Latest / Groove with Portia / Estrangement and Loss: A Truth We Don’t Tell Enough

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Estrangement and Loss: A Truth We Don’t Tell Enough · Groove with Portia

0:06
Speaker 1: Welcome to grou Porsche, the podcast that uncovers the hidden
0:09
Speaker 1: treasures within grief. I'm your host, Porsche the Producer, and
0:13
Speaker 1: I'm inviting you to join me on a transformative journey
0:15
Speaker 1: where we were exchange laughter, of course the best medicine
0:18
Speaker 1: of them all, reflect on cherish memories, remember that time
0:21
Speaker 1: that the little boy grabbed my hand instead of his
0:23
Speaker 1: mother's at the amusement park yikes, and of course, discover
0:26
Speaker 1: gratitude while navigating one of life's hardest challenges lost. So
0:31
Speaker 1: get ready to grow with me, Porsche the Producer, let's
0:35
Speaker 1: dive in. Hello everybody, and welcome back to Grow with Porsche.
0:47
Speaker 1: I am your host, Porsche Booker, and as always, don't
0:49
Speaker 1: forget to like, share and subscribe to you with the
0:52
Speaker 1: latest and greatest of all with Grew with Porsche. So
0:55
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago, I was going back through
0:58
Speaker 1: some old pictures and I found one of my dad
1:01
Speaker 1: and it brought back a memory of when I went
1:04
Speaker 1: to see a therapist who told me that I had
1:07
Speaker 1: been grieving the relationship that I never had with my
1:11
Speaker 1: dad because him and my mom divorced when I was young,
1:15
Speaker 1: and I had to sit with that for a minute
1:17
Speaker 1: that memory came up and I said, wow, I wonder
1:20
Speaker 1: how many individuals today started grieving even before they experienced
1:26
Speaker 1: the physical transition of whether it was a parent, a pet,
1:30
Speaker 1: you know, a friend, whatever it might be. So today
1:34
Speaker 1: I am joined by a lovely individual who I had
1:37
Speaker 1: the honor of meeting through a mutual connection. Shout out
1:40
Speaker 1: to mister Dave Roberts for the introduction. She is not
1:44
Speaker 1: only a grief and trauma healing expert, an author, and
1:48
Speaker 1: also a king master and teacher, and also a good
1:52
Speaker 1: friend of mine. So welcome missus, Claire M. Schwartz to
1:55
Speaker 1: grew with Porsche. How are you today, Claire?
1:57
Speaker 2: I am very well, miss Porsche. It's so good to say.
2:00
Speaker 1: I know I'm around like a donut somewhere. I'm not
2:02
Speaker 1: a figment of your imagination.
2:05
Speaker 2: That's good.
2:06
Speaker 1: You know. I have to tell people that people used
2:08
Speaker 1: to ask me if Porsche was my real name, and
2:10
Speaker 1: I'm like, yes, it is. I didn't pull it out
2:12
Speaker 1: of her magic hat. Today I'm not in Alice in Wonderland,
2:15
Speaker 1: so it is my real name.
2:17
Speaker 2: It's also a Shakespeare character.
2:19
Speaker 1: Indeed, the Merchant of Venice. And also I believe Brutus's
2:22
Speaker 1: wife too.
2:23
Speaker 2: There you go.
2:24
Speaker 1: And if you're a fan of True Blood, Porsia is
2:27
Speaker 1: also Andy Belflow's cousin. So I go, look, I go on.
2:35
Speaker 1: I like the Shakespeare because I think that's where my
2:37
Speaker 1: great grandmother pulled my name from when I was little,
2:41
Speaker 1: because my mom was gonna name me something different other
2:43
Speaker 1: than Portia, and my great grandmother was like, we're not
2:45
Speaker 1: having that. So when Nanny put her foot down, everybody obeyed.
2:49
Speaker 1: But that's a whole other conversation for an other day. Claire,
2:53
Speaker 1: first starters, what are you grateful for today?
2:56
Speaker 2: I am grateful for.
3:00
Speaker 1: Coffee I had my cup, to the fact that my
3:06
Speaker 1: house has hate because it is chilly outside.
3:10
Speaker 3: Yeah, grateful for friendship. I'm gonna go with that. Friendship
3:15
Speaker 3: and connection, right, feel that I feel that.
3:19
Speaker 1: I mean because in the world that we live in today,
3:22
Speaker 1: there's a lot of disingenuine people out there. There's a
3:27
Speaker 1: lot of i'll just say underligned individuals that are predators, right,
3:33
Speaker 1: and we have to be mindful of who comes into
3:36
Speaker 1: our circle, right, whether it's through social media channels, even
3:39
Speaker 1: through mutual connections, right, you bet you have to kind
3:43
Speaker 1: of put those you know, Jedi boundaries up like no, no, but.
