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Normally Podcast: The Good & The Bad of the VP Debate · Normally

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey, guys, got to have you back on normally the
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: show with normalist takes for when the news gets weird.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: I am Mary Catherine Ham.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: And I'm Carol Markowitz.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Well, we do have to talk about debate night because
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: it may be the last time that candidates are on
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: stage during this general election for a big TV audience.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Last night, vice presidential candidates Jadie Vance and Tim Walls
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: took the stage in New York, and we're going to
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: chat a little bit about how that went down, particularly
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: the parts that we think say something about the larger
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: race and what we have moving forward.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I think it was a great debate in a
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: lot of ways. I have some serious complaints about it too,
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: But I do like that they got into some issues
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: they were There wasn't any yelling, I like, no yelling.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: Generally polite and very personable, right. I think that that's
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: the way it should be. Problems with the debate is
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: that it's all on democratic terms. It's not even just
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: the biased moderators, right. These debates happen on democratic issues.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: The only mention of the open border was about separating
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: families January sixth. Questions in every single debate, like how
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: much more can we hear about it. Zero mention of
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: our education collapse because Biden and Harris let Randy Winegarden
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: rewrite CDC policy and keep schools closed during COVID and
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: we still have not recovered from that. So I think
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: these are issues that you know, if this was a
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: Democratic primary debate, fine, but it's not. And that is
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: really kind of my central problem with these debates and
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: why I don't know that Republicans should be agreeing to
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: these kinds of debate formats in the future. These are
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: far left moderators. It's on left stations, and Republicans and
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: moderates get very little out of these debates. Again, if
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: it was just Democratic primary, that's one thing. It's not,
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: and I don't think that it should be the format
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: going forward.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: Well, and there's also only one set of voters getting
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: things out of it if you only address things from
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: one point of view. Although I will say lest anyone
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: think that our complaints about the moderators indicate that JD.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: Vance did not have a good performance, Yeah, that's incorrect.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: He gave about as close to a tour de force
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: in modern debating as you're going to get from a
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: candidate and One of the advantages of having a candidate
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: who is smart, deft, has the facts down, is relating
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: to the audience and the moderators and his opponent in
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: a nice way, is that every question can be turned
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: into a question that he wants to answer. And that
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: is basically what happened the entire night, where he was
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: sort of shifting, but shifting in a way that went
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: two kitchen table issues that went from a really good
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: example is the hurricane question. And actually, we'll just play
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: a club, but here's the hurricane question.
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: Let's turn out to Hurricane Helene. The storm could become
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: one of the deadliest on record. More than one hundred
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: and sixty people are dead and hundreds more are missing.
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: Scientists say climate change makes these hurricanes larger, stronger, and
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: more deadly because of the historic rainfall. Senator Vance. According
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: to CBS News polling, seven to ten Americans and more
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: than sixty percent of Republicans under the age of forty
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: five favor the US taking steps to try and reduce
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: climate change. Senator, what responsibility would the Trump administration have
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: to try and reduce the impact of climate change. I'll
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: give you two minutes to me.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: This came off as near sociopathic to address the hurricane,
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: where the dead have still not been recovered, much less buried.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: Many people are still being rescued. The search and rescue
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: attempts are underway and will be underway for a very
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: long time. Recovery will take years. And they're like, but
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: could we do a fantasy carbon tax one day?
