Latest / Curiously Guided Podcast / Ep.114 | How to Start Making Money Online (And Keep it Simple) With Marie Domon, Owner of Convergence Coworking & Marketing Consultant

Transcript

Ep.114 | How to Start Making Money Online (And Keep it Simple) With Marie Domon, Owner of Convergence Coworking & Marketing Consultant · Curiously Guided Podcast

• 0:07
  Mariah: Welcome to the Curiously Guided Podcast.
• 0:10
  Shay: We're your hosts, Mariah.
• 0:12
  Shay: And hey guys, I'm Shay.
• 0:14
  Shay: We're two online business consultants passionate about rewriting the rules to success within both life and business.
• 0:21
  Shay: We believe that curiosity is our superpower.
• 0:24
  Shay: And trusting the nudge is a muscle that's meant to be strengthened.
• 0:28
  Mariah: Especially if we want to create a life that feels good from the inside out.
• 0:33
  Shay: So if you're ready to open your mind and let curiosity guide the way, let's get into the episode.
• 0:40
  Shay: All right, friends, welcome back.
• 0:42
  Shay: We had Marie on the podcast this week.
• 0:45
  Shay: She was such a delight.
• 0:46
  Shay: She has so much wisdom to share around how to get started in online business.
• 0:52
  Shay: And more than that, how to pivot an online business as the chapters and seasons of your life changes.
• 1:00
  Shay: Um, Mariah and I, I mentioned this in the episode, we get asked a lot, you know, I want to make some money online, I want to make more money online.
• 1:08
  Shay: Where do I get started?
• 1:09
  Shay: We spend a lot of time talking about freelancing.
• 1:12
  Shay: And in my mind, Marie is kind of like the freelance guru queen.
• 1:17
  Shay: She has been networking and hosting events all geared towards freelancers and how they can be successful.
• 1:25
  Shay: I feel like she's met everybody in every type of online business.
• 1:28
  Shay: Like the amount of people that she's worked with, and I think like mentored through the journey of all of this is very impressive.
• 1:35
  Shay: And she kind of pulls on her knowledge from a lot of different um experiences in this interview.
• 1:41
  Shay: And she just has a lot of like mic drop moments and a lot of golden nuggets of wisdom that she shares.
• 1:47
  Shay: She's a really cool person.
• 1:48
  Shay: It was a delight to have her on.
• 1:50
  Mariah: Yeah, I think it's cool because I got to meet Marie in person.
• 1:54
  Mariah: We were both a speaker at a local event.
• 1:56
  Mariah: And it's funny because it's like, even just through talking with her in person, like I knew that she like this bitch is curiously guided.
• 2:04
  Mariah: And that's the cool part of her story, is like it's kind of this intersection of like she's used to in real life marketing, in real life networking, but like she brought that online and really like squeezed the juice out of it.
• 2:21
  Mariah: And so her perspective is really, really helpful in terms of like that freelancing aspect and like taking opportunities similar to our previous guest episode with Leslie, which if you haven't listened to that one, definitely listen to that one.
• 2:33
  Mariah: Marie kind of backs up that's in that entire um perspective, too, where it's like why you should take the opportunities even though they don't make sense.
• 2:42
  Mariah: Like, Marie is just another really great example of that.
• 2:45
  Mariah: So let's read Marie's bio before we kick it into the episode.
• 2:49
  Mariah: So Marie Rochelle lives at the intersection of creative strategy, intentional living, and systems building.
• 2:55
  Mariah: A natural connector and problem solver.
• 2:58
  Mariah: Marie built Western New York's first co-working space and led regional advocacy for independent professionals.
• 3:05
  Mariah: Today she serves as a fractional leader for growing brands in the luxury estate lifestyle industry.
• 3:11
  Mariah: So, with that, let's kick it in to the episode.
• 3:15
  Mariah: Okay, so this conversation is going to be so fun because me and Marie met at a local conference in Buffalo.
• 3:21
  Mariah: Both of us were speakers.
• 3:23
  Mariah: I feel like we hit it off pretty, pretty quickly.
• 3:26
  Mariah: And I found out through talking with her that she has a really interesting background.
• 3:32
  Mariah: A lot of the times when I meet local people, they don't know about the online space very much.
• 3:39
  Mariah: But you hosted a local conference around here in Buffalo, all around like freelancing, helping women make money online.
• 3:49
  Mariah: And so I would love to, if you're open to it, take it back to them.
• 3:52
  Mariah: Like, how did you get into this online space?
• 3:54
  Mariah: How did you discover freelancing?
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you for following that.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: That was very nice.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so freelance buffalo started that was 2019.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm gonna do the nitty-gritty version because I think that that'll be a lot of fun.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: I actually I was married and divorced, and the first year I hosted Freelance Buffalo was the September that I actually got divorced.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I actually left the home that I was in previous to that.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um and it was it came to me because someone asked, you know, is there a freelance community in Buffalo?
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, would you like to host a conference?
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, I don't know if there's a community here.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: I said, but yes, like hell yes, like let's find out.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you can't really know or figure something out without trying.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I ended up signing on to host a conference that at the time was associated nationally, which was really great.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, over the period of five years, it grew to freelance Buffalo, Rochester, and Erie.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I was listening to a previous episode that was saying like Buffalo's a traditional city, like we're pretty far behind.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: And there's typical industry conferences here, like we know that.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but there was absolutely nothing for freelancing.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I think the word, even freelance, uh, was new and is still new.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I titled an entire content series that I did, What the Fuck is Freelance?
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like, that's the name of it because that's what people would ask me all the time.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so freelance Buffalo came about, did that for a while, gosh, through the pandemic.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: So it was like in person and then it was all online, and then it was hybrid, and then we were in person.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and the how raw that experience was.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'll I I'll never regret it.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: It was a great time.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I don't do it anymore just because of life and commitments and things like that.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but to go all the way back and how I started freelancing was uh I was living in Florida at the time and I was working full-time in a different industry.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, didn't really know freelance was a thing.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: And friends of a friend were in luxury real estate, I guess, uh Southwest Florida, and they were asking me if if I could write.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like for my work, I was a pretty good writer and doing some other things.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_02: So they approached me and said, Well, we've got these houses, these multi-million dollar homes.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: We need listing descriptions and we don't want to do it.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: I was 22 at the time, I think.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Yeah, I'll do it.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like, no problem.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, 500 words, I think it was, something like that at the time.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: I wrote something up for that or toured the house, wrote something up for them, and they were like, Oh my gosh, this is so great! Like, how much?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: How much do we owe you?
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I was thinking, like, let's do something astronomical that I think is kind of dumb.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: Let's just throw a number out there.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, these are my multimillion dollar homes, right?
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: At the end of the day, I'm gonna help them sell this house.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I threw out a number and they were like, Yeah, no problem.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: Done.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, oh.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: It just light bulb moment.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: I was just like, oh, I probably didn't charge enough, which is the story of a lot of entrepreneurial entrepreneurial, entrepreneurs' words and like freelancers' lives is that they don't charge enough.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but that's kind of how I fell into it.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, went from there to like social media marketing, newsletters, that kind of stuff.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: That was back in uh 2014.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: So it's been a long time.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: And then moving into the conference space and all that kind of stuff, like as you said, uh unique kind of experiences and background kind of bopped around a little bit.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: But uh, I don't think I'd change a thing.
• 7:21
  Shay: This is a question I know for both of you, actually.
• 7:24
  Shay: What makes one want to host a conference?
• 7:27
  Shay: Because Mariah also has this on her vision board as well.
• 7:29
  Shay: And I'm curious, like in my mind, but right now I'm like, oh my gosh, I have so much on my plate and host a conference.
• 7:35
  Shay: That sounds wild.
• 7:36
  Shay: So tell me about like from your perspective, like where were you at in business?
• 7:39
  Shay: Like, what made you want to do that in the first place?
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: So I guess going back to the beginning of my story when it happened at this essentially terrible time, right?
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like I just got divorced, I was just moving out and had two young children at the time.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the opportunity came to me, and I I'm a big believer in saying yes to things that can help propel you forward, move you forward.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: It felt really natural to do something like that.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: There were a million reasons not to.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I had felt like I had no money and I was getting divorced, and my whole life was basically uprooted, no big deal.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um and like, oh yeah, no, that came later.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um and then so I just said yes.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that was the biggest thing.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I am a proponent, a person of saying no, but in that moment, I'm glad I said yes.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, gratefully, at the time, it was a part of another or like a larger organization where they had some guidance and things like that.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: So I wasn't flying blind.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: I had some stability around it.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think alternatively, if you study the space that you potentially want to host an event or a conference in, that can be that's pretty equal in experience and just like trying it.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: But saying yes and just doing the thing um really like helped me learn.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: And gosh, then we learned so much during that process because things kind of went up and down as far as hosting events.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I think it was just it happened, it not happened to me in a bad way, but it it it came to me.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: So it wasn't like, yeah, it wasn't like, oh, I want to host a conference.
• 9:11
  Mariah: Yeah, it's it's uh it's just the perfect example of like being curious, like I did, essentially.
• 9:16
  Mariah: Like the opportunity came and you were like, oh, cool, this feels fun.
• 9:19
  Mariah: Where it's like for me, I would say it's just an inner knowing that like that's what I'm doing.
• 9:27
  Mariah: Like there's no option, like I'm just gonna do it.
• 9:30
  Mariah: And I think the more that I go to like in-person conferences, the more that my brain naturally is like, oh, I want to do it this way.
• 9:37
  Mariah: Like, if I did it, like this is what I would do.
• 9:40
  Mariah: And then like it feels fun to play in that realm.