3:48
Speaker 2: No, that's no is a complete sentence, right, indeed.
3:51
Speaker 1: And we forget about that, you know, Claire, when I
3:54
Speaker 1: was reading your website, one of the things that really
3:57
Speaker 1: stood out, and as I brought up in the beginning,
4:00
Speaker 1: was that grief before a physical transition, right, and you
4:04
Speaker 1: were grieving, yes, the childhood, the life that you didn't
4:08
Speaker 1: have even before losing your parents. That's now I'm curious, Claire,
4:14
Speaker 1: how do you think that grief from your childhood com
4:19
Speaker 1: pounded when you experienced the physical transition of your mom.
4:25
Speaker 2: It's a great question.
4:27
Speaker 3: And you know, I was quite young in the grand
4:31
Speaker 3: scheme of things when my mother passed. I was twenty four,
4:36
Speaker 3: twenty five, and I didn't know anybody around me of
4:41
Speaker 3: my age who had lost a parent yet, so I
4:45
Speaker 3: had no framework for how to process that. I had
4:49
Speaker 3: to ask my older friends what what what? And my
4:54
Speaker 3: mom and I had been estranged for a couple of years.
4:57
Speaker 3: We had a very difficult time when I was growing up.
5:01
Speaker 3: And that's a whole long story. Some of that's in
5:04
Speaker 3: my book. Some of that I've sort of discovered since,
5:07
Speaker 3: But yeah, that was it was always how do I
5:12
Speaker 3: fix this? How do I fix this? How do I
5:13
Speaker 3: fix this? When I hadn't had a lot of my
5:16
Speaker 3: healing myself yet. That didn't happen for many years down
5:20
Speaker 3: the road. And it actually was one of my biggest
5:26
Speaker 3: heartbreaks that night because I got a phone call at
5:31
Speaker 3: midnight from my uncle, and because she was just found
5:37
Speaker 3: in her house and so there was no you know,
5:43
Speaker 3: long illness, there was no preparation, there was no none
5:46
Speaker 3: of that. It was just boom gone. And the first
5:51
Speaker 3: thing I had to do was call my dad, you know,
5:57
Speaker 3: they were divorced at the time. And what flew out
6:02
Speaker 3: of my mouth just, you know, because you're not really
6:06
Speaker 3: thinking and planning when you're in that state of mind.
6:10
Speaker 3: Because I had instant meltdown, and what flew out of
6:13
Speaker 3: my mouth was mom is gone and we didn't fix anything.
6:18
Speaker 3: That's what flew from my gut. And that was just,
6:24
Speaker 3: you know, you lose the possibilities of healing, you know,
6:30
Speaker 3: you lose And I hadn't framed it yet at that age,
6:33
Speaker 3: but of course she missed. Really, I've now spent more
6:40
Speaker 3: time on this earth without her than I did with her.
6:44
Speaker 3: So because it's thirty years that she's gone, So she
6:49
Speaker 3: missed this whole second half and more of my life.
6:55
Speaker 3: She didn't know who I would grow into, she didn't
6:58
Speaker 3: know my path, she didn't know my friends.
7:03
Speaker 2: She obviously would never meet my husband.
7:06
Speaker 3: So but the irony is that that loss was so
7:11
Speaker 3: profound in the shaping of who I am. It made
7:16
Speaker 3: me work really hard at the healing piece and who
7:19
Speaker 3: I am and seventeen other things that happened in my journey.
7:23
Speaker 3: But the irony is if I hadn't had that loss,
7:28
Speaker 3: I don't know who I would be now. Would I
7:31
Speaker 3: have had that healing, would I have had all of
7:36
Speaker 3: the lessons which which again ironically, I feel like I
7:43
Speaker 3: would be able to offer a great deal of support
7:47
Speaker 3: and insight and wisdom to her and who I am now.
7:52
Speaker 2: But I wouldn't probably be who I am now if
7:55
Speaker 2: I hadn't lost her. So it's one of those conundrums
8:01
Speaker 2: that life brings us. Right, it's our traumas and our
8:06
Speaker 2: and our losses shape who we are. I say it
8:09
Speaker 2: at the end of my book.
