seen a bigger beach, surely? No, but you were talking just
2:15
sides. I'm talking in size and quality
2:17
and shape as well. A.
2:19
Bit like Harry Mcgwighty head, yeah.
2:21
What was for this criteria? So just like my initial comment
2:24
was, that's one of the biggest beaches I've like seen or been
2:28
on. And the only one I can compare
2:29
it to is Bondi Beach. I'm thinking I'm talking the
2:31
distance, you know, at the back of the beach to like as you get
2:34
into the sea. Yeah.
2:36
In that area. From what I saw yesterday, yeah,
2:40
I, I, I see your point. But then you said Bondi Beach is
2:44
your #1 beach. Yeah, I just really loved Bondi
2:47
Beach in Sydney, to be fair. Have you done the Bondi Takugee
2:50
walk? I can't remember, it's been a
2:53
long time. I think, I think you'd remember
2:55
if you did it. I don't know, maybe it might
2:56
have become trendy since Since you went, when did you go?
3:00
I'm thinking about 15 years ago. Yeah, I don't even know if that
3:03
walk existed then. Tell me about the walk.
3:05
So you walk from, there's Bondi Beach, obviously, which everyone
3:08
knows about. And then Coogee Beach is
3:09
probably, I don't know, a couple of kilometres down the coast and
3:13
there's a walk that you do across the coastline, like
3:16
through some rocks. Nice.
3:17
I definitely didn't do that. So maybe that's why I've got
3:19
fond memories. How?
3:20
Long is that walk. Not long.
3:22
I did it with Laura, who'll be listening to this so she can
3:25
back me up. Maybe like an hour.
3:28
Yeah, not not too long, but like a nice walk and it was a nice
3:32
day. So super scenic.
3:34
Yeah, really scenic. So we got dropped off Coogee,
3:37
got a taxi from Sydney, got a taxi to Coogee Beach.
3:41
And then you do the walk into Bondi.
3:43
Then maybe it was having walked that lovely walk for an hour and
3:47
then just sitting on Bondi Beach and just, you know, sitting
3:50
back. So maybe.
3:51
And then the size of the beach as well.
3:53
I think it's bigger than like most other beaches I've been to.
3:56
And then yeah, the the one in San Sebastian, La Conquer.
3:59
If Jay is listening in, where's Jay based these days?
4:02
Melbourne. Melbourne.
4:03
Yeah, he can. I think he used to live in
4:05
Sydney. Is it the best beach that he's
4:07
been to? Yeah.
4:08
And is it better? I've heard the Gold Coast is
4:10
supposed to be good. Yeah.
4:11
Yeah, and Jay has actually been to Sri Lanka, Yeah, so he can do
4:15
a good comparison. Yeah, that's a good show.
4:17
Yeah, Jay, you'll be listening. Let us know what your favourite
4:20
beach is. And other viewers comment below.
4:24
And if you yeah, yeah, that's. Common we'd like to get at a
4:27
table and we can do a ranking. The pantheon of beaches.
4:30
So yeah, I mean, that's helped our mood a little bit today as
4:33
but yeah, I mean, this podcast, I think in the last episode we
4:36
talked about the game as a whole, the day being at the
4:39
final, the immediate reaction. But obviously there's so much
4:43
fallout to go through that we thought we'd have to do a
4:46
separate episode to talk specifically about Reuben
4:49
because he's under a lot of pressure having lost that final.
4:54
Is he Steve? In terms of his job, we'll come
4:56
on to, but just the general wealth.
4:58
And he's been under pressure before the final.
5:00
This came up in the. Pre match conference we had
5:02
pressure, even more pressure post the final.
5:04
This is where Bruno stepped in in the pre match conference and
5:07
a reporter asked him, you know, something along the lines of
5:11
being under big pressure. I think they said like he's not
5:13
under big pressure. And then Bruno stepped in and
5:15
said, isn't he? So, you know, like based on the
5:18
fact that Man United manager is always under pressure.
5:20
Yeah, and then they'd really been say, do you think I'm a
5:23
clown, mate? I know that was the other guy,
5:25
right? Yes.
5:26
And listen, mate, I've got two kids and a wife, all right?
5:29
I'll be all right. Yeah, and it's unfortunate that
5:32
we spent 48 hours doing and impressions pre final thinking
5:35
we were gonna win and unfortunately we didn't.
5:38
But that's what the universe does to you.
5:40
Sometimes it humbles you, sometimes you need a clip around
5:42
the ear. Nice to the story though, when
5:44
we were by Mango man, just walking towards the stadium
5:49
there was a big Europa football, everyone was taking pictures.
5:53
Few Spurs fans in jolly Mead like it was all good banter.
5:58
They asked us to take a picture. We took the picture for them and
6:02
whilst the picture was being taken we will do the.
6:05
I'm not a clown, mate. Impression one of the Spurs fans
6:09
is like, come on lads, that's below the belt.
6:12
So I think that just showed like the nervousness even for the
6:15
Spurs fans on the night. Yep, and they did get the last
6:18
laugh in terms of the game, as we discussed on the last pod.
6:21
So yeah, as we said, this is to talk specifically about Reuben.
6:24
So yeah, he is under massive pressure.
6:27
Having lost that final is clear. Look at the stats in the league,
6:30
you know, worse. The comparisons are just
6:32
terrible. The latest one I saw was
6:34
comparing Paul Jewell's record at Derby.
6:37
I think Reuben's got a worse record than Paul Jewell had at
6:39
Derby in the Premier League. Yeah, points per game.
6:42
But you know, you can compare this to any big club that.
6:44
Can't be right. No, exactly.
6:45
Yeah yeah, I think I think I'm going to have to Fact Check 100%
6:49
Paul Jewell at Derby yeah, but obviously Paul Jewell came in
6:52
during the season, during the season.
6:53
But still though, still we had a like still.
6:55
Yeah, yeah. No, no.
6:57
The one, the one I saw, which I thought was quite funny, is
6:59
Gary. Never.
7:00
Looked the lengthy yeah. Yeah, exactly.
7:02
Like how much says it all, I think it was something like Gary
7:05
Neville had a 36% win percentage.
7:07
It is 29. Well, finally fair.
7:09
To be fair, that doesn't include cups, right.
7:11
So if you look at the Europa run, it's been good.
7:13
I'm. Yeah, fine.
7:14
Yeah, the league. The league form is the.
7:16
League form is pretty horrific and Ruben, to be fair to him,
7:19
says it's about the Premier League, Yeah, that he wants to
7:22
be judged. So yeah, the league form.
7:24
Is if we're judging him on the Premier League.
7:26
It's catastrophic. Surely it's got to be Ruben out
7:29
hasn't. It yeah, that's what I'm saying.
7:30
Like based on the league from just purely on the stats.
7:33
What was my comment on the on the evening or was it when we
7:36
got back to the apartment about this could potentially be the
7:40
worst managerial performance for a mega club?
7:42
Yeah, that's what you said. And I, I don't think you can
7:44
argue that when you look at the stats.
7:46
So yeah, we know that. And the only thing that was
7:50
potentially going to cover it up was winning the Europa League
7:54
and winning the trophy, getting into the Champions League.
7:58
It would have been papering over the cracks.
8:00
But, yeah, that's what would have happened.
8:01
Now that we've lost the final, yeah, the pressure, I think,
8:04
does ramp up massively. So let's talk about what might
8:07
happen. We all think.
8:10
And judging by the reaction of the journos, the journal seems
8:14
to be behind Ruben. I think the fan base, the
8:17
feeling I'm getting is the majority.
8:20
And when I say majority, I'm not talking a large majority, like
8:22
84%, like 10. Hug my gut feel and just
8:26
speaking to fans and seeing the fans reaction online, I feel
8:29
like Reuben's still got the major majority of support.
8:32
But for the people we spoke to, yeah, he's, there's a lot.
8:35
Yeah. That's what I mean, yeah, they
8:36
seem like it. And yeah, I can't speak to the
8:38
online fan base. Yeah.
8:40
Yeah, I'm on the ground and we always say this with match going
8:43
fans, they're always more loyal. I think even with the 10 arc
8:46
situation, match going fans were more for him.
8:49
But yeah, I agree with ours in that most people we spoke to and
8:53
interviewed on the day. Yeah, feels like he's still got
8:56
just about the majority, even if that's 60%, seventy percent,
8:59
80%, we need Andy Mitten to do it on the pole.
