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MC Fireside Chats - October 21st, 2026 · MC Fireside Chats, an Outdoor Hospitality Podcast

• 0:46
  Brian Searl: Welcome everybody to another episode of MC Fireside Chats.
• 0:48
  Brian Searl: My name's Brian Searl with Insider Perks.
• 0:50
  Brian Searl: Excited to be here with everybody for another episode.
• 0:53
  Brian Searl: I don't know if you guys can see me or not.
• 0:54
  Brian Searl: It says, "Oops, connection lost.
• 0:55
  Brian Searl: Reconnecting," on my side, but you guys are all loading for me fine.
• 0:59
  Brian Searl: I don't know what's happening.
• 1:00
  Brian Searl: We'll see if the rest of the world can see us.
• 1:02
  Brian Searl: But that's popped up over my face right now on my screen.
• 1:05
  Brian Searl: But excited to be here for another episode.
• 1:06
  Brian Searl: We got a couple of our recurring guests here.
• 1:08
  Brian Searl: We got Mr.
• 1:09
  Brian Searl: Jeff Hoffman.
• 1:09
  Brian Searl: We got one recurring guest.
• 1:10
  Brian Searl: Casey Cochran's hiding back there somewhere.
• 1:13
  Brian Searl: I think he's moving locations.
• 1:14
  Brian Searl: He was dealing with some internet issues, so he might join us here in, in a second.
• 1:18
  Brian Searl: We're with Jeff Hoffman, one of our recurring guests, and then we got two special guests here.
• 1:21
  Brian Searl: So let's just briefly go around the room and set the stage for what we have for a good discussion today.
• 1:26
  Brian Searl: Jeff, you wanna lead us off?
• 1:30
  Jeff Hoffman: Hi.
• 1:31
  Jeff Hoffman: I'm Jeff Hoffman, and I am one of the founders of Camp Strategy, and I always enjoy joining this podcast, talking with Brian and other people in the industry, try to keep current on what's happening, and very excited to
• 1:46
  Jeff Hoffman: be here today.
• 1:47
  Jeff Hoffman: Thank you, Brian.
• 1:49
  Brian Searl: Awesome.
• 1:49
  Brian Searl: I'm glad you can hear me, Jeff, but literally there's a giant yellow bar across my face that says, "Oops, connection lost.
• 1:54
  Brian Searl: Reconnecting," so- All right I'm glad everybody can hear me.
• 1:57
  Jeff Hoffman: Do you want me to take that, do you want me to take that down, or,
• 2:00
  Brian Searl: I don't if it-
• 2:00
  Jeff Hoffman: I put it up there
• 2:01
  Brian Searl: I think if it loses the connection on me, it's probably gonna be a better show for everybody who's watching, so I'm just kinda hopeful it's actually working.
• 2:08
  Jeff Hoffman: No, I can see you.
• 2:09
  Brian Searl: But, All right.
• 2:10
  Brian Searl: Who's next?
• 2:11
  Brian Searl: Miriam, would, Miriam, would you like to introduce yourself?
• 2:14
  Marlon Lynn: Yeah, we can see you
• 2:18
  Brian Searl: Marlon, sorry, I apologize.
• 2:19
  Brian Searl: Just tiny
• 2:20
  Marlon Lynn: Marlon.
• 2:21
  Marlon Lynn: I've been an architect for over twen-
• 2:28
  Brian Searl: Yeah, you're breaking up a little bit, Marlon
• 2:29
  Jeff Hoffman: Now, he's getting spoty
• 2:33
  Brian Searl: Go ahead, John.
• 2:34
  Brian Searl: Let's just start with you while we wait on Marlon.
• 2:37
  Marlon Lynn: Give me give me two, two minutes.
• 2:40
  Brian Searl: No problem.
• 2:40
  Jeff Hoffman: You go.
• 2:52
  John Donner: I mostly had technology master
• 2:59
  Brian Searl: Awesome.
• 3:01
  John Donner: Thanks for having me, Brian
• 3:02
  Brian Searl: appreciate you.
• 3:03
  Brian Searl: We'll talk, we'll dive deep into some little, I'm sure we got questions about Campground Software and where it's going and what you guys think and your perspective and all that kind of stuff that we can dive into.
• 3:12
  Brian Searl: Marlon, are you back a little bit?
• 3:14
  Brian Searl: You seem, your video seems to be fine.
• 3:16
  Brian Searl: All right, cool.
• 3:17
  Brian Searl: Marlon, please introduce yourself.
• 3:19
  Marlon Lynn: I believe so.
• 3:22
  Marlon Lynn: Yeah I- architecture for over 20 years with just about any kind of project from small projects of office spaces to 100,000 square foot nursing homes and assisted living facilities, and we've designed dozens of restaurants and bars and just
• 3:42
  Marlon Lynn: about anything you can imagine.
• 3:43
  Marlon Lynn: But four years ago, we actually started developing a product for building shells.
• 3:50
  Marlon Lynn: So we actually have a company called Flora Lake, and we build a, a full building shell, a floor, a wall, and a roof, deliver it, goes up in a couple days.
• 4:02
  Marlon Lynn: Very energy efficient, very very green, I guess is the best way to say it.
• 4:08
  Brian Searl: Okay.
• 4:08
  Brian Searl: Thanks for being here.
• 4:08
  Brian Searl: I'm excited to see what you guys have developed.
• 4:10
  Brian Searl: We'll talk to you in a few seconds here.
• 4:12
  Brian Searl: Jeff, like you're my only recurring guest.
• 4:14
  Brian Searl: We had Casey, he like came back and then he left, and he came back and he left, and I don't know what he's doing.
• 4:18
  Brian Searl: So hopefully we'll be, we'll get Casey back here.
• 4:21
  Brian Searl: But in the meantime, Jeff typically we start this off to our multiple recurring guests.
• 4:25
  Brian Searl: Apparently, we're missing a lot of them.
• 4:26
  Brian Searl: I think Mike Harrison must be at the California show, and a few other people are traveling.
• 4:30
  Brian Searl: But Jeff, what so normally how we start this, show is, has there anything that's come across your desk in the last month that we've been together, since we've been together the people on this recurring guest show or this
• 4:40
  Brian Searl: week's show that you think we should be talking about?
• 4:43
  Jeff Hoffman: Actually, one of, one of the things that I'm involved with is OHI, and we have our conference coming up, which is OHCE.
• 4:54
  Jeff Hoffman: That's November 7th through the 12th.
• 4:58
  Jeff Hoffman: Just got off of meeting about that.
• 5:01
  Jeff Hoffman: If you've never gone, it actually is a good show to attend.
• 5:05
  Jeff Hoffman: There's educational, but there's a ton of vendors, and that way you can meet one-on-one with vendors, get to know their products.
• 5:13
  Jeff Hoffman: But generally, I always find it's best just with Brian, if you meet the vendor face-to-face and you can chat with them, it makes getting your product and your service so much better than just doing it over the internet
• 5:30
  Jeff Hoffman: without any context of who's running the company.
• 5:34
  Jeff Hoffman: So that's the thing that's on my my calendar starts with- Well, going to Canada with Brian.
• 5:42
  Jeff Hoffman: I'm gonna attend the Canadian show and try to figure out why we don't get any Canadians anymore.
• 5:50
  Brian Searl: That's pretty easy, but, Or, oh, you're talking about specifically to OHI.
• 5:53
  Brian Searl: Okay, sorry.
• 5:53
  Brian Searl: I thought you were we won't go there
• 5:55
  Jeff Hoffman: No, I was talking about the I was talking about your the Canadian meeting.
• 5:59
  Jeff Hoffman: Because I was interested to go up and just see what the actual feeling is in Canada with owners and, campground owners and how we can develop a better relationship across the border with...
• 6:15
  Jeff Hoffman: I know that we have some stuff working against us, but, I'm still friendly to Can- to Canadians.
• 6:23
  Jeff Hoffman: I don't know about-
• 6:23
  Brian Searl: it's all just on the mapping level, right?
• 6:24
  Brian Searl: We joke around about this stuff on the show from time to time.
• 6:27
  Brian Searl: We all know- That politics is in the background, and people say things and it impacts behavior.
• 6:32
  Brian Searl: But that doesn't mean the person-to-person relationships can be a little different, right?
• 6:36
  Brian Searl: We're all still humans.
• 6:37
  Jeff Hoffman: Yep.
