Latest / Random Heathen Ramblings / Random Heathen Ramblings: S5, EP38 - Understanding The Heathen Concept Of Honor.

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Random Heathen Ramblings: S5, EP38 - Understanding The Heathen Concept Of Honor. · Random Heathen Ramblings

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Hello everyone, and welcome to the Random Heathen Ramblings
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Thank you so much for tuning back in to the random Even
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supporting us in that way, supporting the event and
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supporting the effort to work with men in their mental health,
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spiritual health and well-being. Got another solo episode lined
3:36
up for you all today about. A couple of topics that.
3:42
I'm sure I'm going to get more guests on to return to this
3:46
show. So for those of you that, you
3:48
know, saw that saw the the title of the show and know what it's
3:51
about. We don't have any guests on this
3:53
week, but it was just a timing thing.
3:55
But I would definitely like to have more heathens come on the
4:00
show here and you know, talk a bit about this particular topic.
4:08
Before we get into that. I do just want to remind folks
4:12
that it is, by the time you're listening to this anyway, you're
4:15
watching this. We're in October now and this
4:18
month is a very busy month for a lot of different Pagan and then
4:22
and Heathen focused events. One that I will definitely be
4:25
attending is going to be the Shadowmoot event hosted by the
4:31
Raven Moon Hearth Kindred. So there's going to be details
4:35
about that on your screen in terms of, you know, where it is
4:38
and when it is. And there will also be a event
4:43
link in the show notes of the podcast.
4:45
And for those of you watching this on Patreon down in the
4:47
comment or description area, I should say, which will give you
4:52
more information. You can connect with some of the
4:55
event hosts, Greg Strong, their Chieftain.
4:58
But the event anyway, for those of you listening that aren't
5:00
going to be able to see the Facebook stuff or you're not
5:02
checking that out again, it is going to be on Saturday, October
5:06
12th and it's going to be a one day event at the Barfield
5:12
Crescent Park in Murfreesboro, TN pavilion #6 So I believe they
5:18
are welcoming people there as early as 8:30 in the morning and
5:23
they'll be there all day, as late as they can be.
5:25
I think till about 5 or 6 probably.
5:27
You know, when they start closing the gates for the park.
5:31
So it is a potluck style thing and it's of course, you know,
5:34
free entry. There's no tickets to attend and
5:37
it's all ages. So bring your kids.
5:41
You know, obviously bear in mind that it is a public park.
5:43
So a lot of the things that you might be expecting to be
5:47
happening at a shadow mood event.
5:49
If you've never or if you've if you've attended before in their
5:53
previous events that they've hosted over the years, you know,
5:56
the camping, the the Mead contest, you know those are
6:00
things unfortunately this year that just won't be able to be
6:04
done because of them being in a public park.
6:07
But none the less you are getting a full day of
6:09
fellowship. It's a potluck style.
6:11
So please bring a side dish and you're not having to pay for the
6:13
entry. You know.
6:14
So it's going to be a little bit different, but it is none the
6:16
less going to be a great gathering of heathens and non
6:20
heathens alike. This is an open event for the
6:22
Raven Moon Hearth Kindred. They host, you know, or they
6:25
have hosted several events throughout the year that are
6:28
open to the public and this is one of them.
6:30
This is one of their most exciting ones.
6:32
So it's again, going to be a little bit different if your
6:34
first time attendee. It's not going to be the same as
6:36
it has been in the past, but it will be as good as it possibly
6:40
can. I have faith in Greg and, and
6:42
then the other leaders of their, of their group and folks coming
6:46
together to just have a good time and, and celebrate the kind
6:49
of time of year that heathens tend to observe their, you know,
6:54
winter nights festivities. So, you know, winter nights for
6:59
heathens is a, is a time to, for a lot of us anyways, This is,
7:03
it's time for us to look inward. It's a time to us to, to, you
7:08
know, store up for the winter months ahead.
7:10
You know, historically speaking, that's when the winter started.
7:15
And so you're getting ready for much longer nights and colder
7:20
times and, and, and all that stuff.
7:23
So, you know, different, different groups do different
7:25
things. Now, at least in modern times, I
7:27
know for, for my tribe, our winter night celebration is
7:32
going to be the weekend after the shadow mood event, because
7:35
that is the closest date that we could get our people together on
7:38
the weekend. That is on or near the full
7:42
moon, which is when the, when heathens, historically dramatic
7:46
people would, would observe their, their holy tides and
7:49
their holy days. We're, we're on full moons, so
7:53
we'd love to have you. We'd love to see you.
7:55
I'll be there with my wife and and extended family and the
7:58
hearth will have their people there and hoping to have a nice
8:01
turn out. They got one of the biggest
8:02
pavilions that they could at the park.
8:04
If not one of the yeah, I think Pavilion 6 is a pretty big one.
8:07
Should be able to comfortably seat, you know, well over 50
8:11
people, 5075 people. I think they got tables there.
8:14
There is electricity, so you're near bathrooms, you know, all of
8:21
the semi modern amenities that you would be devoid of if you
8:26
were up in, you know, out in the wilderness without without those
8:30
things. So it'll be nice for the for the
8:31
folks that just want to come out and not be, you know, not be
8:35
roughing it too bad with primitive camping or anything
8:38
like that, but still looking forward to seeing you all.