• 9:43
  Mariah: And then if I close my eyes, I see myself on stage, I see myself hosting the conference, so it's like I don't think that I have a choice.
• 9:55
  Mariah: Like, I obviously do, like, I'm a human being.
• 9:58
  Mariah: You know what I mean?
• 9:58
  Mariah: Like, I have a fucking choice whether I'm gonna do it or not, but I'm really just like, I think that it would be so fun, but also I'm waiting until I have a time where it's like I can hold all of those details because I don't plan on doing it for an organization that maybe already has like the marketing or like their branding and stuff like that, where it's like, Marie, it sounds like that almost felt like an easier yes because you're like, okay, there's like there's less things placed on my shoulder, and like now you actually have some support.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_02: And interestingly enough, I think I did two or three years with that organization, and then some stuff happened, and I ended up kind of like branching off and doing it on my own, which at that point I created what is now Freelance Buffalo and beyond.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: It started there.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then it went to Rochester and Erie, those kinds of things.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_02: So I had to do that stuff, the branding and the voice, and if I'm gonna separate myself from what was, what is it going to be?
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: What do I want it to be?
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's really, and this thought came to me, it's deeply rooted in my entire life.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: I've always loved being like the person to bring people together.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like in school, I was I was a floater.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like I didn't have a click, I didn't have certain groups of people, but like I was a jock, I was a band geek, I was kind of like a nerd, like kind of outcast also.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like I just fit into all these little areas.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, this is kind of silly, but true.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: I'd have a birthday party and I invite everybody that I knew in all these different groups and all from all these different towns, um, like locally, right?
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like I feel like at least where I grew up, like people like kind of stuck to their school or wherever they went or grew up.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and again, I was a floater.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like I had friends from surrounding towns and things like that.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that blossomed new friendships.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: And then now in my adulthood, um, my conference, I mean, have had people connect and like they've started new businesses together.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_02: They've done new service offerings, collaborations.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and like uh once upon a time, I'd walk in the gallery of mall and see signage in the mall for a team that essentially like I introduced them, and that felt really great.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I feel like as far as being like curiously guided, my I don't know, my baseline of always like wanting to connect people that you see on LinkedIn, like super connector and those kinds of things.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_02: I never claimed that title, um, but I love like bringing people together, building community.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, also hence why I'm sitting in a co-working space, which was actually like the accumulation of all that work um into a physical space where people actually could work together.
• 12:34
  Mariah: Yeah, I love that.
• 12:36
  Mariah: I do want to go back to okay, so you wrote this, you wrote these descriptions for these like real estate projects, listings.
• 12:46
  Mariah: I don't I don't know the right words, but you wrote that.
• 12:48
  Mariah: You got paid.
• 12:49
  Mariah: They said yes.
• 12:50
  Mariah: Yeah, like what happens then?
• 12:52
  Mariah: Like the light bulb goes off.
• 12:53
  Mariah: And like, what's the light bulb?
• 12:54
  Mariah: Is it like, oh fuck, I can start making money online?
• 12:57
  Mariah: And then you're like looking for opportunities on upwork.
• 13:00
  Mariah: Was upwork a thing then?
• 13:01
  Mariah: Like, how did this transition into this is a really incredible opportunity to wait?
• 13:08
  Mariah: I can do this for more people and I can do this online.
• 13:12
  Mariah: Like, how did that happen?
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: For yourself, online, for anyone, anywhere.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: It was this they don't teach it in school, right?
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I didn't learn anything about freelancing in high school, college.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: And again, it like kind of came to me.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but yes, I had that light bulb moment.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: And then gratefully I was in a community of people where they were entrepreneurs.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I'm grateful that they didn't overwhelm me with details.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: They they kind of kept it simple, which is something I don't know we wanted to talk about, in the sense that, okay, yes, if you're gonna do this as a business, you probably should do it properly.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it was have an LLC, that kind of thing, do your invoicing systems and processes like that.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I was 22 years old and kind of like aloof, like I had no idea, but I'm like, okay, let's just start here.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: Let's come up with a name for my business and then let's get QuickBooks or whatever it was.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I kind of did like one little thing at a time.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and at the time I wasn't like out going to get clients.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: I was working full-time in uh HR.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I had like a full-time regular job at the time.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I just word of mouth, I think.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: And that's kind of how a lot of people start, right?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: You're like you're really good at something or you have a skill or you sell a product, whatever it may be.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and people kind of talk about you and it works that way.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: And then long of the short, I ended up taking a corporate job when I moved back to Buffalo in marketing to make sure that I actually liked it, right?
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: But at that point, I already had I had the name of my business, I had contracts, I had, you know, my accounting system set up.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: I had those things that like made me feel confident into starting a business if that's what I decided to do.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I moved home, decided I loved marketing.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: So yay, that was easy.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, marketing is not hard to fall in love with.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um and then a few years later I ended up going full-time.
• 15:06
  Shay: Tell us more about that transition.
• 15:08
  Shay: Then was it full-time into like social media or like what made you feel comfortable making the jump from because it sounded like up until that point you always had the safety of a full-time job.
• 15:18
  Shay: Where was that transition?
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, that was also in 2019.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I transitioned from corporate to full-time freelance in the beginning of 2019 and then was offered to start hosting a conference towards the end of 2019, which in that like felt very natural, right?
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: It felt like, oh, I'm doing the right thing, like this is great, even though maybe a piece of my personal life felt like it was falling apart.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I am being rewarded with.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I have to remember how I worded this to myself.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: I do remember.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I was like, okay, like I relieved myself of this toxic relationship, essentially, of this relationship.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_02: I've opened space for what I want in my life.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then I was kind of given the opportunity to do this conference.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: So that like really made sense to me.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then I was also the same year uh nominated for an award, and I didn't want to travel.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: I had to go to Austin, Texas for this other freelance conference to be nominated, and then I won the award, which was great.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, I, you know, made what I had to do happen to get there, and then again felt like I was rewarded.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: So, and I'm not out here being like, oh, you know, go go get divorced.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: That's not what I'm saying.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but in my head, I'm thinking, you know, create space for the things that you want.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's a very intentional thing and not something that at least at that age, I was like mindfully doing.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was just kind of happening, but now looking back at it, it makes a lot of sense.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um so, so yeah, I it it kind of all fell in together.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then transitioning to full-time freelance, honestly, it was a whirlwind, but it was great.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: So then at that point, I was on my own, doing my own thing, both both personally and professionally.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, clients were amazing, like in abundance at that moment.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: So I had a lot of client work.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: I had this conference going that created a lot of buzz, made so many wonderful connections in that.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um I was kind of sailing.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: Honestly, I sailed for a few years, just like on that high, which was really great.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then, you know, obviously like creating doing conferences and stuff, like things are up and down, but it went really well for a while.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: And not that it ever like came crashing down or anything, but you know, the pandemic happened.
• 17:32
  Mariah: Yeah, and that's it's a lot to juggle.
• 17:35
  Mariah: Um okay.
• 17:37
  Mariah: So how um I I see you like learning marketing, you have this full-time job, you're learning marketing, you're like, okay, fuck yeah, I love this.
• 17:48
  Mariah: Now, where like did you just start telling, because you're a super connector.
• 17:52
  Mariah: Like, did you just start telling friends, like, hey, I'm starting to help with social media?
• 17:56
  Mariah: I'm helping, was it like blog writing?
• 17:58
  Mariah: Was that did you only stay in real estate, like that type of thing?
• 18:02
  Mariah: Because I'm just thinking if somebody's listening to this and it's like, okay, cool, like I have this skill that people see in me, like I really like designing on Canva, or I really like making logos, or I really like copywriting.
• 18:14
  Mariah: I can just see them being like, okay, how do I go from I got this one opportunity, I tested it, it feels really good.
• 18:25
  Mariah: Like, what can I do in order to like blow this up?
• 18:30
  Mariah: Because I think the dream for a lot of people is to go full time.
• 18:34
  Mariah: And I don't think that that's the perfect solution for everybody because being your own business owner, like, there's so many things that we have to take into account.
• 18:42
  Mariah: Some people dip their toe in and they're like, fuck no, this is a this is a great side hustle.
• 18:46
  Mariah: I don't want to do this full time.
• 18:47
  Mariah: But I think that like once that once you see the opportunity of like bringing your skills online and having a little bit more control and flexibility over what projects you say yes to and that type of thing, you kind of get bit by this bug.
• 19:01
  Mariah: And so it's like, how does like how did that transition work for you?
• 19:06
  Mariah: Or like what do you like?
• 19:07
  Mariah: How do you how would you suggest to other people to go through that?
• 19:20
  Mariah: This season of the Curiously Guided Podcast, including this episode, is sponsored by Adobe Acrobat.
• 19:26
  Mariah: And I want to share how I'm actually using Acrobat's AI-powered knowledge hub called PDF Spaces in my own business.
• 19:34
  Mariah: So, y'all already know I'm an SEO educator.
• 19:37
  Mariah: I create a shit ton of content.
• 19:40
  Mariah: And for the longest time, that meant long Google Docs resource list, tab after tab after tab after tab.
• 19:47
  Mariah: I have a lot to say, okay?
• 19:48
  Mariah: And my audience technically had everything they needed from that document, but actually finding the information and taking action and using it, that was a whole different thing.
• 20:00
  Mariah: So this is where PDF Spaces comes in and it's changing the game for me.
• 20:04
  Mariah: So instead of handing someone a super overwhelming doc and wishing them luck, I can build one intentional hub where everything, like those documents, links, notes, and resources, lives all together and my audience can actually interact with it, meaning they can ask questions, get summaries, and find exactly what they need.