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: I just that's not the question in the moment unless
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: you are a moderator or a far left ideologue. Yeah.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: Vance was like, let me talk about the people who
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: are actually affected.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he did fantastic, And I, you know, I agree
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: again that question is for a Democratic primary audience where
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: they could come up with all kinds of lalla land
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: plans for the future where they're going to retrofit every
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: single building in America, and they're, you know, we're gonna
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: all stop using all fossil fuels, while China will continue
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: and India will continue, and all the other countries that
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: are actually, you know, perhaps causing the problems will continue
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: to use fossil fuels. So I, you know, I again
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: think that the questions were awful, but Vance did amazing
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: Walls was very very nervous, visibly nervous. He talked super quickly,
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: and then the moderators of course couldn't help but editorialize
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: to help him. But you know, in the end, Vance's
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: favorables went way up after this debate, which of course
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: makes sense. He put on just a fantastic performance. A
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: CNN poll had his favorables up by twenty, CBS had
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: his favorables up by nine. One of the men came
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: off as incredibly weird and it wasn't JD. Vance, And
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: it wasn't just because Wall said he was friends with
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: school shooters.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah. A point that Guy Benson made, which I think
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: is important, is that the school shooter line is one
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: where you're like, did I just hear that? And it
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: turned out it did. Now what he meant, of course,
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: that he is he friends with the survivors and the
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: families of those who have died in school shootings. We
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: can all goof on that a bitstand that it's a misstatement.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: What's not a misstatement are his lies about his service.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: Are his lies about being in Hong Kong during Tanneman Square,
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: which he was completely flat footed on last night. That's
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: something that's been reported where it turns out he was
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: home in Nebraska during the Tanneman Square right right when
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: he said he was in Hong Kong, and this is documented,
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: and this news was out well before the debate. He
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: could have anticipated a question on it and come up
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: with an answer, but instead he froze because the answer
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: is he lied about it, and he just said, well,
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: I'm a knucklehead, and that's not sufficient even for those
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: moderators who were big, who were big fans. And that's
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: another way like democrats I think are disadvantaged sometimes by
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: media kid gloves, because he didn't anticipate the question because
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: he thought they'd be nicer to him in that moment.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: I think he even got a follow up, which we
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: don't have the hold of funerals. We don't have a
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: hold of funeral for the idea of the follow up
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: question apparently, and I don't think he anticipated that. And
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: he hasn't practiced taking tough questions.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: Well, he doesn't feel like he has to write all
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: the interviewers are going to be on his side and
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: want him to win and have him portrayed in the
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: best possible light. You know, we talked about it last episode,
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: but Kamala Harris has only done two interviews and one
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: of them was with an interviewer who doesn't think she
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: should have to answer difficult questions. So of course these
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: people are out of practice, and of course they don't
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: think that they're going to get tough questions. And it showed,
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: it really showed, it really did.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: A question that Vance has had to answer many times,
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: of course, is on his changing views on Trump, and
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: because he's been asked it every time he's sat down,
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: and I would note he's even asked it when he
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: sits down at Fox. Hannity has asked him that question.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: Those journalists who people believe or allied with Trump and
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: Vance have asked tougher questions of Trump and Vance than
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: liberal but allegedly objective journalists have asked of the other side.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: And I think it would help them if they asked
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: sure of.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: Course questions well or going through a primary, right, going
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: through a primary gets a candidate ready for the general
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: election fight. Kamala Harris didn't have to do that, and
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: again it shows. So I also want to add, obviously
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: you're right that it was a misspeak about the school shooter. Friends,
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: and of course Guy Benson is you know, all of
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: our moral compass because he really, really is. But think
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: about if this happened on other side, for sure, jd
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: Vance friends with school shooters. I mean, it would just
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: be the ad Donald Trump, and I read articles all
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: the time where he's literally accused of saying there will
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: be a bloodbath if he doesn't get elected, and that's
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: just not what he said. So there's so many lies
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: like that constantly being told about the right. But we
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: and correctly again live up to the guy events and
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: standard and we say Tim Walls not actually friends of
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: school shooters. But you know, I'd love that same grace
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: for our side as well.
