Latest / UnF*ck Your Legal Marketing / The 4Fs Framework:The Simple Mindset Shift that Elevates Marketing & Leadership With Ramsey Bergeron
Transcript
- Gary Johnson: Welcome to Un-Fuck Your Legal Marketing, where we get brutally honest about marketing, business development, and the messy middle of making it all work. I'm Gary Johnson, marketing coach, strategist, and professional BS detector for attorneys and professional advisors who are tired of doing what everyone else does. And if you listen to this and think, I need help with this, my next group coaching cohort starts June 11th. check out the show notes for details. So around here, we skipped the fluff, real conversations, real insights, and yeah, probably a few F-bombs along the way. So let's get into this. What's happening under the hood is important for marketing your legal practice. And today's conversation is a little different than when we normally have, because we're not just talking about tactics first. We're talking about what's happening underneath all of it. And my guest is Ramsey Bergeron, who is, I'm going to inflate his fucking ego because he's an eight time iron man. He's an executive coach. He's an author of cake on the floor, which by the way, you've got to get. He's also a keynote speaker and someone who has spent a lot of time helping executives rethink the stories they tell themselves. Because here's the reality. Most people don't struggle because they don't know what to do. They struggle because of the meaning they attach to what's happening. And Ramsey has a fantastic framework, which he calls Just Effort Method, which now you know why he's on this show, but it's built around separating facts from feelings, creating space and learning how to reframe the story so that you can actually move forward. And honestly, this shows up everywhere, missed opportunities, slow pipelines. conversations that we are not expecting to go the way that it did go. So I can't wait to jump into this. Ramsey, welcome to unfuck your legal marketing. Gary, thanks for having me. Appreciate you having me here. ⁓ God. I'm so looking forward to this. mean, this is going to be a wonderful shit shell, right? So let's start with stories. You talk a lot about the stories that we tell ourselves. What does that actually mean in a practical sense for somebody that's in business? A practical sense of the stories you tell yourself, and a lot of it, like you said, is under the hood. I'm glad that you framed it that way. 80 % of our mind is subconscious. And it's the little things like, I'm not good at marketing. I'm not a morning person. Things like that, that we tell ourselves that we end up just looking for that, the reasons to reinforce that, and we never question it. If it could even be from childhood, Gary, at five years old, someone told us that we weren't a good storyteller and I'm still running around running that script in my head today. So just going deeper than that. even shows up. It even shows up in how we interact with other people. Like if I say my boss scheduled that meeting, he must be mad at me because it wasn't on the agenda. So even things like that, that person didn't respond to my outreach. They must not be interested. We don't know. That's a story. And so that's why so many people don't follow up. So many people are, I don't want to annoy them. Why send another email? It's those stories that keep us from being successful. Good God. I got that shit all the time. Like personally, and I'm like, so why do you think that most people never question the stories that they tell themselves in the first place? We haven't been taught how to. ⁓ it's the short answer. We're all on autopilot. If I were to ask you, hey, Gary, describe your drive to the office this morning. If you're like, I don't know, man, I could have had to have a Lena on the way in because most of us are just on autopilot. We're not thinking about what we want, how we're showing up. There's a story in Eastern philosophy about a guy on a horse riding as fast as he can. And someone else says, where are you going? And the guy says, I don't know, ask the horse. And that's how most of us live our life. We're just being drug along from task to task to task. We're not slowing down enough to say. Is this even true? Because our brain is not designed to make us happy, it's designed to keep us alive. So most of our thoughts are lying to us all day. And by slowing down and using the just effort method, you can really begin to analyze what's true, what's not, and what's within your control. God, I love it. So in your experience, what are some of the most common stories professionals tell themselves that really do hold them back from their potential? I missed my KPI, so I'm a failure. I have to respond to every voicemail or email right when it comes in. I have to solve the problems for my team instead of allowing them to solve it on their own. I see that