• 6:38
  Jeff Hoffman: Yeah, and that's what we're, what I'm doing is just looking to go out there, one, as a representative of OHI, but also as myself with Camp Strategy, and just get the reading of Canada and how they're doing on
• 6:50
  Jeff Hoffman: their parks and compared to the US parks.
• 6:54
  Jeff Hoffman: So it should be a fun...
• 6:56
  Jeff Hoffman: Then we go to OHI, and then we go to KOA.
• 7:00
  Jeff Hoffman: So I will be conferencing all month.
• 7:05
  Brian Searl: Awesome.
• 7:05
  Brian Searl: Yeah, that's what I would normally be doing, but I think I've told everybody by now, the cat's kind of out of the bag.
• 7:09
  Brian Searl: But I'm just, I got too much work to do, Jeff.
• 7:12
  Brian Searl: I'm just sitting home, gonna chill.
• 7:14
  Brian Searl: I'm going to the Canada show, but I didn't go to glamping.
• 7:16
  Brian Searl: I'm not gonna go to OHI.
• 7:17
  Brian Searl: I'm not gonna go to KOA this year.
• 7:18
  Brian Searl: Not because they're bad shows.
• 7:19
  Brian Searl: I'm gonna miss everybody there.
• 7:20
  Brian Searl: It's gonna be, sad to not have the networking, but I just got too much stuff to build.
• 7:25
  Brian Searl: You've seen some of the stuff I'm building I've seen, yeah how fast I can do it.
• 7:28
  Jeff Hoffman: Yeah.
• 7:29
  Jeff Hoffman: Who am I gonna harass?
• 7:30
  Jeff Hoffman: I mean-
• 7:32
  Brian Searl: There's lots of people
• 7:32
  Jeff Hoffman: you're my favorite target at every conference, so I gotta find somebody new to harass.
• 7:38
  Brian Searl: How long are you staying in Canada?
• 7:40
  Brian Searl: Are you leaving right away?
• 7:41
  Brian Searl: I know we're having a discussion here that should be, like, private, but whatever.
• 7:44
  Brian Searl: We'll just have a discussion.
• 7:45
  Jeff Hoffman: Yeah.
• 7:45
  Brian Searl: Marlon, are you going to-
• 7:46
  Jeff Hoffman: No, I,
• 7:46
  Brian Searl: are you going to, are you going to OHI?
• 7:47
  Brian Searl: John, are you going to OHI?
• 7:49
  Brian Searl: You going to any conferences?
• 7:50
  Brian Searl: You guys can jump in
• 7:56
  Marlon Lynn: Somewhat my first introduction to the entire world of hospitality.
• 8:00
  Marlon Lynn: My wife and I have a RV that we travel in all over the country and I've really loved being in the community with people.
• 8:08
  Marlon Lynn: The, the campground folks are just wonderful people to be around, so we always make friends and I I, I've enjoyed the environment, but our- my business has really been so evolved around Florida really tied to that.
• 8:23
  Marlon Lynn: But there's so much in Florida, too.
• 8:25
  Marlon Lynn: The the amount of activity of people building in Florida is just crazy.
• 8:29
  Brian Searl: Yeah, there's a good Florida conference in May, I think, that you should consider going to if you wanna expose your business to it.
• 8:33
  Brian Searl: It's a Florida and Alabama show.
• 8:35
  Brian Searl: It's held in the Orlando area every year.
• 8:37
  Brian Searl: Yes.
• 8:38
  Brian Searl: Whoop.
• 8:38
  Jeff Hoffman: I got it mute.
• 8:39
  Jeff Hoffman: I got the birds
• 8:40
  Brian Searl: I got scared for a second, Jeff.
• 8:42
  Brian Searl: I thought he was saying our show for a second was the first exposure he's had to the industry, and I was about to be like, "Man, first impressions, don't let it ruin it for you.
• 8:50
  Brian Searl: Just go to the next one."
• 8:51
  Brian Searl: But then I realized he was just talking about something more broader,
• 8:54
  Jeff Hoffman: yep.
• 8:55
  Jeff Hoffman: That's probably enough from me.
• 8:57
  Jeff Hoffman: I am interested to hear about our two other guests.
• 9:02
  Brian Searl: Yeah, John
• 9:02
  Jeff Hoffman: Both- Marlon, I, I-
• 9:03
  Brian Searl: do either of you go into conferences?
• 9:07
  John Donner: Yeah, I was gonna say we've actually gone to a number of conferences over the last few years.
• 9:11
  John Donner: This year, similar to what you just mentioned, Brian, we've been just in a flurry of building.
• 9:15
  John Donner: And I think we're gonna hunker down a little bit more.
• 9:18
  John Donner: We were thinking about going to a couple of things this December.
• 9:23
  John Donner: There's a few conferences and conferences that we're exploring as, when we first started out, we were always RV campgrounds.
• 9:30
  John Donner: But then as we grew and developed, we kinda naturally got pulled into things like marinas and different verticals within the outdoor spaces.
• 9:38
  John Donner: And so we're exploring, okay, maybe we can talk shop with some of these marina folks maybe talk shop with a few other tangential verticals.
• 9:47
  John Donner: But then for the most part we're like, "Okay, we know what we gotta do.
• 9:50
  John Donner: We gotta continue delivering on bridging the gap between technology and bringing that to the camps."
• 9:56
  John Donner: I literally just stopped by one of the first camps we worked with, and she was like, "Yeah, we just still don't know what we're doing here with technology."
• 10:03
  John Donner: And I'm like, "Okay, that's what we're here for."
• 10:04
  Brian Searl: I don't know what I'm doing either, so like-
• 10:06
  John Donner: And hopefully-
• 10:07
  Brian Searl: Jeff, you know what you're doing yet?
• 10:09
  Brian Searl: Yeah, Jeff's been here like 140 years, I think.
• 10:12
  Brian Searl: Anyway, continue.
• 10:13
  Marlon Lynn: I will tell you that, the last two months, I've really dived into the world of AI, and it's dramatically just changed my entire life.
• 10:21
  Marlon Lynn: My, my business productivity is literally doubled comparatively to what I was doing before I really engaged.
• 10:29
  Marlon Lynn: So technology is changing so quickly.
• 10:33
  Marlon Lynn: It's literally every single day, I feel like there's something new and interesting and productive that's hitting my plate.
• 10:40
  Marlon Lynn: So-
• 10:40
  John Donner: Yeah.
• 10:40
  John Donner: We-
• 10:40
  Marlon Lynn: I couldn't imagine trying to keep up, John and incorporate that into other people's businesses.
• 10:45
  John Donner: We just talked to a campground literally last week, and the guy was like, "Yeah, I'm thinking about, I've heard about these phone responders."
• 10:52
  John Donner: We're like, "Yeah, we could-- We're-- That's actually on our roadmap.
• 10:54
  John Donner: We could build that for you."
• 10:55
  John Donner: And then we get on with him, and he already had it done.
• 10:57
  John Donner: And he's like, "Yeah I think this is working."
• 10:59
  John Donner: And we're like, "Yep, nope, that's working great."
• 11:03
  John Donner: And so it's the, the pace that everything's moving, it's really fast.
• 11:06
  John Donner: What's cool is that people are now able to build their own stuff, and then that can integrate with the systems that exist today, right?
• 11:13
  John Donner: So integrations and partnerships are really gonna be really huge in the next few years.
• 11:17
  Brian Searl: It is interesting though, John, and maybe we can have a brief conversation about this 'cause you're the software guy, right?
• 11:21
  Brian Searl: And Jeff, you can weigh in on this too if you want or Marlon, and then we'll obviously get to your business in a second, Marlon.
• 11:26
  Brian Searl: But I was watching a, a video on, I don't know, we used YouTube, but I can't remember the conference, right?
• 11:31
  Brian Searl: And I can't remember the speaker's name.
• 11:32
  Brian Searl: But it was basically an hour-long presentation on the future of SaaS and how everything is gonna change because of AI.
• 11:39
  Brian Searl: And he started the presentation saying "Here's eight to 10 reasons that you should freak out," 'cause it was a business room full of SaaS owners, right?
• 11:46
  Brian Searl: "And then here's some reasons why you shouldn't freak out," was the next one.
• 11:50
  Brian Searl: And then it was, "Here's reasons that you can build yourself a moat against like worrying about this stuff in the future."
• 11:56
  Brian Searl: It was like, there's a couple things at the end, right?
• 11:58
  Brian Searl: And nobody really knows what that moat is.