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: Oh I would too. The one that the one that
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: always gets me is it wasn't a misspeak, but it
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: was the idea that they hyped that Beyonce was going
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: to come to the DNC. And yeah, just imagine a
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: situation like that is an embarrassment. That's just flat out
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: an embarrassment. If you say Beyonce's coming to your birthday
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: party and she doesn't come to your birthday party, that's
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: embarrassing for you. The other kids make fun of you, yes,
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: but it was not treated that way because it was
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: just like, well, I guess it got a lot of
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: eyeballs on this like that's okay, and that's okay.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: Lying is okay if it gets a lot of eyeballs
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: for democrats.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: Was there a moment, Carol that really stood out to
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: you that that matters for the race moving forward, either
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: symbolically or for what actually was said.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: So you touched on this, But the moment for me
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: was the Tianaman Square answer, And Mary Catherine and I
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: said we would talk about our key moments of the debate,
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: and we didn't tell each other what our moments would be,
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: so we'll see what if we have the same one
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: or not. But Tim Walls admitting that he lied about
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: being in Tianaman Square, and for the youngsters listening, it
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: was pro democracy protests in China in nineteen eighty nine.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: It was a really big deal. Many people were killed
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: and these protests were ultimately put down, very symbolic of
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: people who want to be free around the world. And
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: Tim Walls said that he was there. He was in
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: Hong Kong, right, right, Sorry, he was in Hong Kong
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: when this happened. Now he's telling us he was riding
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: his bike in Nebraska when he was a kid, and
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: we're like, why are you telling us this with the
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: long answer didn't go anywhere, and it was awkward, and
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: it showed that he had lied multiple times. This isn't
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: like he said at one time in passing. He did
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: not misspeak. This was purposeful. And it goes to the
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: same thing as him lying about his military service. It
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: wasn't one time, it was many times, and he continues
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: to get a passed on it. But last night Americans
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: got to see him truly fumble with this lie. And
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: I think it is going to make a difference because
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: this midwestern everyman that they were trying to betray him
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: as just quite didn't work last night when he had
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: to admit to lying about this, And so that was
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: my big moment of the night. It shattered the tim walls.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: You know, persona that the Democrats have worked so hard
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: to build up with keeping him from the media, and
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: I don't know that he recovers from that.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: We'll be right back on normally. I think both candidates
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: violated the narrative last night, right Vance was personable, seemed likable,
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: so normal, smart, normal, And they're still trying desperately as
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: people tweeting like why did he keep calling his children beautiful?
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: That's weird. It's not it's not weird.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: It's not weird at all.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: That's not weird at all. Speaking with just a side
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: side note, whatever Usha Vance was wearing, I wanted to
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: see more of it. Yes, she looked amazing and my
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: I think my moment actually and this is a this
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: is a pet issue of mine, but I also think
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: it's very very important for the country.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: What it's going to be is I.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: Know Tim Walls betraying once again that he neither cares
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: about nor knows anything about the first event.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: Uh that fire in a movie theater. Screaming fire in
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: a movie theater.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: I thought of you, So I want to do I
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: want to actually play first a clip on him talking
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: about hate speech and misinformation. So let's play that.
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: But you guys attack us for not believing in democracy,
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: the most sacred right under the United States, Democracy is
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: the first amendment. You yourself have said, there's no first Amendment
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: right to misinformation. Kamala Harris wants to threaten how to
• 13:09
  Speaker 4: be government and big tech to silence people from speaking
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: their minds. That is a threat to democracy that will
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: long outlive this present political moment. I would like democrats
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: and Republicans to both reject censorship. Let's persuade one another,
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: Let's argue about ideas, and then let's come together afterwards.
• 13:25
  Speaker 5: You can't yell fire in a crowded theaters. That's the test.
• 13:28
  Speaker 5: That's the Supreme Court tsk Tim fire in a crowded theater.
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: You guys wanted to kick people off of Facebook for
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: saying that Toddler shouldn't floor to fire and a crowded theater.