• 20:25
  Mariah: The best part though is that Shay and I built a PDF space specifically for this season of the podcast.
• 20:32
  Mariah: All the episodes that have been previously released by the time that you're listening to this, including show notes, transcripts, guest bios, and links in one place, ready for you to interact with it.
• 20:46
  Mariah: Click the link in the show notes and go play around with it.
• 20:49
  Mariah: I genuinely think that you're gonna be like, okay, wow, this is legit, pretty cool.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: No, I didn't just stay in real estate.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I knew that I needed to, and everybody says this, niche down, niche down.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: Fun fact, I actually did not niche down until about a month ago, and it's been 13 years.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: But at the time I loved working with different types of businesses and coming from a family where, you know, my dad and my mom actually were both entrepreneurs in their own way.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: I really loved independent and small businesses.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: So, so yes, I did kind of niche down, but it wasn't industry specific.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: I guess it would be industry agnostic, right?
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: So real estate was a great place.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: I ended up all over real estate, um, any independent, like accounting, um, attorneys, law firms, uh insurance people.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I did niche down in the sense of like independent and small business owners.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like I knew who I wanted to serve.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: And at that time, like my skill set, yes, was social media copywriting.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: And this was pre AI, thank God.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I got to do the work uh without without without an added layer of criticism, I guess, into what we were doing, because usually these independent or small operators didn't quite they had no idea actually what they were doing.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: They knew what they didn't like.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's still kind of how it how it is.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: But as far as how I would get new business, I mean honestly, I say it all the time.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: I've been networking since I was 19.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: So like the old school way.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I guess that's maybe a thing of being in Buffalo and like more traditional networking.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: But it's paid off tenfold over the last 15 years.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like I've been networking forever.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: I very rarely go in a room where I don't know at least a handful of people.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, yes, that's where we live but also I have, you know, I can go to different cities around the country and still, you know, walk into an event and they'll be like, Burie, like what are you doing here?
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: And that feels really good because that means that I think at least word of mouth wise, I've done I've done what I needed to do.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: And then over over time, uh also like conveying that same thing online, right?
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm actually a big proponent of LinkedIn.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like I love LinkedIn.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: I've always loved LinkedIn.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: But also Facebook at a time, not so much now.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_02: And then Instagram.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: Instagram was great too.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's worth noting online communities.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: So we talk a lot about online and how you're building that.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: So the freelancing females community actually so that was founded in 2017.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_02: I joined that when I was working just freelance part-time.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: But when I decided to go full time I actually built most of my book of business from that community.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: Just other freelancing women around the world either needing help themselves or having clients that needed that type of work.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: And then when you work on your own, you have a certain capacity, right?
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like you only can do so much depending on what your skill set is or your uh your industry.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like if you're a designer or if you make templates or you sell a digital product or what have you, you can do a lot of different things.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: But for me, I was a sense I was exchanging my time for execution.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: I wasn't at the point where I could work less and do more strategy and not be the executor.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_02: I was the executor.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that that's a really important place to start.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_02: I mean I don't think anyone really could jump into entrepreneurship and just be like, oh I just like want people to pay me to tell them what to do and I don't want to touch or do any of the work.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like you have to do it.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: You have to do the nitty-gritty one to learn and understand it.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: But then it also creates a level of respect when you too grow if you ever do decide to have an agency.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: If you do decide to pivot into a specific industry, which is what I did.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: I never envisioned myself owning an agency, but the a pivot that I made recently that we may or may not get to today um allowed me to think if I did have an agency, I'm like I would do it for this.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: And that just that felt honestly very I was curious about it and it made sense to do.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: And it's guiding me into this kind of new realm that I actually wouldn't ever have thought existed when I was 22 starting out I think you just shared a lot of like really good wisdom there.
• 25:06
  Shay: So I just want to like take a moment to uh recap because Marie the reason we wanted to have this episode Mariah and I get asked a lot you know we've I've been in the online space more more or less full time since 2017 and so is she around there.
• 25:23
  Shay: You before a little bit before that we've seen some things we've been around we are constantly getting asked by like friends in our local lives okay if I want to start making money online where do I start how do I go about doing that and and Ryan I feel a bit like out of touch because it's been a minute since I was really having these like beginning thoughts like even you just talking about like the beginnings of like setting up contracting and invoicing like I haven't even touched that part of me in many years.
• 25:52
  Shay: But yeah that was it like it was literally like okay how do I find a domain name okay one step at a time and it's cool now to be in this spot and have that confidence but I think I have lost that connection with like that child mind around like how to get it you're making me go back.
• 26:07
  Shay: Like I'm digging really deep into the brain I know I'm like oh my gosh well you've shared a lot of really good ideas which Mariah and I have like we've had this conversation behind closed doors but I'm excited to get it recorded some things you've said number one there is something about making space I have noticed in my own journey when you shut a door you may not know what the next door will be that will open but something is going to open there is going to be some kind of aligned opportunity that you couldn't have even imagined and you had to shut a door for another one to open literally so I think it's cool.
• 26:43
  Shay: Like I have heard that story I've experienced that story.
• 26:46
  Shay: I think there's something going on there about like what you make space for where you put your focus in your energy that's what starts to grow right so I love that message.
• 26:54
  Shay: I love you saying the fact that you got that marketing job to see if you like it, I think that is really smart.
• 27:01
  Shay: That's a step that my husband and I skipped when we started our first agency we were we had taught we're self-taught designers and we were jumping into entrepreneurship for the first time at the same time.
• 27:13
  Shay: So it was kind of like learning two new things.
• 27:15
  Shay: I had never worked professionally in a design position.
• 27:18
  Shay: So I love that part of your story was see if you even like this.
• 27:22
  Shay: Turns out I didn't like it, right?
• 27:24
  Shay: And it's and I think it also builds some confidence because you're like oh I've seen all this is done on like a multi-million dollar level I can help this local business owner right so I love that like small potatoes after looking at like the big potatoes yeah yeah like going into it with that kind of then you can ask for more money you have like this confidence.
• 27:43
  Shay: And then you also talked about like obviously networking old school networking I think is so underrated being willing to evolve I think that's true about the online space right like it is constantly changing and you have to change with it.
• 27:56
  Shay: But all of this wisdom you've already shared I'm curious if someone were to hit you with I want to make money online how do I get started what kind of advice off the cuff would you give them so I don't think it would be advice I would probably ask them what do they want to do?
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: What do they want to do?
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_02: What is what brings them joy?
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: I was actually having a conversation earlier today about I'm like oh man I feel like I don't have enough time to get everything done.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: And this is coming from a place where I have gone in and out of corporate even over the last few years.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_02: But now I feel like I don't have enough time to do all the things I want to do and that want includes my work.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like that feels so good.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I know there's a lot of opinions around like if you do what you love, you don't work a day in your life.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: I think I gear more that way.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: But I also understand people who like to go to work do their thing and then shut the door not think about it after I think there is a wonderful happy medium in there somewhere.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_02: I think you can do what you really love to do and or impact communities or groups or people that you want to impact by providing a skill or a product or something like that.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I really wanted to help independent small businesses.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: I was like how can I do that?
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: The door was open for me to get into social media marketing.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: So that worked out and then it kind of changed into the freelance space right in hosting the conference.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted to connect people that felt really good to me.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like how do I do that?
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I kept doing that kind of through a conference.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I think instead of advice I would ask them what they would want to do or what brings them joy and kind of see where that goes.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes they go, well I really love fitness or I love to write or I love hosting events, things like that.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like okay great for example they want to host an event what type of event do you want to do you want to host events for yourself and curate a community do you want to work with other people at maybe corporate companies to help host more intimate events either for their customers clients or their employees there's so many little areas I think that you can explore within whatever it is that you come up with as your answer of like what you want to do.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I also think on the other side it's so hard for someone to come up with the answer because in jobs everything is so pinholed right it's like this is your job.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: You do this you do that and you're like well what do you want to do?
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: And people usually go like I don't know like they have no idea.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I think also to the point of creating space like give yourself space and time if you have the ability or opportunity to even take a day and and you know disconnect unplug whatever it is and truly like reflect on what it is that you want to do.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: I think starting with that very little thing um helps.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: And then you can kind of bounce off other people you know or people in business, um, mentors, what have you in order to kind of hone in on like what you've actually could provide to earn an income.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 31:00
  Mariah: I think that's so important.
• 31:02
  Mariah: And I love that your answer is more internal because like we get hit with probably after this because my phone is a stalker and listens to me I'm probably gonna get get hit with like the next hot course with like how to make money online with AI.
• 31:16
  Mariah: You know what I mean?
• 31:17
  Mariah: But it's like there's these like ah we it's like marketing bro messaging that gets people's attention and goes viral on social media.
• 31:25
  Mariah: So then when they think about making money online that's almost where they start they're like what can I do?
• 31:30
  Mariah: Who can I copy what can I emulate all of that is outside noise and I'm not saying that that's not helpful in terms of like getting ideas because a lot of the time somebody asks you right like what do you want to do?
• 31:47
  Mariah: And I'm like in what realm?
• 31:49
  Mariah: Like in what like in what arena like what mood am I in?
• 31:52
  Mariah: What season of life am I in?
• 31:53
  Mariah: Like how creative am I feeling that day?
• 31:56
  Mariah: Like I don't know and we almost don't know because we don't know the possibilities yet like I remember when I when I first met my husband he's from a very small town he worked at a factory and that's just what you did.
• 32:10
  Mariah: You lived in the small town you worked at a factory and then he's dating this bitch from Buffalo who's making fucking money online and recording her face on YouTube.