• 11:59
  Brian Searl: But I'm in the same boat, like I don't do-
• 12:01
  John Donner: Yep
• 12:02
  Brian Searl: booking engine property management software, but we build intelligence layers, we build data, we build things for the guests.
• 12:08
  Brian Searl: We build like everything basically except the booking engine we do.
• 12:11
  Brian Searl: So the same thing applies to us with our AI chats and calls and all the other things, right?
• 12:16
  Brian Searl: And so I'm curious where you think that goes because you, you started to talk about the, the owners building things themselves.
• 12:21
  Brian Searl: I think that's an edge case.
• 12:23
  Brian Searl: Like I think that people will try to do that and then they'll be like-
• 12:26
  John Donner: Yeah.
• 12:26
  John Donner: Yes
• 12:26
  Brian Searl: oh, here's a dashboard in Claude or a website in Claude, how do I actually connect that to something?
• 12:31
  Brian Searl: And then that's where it dies.
• 12:32
  Brian Searl: Or how do I build the database behind it or how things connect to-
• 12:35
  John Donner: Yes
• 12:36
  Brian Searl: like the operate...
• 12:37
  Brian Searl: Like it's easy to go clone my chatbot.
• 12:39
  Brian Searl: Like we released a new chatbot, right?
• 12:41
  Brian Searl: It's easy to go look at it, take a screenshot and be like, "Claude, build this."
• 12:44
  Brian Searl: But you're not actually building it..
• 12:45
  Brian Searl: You're building something that looks like it.
• 12:47
  John Donner: And it's a good point that, we're still not at a place and I, I think we got some time where you can actually build a functioning, fully fledged, SaaS product, for example.
• 12:56
  John Donner: And I think the other thing, I was just talking with some founder friends about this recently, like What's not gonna go away is that people are gonna have problems that they have to deal with, and they have to
• 13:07
  John Donner: own and maintain those problems, and so if you are an expert in running a campground, for example, like there are a whole slew of problems in running a campground and with all the maintenance logic the logistics of like
• 13:21
  John Donner: the sewage and everything.
• 13:38
  John Donner: The tape space to be able to own all of those things.
• 13:42
  John Donner: Sure, AI allows you to...
• 13:57
  John Donner: Or follow now there's a lot more stuff to do I think there's stuff that I shouldn't need to worry about as a business owner and that allows me to be a better campground manager, owner, et cetera, et cetera
• 14:22
  Brian Searl: So let me ask you this question, John.
• 14:24
  Brian Searl: One is you've obviously run your reservation software, you said, for five years now?
• 14:30
  John Donner: Yeah, a little over.
• 14:30
  Brian Searl: Why do you think people, because it Not everybody, and we know this from the data we gather, right?
• 14:35
  Brian Searl: Most, surprisingly, it's pretty close to most people still don't have online reservation systems at campgrounds in the United States and definitely in Canada.
• 14:44
  Brian Searl: But for the people who have online reservation systems, which are most of the people who come to these conferences, OHI and all that it seems to be the same kind of people every year and then you add what
• 14:53
  Brian Searl: would you say, Jeff, like 10 to 20% new people but about 80% the same every year?
• 14:58
  Brian Searl: So most of those people coming to the conferences already have some kind of a booking engine, just talking about your product specifically here for and I know it's more than a booking property management system.
• 15:06
  John Donner: Sure.
• 15:07
  Brian Searl: But they already have-
• 15:08
  John Donner: Yep
• 15:09
  Brian Searl: either a Campspot or a Newbook or a StayList or they're on Park with Us and they're looking at somebody else, not that anybody would ever switch from you, John, 'cause you're perfect, I'm just saying.
• 15:16
  Brian Searl: But people are shopping around, right?
• 15:18
  John Donner: We've, we have a very low churn rate, for sure.
• 15:20
  Brian Searl: But but my question to you is two-part is one is why do you think people are switching reservation softwares today?
• 15:26
  Brian Searl: Agnostic, not like yours to somebody else's, right?
• 15:30
  Brian Searl: And then two, what do you, how do you think that changes in the future with AI?
• 15:38
  John Donner: Yeah, good questions.
• 15:39
  John Donner: To me, they're changing because they don't have all the solutions or all the problems solved.
• 15:45
  John Donner: And so-
• 15:45
  Brian Searl: But as in-- and I don't mean that in a negative, but as in just said-
• 15:47
  John Donner: again we've been very-
• 15:48
  Brian Searl: You don't have them solved after five years.
• 15:49
  John Donner: Yeah.
• 15:49
  Brian Searl: I don't have them solved after sixteen.
• 15:50
  Brian Searl: Jeff doesn't have them solved after eighty.
• 15:52
  Brian Searl: So are they just gonna endlessly keep switching?
• 15:55
  Brian Searl: Sorry.
• 15:58
  John Donner: They might.
• 15:58
  John Donner: They might.
• 15:59
  John Donner: They might.
• 15:59
  John Donner: No to me, what it is you have this kind of...
• 16:04
  John Donner: I'm trying to see how to articulate this.
• 16:06
  John Donner: But basically, you have vertical-- other verticals outside of the outdoor industry.
• 16:14
  John Donner: When you look at successful companies, they're able to solve like a whole suite of problems, and maybe they're not gonna solve all the problems, but they're able to solve like the, the problems that are in different spaces.
• 16:26
  John Donner: For example, we had, we've been ver-very fortunate to not have a big churn rate but we have lost a couple or a handful of camps here and there in the last few years.
• 16:34
  John Donner: And there was a few examples where we had some camps leave because they didn't have like ticketing, for example, right?
• 16:41
  John Donner: And we cover so much in terms of a PMS and being able to handle the bookings and handle the guest management, et cetera, et cetera.
• 16:49
  John Donner: But then we didn't have this component of like ticketing software, right?
• 16:53
  John Donner: And this ticketing software was enough for them to be like we're using another platform for this."
• 16:58
  John Donner: And so they become bifurcated.
• 17:00
  John Donner: And then from there, there's an opportunity for the other business that's giving them ticketing software to build software that also solves the problems that we're solving, right?
• 17:10
  John Donner: And so it's easy for them to then switch over "Okay I actually wouldn't mind having everything all under one roof," right?
• 17:16
  John Donner: So I think that's one major component is like, can I s- meet all of my needs as a business under one roof?
• 17:23
  John Donner: And that ends up, changing constantly because different companies and different service providers are constantly tweaking their offering, right?
• 17:31
  John Donner: And so to me that's a major driver and that's what we see.
• 17:34
  John Donner: But I don't know if there's something else that Marlon or Jeff can can speak to.
• 17:38
  Brian Searl: Yeah, let's stay in the current for a second, and then we'll go to the future because I wanna weigh into you on that.
• 17:42
  Brian Searl: Go ahead, Jeff or Marlon.
• 17:43
  Jeff Hoffman: I think every conversation that I have with campground owners, every group where we get together, it-- the PMS systems come up.
• 17:55
  Jeff Hoffman: I just attended Camp- Campspot where I was with Casey and a group in training on Campspot.
• 18:04
  Jeff Hoffman: I-- Because I consult, what I do is I try to stay up to date on every PMS system that's out there.
• 18:12
  Jeff Hoffman: And, everybody's gonna be the shiny new product this week But then the next group's gonna figure out what they did and copy it.
• 18:24
  Jeff Hoffman: So-
• 18:25
  Brian Searl: Yeah, that's what to- that's what, and I don't mean to interrupt you, but that's that's the thing that I think is gonna change with AI when we get to that discussion.
• 18:31
  Brian Searl: It already is happening and I'm gonna give a macro view of the PMS scape and understanding that there are micro players that do things differently.
• 18:40
  Brian Searl: But on a macro level, I see, I've seen for the last and I'll go way past John, when you've been here five years, right?
• 18:47
  Brian Searl: 10, 15 years.
• 18:49
  Brian Searl: Basically, we've been like, I invent something, somebody else copies it, somebody else copies it, somebody else copies it, then they invent something new, and then it goes backwards, and this person copies it, and that per- And I don't
• 18:59
  Brian Searl: see really anybody doing a ton of real huge innovation here until we saw something like Staylist Apex.
• 19:06
  Brian Searl: That was the one thing that I think was like, wow, for me.
• 19:09
  Brian Searl: Now, I'm not saying other people won't do that in the future.
• 19:12
  Brian Searl: I think it's gonna change with AI.