8:42
All right, so today's episode, like I mentioned before, is
8:47
going to be on some topics or some some some things of AI
8:52
don't want to say like advanced Heathenry, maybe Heathenry 2
8:58
like a 2 point O series or 200 series or two O 1 Series, I
9:01
don't know. So it's not like your basic
9:03
rudimentary one O 1 type stuff. It's it goes a little bit deeper
9:07
into the Germanic heathen concepts of things like honor,
9:13
fame, reputation, OK. And kind of trying to deep dive
9:18
or or analyze or decode some of these, these types of things
9:23
that get used a lot. And, you know, terms like the
9:26
words, the terms get used a lot in heathenry nowadays, the way
9:30
they really mean in, in old heathen times, you know, in pre
9:35
Christian heathen times. And when you read the sagas and
9:39
you read various sources that contain such words as honor and
9:44
you know. All of that you.
9:46
Know, what does it mean, what the modern day definition of
9:55
that word would be? So like I said, you know, I
9:57
fully expect and would love to have heathens that catch this,
10:01
You know, if, if you know, I, I know some people listen to this
10:03
show that are not entirely or 100%, you know, heathen.
10:07
They, they don't use that term to identify themselves.
10:10
So some of what I'm saying, you know, it might resonate with you
10:14
and if you want to talk about it on a future episode, you're
10:17
welcome to do that. You can e-mail me and, and ask
10:21
about being on a future episode. But I'd really love to get some,
10:24
some other heathens maybe on a, on a little panel here on a, on
10:28
a future show and, and deep dive a bit more into this stuff.
10:31
But you can e-mail me. The e-mail is
10:32
midgardmusingstn@gmail.com. You can also call in and, and
10:40
leave a voicemail on the hotline.
10:41
I don't talk about that a lot, but there is a, a phone number
10:43
for this, for this show. And you can just call in and
10:47
leave a voicemail with your thoughts.
10:48
And I can play the audio on the show here and we can hear your
10:51
voice. You can remain anonymous.
10:54
So when you call and leave a voicemail, you'll, you'll,
10:57
you'll have that anonymity. If you so choose, you can use an
11:03
alias, whatever. And that number is 615671,
11:08
983-2615, 671-9832. You can call in any time and
11:14
just leave a leave a voicemail and let us know what your
11:17
thoughts are. But so, yeah, so today is going
11:21
to just be more or less my views on what these types of words
11:28
mean. And some of the things that I'm
11:30
going to talk about may seem to go hand in hand when it comes to
11:33
the three things that I mentioned on our fame and
11:35
reputation. So there's going to be some
11:39
companionship with those terms, I think that we'll find along
11:43
the way coming from a from a heathen perspective.
11:50
So that's, that's what we're going to do.
11:51
So buckle up, set, settle in, kick your feet back.
11:56
If you're working, if you're driving, whatever.
11:58
I hope that, I hope you find this educational or interesting
12:02
or, or maybe in, in insightful in some way.
12:08
OK, so let's start with honor. One of the things that I've
12:14
noticed that honor gets used in the term in modern contexts
12:22
outside of Heathenry, you know, is, is, is generally speaking,
12:25
like this, this, this idea or this attitude to, you know,
12:30
stand up for what's right and to do the right thing, you know, to
12:38
do things that are morally upright, that to do things that
12:41
are morally good, you know, do those things that the large
12:47
population, the general population, most people would,
12:50
would, would reckon that is morally sound, morally upright,
12:55
morally good, you know, And then when you do those things, if
12:59
you're not being a, you know, if you're not slandering people, if
13:03
you're not, I don't know, making death threats to people, if
13:08
you're not just doing things that, you know, could be in
13:11
indefinitely in modern times, things like that could be
13:12
considered illegal and could actually get you in trouble with
13:16
the law. The that you're, that you're
13:19
acting in an honorable way. And this also, kind of, like I
13:24
said before, kind of, you know, connects to or is in a companion
13:28
in a way to that such things as, you know, fame and reputation.
13:30
Because if you have a good reputation, then your fame is
13:36
going to kind of elevate the, the way people perceive you, the
13:42
way people know you, the way people see you and, and want to
13:47
interact with you. You know, So if you're doing
13:49
things that elevates your reputation to A, to a level that
13:53
you're fame is, is, is increased for the good that you're doing,
13:58
then generally speaking, people that don't even know you
14:02
personally would think of you as an honorable person, right?
14:09
Again, it goes back to like the, the idea of just, you know,
14:11
being morally upright, morally sound, morally good and doing
14:15
things that the general population would see and deem as
14:20
honorable behavior. And I think that there's
14:24
definitely some, some truth to that.
14:27
I think, you know, I don't think that that's an inaccurate
14:30
depiction or, or description of the word or of, of, of this way
14:34
to be, but I do want to go more into kind of an older concept
14:40
that the he Archie than concept of honor.
14:46
So it's important to remember that, you know, to to to be
14:54
honorable. And I got some notes I'm going
14:56
to be looking at. But to, to be honorable from a,
15:07
from a, from a arch heathen perspective is probably best to
15:10
find as the respect that is derived from a commitment or a,
15:19
you know, confidence in someone's ability and a heathens
15:23
ability to to or, and their ability and their desire to act
15:28
in ways to behave in ways that are in protection, preservation,
15:36
enhancement and support of Frith.
