Latest / Called to Serve / Carol Ann McGibbon

Transcript

Carol Ann McGibbon · Called to Serve

0:01
Hello and welcome. This is called To Serve, a
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podcast where we share stories from women who have been
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ordained by the Canadian Baptists of Atlantic Canada.
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We have spoken with almost 100 pastors, chaplains,
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missionaries, and community leaders as we learn what it's
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like to be a woman in ministry. If you haven't heard our
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exciting news, Called to Serve, the book is coming out later
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this year and the book will feature stories from 14 ordained
0:28
women in ministry along with some new introductory material
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and a forward written by the current CBAC Executive Minister,
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Renee Mcvicker. If you'd like to win a free
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copy, e-mail Called to Serve at acadiau.ca by March 31st with
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the subject line free book. That e-mail address is in our
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episode description as well. Please share this draw with
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anyone in your circles who would be encouraged and challenged by
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these stories of women in ministry.
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As we need your help to get the word out about Called to Serve.
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Today, you'll be hearing from Carol Anne Mcgibbon.
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Carol Anne was ordained in 1984 at Germaine Street Baptist
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Church in St. John, NB.
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She pioneered urban ministry programs in both Nova Scotia and
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Chicago, enjoying a long career with SCOOP, the Seminary
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Consortium for Urban Pastoral Education.
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In this episode, Carol Anne describes her deep commitment to
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urban ministry and social justice and shares an incredible
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story about a movement of the Holy Spirit that happened at her
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examining council. My name is Carol Anne Mcgibbon
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and I was born in St. John, NB.
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My parents were very active members in Central Baptist
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Church, very involved in Sunday School, teaching the Deacon's
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board, missionary groups, and so my first memory was being quite
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small and being taken to Central Baptist every Sunday, and Doctor
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Abner Langley was the pastor at Central Baptist at that point.
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When I was 10 years old, my parents moved to Rossay, and it
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was Rossay Baptist Church that really became the formative
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congregation in my life. I had the good fortune of being
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in a small congregation where everybody was involved with the
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lives of each other and extraordinarily supportive
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children. When I was 14 years old, I was
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attending a camp and there were people making the decision to
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have faith in Christ and for me it was a very rational,
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intellectual, belief based decision.
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And then went on to be baptized at Rossi Baptist Church.
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I was fairly introverted as a young person.
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I actually put some thought into how could I serve God and do it
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in a way that I didn't have to put myself out in front of
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people. But when I was a teenager, some
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very important things happened. Don and Ruth Frazier, who were
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missionaries to Bolivia, started attending Rossi Baptist Church,
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and at the same time Byron and Lorraine Fenwick were involved
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in ministry in the Saint John area.
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Both couples got very involved with the youth work in our
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church and began to do some really innovative things.
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They developed through the youth group, A-Team of young people
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who would accompany them doing workshops in churches throughout
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the Maritime provinces, working with youth.
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And I was part of the team that they recruited.
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They mentored us and put us in leadership positions, had us
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lead Bible studies, and over a period of time, both couples
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began to talk to me about my gifts ministry.
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At first I was very, very taken back by it.
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I knew I wanted to serve God, but I thought I determined the
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very clear path it would feel comfortable to me through
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nursing. Going into direct ministry did
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not feel comfortable. Particularly at that time.
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There were very few models of women serving in churches, and
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the atmosphere around a woman being called to ministry was
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negative, to put it mildly. And so I didn't know whether I
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had the courage to do it. It took a couple of years to
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come to the conclusion that I did have a call.
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And having a call did not necessarily require one to be
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comfortable with it. As a matter of fact, most calls
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are uncomfortable. And so I went down to Acadia
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Divinity College and met with Abner Langley, who was president
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of Acadia, my first interview with him, went into his office
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and sat down and we began to talk.
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He said, you know, I have some very good memories of you.
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You know, I said, really Sir? He said, yes, I used to do
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pastoral visits in your home and I would end up feeding you a
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bottle and holding you on my lap until you fell asleep.