• 19:14
  Brian Searl: But that was the big difference maker to me.
• 19:17
  Brian Searl: I don't know what you guys think.
• 19:18
  Jeff Hoffman: Stay- yeah, Staylist, I think, advanced that quickly because they brought in somebody with an outside expertise, but outside of the campground business, and he remodeled their whole thinking.
• 19:35
  Jeff Hoffman: And I think that's why they made a tremendous jump.
• 19:38
  Marlon Lynn: Yeah I think If you stay within one genre of software and you don't go outside that software to find influences, I think you really end up in a place where you just don't grow and mature.
• 19:54
  Marlon Lynn: Lindsay, he's a business manager at Florida Lake, but we actually had a home inspection software company and literally like you just couldn't keep up with the movement in the industry.
• 20:08
  Marlon Lynn: It just moved so quickly.
• 20:11
  Marlon Lynn: So I just I completely understand your pains and frustrations with trying to stay up with the industry and keep new functions growing.
• 20:20
  Marlon Lynn: But as you start to add features, trying to get your product to maintain stability and try to add to it and be competitive, it's just it's virtually impossible.
• 20:31
  Marlon Lynn: And obviously you're on it all day, every day.
• 20:34
  Marlon Lynn: But yeah, that's a that was a crazy part of business.
• 20:38
  Brian Searl: This is what worries me in the future is that, and I don't want to spend the whole show on PMSs, right?
• 20:44
  Brian Searl: Maybe John does, but we don't want to spend the whole show on PMSs.
• 20:49
  Brian Searl: But this is what worries me, right?
• 20:50
  Brian Searl: It's I think in the future with AI, features become a commodity.
• 20:54
  Brian Searl: I don't think there's any feature and I'm not talking about the database and how things operate, right?
• 20:59
  Brian Searl: I'm talking about features that you market to campground owners.
• 21:02
  Brian Searl: I don't think there's anything that you can build really right now.
• 21:06
  Brian Searl: And I know how fast I develop with software and stuff like that with AI, but I have no life, right?
• 21:13
  Brian Searl: But in the future, especially where you're not like any feature you develop is going to be able to be matched by the competitor in a week.
• 21:20
  Brian Searl: So I don't think features are the moat.
• 21:23
  Brian Searl: So if that world comes to pass, and I'm not saying you agree with that, John, although you can say if you don't or don't, I don't want to put words in your mouth or don't.
• 21:30
  Brian Searl: I don't want to put words in your mouth.
• 21:32
  Brian Searl: But if that future comes to pass, how does software like Park With Us or anyone else differentiate themselves?
• 21:41
  John Donner: Yeah.
• 21:41
  John Donner: And th- this is the thing that keeps us up at night, right?
• 21:44
  John Donner: This is the thing that we passionately are thinking about right now.
• 21:48
  John Donner: For us, it comes back to kinda what we started the company on and, maybe this is a bit because we were a more recent addition to the array of PMS in the space.
• 21:57
  John Donner: But to me it's about being human and connecting with the campground space and with this industry, right?
• 22:05
  John Donner: As the technology is supposed to supplement this, and technology is supposed to make our lives easier so we can enjoy the outdoors more.
• 22:12
  John Donner: And for us, it's like, if we're getting too lost in the weeds trying to build every feature and stay in parity, I think we lost the plot a little bit.
• 22:21
  John Donner: And also, we wanna make sure that y- the campground owners and the people that we service also are actually able to enjoy the outdoors more and connect with their guests.
• 22:31
  John Donner: And so for us, I think what Salus has done is really cool because I think it allows us to automate more stuff and get out of-- get technology out of the way a little bit more so you're not
• 22:41
  John Donner: spending all your time behind a computer screen just like tweaking configurations, right?
• 22:46
  John Donner: And that's the direction I think the industry will continue to go into.
• 22:49
  John Donner: But what I think is really important as a differentiator is to have good human support, right?
• 22:54
  John Donner: Or have actually actual humans on the phone.
• 22:58
  John Donner: So that way, when you are connecting with technology, it's not just getting lost to, the matrix to reference a cultural moment.
• 23:06
  Brian Searl: Jeff, anything to add?
• 23:11
  Jeff Hoffman: I think what I'm looking at is John, in business we always There was a book called Blue Ocean.
• 23:20
  Jeff Hoffman: We're always looking for a niche to fill.
• 23:23
  Jeff Hoffman: The, the problem I'm seeing with AI is those niches are getting filled quicker than they used to.
• 23:31
  Jeff Hoffman: You used to have some time to own an area of product until people were able to copy it and kick you out of the space.
• 23:41
  Jeff Hoffman: That time has just-
• 23:44
  John Donner: Yeah
• 23:44
  Jeff Hoffman: cut down to almost zero.
• 23:47
  Jeff Hoffman: So it's really hard to develop your own little space.
• 23:52
  Jeff Hoffman: But, as far as PMS, I think what you have to, what you have to start doing is stepping outside and then see where the next level generation is gonna be, and I think that's where you're gonna have to
• 24:06
  Jeff Hoffman: concentrate.
• 24:07
  Jeff Hoffman: Or staying small and being very customer service oriented, because as some of these companies get bigger, they're not servicing the com- the customer like they did, and there's always a niche for the personal service
• 24:25
  Brian Searl: What's interesting to me, I think is the audience that which, in which we serve, right?
• 24:29
  Brian Searl: Like we serve campground owners, RV park owners, glamping resort owners.
• 24:33
  Brian Searl: Most of those people on a, again, on a macro level I'm just gonna stereotype the industry, but we all know it's different on micro to micro, different people, different, ways that they came into the industry.
• 24:43
  Brian Searl: But on a macro level, I think it's fair, and Jeff, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think on a macro level, most people who are, who got into the business of owning a campground or RV
• 24:50
  Brian Searl: park or whatever else, got into that business because they don't want squat all to do with technology, right?
• 24:57
  Brian Searl: They wanna be outside every day, they want to enjoy nature, they wanna work with their hands, they wanna build things, they wanna greet customers, they wanna whatever.
• 25:04
  Brian Searl: The antithesis of everything that is technology.
• 25:08
  Brian Searl: So what I think about often is and this has to do with w- we're also building s- not BookingEngine or PMSs, but similar software products that are, I don't know, what I would call advanced, right?
• 25:19
  Brian Searl: Is that, is the audience an audience that can be or wants to be convinced that your feature is different than somebody else's?
• 25:30
  Brian Searl: Does the argument even land?
• 25:32
  Brian Searl: And that was part of what the guy was saying in the SAS video that I watched, for an hour that I was talking about earlier, is that he's like, "There's really only two to three features that all your
• 25:40
  Brian Searl: customers are using in software."
• 25:42
  Brian Searl: It's two to three that might be different for each individual person, right?
• 25:45
  Brian Searl: But there's really only two to three they care about.
• 25:48
  Brian Searl: It begs the question, then you roll over okay, now I'm in an era of AI, I'm moving faster, and I know, John, your argument is like the human thing.
• 25:54
  Brian Searl: That's a very strong argument, but also, like everybody can hire humans and everybody can provide better customer service, too.
• 26:00
  Brian Searl: It just doesn't scale quite as fast as AI, and not all of it is on equal footing, depending on who you hire and how they're trained and all those kinds of variables, right?
• 26:09
  Brian Searl: But st- sticking with the technology and features itself-
• 26:12
  John Donner: Right
• 26:12
  Brian Searl: Is there a reason for the campground owners who are watching this podcast to care about these new features?
• 26:20
  Brian Searl: A- and if there is, how do we show them the true value of it without just saying "I have this, and they don't have this"?
• 26:32
  John Donner: Yeah.
• 26:32
  John Donner: To me, the, the other side of this that I didn't speak to before, which, I still think the differentiator here is the human touch.
• 26:40
  John Donner: That said, on the technology side, I think really it's about getting out of the way in terms of trying to market features and more trying to market what are we doing for you as a business and how are
• 26:52
  John Donner: we helping you not use-- not feel like you're using technology and grow your business, right?
• 26:59
  John Donner: And I think if that becomes a little bit more of the focus, you can let the technology take care of the...
• 27:05
  John Donner: and let them focus on solving their problems, right?
• 27:08
  John Donner: And again, Staylist's Apex feature feature set is like, okay, an AI native.
• 27:14
  John Donner: As a campground owner I wanna do X.