a lot with leaders, leaders who want to make their team's life easier and it ends up keeping their teams from learning and keeps them stuck doing their team's job. So they're not even, you know, doing the job that they want to do as professionals. Or same thing with the client. If a client's stuck, it's my fault. And if I put myself out there and it doesn't work, I'm not good enough. If I try this marketing tactic, if I don't get the return I want, I'm a failure. Why even bother? Why do it? So many people are stuck focused on the loss, not the lesson. And I think that's, that's where a lot of people get stuck. let's dive into your four F's. So if I remember right, facts, feelings, fuck, fuck, no fucks not one, facts, flip it and future. Did I get that right? You did. Yeah. Yes. ⁓ Tell me about those. Like deconstruct that for our audience. Well, I think the easiest way to do that is if you give me a situation. You give me a situation and then I'll walk you through the process. So when you say a situation, what do you mean? you a... Something that you're stuck. Like, so what's a situation that you're in that is preventing you in your mind from being successful? So let's take one of the examples that you just said, which is I don't want to... bother or annoy people with a email. So, let's. No, no, no, let's get real real. Okay. So I'm launching a new cohort for my group coaching program. I'm promoting it out there. I'm inviting people to join it. And part of me, uh, should I, should I invite this person? I don't want to annoy them. I don't want to come across as salesy. I don't want to come across as desperate. Okay. the story that I'm saying in my head. Yeah. So, you know, so let's look at the scenario, just F that really works when people are stuck and usually it's stuck on something. So I don't want to send, let's say that you have people in your hot leads list that you don't want to annoy them though, by sending this to them. Okay. Yes. So let's separate facts from feelings. So the first thing here, the facts. I've known these people for X amount of years. They are in, they either are or aren't my target demographic. whatever you want to do is you're just objectively listing out facts. The cohort is 12 weeks long. I've pre-qualified them or I haven't be qualified them. Whatever, just as long as you're analyzing the facts. I send this, I'll annoy them or they're not going to respond. They won't invite me to things if they don't like this. not going to think that this information is valuable enough. They're going to think it's too expensive. So these are the stories I'm telling myself. What happens is, and the reason it's so important to separate these out, a lot of people will just take those feelings and treat them as facts. So in my mind, I've already said they think that the course is too expensive or that they're going to feel annoyed. Then the answer is always going to be no, because I'm not even going to try. I've already made up my mind in that. So separating those two things out is really a very critical first step. I pause for a quick second, ask you a question on that? When my feelings are strong, they seem like facts. How do you separate that? Because, you know, I could tell you, like if you're coaching me, I'd be like, okay, these are the facts. And you're like, those are actually feelings. Like, how do you separate reality? I feelings can also be real, right? I mean, could be based on reality too, right? Okay, so feelings, great. This is a great line of questioning. I appreciate that. Facts usually do not create strong emotions. Emotions come from a judgment of a fact. ⁓ fuck. Say that again. Holy shit. Facts usually do not create strong emotions. Emotions come from a judgment of a fact. Okay. So I use the example, like the reason I went into personal training and fitness initially back in my 20s and 30s was my father passed away from diabetes when I was 12 years old. So he had gone blind, had his feet amputated, he didn't take care of his health. So all right, diabetes runs in my family, fact. My father died in his 50s, fact. Well, I'm gonna be overweight and ⁓ obese, it runs in my family, what can I really do about it? That's not fact, that's a story, right? Facts are measurable, they don't change no matter who you ask. they can be repeated and they're not personal and subjective. And so part of whenever I'm working with with an individual organization is I'll usually like, like specifically like I love working with lawyers man because like fact versus judgment, they get real tricky on what a judgment is because judgment is an opinion. Yeah. So when you're looking at facts, it's objective what can be measured. I sent 37 emails out. had zero responses. Those are facts. Well, this email thing's a failure, there's nothing I can learn from it. That's a story. But if I tell myself it's fact, that I can't look at, well, what was the open rate? Does