Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / How A Career Pivot At 45 Built A Purpose-Led Financial Planning Practice | Heather Hiley

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How A Career Pivot At 45 Built A Purpose-Led Financial Planning Practice | Heather Hiley · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:00
  Sam Oakes: And today's guest on the financial panel life, of course, is Heather Heiney.
• 0:03
  Sam Oakes: She is from Heather Heine Financial Planning.
• 0:06
  Sam Oakes: She is a Palmer practice of St.
• 0:08
  Sam Oakes: James's Place.
• 0:08
  Sam Oakes: We talk about her Mike Wilson Award for giving back to St.
• 0:12
  Sam Oakes: James's Place.
• 0:13
  Heather Hiley: I've not been able to go back and sort of share.
• 0:15
  Heather Hiley: And there's a few few things I know I did along my way that really, really made a difference.
• 0:20
  Heather Hiley: So it's it's great to be able to give back.
• 0:23
  Sam Oakes: We talk about her career transition from retail, e-commerce, into financial planning at the age of 45.
• 0:30
  Heather Hiley: If you're in the e-commerce space particularly, it's um it's very analytical.
• 0:35
  Heather Hiley: Um so you're likely to have really, really good analytical skills.
• 0:40
  Sam Oakes: We talk about her business development, what she does to win clients, and how financial education in schools to youngsters, teenagers, and adults is helped her generate a ton of clients.
• 0:52
  Sam Oakes: I hope you enjoy the episode.
• 0:53
  Sam Oakes: So, Heather, thank you so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast.
• 1:17
  Sam Oakes: How are you?
• 1:18
  Heather Hiley: I'm good, thanks for having me.
• 1:20
  Sam Oakes: You're welcome.
• 1:21
  Sam Oakes: So I'll tell you what, great place to start, which I always do, is just tell us who you are and how you got into the financial planning profession.
• 1:29
  Heather Hiley: Okay, so so I'm Heather.
• 1:31
  Heather Hiley: Um I'm from Heather Highly Financial Planning, clueing the name.
• 1:35
  Heather Hiley: Um, and um yeah, I'm a partner practice with them with St James's Place.
• 1:40
  Heather Hiley: Um, so so my um I'm a I am a true career changer.
• 1:44
  Heather Hiley: Um so I started my life as a finance management trainee in MS um a few years ago, a fair few years ago.
• 1:51
  Heather Hiley: And um so yeah, I had a passion for numbers, um, but quite quickly realised I actually had more of a passion for the commercial, the making the money.
• 1:59
  Heather Hiley: Um so moved across, had a career with MS as a store manager, moved across to Tesco as a store manager, um and then I'd always had a passion to work for myself, so I um moved across and started a business with my husband, uh a furniture retail business, uh, which we had for 10 years.
• 2:17
  Heather Hiley: So I was a business owner uh at that point, and that was um 21 years ago.
• 2:22
  Heather Hiley: So I have now pretty much worked for myself 21 years, um, which is um yeah, doesn't come without its challenges.
• 2:31
  Heather Hiley: Um, but yeah, so I so so we had this business.
• 2:34
  Heather Hiley: Um, I'm sure we'll pick up later um Sam about what what happened within that business.
• 2:39
  Heather Hiley: We did exit out of that business, um, and then for those years thereon I consulted and also had um a couple of other um businesses on the side, and and it was during those years that I realised that as um business owners, there's so much we have to think about with our finances.
• 2:55
  Heather Hiley: And for you know, total transparency, I probably had 10 years where I didn't pay into a pension, which you know, as I now know, was not the right thing to have done because we had some fantastic years that could have put me in a in a better place than I'm in um right now.
• 3:10
  Heather Hiley: Um, so yeah, so I had I still had this hankering for the finance world, it never went away.
• 3:16
  Heather Hiley: So even though I I made that transition, it was there.
• 3:19
  Heather Hiley: Um, consulting, you're helping people, you're helping people's skills, you're helping people's businesses.
• 3:25
  Heather Hiley: Um, so as I started to uh hunt for my next thing, um really financial planning was the thing that started to come into my into my head because it had it had always been there and I got it.
• 3:40
  Sam Oakes: Right, and it stopped you there because how old were you when you first I suppose you learnt about financial planning as a career?
• 3:51
  Heather Hiley: Um I suppose I started to think about it around my early 40s.
• 3:56
  Heather Hiley: Early 40s.
• 3:57
  Heather Hiley: Yeah, early 40s, and actually transitioned into it at 45.
• 4:03
  Sam Oakes: At 45 years old, okay.
• 4:04
  Sam Oakes: So you went through the St.
• 4:05
  Sam Oakes: James's Place Academy then.
• 4:07
  Heather Hiley: I did.
• 4:08
  Heather Hiley: I did, yes.
• 4:08
  Heather Hiley: I joined the Academy when I was 45.
• 4:10
  Heather Hiley: Yeah.
• 4:11
  Sam Oakes: Brilliant.
• 4:11
  Sam Oakes: So the SJP Academy is a fantastic place for career switches.
• 4:17
  Sam Oakes: And I've had some great great people come on the podcast and met some amazing people switch from all different backgrounds, all different careers.
• 4:23
  Sam Oakes: Um some of the most successful, the ones that have run their own businesses before.
• 4:28
  Sam Oakes: It doesn't have to be that they've come from a finance background.
• 4:32
  Sam Oakes: They have those transferables here that will make you resilient as a as a financial planner, right?
• 4:45
  Heather Hiley: Yeah, and you definitely need resilience.
• 4:49
  Sam Oakes: You definitely need resilience.
• 4:50
  Sam Oakes: So let's just talk a little bit about that journey then into SJP.
• 4:54
  Sam Oakes: So, how did you find out about the academy and how did you get involved?
• 4:58
  Sam Oakes: What convinced you that that was the right route?
• 5:00
  Sam Oakes: Did you look elsewhere?
• 5:01
  Sam Oakes: Did you look at the open market, or did they do just a bloody good job of convincing you that that was the right part?
• 5:07
  Heather Hiley: Um so so I did look everywhere, um, but only scratching the surface everywhere, if I'm honest.
• 5:13
  Heather Hiley: Um, once I got more involved with SJP, um for me it just felt right.
• 5:20
  Heather Hiley: And I think one thing I've always trusted throughout working for myself is is my gut.
• 5:25
  Heather Hiley: Um so if my gut says it feels right, it's generally been right.
• 5:29
  Heather Hiley: Um, and yeah, once I started on that journey with SJP, I actually stopped conversations with others because I knew it felt right.
• 5:36
  Heather Hiley: It also offered the opportunity to still work for myself and change career, um, which wasn't necessarily the case everywhere that I looked.
• 5:45
  Heather Hiley: Okay.
• 5:45
  Heather Hiley: And you know, when you've worked for yourself for a long time, working for someone else is is is a big deal.
• 5:51
  Sam Oakes: No, 100%.
• 5:52
  Sam Oakes: And that's what I suppose the SJP Academy will offer you is the ability to work for yourself.
• 5:56
  Sam Oakes: There are two routes, isn't there?
• 5:57
  Sam Oakes: There's the route in as a partner, running your own partner practice, and then there's working underneath a partner practice as a financial planner.