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: That is criticizing the policies of the government, which is
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: the right of every America.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: So that is Tim Walls, who wants to be the
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: Vice president of the United States of America saying there
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: is a hate speech exception to the First Amendment. That
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: is just absolutely not real. That is ignorant. And the
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: problem is that that says to me, as he has
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: said before, that he feels he has the power to
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: remove hate speech such that he deems it and to
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: remove misinformation and disinformation. This is a problem we've run into,
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: certainly during the COVID era many times where the government
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: has decided there's certain information we're not allowed to talk about, right,
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: and I think it is very dangerous. Dare I say
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: it to democracy for the federal government to say, I
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: don't know, collude with social media platforms, to say that
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: a true story during the twenty twenty election about Hunter
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: Biden's laptop is not a true story, and to thrash
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: it in service with the Democratic ticket. I think that's bad.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: I think also get YouTube to remove doctors talking about
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: how face masks don't prevent the spread of COVID that
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: was removed from YouTube. I mean, things like that are
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: just you know, you can call it whatever you want,
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: but it's censorship. It's against the First Amendment. And Tim
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: Walls tried to repeat the hate each thing last night.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: It was during the din of the debate, so I
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: don't know that people really heard it, but he tried
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: to say not hate speech. When you know when Van
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: said about the First Amendment, and he says it's not
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: protected by hate, she just not protected.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: He also said, as you note this other pet peeve
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: of mine, let's play the clip.
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: I would like Democrats and Republicans to both reject censorship.
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: Let's persuade one another, Let's argue about ideas, and then
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: let's come together afterwards.
• 15:30
  Speaker 5: You can't yell fire in a crowded theater that's the test.
• 15:33
  Speaker 5: That's the Supreme Court test.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: I want to give a class on Shink and Brandenburg
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: in the First Amendment and yelling fire in a crowded theater,
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: which is not a Supreme Court test for speech. It
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: comes from an overturned case. And let me just briefly
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: describe it. Because lefties are always saying you can't y'all
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: fire in a crowded theater. That was a phrase used
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: in a decision from Oliver Wendell Holmes, where he said
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: it was the case was about the Socialist Party of
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: Philadelphia distributing flyers opposing the draft during World War One,
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: So like this was a phrase used against your socialist
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: pacifist buds right by saying the First Amendment has its
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: limits and this is one of them. And that was
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: luckily later overturned. But the fact that this is sort
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: of in the geist, yes, is a problem because it's
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: not true that you can't yell a crowdit theater, and
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: they use it just as a offhanded, very casual way
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: to limit what you're allowed to say. It also just
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: betrays ignorance and a lack of care about this issue,
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: and it makes me upset.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I understand that libertarians exploded on X last night.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: As soon as you said it, it was like, I
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: think Matt Walsh sorry, Matt Welsch said, you know, fire
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: in a crowdit theater drink. Yeah, it's concerning that the
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: VP candidate is not into free speech and that the
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: moderators and media people have very little problem with that.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: I'll have to say one more thing about the debate
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: is the Tim Walls is kind of the future of
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: the Democrats, right, That's usually what the vice presidential candidate is.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: And I think most people will say, yeah, maybe jd.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: Vance is the future of the Republican Party, and that
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: makes sense. He's young, he's vibrant, he's really smart. Perhaps
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: he is next in line, right, Walls is older and
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: kind of shows that the Democrats really don't have much
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: of a bench. Who is up after this election, you know,
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: win or lose? Right, So let's say Kamala wins Walls
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: is the next candidate up after her.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: Questionable if she loses.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: Walls is definitely not the next candidate up. So who
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: is it? And it's interesting again that the Republicans, who
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: are technically normally seen as the older party, have a
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: young vibrant bench. You know, obviously, I think my Governor
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: Ron DeSantis is on it. Jd Vance obviously on it.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: Lots of young candidates to potentially, you know, the governor
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: of Virginia. Obviously, we have a lot of people and
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: they really don't well.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: And I think in this case, and there might be
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: some buyer's remorse here, the young vibrant bench. Josh Shapiro,
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: governor of Pennsylvania, was passed over because the frankly left
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: wing of the party that is largely anti Semitic and
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: definitely anti Israel might have had a problem. They did
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: with him being on the ticket.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: Right, you saw kind of the outcry when he was
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: being considered, and it was obvious because again the Democrats,
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: whatever they end up doing on Israel, what they say
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: on Israel is often quite close to correct.