anyone even click through? Like, I can't even look at what the analytics are, because if in my mind it's a failure, I can't extrapolate any additional data from it. Yeah, I love that. I love that. Okay, so the third one. So you got fact, feelings, flip it. And I'm talking about flipping the feelings. So let's say that your feelings are back to the example that you had listed about you don't want to annoy them or you think they may think it's too expensive. And those aren't really feelings, right? So I have a feelings wheel that I show my clients, especially us men, men were terrible. We're either angry or fine. Like, but if I'm worried, if I'm hesitant, if I'm frustrated, if I'm apprehensive, if I'm, if I have doubt, you know, in things. Those are feelings. And I think it's important to set back and say, well, what am I really feeling about this? And another helpful side note here, Gary, is to ask yourself, is it even really about this situation? Or is it about something that happened two years ago that I'm allowing bleed into this situation? a half hour ago, right? Well, yeah, for sure. Or what side of the bed that I wake up on today, all those little things factor in. But when I say flip it, it's like, okay, so if I was okay, if I was completely fine with sending this email out to them, what would I do differently? Well, I'd probably send it and then maybe do a follow-up in a couple of days. And what Flip It does, it doesn't, I don't offer Flip It for people to gaslight themselves into thinking they don't feel the way they feel. Like you said, feelings are real. If you're feeling frustrated or apprehensive, that's valid. But what flipping it does is it does two things. One, it creates enough space between you and the story of that feeling to realize you're not always going to feel this way forever. It's every feeling you've ever had has gone away. every feeling, every thought has shifted. So that's the first thing it does. And then it allows you to see that you have choice in the situation. You know, because usually when we're stuck with the feeling, everything is overwhelming and we shut down. Overthinking is underacting. And if I'm stuck in a feeling state, I'm not doing anything. Yeah. And so by flipping it, gives me that expansive room to say, if I was, I was in a more positive state, what would I do differently? And then I can see other ways to move and behave. Overthinking is underreacting. I love that shit. Like, I've got Ramseyisms, man. got a whole, that's why I'm... Seriously. I mean, we could end the podcast right now and this would be so fucking valuable for attorneys when they are trying to market because look, attorneys learn the practice of law, right? They're really competent on that. They're also very confident about that as well. Then when it comes to sales and marketing, they have a whole different story. I'm not a sales person. you know, my receptionist can do this, you know, and, on and on. And it's so important for them to have a construct like this, like the four F's to be able to help them because they do overthink things, you know, they're very adversarial. and I also think that the, when I say disadvantaged legal profession, I work with a lot of, ⁓ You know, I've worked with law firms and it's one of the same things I see when I work with doctors where when your business is very precise, anything less than perfection seems like a failure. Yeah. And when you're looking at marketing, it's not, it's not a binary decision. It's not like this was either a good or bad campaign. So I would encourage anyone who's listening to this, especially in legal field, give yourself permission to learn, give yourself permission to look at it with beginner's eyes. And you can even do the same marketing campaign every month. the first month of every month for a year and some will be better than others. There's so many outside factors. So when I think a key concept to go down a slight rabbit hole here, Yuri, give yourself permission. Give yourself permission to try, just try to do something differently. Focus on the lesson, not the loss. I love that. Give yourself permission because like for some of my clients, I really encourage them to do video because video builds trust and most people hate being on video. They hate how they sound. They hate how they look. I mean, you're an exception because you love yourself so much. Sorry, I was looking at my picture. What were you saying? was staring at myself in the lens there. But it's so like, give yourself permission to be not that wonderful speaker who is in front of the jury who just can orate like no other. Yeah. that you're gonna make mistakes. It's gonna be okay. Give yourself permission to learn how to do video in the right way. I went back and looked at my, I was ⁓ a DJ back in a former life. It feels like talking to rooms of 500 people. So I'm very comfortable talking in front of people. But when