15:41
So what do I mean by Frith? If you've been on the podcast,
15:45
if you've listened or you've watched for any length of time,
15:48
you should know by now what Frith is.
15:50
This is another term that gets widely used and in some some
15:54
ways gets, I think, misused. Right Frith is a very.
15:58
Common term that gets used in heathenry to describe the the
16:04
peace, the the order, the love, the support right the the the
16:10
obligations that small heathen groups formulate through their
16:17
interaction with individuals of that group.
16:22
So again, honor is this respect that comes from behaving in such
16:26
a way that protects the Frith of your group, enhances the Frith,
16:32
strengthens it and supports it. And so that's the important
16:41
thing of your group of said group.
16:43
OK, so a person who is not known by other people of a group, you
16:51
know, we'll, we'll just say we've got two different, two
16:55
different kindred, two different tribes, OK, Two different modern
16:58
day heathen tribes. OK.
17:00
And we'll call, we'll call the first tribe, you know, we'll
17:07
call the first tribe the the, the Stones River tribe because
17:14
they live on the Stones River. I live on the Stones River.
17:16
So we'll just we'll just use that as a hypothetical.
17:18
OK, so the Stones River tribe and then and then you've got the
17:22
the Cumberland Gap tribe a little bit further out east and
17:26
up the mountain, the ways and they're kind of in between the
17:28
hills and this and that. So they're the Cumberland Gap
17:30
tribe. OK, Now, if nobody knows one
17:34
another in the in in each tribe, then what one tribe does that is
17:40
not known by the other tribe, see, they wouldn't know their
17:43
behavior, their their customs, their ways of doing things.
17:47
And so honor between the two tribes, if they don't know one
17:50
another, if they're not in twine intertwined with one another,
17:53
there's no honor between them because the honor exists in the
17:58
Cumberland Gap tribe differently than it does exist in the Stones
18:04
River tribe. Now, what do I mean by that?
18:06
One might say, well, isn't just isn't what we're talking about
18:09
here. Honor as as being this, you
18:11
know, behavior that reflects, you know, morally good things,
18:15
morally sound things, right. If, if, if all you knew about
18:17
was the way, you know, you know, the, the, the Cumberland Gap
18:21
tribe at the Stones River Tribe knew about what the Cumberland
18:23
tribe, the Cumberland Gap tribe did through whispers through,
18:29
through, you know, somebody saying something around the
18:33
dinner table or just they just by word of mouth.
18:37
Yeah, you might could say that they that there's some degree,
18:39
but I think that goes back to like some degree of honor.
18:41
But I think that mainly goes back to their reputation, right?
18:43
Their reputation. It is, it's such a wow.
18:46
They're they're they're tending to do good things.
18:47
Maybe they're doing some community outreach or they're,
18:50
you know, hosting a lot of public events and inviting
18:53
people to come and learn more about things.
18:55
And that, you know, on the surface could be seen as as
18:59
honorable behavior. You know, now what if, you know,
19:05
some of the things that that the, the Cumberland Gap tribe is
19:08
doing, you know, in their gatherings is to teach a way or,
19:17
or try to develop a worldview within their group that is
19:25
bigoted or it is, you know, not inclusive or, or something like
19:32
that. You know, maybe they, they don't
19:34
want certain people around because the way they look, the
19:36
way they, where they're from or this or that right now.
19:39
Once word gets to the, to the Stones River tribe, who are all
19:43
inclusive, who do things and want everybody involved and they
19:46
don't care about where they're from or the way they look or
19:48
anything like that. You know, maybe then that the,
19:50
the, the Stones River Tribe all of a sudden thinks, hey,
19:56
Cumberland Gap tribe is dishonorable, you know, because
20:00
they don't include everybody. And this is where it gets
20:04
tricky. This is where it gets, you know,
20:10
this is where we kind of get into some weeds.
20:13
With with this concept, if what the Cumberland Tribe gap
20:17
Humberland Gap tribe is doing is is is enhancing and building
20:22
Frith within their community, within their tribe, then the
20:27
honor that they have is what has been placed upon them by the
20:32
people, by the members, by the collective.
20:36
So the individuals that are doing the things that enhance
20:39
their way of life, that strengthen their bonds of Frith
20:42
to one another, that is honorable.
20:46
And I'm using very broad, I'm taking broad strokes here with
20:48
things. I wouldn't, you know, I'm not
20:49
trying to say that, you know, to be bigoted and, and, and racist
20:53
and all that nonsense is, is, is honorable or good?
20:56
It's, it's, it's not, we're talking about just, I'm using
20:59
examples because what else can we do?
21:02
I'm, I'm making up names of, of groups, you know, so let's,
21:05
let's just kind of go with the, the hypotheticals here, OK.
21:11
You want to use another example, you know, we'll use
21:16
relationships, the same marriages, you know, you know,
21:20
and let's say there's this one family of extended tribe members
21:23
of extended family that that is, you know, kind of struggling and
21:27
they're, and they're kind of going through a hard time
21:30
financially speaking. They're, they're, you know,
21:32
paycheck to paycheck. It's, you know, they, they're
21:34
having a hard time putting food on the table because money is
21:37
tight. And let's just say one of those
21:44
leaders of that family will say, you know, the wife or the
21:46
husband is, is, is out and about.
21:47
And they, and they, they, they go to the store to get some
21:50
things together. And there's a, there's, there's
21:55
a person on the side of the road, you know, begging for,
21:57
for, for change. You say a pan handler or, or
22:00
beggar or, or whatever right there.