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: I don't think Tim Walls has ever said anything different
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: than Jos Shapiro has said on Israel. So it really
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: was the fact that he was Jewish and that Democratic
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: voters were going to revolt. He would have been so
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: much better. Last night, I was just thinking about how
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: lucky Republicans are to have dodged that, And you're right,
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: maybe I'm wrong. Maybe that that is their bench, but
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: that is a fairly small bench well.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: And it's telling that he was passed over despite his
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: obvious skill and obvious appeal in this must win swing stakes.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: Right, That's like they need Pennsylvania like.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: That, Like you're from Pennsylvania and you're really good, and
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: they're like, pass, that's for us. Yeah, So yeah, I
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: do think that that signals something about them too. I
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: don't do we think this matters. I saw tweet or
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: something on substack. I believe from Andrew Sullivan, who you know,
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: is hard to pin down ideologically, to to put it lightly,
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: but it's not a man of the right, and he
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: said that the Vance performance said to him, if Vans
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: were at the top of the ticket, he'd be comfortable
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: voting for him. So to me, that is like, if
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: it's giving people a little bit of comfort about the
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: top of the ticket that they might be nervous about,
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: which is a much smaller ask than thinking that Vance
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: should be at the top of the ticket, that could
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: make a small difference, and a small difference is a
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: lot in a very close election.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: I think it could. I don't know that I believe
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: Andrew Sullivan you know, I think it's a bit fine
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: reasons not to support that ticket anyway, but it's.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: A bit changeable over the years.
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: Yes, you know, I.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: Would say Andrew Sullivan is the very first like media
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: figure that I gave money to. He had like a
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: tip jar back in you know, the early two thousands,
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: and I that tip jar for ten bucks, and I
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: still kind of regret it.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: He's been on a journey.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, he's a great writer, he's an interesting character.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: I just yeah, the hard to pin down for better
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: or I don't believe he'd vote for JD. Vans.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: I just don't. But I think he's emblematic of maybe
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: people who have discomfort with the ticket and could be
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: won over by a very, very commanding performance, which is
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: what that was.
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: I hope Trump lives a long, happy life, but you
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: have to note that he is getting up there in age.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: There is some chance of JD. Vance becoming our next
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: president before any terms are up again. I hope that
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: doesn't happen. I hope he lives, you know, to one
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: hundred and fifty, as the Jews say, but it's all possible.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: And look, we just had a president drop out of
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: the presidential race because he was simply too old. Who
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: your VP is suddenly matters in a way that it
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: didn't matter before. I think this debate was one that
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: people watched because BPS matter more today.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I would have loved a question, by the way,
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: like say, your president, I don't know his brain's not working.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: What is your constitutional duty as you view it in
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: that moment? And how would you go about addressing that issue?
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: Just right?
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: Apropos of nothing, just yeah, just asking asking for a
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: friend whose name is Joe Biden, Kama Harrison. We'll be
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: right back in a second. On normal. I want to
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: talk a little bit about our in case you missed it, Yeah,
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: which is on Thursdays.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: We do in case you missed it, an undercovered story
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: that we feel should be getting more attention.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: And this is a bit debate related in that I
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: actually checked it. I fact checked myself, Carol k through twelve.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: Education has not been mentioned in any of.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: The bids, right because who cares about kids? Like January sixth,
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: Let's talk about January sixth somewhere well.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: And it's you know, many things can be important. But sure,
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: I do think that the idea that we had a