COVID hit and I was transitioning to everything online, I went back and looked at some of my very first podcast episodes and talking. They're painful to go back and look at. But think about it like I always use athletics as an analogy for leadership and growth because the only way to get stronger is to tolerate the discomfort of lifting, of trying. the same thing applies to any new skill. It's discomfort. What is it? The, the admission to a meaningful life is the ability to tolerate discomfort. I'm messing that quote up, but it's something I like that. Yep. And the first couple of times you record it, it may not. sound perfect and that's okay. And I find that whenever I'm doing marketing outreach, the more I can just be myself and lean into the fact that I'm not perfect, it resonates better with my audience because they see that I'm a human being also. It's not like I'm giving bad advice. It's just they see that I'm a human and I had a typo in an email. Well, thank God that shows me that AI didn't write the whole damn thing. So what can you do to just be yourself? And I think that's even a great just differentiating factor. in your marketing is how much of you is showing through. know we're kind of off the four F's. No, no, we're going, go preach. This is great. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I think one of the, one of the most powerful things with marketing is authenticity, just truly being yourself. And two, it's so much easier. Like instead of, okay, which mask am I going to wear today? I'm so glad you said that because think about, because then you're not being you. Have you, have you seen my videos where I talk about the mask we wear? Now we're wearing a mask and now I'm playing an actor. I'm playing the part of somebody who is this and however that differs from me. And then the other person doesn't even get to know me because they're getting to know that mask version of me. And then eventually that mask, it gets heavy, man. It's so much fucking energy to pretend to be something you're not. And that's, that's, that's what came through for me. So I was doing an Ironman. I went to go to Ireland to go do an Ironman in 2018. And the water was going to be 50 degrees for the swim, a hundred percent chance of rain. And I'm like, you know what? I don't, I don't want to fucking do this. And I was a sponsored athlete. I was paid to be there. And so I said, I'm tired of being the person that I think everyone wants me to be. I'm going to go have a Guinness and just enjoy the day. And the amount of people that reached out to me saying, wow, thank you for just being real. That's when, that's when my whole perspective of life shifted is I'm like, wait, I can, I can help people by being honest and not pretending to be invincible. And then I have all the answers. Holy shit. was at that point that I started shifting to just being authentic and The great news is you really don't have to remember as much because if you're not lying and just being yourself, you're just being yourself. Yeah. And people can resonate and sense your energy when you're just being real. Amen. And when they meet you, which person are they meeting? ⁓ I met this Ramsey before. Now it's this total distrust. They're like, what is it? Fucking Jekyll and Hyde? What's going on here? And ironic. I played Mr. Hyde in a play in high school. Shut up. Wait, is Hyde the good one or the bad one? He's the bad one. Of course he is. That was you. Yeah. Was that an easy, authentic role for you to Well, I'll tell you one thing, Gary, if you're going around, I mean, I went to college for an emphasis in communications with emphasis in public speaking and musical theater. I was the bad guy in a lot of stuff. And I think this ties in here because I really had to learn to get in touch with my shadow side doing that. And so many of us, whether that shadow side for us is that perfectionist streak, whether it's darker than that, whatever it is, when we shame parts of us, it creates this sense of I'm less than. this, this really, this even ties into what we're saying here. Because if, if I feel I'm bad at this, I'm not good at this. And so I don't even try that I'm reinforcing that, that shame. Another one of my little Ramsey-isms is shed your shame and then reframe. Shed your shame and then reframe. Shed your shame and then reframe. Holy cow. I freaking love this. Okay. The fourth F. Future. Facts, feelings, flip it. Future. Future. What would 80 year old you tell you to do in this situation? Or if you're 80, what would 90 year old you tell you to in this situation? No. Yeah. So what you're doing is what? You're looking back. You're doing like a... Well, you're so okay. let's say in the scenario that we're listed to keep apples to apples here in the scenario of doing this marketing campaign. If I were to think, all right, what would 80 year old me tell me as I'm sitting here hesitating to send out