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It wasn't quite the image I was hoping to portray as a potential
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pre theology student, but anyway, that's where we began.
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He was very kind and he was very supportive of my call.
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And I think it took a particular kind of porridge to support such
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a young person's call. It was a woman.
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So that's the course I chose to take.
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I was accepted into nursing school.
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My mother about had a fit that I chose to turn that down and go
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to university and head towards ministerial work.
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Both my parents were very concerned and it was out of
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love. They knew it would not be an
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easy road and there would be a lot of rejection and a lot of
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obstacles to overcome, and they didn't want that for me.
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But once the call grips you, there's no turning back.
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It's a matter of integrity, matter of faith.
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And from the beginning, the faculty at Acadia were nothing
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but supportive. Doctor Cherry was incredibly
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personally supportive to me. 90% of the time I was the only woman
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in the class and he worked with me as he did with any other of
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the male students in the class. It was very heartening.
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The year between finishing up my undergrad work and going into
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seminary, A good friend of mine had a summer internship at
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Advocate Harbor and it was normal for a theology student to
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recommend the person who was to follow after them.
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The Deacons Board at Advocate Harbor took the recommendations
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very seriously, and so my friend recommended me.
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He convinced the Deacons board that they could be ahead of a
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very important trajectory in the Atlantic Baptist Convention by
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having a woman serve as interim pastor during the summer.
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Now, Needless to say, the trajectory was probably 30 years
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down the road. But I went down and interviewed
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and they accepted me, which was a minor miracle in itself, but I
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don't think they knew what they were getting into.
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The first night I got down there, I was terrified.
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I mean, it was at night. There was no one there to greet
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me, but the keys to the Parsonage was under a flower
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pot. So I let myself in and I was
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just filled with trepidation, feeling that I was so over my
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head. The reality of my audacity was
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coming home to roost. So I walked over to the church.
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There were a couple of lights on and it was very small, simple
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church and I went to the front and stood behind the pulpit.
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I was just overwhelmed with what a sacred space this was and how
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many people who have been called to serve had stood there
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ministering to the congregation over the decades.
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And so I started praying out loud and asked for God's grace
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and help and prayed that I would do nothing that would in any way
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hurt the congregation or diminish the ministry that had
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happened there. So I finished my prayer, and I
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heard a voice from the back saying, my dear girl, the head
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of the deacon's board, he had been in the background the
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entire time, and he gave me the most wonderful blessing, which
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was the permission to fail. He said this church has been in
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existence for over 100 years, and this congregation is a
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sturdy lot. They've endured ministries of
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every kind, good, bad, and indifferent.
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We can survive a summer with you.
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And we want you to know that your heart is in the right
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place. And as long as that's in place,
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God will honor what you do. So feel free to try, feel free
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to explore, feel free to do what you feel God's calling you to do
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in this context. And by the way, our first act
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will be to get you a fishing crate that you can stand on
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because I couldn't see you behind the pulpit light.
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So with that beautiful benediction, I entered into a
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truly wonderful summer where I did struggle and it was hard,
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but I felt the grace of God and I felt even more so the love and
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the grace of the congregation. It was a true confirmation of my
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calling to ministry. I stayed until October.
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The parsney told me had a wood stove and no furnace, so I got
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frozen out. But I didn't go back to seminary
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after that. I had to pay for my education on
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my own. I was the first person in my
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family to go to university, so there was no funds available to
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me. So I knew I had to work my way
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through. I got a job working in the
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provincial hospital in Saint John in a new program that had
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been initiated with people who had severe disabilities.
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A lot of these people who were in the provincial hospital were
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basically warehoused. They just lived their lives
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there with no opportunity to learn, to be enabled to function
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on a higher level if possible. And this program was a program
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that initiated that kind of education and support and care.
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And once again, I got a bit over my head.
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I had one course in psychology, I'm afraid, and they were hiring
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people with master's level, but I was pretty convinced I could
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learn. So I showed up every day for two
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weeks because I couldn't get past the receptionist with my
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resume. So I showed up at the director's
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office every day, and I sat there from 9:00 to 5:00 until
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she finally interviewed me and she gave up.