9:02
But in terms of any of us, we believe and what is being fed
9:07
pre and post final is Reuben is safe no matter what.
9:10
So let's go through that scenario first as I think you're
9:14
the best man to paint the picture of why Reuben should
9:17
stay. Do you believe that still?
9:20
And why should he stay? I'm not sure I would say that
9:25
you can just isolate Reuben in anything.
9:28
I always say a managerial change is 2 factors.
9:31
One is the TT fire the current guy, but then also who do you
9:35
replace him with? The way I look at it?
9:39
And the other thing I was discussing, I don't know if we
9:41
discussed this on the pod or whether it's funny how the pod
9:45
world and our world, when we're in person, we have a lot of
9:48
conversations. It's hard to know what the
9:50
listeners have heard was saying. It's also a lot depending on
9:53
what your individual assessment of how good this playing squad
9:56
is to how much of the underperformance it is.
9:58
And I think a lot of the fans that we spoke to, you know,
10:02
would say they would agree with me and that there's a lot of
10:06
decent players. But the playing squad is, you
10:08
know, it's fairly average mid table, lacks elite talent, has
10:11
certain holes in it that that that are needed.
10:14
The biggest one being goal scoring capabilities.
10:18
If you think that this squad is kind of, if, if you look at the
10:21
your Bournemouths, your Brightons, your Brentford and
10:24
you go well actually and Buemo and Visa and Brighton have a
10:30
number of really good players, especially in the midfield, like
10:32
the Labour, for example, Van Hacker, you know, superior
10:35
midfielders. So let's say Casimiro.
10:37
And Ugarte, the only thing I'd say that just sorry to interrupt
10:41
you is you mentioned some names that are like, you know, the
10:43
Brentford players and the Brighton players that are doing
10:45
well. But you know, we say our score's
10:48
not that good. But let's look at the players
10:49
that have left United and done well.
10:51
You know, tonight, I believe, you know, Scott Mctominy is
10:54
about to win the league. They've won the league.
10:56
I believe he's actually. Won the league, yeah, we're in a
10:58
Kraken's right to kick while they.
11:00
Right. So you know, Romello, Lukaku,
11:02
Lukaku, Mason Greenwood, Alanga Antony.
11:06
Aaron Wambasaka. Wambasaka, the list goes on.
11:08
Right? You know, so we, so we at the
11:10
time they're playing crap and we say, oh, they're not.
11:13
But any of those were playing crap.
11:14
So they they Anthony, maybe I would say was really.
11:17
But like we say, some Greenwoods had his own issues.
11:20
Lukaku, I think was a cultural well, Ollie kind of was saying
11:24
that. And Lukaku is known for kind of
11:26
having a kind of strong ego, let's put it like that.
11:29
No arsenality. Yeah.
11:31
Scott McNally wasn't playing crap.
11:33
He's played. He played probably one of his
11:35
best seasons at United. But the question is, is his
11:39
ceiling high enough for Manchester United and going to
11:43
Antonio Conte is that manager who somehow gets the best out of
11:46
players? Like I remember somehow the the
11:49
the 1-6 months of Victor Moses, his life where it's a well
11:52
beater was under Conte and was it Alonz, Marcus Alonzo as well?
11:56
Wing backs to Chante just had this ability to profile the
11:59
players really well and get the best out of them for.
12:01
About 12 months. So this is my point, right?
12:03
So like, I accept what you're saying, like we, we need to look
12:05
at Juan Bassaka. Had a good season as well.
12:07
Like he, you know, yeah, it's not that he that these are bad
12:10
players. I've always said they're good
12:11
players and they could do well elsewhere.
12:14
Yeah, but your your point is you need to judge the ability of the
12:17
squad. And my point merely is that
12:19
there's a lot of players that maybe we don't say they play
12:21
crap, but we say, oh, they're not good enough and then they
12:23
leave and then they play at a good level.
12:26
I believe there is like. There's still quite, that's what
12:28
I mean. Like the mid table is strong in
12:30
the so I do think it's a mid table squad.
12:32
The point is Bournemouth's another one and they've got
12:35
Simenio Kirkess hoist, hoist and I think it's going to Real
12:39
Madrid, Kirk is going to Liverpool.
12:41
So they're Liverpool and Real Madrid players who are currently
12:44
at Bournemouth, yeah. But this is where the coach
12:47
comes in to improve these players, even the Brightons, the
12:50
Branford's. A lot of credit has to go to all
12:53
these managers. This is my point.
12:54
So if you took Scott right and you put him into Brighton and he
12:56
was doing really well, and then you might say Scott's, Scott's
12:59
going to Liverpool. So he's good enough for
13:01
Liverpool. But we had Scott.
13:02
Yeah. Do you see my point?
13:03
So there's the element of the coach and how much they get the
13:07
base level out of them ability. And then on top of that, there's
13:12
no, there's no way, for example, Kirk has on his own just on his
13:16
ability, gets his move to Liverpool.
13:18
It's helped by his coach and there's loads of examples of
13:22
that, right? There's lots of good players
13:24
even in like the Bradford squad, as is mentioned, a few names of
13:26
the Brighton squad. A lot of credit, especially in
13:29
the way football's played these days has to go to the coach
13:32
coaching because a lot of these coaches also do system coaching.
13:36
So if anything, that's probably another interesting point alone
13:39
is that when these players come out of the system and go to
13:42
another club, like Chelsea are a good example because they bought
13:46
quite a few players where they were good at like for example
13:49
Brighton, but they struggled initially at Chelsea.
13:52
Kaiser, they like had a really tough season last year.
13:55
He's much better now. But I understand your point and
13:58
I actually tend to agree with you more in that the squad is
14:03
obviously of a certain limitation in terms of ability.
14:07
And then it comes back to the question of like, well, what's
14:10
under performance? Yeah.
14:12
So as you're saying mid table, do you agree with that?
14:15
Yeah, probably. But then it's the scale of that
14:17
mid table because. But let's say they're mid table,
14:20
right? So we both all agree what's mid
14:22
table? Just to clarify it in the, in
14:23
the, in the Crystal Palace, the 8th to 12th region.
14:27
Yeah. And now, now my now, now let's
14:29
say, now let's say we just isolate certain positions,
14:33
right? Let's look at #9 where would you
14:35
consider Rasmus Hoyland in the Premier League 1 to 20 of the
14:39
number Nines in the Premier League 1 to 20?
14:42
Because I think Mattette is better than him.
14:44
Palace. Yeah, I think.
14:46
I think, I think even Danny Welbeck is better.
14:48
Well, we're talking about Welbeck.
14:49
Excellent. With my strikers in the Premier
14:51
League, I'm. Gonna say we're talking about.
14:54
Are. We going down to the like and
14:57
Jamie Barney's got left Bardi, so we're going down to basically
15:02
Southampton. Yeah.
15:03
And this is the issue. It's like there are certain
15:05
positions where the weakness is so stark, but it's it's a little
15:09
bit like, can you is it fair to judge the manager when you've
15:12
got a team position level striker?
15:14
But is it not Ruben's job then to get more out of him because
15:18
he he was I guess I played last season.
15:20
I mean, that's the question. Like what's the best Boylan's
15:23
ever done? And then you'd still say, is it
15:25
better than Matata, Chris Wood Forest, you know, like all the
15:30
other clubs is it? And this is this is this is the
15:33
thing. How much do you think?
15:36
Because The thing is, I actually do believe that there's been an
15:39
underperformance as well because we're not mid table.
15:43
We're below mid table. So Reuben is underperformed by
15:46
4. If we're saying 8 to 12, then by
15:49
10 points late 12 points, OK, it is a decent amount, right?
15:53
And what you want is a coach to over perform by 11:50 points.
15:57
So the differential between a high level manager and what
16:01
Reuben has achieved is more like 20 points.
16:03
Yeah, got a sample question for both of you, right, Because if
16:06
we flip back when we signed Hoyland, there is no way.
16:10
And even to the neutrals, if I said to everyone who has, who's
16:15
got a higher ceiling and who is a better player, Hoyland or
16:19
Chris Wood from Nottingham Forest?
16:22
So what is it that is that has made Hoyland go so low now?
16:27
And why can't he come back? One thing that immediately when
16:31
you mention them two players is like experience.
16:33
That jumps out to me like Hoyland's so young and what is
16:37
experience? But the tools that Hoyland's got
16:40
in, you know, as you've seen a bit of him at Atlanta, this is
16:44
Hoyland. Even at Man United last season.