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: huge number of students in this country K through twelve
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: just not attend school for about two years eighteen months, right, well.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: And it was the poorest kids also. It was you know,
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: I talk about this a lot, but when I was
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: living in Brooklyn and I was living in a very
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: far left area park slope, everybody around me who didn't
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: say a word about school openings went to private school,
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: got tutors for their kids, moved to their beach house,
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: and sent the kids to school there, got a pod
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: figured it out because they were wealthy and they could
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: do that. But the poorest kids in the country did
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: not get to go to school for a very long time,
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: and we have not recovered from that.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they paid a huge price. They will continue paying
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: it for probably a decade or more because you have
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: to figure out how to call back all of this
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: learning loss. It's a giant problem. It's a giant problem
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: that touches people's lives. And because largely Democrats and teachers'
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: unions are too blame for it, there's not discussion about it.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: But I think normal people look at the performance they're
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: getting from their education product and wonder, what are you
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: doing for me? I'm paying a lot of taxes. That's right,
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: but this is not working out for me.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: So average math scores fell by nine points between twenty
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: and twenty three. Reading scores fell by four points. And
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: these numbers are far higher in some places and far
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: lower in other places like Florida.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: The New York.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: Times famously spent several articles tearing apart the Orthodox Jewish
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: asivism in New York as having weak education, without ever
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: noting the public schools in their own city and throughout
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: the country that are doing even worse.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: No.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, at the debates, and you're right, it's because Trump
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: and Vance will just say, let parents take the money
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: for their kids out of these failing schools and send
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: them wherever they want, and Harrison Walls will say, no, don't.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: And that's not enough for the moder readers.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, can I on this same subject and we can
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: talk real quick about maybe our tips for parents getting
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: their kids to read. An Atlantic piece that's certain, Oh yeah, previews,
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: how bad this could get in the future. An Atlantic
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: piece this week talks about how elite college students can't
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: read books. Carol. Now, you and I grew up in
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: the eighties and nineties, and I feel like This was
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: a recurring after school special type very special episode of
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: Boy Meets World where you'll find out that someone's illiterate.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: Yep, we just watched a league of their own and
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: the girl can't find her name on the list because
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: she can't read. I look at my kids, like see this.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: Well, so now it's a little different, which is that
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: these kids are going to Colombia and a little different.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: What has happened is, look, I think Colombia is probably
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: recruiting for the wrong things. But essentially it looks like
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: kids on their devices, kids distracted by many things. Kids
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: not taught to read full books during middle and high
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: school are ending up in college where they're supposed to
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: study literature and they are absolutely unable to do so.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: It says, failing to complete a fourteen line poem without
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: succumbing to distraction suggests a familiar explanation for the decline,
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: which is devices. And then there's a quote. It's changed
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: expectations about what's worthy of attention. Being bored has become
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: a natural. Reading books even for pleasure can't compete with
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: TikTok instagram YouTube. In nineteen seventy six, about forty percent
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: of high school seniors said they had read at least
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: six books for fun in the previous year, compared with
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: eleven point five percent who hadn't read any. By twenty
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: twenty two, the percentages had flipped. Maybe does this happened?
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: We let this happen.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: It was a lot of Yes, it's the distractions and
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: all of that. But the kids are passing English, and
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: they're passing because the teachers are being.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: Told just pass them, just pass them.