this marketing campaign? He'd say, you know what? Just send a campaign like this isn't the end. Like no one's going, you're not going to end up on TMZ because you did like just send out the campaign and then learn from it. Right. And then In three months, no one's going to remember that you even sent this. No one's really thinking about it. What? I know, right? No way. They're going to totally remember it. They're going to lose sleep over it. You're right. mean, maybe if it's the opposition's client, they're losing sleep over it because you just went out and, know, but it's, uh, yeah. what, what, doing that does is it, shifts to get you to your old oldest, wisest self. Like it just shifts your perspective to be more objective. Cause most things that we worry about in this moment. that big of a deal. We're just so encapsulated in the moment that it feels really important by saying, all right, 40 years from now, is this going to matter? Probably not. By sending this out, I was able to learn how to get better at marketing, learn how to build better funnels, learn how to build better leads, and then I would not have any of that information if I don't start. That's part of what that does. true. There's a line in your work about how we identify with moments, successes or failures, that don't actually define us. Can you expand upon that? Let's think about how you introduced me today. Eight time Iron Man, Ramsey Bergeron. Yeah. Those were eight days of my life. I've lived a couple of more days since then and before that. So why do those eight days define me? Why am I not got let go from a sales job in 2007 Ramsey Bergeron or failed it maybe because it was on my bio. mean, that's fair. You know, it's, what, what do you use as the stories that define you? Yeah. Because a lot of times, and this really comes into play when we're changing careers, professions, firms, my identity is so tied and sometimes my identities can be so tied up in my stories. And if my identity is tied in a story and a story is a feeling which is transient, then if I change that situation, I no longer know who I am. Yeah. And I love that because that ties into a lot of marketing in regards to the great part about marketing is we get to control the narrative. but we sometimes just let the narrative control us. And so we put out stuff that's not very good about us or we show up not very attractive. We're repulsing a lot of different people in so many different ways. But I always say that we get to control our narrative. However, most people allow other people to control their narratives because of the stories that we tell. And if we're internally telling Horrible stories about ourselves guess what's gonna happen. We're not gonna get that success but if we tell great stories like I'm an a-time Iron Man like that's a huge achievement because Anybody who has knows nothing about Ironman it is one the most grueling races that you can be in and just the training for it is Months upon months upon months that yes, it's eight days, but it really isn't just eight days It's years of training and getting ready and keeping your body and your mind and your heart just fully going for it. Yeah. But then you get to choose that because like you had said, you didn't include in your bio that you were a total failure in your first sales job. You know, you get to control that narrative, but I find most people, they don't. They just put like stupid shit out there or they do stupid shit. And they don't realize that that hurts their brand. It hurts all of their marketing stuff as well. Well, I think there's some interesting points there. Like when talking about like how, well, yeah, you've done eight Ironmans. I think for me, what I do with my marketing is I want, it's also different because I'm coaching mindset, right? So I want to show people that I've used these tools and it's helped me. Here's how we can help you. And so I was doing Ironmans. Part of it was I was running from things, right? So it wasn't as much crossing the finish line. It's I had these these feelings of inferiority and I wanted to prove to myself that I matter that I could do something hard. But just like every feeling you faded, right? So I would cross the finish line. I feel great for a couple of days. And then what now? What now? What now? You close a huge case. What now? I have to go find the next one. I have to go find the next one. Where's my white whale? You killed the white whale. Where's the next white whale? So so it's when we're talking about marketing, it's one is what makes you different? Why do people want to resonate with you? And if you're showing how you overcame obstacles in a case and how you're successful, instead of I've gotten, and again, whatever your marketing strategy is for you, how many millions you've gotten your clients, it's why should people care? Why go to Gary? Why should people care? And I find that when you're authentic