16:46
Yeah, so the quick he was strong, his physical attributes
16:49
or even his ability was confident on oh, this is the
16:53
thing like if you ran this on chat man or football.
16:55
Oh yeah. I see what you're saying.
16:57
It's like, well, that's the whole point.
16:58
That's the whole reason we signed him, right?
16:59
Because attributes. Attributes, yeah.
17:02
He's got pace, his physical, you know, he was wrestling with
17:05
Gabrielle when he first joined so he can have a physical
17:08
talking. About Football Manager, you know
17:09
how it used to be broken out into mental, the actual
17:13
physical, technical, yeah, it'd be the mental side that where
17:16
he's lacking, I'd say at the moment in terms of.
17:18
No, but his technique also looks off.
17:20
This is. Yeah, true.
17:21
Like, yeah. What?
17:22
What it's. You don't need to go.
17:24
His physicality is probably the last part.
17:26
He was not great, but you could see.
17:29
As for me, there was. Scotland, he looked shocked,
17:31
there's raw tools last season he looked shocked and then some and
17:34
sometimes that's an environment. And like you mentioned Steve, I
17:38
can imagine him going on a loan deal, yeah, finding his
17:41
confidence and doing OK. But as it currently is, you
17:47
know, there clearly is a is a problem there.
17:50
However, I'm willing to admit Ruben is underperforming where
17:53
the squad is and a good manager you want to overperform where
17:56
the squad is, so on that basis he hasn't done a good job this
18:01
season. Oh yeah, and I don't think even
18:03
the people that are back in Reuben still, I don't see how
18:05
anyone can argue he is doing a good job because the the data
18:09
doesn't suggest that in terms of this.
18:11
The eye test definitely doesn't see and a lot.
18:13
The problem is that this is a thing before we're going into
18:15
the final of saying you shouldn't make a decision on the
18:19
manager. Based on one game.
18:21
But if there ever was a game where it is made me a bit
18:25
jittery, it's that game. Certain games mean more than
18:29
other games. How you handle a final is really
18:32
important and and I don't fairly handled it well.
18:36
I wasn't impressed with the in game management.
18:38
I saw your. Disappointment I was in terms
18:40
of, you know, pretty much you had a lot of faith with him
18:43
because it's like this is your opportunity for even to first of
18:46
all, pick the right team. And then if you do go one nil
18:49
down, make the right Subs at the right time.
18:52
And like the fact that it was so late in terms of the Subs and I
18:56
obviously talked about on the last pod league, Shaw should
18:59
have come off at half time for Cop.
19:01
You may need to essentially get a more offensive player on the
19:03
Garnacho, an extra player. Sorry, yeah, Garnacho.
19:06
But I can see, I can see your disappointment and I think
19:09
that's fair, as in you gave him the opportunity for this final
19:12
to showcase the qualities that we saw at Lisbon as an example,
19:16
right? Because he's got the CV that you
19:18
mentioned. So I think it's fair that if
19:20
anyone backed in pre final and then saw how the final played
19:25
out, I can see why you're jittering now because for
19:28
example, if we had lost that final, having hit the crossbar
19:31
twice, hit the pose, goalkeeper was incredible, right?
19:36
And the XG was like, you know, free for United.
19:38
And or he made the right decisions and the players didn't
19:41
execute. Yeah, I just felt there was no
19:43
Plan B or the Plan B of Harry Maguire wasn't executed well.
19:47
And it did disappoint me. So yeah, I have to admit, as I
19:50
say, I don't think we I think you asked the question before.
19:53
You need the manager if if we win or the manager for release.
19:56
I'm like really should know either way.
19:58
Yeah, it shouldn't influence your decision.
20:00
Maybe I'm still too emotional but.
20:02
No, no, no, no, I get and I said pre match, I know what I'm
20:07
doing, win or lose the final. And that was Keith Rubin.
20:10
And obviously secretly I'm hoping we win so I can ride on
20:12
that wave exactly turn Ron and Ash.
20:15
But I said, and I know other people, for example, Jay in
20:19
Melbourne said something along the lines of if you have a
20:22
different name for each of those scenarios, it's it's bad
20:25
management, bad leadership. But I actually made the point
20:28
that I don't think it is I, I don't, I don't think it's a bad
20:32
thing to actually. I believe the quote was You're
20:34
an idiot. Yeah, I think I, I think I've
20:36
watered that down a little bit. I tell you here is that you
20:39
think Bondi is the best speech in the world.
20:41
Yeah, sure. Jay's being some great plays.
20:43
It's going to be so Tiger. Sri Lanka is not like top three.
20:47
So yeah, I, I know, I, I think it was a fair ask to expect them
20:51
to win that final because your league form is so atrocious that
20:55
you need able to get out of a free gaol card by winning the
20:58
trophy. So I didn't, I didn't know what.
21:00
Are you saying mate, I'm a fucking clown?
21:03
Reuben looks like a clown at the moment, but I think, yeah, I
21:06
mean, carry on with your thought process.
21:08
And you were talking about the quality of the squad and
21:11
obviously you've talked about how you've been disappointed
21:13
with Reuben based on the final. And so, yeah, carry on with
21:15
that. Like, does it still lead you to
21:17
the path of sticking with Reuben for now?
21:20
Yeah. Going back to that point that
21:21
the, I think the manager change is 2 decisions.
21:25
One is, you know, a bit about do you want to remove him?
21:28
But you also need to look at what the options are, right?
21:31
What do you replace him with? Because it's, it's fine.
21:34
And when it was Eric Tenhard, I was like, you could replace him
21:37
with basically anyone, you know, part.
21:41
I think, I can't remember what the list was, but it was
21:42
something like I went down to, you know, it was big sound was
21:46
probably the only one below him. He.
21:48
Was 77 I. Can't remember.
21:50
It was like big sound Roy Hodgson, David Joey and Steven
21:54
Gerrard, you know, like that's the level where I think you
21:57
could have seen an improvement when it comes to Amarin.
22:01
I think that it's it's not like that.
22:03
I think that this is a guy with a good track record that is
22:06
saying the right things, that has a squad that because The
22:09
thing is we're we're not, we're not interested in mid table.
22:11
I'm not interested in the manager that can take a mid
22:13
table squad like David Moyes, who's done a really good job at
22:16
Everton. He's done a far better job at
22:19
Everton than Reuben Ameren's done at United.
22:21
So is Vital Pereira at Wolves. So I'm not interested in saving
22:26
us from relegation next season. That might be the wrong view and
22:29
I might be causing us to, you know, drop into the
22:31
Championship. I'm interested in what's the
22:34
manager that can take us back to the top into the Champions
22:36
League places ideally to to win the Premier League, but if not
22:40
win the Premier League, make us competitive.
22:43
And that means a certain level of style of football that can
22:48
work with elite talent. Right.
22:49
So I do, you know, in previous pods I mentioned I can see some
22:52
of those patterns developing. I just wish he would turn the
22:55
screw to be a bit more offensive.
22:56
Yeah. Mazrawi at right wing back, You
22:58
know, I've just said it so many times, I just can't deal with
23:01
it. Yeah.
23:04
And therefore I'm still like, I haven't heard any option for me
23:08
that's better because you know, people, you know, you could you
23:12
could go through the list of names, but I'm just like, yeah,
23:15
but their CVS are not as good as Reuben.
23:17
Aren't they going to have the same problems and the same
23:19
issues that Reuben has with less qualification?
23:22
That's my question. Yeah, that's OK.
23:24
And The thing is, I'm looking at, and we discussed this and
23:28
probably off pod that you've got a World Cup cycle year today.
23:32
Thomas Tooshaw, for example, who was linked with the job, the
23:35
United job last summer. Obviously it's now taken the
23:38
England job World Cup cycle means that in 12 months, there's
23:42
a whole bunch of international managers such as 2 Shields such
23:45
as Ancelotti, such as Narglesman.
23:47
That, that and your, your, your good BBQ, BBQ, butcher TV.
23:52
It's. All about the barbecues.
23:54
This is this is 11 Oliver glasses that would that would be
23:57
available while the games that are currently out there are
23:59
either unreal, like, you know, people, you know, I think Ron
24:03
was saying, you know, Louis Enrique, for example, like I
24:06
can't remember the specific names, but Eddie Howe was
24:09
another one I think was discussed.