• 6:04
  Sam Oakes: Both can offer self self-employment, uh, but one gives you the autonomy to run your business how you want to run it, the other is you're working under an existing partner practice.
• 6:13
  Sam Oakes: Um both avenues allow you to generate your own clients, um, but one allows you to run your business the way you want to run it, whereas the other one you have to buy your clients from that business that you join a little bit later on down the line, but could be a useful pathway for somebody that might just not be quite confident yet in respect of running their own their own part of practice.
• 6:33
  Heather Hiley: Definitely, Sam.
• 6:34
  Heather Hiley: And I think had I not had the business experience, I'd have taken that route.
• 6:38
  Heather Hiley: Um, but having been a business owner for a long time, running a business was the bit that was easy, the bit that was comfortable.
• 6:45
  Heather Hiley: Um, it was the financial planning, the financial services bit that I needed to really master.
• 6:50
  Sam Oakes: Well, talk to us about that then.
• 6:51
  Sam Oakes: So the financial planning bit was the bit you needed to master.
• 6:53
  Sam Oakes: Tell us a little bit about your early days journeys and how you approached that, what the training in development's like.
• 6:59
  Heather Hiley: Yeah, so so so as you said, I I came all the way through Academy, so obviously you know, take qualifications and then come into Academy and learn the the skill of working with clients and supporting clients and helping clients.
• 7:12
  Heather Hiley: Um the Academy um was fantastic for me.
• 7:16
  Heather Hiley: It did give me what I needed in terms of literally almost from start to finish of the process of you know learning the turning the theory into practice and actually coming out at the end, being able to sit with the clients and and go through the process and advise.
• 7:31
  Heather Hiley: Um but it's a bit like drive, it's a bit like learning to drive a car.
• 7:35
  Heather Hiley: Um you know, you take your test and you get that pass, and then you actually go out and do it, and then you really learn.
• 7:42
  Heather Hiley: Um, so I think that first period after coming out of the true academy bit, you know, if you like, where it's sort of classroom learning type type, um, was was the biggest, you know, the biggest learning curve of this whole process.
• 7:57
  Heather Hiley: Um, because actually, once you're with a real client, it's it's slightly different to theory.
• 8:03
  Sam Oakes: So those that are listening right now and just want to know how long that classroom element actually takes and what was covered within it and what you found beneficial.
• 8:10
  Sam Oakes: Tell us how long that took and what you learned during that period.
• 8:14
  Heather Hiley: Yeah, so that period's um just under three months, um, and that takes you from where you've got your qualification, um, and then literally we'll build on all of the different uh all of the different aspects of a of a client journey, really.
• 8:25
  Heather Hiley: Um so it's very, very client focused, it's very much about learning the the art and the skill of of you know of of exploring your client of fact-finding of all of those things, and then it takes you on to actually formulating advice and and so on.
• 8:40
  Heather Hiley: So it takes you through that whole process.
• 8:42
  Heather Hiley: And what's brilliant about the academy is each week you sort of build on that next step and next step, so that by the time you get to the end of that quarter, you're actually able to bring it all together and and effectively deliver it in a role-play manner, um to prove that you actually can go out there and do the job.
• 8:58
  Heather Hiley: Um, so for someone like me who's who I like to know everything to be able to do something, it the the sort of um structure and the the logic of the structure really worked for me.
• 9:09
  Sam Oakes: Okay, so you've gone through the academy, you've got your qualifications, you've learned the blueprint, how to be a financial planner, what to do, what the meetings are like, etc.
• 9:15
  Sam Oakes: So you're away, off you go, and you start to run your own business.
• 9:19
  Sam Oakes: What was it like within your first year?
• 9:21
  Sam Oakes: What's the realities of running your partner practice on your own within the first year, self-employed as a financial planner?
• 9:27
  Heather Hiley: Yeah, so the reality is it's quiet, right?
• 9:30
  Heather Hiley: It's it's you know, if you if you wanted to get up on a Monday morning and just sit and look at a blank screen, you you can, um, because that that is the reality, you know, no clients.
• 9:40
  Heather Hiley: So I started filming complete base, like like many of us do.
• 9:43
  Heather Hiley: Um, nothing in your diary, you know, and you create everything.
• 9:48
  Heather Hiley: And so and I think that's where having the business experience really helped me because one of the things I'd always learn to my businesses is I never have an empty diary, like you never ever have nothing in your diary.
• 9:58
  Heather Hiley: If there's something every single day, there should be something planned in your diary.
• 10:02
  Heather Hiley: Um, so and the reality is, you know, if you if you've got responsibilities, then you want to earn money as well.
• 10:09
  Heather Hiley: So there's this I want to go out and do it in the right way, but I also need to earn money, and and and I think that's quite a hard balance for a lot of people coming in.
• 10:16
  Heather Hiley: Um, I was um, I suppose having the business experience and built business before.
• 10:22
  Heather Hiley: I didn't have a lot of expectation of what I would earn in year one, um, if I'm honest.
• 10:26
  Heather Hiley: It doesn't mean I don't want to, but I didn't have a lot of expectations.
• 10:29
  Heather Hiley: So um, so for me it was it was go out and do everything to build the right reputation, just get out there and make people realise that I'm not retail heather anymore.
• 10:38
  Heather Hiley: I am a financial planner, I am a financial advisor, and actually, you know, 20 odd years of being in retail, I needed to make sure the world knew that I was now doing something different.
• 10:49
  Heather Hiley: Um, so that's how I approached it.
• 10:50
  Heather Hiley: So for me, it was network, like anywhere, everywhere, socially, business, you know, and social media.
• 10:58
  Heather Hiley: Um, so that was that was what sort of my my approach.
• 11:01
  Sam Oakes: So a bit of face-to-face in respect to going out when you say networking, networking, face-to-face, and then you double double that up with a bit of social media presence as well.
• 11:09
  Sam Oakes: Okay, you didn't just put your hat on one thing, you you mixed it up with both.
• 11:14
  Sam Oakes: And how did that work out?
• 11:15
  Sam Oakes: Where did you start to get your business from first?
• 11:18
  Heather Hiley: Yeah, so um so so so my model, and it still is today, it hasn't changed, is that I make sure I'm visible physically.
• 11:26
  Heather Hiley: I think personally I connect with people well in person.
• 11:29
  Heather Hiley: I think that is one of my skills, is that I can talk to people and I can talk.
• 11:34
  Heather Hiley: Um, so I don't struggle to go out and connect with people.
• 11:37
  Heather Hiley: So for me, my model is still go out and do that.
• 11:39
  Heather Hiley: And whether that is just my own social life or whether that is formal business networking, it doesn't matter.
• 11:45
  Heather Hiley: Um, and then make sure that everybody I meet I connect with online, um, predominantly through LinkedIn, but also through uh through Instagram, which actually surprised me um in terms of what that's done for me, and I'll I'll talk about that later, maybe.
• 11:57
  Heather Hiley: Um, but yeah, so it's and then make sure that I then post and interact online.
• 12:04
  Heather Hiley: It's not just about posting, it's also about being social online.
• 12:06
  Heather Hiley: So it's twofold, it's meet in person and then make sure that people still know I'm there all the time and actually add some value so that maybe it resonates with them over time.
• 12:16
  Sam Oakes: Before you started, did you build a business plan?