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She put me on probation and then hired me. 78 was my first year
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seminary and after my first year there was a growing interest in
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urban ministry emerging in Saint John.
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Reverend Dreyer and the pastor of Central Baptist, they decided
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to join together to create a program called Baptist Inner
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City Ministries. And they hired Rick Tobias to
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direct it. And he hired a team of people to
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work with him. And I was one of the people he
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hired. He met with me and said, we're
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going to be doing this for the summer.
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What focus would you like your ministry to take?
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And I've been working my first year a lot with prison ministry.
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And I said, I think I would like to explore the possibility of
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chaplaincy in the women's section of Saint John County
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Jail and see if there's any programming going on at all for
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them. And so that's what I did.
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There was no invitation to come into the jail.
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There was no welcoming committee.
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They were quite aghast that this young woman shows up and starts
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ignoring the possibility of doing chaplaincy in the jail.
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And they told me if I lasted a week they would consider letting
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me in some more. It went by a week to week basis,
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but over the course of the summer, I was able to initiate
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some excellent programming. I mean, women could be held
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there a year less a day for shoplifting, all kinds of minor
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offenses before they even got to trial.
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And there was nothing but sitting in cells.
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There's no exercise. And so I started slowly
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implementing some programs. I was allowed to take out women
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who had a record of good behavior to the YMCA for
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swimming. I was able on Sundays to take
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them to church, those who are interested.
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I got a nutrition program going for those women who had children
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and had no idea about nutrition or cooking for their child.
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So I got several programs going and the rate of violent
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incidences, and there were quite a few in there went down.
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And so the jail came up with a budget and hired me on 1/2 time
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basis to continue on that next year.
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So I had a year of seminary and then I took another year off to
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do this ministry. I also worked with the Salvation
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Army's Evangeline Home for young women who were troubled in Saint
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John and the Interprovincial home program for girls.
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So I had sort of St. plates in the air all around young women
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who were in the criminal system. I did that for a full year.
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In the meantime, Rick continued on with Baptist Inner City
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Ministries because it was a significant success.
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That's the only word for it. It had addressed the needs of
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battered women, homeless youth, runaway kids.
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It was doing rather remarkable work.
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Rick, Tobias and I had been close friends since high school,
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and during that time time we were beginning to feel a
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sharpening of the focus of our call to urban ministry, of
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working around issues of social justice, of working with the
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poor, of working with systemic issues that affect the quality
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of life and well-being of the poor.
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And we decided that we needed specific training in urban
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ministry as part of our seminary education.
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So we went to a new program in Chicago that was just in its
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second year called the Seminary Consortium for Urban Pastoral
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Education. It offered 10 academic courses
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credited on a master's level. It offered a full year
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internship in a ministry setting.
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And it offered a practical that went the entire year.
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That was an integration of theory, practice, spirituality,
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and professional growth. We'd found nothing better.
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So the next step was to convince the seminary.
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That would be an excellent thing to send Rick and I to this
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program and to give us full credit for it.
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I don't know whether we were crazy or ambitious or simply
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following Our Calling. I have no idea at this point.
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From our point of view, experiential education was one
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of the most powerful tools to use.
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So we went to Acadia and met with the president, who at that
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point was Doctor Haroldman, and we invited the entire seminary
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to come for a winter field seminar in St.
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John, NB, around the topic of urban ministry.
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And we told them we would get all of the housing, provide all
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of the meals, we would have field experience for the
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seminarians, and we would invite the faculty from Gordon Conwell
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and from Scoop to come and offer the educational components.
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And they agreed. So we had the entirety of the
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Mdiv program come to Saint John and engage in a one week field
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seminar. It was a huge bite to take off,
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but we did it and it was a success.
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The president of SCOOP and the three founders of SCOOP came and
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met with the powers that be from the Divinity School and at the
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end of it they determined they were going to do a probationary
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pilot year of sending students, students to school.
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And Rick and I were the students that went.
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Chicago in the 70s was an amazing place.