24:11
And it's like, yeah, but you're not getting those names even if
24:13
you like them. And I don't particularly break
24:15
Eddie Howe myself. I think he's done a really good
24:17
job at Newcastle, but he also has not won a league or won a
24:21
Champions League, right? So it's not like, wow, Eddie
24:23
Howe, I must bring him in just. Before, just before you rule out
24:27
all about your suggestions. This is this is the question for
24:30
me. No, no, no.
24:31
No, as much as you can say Reverend's done a bad job.
24:34
What's your? Your what's who's who's the
24:36
who's who's the name? No, no, that's one said that
24:39
that approach is good. And you know, we all agree that,
24:42
you know, there's no point saying sack someone if you've
24:44
not got a better alternative. The one thing I want to mention
24:46
quickly before you ask your question or make your point,
24:49
Ash, is for me, this girl also goes back to Ollie.
24:53
So when Ollie was in place, there was I think maybe after
24:58
year 2 or year 3 even. I think it was a second full
25:02
season. When we're beginning with second
25:04
full season. Yeah, there was a big like
25:06
outcry of Ollie's not good enough, PE teacher, all this
25:09
stuff, right? Well, he lost 6 ones to swear.
25:11
Yeah, but he rehabed that season and got in the top 4.
25:13
So. But which is in the top 4,
25:16
right? 2nd.
25:17
Yeah. So yeah.
25:20
You'd love second now, wouldn't you?
25:21
Steve got the tasty over there. Course he would.
25:23
But no, my point was going back to that scenario, Ollie and I
25:27
think I'm sure we we can audit here WhatsApp chat.
25:30
I always said all he's doing a good job.
25:32
I see a better alternative in Poch because I always thought it
25:35
was a good fit. So it's not like you said, you
25:38
can't just look at the manager performance in isolation.
25:40
It's. What's the alternative so.
25:42
Like Van Harlem Marino, Yeah, exactly, The board thought,
25:45
okay, yeah, you've won the FA yeah, but Joseph Marino could do
25:48
better, yeah. So that's the point.
25:49
So yeah, coming on to your alternatives.
25:51
Or did you have a? No, I had, I had a point to the
25:53
Sporting Lisbon CV thing. I mean, that's in the past and
25:56
it's in a different league. So I don't know how you can
26:00
totally extrapolate the fact that just because that happened
26:03
in the past, given the evidence of what's happened already, like
26:07
where where's the pathway to even playing half of the
26:11
football that Ruben plays and get the results?
26:13
I mean, there's, there's a reality next season, first,
26:17
first flight, 5-6 games, he could lose all of them because
26:20
the trajectory has been that. I know you're going to count
26:22
with the fact that the squad should be better.
26:25
But if he fit, if he even loses the first 3 next season, we're
26:30
going to be in real trouble. Because the sentiment to your
26:33
point, Steve will be shot to pieces and everyone will be
26:36
like, he's got to go because it's just going on that same
26:40
trend. And it's, you know, apart from
26:43
like a Nuno situation at Forest where I think they finished like
26:46
1617 last season and they got a chance of finishing Champions
26:50
League. Yes, that could happen.
26:52
I don't dispute that. But it doesn't like even the big
26:56
crow positivity in Reuben's football.
26:59
Like I just don't see like, you know, that pathway.
27:02
So tell me what you would do? No different to what I mentioned
27:05
in March, like if Ierola from Bournemouth is available and
27:09
would like to come to United, I would try to get him as my first
27:14
option. Silence.
27:16
Because yeah, I mean. I've not bought into this plan,
27:19
obviously. You know, we talked about this
27:20
on the part. Yeah.
27:21
And this is my issue. It's like the same like when
27:23
that name's mentioned. I'm thinking silence is golden,
27:27
right? Yeah, but the.
27:28
Silence is the same for me with Reuben.
27:30
Like it. Your plan doesn't sound great
27:33
either. Squad is an even worse fit for
27:35
Iriola than it is for Ameren. I disagree.
27:37
Explain. So first of all he plays with
27:40
the back four, so the players will be more suited to that
27:44
system for a start. And then in terms of your
27:46
concerns about the high press, it's been proven that ERL has
27:51
even said it on interview that when you're playing with the
27:55
Bournemouth, you have to play a style which brings the
27:59
opposition down because most teams that play Bournemouth are
28:02
better than Bournemouth. So he's smart enough to realise
28:06
that he's going to drag them down to that level of playing
28:08
football. But he does rate things like
28:11
control of the ball. It's just not represented
28:14
probably in the numbers like you're going to probably mention
28:16
to me because he's playing with Bournemouth.
28:19
And this is the thing that really perplexes me when you
28:21
talk about the quality of like a Bournemouth squad.
28:24
If I have said to you even a year ago, like tell me how many
28:28
Bournemouth players are going to get into the Manchester United
28:30
team, I'd say you'd probably say maybe none of them.
28:34
And that's where I give Iarola a lot of credit because he's made
28:38
a lot of these players that Bournemouth are playing them now
28:41
better. You can talk about the poisons
28:44
of this world that they could walk in, but.
28:46
No one disputes the fact that Ireola is doing a good job and
28:49
is over performing with the Bournemouth squad.
28:51
Over over performing for two seasons.
28:54
Yeah, no one really. Just I don't dispute that.
28:56
Do you dispute that as? He's doing an excellent job.
28:59
Yeah. So we think he's in a good job.
29:00
It's more about can he handle the pressure of United?
29:03
Has he got the CV to back it up? I don't even think it's, well,
29:07
he's got the chat I agree with, but he's got my bigger thing is
29:10
that. Yeah, but Reuben on the
29:12
trajectory that's. But it's it's been proven that,
29:16
yeah, in the 2530 games, he's found that.
29:18
Mindset has failed with Reuben. You were excited when Reuben
29:21
came in. Yeah, wrongly.
29:23
I was charmed by the charisma more than.
29:25
Yeah, but I said I'm going to make that to be a Reona.
29:28
Bro no, because I've well I've looked at the football and I'm
29:31
like, well, first of all this is a high ceiling football and then
29:34
second of. All, yeah, but Reuben was high
29:36
ceiling. No, it wasn't.
29:38
Actually not. Not for Sporting Lisbon.
29:41
But Ruben didn't have a high. Ceiling when he came into
29:43
United, well, in terms of the football for the Premier League,
29:45
it's been proven that like, he's not what we thought.
29:48
Yeah, but at the time when he came in, nothing's been proven
29:50
because he hasn't had. Yeah, at the time when he came
29:52
in, he had a high ceiling, right?
29:54
He might not even get the time to get his own players.
29:56
The issue I have with this argument of Iriola's
30:00
demonstrated one style of football, but in an interview
30:03
he's talked about some other things he has to you.
30:06
Have to no, but he's he played straight, he played that type of
30:09
football at Rea Vercano where he does, he does play possession
30:12
football. So I haven't watched Rafael,
30:15
can't it? I'm only going on the reason you
30:17
would say Irayola is because of Premier League experience and
30:20
he's done a good job in the Premier League.
30:22
So I can only judge him on what he's done at Bournemouth.
30:24
Yeah. Then I can't then prove to you
30:26
that you know it's going to change, right?
30:28
He still has to take the job and then make these.
30:31
Make these he's saying if he's saying if he's no, hang on.
30:35
If he's saying in an interview when when you play higher
30:39
technical level teams, you've got to bring them down to your
30:42
level. I understand that argument
30:44
because actually that's the type of argument that Yogen club used
30:47
to make, for example, at Dortmund, like when he played
30:49
against Bayern Munich, right? You got to drag them down to
30:52
your level because you can't. Outpass these things,
30:54
Bournemouth, Khan, you know how 80% of the ball and dominates
30:58
game. We agree he's doing a good job
31:00
with the that's not the issue. The issue is the there's this
31:06
theoretical football that he hasn't demonstrated in the
31:09
Premier League. Now you can say, oh, but he's
31:12
got Bournemouth. But the counter argument is I
31:15
don't know company when he had the was it was it Burnley job?
31:19
He was, he got the Bayern Munich job because he was playing.
31:22
He got relegated and people criticising him because he was
31:26
already adapting. You're not adapting you you're a
31:30
lower level team. And The thing is, but he was a
31:33
choice as well. Why did Bayern Munich end up
31:36
getting company and come Bayern Munich have now won the
31:39
Bundesliga after coming third last season because he
31:42
demonstrated the high level football tip for a top team.