• 12:19
  Sam Oakes: Did you put something together where you were gonna go, right?
• 12:21
  Sam Oakes: These are the people I'm gonna target, these are networking events I'm gonna go to, these are people that I've worked with previously that I feel might want to use me and my services.
• 12:31
  Sam Oakes: Did you do that?
• 12:33
  Heather Hiley: I did.
• 12:33
  Heather Hiley: Yeah.
• 12:34
  Heather Hiley: So part of the process with SJP is that you need a business plan.
• 12:37
  Heather Hiley: Um, and and if I'm honest, the business plan is more of a marketing plan than a business plan, truly.
• 12:42
  Heather Hiley: You know, it is actually how are we going to grow this business?
• 12:45
  Heather Hiley: Um, so yeah, so I had a I had I had a very clear business plan.
• 12:49
  Heather Hiley: I was told by some people in SJP that it was I was going to be too busy because I was trying to hit lots of different things.
• 12:55
  Heather Hiley: However, my belief was always go out and do everything and then and then learn from that and then shape and from there.
• 13:04
  Heather Hiley: And that's how I built businesses before is you know, try you you start somewhere, you have a plan, but actually sometimes that plan is taken in different directions, and that's okay.
• 13:12
  Sam Oakes: Um and did that happen with you then?
• 13:16
  Heather Hiley: Did that happen with me in this business?
• 13:18
  Heather Hiley: Yeah, absolutely.
• 13:19
  Heather Hiley: Yeah, absolutely.
• 13:20
  Heather Hiley: So um there was things on my business plan that I went out and tried, and that and then they didn't, you know, they didn't come to fruition, and that's okay, because I just said, right, we still you know I stopped doing that, and I and I moved to the things that are actually you know producing results, um, but also that I'm enjoying because I do believe if you're enjoying something, it will produce results longer term.
• 13:40
  Sam Oakes: And were those things that you started to enjoy and you started to produce results from, can you share what that was and were they part of the business plan or did they materialize through trial and error?
• 13:51
  Heather Hiley: Um, yeah, so there's probably a bit of both, really.
• 13:54
  Heather Hiley: So, you know, certain certain networking groups versus others, um, I wanted to look at the financial education uh world.
• 14:02
  Heather Hiley: So SJP um partner with Red Start, which is um the material is fantastic to go into sort of schools and education settings and deliver that education.
• 14:11
  Heather Hiley: Um I've always sort of supported giving back into education anyway, so that was sort of right up my street.
• 14:17
  Heather Hiley: But actually, whether it produced results, initially for me I didn't worry about too much, um, but but it has.
• 14:24
  Heather Hiley: Um so actually to do more of that, you know, is is is fills fills me with you know what I want to achieve, which is give something back um while I'm in you know in this space, but also does does does give me the visibility and and does actually lead clients to you as well.
• 14:42
  Sam Oakes: So interesting.
• 14:42
  Sam Oakes: Let's let's look into that then.
• 14:44
  Sam Oakes: So delivering financial education, are we talking to children?
• 14:47
  Sam Oakes: Are we talking to young adults?
• 14:48
  Sam Oakes: Are we talking to adults?
• 14:49
  Heather Hiley: Um yeah, so I've done them all.
• 14:52
  Heather Hiley: Yeah, so I've done um into children in primary school age, um, so five to seven year olds and then 10 to 11 year olds.
• 14:58
  Heather Hiley: The 10, 11-year-olds um workshop is is fantastic and it really does um grab them.
• 15:03
  Heather Hiley: Um, I've done some work with 16 to 18 year olds in colleges, um, and then I've done some work with adults um either in community groups or also in businesses.
• 15:12
  Heather Hiley: So I have done um sort of different levels.
• 15:16
  Sam Oakes: Okay, and then let's look at the school one because it's a lot of people that get stuck into going in and giving back in the schools.
• 15:21
  Sam Oakes: I think giving back is a great way to build brand.
• 15:24
  Sam Oakes: I think it's non it's not intrusive, it's quite um altruistic, and I think people look at it and go, wow, that person's actually giving up their time to deliver some educational content to our children.
• 15:34
  Sam Oakes: Teachers might watch it and go, that's really interesting.
• 15:37
  Sam Oakes: So I'm keen to understand how you would turn that into a moneymaker.
• 15:41
  Sam Oakes: So if I took 365 days a year and I went out and just did financial education for free, could I could I make money out of it?
• 15:48
  Sam Oakes: And how have you done it in the capacity that you have?
• 15:50
  Sam Oakes: And and which age group has actually led you to a client.
• 15:55
  Heather Hiley: Okay, so I genuinely don't go in and do it to create business.
• 16:00
  Heather Hiley: Okay.
• 16:00
  Heather Hiley: Yeah, so I think I think I think that's why it works.
• 16:04
  Heather Hiley: Because I if I think if you go and do something that you are truly believe in and are passionate about, then and yes, I do then share on my social media because it does build trust and it does give credibility.
• 16:16
  Heather Hiley: So that's how that's how I that's how I monetize it, I suppose.
• 16:19
  Heather Hiley: Um, I do share it, I do share to to people out there that I'm doing that.
• 16:23
  Heather Hiley: But actually, I think it starts with go and do something you're truly passionate about, don't do something you believe in, and actually other things follow.
• 16:30
  Heather Hiley: Um, and I think I've I I've I've probably always worked my life like that.
• 16:34
  Heather Hiley: So I've always been involved in in education, I've been on a governing uh body, I've been chair of governors, I'm now a trustee of a multi-academy trust, and I've done those things now over 15 years, so that's not something new for me, and it has allowed me to get into the financial education space and deliver these programs.
• 16:51
  Heather Hiley: Um, but actually, that's the person I was before.
• 16:54
  Heather Hiley: So for people seeing me doing it, it's not just for money.
• 16:57
  Heather Hiley: However, does it help?
• 16:58
  Heather Hiley: Of course it does, it absolutely does, as long as you share it, as long as people know about it.
• 17:06
  Sam Oakes: Didn't you win some of you won an award as well, didn't you, with St.
• 17:09
  Sam Oakes: James's Place?
• 17:10
  Sam Oakes: The Mike Wilson Award.
• 17:12
  Sam Oakes: So just tell us a little bit about that Mike Wilson Award.
• 17:14
  Sam Oakes: Does that tie into education?
• 17:16
  Heather Hiley: Yeah, it does, absolutely.
• 17:17
  Heather Hiley: Yeah, you're spot on.
• 17:18
  Heather Hiley: Um, so it's um so the Mike Wilson Award is for all-round contribution, um, Academy Partner of 2024.
• 17:26
  Heather Hiley: Um, didn't have a clue about it, didn't know I'd been entered for it, which is even better because when you get that call, it's just pretty amazing.
• 17:33
  Heather Hiley: Um, and and and when I, you know, when I talked to them about why, you know, why why me, um, they very much talked about the fact that I I embraced everything.
• 17:43
  Heather Hiley: Um, so yes, I built a business, uh, you know, the business is is is on its way to being successful, or maybe at this stage already successful.
• 17:52
  Heather Hiley: Um it it was also about um charity work, about work in the financial education sector, it was about engaging within SJP, um, so making sure that I, you know, got to know people in that business and have taken help from others, but also given help um back where I can, even at even at my fairly early stage.