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I interned for the full year in two places.
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I had a church placement, LaSalle Street Church, it was
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called the Church that Takes on Trouble.
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I also had an internship in Cook County Jail in the women's
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division. I was with a program called PACE
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Program Activities for Correctional Education, and
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there was over 200 women in Cook County Jail during the time I
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was there. Something like 2 to 3% were
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Anglo, the rest were African American and Hispanic.
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It was an opportunity to come in very direct personal wrestling
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with my own racism, my own prejudices.
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I had not needed to deal with racism living in New Brunswick
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or studying in Nova Scotia. There was a lot of struggle and
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a lot of learning. I had an African American woman
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supervisor who was magnificent, and she helped me through that
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year in more ways that I can possibly explain and helped me
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understand what it was to be a woman without a voice, because
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these women were without a voice at the same time.
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Rosemary Redford Ruther was at Garrett Theological Seminary
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writing feminist theology. Susan Thistle Wait was at the
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University of Chicago. Black womanist theology was
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everywhere at that point. I mean, it was a powerful time
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to be in Chicago. Issues of women's rights, issues
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of civil rights, issues of racism and poverty, they were
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all on the front burner. That cemented my calling to be
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involved in urban ministry on a frontline.
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But I finally managed to come back to Nova Scotia and
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graduate. I I took the slow boat, but the
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scenery was terrific and I learned a lot about boating.
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Being a first year student and coming back as a senior, it was
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very different. When I was a first year student,
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5 male colleagues questioned my calling in a rather aggressive
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way and told me if that's how I biblically interpreted the role
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of women in the church, that I probably had my salvation all
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wrong as well. It was not a welcoming
19:00
atmosphere for me. I left the first year
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extraordinarily angry, and I'm not proud of that, but I was
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deeply angered by what I experienced at Scoop.
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There was very equal treatment and respect and opportunity to
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serve, to participate, to contribute, and gender was never
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an issue. So You're in Chicago helped me
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work through a lot of my anger and find a bit of grace inside
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of me to continue on. And when I came back at the end,
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I had three of those five students apologize to me and ask
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my forgiveness, which I gladly gave.
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I graduated in 81. I got the award for systematic
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theology that year. And just let me say, one of the
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things that I appreciated and learned at SCOOP was the ability
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to negotiate with faculty around my own learning agenda and to
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create my own learning agenda. To use the syllabi, the reading
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list, the intent of the course in a very personal way, to move
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my agenda forward, not to be passive or to accept the banking
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model of education. But to be a major actor in my
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education. And so when I got back, I
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realized that in the systematic theology course, there was not
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one woman theologian on the reading list.
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And so I negotiated to get a couple of women theologians on
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the list. I read and then presented on
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them and somehow walked away with the systematic theology
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prize. Anyway, Rick Tobias was
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graduating at the same time, and Acadia approached us and asked
20:47
us what we thought the possibilities were of creating a
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track of courses in urban ministry, urban theology in the
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school so that people who could not afford to go to Chicago for
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a year, either time investment or financially, but have the
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option of learning urban ministry because their
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commitment became quite high around urban ministry.
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And so they basically offered us a summer job in doing a
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feasibility study in the Maritime provinces, talking to
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pastors, potential seminary students about interest in urban
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ministry courses, and we agreed to it.
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So Rick and I spent the summer traveling around the Maritimes,
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and once it's more I was reminded of the reluctance of
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male ministers to deal with females who felt called
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ministry. Rick was absolutely brilliant in
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working with me in coordinating these interviews, and he
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repeatedly took a secondary position and did it
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intentionally. It was really quite a beautiful
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thing. Anyway, The upshot of it was
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that enough interest was demonstrated that Acadia joined
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the consortium after our year. I convinced them that they
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needed to be sending students to Chicago, and they continued to
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for the next two decades. I think maybe 150 students went
22:13
from Acadia to group for their education.
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But Acadia did want to offer this option locally, so they
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discussed hiring both of us to begin the process of developing
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curriculum. We're quite excited.