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: Well.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: At Harvard, yeah, great. Inflation is like seventy plus percent
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: are making a's awful while doing much less work. There
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: was an interview with one There's a lot of anecdotes
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: in here because it's hard to nael down data on this,
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: but one ap English teacher in Atlanta said that she
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: used to assign fourteen books a year. She's down to
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: six or seven. They simply can't do it right and
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: it is disturbing. A couple of professors told me that
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: their students see reading books as akin to listening to
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: vinyl records, something that a small psychn culture mays. They're
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: back in. I know this is what Maybe we should
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: make them during cool something that a small subculture may
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: still enjoy, but that's mostly a relic of an earlier time.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, my fourteen year old, who reads these like
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: gigantic books and bullies her brothers into reading two is
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: super into vinyl records, So maybe they're related.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: That we should code it as like vinyl record cool. Yeah,
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: my kids read several books cover to cover a week.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: In fact, I wish I read as much as them.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: I still come to the devices more than they do
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: because I'm allowed to and they have strict strictures that
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: I put on them. Yeah, but I find this like
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: pretty disturbing because these are the high level kids who
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: had the resources to get through the pandemic. Then you've
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: got a much worse problem with those who did not
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: have the income and the resources and the flexibility to
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: deal with the lack of school for a year and
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: a half.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: I just all of that is we give these kids
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: a too easy path, and I, you know, I'm guilty
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: of it myself. Obviously. My kids do use screens, but
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: it's super limited and there's no TikTok in our house,
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: nothing like that. They're not allowed to use screens outside,
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: which has become so prevalent. I not just tea my
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: teen daughter and her. You know, teenagers using on their phones.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: I see all the time we live in Florida. People
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: we go to the beach. People kids on their iPads
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: on the beach, at the beach, at the beach, or
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: in restaurants like where when the kids were little and
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: we went out to eat or something, maybe at the
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: end when they're melting down, you'd hand them a phone
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: to watch, you know, Sesame Street. Now the kids sit
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: down at the restaurant and the parents hand out the
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: iPads to everybody, so it's the whole dinner. I just
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: think we've gotten to a really, really bad place with this,
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: and I see some change on this. The Anxious Generation
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: by Jonathan Hate has become a book that a lot
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: of schools are recommending to parents, and they're limiting how
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: much kids are allowed to use screens during schools as well,
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: which is a great step forward. Also, I have to
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: say that this is like tangentially related, but the fact
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: that again the teachers just pass these kids is as
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: a huge problem. But one thing like I learned moving
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: from New York to Florida. For example, in New York
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: there's gifted and talented education, and Florida has something similar
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: as well gifted education. So in New York, my fifth
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: grade daughter would be learning sixth grade stuff, right, but
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: they would test her at her state test would be
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: on fifth grade stuff, so they would be like, oh,
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: look at this gifted program. Everybody's doing so amazing.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, they're.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: Learning a year ahead, but they're testing a year behind.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: In Florida, they test you on the year that you're learning,
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: and so you might have numbers that aren't quite as
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: amazing as New York, for example, but they're actually being
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: tested on harder material. So things like that, I just
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: think we've gotten We've got to get back to rigor
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: and making things hard for kids. It helps them. It
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: helped them, and we don't want to have kids who
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: can't read full books when they get to our elite colleges.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: In Northern Virginia, by the way, they just like sort
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: of took a pass on testing for a while, so
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: you can't apples to apples anything for the pandemic and
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: post pandemic, which was on purpose so that they can
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: hide the ball. And I would say, just for my
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: I think you and I have the same tech on
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: taking our kids to restaurants and training them up from
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: a young age. I start. I trained them at waffle
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: house because like somebody is having a fight behind the
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: counter itself, anybody's going to be bothered by my children.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: So they learned slowly to gain that skill. I also
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: when I homeschooled my kids during the pandemic because we
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: couldn't get back into physical school and they were too
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: young to put on zoom.
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: I just want to say, this is very different. Mary
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: Kathine homeschooled her kids. She did not zoom, butler her kids.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: She did not like a lot of people think that
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: they homeschooled their kids during the pandemic. You did not.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: You did something else, you did online school, but you
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: Mary Katherine actually homeschool.
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: I did.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: But here's the people would be like, oh my gosh,
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: I could never do it, and I was like, it's
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: actually easier than so much lorier, right. But the thing
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: that I did that gave me hope, and that I
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: think is like just key for anybody who wants your
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: kids to be readers. I just told myself, keep it simple.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: I'm going to read to my six year old and
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: she's going to read to me. And it was rocky
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: and it was hard, and we did it every single
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: day because that was like the little thing I knew
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: I could do, and man, it opens the door to
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: everything else. It really truly does.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, I mean it's not actually rocket science, but
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: our schools have moved so far away from it that,
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: you know, school choice is. I super support school choice,
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: but I also support destroying the current system in public
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: schools and remaking it with something saner and better and
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: it's useful.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: Really not performing on that happy note, Thank you so much.
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: For joining us on this episode of Normally. We air
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: every Tuesday and Thursday. Please please subscribe, Please tell your friends,
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: Please have a safe weekend and be normal.