• 18:12
  Heather Hiley: Um, yeah, so it was it was deemed sort of overall contribution.
• 18:17
  Sam Oakes: Did you yeah, lovely, I love it.
• 18:18
  Sam Oakes: Uh did you in respect of your own partner practice at the moment, how long have you been growing that for?
• 18:24
  Heather Hiley: So I came out of sort of true academy um February 23.
• 18:29
  unknown: Yeah.
• 18:29
  Heather Hiley: Um so just over the two-year mark.
• 18:31
  Heather Hiley: Yeah, so feels like a lot longer.
• 18:36
  Sam Oakes: Have you have you built any employees yet?
• 18:39
  Sam Oakes: Is it just yourself?
• 18:40
  Sam Oakes: Have you got employees?
• 18:41
  Sam Oakes: How do you support, you know, how do you support the administration power planning?
• 18:44
  Sam Oakes: And you've got aspirations to build it for a business to give them this up for a different way.
• 18:48
  Sam Oakes: Absolutely.
• 18:49
  Heather Hiley: Yeah, so so I I came into this, um, and I think I touched on this before.
• 18:54
  Heather Hiley: So I had a business plan, but the business plan was more around what I did.
• 18:58
  Heather Hiley: Um, and I've employed people in my in my own businesses for a long, long time.
• 19:02
  Heather Hiley: Um, so I've actually enjoyed a little bit of a period of time of it of not employing people um because it's just quite hassle-free.
• 19:11
  Heather Hiley: Um, however, I also miss it, so you know I say that lighthearted.
• 19:15
  Heather Hiley: Um, so at the moment I outsource, so I outsource admin and I outsource power planning.
• 19:19
  Heather Hiley: So, yes, I have the support, couldn't do what I'm doing without the support, and and those people are fantastic.
• 19:25
  Heather Hiley: Um, I will grow.
• 19:27
  Heather Hiley: Um, I think now I'm in it, now I'm in this space, now I've you know got my confidence in this space.
• 19:33
  Heather Hiley: Um, yeah, I absolutely will grow.
• 19:35
  Heather Hiley: And I've I'm already sitting down, I've got a bit of a sort of um loose business plan to bring an advisor in at some point.
• 19:40
  Heather Hiley: So, yeah.
• 19:41
  Sam Oakes: Oh, lovely.
• 19:42
  Sam Oakes: Okay.
• 19:42
  Sam Oakes: But when did you start to feel like it it it was starting to make sense as a financial planner?
• 19:47
  Sam Oakes: But you were you knew that you were going to start to make money or you were starting to make money, you started to to generate clients or referrals.
• 19:54
  Sam Oakes: When did that when did that start to happen?
• 19:57
  Heather Hiley: Yeah, so I came out in February twenty three and I remember.
• 19:59
  Heather Hiley: Hitting New Year's Day of so 1st of January 2024.
• 20:04
  Heather Hiley: And have I got that about those dates right?
• 20:08
  Heather Hiley: Yes, I think.
• 20:09
  Heather Hiley: You know, when you think, gosh, the years are going by.
• 20:12
  Heather Hiley: So I came out and I remember New Year's Day, I started getting messages from people saying that you know they were obviously hitting the new year.
• 20:18
  Heather Hiley: And literally that week, I think I got something, and I can't remember the exact number.
• 20:22
  Heather Hiley: Nine of 10 people contacted me in that first week of the new year.
• 20:25
  Heather Hiley: And I was like, okay, I've got a business now.
• 20:28
  Heather Hiley: Like, you know, that work I put in, that networking, that sort of those social media, that getting out there, making sure people are aware of that I'm now in this space, not in retail anymore.
• 20:38
  Heather Hiley: Um, that's that was the moment when literally it was okay, it I'm here.
• 20:42
  Heather Hiley: Like people now are coming to me because they're ready.
• 20:46
  Heather Hiley: So um, yeah, and really literally from there on it it flowed.
• 20:50
  Heather Hiley: Um, whereas those sort of 10 months before had been a bit stop, start, stop, start.
• 20:55
  Sam Oakes: So I know somebody who just talked about New Year's resolutions and New Year, you know, New Year's financial resolutions.
• 21:00
  Sam Oakes: He runs a financial resolutions uh workshop over uh the the the the the foot you know in between Christmas, so so Christmas and New Year, he puts it in there and then obviously puts it over in the new year as well.
• 21:12
  Sam Oakes: Absolutely fills up online webinars with people.
• 21:16
  Sam Oakes: So if you put you know, like a like a three-day workshop.
• 21:22
  Sam Oakes: Over over these five days, I've got you know a hundred slots available.
• 21:25
  Sam Oakes: If you want to come in and start to work out what your financial resolution should be, whether that's working how much, you know, how much you've got for retirement, or are your savings in the right place?
• 21:35
  Sam Oakes: And I'll build out a financial New Year's resolution plan for you.
• 21:39
  Sam Oakes: So by the end of it, you know what you've got to do.
• 21:41
  Sam Oakes: And like absolutely is inbox gets filled because everyone's off work and everyone's thinking about it, and everyone's kind of coming to that end of the year thinking, damn it, I don't know what the hell I'm doing next year.
• 21:50
  Sam Oakes: Like I promised myself, well, you said it yourself, right?
• 21:52
  Sam Oakes: And you must come across people who are self-employed that don't have pensions in place, right?
• 21:56
  Sam Oakes: And you don't like it's it's quite a normal it's quite a normal thing for entrepreneurs and people who run their own businesses to to not think about their pension, right?
• 22:03
  Sam Oakes: Is that is that a key area that you're generating business in?
• 22:05
  Sam Oakes: You know, are you finding those types of clients in that space?
• 22:08
  Heather Hiley: Absolutely.
• 22:09
  Heather Hiley: And you know, one of the things I said when I came in was I can work with self-employed and business owners because I get it.
• 22:13
  Heather Hiley: I've been there and I felt that same way, and I have not thought about those things, you know.
• 22:17
  Heather Hiley: So it's it is like you say, it's normal.
• 22:18
  Heather Hiley: So yeah, I attract a lot of um sort of small business owners and and the self-employed for that reason.
• 22:24
  Heather Hiley: And it is an absolute pleasure to know that you're doing something that will long term really make a difference and you know helps with the whole tax thing as well.
• 22:32
  Sam Oakes: Just reflecting on your previous experience, then so you said you worked in retail.
• 22:36
  Sam Oakes: What was it you were actually doing?
• 22:39
  Sam Oakes: And how did you feel that that experience helped you transition into financial planning?
• 22:45
  Sam Oakes: If someone was sitting in retail now in the position that you were in, you did a bit of e-commerce towards the end, but you were consultant businesses as well, right?
• 22:51
  Sam Oakes: But like how did it, how did it help you transition into financial planning?
• 22:55
  Sam Oakes: Because lots of people probably sitting in a retail capacity thinking or e-commerce capacity thinking, do you know what?
• 23:00
  Sam Oakes: I wouldn't mind a wouldn't mind a career change.
• 23:04
  Heather Hiley: Yeah, so I think I think if you're in the e-commerce space particularly, it's um it's very analytical.
• 23:10
  Heather Hiley: Um, so you're likely to have really, really good analytical skills.