• 27:17
  John Donner: I don't need to monkey around with a, with an interface, right?
• 27:20
  John Donner: It just goes and does it.
• 27:22
  John Donner: And so if we can get away from having to comb through settings pages to figure the fe- You can think you have a feature rate or a race to the bottom with a feature set because every company is
• 27:36
  John Donner: going to eventually be doing this a la the speed that things are moving.
• 27:39
  John Donner: And and then, and I think, and the human aspect of things because everything else is equal.
• 27:46
  Brian Searl: Yeah, I think for me and again, I'm not a PMS provider, but I think if I was one, I think in my mind it would be a race to who can get the owner out of the office fastest
• 27:53
  Brian Searl: and being able to connect to their guests more.
• 27:57
  Brian Searl: Is what I...
• 28:00
  John Donner: much better said than-
• 28:01
  Brian Searl: I just don't have complete thoughts like you do, man.
• 28:03
  Brian Searl: I just have like here and there, and they just pop in my head, so
• 28:09
  Marlon Lynn: Your, your comment about getting your, getting the owners out to be able to interact with guests k- gets me to guests' side of the experience.
• 28:19
  Marlon Lynn: We've i- in a lot of our designs, we really focus on how do we give the guests the best experience that the guests can have, and have the guests feel like they're being served the best- ha- having everything
• 28:35
  Marlon Lynn: at their fingertips.
• 28:36
  Marlon Lynn: That, that really is to me the reason that you would have software so you can actually support their experience and have every guest have as positive of the experience as they could have every single transaction.
• 28:51
  Marlon Lynn: So I really think when you lose that viewpoint of the guest and the people that you're serving it, you really lose the point of the software.
• 28:59
  Jeff Hoffman: All right.
• 28:59
  Jeff Hoffman: Marlon I am interested to hear about your business because when you mentioned 150-
• 29:02
  Brian Searl: That's what I was gonna ask Marlon, and then you're...
• 29:04
  Brian Searl: I was like, "No, Jeff's talking."
• 29:07
  Jeff Hoffman: Oh I am very interested in that because we do a lot of construction and remodels, and the quicker we can get something...
• 29:19
  Jeff Hoffman: Our biggest challenge nowadays is permitting on the buildings and then finding a contractor that actually shows up and completes the project.
• 29:31
  Jeff Hoffman: I have a swimming pool- that started two years ago.
• 29:37
  Jeff Hoffman: Got delayed, got started, and then found out we were missing a permit.
• 29:42
  Jeff Hoffman: And we just got that.
• 29:44
  Jeff Hoffman: We dug the hole, got the rebar in April, and it's still sitting there.
• 29:48
  Jeff Hoffman: If it was a pre-constructed and I popped it in the ground-
• 29:51
  Marlon Lynn: Yeah
• 29:51
  Jeff Hoffman: it'd be done.
• 29:54
  Jeff Hoffman: So let me...
• 29:57
  Jeff Hoffman: i'd love to hear about your business.
• 30:03
  Marlon Lynn: Yeah, and I I really appreciate the the introduction.
• 30:06
  Marlon Lynn: But several years ago we really looked at what was happening during COVID and how hard it was to get to a hundred different suppliers to be able to get products to a job site, and then get, 20 different
• 30:19
  Marlon Lynn: subcontractors to show up to a small job.
• 30:23
  Marlon Lynn: And we worked towards getting a, a single supply source for materials and getting a way to be able to do construction as quickly as it could be done.
• 30:36
  Marlon Lynn: So LoraLake is what we've developed as far as a, a product goes, and the product is actually a steel beam with a wood insert.
• 30:48
  Marlon Lynn: So we bolt the steel together on site, and then we have a panel system that flat backs to the site just like a IKEA furniture that you'd go buy in a box.
• 30:59
  Marlon Lynn: So you assemble all the pieces right on the job site.
• 31:02
  Marlon Lynn: So once you get the steel bolted together, every other connection is a two-inch nail.
• 31:08
  Marlon Lynn: So it it ends up with a system that's it's three times stronger than what we need for hurricanes in Florida, which is a significant accomplishment.
• 31:17
  Marlon Lynn: And then on the thermal side, our average R-value is an R-32 for the entire wall.
• 31:23
  Marlon Lynn: So-
• 31:23
  Brian Searl: Which for the people who don't, for the people who don't know, R-32 is
• 31:33
  Marlon Lynn: Yeah, so if you look at your wall and you, i- in the wintertime or in the summertime, if you go up to your wall and your if it's cold outside and your wall is a decent temperature, and then
• 31:45
  Marlon Lynn: you go over to your window and you touch the window, and the window's cold.
• 31:49
  Marlon Lynn: Your window may be an R2 and your wall's probably like an R13.
• 31:54
  Marlon Lynn: So you can really feel the difference of the heat transfer through the wall.
• 31:58
  Marlon Lynn: But the R value is what we use to be able to judge how efficient that wall system is to block the heat transfer through the wall.
• 32:07
  Marlon Lynn: So it that, that's usually what what we use criteria-wise.
• 32:11
  Marlon Lynn: But the products that we're producing right now we just took a few of them out to Oklahoma and the products we took out there were 550 square feet.
• 32:24
  Marlon Lynn: We showed up o- over a weekend, started Monday morning at 10:00, and we had two shells assembled by noon on Friday.
• 32:33
  Marlon Lynn: And then from there, the people on site finished the outside of the building and finished the inside of the building.
• 32:38
  Marlon Lynn: So once we put a shell up, you would say...
• 32:43
  Marlon Lynn: awe.
• 32:43
  Brian Searl: Lap dog.
• 32:44
  Marlon Lynn: Good friend there.
• 32:45
  Marlon Lynn: Once you get the shell up, you r- you really just need a handyman to finish out the building.
• 32:50
  Marlon Lynn: So it it goes anywhere.
• 32:52
  Marlon Lynn: We just need a telehandler.
• 32:54
  Marlon Lynn: We don't need a crane.
• 32:56
  Marlon Lynn: You don't have to worry about these pre-manufactured buildings where you're trying to get on a site and, you've got to get this huge 100-ton crane into place and set it onto the right location.
• 33:07
  Marlon Lynn: We just make it a lot easier to get to difficult locations.
• 33:13
  Marlon Lynn: We've got a a simple system to do assembly-wise.
• 33:16
  Marlon Lynn: And then when we leave, we've got all the hard part done.
• 33:19
  Marlon Lynn: So you just finish out the the, the exterior finish and interior finish.
• 33:22
  Brian Searl: All right.
• 33:23
  Brian Searl: One is my-- I have two questions, right?
• 33:25
  Brian Searl: Number one is, you mentioned IKEA.
• 33:28
  Brian Searl: Do you have weird names that people can't pronounce for this stuff?
• 33:34
  Marlon Lynn: I stick with simplicity, view.
• 33:37
  Brian Searl: Okay, so-
• 33:38
  Marlon Lynn: Those kind of names.
• 33:39
  Brian Searl: Two is give us the macro picture as a campground owner.
• 33:42
  Brian Searl: What am I-- What can I-- What type of things can I construct with your kits?
• 33:47
  Brian Searl: Is kits the right word?
• 33:51
  Marlon Lynn: Absolutely.
• 33:53
  Marlon Lynn: Yeah we usage the, the anything can be a kit, but we have a packages of materials that you assemble with construction guys.
• 34:01
  Marlon Lynn: But we really target something that is probably a little bit more high-end.
• 34:08
  Marlon Lynn: Because of the strength and the energy efficiency and the speed of construction, we're definitely not the least expensive way to get a building in place, but we're the fastest way to get it in place and the most energy
• 34:22
  Marlon Lynn: efficient once it's there.
• 34:24
  Marlon Lynn: But the, the folks that we're working with, they're actually renting these 500 square foot units in a middle of nowhere location for six to $700 a night.
• 34:36
  Marlon Lynn: So it's it's definitely a, a niche kind of environment that we worked in so far, but we definitely have solutions for folks that are in a more common campground environment.
• 34:50
  Marlon Lynn: I- if you can easily get production materials to a campground and you've got plenty of time, we may not be the answer for you.
• 34:58
  Marlon Lynn: But our clients, we solve some really specific problems that hardly anybody else can solve.
• 35:05
  Brian Searl: All right, Jeff, camp strategy consultant, guru, person, genius, where would they use modular packages like this?
• 35:15
  Brian Searl: Where can it be helpful?