22:02
And they're in some hard times, too.
22:05
And that person is, is asking for some help, you know, in the
22:09
way of begging, panhandling, you know, we'll just say again for
22:13
hypotheticals that the, the wife of the family feels bad for this
22:19
person. You know, she reaches into her
22:22
person and gives them some, you know, a dollar or two dollars or
22:26
whatever. And then the husband and the
22:28
mother and the and the in laws and whoever else that they went
22:31
out with together to go shopping to get stuff for their family
22:33
are now looking at the wife and going, what is wrong with you?
22:36
We're struggling over here and you're giving this money to a
22:39
complete stranger who we're not tied to in any way.
22:41
They haven't, they are. No, we're under no obligation to
22:43
help an outsider, a stranger, somebody who's not tied to us.
22:47
What what is wrong with you for giving away our money that we
22:52
need to feed ourselves and our families with?
22:56
In that family's case and in that context of things with the
22:59
wife did by giving that money away could be seen and deemed by
23:05
the family unit as being dishonorable.
23:08
You are doing something to not enhance, support and protect the
23:13
Frith that we have as members of this family.
23:17
You're doing something against that.
23:19
You're doing something that could be damaging to the Frith
23:22
web that we've established here. And So what you're doing now is
23:26
dishonorable. And they may behave in a way
23:28
that would be bringing shame to this person, to the wife,
23:32
religious against, for the argument's sake, right?
23:34
The wife did it. Husband's there.
23:36
He's not happy because look, now you, you, you're, you're
23:39
damaging the Frith by by giving what little we have away to
23:42
somebody else who is not Frith bound to us.
23:46
And so he might act and behave in such a ways that would give
23:49
make the wife feel shamed for doing this.
23:52
And shame culture in ancient times was a way to re re repair
23:57
the wrong that was done right. Realize that you've you've done
24:00
something to directly impact this group of people negatively.
24:05
You should be ashamed of yourself for that and you should
24:07
be shamed for it. Now in another family who is
24:15
doing much better, who has some of that expendable income,
24:18
right? Maybe they are, maybe they have
24:19
some, some things stored up. Maybe they have a, a freezer
24:22
full of meat and they've got grain in the cupboards and
24:24
they've got, you know, things pickled and canned and stuff for
24:28
the winter. And they're, and they're doing
24:29
all right. And they got some extra, you
24:30
know. To to to work with.
24:33
Let's say that family comes out and they see the same beggar
24:36
there, the same pan handler, right, And they're that wife is
24:42
move to with compassion to to give some extra that they have
24:46
available to them and the family that she's with, right, her
24:49
family unit. They see that and now all of a
24:51
sudden her honor is great. She has done something so
24:55
honorable that it it makes the family look good.
24:59
You know, now one could say that in the other example that that I
25:04
provided where, you know, the poor family, the the not so well
25:07
to do family gave the last of their coin, the last of their
25:10
this, the last of their that to somebody in need.
25:12
That that that that act itself might, you know, increase their
25:16
honor. But again, it, it would be the
25:19
honor that that that is perceived outside of that family
25:21
unit, not the honor that is in the inner circle that in in
25:25
yard, in in guard. So because of the social
25:29
construct of things, it doesn't from an ancient, from a from a,
25:33
again, from an Archie's in perspective, it doesn't, it
25:35
doesn't, it's not quite the same.
25:37
Now we're not living in Archie's in time.
25:39
So as I mentioned before, where we get into some tricky
25:42
territory and some murky waters went to the weeds with that a
25:45
little, you know, it's situational.
25:49
It's it's it's largely situational nowadays, I think.
25:52
And and so to say that one thing is universally honorable in all
25:59
cases and in every context could present a bit of a paradox here
26:05
because because you know, how are we looking at things?
26:07
Are you, are you structured in a way that is very, you know,
26:15
built around Archie's and world views and, and morals and
26:18
ethics? And are you, you know, keeping
26:21
your customs in such a way that is, you know, perhaps a bit,
26:28
we'll say maybe outdated or archaic in a way, or, you know,
26:32
a bit more progressive. And so that, you know, how does
26:34
the whole thing work? Again, it's all very situational
26:37
and unique to the unit, to the tribe, to the collective in
26:42
question here. So those are just a couple
26:46
examples of what I mean of what I'm trying to mean by when I say
26:49
how honor is seen as nowadays and in modern day modern times
26:54
versus how it was seen in, you know, the way that the world was
27:00
quite a long time ago. Those types of views, those
27:03
types of ethics, the morals and ethics and world views of an
27:07
ancient people are still adopted into a lot of groups dynamics
27:13
today. OK, the first thing, the honor
27:17
thing, shame even you know it gets.
27:21
I know of some groups that have or maybe still do.
27:25
You know, keep their group structured.
27:28
In that sort of way that it, that again, might seem a bit
27:31
archaic or outdated, but it works for them.
27:35
And so it goes back to what I was saying, how, you know, if it
27:39
works and that's how that group is going to do it, then that's
27:43
what's honorable. And for them, it may not be what
27:47
the majority on the outside looks at, but that's not what
27:49
they care about. That's not what is being looked
27:51
at as as important to them, but they're seeing what they're
27:54
looking at is you know how their how their honor is is is
28:00
controlled and and preserved from within.