31:45
And I and I think here Iola could potentially be that guy.
31:49
I agree with you. I still think that's another
31:53
risky choice and therefore it's not a dead serve.
31:56
No one's a silver bullet, I completely admits that.
31:58
So that's not a problem. But there's no way I can allow
32:02
United to be in this position even at the start of next
32:04
season. And but would you one thing I
32:06
just want you to agree on because it does seem you do
32:09
agree. If he tried to implement
32:11
Bournemouth football with this squad, it would be far.
32:14
Bournemouth are much better suited to the current football
32:17
they're playing. With this Manchester United
32:19
squad, this current squad today, Yeah, Yeah, it does.
32:23
But he would get a transfer window.
32:25
So to to your argument, but to your argument about Reuben
32:29
getting a transfer window, Irella would get the transfer
32:32
window as well to be able to get the positions covered to play
32:36
high press in football. Yeah, but the the issue is
32:40
Bournemouth already have 11 players who can do that, right?
32:44
Yeah, but there's no way you can say that the whole of that
32:48
Manchester United score currently can't do it.
32:51
Certain players should be able to do it if they can, if it's
32:54
the right coach. Just to interject here, like we
32:56
were talking about recruitment here now based on the manager
32:59
and I thought this was something we're steering away from and
33:01
we're not recruiting specifically for managers and
33:04
you know, the likes of Wilcox. I'll tell you what, I'm sure if
33:07
Erola had a list for Manchester United and those players that
33:11
were signed, they would be able to fit with any future.
33:13
Manager, but surely we should be focusing?
33:15
Yes, obviously the manager is important, but surely our
33:18
biggest focus at the moment should be on recruitment and
33:21
improving the squad, irrespective of the manager.
33:24
Obviously you can with any manager that I've got.
33:26
Yeah, but no, no, I'm saying forget the manager.
33:29
But you'd still yeah, the same place.
33:31
So we. Should be.
33:32
Surely we should be focusing on recruitment?
33:34
But you would because, for example, focusing on recruitment
33:37
either way, yeah, the question is if you admit that Irriola
33:41
needs a transfer window, if they might also agree Ruben Ameren or
33:45
any other manager? Yeah, because he deserve it.
33:48
Based on what? What's happened?
33:50
Based on what's happened, maybe not, but.
33:52
Based on your. Initial plan when you brought
33:54
him in, shouldn't you show some patience?
33:56
Yeah, unless you've got there. There is an argument for that.
33:59
I'm not going to deny that obviously because he hasn't had
34:02
a window or a pre season. So we so we agree, right that
34:05
you know, just the two scenarios we've laid out there, both are
34:07
risky, right? Yeah.
34:08
So we agree on that. So given you know what I said
34:12
about the manager pool opening up a lot post World Cup as well,
34:17
what is? So maybe during the season,
34:20
right? Yeah, yeah.
34:21
You're Ayola is still at Bournemouth, isn't he still
34:23
available after these three losses?
34:25
Yeah, but you've lost, you've lost pre season.
34:27
You're you're going to write up another league.
34:29
No. But This is why I go back to the
34:31
focus on recruitment. You've improved the squad
34:33
regardless. Yeah, but then you don't have
34:34
the time to. Yeah, pre season.
34:36
Yeah, but Reuben's not had that, you know?
34:38
No, but yeah. But he's had 30.
34:41
Premier League games, I mean what else do you need to show in
34:44
terms of like how something can come in mid season, do really
34:47
well? So what's the problem?
34:49
How's that right man? You're saying Reuben should have
34:51
come in and done well, so why can't Iriola come in and do
34:54
well? I didn't expect Reuben to finish
34:56
17th. Right.
34:56
I didn't say that Reuben's going to finish, I don't know 6th,
34:59
7th, 8th, right, but that would have been semi respectable.
35:02
He's. He's.
35:03
Performed way below par. Yeah.
35:06
So how should you explain then? You know, you believe that
35:09
Reuben should have been able to come in and improve the team.
35:14
So if we do give Reuben more time and you know we have a bad
35:17
start next season. Just to clarify, everyone
35:20
expected that right to improve the ideas of Eric 10.
35:22
Hog OK well you're in you're in a minority because five out of
35:26
the six of the season ticket group thought there could be an
35:29
improvement because of how bad 10.
35:30
Are but I always said that it was the wrong type of
35:32
appointment and you know. You said that at the time you
35:35
were right. Next time, time will ask you for
35:37
the last three numbers but. I know, but I laid out the
35:40
risks. Yeah, and you were right.
35:42
No. But my point is though, if you
35:44
believe that at the time, surely if we give Ruben more time for
35:48
the reasons we're saying. The thing that this is probably
35:51
where the disagreement is, and This is why Ron agrees with me,
35:54
is that it's fallen out at the bottom so badly.
35:58
We're not prepared to risk next season based on a plan that you
36:02
started in October. That's when we hired him, right?
36:06
You can have a plan. You can't have the patient sex
36:09
execute into next season. Keep him pre season, get the
36:14
players, whoever the players are, right?
36:16
I'm not saying get the players for the manager.
36:18
I'm just getting I'm just saying upgrade the players in the in
36:21
the current squad. But we're not prepared to risk
36:23
it because it's been so bad this season.
36:26
I think that's the fundamental difference.
36:28
You guys will allow him that time, which, and that's where
36:32
that's where the difference is because we can keep going around
36:35
in circles about what I expected him to do during the season.
36:39
I don't think anyone even when he was signed as like, yeah,
36:43
we're going to get top four or top five.
36:46
I did expect him as like a minimum because he was supposed
36:49
to be like, you know, one of the hot prospects that yeah.
36:52
And I remember even talking to Caps about this in another
36:55
WhatsApp group about, yeah, maybe we could get into the
36:58
European positions via the league.
37:00
So I didn't see that as a like a big, you know, like challenge in
37:05
terms of being able to be at least competitive being that
37:08
mix. And we weren't we weren't in the
37:10
mix when, you know, we're below the likes of West Ham and
37:14
Wolves. If you base it on purely when
37:17
Rubenstein, we'd probably bottom three if not contained.
37:21
And it's just like how far low do you want to go before you
37:24
actually, you know, making make another decision.
37:28
I'd rather make the choice now in terms of changing it.
37:31
I know that's not the majority, but I can only comment on the
37:35
football that I watch and how I interpret it in terms of like
37:39
I'd make the change now. So Areola is number 1 and Thomas
37:43
Frank's number 2 is that? Yeah, probably.
37:46
I mean, I can't remember. We've mentioned so many names
37:49
over the last. Yeah, a couple of days, but
37:52
probably the Thomas Frank purely from a stability perspective.
37:56
You did say you could convince Eddie Howe to join, didn't you?
37:58
Yeah, I could, yeah. So I would still maybe try, but
38:02
it's very unlikely. Give him you know if.
38:04
You could get how that would be one or two, probably 1.
38:09
Because of that stability element.
38:12
So basically you know from the stability angle, you said to
38:16
yourself that you do support that.
38:18
If you, if there was to make a change made, you'd go Southgate,
38:21
I'd go how that's, that's all it is.
38:24
That'd be the difference. Yeah.
38:26
So if when when Ron mentioned Thomas Frank, I did get a bit of
38:29
wobble because I do think that he would probably in the
38:35
immediate term guarantee better performance in the short term.
38:40
The thing that I'm not convinced with Thomas Frank is going back
38:43
to that point of theory of oh, but when he intellectually might
38:47
discuss football, he might say that oh, if I had a big bigger
38:50
team, I would do XYZ. The football he plays at
38:53
Bournemouth is quite direct. He doesn't, you mean Brentford,
38:56
Sorry, Brentford is quite direct.
38:58
He doesn't have the build up play that you would expect of a
39:00
top team. It's quite set piece driven.
39:03
You know, interestingly, I looked at the numbers a bit
39:06
earlier. He has actually scored. 65 goals
39:09
in the Premier League this season with Brantford and like
39:12
Irelos, I think about 10 shorts. So that's probably where, you
39:16
know, like you, I think you just got to mention it, the short set
39:20
pieces. Brantford, like Visser and
39:22
Emboemo were really good and before that Ivan Tony, but you
39:26
know, he is a more direct physical style of football that
39:30
again. Probably you're thinking if
39:33
you're going to that I don't think that style of football
39:37
anymore can win the Premier League.