• 35:16
  Brian Searl: You're muted still, Jeff.
• 35:19
  Jeff Hoffman: That's because somebody's cutting weed whipping.
• 35:22
  Jeff Hoffman: I would think that this product can be used any place.
• 35:26
  Jeff Hoffman: The biggest thing is making sure that state by state, county by county, it can be permitted before people commit.
• 35:37
  Jeff Hoffman: And I don't...
• 35:38
  Jeff Hoffman: Do you guys help with permitting?
• 35:40
  Jeff Hoffman: Pulling the, the construction permit, the engineering for the actual building is sent to the building inspector, or in some cases the state to get that approval.
• 35:53
  Jeff Hoffman: And do you do...
• 35:54
  Jeff Hoffman: is it...
• 35:56
  Jeff Hoffman: Does it come complete with the electric connections, the HVC, all of that, or is it just the shell?
• 36:09
  Marlon Lynn: Yeah.
• 36:09
  Marlon Lynn: G- great set of questions.
• 36:11
  Marlon Lynn: So I am an architect by trade, so we actually are able to hit most states.
• 36:18
  Marlon Lynn: There's a few states that deal with seismic, such as California, Alaska, where I would have to partner with somebody that is in that area with licenses in those states.
• 36:29
  Marlon Lynn: But we definitely have a product that, that the strength, we're way overbuilt.
• 36:35
  Marlon Lynn: By the time that you get a ring of steel all the way around this building, we are so strong.
• 36:41
  Marlon Lynn: It, Our building inspectors walk in and they look at it and say, "This is ridiculous," and walk out because everything's completely stitched together.
• 36:49
  Marlon Lynn: All the way around the skin of the building, there's a steel ring that holds it to the ground.
• 36:53
  Marlon Lynn: But we've intentionally done only a shell product because the shell components are the things that give the most heartache when trying to get s- a, a small site built with construction workers.
• 37:06
  Marlon Lynn: They don't wanna show up to build 500 square feet.
• 37:09
  Marlon Lynn: They don't wanna show up to build 1,000 square feet.
• 37:12
  Marlon Lynn: So we get that hard part done, but our system is made where local electricians, local plumbers, local HVAC people can all work within the system, and it just accommodates all those local folks very well.
• 37:28
  Marlon Lynn: So they, it it's a very simple system to work in.
• 37:32
  Marlon Lynn: I've, I started in the 1980s in construction and was blessed to be able to go through and go into architecture.
• 37:39
  Marlon Lynn: But I've seen every kind of building that there is, and we've taken all the best parts, tried to leave out the parts that time has left behind, and really look towards the future.
• 37:50
  Marlon Lynn: But our products are legitimately built within a thousandth of an inch, so across an entire building you may have a variation of, a quarter of an inch from one side of the building to the other side of the
• 38:01
  Marlon Lynn: building.
• 38:02
  Marlon Lynn: So it it's a super system to work inside of because it's straight and square when we leave, and it it's a great product in that way.
• 38:09
  Brian Searl: Jeff, how difficult is this for, like you've owned your, you owned a, what, how about 17, 18 campgrounds at some point, whatever the number was.
• 38:17
  Brian Searl: But you still own one, and you obviously do consulting for a bunch.
• 38:20
  Brian Searl: How difficult is what he said to accomplish with like a, one of the cabin manufacturers that people will see at OHI or KOA?
• 38:27
  Brian Searl: Is it hard to bring in a local to help us with those?
• 38:31
  Jeff Hoffman: What happens and what is happening in some states park models are permitted- In campgrounds under the RVIA label, so they're limited to 400 square feet.
• 38:45
  Jeff Hoffman: And then they are, by definition, temporary type living.
• 38:53
  Jeff Hoffman: Everything that's built to the RVIA code is technically supposed to be temporary, not full-time.
• 39:04
  Jeff Hoffman: What happens once you go over that 400 square feet, i- in Ohio, they're starting to enforce cabins that people have built that aren't built to any code, haven't.
• 39:19
  Jeff Hoffman: And I think- every state is starting to get to that point, where they're taking a look.
• 39:25
  Jeff Hoffman: There are certain states that don't have any zoning, but I know very few states that don't have some type of building code that you have to build to.
• 39:40
  Jeff Hoffman: And I don't care who they are.
• 39:42
  Jeff Hoffman: They're concerned about plumbing, they're concerned about electric, they're concerned about safety.
• 39:47
  Jeff Hoffman: Those are the issues that would get you in trouble when you build your own cabins or ha- have them privately built.
• 39:54
  Jeff Hoffman: The Amish build a ton of cabins, but they build them, and generally they don't even have a blueprint.
• 40:02
  Jeff Hoffman: So when you're asked to prove-
• 40:04
  Brian Searl: But yet somehow, and I'm not gonna go into an anti-regulation rant or anything, somehow the Amish-
• 40:10
  Jeff Hoffman: Right
• 40:10
  Brian Searl: are still here today.
• 40:12
  Brian Searl: But continue, Jeff.
• 40:14
  Jeff Hoffman: Oh, no no, I was talking about the Amish constructing for a campground, construction build.
• 40:19
  Brian Searl: I would think that they don't have a lot of building codes for the Amish buildings either, Jeff, is my guess.
• 40:24
  Jeff Hoffman: No.
• 40:24
  Jeff Hoffman: No, the-
• 40:25
  Brian Searl: But continue, sorry
• 40:26
  Jeff Hoffman: and I, and it's not a comment that their stuff isn't well-built, it's just not-
• 40:31
  Brian Searl: Yeah
• 40:31
  Jeff Hoffman: permitted.
• 40:31
  Brian Searl: That's what I mean.
• 40:32
  Brian Searl: I'm just saying.
• 40:33
  Brian Searl: Anyway, continue.
• 40:34
  Brian Searl: I don't wanna get on a f- I, I don't wanna take it back.
• 40:36
  Brian Searl: Keep going where you're going.
• 40:37
  Jeff Hoffman: My biggest concern with your, with your product is, how do you compete on the square footage cost versus site-built?
• 40:48
  Jeff Hoffman: Where's your manufacturing facility?
• 40:51
  Jeff Hoffman: Because I, I spent years in the manufactured home industry, and probably a half of my lifetime in the manufactured housing business, in building modular homes, all of that, and I always saw the advantage.
• 41:11
  Jeff Hoffman: But a lot of times permitting, stupid rules took care of all the c- manufacturing savings that I was getting.
• 41:24
  Jeff Hoffman: So by the time I put the house on a foundation, I was very close to a stick-built house.
• 41:29
  Jeff Hoffman: So that would be, one, you guys offer speed, which is great in some circumstances.
• 41:35
  Jeff Hoffman: But two what's the cost?
• 41:43
  Marlon Lynn: Yeah, absolutely.
• 41:44
  Marlon Lynn: So it really depends on the square footages that we're building.
• 41:47
  Marlon Lynn: Currently we are about $60 to $75 a square foot for the shell.
• 41:54
  Marlon Lynn: That's the floor, the wall, and the roof, bringing all the materials there, getting all that stuff in place, which we are absolutely more expensive than somebody going out and building with two-by-four studs and plywood.
• 42:06
  Marlon Lynn: We're not competing with that person.
• 42:09
  Marlon Lynn: But the cool part is once we're in-- once that shell's in place, you can really use every tier of labor to get out.
• 42:18
  Marlon Lynn: So if somebody has the time and energy to work on a project themselves, it'd be a great product to be able to have a manufacturing goes.
• 42:35
  Marlon Lynn: We really feel like we're on that automated train.
• 42:40
  Marlon Lynn: So our product is actually developed where we have a a series of partners.
• 42:46
  Marlon Lynn: We've gotta get the right machine, but we literally send a a print file to our partners.
• 42:53
  Marlon Lynn: We can do that anywhere in the country, and they produce our product locally to you depending on the size and the scope of your project.
• 43:02
  Marlon Lynn: But w- we don't have any scaling or expansion problems.
• 43:07
  Marlon Lynn: Our products are so universal.
• 43:09
  Marlon Lynn: We have got a material supplier that is represented in 40-something locations across the US, so we can get materials to any part of the United States and get our manufacturing process executed really anywhere we want to across the
• 43:25
  Marlon Lynn: United States.
• 43:25
  Brian Searl: All right.
• 43:25
  Brian Searl: So everything is solved for you, Jeff, except the permitting, which it sounds like maybe we could use a PMX that did automatic finding of the building inspectors and generated AI things to woo them or something, right?