• 32:18
  Mariah: And he was like you pay your bills doing this and I'm like yes and he was like and it's all like legal I'm like yes like I'm not doing anything like weird and he just it blew his mind because he has never once in his life met a human being that made money from their brain or from their skills online.
• 32:42
  Mariah: And then from us being together gosh we're going on six years and it's like no he looks at the world completely different it's like all of these opportunities kind of open up and so I love what you're saying about like what do you want to do?
• 32:55
  Mariah: And then also me and Shay used to talk about this I feel like on like season one season two of the podcast where it really was just like take note of how you feel in certain situations.
• 33:08
  Mariah: I think that that's how I figured out how I wanted to host a conference.
• 33:11
  Mariah: I'm sitting at other people's conferences and I'm getting fucking jealous.
• 33:15
  Mariah: What do you mean they're up there?
• 33:16
  Mariah: How'd you get up there?
• 33:17
  Mariah: I want to get up there and I was like oh interesting so this is opening up kind of this idea of like is this something that I want to play with and I feel like that's a really actionable thing.
• 33:29
  Mariah: But again it's not a one two three take this course make money online this is like a long drawn out process of like it's your life yourself.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yep appropriately I would be like boom that's it like that's what it is it's your life and I was saying earlier today actually we don't have enough lifetimes there like you were saying there are so many things that I wish I could do.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like as a kid I wanted to be a large animal veterinarian and then as I got a little older I wanted to be an interior designer and then I wanted to be a lawyer.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like there were all these things I wanted to do but gratefully in what I do now or what I was doing it all this time like I could work with a vet if I wanted to I could work with an attorney if I wanted to I could work with interior designer and I didn't have to actually be any of those things to enjoy the industry to impact that community and I think that that's it's a blessing and a curse when you're working for yourself.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like you have to decide you get to decide what you do but you also have to have enough self-discipline and like boundaries to decide how much you can take on as a solopreneur and or decide that you want to grow.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I love that and it's really interesting you say he grew up in a small town so did I uh I used to sit on my dad's couch and type on my computer whatever and he'd be like are you making money right now and I'm like yeah like this is how I make money he goes that doesn't look very hard and I'm like actually it's really hard my brain hurts because I grew up doing hay and feeding animals and like shoveling shit like I grew up doing physical labor on a farm and then now I'm over here just like click click click click you know whatever.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: And same thing with my partner now and a lot of my friends my partner now he's he's a blue collar love them.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_02: They're amazing and I think we've been together a few years now and he even still like I'll talk about work and he just and he's just nods along I think he's like yeah I love that for you like you're amazing you're doing amazing you feel good you're happy awesome still don't get it um I took a couple of friends of mine to like content shoots where you know you get paid to go and take pictures and post them online and they they come and they're in the experience with me and they're like I still don't get it and I'm like what is there not to get I'm like is it because you're just like having fun it doesn't feel like work or feel like something you can make money doing that makes it so like um unfathomable I guess is the word I said it's real I'm like we are here we're you know we're drinking a drink we're on a golf course we're eating steak like all I need to do is like take your picture smile I don't know here's a cigar enjoy and they're like what like how is this real life and especially living in a certain in certain cities that are slower than others it takes a little bit longer to understand.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_02: There are obviously very forward thinking cities where like they're like duh we've been doing this for decades.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know what you're talking about.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_02: There are freelancers that I've met that have been freelancing for 25, 30 years, et cetera um but then there's places where they're like I don't know where to start I didn't even know what freelancing was um and my whole goal of my conference was if someone left that conference whether they were already a freelancer or someone exploring the idea if they left it either with a new idea or like this is what I want to do I had a high school senior come to the conference and she spoke at this event thing somewhat other place and she goes I didn't know what freelancing was until Marie brought it up she's like this is what I want to do in college.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_02: She wanted to be a graphic designer essentially but all she thought she had to do was go to college work in an agency and like that was it for her like that was what that was going to be which there's nothing wrong with that if that's where she ends up great but she's like I don't have to work at the mall like I can actually just pick up freelance clients that are my you know friends, family, that kind of thing and make some money I was like that's the time to make low, you know, low rates or whatever right if you want to make$20 an hour$25 an hour do it while you're in college and you can do it from wherever you are um and then you know by the time you're out of college I'm like you're gonna have five years of experience you'll be so much further ahead than where I was um which again just kind of like living that experience we all here have gone through that over the last decade or so and then now it's like all right now what?
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_02: How do I help?
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_02: How do I show other people how to do this and that it's not scary.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_02: It is it can be very hard but it's not it's not difficult in the sense that it's difficult to understand.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's just systematic and operational.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_02: You just have to have like your ducks in a row in order to do the base entry level things and then most of it like we were saying is like life is just trying to figure out what you want to do next.
• 38:24
  Shay: I really I agree with what you're saying.
• 38:26
  Shay: I think that like I've said this to Mariah many times we are just in this very cool time to be alive literally you can make money doing anything like truly the most bizarre things in the world I'm sure we all have Instagram like businesses that we follow whether they're like decorating cookies or like me I'm flipping old hats and going to estate sales and stuff like there's just a lot of ways to make money online and I think a lot of people haven't really even opened the door in their brains of like the possibility truly I don't think any of us have the possibilities are exponential.
• 39:02
  Shay: And it's like this cool it's like our generation's opportunity we're at then this is our wild, wild west, right?
• 39:08
  Shay: It it's exciting about how many options there are that there didn't used to be for how we could start earning money.
• 39:14
  Shay: And I've kind of given up on like my parents ever understanding what I do they also have that reaction of like what is this real?
• 39:22
  Shay: Like is this real life?
• 39:24
  Shay: So some people are a little lost I don't think they're ever going to get it but some people like are coming to your conferences they're hungry.
• 39:30
  Shay: They want to learn more and so we've kind of been beating around the bush a little bit but honestly in my opinion one of the best ways to get started making money online I think is freelancing.
• 39:41
  Shay: And I think you're to your point it's nuanced right like yes it does start with like what do you want what do you like to do but don't hold on to that with too much of a grasp because you don't really know what you want yet.
• 39:54
  Shay: You got in there you're like I know I want to help people I know I like to work in different environments but let me say yes and take a lot of things and and you'll learn real quick oh I love I I like this I don't like this I'm jealous of this there's something there that I want you know you'll learn about yourself.
• 40:08
  Shay: So I think it is like yes start with what you think you want but also have an open mind.
• 40:13
  Shay: Say yes for a long time for sure.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely say yes for a long time and then then you have to learn how to say no eventually that's harder.
• 40:20
  Shay: It is harder and it sounds like a good problem to have but it is harder.
• 40:23
  Shay: But you're right it's like at the beginning you just have to have this like open mindedness and that's how you learn what you want.
• 40:29
  Shay: And so back to freelancing if I am a person where I'm like oh I'm curious I want to make money online what what in your I'm I never thought I would have asked this question but you brought it up like what is freelancing how would you define it because I'm sitting here realizing like I don't even know if I could put a a nice wrapping paper and bow on top like what is it?
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_02: Oh I love that people have asked me this so much I had to go and look up the definition.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um so freelancer so freelance so it used to be like a Lancer back in like medieval times was like a Lancer freelancer was someone that you could pay to like do what you wanted them to do.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_02: So that's kind of where it comes from officially you'd have to look it up on Wikipedia.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's probably better than what I just said but freelancer I always described it as I also had this thing it was like freelancer versus entrepreneur.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: So if it freelancer you work for yourself by yourself for a specific purpose and I've actually said that so many times um but it's very clear and then an entrepreneur I feel like you're building something that will be there when you're gone or you don't have excuse me you don't have to be present to be earning money.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_02: As a freelancer you have to execute and deliver.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_02: As an entrepreneur you can make money in your sleep and there are people who do one or the other there are people who do both.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_02: Now there's big conversations around you know seven streams of income or different types of revenue for to live this life whilst the world is on fire, mind you.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_02: But there is I think freelancing is a hundred percent the best way to start say yes to a lot of different things just make sure you keep your finances in order pay your taxes that kind of stuff like do that um and you'll figure out the rest along the way you said really quick I will catch up Maria you said something about like as long as you keep your ducts in a row and I think you have a few like concrete things that freelancers should like what are the ducts in a row?
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_02: My ducks, I've always said an accountant an attorney and an insurance person, depending on what you're doing for your life.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_02: I mean there's probably more but those are the three that I usually stick to an accountant obviously to keep your finances in order an attorney to make sure that your contracts are good and then insurance depending on what you're doing.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_02: At the time it was just like what is it?
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_02: I don't remember what type of insurance policy it was but it was like$30 a month or something basically like if I wrote a social media caption my client didn't like and wanted to sue me for it that I could be like oh you know XYZ in this policy it'll cover me peer you know damages or something.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_02: Never happened.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think it's important to have I think depending on what how times have moved on you can very easily freelance without insurance just protect yourself and that's what the attorney is for.
• 43:12
  Mariah: Yeah yeah I agree and it's funny when I first got started I feel like I I mark I was 22 years old when I got started too and so I marched down to get my DBA at the city of Buffalo and I got Mariah magazine and so people could legally pay me by my MySpace name which I was like so fucking excited about and I was like hell yeah and then I remember me telling myself I was like now I'm a business owner and then like people would try to call me a freelancer and I would get so mad I'm like no I run a business mind you I didn't have a lawyer I barely had a contract I didn't have an accountant and I definitely didn't have insurance like I'm flopping around me 20 Two years old, literally wearing glasses to meetings so that people didn't ask me how old I was and that I look smarter.