39:38
I might be wrong. I this is the thing though,
39:41
right? And we talked about this with
39:43
20/20/21. At this stage, if I'm bringing
39:48
in Thomas Frank, it's just to stabilise the club, get back
39:52
towards, you know, Europa Champions League and then you'd
39:57
have to assess it again in like 2-3 years time.
40:00
We have to, we have to just face facts in that management cycles
40:04
are much shorter now. I know everyone's going to point
40:06
to the likes of like a Pep or a clock, but the majority of
40:10
managers don't last that long so we just have to make another
40:13
assessment. If you are bringing someone who
40:16
plays more direct football, we aren't going to be competing
40:20
with the likes of Liverpool, Arsenal, Man City.
40:22
We are trying to. Just get to like the Aston
40:25
Villa, Chelsea level. And so my issue is, and we had
40:28
this under, I don't know if you remember, Ralph Rangnick came in
40:31
and Rangnick's whole thing was, no, you should strategize the
40:34
club. What is the style of football
40:36
you want to play? And then set your your
40:39
recruitment and your manager around that and keep building
40:42
towards that. And I just think that we've, we
40:45
all kind of agree that Manchester United need to buy
40:48
players. So we should be buying players
40:51
that are build towards a particular style of play that we
40:54
believe is going to the poll. Was it 28 vision, 28?
40:59
Is it vision? Project 28.
41:00
Project 28 might might be project. 20XI don't know now.
41:05
20X yeah, it's just mission 21 or mission, yeah, the mission
41:09
project, whatever kind of cycle track 21 that that, that, that
41:14
that is a three-year process that you should decide, OK, this
41:18
is the the style of football we're going to play and this is
41:21
therefore the direction we're going to recruit towards.
41:24
Of interest, what style of football do you think they have
41:26
identified as the style of football to play?
41:29
So I think that the way you put it, I think it was you that I
41:32
was it you or you Ash saying, you know, Omar's copied.
41:36
Oh yeah, that's that's my line. The Manchester City, the
41:38
homework. So Omar brother used to work at
41:41
Manchester City under Burger Stein.
41:44
And who's the other surreal? And the rumour was that
41:47
obviously Guardiola is is season by season.
41:50
And the rumour is that that when he was going to leave that the
41:53
Amarin was their their target. And they've brought in the
41:56
sporting director, Hugo Viana, who's like Amarin estimate,
41:59
apparently. And then obviously the
42:01
expectation was that then they would get Ameren.
42:04
So as you put it, Omar's copied the homework and gone.
42:07
Well, yeah. And what's that style of
42:10
players? Or let's let's say the general
42:13
philosophy is around having quite a strong positional play
42:16
system as opposed to, you know, a more fluid kind of, you know,
42:21
the on the opposite side is Carlo Angelotti, who's very
42:23
player driven, plays a, you know, as Bellingham put it in
42:27
his interview, gives the players lots of freedom.
42:29
With Ameren, it's closer to what we've seen with Guardiola, quite
42:32
strong positional play and structure.
42:35
Yes, you a lot of people make a big deal of the the system and
42:39
would say Guardian plays at 433 and I'm amazing, it's a 343.
42:44
But if you watch the way City play or even most clubs are,
42:48
Tetra club, all top managers, you end up with a front 5 of
42:51
some sort. So when Liverpool's great front
42:54
5 was Robertson, Manet, Firmino, Sala, Trent, the three
42:59
midfielders behind it in the two centre backs, everyone kind of
43:02
ends up in this either a 235 shape or a 325 shape, right.
43:06
How you get there in which players occupy these these
43:09
spaces can be different. So in, you know, with the way
43:12
Guardiola does it, he's had sometimes a full back invert
43:16
into midfield. So most recently with Rico
43:19
Lewis. Before that he had John Stones
43:21
come from centre back and come into midfield and that creates
43:24
the back three. You see that with our tester as
43:26
well. Yeah, sometimes it's the full
43:29
Miles Lewis. Kelly comes into midfield or be
43:31
him before him, Zinchenko. There's different ways of an
43:34
event ending up in the same type of shape, but the idea between
43:38
these managers is the players have quite rigid positional kind
43:42
of discipline and ideas. And then they you work the ball
43:45
around, create overloads in areas to manipulate the ball to
43:49
the final third before delivering.
43:51
Ideally what we're trying to to get to is to the to the byline
43:55
and cut it back to score lots of goals.
43:57
This is like the the Manchester City mod.
43:59
So my question there is. Basically, position, position
44:02
play. You need good technical
44:04
football. This right, You need people with
44:05
a lot of football IQ, which is why I've always said, you know,
44:09
Guardiola probably can only work at top clubs where he's backed
44:12
and given the level of football, and while the Mourinho could
44:16
work at a lower level because the style of football is more
44:19
direct. You know, can can work with
44:21
more, let's say physical players.
44:23
I just want to come on the top of recruitment and you know, the
44:27
strategy. So obviously the model outside
44:30
of a Manchester City, because we know there are problems with
44:33
PSR. So Liverpool is an architect
44:35
model, right, In terms of what clubs would be looking to copy,
44:38
especially big clubs. So Liverpool have obviously
44:42
recruited based on a style, you know, from a data perspective,
44:46
they're one of the most advanced.
44:48
But what's interesting was obviously, you know, Jurgen
44:52
Klopp developed the squad. You know, they finished third
44:56
last season. They they ran out of steam
44:58
probably by about April, but they were in in the mix to win
45:00
the league up until about April time last season.
45:03
So obviously then they go and signed slot because Klopp's
45:07
retired or like left. And this is this is the
45:10
difference with Arnie Slot. Arnie Slot was seen as a more
45:13
possession based manager. So he wants high control versus
45:17
the the chaos that Clock had. And what did he do?
45:20
He made concessions with his style of play.
45:23
So he made adaptations to the playing squad.
45:27
And going back to Ruben Ameren, this is not a stick to beating
45:30
with. This is literally what he said.
45:33
I'm not going to change anything.
45:35
I think it is a stick to beating with because it's something I'm
45:38
frustrated with as well. I think I would have liked to
45:40
see a bit more adaptation, but he seems a bit Guardiola rest.
45:45
Yeah, but it's like it's it's plan A and if plan A doesn't
45:49
work, it's plan A. And a great.
45:51
We, we had the Europa League final on Wednesday.
45:53
We had this FA Cup final. We we saw a very similar game
45:57
where one team took the lead early, another team which is the
46:00
treble winners previously. And you know, Holland and Mamu
46:04
should Foden and they have all these great players.
46:07
They couldn't break down ballast and Guardiola didn't bring and
46:11
put Harry McGuire in to start lumping the ball up.
46:13
So you can almost say Amarim is adapts more than Guardiola
46:16
because how often do you see Guardiola doing putting the
46:19
centre back up, up top? Guardiola doesn't have a Plan B,
46:22
but I you know, this is the thing he does all these tweaks
46:25
that you literally just mentioned, the inverted
46:27
fullback, the inverted centre back 4 centre backs two seasons
46:32
ago when they won the trouble. Yeah, but cross 9, you know
46:35
when? The season before.
46:37
Harley based around the same principle.
46:39
Yeah, of course. And he will always be that type
46:41
of manager. And you're right, Ruben might be
46:43
the same. But this is what we asked for as
46:45
a fan base and as a club because we had to go at 10 Hog through
46:48
abandoning his philosophy, and then we said we would.
46:51
We need a guy well. Ironically though, if sorry Van
46:54
Hall 10 hog. If he had stuck to his
46:57
principles, he would have been fired in Season 1.
47:00
Yeah, he had to get that exactly because he lost.
47:02
It was the last, the first T that he lost the first three,
47:05
first two. He certainly lost the first two.
47:08
We had a crunch game against Liverpool and he totally changed
47:12
the game plan. He got David to hire to kick
47:14
long, we counter, we counter, pressed on the second balls and
47:19
for a time it worked. So if he didn't compromise, he
47:22
would have been fired in season 1.
47:24
But then that that was used as a stick to beat him with by the
47:26
end of it that he compromised and you know, it ended up with
47:30
probably up there with the worst football I've seen by the end of
47:33
it in. Season 2, yes, like just
47:35
basketball because what happened was that he compromised in
47:39
Season 1. It got us to position of being
47:42
able to get our first trophy in six years and finish third in
47:45
the table, which at that time was a significant upgrade
47:49
compared to the couple years that we had previous.
47:52
And then the mistake 10 hard made.