and you say, hey, this is what I've done to help people. You know, if, your values and who you are is showing up in your marketing, I think that's a great thing. I do too. But I think some people are scared because if I'm authentic, then I'm vulnerable. Yep. And I've had people use my vulnerability against me and that's it. Then they're just not my people. Then they're just not my client. either personally professionally people can do that and that's okay. So I think by being real and vulnerable by being open about who you are in your profession, you're going to attract the right people into your, into your circle. Amen. And that is such an important element is attracting the right people that we want to work with. You know, my wife had said to me when I was starting up the podcast, aren't you afraid that the name will push people away? And I'm like, no, I'm not afraid of that at all. In fact, I encourage it because when people show up, they know what to expect. When you read, unfuck your legal marketing and you're like, ⁓ my God, they swore during this. They're not. They're like, you know, and, and we're not swearing just to swear. We are, our filter sometimes comes on, comes off depending on our audience, how comfortable we are with them. But I am like, I want to be authentically myself, you know, even though like my father is like, I really think you should call this something different. Great. You think that I don't, right? Yeah. Hey, you know what, dad, when you launch a podcast, you call it whatever you want. You're not my target audience. You know, it's so funny. I saw I released the audio book of cake on the floor a couple of weeks ago. And I had somebody who's close to me and they're they're they're a lot more conservative than I am. He goes, I really liked your book, but I'm afraid I can't recommend it to anybody. I was like, well, why is that? goes, well, because you said damn, in your preface of the book, I said, just take the damn medicine. And so I'm afraid I can't recommend that. I'm like, well, all right. Well, I it's all right, people aren't gonna your people won't hear the message. That's okay. You know, and that's, that's what am gonna do about that? I'm not gonna go back and make it, because then I'm vanilla. I don't wanna be the lowest common denominator for everybody. So this ties back to your point about the mask we wear. I am not who I think I am. I am not who you think I am. I am who I think you think I am. I don't wanna be that person. I wanna just authentically be me. That's why I think you and I clicked, is because it's like, all right, Gary's gonna fucking tell it how it is. I'll pretend to laugh at his jokes. And so I think that that works well. Fuck you. But it's true. mean, there is that attractiveness, that magnet that people are like, ⁓ I don't know what it is about this person, but I just seem to trust them. They seem to be truthful. And that's because they are true to themselves. And when you are true to yourself, like we had said before, it's so much easier. Spend so much less time. wasting about what should I do? Should I do this? Should I be this person? Should I, don't just be yourself. Yeah. So let's, let's even use the analogy of if you go out to a restaurant at the waiter comes up to your table and he's in, he's messing up your order and is the, well the kitchen, the kitchen's, if the kitchen's fault, they, they did this and he's, doing that versus if he comes up to your table right away and says, Hey, it's my first week here. I'm still learning the menu. I'm going to give you the best service. I absolutely can. I appreciate you bearing with me. Which one are you going to cut a little bit more slack? So I think even if you're getting started doing something, be real with that. I think it was Russell Brunson who said this in his book that I really found valuable. You only have to be one chapter ahead of the people you're helping. you don't have to know everything about everything. Just be one chapter ahead. That's, that is one of the, favorite things to say when I get imposter syndrome. I just need that imposter syndrome today on my social media. Get out of here. See, I knew that. No, I'm not on social media that much. Not as much as my coach wants me to be. See, I even have a damn coach. We're, just addicted Coaches have coaches. Olympic athletes have trainers. know, it's like everyone. Yeah. We all have blind spots and we need that. We need. Somebody to not only hold us accountable, but we need that stuff the scary stuff to be said out loud It goes wow what you just told me Ramsey is what I tell myself all the time and it was scary and now it's not now that you put it in the universe I'm like, I actually think that I'm a coward for You know, I need to step up my game and not out of shame but out of I know I'm better than this and I and I can act that way as well Well, and I think once you own it, it takes the