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You know, both of us thought, well, we would just see what
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happens with the seminary and begin looking for church
22:36
placements to begin our ministry.
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After many conversations between faculty, board and everybody
22:43
else, they decided they could only hire one person and that to
22:47
get this program off the road, it would be better to hire a
22:50
male than a female. And so they hired Rick.
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And I was very frustrated, but I understood their choice.
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In that context, it did make sense.
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So I was a free agent at that point.
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I knew I needed to move towards ordination, but I'm still a
23:07
member of Rossi Baptist and they said, well, we'll do the
23:10
formality. But there's no question in our
23:12
minds that you merit a church license.
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We're delighted with your calling.
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We support you. So I went in and did the
23:20
interview and they had a new pastor.
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The new pastor was a church builder.
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He was into creating very large churches and the mega church was
23:31
kind of beginning to arise its head in some places.
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And I think he aspired in that direction.
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Well, the deacons met with me first and asked me some
23:42
theological questions and practicing ministry questions
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and questions about my colleagues, and we're well
23:47
satisfied. So the pastor came in and he
23:51
didn't know me. Let's make a Long story short.
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He was so against women in ministry as a principal that he
23:58
told them he would leave them hanging with this huge expense
24:02
of being in the middle of the building project and he would
24:04
find another place to go. He would leave the church in
24:08
debt if they gave me a church license.
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Now I never knew that because of course there was confidentiality
24:15
involved. I just knew that the head of the
24:17
deacons board came out and said we've had some reconsideration
24:21
and we can't give you your church license.
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So in order to move forward and with deep regret, I moved my
24:28
membership eventually to Germaine Street Baptist Church
24:31
and they were delighted to sponsor me and that became the
24:36
church that ordained me in 1984. It was a rather miraculous story
24:42
to be quite honest. Back then, I think it was around
24:44
50 people on the examining council and one woman, the rest
24:49
were men. So I didn't think I had a shot.
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I basically talked to God and said if this seriously is
24:56
something you want to have happen, Lord, it's totally on
25:00
you to unfold this because I don't think anything I'm going
25:04
to say or do is going to make a shadow bit of difference to
25:09
these folks feel logical perspective on women in
25:12
ministry. And during my time at the
25:14
university, I had a roommate and her dad was a pastor and she
25:19
come visit in my home and I go visit for weekends in her home.
25:22
And I truly respected and loved her dad.
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I felt a lot of support from him.
25:28
He was a well respected pastor and he was on this examining
25:31
council, but he made it very clear to me, this is not
25:34
personal, but I'm not voting for you.
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I don't believe in women in ministry.
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And I thought, well, there you have it.
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That's it. Shall go.
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But anyway, I went in and I was the only woman being examined
25:48
that round. Some of the questions were
25:50
excellent and some of the questions were just rather
25:54
offensive. Did I feel that my presence in
25:56
the pulp of being an attractive woman would cause men to sin
25:59
sexually and those kind of questions.
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So I had fun. I basically said, well, you're a
26:05
very attractive male. Do you think you caught sitting
26:08
in your congregation when you're in the Pope and went on to say,
26:11
you know, our sexuality is part of our our humanness.
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And learning to manage that, to be responsible with it, to
26:20
understand it, to understand its dynamics in every relationship
26:25
is critical. And it's critical for all of us,
26:27
whether we're men or women. But anyway, it went on for an
26:31
hour and a half. And all of a sudden, in the
26:33
midst of all this, my friend's father gets up and stands and
26:40
asks Dr. Mittman's moderator and me as the examinee whether he
26:45
could have a moment of time. And I thought, Oh, no, really,
26:49
this may be the final nail in my coffin here, he said.
26:54
I don't want to address you directly, Carolyn.
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What I'd like to do is to address Reverend Josephine
27:00
Moore, the only woman on the exam council.
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He walks over to her and he says to her, Reverend Moore, in 1954,
27:09
you appeared before this council.
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He said I was one of the men who refused to vote for you.