• 44:06
  Mariah: Because I was trying to-wear watches.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_02: I wore watches.
• 44:09
  Mariah: Really?
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_02: So people think you're older.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_02: Wear an analog watch.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's a whole thing.
• 44:13
  Mariah: Yes.
• 44:13
  Mariah: Yes.
• 44:14
  Mariah: And so I think that that now, like, that's 11 years ago.
• 44:20
  Mariah: I think that that is now true.
• 44:23
  Mariah: I was a freelancer because I was also saying yes to so many things.
• 44:26
  Mariah: And like that's kind of how I got started.
• 44:28
  Mariah: I ended up getting like a paid internship.
• 44:30
  Mariah: I answered a Craigslist ad online.
• 44:32
  Mariah: Like these stories are not fucking cute.
• 44:35
  Mariah: Like it's not like a bird comes, a stork comes and fucking drops an idea in your lap.
• 44:40
  Mariah: It's almost like, ah, I am curious bitch.
• 44:43
  Mariah: Where does curious bitch find information?
• 44:46
  Mariah: Like curious George.
• 44:48
  Mariah: And so, like, I'm like, oh, I'm interested in website design.
• 44:53
  Mariah: I quit school.
• 44:54
  Mariah: I was like, I need to make money because school was teaching me shit that was four years outdated.
• 44:58
  Mariah: I pretended like I knew way more than I did, answered some Craigslist ad for an internship, ended up getting that because I sound fun and I like knew enough for them to get that's like all you need, though.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_02: You just need to know more than your client.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_02: You need to know this much more than your client.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_02: I've already said that to a lot of people.
• 45:17
  Mariah: Yes, that's the huge thing.
• 45:19
  Mariah: And so I did that and it got my whistle wet.
• 45:22
  Mariah: And these the guys that I was working with were literally two dudes four years older than me.
• 45:30
  Mariah: We were working out of like an old home turned into an office running an agency.
• 45:36
  Mariah: And it was like that experience that I was like, this is what it is.
• 45:42
  Mariah: Because essentially, like you were saying, we never got taught this in high school, we never got taught this in college.
• 45:47
  Mariah: That like you could just, I don't want to say make shit up like we're liars, but like make shit up and just test it.
• 45:57
  Mariah: I think that like when you say business, people are like, oh my God, I gotta have a five-year business plan.
• 46:01
  Mariah: Never in my life have I ever had a five-year business plan.
• 46:03
  Mariah: Like even if you ask me now, I don't have a clue.
• 46:06
  Mariah: I couldn't tell you.
• 46:07
  Mariah: But it's like there's this juice, especially in the beginning.
• 46:11
  Mariah: Like, if you were in the beginning and you're thinking about this and you're like, I'm trying to make money online, I know that it's hard and it's probably overwhelming, but you are in like the juiciest arena where it's like you can do whatever you want and just say yes to shit because you're gonna find out what you want to do and what you don't want to do.
• 46:30
  Mariah: Like when I was an intern, they were like, hey, create copy for this page.
• 46:33
  Mariah: It was like, I don't know what that means, but like I could put some words on the page and they were like, okay, cool.
• 46:36
  Mariah: And then they're like, hey, uh change the CSS of this heading.
• 46:40
  Mariah: And I was like, I don't know how to do that, but I found some website that'll show me how to do it.
• 46:44
  Mariah: That's why they hired me, is because my space like I literally, literally, is because I just was curious enough to figure it out.
• 46:54
  Mariah: I think that that's what people miss.
• 46:56
  Mariah: That's the skill.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_02: You have to be willing to to fail, really.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_02: You have to be willing to learn, but also willing to fail.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I don't think I don't think failure.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there are some inst instances where failure really does apply, but I think in this realm, like you're not failing.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_02: You're just learning about what you either can do better or what you don't want to do, or the types of people you don't want to work with.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and there's a lot of opportunity for that in working for yourself.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think there's there's not one straight line from freelancer to entrepreneur or freelancer to fractional consultant.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's no straight line to any of these things.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like I went from a side hustle freelancer to working full time to freelancing full time, and then I shut down my freelance business when I was back in corporate for a little while.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_02: And then I just went back to freelance full-time and I'm like, God, I'm starting all over.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_02: This is kind of crazy.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, where the hell do I start?
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_02: I had to ask myself questions.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_02: I already knew the answers to, but the times had changed so much that I had to like reflect and be like, well, this is what I did last time.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_02: Do we still live in that age?
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_02: Because it had been 10 years.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, oh, this is interesting.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and and a lot of the things that I used to do work.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, honestly, after this, um, I'm going to a networking event.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I haven't done networking in forever again because I felt like I knew a lot of people in a lot of rooms.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_02: And gratefully, the conference that we met at, Mariah, like, I didn't know anyone.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_02: I knew like three people, but I got to meet you.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_02: And we got to meet Brandon, and we got to meet all these other people that we could collaborate with.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like this renewed sense of energy because again, like owning a visits in my mind isn't essentially hard.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_02: It can be tedious, it can be exhausting.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_02: But you just need to get lit up again.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that that's it.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_02: Finding what lights you up, and that's gonna change from the time that you're 22 to 32 or whatever, or as you get married and have kids, or any of those, any life thing, you move into different cities, or you know, you have an accident.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like people like physically, like if you have if you're doing one thing and then you're no longer able to do that thing, like how do you shift?
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_02: How do you move?
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_02: And that's how kind of going back to talking about it's your life, like fail fast.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_02: And what is that?
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's like fail, fail fast.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_02: That's Gary V, I think.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then we've also got like Josh Peck.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think you guys, Josh Peck, right?
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_02: He was huge on Vine, and then Vine kind of died, and then he did to start all over on YouTube.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_02: And that was the whole thing.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_02: If you've not read his book, it's very good.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_02: I actually love reading it because I was a big fan of Drake and Josh, a whole other conversation.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_02: But then just Josh in general, just his whole experience and life in being a child actor and then being big on Vine and then having to transition.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then, you know, like going sober.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of pieces of his story that I'm like, I didn't live that story, but there are so many things that he went through that I can relate to in my own way.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm hoping that even anyone listening to this, like your life may not look like mine or yours, but there are things that you can relate to and kind of take from and then mold it into what you need it to be in order to like hopefully, if that's what you want to do, like start your own business.
• 50:05
  Shay: Like I really like what you're saying because I think that that's something we all will run into.
• 50:11
  Shay: Your fire kind of dies in life changes and seasons change and chapters change, the online business space changes, explodes, dies.
• 50:20
  Shay: We all saw what happened with COVID, right?
• 50:22
  Shay: And I think there can be a bit of like, I don't know if shame is the right word, but it it's kind of like, oh, I was fired up about this and I built this whole thing around it, but I'm not really feeling it anymore.
• 50:32
  Shay: And what does that mean?
• 50:34
  Shay: And so I like what you're saying.
• 50:35
  Shay: It's kind of your responsibility to reignite that.
• 50:39
  Shay: Go, what was it before?
• 50:41
  Shay: Go network, go read a book, go whatever that is.
• 50:44
  Shay: Because you're I'm talking to myself right now.
• 50:46
  Shay: I definitely can get in this like, oh, oh, I don't have the fire.
• 50:50
  Shay: What happened to the fire?
• 50:51
  Shay: But it's like, that's just life, right?
• 50:53
  Shay: Like, that's just part of this to bring up your point earlier.
• 50:56
  Shay: Can you embrace the journey of all of this?
• 50:58
  Shay: Because it is, or you're signing up for a journey, right?
• 51:01
  Shay: It's literally a marathon.
• 51:02
  Shay: Can you embrace the like it's gonna feel like this sometimes and it's not other times?
• 51:06
  Shay: And that's just what it is.
• 51:07
  Shay: I think that's like very sage.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and also with I mean, the conference.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_02: So the conference ran for five years.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_02: So 20 2019 to I did 2023.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_02: So 23 was my last year, so it's been a while.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_02: Every year I get at least a few people asking me, Oh, are you still doing it?
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_02: Or oh, will you bring it back?
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_02: The season of life I'm in right now doesn't allow for that.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_02: And there have been times, I will be so honest on this podcast.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_02: There have been times people like, oh my God, I love what you did.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I want to help you, like, I want to run it.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_02: I'll do that.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, okay, great.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like, give me a time.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like, let's sit down, I'll show you everything.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_02: I will give you kind of what Mariah was talking about.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I will give you the thing.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I will hand it to you, but you have to want it.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, I don't hear from them.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_02: They don't show up.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_02: They're like, oh, I'm too busy on this.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm not gonna say, like, whoa is me.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm like, essentially, you know, I'm like a single mom with two kids that are growing.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like running them all over the place.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_02: Mariah, you will know soon.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's like crazy how busy things get.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_02: And then you have to make space.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm trying to make space, or at the time, I was trying to make space for what was the next step in my journey.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_02: And then so 23, I had opened the co-working space.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'd been freelancing for a while.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_02: That was going really well.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think my kids were getting older.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_02: I think that was like the life point for me is that they were getting into extracurriculars and stuff.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I didn't have the extra time to like plan a conference because that takes it's it's a full-time job.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_02: Let's just be honest about it.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_02: I was probably like, I've always worked three jobs, so I feel like my capacity was that it's not that anymore, um, deliberately, but like I'm a Capricorn.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_02: I won't work until I fall.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I will just go, go, go, go, go, as long as it lights me up.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I made the conscious decision to just not do that anymore and allow space for the things that mattered to me.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I was working with a a coach at the time, actually.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_02: And she's like, pick your top three priorities.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, okay.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_02: It was like family.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's in my notes on my phone, but it was like family, how it was like me, my family, and like my health or something like that.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_02: And if it didn't serve whatever those categories were, I had to say no.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_02: So that was actually a part of my process of learning how to say no.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_02: And at one point or another, like the conference didn't fall within those categories.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_02: And as much as I like hated it, I had to let to let it go.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_02: The banner is still up, it's in the other room.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like I still have it.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_02: I would love to do, like, you know, a little seminar or something, bring it back in its own way.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_02: But what we were saying, it's a journey.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's not totally dead and gone.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's just there or on a break for now.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I've moved a lot of different things around and I think it's interesting enough.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_02: I think people have always kind of followed me, whoever's have followed me on the interwebs.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, they're like, oh, what are you up to now?