• 43:38
  Brian Searl: Is that on part of the roadmap or
• 43:42
  John Donner: I wa- I was thinking the same thing and it just entered the roadmap.
• 43:47
  Marlon Lynn: See, what I wanna do is go ahead and have your software figure out when they can afford to finance their new additions, and we just integrate that with the software and it'll just pop up, every,
• 43:58
  Jeff Hoffman: yep
• 43:58
  Marlon Lynn: month it'll tell them how far they are along-
• 44:00
  Jeff Hoffman: Do you have,
• 44:01
  Marlon Lynn: and be prepared for their new expansion.
• 44:03
  John Donner: Once our MCP is launched in the next month, you can go wild.
• 44:06
  Jeff Hoffman: Do you have a website that people can take a look at your product?
• 44:08
  Jeff Hoffman: Can, Brian, can that be put in the link?
• 44:10
  Jeff Hoffman: Because I do have unfort- someone that I work with and have talked to is trying to build something in Alaska, and if, anything that you can get up in Alaska pre-built is gonna be way cheaper than hiring local
• 44:28
  Jeff Hoffman: labor.
• 44:29
  Jeff Hoffman: So it might be something that we could take a look at there.
• 44:33
  Jeff Hoffman: And it sounds like you can meet, 'cause they have, really high insulation factors, everything else up there.
• 44:42
  Jeff Hoffman: Sounds like you could meet that.
• 44:48
  Marlon Lynn: Yeah, absolutely.
• 44:49
  Marlon Lynn: And we have pathways-
• 44:50
  Jeff Hoffman: Okay
• 44:50
  Marlon Lynn: to get above R50.
• 44:52
  Marlon Lynn: So it's so there's-
• 44:54
  Jeff Hoffman: Yeah
• 44:54
  Marlon Lynn: there's no problem with getting enough insulation value.
• 44:56
  Marlon Lynn: Our website is flora, F-L-O-R-A, lake, L-A-K-E, .us, so floralake.us.
• 45:09
  Marlon Lynn: And we are pricing online, and we actually had a client talk to us in Alaska.
• 45:14
  Marlon Lynn: We have a product called the View 750, and it has a 12 by 16 skylight on the top of it.
• 45:20
  Marlon Lynn: So there's a I, it is a beautiful architectural building.
• 45:25
  Marlon Lynn: That, that'd be a great product for Alaska with the northern lights and being able to g- see the stars above your bed at night.
• 45:32
  Marlon Lynn: That, that'd be a wonderful product.
• 45:33
  Brian Searl: Lindsay, do you have anything to add?
• 45:33
  Brian Searl: You've been so quiet.
• 45:34
  Brian Searl: You haven't said a word.
• 45:36
  Lindsey Crowley: Marlon he's doing all the heavy lifting for us today.
• 45:39
  Lindsey Crowley: I have to apologize for being late to the party.
• 45:43
  Lindsey Crowley: He he actually you touched on the permitting issues with pre-manufactured units and the I don't know if it was made clear about our products, but, it's the best of both worlds for us.
• 45:56
  Lindsey Crowley: We are pre-engineered, where our components are manufactured in a controlled environment to highly precise measurements, but because we flat pack to the site, we are still considered we are site-built.
• 46:10
  Lindsey Crowley: So we don't have a, a, a regulation against a site-built construction.
• 46:16
  Lindsey Crowley: We fit right into the site-built construction that municipalities like.
• 46:19
  Lindsey Crowley: So not only do neighborhoods like us because we're site-built, but so do banks.
• 46:24
  Lindsey Crowley: Banks they like to finance site-built products as well, the site-built they like the site-built aspect of our products as well.
• 46:32
  Lindsey Crowley: But I- I, what do you- appreciate the opportunity to jump in there, Brian, thank you.
• 46:36
  Jeff Hoffman: Okay.
• 46:36
  Jeff Hoffman: One quick question.
• 46:38
  Jeff Hoffman: You said the flooring is included.
• 46:40
  Jeff Hoffman: Is that a modular floor?
• 46:42
  Jeff Hoffman: And then how do we how do we set the foundation?
• 46:48
  Lindsey Crowley: Now for...
• 46:50
  Lindsey Crowley: I'm sorry, go ahead, Marlon.
• 46:51
  Marlon Lynn: Great question.
• 46:53
  Marlon Lynn: S- so our floor panel, our wall panel, and our roof panel are all the same product, so you get that consistency, but we actually set on top of either a, a helical foundation, a concrete-
• 47:09
  Jeff Hoffman: Okay
• 47:09
  Marlon Lynn: and steel pier.
• 47:11
  Marlon Lynn: We s- can set on a stem wall foundation.
• 47:14
  Marlon Lynn: Literally any kind of foundation that you need for your building site, we can attach that either with a, a welded condition or a bolted condition.
• 47:23
  Marlon Lynn: So we've got a ton of flexibility anywhere that you've got weird soil conditions We can get past the weird soil conditions and get into something that's more stable.
• 47:34
  Marlon Lynn: And then the, the best part, and we had this on our last job site build one of the plates didn't get put on the foundation in the right location.
• 47:44
  Marlon Lynn: We got the steel beams up.
• 47:46
  Marlon Lynn: We figured out that the level was off.
• 47:49
  Marlon Lynn: We unbolted the connector.
• 47:51
  Marlon Lynn: We put spacers in the connector, squared it right back up, got it nice, flat, straight, and square, and kept moving ahead.
• 47:58
  Marlon Lynn: So even in the future, if your soil conditions change or something moves, you can use that bolted connection point to really level the building back up and accommodate anything that happens to the ground under the building.
• 48:12
  Marlon Lynn: But it is completely a normal, financeable, site-built building and e- even though it's at a small scale.
• 48:21
  Jeff Hoffman: Yeah, I can I...
• 48:22
  Jeff Hoffman: There's areas that I work where we kinda have garbage land because of the topos.
• 48:30
  Jeff Hoffman: So I could see where if we can support the back we can walk into this unit, maybe save some space, and then backfill around it or something.
• 48:43
  Jeff Hoffman: But it might make unusable space usable because we're not...
• 48:49
  Jeff Hoffman: We're putting it on a structure already built.
• 48:52
  Jeff Hoffman: Might make it a little bit easier to construct in weird places.
• 49:00
  Marlon Lynn: Yeah, it's funny that you say that.
• 49:01
  Marlon Lynn: The site we had in Oklahoma the second time we went, they actually cut a, a small terrace for us, and the building is up eight and a half feet.
• 49:12
  Marlon Lynn: So we actually have another 500 square foot of living area under the unit that was just created for a outdoor living space.
• 49:20
  Marlon Lynn: You really get the both worlds in that condition.
• 49:22
  Marlon Lynn: But the owner ended up with 1,100 square feet instead of 500 square feet because it, it's elevated on steel piers.
• 49:29
  Marlon Lynn: So-
• 49:29
  Jeff Hoffman: Very interested in your product
• 49:31
  Marlon Lynn: tons of options, and there's no end of-
• 49:33
  Jeff Hoffman: Would love to connect after this and,
• 49:35
  Marlon Lynn: Cool
• 49:36
  Jeff Hoffman: do some more research on it.
• 49:38
  Brian Searl: All right.
• 49:38
  Brian Searl: Let's spend the last few minutes asking-
• 49:39
  Marlon Lynn: Yes, sir
• 49:39
  Brian Searl: each other questions.
• 49:40
  Brian Searl: So Marlon, do you have any questions for anybody else on the show besides me?
• 49:47
  Marlon Lynn: Y- I, I really have so loved the whole RV community.
• 49:54
  Marlon Lynn: I I'm, I wanna talk to John afterwards because I've I've had so many different experiences with trying to use each one of the the different kind of websites.
• 50:04
  Marlon Lynn: It just seems like there's such variation and I I'm interested to learn more about your product, John.
• 50:11
  John Donner: Yeah, for sure.
• 50:12
  John Donner: And likewise, it's funny when you were joking about oh, is there something that we could do software-wise we actually have been talking with our payment provider on financing because we've noticed that a number of camps that we work
• 50:23
  John Donner: with, of course we started with RVs, but a lot of them are actually, they have glamping operations, they have camps with cabins and stuff like this.
• 50:31
  John Donner: And so a lot of the time they end up building things out, and so they need proper financing.