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And he said, in examining my motivations this evening, I
27:20
realize that I didn't vote for you not because of a biblical
27:25
position or theological belief, but because of my arrogance, my
27:30
sexism and my ignorance. He said despite my vote, God had
27:35
his way and you were ordained into Christian ministry.
27:38
And all these years you have served God in a magnificent way.
27:43
And he said, I would like to humble myself this evening and
27:47
ask for your forgiveness. And he got down on his knees
27:50
before her, and she forgave him. He then stood up and addressed
27:55
the entire examining council. He said I would ask you all to
27:59
consider my sin of arrogance, of sexism, And in the examination
28:04
of this woman before you, he said there's nothing I've heard
28:08
that would deny her call, deny her theological positions, would
28:13
deny her ability to serve God greatly in the future.
28:18
So I would like to cast the first positive vote.
28:22
They sat down. I received a unanimous vote that
28:26
evening. It was one of the most powerful
28:28
things I've ever experienced. And it was the Holy Spirit.
28:32
It was conversion. It was an Emmaus throat moment,
28:35
but there's no other word for it.
28:38
When I talked to Reverend Moore about her call about being
28:42
obedient to the call of God, she said that God had spoken very
28:47
clearly to her through a passage of Scripture, Galatians 328, and
28:53
that's what kept her going. She said the passage talks about
28:56
there is neither June or Greek flavor free male or female, for
29:01
you are all one in Christ. In the light of the significance
29:05
with which Christ throws upon all life, national differences,
29:09
class differences, the differences between men and
29:12
women are rescinded and a higher unity reached.
29:15
I never forgot that I had begun interviewing in churches.
29:20
The interviews went well, but I got no concrete offers.
29:25
And then I got a call from the director.
29:27
Scoop asked me if I would consider a six month contract to
29:31
come down and direct their Congress and Urban Ministry,
29:34
which was an international Congress bringing urban
29:37
practitioners and theologians from basically globally into
29:41
Chicago for five days of conferencing and education and
29:46
workshop. We're pulling in about 700 to
29:50
900 people for this conference, and they wanted me to direct the
29:54
conference and do all the arrangements and programming,
29:58
advertisements, all that. So I thought, well, that could
30:00
be interesting and I didn't have anything else on the burner at
30:03
that point. So I did some praying about it
30:05
and felt like it made good sense in terms of my continuing
30:10
education and commitment to urban ministry and what I felt
30:14
called to. So I got a work visa and went
30:17
down and did that for six months.
30:19
And at the end of the six months, I was offered the
30:21
position of program director of the Master of Divinity program
30:25
at SCOOP, and I did not accept it immediately.
30:29
I had health issues in my family and I really did not want to
30:34
live in Chicago. I loved the place, but I was a
30:39
Maritimer. I wanted to come back to the
30:42
maritime. I wanted to minister in an urban
30:46
church. Now, you must know that all the
30:48
old first churches are urban and calling a young woman is not
30:53
high on their agenda at that point in time.
30:55
So it was pretty dicey that I'd get anything, you know, beyond
30:59
an associate or even a Christian Ed position.
31:03
But, you know, I was willing to take those steps.
31:06
So I ended up coming back in the summer and I interviewed the
31:10
entire summer. I must have interviewed at 1520
31:15
churches. I didn't get one offer, not one.
31:19
And it was all Soku had problems theologically with women in
31:23
ministry. In the meantime, Scoop was
31:26
working like crazy to get my visas together, and they did so.
31:30
So I returned to Chicago because I needed a job and I had been
31:34
praying a lot about it that God would help me discern, and it
31:39
became very clear that Chicago was where I needed to return to,
31:43
so I did. I served at Scoop for the next
31:46
30 years. In 1998, the consortium asked me
31:50
to serve as academic Dean, and then I was invited to work with
31:55
one of the member seminaries and SCOOP to do a feasibility study
31:59
for a new degree program, a Master of Arts in Community
32:03
development. And by community development, I
32:06
mean grassroots, working with the asset of an urban community,
32:12
the human resource assets, the physical assets of housing and
32:16
structure of jobs, of institutions located in that
32:21
neighborhood to improve the quality of life of the people
32:25
who live there. To work with the systems of the
32:28
city, whether it be heat, light, garbage pickup, bus
32:32
transportation, all those essential systems that often
32:36
don't work very well in poor neighborhoods.