28:05
It also can go into the reason why you know some people don't
28:10
maybe have the greatest. Fame or the?
28:14
Greatest honor outside of their inner circles, but within those
28:19
inner circles, they are the, the they're, they're high up in the,
28:25
you know, the hierarchy, as it were, because their honor is
28:29
coming from within their own collective.
28:33
So that goes into reputation a bit.
28:35
I think too, we hear a lot about in the sagas especially, you
28:41
know, the so and so's reputation, you know, their
28:43
honor was, was to be defended. It's because their reputation
28:47
was tarnished. And so if, if, if what people
28:51
heard from within that came from the outside, right.
28:55
If, if there were murmurings, if there was a reputation being
28:57
thrown around by the outsiders about how so and so on.
29:02
The inner inner circle was, was was behaving or doing that could
29:05
raise question. That could be like what?
29:06
But I, I don't know the person like that.
29:08
What is what's going on with this, with this, you know,
29:12
slanderous stories and what not that I heard.
29:14
So then it would be on that person to defend their honor to,
29:17
to, to do what it takes to to regain their honor.
29:20
Maybe they did behave. Maybe they said something, maybe
29:22
they did something in a way outside that reflected poorly on
29:27
themselves and on on what group that they were tied to their
29:30
tribe. And so they would have to go
29:33
through behaving, go through actions to, to, to to repair
29:35
that that damage to regain their honor goes into reputation.
29:41
It's why a lot of times what nowadays is as heathens, you
29:44
know, we, we are so. Focused on how we are known and
29:51
and and and what we are known by.
29:54
It's not to to be. It's not it's, it's not for the
29:59
clout, you know, it's not for our own self glory.
30:04
It is for the long term, right? What we believe is heathens to
30:08
be that. If our reputation is strong, we
30:11
have a good reputation. Then we'd never truly die.
30:15
Our our name is sung in songs and our name is talked about in
30:18
stories and we are remembered through those those those acts
30:24
by. Our by our tribe, by our
30:26
friends, by our families. And so because of our reputation
30:31
being as strong as it is and being as good as it is, when our
30:34
physical bodies die, then we are still alive.
30:37
In that way. We don't, we don't pass into
30:40
forgottenness or you know, we're not forgotten.
30:43
And so therefore our, our fair fame, that reputation and that
30:49
we never truly die. So it's important to have a good
30:56
reputation, a strong reputation to maintain a status of someone
31:02
with honor. But again, it goes back to what
31:08
is done from what is, what is done within.
31:11
There might be things that get done nowadays that while not
31:14
considered illegal by the larger modern law system, whether it be
31:20
your local, state, or federal laws.
31:25
They might not technically be illegal, but they might be
31:29
morally questionable to some other people that don't
31:31
understand and don't know that the construct of the the social
31:35
construct of that group. And so based on what that person
31:39
is doing and how that group is structured, again, it may not be
31:44
necessarily illegal from the legislative or, or, or judicial
31:49
side of things, but it might be questionable to others.
31:54
That wouldn't matter to them because what they're doing, what
31:56
they are mattering is. So like, I'll just use a very
31:59
basic example in case people are wondering, right.
32:01
Collecting rainwater, right? Yeah, sure.
32:05
That's illegal. And at least in Tennessee, you
32:07
know, you're not, you can't, you cannot collect rainwater, OK?
32:11
It's against the law. Now, if there was a tribe of
32:15
people that's a small group of heathens that wish to do as much
32:21
as they could to be self-sufficient in a
32:22
homesteading fashion, you know, and they wanted to break the
32:26
law, so to speak, or or do something against the law to be
32:31
less dependent on governmental city provided water or whatever,
32:36
right? Or, or for washing or just
32:38
whatever. And they wanted to do that, you
32:39
know, are, are, is, is them breaking the law, the law of the
32:44
land to do that something that is going to be dishonorable for
32:46
them in their tribe, in their group?
32:48
Hell no. Because that tribe is, is seeing
32:51
what they're doing as good for them, good for their way of the,
32:55
of, of seeing the world and the way they want to live and how
32:58
they want to coexist with nature and everything.
32:59
So they're that person's action, while maybe illegal in some sort
33:04
of way, it's not harming to anybody else.
33:05
And so therefore, their honor is is preserved and their honor is
33:10
good. And they have honor for doing
33:12
this because they're looking out for their community, they're
33:14
looking out for their people, right?
33:20
And, and there might be other things that could get somebody
33:24
in trouble, but that was the first thing that came to mind.
33:27
Either could get somebody in trouble with the law of the
33:30
land, with the law as added as it exists on a local, state or
33:34
federal level that they're ignoring those laws, they're
33:39
ignoring those rules because what they're doing is for the
33:42
betterment and for the good of their of their tribe.
33:46
And it's not hurting anybody in the interim.
33:49
So it's all very, it's all very, you know, you have to tread
33:54
carefully with this type of stuff.
33:55
You know, I want to talk about it because it gets, you know, I
34:00
think it gets, it gets understood and it gets talked
34:03
about a lot, you know, like, you know, what one person did.
34:07
And we see this especially because most of us are
34:09
interacting with people long distance.