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what are you doing?
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like they're curious about what I'm doing, which it always feels good, but it's always like, oh man, kind of just like doo-doo doo, doing whatever I want.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_02: But that's the joy of it.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_02: I get so much fun out of that.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I get people coming up to me, oh, you were just traveling or you're doing this, you're doing that.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, no, it was probably an old picture that I posted.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_02: But, you know, did it did it resonate with you?
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_02: Did it make you feel like you needed to do something good or whatever?
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_02: And they were like, Yeah, you know what?
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_02: I need to like take some more time off.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_02: Or like I play a lot of volleyball.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_02: They're like, oh, you know, I need to like, I love volleyball, like I should come play.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, come play with me.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like that would be great.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_02: So it's just the inflow of trying to figure it all out and knowing when when to open space for something and when to like give yourself space to figure other things out too.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_02: I think is really important.
• 54:40
  Shay: One idea we talked about a bit is this idea of overcomplicating or keeping things simple.
• 54:48
  Shay: And I do think that you know, we've kind of shared a few examples throughout this conversation of ways that we've overcomplicated things as we've gone about this journey.
• 54:57
  Shay: But I'm curious, what if you're interacting with a lot of freelancers?
• 55:01
  Shay: Where where what what are you seeing?
• 55:03
  Shay: Like, what are the typical downfalls?
• 55:05
  Shay: Where are people overcomplicating things?
• 55:07
  Shay: Like what what are ways people could make things more simple?
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_02: I think in finding new clients, I think a lot of people are like, where are the clients?
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_02: Where's the money?
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I know what I'm gonna do, I'm really good at it.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_02: This is who I want to work with.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, some a member here at this space is just that.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_02: She has her niche, she's knows what she wants to do.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_02: She's having such a hard time finding clients, and she's gone to some networking things.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_02: I've invited her to some things.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then, you know, she's done some outreach on her own.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_02: But in my mind, not that I think she's doing anything wrong.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_02: I think she is overcomplicating it a little bit because she was so honed in on like who she wanted to offer her services to.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_02: I said, Why don't you consider opening it up a little bit?
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_02: Instead of focusing on this one industry, I said, You're brand new.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and I was very just like, can I be blunt and honest with you?
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_02: And she was like, Yes.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, You want to service this industry?
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_02: I said, This industry isn't responding to you right now.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, let's pivot.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, you can provide this service.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_02: She builds websites.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_02: You can provide this for service to independent and small business owners.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_02: I said, They you can target ones that you feel that can match your price point.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I said, but just like be open-minded, right?
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_02: So she might have to take on some projects that maybe aren't with the clients that she thought she was gonna work with right away, but she's not gonna lose sight of like where she wants to go, which I think it's so healthy that she already has that.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't have that.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_02: I wasn't like, I want to work with real estate agents, or I want to work with restaurants.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't have that at all.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_02: I was just like, who wants to pay me to like do stuff?
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_02: And the answer was always yes.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I think just not pulling her totally away from what she was doing.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_02: I just wanted to like get her lit up and talking to open to talking to other people.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_02: And then once she books a project or two, then she's not gonna give up.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_02: She's not gonna give up on wanting to work for herself, which I think is so important because some people hone themselves down too early and overcomplicate the sense of like, I need work, I can't find work, I give up, I'm gonna go get a job.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like, and then they're done and they never try again.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's not for everyone, I get that, but I think that it's important to keep your keep your mind open um in order not to like shut down too quick, I guess.
• 57:21
  Mariah: That's incredible advice, especially in the age of buy my course and I'll tell you how to make a million dollars tomorrow.
• 57:29
  Mariah: It's really just like it takes a long time, to be honest.
• 57:34
  Mariah: I was taking projects to make money, even if I didn't love them, like probably through year seven and eight of my business, like that type of thing.
• 57:47
  Mariah: And now I'm in a situation where it's like I've really honed in on like what I want to do, what I don't want to do, and I'm kind of in a similar space as you.
• 57:54
  Mariah: It sounds where it's like I have to get better at saying no to things, but it's like there was a huge point in my business.
• 58:01
  Mariah: And when people hear that timeline, they're like seven or eight years before like you didn't like you had the flexibility and the freedom to say no to projects or to things that like you didn't really want to do.
• 58:14
  Mariah: And it's like, yeah, because to me, I was choosing my hard.
• 58:18
  Mariah: Do you know what I mean?
• 58:19
  Mariah: Like, you have to come in here, and when you're trying to make money online and you're trying to start, and we want to keep it simple, it really is like great, you have to be curious and you have to choose your hard.
• 58:30
  Mariah: Because for me, hard is going to get a job, working for somebody else, and working a nine to five.
• 58:37
  Mariah: That is brutal to me.
• 58:39
  Mariah: The thought of it makes me want to cry.
• 58:42
  Mariah: But to other people, the thought of not knowing where your next client or project is, not having stable income, having to pay for your own health insurance, having to pay for your own retirement, all of these things that fall on my shoulders as the business owner, that makes them cry.
• 58:59
  Mariah: And like I've seen it really so clearly, like, especially with my husband.
• 59:02
  Mariah: It's like, we tried to start a sourdough business and he was like, I'm gonna do this.
• 59:07
  Mariah: And then he did it and he said, Hell no, I can't wait to find a job where somebody pays me, similar to what you were saying, kind of in the beginning, where it's like somebody pays me to clock in and clock out, and then I don't have to think about this anymore because that's the thing.
• 59:22
  Mariah: That's my heart.
• 59:24
  Mariah: I have to be so damn intentional about where I'm putting my brain space, my energy, my mind that I can think about my business 24-7 because it lights me up pretty consistently.
• 59:35
  Mariah: There are days when it's like I'm trying to be a mashed potato on the couch, but it's like most of the time, I would say 90% of the time, I'm lit up by the work that I'm doing or the ideas that I have.
• 59:46
  Mariah: Maybe it's not like the actual work that I'm implementing, but there's some kind of piece in my day where I can kind of latch on to and like that can fuel me.
• 59:56
  Mariah: But like that's extremely overwhelming to other people.
• 1:00:01
  Mariah: Other people are like, no, just tell me what to do, where my heart would be I don't want you to tell me what to do.
• 1:00:08
  Mariah: And I think that that's so important.
• 1:00:10
  Mariah: And the other thing that I wanted to touch on that we kind of skipped over, but I think it's really important is once you build the skill of making money online, it's like riding a bike.
• 1:00:25
  Mariah: I'm not saying that like it's not hard when you start to get going again and you're like, oh fuck, what do my contracts say?
• 1:00:32
  Mariah: But now you know what a contract is.
• 1:00:34
  Mariah: Now you already met that lawyer, you already have an idea of insurance, you already kind of know how to chat with clients, that type of thing.
• 1:00:42
  Mariah: Like when you're a freelancer or when you're a business owner, you've you accumulate so many skills along the way, and the big skill of making money online that even if you choose to get another job, even if you choose to work for corporate, you won't lose that skill.
• 1:00:58
  Mariah: Like it's something that you can always come back and kind of like strengthen if you want.
• 1:01:02
  Mariah: Yep.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_02: I actually would say and still will say that freelancing, I'm like transitioning to Fraction Doll, but like for the sake of conversation, freelancing is the most stable job I've ever had because it's never gone anywhere, obviously, because it's me.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_02: But it truly is the most stable job I've ever had in the sense of I can always just pick it up and go.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_02: I could pick it up part-time, per diem, full-time, whatever I wanted.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_02: I needed to execute it, but it uh existed.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and and you're talking about choosing your hard.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_02: I love that, because at the end of the day, you're still gonna have to do some type of work to get money or whatever, whether you're owning a business, like a product, doing something.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_02: You still have to pay your bills.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_02: You still have to, you know, do your charts, do all these things.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_02: You still have to have ideas and contribute to society, whatever.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_02: But like, do you want to do it for the betterment of someone else, or do you want to do it for the betterment of yourself?
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, and at the end of the day, like, and we've seen this in the industry, people get laid off left and right.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I my perspective now, and I don't know if it's jaded or whatever, but I feel like those people that maybe think that having a solid paycheck and like having a job going to the office every day is stable, makes them feel good.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_02: They like have no worries in the world.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, they could fire you yesterday for no reason.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_02: And like I get that where like everyone's nodding, nod with me.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um in my agreements, at least, like if someone wants to fire me, they have to give me like a month's notice.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I wrote that in for myself, and like that was something I wrote in 12 years ago.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I and essentially, like, people go, Oh, like if you know, what if it doesn't work out?
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_02: Gratefully, I actually never had anyone that had to like fight that or like do that or anything like that was mostly it was either a mutual thing or you know, they hired someone in house.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_02: Gratefully not had like bad experiences experiences in that regard.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_02: But at the end of the day, they'd ask, they'd be like, Oh, like why is this here?
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I go, Do you want the real answer?