• 50:36
  John Donner: And so we've been starting to look at that side of things a little bit more like, okay, can we actually start to help the development of these camps a little bit more.
• 50:44
  John Donner: And so yeah I would also love to pick your brain a little bit on that side as that's something we're starting to get into more.
• 50:50
  John Donner: So-
• 50:50
  Brian Searl: All right.
• 50:50
  Brian Searl: John, do you have any questions for anybody?
• 50:52
  John Donner: No, that's great.
• 50:58
  John Donner: Yeah, Jeff I was interested in if you had any experience with seeing, like you had mentioned the Blue Ocean Strategy, which great book by the way.
• 51:10
  John Donner: And I was wondering if you had any experience with like noticing trends over the last few decades of things that are similar to what's happening right now in AI, but for the campground space and for the outdoor space.
• 51:24
  John Donner: And if you saw any booms where there was a large shift and what was the shakeup from that?
• 51:28
  Jeff Hoffman: We've actually, yeah, we've been going through...
• 51:30
  Jeff Hoffman: there was the trend when when I first got into this business, there really were very few PMS systems.
• 51:38
  Jeff Hoffman: Ev- almost everybody was pen, paper, pins in a board.
• 51:43
  Jeff Hoffman: We, yeah, we, We still noticed.
• 51:46
  Jeff Hoffman: We modified and worked with the original Dis Re- Digital Res that was out of British Columbia and helped them design a system, and we used it across multiple properties.
• 51:59
  Jeff Hoffman: And we actually could- turned it into a server version for our internal use that I could look at the properties, and this was back in the late '80s and '90s and into the 2000s.
• 52:16
  Jeff Hoffman: That was great
• 52:19
  John Donner: So pre-campground master is what you're talking about
• 52:22
  Jeff Hoffman: Yeah, we were campground- Well, because-
• 52:23
  John Donner: Pre-CD
• 52:24
  Jeff Hoffman: rent manager for our mobile home parks is, had always been out there, but it was not really adaptable to the campground business.
• 52:33
  Jeff Hoffman: So we were looking for it and found DigRes.
• 52:36
  Jeff Hoffman: DigRes originally was designed for like hotels, and we talked with the owner there and had it changed.
• 52:46
  Jeff Hoffman: And, Brian, not to dispute it, but some of us in the campground industry have always tried to embrace technology to grow, but I do realize it's an industry of smaller single-property owners, but that's one of the directives I
• 53:04
  Jeff Hoffman: see changing, is we're getting more and more people that own multiple parks, and they need better information systems if they wanna stay on top of it.
• 53:16
  Jeff Hoffman: When I had multiple parks, I had to travel to all of my parks to really make sure what was going on.
• 53:22
  Jeff Hoffman: Now I can sit in my office, look at the videos of the park, read all of the, all the reservations, look at the financials, and other than if I wanna go count cash, I don't have to be at
• 53:34
  Jeff Hoffman: the properties at all.
• 53:37
  Jeff Hoffman: So that, that's changing.
• 53:40
  Jeff Hoffman: The nature of our business is changing.
• 53:43
  Jeff Hoffman: We're transitioning where investors have actually found the RV campground business But what they're also finding is that unlike a lot of the other investments they've been in, we are management intensive, more so than storage mobile home parks car
• 54:05
  Jeff Hoffman: washes, things like that.
• 54:07
  Jeff Hoffman: We are, have to be people-driven.
• 54:10
  Jeff Hoffman: We are similar in nature to the hotel business, but we're still different than the hotel business because we don't have pre-made, we're not site-built, this franchise builds this model of hotels, so everything that goes wrong is the same.
• 54:29
  Jeff Hoffman: The properties are the same.
• 54:31
  Jeff Hoffman: In the campground business, every property is unique.
• 54:35
  Brian Searl: Until Marlon takes over.
• 54:36
  Brian Searl: Just, it's just temporary, Jeff.
• 54:38
  Jeff Hoffman: Yeah and that's, that's what I've always told you is I tried to systematize and that was my whole goal, and I found out that it's a tough industry to systematize because demand is different in areas, the clients are
• 54:53
  Jeff Hoffman: different.
• 54:55
  Jeff Hoffman: It changes, so it's tough to commoditize a campground, and I think that's why I still love the business is because I'm trying to solve that puzzle.
• 55:06
  Brian Searl: All right we are out of time.
• 55:08
  Brian Searl: I wanna be cognizant of everybody's time here.
• 55:10
  Brian Searl: We're just a few minutes over, so I wanna go around and just final thoughts, Jeff, and then where can they learn more about Camp Strategy?
• 55:16
  Jeff Hoffman: You can look us up at campstrategy.com.
• 55:19
  Jeff Hoffman: We just rebuilt the website.
• 55:21
  Jeff Hoffman: It's supposed to be really interactive and awesome, so let me know if it isn't.
• 55:25
  Brian Searl: What do you mean supposed to be?
• 55:26
  Brian Searl: You haven't looked?
• 55:29
  Brian Searl: Okay.
• 55:30
  Brian Searl: Marlon, final-
• 55:31
  Jeff Hoffman: Why would I go-
• 55:33
  Brian Searl: Marlon Marlon-
• 55:34
  John Donner: He's already vibe coding.
• 55:34
  Jeff Hoffman: Yes.
• 55:35
  Brian Searl: Marlon, final thoughts and where can they learn you've already gave your website, but you can give it one more time if you want
• 55:42
  Marlon Lynn: Yeah, floralake.us.
• 55:45
  Marlon Lynn: We're just really honored to be able to be included today, and I really feel like we've got a product for folks in the industry to really rethink what campgrounds are and be able to provide a, a wider range
• 55:59
  Marlon Lynn: of product for folks that don't have campers or tents that really just wanna enjoy the outdoors.
• 56:04
  Marlon Lynn: So I think we can really help with different types of experiences.
• 56:07
  Brian Searl: Yeah, appreciate you being here.
• 56:08
  Brian Searl: Lindsey, do you have a different website or is it the same one?
• 56:10
  Lindsey Crowley: It's the same one.
• 56:11
  Lindsey Crowley: You can reach me through the website or you can email me at lindsey@floralake.us if you'd like to connect.
• 56:20
  Lindsey Crowley: But likewise just appreciate the opportunity to be here and to speak with everyone and welcome any any and all feedback and opportunity to communicate and learn more about how we could help each other.
• 56:32
  Brian Searl: Awesome.
• 56:32
  Brian Searl: Thanks, Lindsey.
• 56:33
  Brian Searl: Last but not least, John.
• 56:39
  John Donner: Yeah.
• 56:39
  John Donner: Brian, thank you so much and to everyone else.
• 56:41
  John Donner: Great conversation.
• 56:43
  John Donner: You can find us at Park With Us.
• 56:45
  John Donner: That's Park, P-A-R-K, With, W-I-T-H, .us.
• 56:50
  John Donner: And I can be reached at john@parkwithus.
• 56:53
  John Donner: And yeah, no, the only thing I'll leave everyone with is we're very excited for this next chapter of what the industry is gonna look like, because I think it's shifting a lot right now.
• 57:01
  John Donner: And there's a lot of cool ways for businesses like ourselves and like your all's to continue to make lives easier for campground owners.
• 57:09
  John Donner: So hopefully we can get a little bit more into the outdoors even though technology is bringing it outdoors.
• 57:14
  Brian Searl: Hopefully technology helps us do that.
• 57:16
  Brian Searl: It's not the only thing, right?
• 57:17
  Brian Searl: But that's the, the goal is not technology front and center-
• 57:20
  John Donner: Definitely
• 57:20
  Brian Searl: it's technology to help you connect better with your guests, be outside more, get away from that computer screen.
• 57:24
  Brian Searl: So thank you guys for joining us for another episode of MC Fireside Chats.
• 57:28
  Brian Searl: If you're not sick and tired of hearing from me, we have another live show called Outwired in about an hour with myself and Scott Bahr.
• 57:34
  Brian Searl: We're gonna be talking about data research, all kinds of other stuff.
• 57:37
  Brian Searl: And other than that, we will see you next week on another episode of MC Fireside Chats.
• 57:41
  Brian Searl: Take care, guys.
• 57:42
  Brian Searl: See you.
• 57:42
  Lindsey Crowley: Thanks, Brian.
• 57:43
  Marlon Lynn: Appreciate you.
• 57:43
  Jeff Hoffman: Thank you.
• 57:45
  Jeff Hoffman: See you later.