• 23:15
  Heather Hiley: Um, and I know we talk a lot about with our what role, it's about people connection, and it absolutely is.
• 23:19
  Heather Hiley: I mean it really, really is.
• 23:21
  Heather Hiley: But actually, having um an analytical mind or or a curious mind at least around figures can I think can help.
• 23:27
  Heather Hiley: Um, I don't think it's key, I don't think everyone needs to have it, but I do think it can really help.
• 23:31
  Heather Hiley: Um, so I think that's that's something from an e-commerce side, I think it is powerful for anybody coming across.
• 23:39
  Heather Hiley: I think for me it was slightly different because my background wasn't e-commerce, it was true retail, and it was and then and I think then mainly running businesses.
• 23:47
  Heather Hiley: Um, so for me, the the the transition across having been a business owner means when I sit in front of a business owner and I've got business owners now who have lost businesses, I've got business owners that are selling businesses, I've got business owners that are starting businesses, I've got business owners that are really growing businesses, and I've done all of those things, might not be in the same industry, might not be in the same scale.
• 24:10
  Heather Hiley: It doesn't matter, you know, the power of being able to truly understand and talk to them about those things.
• 24:16
  Heather Hiley: And you know, our conversations go off in all sorts of tangents because I love listening to people that are in business and and what they're doing, um, but actually, it allows me to really get in and really support them.
• 24:27
  Sam Oakes: Interesting.
• 24:28
  Sam Oakes: So that's quite a cool market for you, then dealing with business owners.
• 24:30
  Sam Oakes: That's that's sort of bread and butter, that's where you feel the most comfortable.
• 24:33
  Sam Oakes: I'm intrigued by business owners as well.
• 24:36
  Sam Oakes: Being one yeah, I did 17 years of running my own business.
• 24:39
  Sam Oakes: Um it's weird actually going from so I'm now employed on one side and then self-employed on the other.
• 24:44
  Sam Oakes: So I've got foot in both camps, which by the way is stress is stressful.
• 24:50
  Heather Hiley: I think you've done well to go back to being employed.
• 24:52
  Heather Hiley: I think when you've worked for yourself for a long time, that's um that's quite a different shift.
• 24:58
  Sam Oakes: Well, I'm looking at it, the way I've got to look at it in my head is um it's like I'm consulting.
• 25:03
  Sam Oakes: That's the way I look at it.
• 25:05
  Sam Oakes: Yes.
• 25:05
  Sam Oakes: So I've got I've got my own business over here, which is my my baby, and then I'm in another business, and I'm using my experience here to consult on this business here.
• 25:12
  Sam Oakes: So I don't think the employee hat is a hat that I wear very well, and I suspect anybody in here will tell you that it's it's it's hard when you've you when you've worked the way that you've wanted to work for some time.
• 25:23
  Sam Oakes: Um very, very difficult to adjust yourself, basically.
• 25:28
  Sam Oakes: I find it hard anyway.
• 25:29
  Sam Oakes: Um, but I'm grateful for the experience because it's teaching me a lot by being employed, especially within financial planning, which is I've never been employed within financial planning.
• 25:37
  Sam Oakes: And the reason I did it was because I wanted to gain that level of experience.
• 25:40
  Sam Oakes: Like I ran my own recruitment business, I've got my own podcast marketing agency, I talk to financial planners day in, day out.
• 25:45
  Sam Oakes: But to be in here and behind the scenes and to see how it operates and how it works was is a great experience in education for me and one that I'm grateful, I'm grateful for.
• 25:56
  Sam Oakes: Um have you gone back into St.
• 25:58
  Sam Oakes: James's place and delivered any training or development based on your personal experience?
• 26:03
  Heather Hiley: Yeah, so I've been invited um back into Academy um a couple of times to go and and and really share how I've built a business um from scratch, um, because it's not easy, you know.
• 26:15
  Heather Hiley: Uh no one would ever say to you it's easy.
• 26:17
  Heather Hiley: However, there are people out there that that want to give that a go, um, regardless of what their background is, as you say, it doesn't matter.
• 26:24
  Heather Hiley: Um, so yeah, so I've I've I've been invited back in.
• 26:27
  Heather Hiley: Um, I love doing that stuff.
• 26:29
  Heather Hiley: Um, I love being able to go back and sort of share.
• 26:32
  Heather Hiley: Um, you know, and there's a few key things I know I did along my way that really, really made a difference.
• 26:37
  Heather Hiley: So it's it's great to be able to give back.
• 26:40
  Heather Hiley: I mean, the one thing with SJP I found coming through is that everyone is so happy to help.
• 26:45
  Heather Hiley: You know, other partners will will step in and help you.
• 26:47
  Heather Hiley: So being able to do that for others.
• 26:50
  Heather Hiley: So as I say, I've gone back in and done some sessions with an academy, but also some of the development managers will hook certain individuals up with me so I can just have a bit of a sort of matter to them, really, and share some of what I've done and to help them, which which I love.
• 27:06
  Sam Oakes: Good.
• 27:06
  Sam Oakes: Giving back and helping others.
• 27:08
  Sam Oakes: And do you find that that early do you find that that early part of your career now that you're actually in that you it's funny because someone might go, I haven't got enough experience to be able to train somebody or to, but it is almost like that.
• 27:20
  Sam Oakes: The better, the the quicker that you can the quicker that someone can show you what year one looks like or year two, once they're it whilst they're in it, I think there's such a huge benefit.
• 27:29
  Sam Oakes: Having the person who's 10 years down the line with half a billion under management, isn't it's aspirational, but you know, you you need to hear the person say it's bloody hard, like you know, it's a real struggle, and this is how I deal with it, and it's normal to be pulling your hair out and not knowing what you're doing, or wondering where you're gonna get business on, and thinking, why have I done this?
• 27:48
  Sam Oakes: You know, it's normal and it's nice, it's nice to hear those, isn't it?
• 27:50
  Sam Oakes: It's nice to be able to identify with someone who's who's going through that process a little bit earlier on and could kind of uh reflect on what they're doing to get over those hurdles or what they've learned to get over those hurdles.
• 28:00
  Sam Oakes: I think that's a key thing, and that's what I like about SJP.
• 28:02
  Sam Oakes: A lot of giving back goes on, not just from the partnership as a whole, but from individual advisors coming and sharing stuff very, very early on, because that's the most impactful time to actually do that, right?
• 28:12
  Heather Hiley: Yeah, absolutely.
• 28:13
  Heather Hiley: And it and it carries on.
• 28:14
  Heather Hiley: So, you know, at my stage now, there's still partners that may be two, three, four years ahead of me that will come and do the same with me.
• 28:20
  Heather Hiley: And it is, it's it's it's really powerful.
• 28:22
  Heather Hiley: I do remember the first time they asked me, I was like, What me?
• 28:24
  Heather Hiley: Come and talk.
• 28:25
  Heather Hiley: Like, I'm just getting going.
• 28:27
  Heather Hiley: Um, but actually you're right, it's absolutely the time because you're still fresh in it, you're still feeling it, you can almost share the the reality of it.
• 28:34
  Sam Oakes: So yeah.
• 28:34
  Sam Oakes: Um what about um what about the future for you?
• 28:40
  Sam Oakes: So when you got into financial planning and you sat down and you uh you looked at the blueprint, if you like, for St James's place, what did what excited you about it?