34:12
So when I say we see a lot of them, I'm saying, you know,
34:14
comments and things that come up online, whether it's a, you
34:16
know, a Facebook post or, you know, some sort of, you know,
34:20
group thread or other things. You know, people have their
34:25
spaces that they want to conduct themselves in online with other
34:31
people. And a lot of times, you know,
34:34
wires cross or, or, or things bleed over and you get some
34:37
people that are in this type of group that believes in things
34:40
and, and behaves in a certain way and it's fine for them.
34:44
It's nobody's, you know, everybody's on the same page
34:47
with it. They, they agree that it's
34:49
acceptable behavior for them. OK, maybe it's their safe space,
34:54
whatever the, whatever the case may be, you know, and then you
34:57
get that person or those people finding themselves in another
35:04
online space, another online group that isn't theirs behaving
35:07
in the way that they behave in their group.
35:12
Well, then that other group that doesn't behave that way could
35:14
see their actions, their deeds, their behavior and go, you know
35:20
what, a bunch of dishonorable bleepity bleeps or whatever,
35:23
right? They, they, they, they could see
35:24
what they're doing as, as, as being dishonorable.
35:29
OK. And but that's not their group
35:34
and it and it goes way beyond like this type of thing didn't
35:38
exist back in the day when, when this concept, the honor concept
35:42
that I'm talking about was was present.
35:45
It's different now and today, because we're we're talking
35:47
about what honor is, is the respect that is that is garnered
35:50
through the protection support a Frith, right?
35:56
There is no Frith online. You're not, you're not engaging
35:59
in a in, in frithful behavior online.
36:02
You're if if anything, it would be closer to what grith would be
36:07
called. And grith is more just like a
36:08
ceasefire. Everybody agrees to, you know,
36:10
behave on the larger set of rules that everybody is governed
36:14
by at that point. So, you know, the Cumberland Gap
36:18
tribe and the Stones River tribe, if they're in, you know,
36:22
the tribe of the Pine Tree people, OK, and they're all
36:27
meeting together at the same central location, central area,
36:33
everybody's tribal rules and stuff is, is well, you're not in
36:37
your tribe. You're not behaving in your
36:38
tribe anymore. You're now we have this, you
36:41
know, everybody has to play by the same rules.
36:43
So we have this grist agreement, we have this gristed where, you
36:45
know, a, you know, we don't do this, we don't do that.
36:48
Doesn't matter what you think is good or right in your group.
36:50
Now you're under the sort of overarching law, rules,
36:53
regulations of this larger assembly.
36:58
It it almost would reflect in a way not not not in the exact
37:02
same sense, but it might reflect in a way sort of like what thing
37:05
would be thing was definitely a legal assembly.
37:07
It was its own, it was labeled as its own thing.
37:13
But when you've got people together assembled to the degree
37:18
that assembly is, you know, in an online group, an online
37:22
space, a Discord server, I don't know, whatever, you know,
37:27
there's, you know, rules and regulations.
37:30
You got to abide by the terms and conditions, you've got to,
37:34
you know, community guidelines. I'm talking around about a bunch
37:39
of stuff and there's already words for it.
37:40
Now in modern times, community guidelines, you know, you don't
37:43
say certain things, you don't do certain things, you don't take
37:45
pictures of certain things, you don't behave in a certain way or
37:48
all those things. Community guidelines, that's a
37:50
gristed. There's nothing to do with Frith
37:52
because at the end of the day, you're going to leave that
37:54
space, you're going to walk away, you're going to turn your
37:55
computer off, you're going to dis, you know, log out of it
37:57
from your phone, whatever it is, you're going to go on your merry
38:01
ways. You're not Frith bound to
38:03
anyone. They're not Frith bound to you.
38:05
It's different. There's some flavor, there's
38:08
some dusting of, of some of these types of social behaviors
38:13
and, and, and things that might leak into those experiences and
38:17
into those interactions. But by and large, you know,
38:20
you're, you're, you're never going to you're, you're never
38:23
going to fully understand what Frith is.
38:25
If all you ever do is just interact with people online and
38:27
you will never establish Frith with people strictly online.
38:32
Just can't happen. It has to happen between people
38:36
in shared space, physical space. So, you know, the behavior that
38:42
you're, you know, that this one tribe of people is is doing in
38:46
this group that they're not used to might seem dishonorable to
38:49
that group. It's not because there's no
38:54
honor to be had there. There there's no Frith to uphold
38:57
or protect or support in that way.
39:02
Now, again, if it goes back right, you know, if somebody's
39:05
talking smack about somebody else and you know, it gets back
39:07
to that group that they're in where they can kind of behave
39:11
that way or they can behave in a certain bit more, you know,
39:13
loose tongue, you know, free behavior sort of way.
39:16
And they and they they get away with more stuff 'cause that's
39:18
their culture. You know, it still might get
39:21
back to that group that you know, and and be like, hey, you
39:25
know, heard you were behave in a certain way over there with
39:27
those people. That's not their thing.
39:29
That makes us look bad and it's bringing negative attention to
39:32
us. That's dishonorable for you to
39:36
behave that way and in that way because that group of people are
39:40
tied to one another and their Frith is, is, is what's being,
39:46
you know, cultivated and, and enhanced in a way.
39:48
They'd be the ones to determine whether or not what they were
39:52
were doing was honorable or dishonorable.
39:53
Not the outsiders, not the ones that were outside of that inner
39:56
space. Again, please bear in mind an
40:01
online space is not a Frith web is not a Frith stead.