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, and so I have time to find another client.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I'm gonna finish up my work with you.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I need now, I think I extended it.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it's 60 days now.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_02: I can't remember.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_02: The way the world has changed.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I think it'll take me 60 days to replace them, essentially.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and to me, choosing my hard is choosing like business development, right?
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'd rather, instead of clocking in and clocking out, I would rather have to get a new client in 60 days, and that doesn't scare me.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_02: I have friends that, you know, they'll see me go through a tough time and they'll be like, Rui, like, why don't you just go get a job?
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_02: How don't you go do this?
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_02: How you go do that?
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, because I know I can do it.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I also, I'm one of those people that can like operate under, I operate better under stress and better under timelines.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_02: If I know my back is against the wall, like I will pull out all the stops to get shit done.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's usually when like my greatest ideas happen, which obviously I don't like being put in those scenarios, but sometimes I'm like, man, I really need something to like bite me in the ass because I need to figure something out right now.
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and usually I do, which is great.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and then you know, for the times that it doesn't work out, like gratefully I have community, family, friends that like can help and support and be there for me when I need it, things are perfect.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_02: But again, I guess like allowing yourself the space to like be able to figure out if that's something that you can do or not.
• 1:04:30
  Shay: Yeah, I think there's something about um you know, we're talking about like simplifying and and how we're overcomplicating.
• 1:04:38
  Shay: And I one thing I've noticed about freelancers, entrepreneurs, Mariah and I were just around a big group of women and we're just talking and hearing people talk about their business.
• 1:04:50
  Shay: And I really think that people overcomplicate business because we don't have a good sense of what we are in control of and what we are not in control of.
• 1:05:00
  Shay: And so what Mariah and I saw was a lot of women that have all the best intentions of the world of like, okay, I'm gonna go to this conference and I'm gonna book three leads, and then that's gonna turn into one 50k client.
• 1:05:11
  Shay: And it's like they're it thinking that they're in control of the outcomes.
• 1:05:17
  Shay: And I think what we can do as business owners, freelancers, people working online is realize that what are you in control of?
• 1:05:24
  Shay: I'm in control of how I show up every day.
• 1:05:26
  Shay: I'm in control of um where I'm putting my energy, I'm in control of what I make space for or what I don't make space for.
• 1:05:32
  Shay: You know, it's all of that like self-work of what I need, how I need to set up my contracts to support me, right?
• 1:05:38
  Shay: So we have to figure out that stuff.
• 1:05:40
  Shay: I'm in control of that stuff, and then let go of my KPIs.
• 1:05:45
  Shay: I needed to meet this thing on this date.
• 1:05:47
  Shay: Because I can tell you like it's never worked out how I intended, but it's always worked out for the best, right?
• 1:05:52
  Shay: And so I see a lot of people in this just like toy, they're toiling and they're spiraling.
• 1:05:57
  Shay: And if I do this, then I want to do that.
• 1:05:58
  Shay: And my business coach says this.
• 1:06:00
  Shay: And I'm gonna do these three things and blah blah blah and around and around and around.
• 1:06:03
  Shay: And it's like you're not really in control of how this happens.
• 1:06:07
  Shay: All you're in control of is like today, how did you show up?
• 1:06:10
  Shay: Is it like you want future you?
• 1:06:11
  Shay: You know, it's all about like who am I in the future?
• 1:06:13
  Shay: Am I showing up like them today, right?
• 1:06:15
  Shay: And then let go, let go and let God, right?
• 1:06:17
  Shay: There's a little bit of like surrender here and like just letting this cool dance that we're doing with the universe happen and of following our curiosity.
• 1:06:26
  Shay: And so I just I agree with you guys.
• 1:06:28
  Shay: I think I'm biased, but to me, learning how to make money online is the most empowering skill.
• 1:06:35
  Shay: How cool is it?
• 1:06:37
  Shay: If someone loses their job, I can walk outside tomorrow and make money on my own.
• 1:06:41
  Shay: The ability to make money on your own, like that is so safe to me.
• 1:06:46
  Shay: I think people are unfortunately in this like old school mindset of like having this job for your whole career is the epitome of safety.
• 1:06:53
  Shay: We don't live in that economy anymore.
• 1:06:55
  Shay: And it's not looking like it's gonna head back in that direction.
• 1:06:58
  Shay: So if you can just have the self-confidence of like, if I needed money, I know how to go out and get it.
• 1:07:04
  Shay: I think that is like such a basic it's super empowered.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's impossible.
• 1:07:10
  SPEAKER_02: For women, but for everyone.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like, and you know, this is the one thing I actually kind of enjoyed about the pandemic was that it made people, one way or another, like it or not, reflect on like what they like to do.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_02: They had more time, right?
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like we know this.
• 1:07:25
  SPEAKER_02: We know people weren't commuting as much, so they had extra time either to have a hobby or read a book or woodwork or whatever.
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and this is just a live example that came off the top of my head.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_02: So I have a friend.
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he does like vintage finds and thrifting and things.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_02: He was working full-time and security.
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_02: He actually spoke at my conference, one of my best friends.
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I had him speak.
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, I don't know how I'm gonna speak.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, I need you to tell your story.
• 1:07:48
  SPEAKER_02: And his story was he was working full-time and secure, like security sales or whatever, um, vintage finds, thrifting, that kind of thing online with his very successful eBay store that he started a decade ago, right?
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_02: Amazing, like so cool.
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_02: Was doing it on the side, like thrift on the weekends, whatever.
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I kept just in his ear.
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_02: I need to do this to everybody.
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_02: Anybody who's listening to this who has heard me say this, I hope they say something because I'll go, God, you gotta quit your job.
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_02: I even do that with my boyfriend now.
• 1:08:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I love him, love the company.
• 1:08:20
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm like, please just quit your job.
• 1:08:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like, do what you love.
• 1:08:22
  SPEAKER_02: I know he loves to woodwork, he loves to do all kinds of things.
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I just I'm that person though.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not on them specifically.
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's just who I am.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if you hang out with me enough, like I'll get you to quit your job, kind of thing, right?
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so he was, so my friend, he was working in sales, miserable at the time.
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm just like, you can do this the whole time.
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I think he just needed the encouragement.
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_02: He needed to know that someone was in his corner and like believed in him to help him believe in himself.
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know, time goes on, whatever.
• 1:08:51
  SPEAKER_02: He calls me and goes, Were you guess what?
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, what?
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_02: He goes, I just quit my job.
• 1:08:56
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, I told my boss, like, I'm done.
• 1:08:58
  SPEAKER_02: I put all my stuff on the and like I left.
• 1:09:01
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, I literally just left.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I just quit my job.
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_02: I called my mom and then I called you.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, I just quit.
• 1:09:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, I was like, how do you feel?
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_02: And he goes, amazing.
• 1:09:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like he felt so great.
• 1:09:12
  SPEAKER_02: And then fast forward to now, it's probably been I don't know, a handful of years, like so successful, so stupid.
• 1:09:19
  SPEAKER_02: He talks about, you know, five digit months or whatever.
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm five digits, right?
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_02: Three, yeah.
• 1:09:24
  SPEAKER_02: He'll talk about having like a five-digit month.
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm just like, isn't this amazing?
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what where would you have been if you didn't do that?
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like you were trying to apply a, you know, some local insert local company here that everybody has a prestige about working there, but they pay pennies on the dollar to work there, but like it looks good on a resume.
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, but you're over here like thrifting and selling clothes online for a living, and you're making such good money, it's stupid.
• 1:09:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think that's just a huge testament to just this whole thing, right?
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I love personally being a little selfish, like I love being that person that has encouraged someone to do something else.
• 1:10:01
  SPEAKER_02: So if there are people listening to this who need that bug in their ear, like I would just open call, be like, reach out because it's possible in anything here, like the two of you think that we can cover in the time that we have left, um, to like encourage people.
• 1:10:18
  SPEAKER_02: I think that that's the message here, right?
• 1:10:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like, be curious, guide yourself, like let life kind of happen to you.
• 1:10:23
  SPEAKER_02: Leave space to let life happen to you.
• 1:10:25
  SPEAKER_02: I know we all have like our own modes of what we want to control, but leave some space for the rest.
• 1:10:31
  Mariah: Man, you're speaking Shay's life.
• 1:10:33
  Mariah: That example was so good.
• 1:10:35
  Shay: Shays of like, oh, someone in sales that started drifting full time.
• 1:10:39
  Shay: Yeah, it sounds right up my alley.
• 1:10:41
  Shay: Okay.
• 1:10:42
  Mariah: That's so funny.
• 1:10:43
  Mariah: That's hilarious.
• 1:10:44
  Mariah: Um, yeah, I love that example.
• 1:10:46
  Mariah: I think that it's incredible.
• 1:10:47
  Mariah: I think that we've dropped so many like little nuggets of wisdom here.
• 1:10:52
  Mariah: And I feel like all of us like sharing little pieces of our story, it's just that reminder of like, you probably don't know where you're going.
• 1:11:03
  Mariah: But if you can just take one step forward, get a little curious, test something out.
• 1:11:10
  Mariah: You can always change your mind, you can always do something else, but you'll never regret learning a skill.
• 1:11:17
  Mariah: I think that that's so important.
• 1:11:20
  Mariah: And like if that skill can be making money online, like what a gift.
• 1:11:25
  Mariah: What a gift.
• 1:11:26
  Mariah: Marie, this conversation has been incredible.
• 1:11:29
  Mariah: Can you let our listeners know where they can find and connect with you?
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_02: So Marie Rochelle underscore on Instagram is me personally.