• 28:50
  Sam Oakes: Because it is an ecosystem where you can build a business and you can eventually exit, right?
• 28:55
  Sam Oakes: Tell us a little bit about the things that excited you about the the blueprint or the future of being an SJP partner practice.
• 29:03
  Heather Hiley: Yeah, so I think as you say, there is a there's a clear way in and there is a clear way out um with SJP.
• 29:10
  Heather Hiley: And I think having had my own businesses where there was never that clear way out, um, it did offer a lot of security.
• 29:18
  Heather Hiley: Um and and you know, and I I think that that's something that for a lot of people coming in, um, I I will often talk to them about what's your exit plan.
• 29:28
  Heather Hiley: And I mean, if you'd have asked me that 20 years ago when I started my first business, you know, what's your exit plan?
• 29:33
  Heather Hiley: I'd have gone, what?
• 29:34
  Heather Hiley: Like this is it for life.
• 29:35
  Heather Hiley: Foolishly, how naive I was.
• 29:38
  Heather Hiley: Um, but you know, I would have said that.
• 29:40
  Heather Hiley: That's literally what I would have said.
• 29:41
  Heather Hiley: Whereas now I'm I'm far more realistic about um, you know, that there's there's different there's different avenues and there's different ways for me potentially to exit.
• 29:49
  Heather Hiley: Um, not that that's what I'm thinking about right now, but but it is you're right, the ecosystem of of SJP is is powerful in that it allows that.
• 29:58
  Heather Hiley: But that's really important for clients as well.
• 30:00
  Heather Hiley: So I have had clients say to me, you know, what happens when you retire, Heather?
• 30:04
  Heather Hiley: You know, and it's brilliant to be able to say, well, it it won't just happen like that, and I'm gone and you don't know what to do, you know.
• 30:10
  Heather Hiley: This is this is this is how it works in in SJP, and and I do think a lot of clients really like that.
• 30:15
  Sam Oakes: Right.
• 30:16
  Sam Oakes: Do you have your eyes on buying out partner practices?
• 30:19
  Sam Oakes: Is that something that's part of your strategy as well?
• 30:22
  Sam Oakes: So as retiring IFAs exit out of SJP, are you looking at buying client books and and building your business that way?
• 30:29
  Heather Hiley: Yeah, so potentially.
• 30:30
  Heather Hiley: I think to to bring in an advisor, um, it's something that I've got to consider.
• 30:34
  Heather Hiley: Um but for me it would have to be the right the right person and the right location um to make it work.
• 30:41
  Heather Hiley: Um so I'm quite I'm probably quite specific about what I would what I would buy, but that's okay.
• 30:46
  Heather Hiley: You know, that that's that that's fine.
• 30:47
  Heather Hiley: Um but yeah, to grow, I think there's there's a reality that that that will probably happen.
• 30:52
  Heather Hiley: Um and you know, I want to make sure that if I bring an advisor in, there's plenty obviously there for them um to be able to work with.
• 30:59
  Heather Hiley: So it will be really important that I do that at that stage.
• 31:02
  Sam Oakes: Yeah, I think that just echoing what you said about the um ecosystem that has a proven strategy to build a business and to be able to exit that business, I mean that is really, really powerful.
• 31:15
  Sam Oakes: Being a you know, as a recruitment business owner, 90% of recruitment businesses and they never sell.
• 31:20
  Sam Oakes: I was lucky that I managed to sell mine.
• 31:22
  Sam Oakes: It wasn't for a lot.
• 31:22
  Sam Oakes: But I tell you what, in those years that I was thinking I was gonna build it and sell it, I I thought I was gonna walk away with a hell of a lot more money than I actually did.
• 31:29
  Sam Oakes: And when I when I do talk to SJP, when I do talk to those ecosystems that allow advisors from day one to say, look, this is the goal, right?
• 31:38
  Sam Oakes: You're gonna get here in 10 years.
• 31:40
  Sam Oakes: If you have this level of AUM, this many clients, this much income, this is the value of your business.
• 31:44
  Sam Oakes: And we can value it based on the fact that you're in our ecosystem.
• 31:47
  Sam Oakes: It's not like going to the open market where everyone's bidding for it and it's different.
• 31:50
  Sam Oakes: Yeah, you know, they can genuinely look at your business from start to finish and give you a clear indication of the worth of it and give you somebody to actually transition that business to.
• 31:58
  Sam Oakes: So as you rightfully pointed out, you're not just exiting and leaving your clients in the lurch, you know, you are gently transitioning out of the profession.
• 32:06
  Sam Oakes: In fact, you can even like break apart your business in SJP and sell it to other people if you want if you wanted to actually do that.
• 32:12
  Sam Oakes: So either raise some capital over a period of time when you need it, um, or just to gently kind of edge out.
• 32:17
  Sam Oakes: And I think that's a really beautiful thing.
• 32:18
  Sam Oakes: And I being a business owner, though, never really thought outside of the fantasy of selling a business of what I think might happen because we're so caught up in the moment, there is a kind of um reassurance that I get.
• 32:30
  Sam Oakes: And I've often said I've said I've spoken to so many people St.
• 32:32
  Sam Oakes: James's place, and it's interesting because I I genuinely like if I was considering building a financial advice business, like business, I think SJP is a hell of an ecosystem to do it in.
• 32:42
  Sam Oakes: It creates that kind of support network, but allows me to be an entrepreneur within it.
• 32:47
  Sam Oakes: And and and that's what I that's what I like.
• 32:49
  Sam Oakes: And when I'm seeing people go in, you know, not everyone's a success.
• 32:53
  Sam Oakes: You know, not everyone goes in and a success.
• 32:55
  Sam Oakes: But if you've got that business uh building mindset, I think having the ability to know what your exit could look like from day dot is powerful.
• 33:04
  Sam Oakes: And I think for me, I would consider that over a time period because I could go right at 50, you know, I'm 43 years old, 43 years old.
• 33:13
  Sam Oakes: I've always considered like at 50, I might actually become a financial planner.
• 33:17
  Sam Oakes: You know, I'm kind of quite up for that.
• 33:19
  Sam Oakes: I think it's a good age, right?
• 33:20
  Sam Oakes: I think it's a good age, I can get out of there, I can do it.
• 33:23
  Sam Oakes: I've got loads of experience and I'm building upon all my experience now, all the marketing and all of that kind of stuff.
• 33:27
  Sam Oakes: I thought I could go in and do that at 50 years old.
• 33:29
  Sam Oakes: I could do that for 10 years until 60.
• 33:31
  Sam Oakes: What could I build in 10 years?
• 33:33
  Sam Oakes: You know, and going in and having a blueprint where someone can actually show me it, it's like, well, that sounds really, really attractive to me.
• 33:40
  Heather Hiley: It is, it is, and uh so so um uh when we talked before, Sam, you're aware that I've you know I've exited out of businesses in different ways so far.
• 33:47
  Heather Hiley: So I've obviously exited out of one business where where we liquidated, I've exited out of one business where we sold, um, and I've closed another one down.
• 33:54
  Heather Hiley: Um, so coming in with this, you know, where there is this opportunity to make sure that you understand, and and like you say, I think they they're doing it gradually over time and raising capital gently over the time is is probably more realistic, and is probably what I would think will happen um with my with my business.