40:03
You might have people that you know in person that you have
40:06
established Frith. Together with and then you
40:09
establish the online space to stay in touch with people long
40:12
distance. That's different.
40:15
And I mean is by, as you know, you, you, you come across
40:17
somebody, you meet somebody online through a comment section
40:21
of a social media post and you both like what you're saying.
40:25
And so you join a group together.
40:26
And the next thing you know, you think you're kinsmen or women.
40:29
And yes, we're bound by Frith and we are tying Frith with one
40:32
another when we chat on these online groups.
40:35
No, totally different thing. But again, in the spirit of, of
40:39
what some people might encounter and, and the, the, the
40:42
similarities, the flavors, the, the nuance, that's their is why
40:46
I use that example. But truth be told, out of all
40:51
the examples, if you're going to stick to one, it's, you know,
40:53
the Cumberland Gap tribe behaves in a certain way that is good
40:58
for them. And and they can they can act
41:00
and they can do the things that uphold their honor.
41:03
Now, if they're going to go and they're going to visit the
41:05
Stones River tribe and behave that way and the Stones River
41:08
Tribe is like, no, that's not how we act.
41:09
That's not what we do. You know, they can't say that
41:11
what they're doing is dishonored because they're not part of that
41:14
group. They may not like it.
41:16
They may try to, you know, say that.
41:18
Well, they're a bunch of this, that or the other.
41:21
But at the end of the day, if they're not Frith bound to one
41:24
another, then the honor is not damaged.
41:29
You know, again, unless like I said, there's somebody that's in
41:34
the group that decides, hey, if you're going to go out and
41:36
behave like that, you need to, when you need to put you in
41:39
check because it's, it's giving us a bad reputation.
41:43
It's making us look bad. I mean, we wouldn't want that.
41:45
We want people to come and be with us that want to be with us
41:48
and then learn about our ways and, and stuff and not have a
41:51
tarnished or tainted reputation. So you can see hopefully by now
41:58
where the waters can get murky, you know, because there can be
42:01
definitely things that by and large people would say are just
42:05
wrong, dishonorable behavior, you know, and why would you want
42:11
to support that? Why would you want to get behind
42:14
that? I'm not trying to justify
42:19
everybody's behavior for the sake of well, it's not my, you
42:24
know, it's, it's, it's, it's their it's their way and it's,
42:27
you know, But at the same time, I'm also saying that it it is,
42:31
it's not my haul, not my call. Eric Shervin.
42:33
There you go. Not my haul, not my call.
42:37
Yeah. You know, if that's the way they
42:38
want to do it and that's what works for them, then I don't
42:42
have a horse in the race. A lot of people have opinions
42:48
and a lot of people like to express their opinions and, and
42:51
get their voices heard when it comes to stuff like this because
42:57
again, they, they, they think that it's, you know, all the
43:00
rules apply for everybody. And as we're seeing here a bit,
43:05
that's, that's not always the case.
43:08
So going to take a short break. Got a couple of more words.
43:11
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47:29
All right, so getting back to it, I was going to say something
47:33
else about honor specifically, and that is that, you know, when
47:38
we're talking about doing things based on an honor code or an
47:41
honor system, again, very specific to the group of the
47:45
tribe that is following that sort of mentality or that
47:52
morality, if you will. One thing to keep in mind, you
47:57
know, is that there is, you know, this is something that
47:59
evolves and changes, you know, so one thing that may stay a
48:02
certain way may not remain that way or is a certain way may not
48:05
stay that way in the time being. So that it it's constantly
48:08
honoring and it's constantly changing with the tribe as it
48:12
grows. Another thing to I think bear in
48:15
mind is what you know, right goodwill is, you know, and it is
48:20
that individual's effort or attempt at behaving in a way
48:23
that aligns with the honor code or the honor system that, that,
48:27
that the tribe or the group that they're connected with, the
48:29
family even expects of them. So again, in the effort of
48:38
trying to do things that uphold the honor of the tribe, you
48:42
know, that, that mistakes could be made.
48:44
And, and there's something wrong with mistakes, just like we know
48:46
now and today. It's it's, you know, a mistake
48:48
is, is a learning process. You know, you know not to do
48:53
something again by making that mistake, you learn from it.
48:59
So, you know, I look at, I look at honor as, as a thing that,
49:04
yes, you know, we can, we can, we can come up in our minds and
49:07
we can come up with scenarios, examples, hypotheticals that
49:14
kind of fit the description or, or, or fit the mold as best as
49:20
we would want to try to shape it into.
49:24
But there's, there's a bit more fluidity to it all.
49:26
There, there, there are, there are a lot of things that come
49:28
into play and there are a lot of factors that I think need to be
49:32
considered now and today in modern times, You know, I think
49:36
there's a lot more going on with people in the world just
49:41
overall, you know, the world is different now than it was again,
49:47
again, it goes to show you the, the, the growth, the, the, the
49:49
evolution, the change of humanity and, and behaviors and
49:52
mannerisms and things that are at one point in time, we're
49:57
considered a acceptable or honorable that aren't any more.
50:00
And this and that, you know, so just like in that vein,
50:05
realizing that, you know, you can't just be stuck in the, in
50:09
the old way of doing things because of, well, that's just
50:11
how the old ways were. And that's how the way we're
50:13
going to do it. And I, you know, I'm listening
50:16
to myself saying, you can't stay stuck in it.