47:54
Or, like he will argue, the recruitment side wasn't as
47:57
strong as possible in terms of the likes of a Harry Kane and a
48:00
depth and right. So can you see a big difference
48:03
between 10 hards football in year 2 versus Reubens current
48:08
football? Yeah, I can see a big
48:09
difference, but the but the problem is like even though 10
48:14
sorry, Reubens football is probably got more control as in
48:18
we don't concede as many shots and goal.
48:21
There's a bit more stability at the back because we have an
48:24
extra body. But we are.
48:26
We are where we are we. Are and that's.
48:28
And the eyes can't deny you as well because it's not just the
48:31
results. If it was like we're missing
48:33
chances galore and we deserve to win the games, I could see it
48:37
like the, you know, the. The the reason I answer that
48:40
question is because you just laid out the the things I am
48:44
seeing. You know when you compare 10
48:46
hogs year 2 to Reuben now as. I want to turn out.
48:50
No, but as much as Reuben is not effective now and yes, obviously
48:53
the result results terrible. There's a clear distinction
48:56
between what we're seeing currently.
48:58
Yeah. And that's and that's kind of
49:01
what I'm buying into. The pro Reuben argument.
49:04
The biggest problem we had under 10 hog was we're just an open
49:08
shot until our goal, right? Even in this final we conceded
49:12
three shots. We can't score goals.
49:15
Spurs have three creative players, aren't they?
49:18
Yeah, but even in the previous games that we've lost, right, we
49:22
haven't we haven't been as open and as we were under 10 odd,
49:26
like even 10 odd at the height of 10 hog in his first season.
49:29
Didn't we lose 7-1 to Liverpool or something?
49:31
I mean, you cannot lose 7-1 to Liverpool and I don't see a
49:35
Reuben Amarin team losing 7 one to Liverpool.
49:38
So he's closed the door Now the the problem we have is we just
49:42
do not score goals. And now the question is, if you
49:45
look at that, that forward line, do you see many goals in it with
49:48
any manager? And I just don't because for me,
49:52
the best goal scorer in the last few seasons, is it Aston Villa.
49:57
And if you took Marcus Rashford out of 10 hogs per season, yeah,
50:00
he ain't finishing. But.
50:01
Reuben took Rashford out. Now I was about to say it.
50:03
Now the question now becomes, and this is where it's it's
50:06
controversial. Do are you the in the Brashford
50:11
Inn or the Brashford out camp? And if you're in the Rashford
50:13
Inn camp, that's actually a decent reason.
50:16
I think. I don't know if it was you or
50:17
Ron or maybe even Ash was saying it was me with the manager
50:21
change. The manager change also means.
50:24
Well, this is when, when you're asleep on match day night, I
50:27
think it was like 4:00 AM and me, Ron and Ash were talking
50:31
about, you know, if you got rid of Ruben, you'd get Rashford
50:33
back in. Yeah.
50:34
So, and my, my view on that is I think we've got an opportunity
50:38
to move on from him because I, I felt even in the previous summer
50:42
that, you know, that was something better for both
50:43
parties, that that's going backwards, that I think that we
50:48
should back the manager if we can.
50:50
And I believe there will be an opportunity to make the sale.
50:55
But with him gone now go and replace that with the goals that
50:59
this team needs that again, if you're 10 hogs didn't have
51:02
Rashford, there's no way 10 Hog, as you know, he adapted.
51:08
But after those first two wins, we also signed Casamiro, who was
51:12
fantastic for six months. We had a fit from firing Veran,
51:16
who's absolutely a world class centre back and we had a fit and
51:19
firing Marcus Rashford and individuals do make a
51:22
difference. And if your spine is Veran,
51:24
Casimiro, Rashford at top form, you're fine.
51:28
Rand's gone. Casimiros, you know, as Jamie
51:32
Carriger says, you know, the football's left G and Rashford's
51:35
Aston Villa, and we haven't replaced those players.
51:38
And I do believe that you need to give the manager some of the
51:43
tools to have the opportunity to say, right, you've shut the back
51:47
door now can you access the front door?
51:50
And if you can't access the front door, then, OK, maybe
51:53
you're a problem. But you do have the track record
51:56
at Lisbon of scoring goals. Gawkers has been linked.
52:01
If you can give him his man, you know, to play upfront and it's
52:04
still not working for him. Would Gawkers work for another
52:07
manager? I think so.
52:08
You just sign the players that you think would make sense to
52:11
Manchester United, that even if it doesn't work with Amrim, I do
52:17
believe there will be options available.
52:20
I'm just not that excited personally by any of the names.
52:24
And as much as I like Thomas Frank and This is why I'm a
52:27
little bit wobbly because I think he's a really good guy, a
52:29
really good manager. Don't worry, he's not listening
52:32
to the part. No, he's done really well at
52:33
Brentford, but I'm not sure that that that I've seen evidence
52:37
that he can take a top club to the our aim is The thing is,
52:41
maybe our ambitions are wrong, maybe we're arrogant, makes
52:43
well. Why are we thinking of winning
52:44
the? Premier, I was just, I was.
52:46
Thinking what's wrong? You're 16/16/17.
52:48
Yeah. Why are you thinking of winning
52:50
the premier? Yeah, it's you should be happy
52:51
with mid table. It's delusional.
52:53
Yeah, but this is Man United, not Man United.
52:56
This is Man United. I mean, this is the problem is
52:58
that this is Man United. That is my aim.
53:01
That is the aim of the fan base. That is also where the, we were,
53:06
you know, we've spent a lot of time amongst the fans and we
53:09
were discussing how much money that our fountains put into,
53:13
into the club through season tickets, through travel, through
53:18
merchandise. I saw so many of the 91
53:21
merchandising range, you know, Adidas are paying us 80 million
53:25
for a reason, would have been 90 million if we won that game.
53:28
And, and when you have that, when you have that fame fan base
53:31
behind you, when you have those revenues coming and you should
53:33
have those expectations. And therefore I do want to set
53:36
the expectation and the bar high.
53:38
And I am looking for the, the, the manager that could
53:40
potentially take us to the top. And even if it's not Amarin, I
53:45
do believe that if you get the recruitment right, that you
53:48
build towards that, that I'm hoping and I do believe that
53:53
Amarin will leave us in a better place than he picked us up from.
53:57
That's that's what. And and I think I saw a tweet
54:01
and I don't know if it's right, but in his first season at
54:03
Lisbon, he moved out a double digit number of players.
54:06
Yeah, I think it was 13. I mean that is shows you right
54:10
that oh, he's someone and he said in the present like we need
54:13
to be brave Yeah, and I think that's what he's talking about a
54:16
big and and I think the sentiment in the back in the fan
54:19
base is yes, we do need a bigger but but.
54:23
It's a very different playground because getting ridden players
54:27
from sport in Lisbon versus players from Manchester United
54:30
is totally different and it. Might take time, it might even
54:33
just take running their contracts.
54:35
Down Well, Steve mentioned this point like if you're really
54:37
going to be brave, you pay them out and you know your argument
54:41
is fair. It's like if you are going to
54:42
pay them out then you are going to impact the transfer budget
54:46
and that's the. Problem that we've got and and
54:48
so what's the option to Man United?
54:50
It's either a massive large cash injection.
54:53
Chassim, if you're listening, let us know, you know, whether
54:56
whether you are actually real. All Middle East nations are
54:58
available to bid. Absolutely.
55:00
You know, human rights records will be ignored at this point.
55:04
But beside the money or it's time.
55:08
And I think that we do need to just maybe be patient.
55:12
I bought the T-shirt and, you know, trust the process because
55:15
I do believe whatever process we go behind, we do need to trust
55:19
the process. We've got a really good crop of
55:21
the AD Academy players. We're signing younger players.
55:25
So for example, Cheeto OB aid in heaven.
55:29
So Jason, my good friend Jason Wilcox, Technical Director.
55:34
Jason. Is he full of good ideas, right?
55:37
Yeah, we've, yeah, we obviously have the flexion kids, for
55:40
example. There's a number of, you know,
55:42
good young players that at the end of the day, they're going to
55:47
take time. You can't be 18 and be competing
55:49
in the Premier League. Hopefully few of those can, you
55:53
know, step up and, and, and and and come.
55:55
But we, we need that patience with with, with those.
55:59
And then we know we need to sign a #9 whoever the manager is, it
56:03
doesn't matter who your manager is.