• 1:11:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I've been giving that out lately because once you connect there, you can kind of see all the little other things that I do.
• 1:11:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's so many things.
• 1:11:47
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like not one of those people that wants to drop like a million handles and things to follow.
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, just find me, follow me if you wish.
• 1:11:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you may be subject to photos of my children, but you will also see like the projects that I'm working on, the businesses that I'm in, into, um, and then LinkedIn too.
• 1:12:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'll give you guys the links and everything and just drop them in there.
• 1:12:07
  SPEAKER_02: So I have to spell them out.
• 1:12:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but like connect with me.
• 1:12:10
  SPEAKER_02: And then honestly, if you ever see me out and about, like say hi.
• 1:12:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm such a proponent of that.
• 1:12:15
  SPEAKER_02: And it's so funny because a lot of people would say, like, oh, you're an extrovert, you're an extrovert.
• 1:12:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I am very much so.
• 1:12:22
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm also like an introverted extrovert.
• 1:12:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like after this and after the event later, I'm gonna go home and not want to talk to anyone for two days.
• 1:12:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like, that's it.
• 1:12:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but like say hi.
• 1:12:32
  SPEAKER_02: Because I, you know, someone will walk up to me, be like, Oh, are you Marie?
• 1:12:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll have my RBF on.
• 1:12:36
  SPEAKER_02: I'll just be like, What?
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what do you want?
• 1:12:38
  SPEAKER_02: And then they'll be like, Oh, like I heard your podcast.
• 1:12:40
  SPEAKER_02: I'll be like, oh, really?
• 1:12:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like, which one?
• 1:12:42
  SPEAKER_02: And then I light up and totally change.
• 1:12:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I invite you to say hi, like in any way that you wish.
• 1:12:48
  Mariah: We will put all of the links to that in the show notes.
• 1:12:51
  Mariah: And then I think there's um there's a community that you mentioned before, freelancing females.
• 1:12:58
  Mariah: Is that something that we want to put the link to that too?
• 1:13:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think that'd be great.
• 1:13:02
  SPEAKER_02: I I sent you the links for that.
• 1:13:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um truly, freelancing females was like where I built my business when I went full-time.
• 1:13:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like a lot of it, credit to me, of course.
• 1:13:12
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of it for people who are gonna do this on their own, credit to you, but like lean on community, lean on your connectors.
• 1:13:20
  SPEAKER_02: If you have that one friend that talks too much, like talk to them because they are gonna know the people that you want to talk to.
• 1:13:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, something I wanted to say earlier and say I will now.
• 1:13:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I used to get in trouble, obviously, for talking in class.
• 1:13:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was the, the, oh, I don't even remember the word, but just the chronic.
• 1:13:39
  SPEAKER_02: I was the chronic getting in trouble for talking in class.
• 1:13:42
  SPEAKER_02: I was texting, T9 texting under my desk in, you know, in class, getting in trouble for that.
• 1:13:48
  SPEAKER_02: And like now it's kind of wild and crazy to look back and everything and be like, so now I get paid to talk and text and connect with people and do everything that I kind of was like getting in trouble for as a kid.
• 1:13:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I think like find that thing too.
• 1:14:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if you're actually very unsure about where to start, think about the things that people just like naturally know you for.
• 1:14:08
  SPEAKER_02: There's probably something there.
• 1:14:10
  Shay: That's so good.
• 1:14:12
  Shay: And I like what you're saying about there's something about getting around people who are doing what you're doing.
• 1:14:16
  Shay: I also got started with my business with a local women freelancing group and the networking.
• 1:14:21
  Shay: I they didn't even need to know me that much.
• 1:14:23
  Shay: And they were willing to like refer me, and we had test projects together.
• 1:14:27
  Shay: Like it's when you're around people that are trying to do what you're trying to do, you're just gonna get this awesome like momentum of everyone's trying to support each other.
• 1:14:34
  Shay: And so I think there is something about who you're surrounding yourself with, but communities are such a curious everything, especially these days.
• 1:14:42
  Shay: And you're such a curious person.
• 1:14:44
  Shay: I've really appreciated.
• 1:14:47
  Shay: I also want to have a million businesses, I want to be into a lot of different things, and I love how you just introduced or told people to follow you there, like, hey, follow me, but follow me because you can see me doing all these cool things.
• 1:14:59
  Shay: I think that's a really awesome message.
• 1:15:02
  Shay: I think that we hear a lot that you need to niche down and you need to have your one thing and you need to go to the grave with it.
• 1:15:08
  Shay: And so your story is just very inspiring, just in and of itself.
• 1:15:11
  Shay: But I'll thank you for all the wisdom that you've shared today.
• 1:15:13
  Shay: You are absolutely a curious person.
• 1:15:15
  Shay: And I am curious for you right now.
• 1:15:19
  Shay: What is sparking your curiosity?
• 1:15:21
  Shay: Where is your brain going?
• 1:15:22
  Shay: What are you interested in?
• 1:15:23
  Shay: What's lighting that fire?
• 1:15:25
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, so I'm certified curious.
• 1:15:27
  SPEAKER_02: That's amazing.
• 1:15:28
  SPEAKER_02: Very excited for that.
• 1:15:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and right now, so we we're gonna use that, okay?
• 1:15:33
  SPEAKER_02: Certified curious.
• 1:15:35
  SPEAKER_02: Done.
• 1:15:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, right now it's lighting me up, actually.
• 1:15:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm 13 years niching down um high-end or like luxury um estate lifestyle companies, essentially.
• 1:15:48
  SPEAKER_02: So think custom cabinets, think natural living pools, think like masonry, woodworking, that kind of stuff.
• 1:15:54
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm taking all this experience that I took over the last you know decade or so.
• 1:15:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I found an industry that I really want to serve for so many reasons.
• 1:16:03
  SPEAKER_02: But like my dad was a farmer and a carpenter, my grandfather was a carpenter who helped build build Leftworth State Park.
• 1:16:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I've done like mini projects in freelancing that had to do with um like those types of things, like cabinets, engineered hardwood, those that kind of stuff.
• 1:16:19
  SPEAKER_02: But then especially now, and especially with AI, as much as I hate bringing it up, AI cannot do those things.
• 1:16:27
  SPEAKER_02: AI, masonry, carpentry, those kinds of things.
• 1:16:30
  SPEAKER_02: And like just blue collar work and just like hands-on manual labor, and like I'm not out here being like, I want to go flip furniture.
• 1:16:36
  SPEAKER_02: Not that I don't want to do it.
• 1:16:38
  SPEAKER_02: I just feel like I maybe wouldn't be so good at it.
• 1:16:39
  SPEAKER_02: I want to use the skill that I have to help that industry.
• 1:16:43
  SPEAKER_02: So right now it's like keeping me curious is that that industry as a whole, trying to help keep it alive, utilizing my skills.
• 1:16:50
  SPEAKER_02: So basically, I launched this thing called High Spec Club, which is connecting with, working with, and then also maybe like connecting them with each other to help kind of keep like craft alive.
• 1:17:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like I think that that's that's where I'm that's where I'm moving into.
• 1:17:05
  SPEAKER_02: That was a Monday night at midnight idea.
• 1:17:07
  SPEAKER_02: I created like a whole pitch deck and all that other stuff at like 12 o'clock on a Monday night.
• 1:17:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I'm like in that industry and like learning and meeting with designers and things like that, um, pitching ideas, being like, is this right?
• 1:17:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like am I on the right track?
• 1:17:21
  SPEAKER_02: Is this what I think, or this is what I think the problem is?
• 1:17:25
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think that people would be receptive to this?
• 1:17:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, to the experts that I know in the space.
• 1:17:30
  SPEAKER_02: And it's being very well received.
• 1:17:31
  SPEAKER_02: But like you said, like I have to be so curious.
• 1:17:33
  SPEAKER_02: I have to make phone calls, send emails, ask questions, and be like, Do you think this is any good?
• 1:17:39
  SPEAKER_02: And hopefully they say yes, because probably either way, I'm gonna do it.
• 1:17:43
  SPEAKER_02: I just I want to either feel empowered to do it and or like just like know what I'm walking into.
• 1:17:48
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you for asking that question.
• 1:17:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's and honestly, like when I start talking about, I actually I light up and I I didn't know that that was gonna be the thing, but it kind of makes sense given that I started in real estate and like I love beautiful things, but I love helping keep things alive and like helping people more.
• 1:18:06
  SPEAKER_02: Keep so being a creep.
• 1:18:07
  Mariah: Craft alive is so good.
• 1:18:13
  Mariah: It's stuck in my brain.
• 1:18:15
  Mariah: It's it's almost like uh, you know, the Liberty Mutual commercials, Liberty Bear is like keep craft, keep craft alive to me.
• 1:18:24
  Mariah: Like that is so good.
• 1:18:25
  Mariah: I love that.
• 1:18:26
  Mariah: Thank you.
• 1:18:27
  Mariah: It's cool that it's like you're using, like we said, you're using these skills that you have developed over your journey, over your career, which you would not have if you did not be curious, choose your hard and just fucking figure it out.
• 1:18:42
  Mariah: And so I love that for you.
• 1:18:45
  Mariah: We're so excited.
• 1:18:46
  Mariah: Thank you again for coming on the podcast.
• 1:18:48
  Mariah: Like I said, we're gonna leave all of Marie's links and information in the show notes below, but I think we're ready to close this episode down.
• 1:18:56
  Mariah: So remember, friends, that you have the power to create whatever the fuck you want.
• 1:19:01
  Mariah: Follow the nudge, ask questions, and let curiosity guide the way.
• 1:19:05
  Mariah: We'll see you in the next episode.