32:39
And the degree was to help people become practitioners and
32:43
leaders of nonprofit organizations doing community
32:47
organizing. There was only one other program
32:51
in the country at that point. So it was really creating a
32:55
whole new degree field, which was a bit of an adventure that
32:58
create a degree from scratch. I directed it for 10 years and
33:03
we had students from all over the globe come for it, from
33:07
Jordan, from Palestine, from Libya, from Ethiopia, from Hong
33:12
Kong, from Britain, Sweden, Switzerland, Germany.
33:16
I mean, I just thought God working in such incredible ways
33:21
in these students lives. And Scoop continued to expand
33:25
its program offerings. It created a program in
33:29
Afrocentric theological education that allowed African
33:33
American pastors who did not have seminary education to gain
33:37
it. So it was culturally attuned and
33:40
sensitive to the black church. And we did the very same thing
33:44
that was language sensitive and culturally sensitive for Latino
33:49
pastors. And so we basically ran four
33:52
programs, the traditional MDF program, African American
33:56
theological education, Latino theological education, and the
34:01
Master of Arts and Community Development.
34:03
And I had the joy of being academic Dean over those
34:06
programs. And that was basically my
34:08
career. I've never been very good, as
34:12
we've now determined, at doing things the traditional
34:15
Presbyterian way, you know, nicely in an order.
34:19
God has had a tremendous sense of humor with me.
34:22
When I was in university, I was in a sociology course, and it
34:25
was about jobs. And the professor said, tell us
34:29
your understanding of how you're going to acquire the ideal job.
34:34
And so everybody was talking about applying internships, how
34:39
to do it the traditional way. And when he came to me, I said,
34:43
well, it's simple, I'm going to create it.
34:46
And he was absolutely aghast, gave me a right good dressing
34:50
down. But I was thinking, why wouldn't
34:54
you? Why wouldn't you think about
34:56
what you're called to be, what you want to do and then craft
34:59
it? Why would you climb in a box?
35:02
If you had the opportunity and the vision to do something
35:05
different, why on earth wouldn't you?
35:07
That's basically how I carried on.
35:10
I don't think I created things out of thin air either.
35:14
If there was vision, it was because of my calling and the
35:18
grace of God, because it seems like everything I was called to
35:22
do worked out and for a far larger purpose than just me.
35:28
I think there's been a huge, not huge, but there's been movement
35:33
in terms of equal rights. But it seemed to me, working
35:37
with young female theologians and young practitioners, that
35:42
the edge, the activism edge of feminism had dulled.
35:47
It was a sense that those who came before had achieved what
35:51
needed to be achieved, and the need for true activism,
35:55
organizing activism, had come to an end.
35:58
The whole thought of women's movement, you know, the need to
36:02
keep working forward and moving forward, keeping the agenda on
36:06
the burner, sort of slid. You know, we're seeing the
36:09
results of that down here. There's a conservatism here that
36:13
is disturbing. I mean, my goodness, to have
36:17
Gloria Steinem fighting for equal rights for women, equal
36:21
pay, equal job opportunities back in the late 60s, early 70s,
36:26
it was like, I never heard anything like that.
36:29
It was amazing. And yeah, it changed me.
36:33
It contributed to my understanding.
36:36
It wasn't just theory, it was social justice and action, and
36:39
it was another enabling in the same way of giving voice and
36:44
opportunities to the poor to speak truth to power.
36:48
It was allowing women to speak truth to power.
36:51
I've got that long term history there that says whenever that
36:56
happens, it's significant whenever a human being is
36:59
empowered. Thank you to Carol Ann for
37:04
sharing her story with us. Remember to enter our draw for a
37:08
free book by emailing the address in our show notes.
37:11
And please take a minute to leave a rating on our podcast
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37:22
We'll be back next week with another woman's story of being
37:25
called to serve.