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Speaker 3: Loss changes you, and sometimes we fight those changes and
8:15
Speaker 3: we go I want those times back, can't go back, obviously,
8:22
Speaker 3: But who we get shaped into from our healing path
8:31
Speaker 3: can have a huge impact afterwards, and so we don't
8:34
Speaker 3: really know. It's part of what I one of the
8:36
Speaker 3: most powerful things that I do in my practice is Okay,
8:39
Speaker 3: these very difficult, sometimes really horrible things happen in our lives,
8:45
Speaker 3: and how do we craft who we are going forward?
8:51
Speaker 3: And so that's that's really the task. And part of
8:57
Speaker 3: that is under that there are some things that we
9:02
Speaker 3: can't get back. But I encourage people to not soak
9:06
Speaker 3: in that, you know, because yes, it's a truth. But
9:12
Speaker 3: I also always talk about there are two truths very
9:14
Speaker 3: often and one does not have to cancel out the other. So, yes,
9:19
Speaker 3: you can't go back, that is true. I can't get
9:22
Speaker 3: that person back for you. I can't get that time
9:24
Speaker 3: period back for you. But this is not the end
9:27
Speaker 3: of your story. This is a chapter. This is a
9:30
Speaker 3: piece of the puzzle. So and the overall picture, and
9:35
Speaker 3: the puzzle is constantly changing. It's not like the thing
9:38
Speaker 3: that's in the box that is the preset thing. It's
9:40
Speaker 3: constantly changing. Right, So, who are we after we've lost
9:46
Speaker 3: our parents? And it's a profound question and just dealing
9:52
Speaker 3: with that right now in my practice, and I have
9:55
Speaker 3: a client who just lost her dad last week, and
10:00
Speaker 3: trying to keep people grounded and figure out who are
10:03
Speaker 3: we now and how do we build on that?
10:07
Speaker 2: Well?
10:07
Speaker 1: And Claire, first of all, I appreciate the vulnerability and
10:11
Speaker 1: honesty right of that you and your mom weren't close,
10:17
Speaker 1: And I mean that already is a grief in itself
10:21
Speaker 1: of why can't I build this relationship with.
10:24
Speaker 3: You because we Yeah, because we had because we had
10:28
Speaker 3: a history.
10:30
Speaker 2: You know, our household was not.
10:33
Speaker 3: This cookie cutter holiday card, warm fuzzy place.
10:39
Speaker 1: It was all.
10:41
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you'd be careful with copyright. So I
10:44
Speaker 3: don't use that word, but but but yes, I mean
10:49
Speaker 3: it's it's not that, you know, the commercial thing that
10:52
Speaker 3: we see this idealized, wonderful thing, because more often than not,
10:58
Speaker 3: there are houses with abuse and neglect and all sorts
11:02
Speaker 3: of sad and unfortunate things. That's the that's the rule,
11:07
Speaker 3: not the exception. Most families have that in some aspect.
11:13
Speaker 3: And so our house was not warm and comfortable and supportive.
11:18
Speaker 3: It was very fraught and dangerous. And so yeah, so
11:24
Speaker 3: that was I wasn't really close, I would say to
11:28
Speaker 3: either of my parents, and you know, desperate to get
11:33
Speaker 3: out of the house. But the again another irony as
11:40
Speaker 3: I got older and into my thirties and forties, and
11:44
Speaker 3: you know, I'm her kid. If you look at pictures
11:48
Speaker 3: of her when she was in her twenties and thirties.
11:52
Speaker 3: I have occasionally had post I've posted a picture of
11:56
Speaker 3: my mom in her youth and had somebody just look
12:00
Speaker 3: quickly and say, oh, that's a great picture of you.
12:02
Speaker 2: Oh wait, is that you? Oh wait, that's not you, Like, no,
12:07
Speaker 2: that's mama.
12:08
Speaker 3: And but I'm also we were more alike than we
12:13
Speaker 3: ever realized. I'm I'm her kid. We just didn't really
12:19
Speaker 3: get to talk about it. It's it's a she had
12:21
Speaker 3: a she had a tragic story and complicated lumpy you know,
12:28
Speaker 3: I talk about in my in my practice, as someone
12:30
Speaker 3: passes leave a lumpy legacy. It's again, it's not the
12:35
Speaker 3: everything was sunshine and roses. It's oh no, Actually, these
12:40
Speaker 3: things were really hard, and there were other things that
12:42
Speaker 3: were terrible, and there were other things where I'm pretty angry,
12:45
Speaker 3: and and all of that is acceptable when you're going
12:48
Speaker 3: through the grief process. So some folks, both my folks,
12:53
Speaker 3: left a lumpy legacy. And but it's just layers of irony, right,
13:00
Speaker 3: and things that we understand as we get older that
13:02
Speaker 3: we didn't understand when we were you know, young.