56:05
Iriola, Thomas, Frank Ruben Amarim, Gareth Southgate like
56:11
needs a goal scorer. To do well if you.
56:14
Look at the previous records I really like, Ashley says, yeah,
56:19
but you like this XYZ. And it's like, yeah, like Joshua
56:21
Zerks, he's he looks like a bit of a fluid football.
56:24
He's not a goal scorer. No one, no one would say he's a
56:27
goal. Scorer.
56:27
Yeah, but this isn't a charity, you know, like these guys are
56:31
going to perform. Otherwise you go, I think zerks
56:33
he's been no, it's not that. I think zerks he's been playing
56:35
well, but he's he's more the guy to link the play right.
56:38
So if everyone's good. And you need more players on top
56:42
who, who are more players, you know, But they, you need world
56:45
class players, right? You're saying everyone's good,
56:48
but good can only get you so far.
56:50
You need 2. Things.
56:51
Then you need world. Class players and it's two
56:53
things you need. 1 is like elite level players but you also need
56:57
profiles, so even if you can't get elite level striker, at
57:00
least get me the Crystal Palace forward.
57:03
Where would you categorise a Bruno Fernandez and a Rashford?
57:06
Are they elite for you? Yeah, OK fine.
57:09
Yeah they're not world class. I don't know, they're not like.
57:11
Then it depends between how you define world class.
57:14
Then, Well, sell us the benchmark in the Premier League.
57:17
Yeah, so they're the level below that.
57:19
But you need more of those players, right?
57:21
And for me, we only have one, which is Bruno.
57:23
Yeah, there's no one else at Bruno's level in our team.
57:26
You need to. And I think Rashford, when is
57:29
that his best? Is that that international
57:31
level, like really good player. But I think we should move on
57:34
because he, you know, he wasn't performing.
57:36
You need that. But what you also need is just
57:38
profiles. So I think we're linked with
57:40
Matthias Cuny. I don't know where the latest in
57:42
that is or whether that's going to happen or not with this, with
57:45
this loss, I don't know what. The plan so just quickly on the
57:48
fact that if you get Cunya irrelevant of the manager if we
57:51
do change the manager part way through next season and that
57:55
managers are very likely to go back to a back 4 system and
57:58
then. 33 or 231, where does a Kenya fit into that when you've
58:03
got a Bruno Fernandez that will occupy the number 10 role?
58:07
Well, it's Bruno going to be here when we have project 28 is
58:10
one question is rumours around the Saudi situation in a bit of
58:14
potentially 100 million talking. He's played in the central
58:17
midfield role and Cooney's also played in the number 9 role.
58:21
Plus, you need, you know, you need more than one.
58:25
We've always said, right, we can't just have one guy that's
58:28
doing that. And the one thing I'd say about
58:30
Cunha is going back to that thing of elite, and he might not
58:35
be world class or whatever that tag is.
58:37
He's not Mohammed Salah, but he's probably Wolf's best player
58:40
this season. You would say no, he would be an
58:43
upgrade into the squad. But I'm just, yeah, I just
58:46
thought about it, the Man United way to kind of look around the
58:49
Premier League and go who are the best players in in other
58:52
clubs. I like as a Palace for example,
58:56
you know, talking about the mid table and mid table being
58:58
strong. You know, Mark Gahey I think is
59:00
a really good centre back. I really like Adam Watson, even
59:03
though Thomas Tuchel doesn't like Adam Watson hasn't picked
59:05
him in the squad. He did pick Ivan.
59:08
Tony, though, pick Tony and Henderson, and which is strange,
59:12
I really like Essay and I really like Mateta.
59:14
It's like you look through that spine, you go, OK, would they
59:17
get in Man United's team? Probably.
59:19
Well, this is. Probably what's what the
59:21
strength of the Premier League is.
59:22
Like I said, the poor Bournemouth, you know, Hoyson is
59:26
going to Real Madrid, Kirk as he's going to Liverpool,
59:29
Simenio, Atara being LinkedIn with Simenio I think linked with
59:33
us as a potential option. So there's a lot of good players
59:36
around the league and we need we need to back the manager, invest
59:42
in some of those players. Well, we need irrespective of
59:45
the manager. Of the manager.
59:46
We need the discussion about, yeah, what, what recruitment
59:49
strategy we're going for this summer, What are the names,
59:52
what, what's the budget. So that's a whole pod in itself
59:55
that we'll do where we'll we'll go through the positions, the
59:59
options, what we would do. Because yeah, that's almost
1:00:03
obviously the manager comes into it, but you need to, we've said
1:00:06
on this pod, right, you need to sort the recruit now anyway.
1:00:09
So we'll go through that. The manager debate is going to
1:00:11
roll on, I think. And then we've done this many
1:00:15
times over the last decade and called emergency board meetings.
1:00:19
So, you know, we've not heard. A big emergency in Southgate.
1:00:23
I think you CPR might be required.
1:00:25
For some of the board numbers, yeah, yeah, exactly.
1:00:27
I think we're going to need to go and find absent J.
1:00:29
We might have to get the private jets sorted because, yeah, we
1:00:33
need to hear from them and we need to do the Peter Pan
1:00:35
special, I think. ABS ABS, I think was it Kerry
1:00:38
McKenna? His choice?
1:00:39
We need to. The last choice I remember from
1:00:41
him was Steven Gerrard. Like, like genuinely, he
1:00:44
suggested him when he was at Rangers.
1:00:46
So yeah, I think we require some further input from our.
1:00:50
Available I think. So yeah, I think we'll get those
1:00:53
guys on, see what they think, see if they've got any other
1:00:55
names, and then yeah, as we always do.
1:00:58
We'll go with the consensus on what this board decides, but the
1:01:02
club will probably go the Reuben Amaran way.
1:01:05
We expect one thing, I'd say that the Amaran song is is
1:01:08
excellent, yes. So I'd like to hear it again a
1:01:11
bit more next season. It was interesting though,
1:01:13
because that song started off very strongly in the first like
1:01:17
20 minutes and then it died to death and it's not at all sung
1:01:20
in the second-half, which was different.
1:01:22
To the Premier League games, where it was continuously sung
1:01:25
throughout the. Throughout the game, I think you
1:01:27
made this point though, and that was to do with just the shock of
1:01:30
like, you know, the game being a bit crap and, you know.
1:01:33
I think it was definitely game state.
1:01:35
I I you know, we're one nil down, but we're not really
1:01:38
showing enough in the game to get back in.
1:01:41
But maybe maybe it was the first kind of like I'm I'm really
1:01:45
starting to doubt it as to what, as mentioned, like the jitters
1:01:48
and like the warrior afterwards. Now it's like the reality is
1:01:52
stark now because it's happened. Like before, we could kind of
1:01:57
hide behind the fact that we might not least, I suppose, but
1:02:01
now we have. So now the reality's there.
1:02:03
So Andy Minton, if you're listening, we could do with
1:02:06
another poll because we'd be really interested to see.
1:02:09
The 84% what the? True feeling of the fanbase is
1:02:14
the other big talking point for me is the ownership.
1:02:17
I think there is more discussion and more things to happen there.
1:02:22
So again, it's probably another separate pod.
1:02:24
So yeah, I mean, yeah, no matter what we've said about the team,
1:02:27
highly recommend northern Spain, the best country, Bilbao, San
1:02:31
Sebastian. It's been beautiful, right?
1:02:34
Apart from the football, yeah. Apart from the football, it's
1:02:38
I'm definitely coming back. I think it's, it's well worth a
1:02:42
visit in when I'm in a better mood.
1:02:45
Yeah, maybe once we've, you know, won, won, won the Premier
1:02:49
League next season, I'll, I'll return next summer.
1:02:54
And we said we we will then allow ourselves to get AT bone
1:02:57
steak and some lobster. Yeah, we've already been
1:03:00
planning the post. Is it Premier League or
1:03:03
Champions League? Project 21 or Yeah, Champions
1:03:06
League, Yeah, meal. It's going to be pretty epic
1:03:09
when it happens. Yeah, I mean, we treated
1:03:11
ourselves tonight, didn't we? If we get relegated, where are
1:03:13
we going? Oh yes, that's.
1:03:15
Also a McDonald's nearby? Yeah, or a Dixie.
1:03:17
Chicken back home. Dixie Chicken might be the
1:03:20
levels. Yeah.
1:03:21
But yeah, on that bombshell. Thanks for tuning in and we'll
1:03:25
catch you on the next episode.