power away. You're shining a light on it and it's not there anymore. So I think when, and this ties in with leadership in general. So if you can show your team that you're human, they're much more likely to be human and open up to you. Because if you prove, if you act like you never make a mistake, you know it all. If your team has a question about something, they're not going to come to you because they don't want to seem like they're inferior. And if they make a mistake, They're not going to learn from it because they don't want to tell you about it you're going to be mad. How do you handle your, your mistakes or your learning lessons along the way? totally true. mean, all of this stuff has just been unfucking belie- unfucking believable. Yeah. But I mean, I mean, seriously, your, your four F's are so simple. They don't take very long to do, but they're so powerful and they can change things in a very dramatic way. Because I mean, honestly, if we think about what are the facts, what are our feelings, how can we flip it? And then what does our future 80 year old would say to us? So putting in reality within it as to with the wisdom, makes things so much easier. And it enables us to get over our own self and get rid of the shame of I am a piece of crap. I'll never be good at this. Again, what stories we are telling ourselves that are not helping us. But, know, it also helps us to not overthink because overthinking is underreacting. Under acting. acting. Yeah. Or reacting. Well, reacting versus responding is a big thing. There's a huge difference there. And also giving yourself permission. Stop giving yourself shame. Give your permission to do something. Give yourself permission to learn. Give yourself permission to not be perfect in any way. I just got done working with the company. I, of the things that I did, one of my little cheesy ramsayisms, I gave them a self, I created a self permission slip that they could print out. so and so give myself permission to, and then they had some lines they could fill in what they wanted to do and then sign it at the bottom. Yeah. For all of us, you know, there's, there's part of a, I have some AI tools and some reframing exercises. This is who I am. So a year from now, who do you want to be? And it's a more complicated exercise than that. But to be that person you want to be in a year. What do need to give yourself permission to do to be that person? Like what do you, to give yourself permission to start, stop? Who do I want to associate with? Who do I need to no longer associate with? What it like permissions. And I think the word permission is inherently a, a word that for me gives me a lot of progress. Cause if I say I have to, I need to, I should, that ties back into perfectionism and I shame myself and I don't do it perfectly. Or permissions like, if you want to do this, you can. I think instead of self-improvement, focus on self-compassion. And I think that is a ⁓ giant win if just as a professional, instead of self-improvement, focus on self-compassion and you will learn, you will grow and you will just have a happier life in general. my God. Yeah. And you'll be more authentically yourself, which is the key to marketing, you know, and the key to unfucking your legal marketing. So Ramsey, thank you. Thank you for being such a great guest. Anybody who's listening to this, get his book. Please kick on the floor. Get it. It's on Amazon. We're going to put the link in the show notes is in your book. Do you have ⁓ the four F's in there? Just F it. Yes. I've just F in the book. I've got the calm methods and other ones. ⁓ there's also a QR code in the back of the book. can scan it because I have some AI tools now that will walk you through the just F it, things like that. Yeah, so those tools are excellent. Yeah, and we'll also Give you his contact information his LinkedIn his Instagram. He's got a good Instagram too ⁓ But get a hold of him. He can help your team He can help you out in so many different ways to allow you to get results faster and more sustainable over a long period of time because like he had said Feelings don't last, you know, they just don't you need to have that compassion for yourself so that you can move things forward. So Ramsey, thank you. I really appreciate you. Last words. Last words. Imperfect action is better than perfect inaction. Imperfect action is better than perfect inaction. So just start. Love it. You got it. Love it. All right. Thank you. Hopefully I can have you on again. Yeah, love to. Thanks. Appreciate it. Okay. All right, buddy. That's it for today's episode of Un-Fuck Your Legal Marketing. If you got a spark of inspiration, learned something new, or at least got a good laugh, Make sure to follow, rate, and share this with someone who needs to hear it. Thanks for hanging out with me, and remember, the best marketing is the one that actually sounds like you. See you next time.