13:05
Speaker 1: Ands why to free twenty fun twenty one?
13:10
Speaker 2: You know, Claire, trouble.
13:14
Speaker 1: Mine was twenty fun. It might have been some little
13:16
Speaker 1: dangerous pieces in there. My mom us say all the time,
13:19
Speaker 1: I want to be young and dangerous. So my mom
13:21
Speaker 1: always said that a lot. And it's interesting, Claire.
13:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, dangerous.
13:25
Speaker 3: Yeah, you don't want to be doing that in New
13:27
Speaker 3: York City, Like, oh wait, I did do.
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Speaker 1: That, you know, Claire, it's interesting you bring up about
13:33
Speaker 1: our parents have their own brief stories and journeys that
13:38
Speaker 1: we're not privy to, and that has shaped how they
13:42
Speaker 1: parented us, how they showed up in the world. I mean,
13:45
Speaker 1: it's amazing the things that I found out after both
13:48
Speaker 1: of my parents transition that same made me, you know,
13:52
Speaker 1: take a step back and be like, wow, that's I
13:54
Speaker 1: see why they showed up in the world this way,
13:58
Speaker 1: you bet. I'm curious, Claire. So many people today are
14:05
Speaker 1: estranged from their parents because of similar situations like you,
14:13
Speaker 1: and some of them their parents are still here, but
14:17
Speaker 1: yet a lot of them are struggling still in that
14:21
Speaker 1: boat of the would have, could have, should have the guilt.
14:27
Speaker 1: Some may be resentful, right, And I'm curious, Claire, what
14:33
Speaker 1: words of encouragement can you share with these individuals today
14:38
Speaker 1: to help them to still live life to the fullest, right,
14:43
Speaker 1: Understand that circumstances happen and it's not their fault, but
14:49
Speaker 1: also give them that peace of mind that yeah, this
14:53
Speaker 1: person birth me, but their scars don't have to you know,
14:59
Speaker 1: stay on me a scarlet letter.
15:02
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, so, I mean the topic of estrangement is
15:07
Speaker 3: very tricky. It's right up there with forgiveness, very very
15:13
Speaker 3: dicey stuff, because sometimes mending is not possible, and so
15:21
Speaker 3: there there are these blanket platitudes of oh, you should
15:25
Speaker 3: always forgive, Oh you should always make up, Oh you
15:28
Speaker 3: should always like.
15:29
Speaker 4: Well, maybe it's very idealized and it's a big if,
15:38
Speaker 4: right because there and I had this, I had this
15:41
Speaker 4: with my father.
15:43
Speaker 3: I'm actually again watching this happen in my practice.
15:48
Speaker 2: Where we tried to mend.
15:53
Speaker 3: We try to get into a healthy place, but our
15:57
Speaker 3: perspectives and understandings were just two different. And what one
16:04
Speaker 3: person requires to have the relationship run well may not
16:10
Speaker 3: align or be healthy for the other person. So Sometimes
16:16
Speaker 3: it's not always a bad idea to just distance yourself
16:21
Speaker 3: from somebody, because you how many times are you going
16:25
Speaker 3: to bang your head against that wall? The wall doesn't move,
16:29
Speaker 3: and you're the one who's getting bloody. So in a
16:32
Speaker 3: lovely world, sometimes people do come together and they have
16:36
Speaker 3: these enlightenment moments where they can look face to face
16:39
Speaker 3: and go, oh my god, I had no idea. I'm
16:42
Speaker 3: so sorry I did that. Tell me what I need
16:45
Speaker 3: to do to fix that? How can I make that
16:49
Speaker 3: up to you? How can I fix our broken relationship.
16:53
Speaker 3: I've seen it happen. I've seen it happen. Sometimes it doesn't, right,
16:59
Speaker 3: so I don't. Well, I'm always careful not to use
17:01
Speaker 3: these blanket assumptions about individual, very complex relationships. So each
17:09
Speaker 3: person has to decide where is your boundary of healthy?
17:15
Speaker 2: What does healthy mean to you? Right?
17:18
Speaker 3: So, if you are trying to mend something and the
17:21
Speaker 3: other person is not listening and not getting it, sometimes
17:25
Speaker 3: you just have to take a deep breath and take
17:27
Speaker 3: a step back and go, Okay, so this is how
17:30
Speaker 3: it is right now, and you set whatever boundaries you
17:33
Speaker 3: need to to stay in a healthy mindset for yourself.