50:17
Look, if that's what you want to do and if that's what works for
50:19
you, again, I'm not going to, I don't want to be put on the
50:22
record as saying, well, you know, don't do it.
50:28
You're you're haul your call. Like, I guess it's just more of
50:34
a, a warning maybe or an admonition, you know,
50:41
exhortation, you know, consider the following type of thing.
50:52
And I think it's good to have exposure to the way things have
50:58
been done, have that knowledge, have that understanding of
51:02
historical stuff because it can help inform and shape the way
51:06
things are done now. And ways of like, wow, OK, well,
51:08
that's the way it was done. Just because that's the way it
51:10
was done, that's the way it worked back then, doesn't
51:14
inherently mean. That that's the way it.
51:16
Works. Now you can try, you can
51:20
experiment and you can test it out and see how how certain
51:24
things work for you and yours. That's the evolution process.
51:28
There's you know, there's going to be things that you're going
51:29
to try and you're going to like, OK, well, this doesn't work,
51:32
doesn't work for us, might work for them, doesn't work for us.
51:36
So if what you find that works for your group, for the group,
51:42
for the collective, the tribe, the kindred, OK, whatever it is,
51:47
there's your honor, there's there's what what is that is
51:52
what your honor is is bound to. And if so, if you find ways that
51:56
work and then everybody is is a collectively agrees on it, then
52:00
it becomes a custom. It becomes the through the law
52:03
of that tribe. And then so therefore, by
52:05
keeping said throughs, by keeping said laws, you're
52:10
behaving honorably because you're acting within the
52:15
construct of your inner yard and everybody else is.
52:19
And the only thing that damages your honor or damages one's
52:22
honor would be the thing that you do that goes against that
52:27
like flat out violates the law. Kind of seems like something of
52:34
modern that that that that fits in modern constructs too, right?
52:38
I mean, if you do things to break the law, generally
52:41
speaking, the community is going to look at you as as a criminal
52:45
or as as a less than honorable person.
52:46
Why? Because, you know, you stole,
52:49
you know, or you, you know, you, you, you were speeding or you
52:53
were unsafe on the road or you were, you know, you know,
52:56
whatever thing that happened. And then there might be other
53:01
things about that we're going on.
53:03
You know, why did the person steal?
53:05
You know, why did they, why were they speeding?
53:07
Were they trying to get somewhere that was, it was
53:10
important for them to get to in a, in a timely fashion?
53:14
And they were, they were putting caution to the wind.
53:17
They were throwing caution to the wind.
53:18
They weren't thinking about anything else other than getting
53:20
where they needed to get because it was urgent.
53:23
Maybe their family was in need or, or somebody was injured and
53:25
they needed to rush to their aid.
53:27
And so they were taking all legal considerations, you know,
53:31
out the window. And, and you know, when I, when
53:36
I say earlier throughout the episode that I'm, you know, this
53:39
is touchy territory, It's, it's, you know, not all things for all
53:47
men or women for that matter. You can see what I'm, you can
53:52
see what I'm kind of getting at. So, and I think that's about as
53:59
much as I can offer just being solo on this, on this episode.
54:04
So maybe now after hearing this or, or watching this, you know,
54:08
for any folks that are out here that are definitely heathen that
54:12
have an idea of what I'm talking about and when they want to
54:14
offer their educated and perhaps seasoned views on it.
54:19
After listening to this, I, I would love to get in touch and
54:24
schedule a time for you to come on the episode.
54:26
We do something like this where you, you know, join me on screen
54:29
side by side. We talk more about it and, and
54:34
see how we can, you know, educate ourselves, one another
54:37
and everybody you know. So I, I would love that and I
54:40
would love to hear from folks that would be interested in
54:42
that. So if you are interested after
54:43
this episode and you want to revisit it with me, send me an
54:48
e-mail midgardmusingstn@gmail.com.
54:53
The podcast hotline's open 24/7. You can just call and leave a
54:56
voicemail that number 615-671-9832.
55:02
You can remain anonymous if you so choose.
55:06
So bear all that in mind and and yeah, I hope you all did enjoy
55:12
what I had to say here today. If you're able to comment on
55:15
this, whatever platform you're catching this on and you want to
55:18
leave a thought in the comments section.
55:21
I know Spotify's got 1. So if you're listening to this
55:23
there, feel free to drop a comment.
55:26
If you're listening to this and you want to share your thoughts
55:28
and don't want it on the show, you just want to write in, feel
55:32
free to e-mail me. If you're watching this on
55:34
Patreon, you're definitely welcome to leave a comment down
55:39
below because this is the community, the Patreon community
55:42
that I have is, is where everybody that really wants to
55:44
get into this type of thing is, you know, it seems they they
55:48
seem to they, they seem to come here on Patreon more so than the
55:54
other public platforms. I don't get a lot of public
55:57
interaction on those things and understandably so, but there's
56:02
your invitations, folks. So I thank you all so very much
56:05
for joining me this week on the show.
56:08
Check everything out in the description or show notes for
56:10
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56:12
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56:16
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56:18
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56:20
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56:23
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56:45
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56:51
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56:54
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56:57
taking the time out of your schedules to, to catch all this.
57:01
So that's it for this week, hope you all enjoyed it.
57:04
Until we talk to each other again.
57:07
May the gods continue to notice you and may your ancestors smile
57:11
upon you. We'll see you in the next one.