• 34:11
  Heather Hiley: Um, but actually it's it's it's so powerful because you don't have a clue what will happen with your business when you decide that you've had enough.
• 34:18
  Heather Hiley: And I've got clients now trying to sell their businesses and they've got tremendous figures in their head of what they believe their business is worth, but actually finding a buyer is a really, really hard, hard thing to do.
• 34:30
  Sam Oakes: Um, you never know what might happen in business, and you never know what might happen in life.
• 34:35
  Sam Oakes: No, people go through ups and downs in life as well, and it hasn't always been roses for you, right?
• 34:41
  Sam Oakes: And I know that you uh have the Alice Highly Memorial Trust, which sounds like an amazing charity and trust to be a part of.
• 34:51
  Sam Oakes: But what is the story, story behind that, Eva?
• 34:54
  Heather Hiley: Yeah, so so as you say, I've I've definitely been through through some through some tough times, as as many of us have.
• 35:00
  Heather Hiley: Um so uh my my second daughter um was diagnosed with a congenital congenital diaphragmatic hernia at C D H.
• 35:09
  Heather Hiley: It's a bit easier to say, um, at a 20-week scan, um, and uh was expected to um be born um and uh be operated on within a couple of days and and then probably lived quite a relatively normal life um with with maybe a bit of asthma, a few problems maybe potentially with the lungs.
• 35:28
  Heather Hiley: That was sort of what we were told, what we were expecting.
• 35:31
  Heather Hiley: Unfortunately, when she was born, um she she only lived for seven hours because her heart gave up, um, which I have to tell you is probably the hardest thing I'll ever experience in my life, and it and I think it has it's made me who I am.
• 35:45
  Heather Hiley: Um I'm not saying I wasn't a good person before, but it's definitely made me a better person.
• 35:49
  Heather Hiley: Um, because you know, when you deal with something so well, it's just wrong, isn't it?
• 35:54
  Heather Hiley: You don't expect to lose your children.
• 35:55
  Heather Hiley: Um, that um yeah, it has made me um resilient for sure.
• 36:01
  Heather Hiley: Um, but also it's made me um I've always tried to help others.
• 36:06
  Heather Hiley: I can't say I wasn't like that person before, but it's made me like have this true like purpose.
• 36:11
  Heather Hiley: I use that word, you know, um it can be used too easily actually, but it has meant I've I've always had this inner feeling that I need to my life needs to have purpose and because she couldn't live.
• 36:21
  Heather Hiley: Like I always feel like I live for her as well.
• 36:24
  Heather Hiley: Um, so yeah, so um and look from there we we had to organise a funeral, which is probably one of the most horrendous things you ever have to organise in your life for your own child.
• 36:34
  Heather Hiley: And a lot of people wanted to come, we had this massive outpouring of support, which was amazing, but I couldn't I couldn't cope with it.
• 36:40
  Heather Hiley: Um so so instead we organised a private funeral and then we organized a fundraising evening because we said, let's give back, let's give back to the hospitals that were amazing, you know.
• 36:48
  Heather Hiley: Um, absolute um shout out for all the all the hospitals in the area that looked after um myself and Alice.
• 36:54
  Heather Hiley: Um, so we had this evening, and bear in mind this is nearly 15 years ago, um, we had this evening, we raised £5,000 in one evening, which was a lot of money in an evening, you know, that we were so we went we went home that night, you know, quite overwhelmed, really, and and sat up all night saying, We're quite private people, but actually we have the power to do something.
• 37:16
  Heather Hiley: Like out of out of something really horrendous could come some good.
• 37:20
  Heather Hiley: Um, and and that night the charity was was born um because we realised that we actually could do some good.
• 37:27
  Heather Hiley: Um, so yeah, so we we uh had the charity for 15 years, we raise money to support the outcomes of neonatal babies, predominantly in the northwest of England.
• 37:36
  Heather Hiley: Um, so what we wanted to do was that people got involved, but actually, um you know it led to equipment or staff training in the areas where their children, their nieces, their nephews, their friends' children were going to be born and and potentially would would be looked after.
• 37:52
  Heather Hiley: Um and we also raised the awareness for congenital diaphragmatic hernia as well, which is um fairly rare, but not as rare as as you think.
• 38:01
  Sam Oakes: Not as rare as you think, is it?
• 38:02
  Sam Oakes: Is it something that comes up with the case?
• 38:04
  Heather Hiley: Yeah, so one in one in five thousand babies die of CDH, which sounds not a lot, but when you actually look at some of the stats of some of the other things that that you hear of children born with cystic fibrosis, all those things, it's actually more common.
• 38:15
  Heather Hiley: So yeah, not as uncommon as you think.
• 38:17
  Heather Hiley: But then but they still don't have a cure, they still don't know why it happens.
• 38:20
  Heather Hiley: So um we try to support in that way as well.
• 38:24
  Sam Oakes: Well, if you can send me that link to where our listeners can make donations, and um I definitely want to make a donation to that heather.
• 38:32
  Sam Oakes: So if you can send that across to me, I will make a donation and we'll make we'll make sure that that gets shared on the uh description and the article that we put out as well.
• 38:40
  Sam Oakes: Because um, you know, amazing work and something quite traumatic to go through.
• 38:43
  Sam Oakes: I couldn't imagine it being a father of a daughter myself.
• 38:46
  Sam Oakes: So I think when you told me that, I wells you up because it must be absolutely um heartbreaking to go through that.
• 38:53
  Sam Oakes: But turning that tragedy into supporting others, I think is a noble thing to do.
• 38:57
  Sam Oakes: And I said, Yeah, as you said, giving giving up your time to deliver that higher level of purpose to to support others who are going through potentially the same stress and anguish and heartbreak um trauma that you've gone through is um admirable.
• 39:10
  Sam Oakes: So keep up that amazing work, and and obviously she lives on Alice in your heart and in your purpose, right?
• 39:15
  Sam Oakes: And that's the most beautiful thing.
• 39:17
  Heather Hiley: Yeah, and look, you know, because of the charity, people know her name, and that's that's another amazing thing that came from the charity.
• 39:22
  Heather Hiley: It wasn't intentional, but yeah, it absolutely is.
• 39:26
  Heather Hiley: Um but yeah, it I think it's I I've I've met people through the financial planning, so clients through the financial planning that have gone through similar situations, not necessarily the same, similar situations or uh similarly heartbreaking situations.
• 39:42
  Heather Hiley: Um and so often I end up sharing it, which uh I never thought I would.
• 39:47
  Heather Hiley: It's not like the first thing I tend to tell people.
• 39:49
  Heather Hiley: You know, people people that have known me for a while sometimes don't know because it's not Heather and this is what happened to me.
• 39:55
  Heather Hiley: It's it's it's is it is a part of me.
• 39:57
  Heather Hiley: Um, but it it you know.
• 39:59
  Heather Hiley: Does allow for people to talk quite openly about some of the tough stuff they've been through because I don't shy away from talking about things.
• 40:07
  Sam Oakes: No, exactly.
• 40:08
  Sam Oakes: It allows people to, yeah, your personal experience of that allows people to get vulnerable with you as well.
• 40:14
  Sam Oakes: And it can often put things into perspective sometimes, and we sit there and we think we're having a really hard time, and then someone opens up and tells a story like that, it makes you realise, okay, right, maybe my problems right this second can be solved.
• 40:25
  Sam Oakes: Something like that is something which is painful for a long, long time.
• 40:28
  Sam Oakes: Um, I've spoken to quite a few financial planners that help families with clinical negligence and PI, uh personal injury, um, and families that are living with children that have got um, you know, long-term illnesses, uh, disabilities where, you know, in the long term, a financial plan needs to be built out and more often than not, sometimes it has to go through the courts to be able to justify it.
• 40:47
  Sam Oakes: And I always found that a really fascinating and interesting area of financial planning, you know, having being able to be able to support a family through the courts to be able to make a claim to be able to provide long-term care, uh, not just for the child or the person that's been injured, for example, but also for the family that has to be there to support, because there's a huge amount of support that gets on that goes on with that.
• 41:09
  Sam Oakes: And that's another kind of whole area of financial planning that you can open yourself up to, which is um truly quite aspiring and uh and interesting.
• 41:17
  Sam Oakes: Um, Heather, what does the next couple of months look like for you?
• 41:22
  Sam Oakes: I always say like you know, the next year, but I'm intrigued into what's what's what's happening in the next couple of months.
• 41:27
  Sam Oakes: What's your plans?
• 41:28
  Sam Oakes: What's your what's your big tick list?
• 41:30
  Sam Oakes: What are the top three things on your tick list to do in the next couple of months, do you get a a holiday?
• 41:36
  Sam Oakes: Right, yeah.
• 41:37
  Sam Oakes: I'm me.
• 41:38
  Heather Hiley: Yeah, I'm me.
• 41:39
  Heather Hiley: I think look, I think when you go into this, um building your own business, and it doesn't matter what business it is, does it?
• 41:46
  Heather Hiley: You've got to give it everything.
• 41:50
  Heather Hiley: And I and I hear people that say, Well, I work for myself because I want the flexibility to do this and that and the other.
• 41:55
  Heather Hiley: And don't get me wrong, I have that flexibility.
• 41:57
  Heather Hiley: If I want to go at three o'clock and pick up my child from school, which I mean she's a bit older than that now, but you know, when she did, I did.
• 42:03
  Heather Hiley: But that doesn't mean I then didn't work till nine, ten o'clock at night to make up for the fact that I had that flexibility.
• 42:10
  Heather Hiley: So starting this business, the last two years I have worked every hour I think is possible between Monday to Friday.
• 42:17
  Heather Hiley: I'm quite strict with my weekends.
• 42:19
  Heather Hiley: It doesn't mean I don't sometimes work, but I never see clients at the weekend.
• 42:21
  Heather Hiley: I am quite, I uh you know, I need to give my family some of me, yeah.
• 42:25
  Heather Hiley: Um but um so so this year I have yeah, I've just I literally hit the new year and haven't stopped.
• 42:33
  Heather Hiley: Um so I'm truly ready for a break.
• 42:35
  Heather Hiley: So that's number one.
• 42:36
  Heather Hiley: Um yeah, on there.
• 42:38
  Heather Hiley: Um number two, I think, will always be to make sure that I'm doing everything that's right for my clients.
• 42:44
  Heather Hiley: Um so and that goes the next two months, that goes forever.
• 42:47
  Heather Hiley: Um, you know, I I I do I think being in retail, you know, I didn't have the impact on people that I have today.
• 42:54
  Heather Hiley: So, you know, when I sit down with someone and create a plan and say yes or no, you can retire, or yes or no, you can do whatever, I feel the weight of that.
• 43:01
  Heather Hiley: I really do.
• 43:02
  Heather Hiley: I feel that that that on me, and I and I want to feel that.
• 43:04
  Heather Hiley: I think we all should feel that actually, um, because it's you know, we're we're not we can't mess with people's lives, can we?
• 43:11
  Heather Hiley: Um, and in retail, I didn't have that.
• 43:12
  Heather Hiley: So I definitely think that's something that yeah is my will always be my focus and is probably my focus for for the next period.
• 43:20
  Heather Hiley: Um and the third one, I'm gonna bring it back to the charity actually.
• 43:24
  Heather Hiley: So we we we had a bit of hiatus in the last few years.
• 43:27
  Heather Hiley: We've relaunched this year and we've got our first event, a week today, um, which it's just a bit of a social um i in our local area.
• 43:36
  Heather Hiley: Um, but actually, I I need to give that what it deserves um because when I am so busy with the business, it it can sometimes get a bit of a backseat.
• 43:43
  Heather Hiley: So yeah, um, making sure that that that that charity gets back to where it was in terms of visibility is really important as well.
• 43:51
  Sam Oakes: So, what I took from that, your top three things is and I love the fact that you put yourself first, actually.
• 43:56
  Sam Oakes: I love the fact that you put yourself first because I think running a business office.
• 43:59
  Sam Oakes: Yeah, and I'm guilty, I'm very, very guilty of that.
• 44:03
  Sam Oakes: Very guilty of that.
• 44:04
  Sam Oakes: So I'm I'm with you.
• 44:06
  Sam Oakes: And I find it really hard to put myself first.
• 44:08
  Sam Oakes: And then obviously, you've got the clients that you're looking after, you know, you're putting them in that list as well, and you're putting your charity in that.
• 44:14
  Sam Oakes: So, what it sounds like to me is you're somebody who likes to give back to others, but you're starting to recognise that giving back to yourself um is really, really important.
• 44:23
  Sam Oakes: And you're probably feeling that burn running your own business and to give yourself that space, give yourself that that that um that uh fill your chalice up before you can start giving giving it to somebody else because you can give them an empty chalice head.
• 44:35
  Heather Hiley: Absolutely, yeah.
• 44:35
  Heather Hiley: I and I and look, I I I don't pretend that I don't work stupidly hard and I don't pretend to other people that if you're gonna grow a business, you've got to sacrifice something.
• 44:43
  Heather Hiley: Like you you you do.
• 44:45
  Heather Hiley: Um, but I also know when I'm ready for the break.
• 44:48
  Heather Hiley: Yeah.
• 44:48
  Heather Hiley: So they're important.
• 44:50
  Sam Oakes: However, it's been an absolute pleasure hearing about your journey there at St.
• 44:53
  Sam Oakes: James's Place, your transition from retail into financial planning and all the good things that you're doing.
• 44:57
  Sam Oakes: It certainly sounds to me that you are an actual planner with a higher purpose.
• 45:01
  Sam Oakes: You enjoy what it is you do, and the big part of that is helping others.
• 45:04
  Sam Oakes: So love it.
• 45:06
  Sam Oakes: So thank you so much for joining joining.
• 45:08
  Sam Oakes: And if anyone wants to reach out to you to find out more about uh you, your journey, potentially maybe working with you at some point in the future, uh they can do so via the comment section because we're going to put your contact details in there, okay?
• 45:19
  Heather Hiley: That's brilliant.
• 45:19
  Heather Hiley: Thank you very much.
• 45:20
  Heather Hiley: Thank you so much for having me, Sam.
• 45:22
  Heather Hiley: It's been a pleasure.
• 45:23
  Sam Oakes: You're welcome.
• 45:23
  Sam Oakes: Thanks, Heather.
• 45:25
  Heather Hiley: Thank you.