17:39
Speaker 3: And so if that person passes before you can mend things.
17:44
Speaker 3: All of that has to be processed through. It's whether
17:48
Speaker 3: it's sad, whether it's angry. I was very angry at
17:53
Speaker 3: my dad when he passed. It's like he just could
17:55
Speaker 3: not get out of the way so that we could connect,
18:00
Speaker 3: just could not take better care of himself because he
18:02
Speaker 3: didn't understand the consequences that that would have for me.
18:08
Speaker 3: So and yet there are there are good facets, and
18:11
Speaker 3: there were really destructive facets to relationships with both of them,
18:18
Speaker 3: And with my stepmother, by the way, sometimes I miss
18:23
Speaker 3: her more than I miss either of my parents, and
18:27
Speaker 3: we didn't get a chance to really connect either for
18:31
Speaker 3: completely different reasons. So the best I can leave you
18:37
Speaker 3: with is take each of these relationships as a separate
18:42
Speaker 3: story and be able to be gentle with yourself in
18:48
Speaker 3: the process. We all have elements of Shutakuta woulda if
18:54
Speaker 3: only so so common, so so common, and at some
19:00
Speaker 3: point what we have to have to what is possible
19:06
Speaker 3: is to be gentle with ourselves. People only know what
19:10
Speaker 3: they know at any given point. You can't beat yourself
19:14
Speaker 3: up for something that you should have known ten years ago.
19:17
Speaker 2: Well it was ten years ago. You didn't know. That's okay.
19:21
Speaker 2: We're human, we're.
19:22
Speaker 3: Messy or imperfect, and most of us are doing the
19:27
Speaker 3: best we can. Sometimes the best we can is inadequate.
19:33
Speaker 3: But in terms of ourselves grace, giving ourselves grace and
19:39
Speaker 3: going okay, this is another chapter in the story, right,
19:43
Speaker 3: and the next piece of that is what can I
19:48
Speaker 3: learn from that going forward? How do I want to change,
19:51
Speaker 3: how I connect, how I listen, how I receive, how
19:55
Speaker 3: I set those healthy boundaries for myself, and also so
20:01
Speaker 3: ask of others to do the same. So it's such
20:05
Speaker 3: an individual story, but after fifteen years of doing the
20:11
Speaker 3: grief work, really my observation is it takes time to
20:16
Speaker 3: work through all of those things. And I always encourage
20:18
Speaker 3: people allow all of the feelings, don't beat yourself up
20:23
Speaker 3: for any of it, and that folks need a space
20:27
Speaker 3: where they can just bring those things out, talk about them,
20:32
Speaker 3: and have them processed until at some point they just
20:38
Speaker 3: release and then you are able to take a deep
20:42
Speaker 3: breath and go to the next phase of your life
20:46
Speaker 3: and try to get as much joy out of it
20:48
Speaker 3: as you can.
20:49
Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad Claire you also reminded us of taking
20:53
Speaker 1: each loss individually because you have, you know, compounded, that's
20:59
Speaker 1: a whole another ball game and a half when you've
21:02
Speaker 1: had multiples in a short period of time. You know,
21:05
Speaker 1: my parents went nine months after each other, so that
21:09
Speaker 1: was a whole you know, chaos town two point zero
21:12
Speaker 1: in my house, you know, but it was Honestly, when
21:17
Speaker 1: I think on it now, I'm very grateful that it
21:20
Speaker 1: happened that way where it wasn't. You know, my mom
21:24
Speaker 1: goes and then ten years later my dad. Right, I
21:27
Speaker 1: get to work with both of those losses simultaneously and
21:32
Speaker 1: also grieve the different parts of both relationships that I
21:37
Speaker 1: did and did not have.
21:38
Speaker 2: Right exactly exactly.
21:40
Speaker 1: Claire, we are going to be wrapping up, my friend.
21:44
Speaker 1: We're going to probably have to do a part two
21:46
Speaker 1: because there's something else that I definitely want us to
21:50
Speaker 1: touch on, because I know that you also work with
21:52
Speaker 1: different organizations and corporations to ind you know, to incorporate
21:56
Speaker 1: a more grief inclusive workforce, right, and we'll have to
22:00
Speaker 1: do a whole episode on that because so many people, right,
22:06
Speaker 1: grief is causing so much loss and revenue and companies
22:09
Speaker 1: don't even realize yes, right, yes, So Claire, for our audience,
22:12
Speaker 1: I'm sure that there's going to be individuals who want
22:16
Speaker 1: to connect with you, who want to also get your
22:18
Speaker 1: book Putting Out the Fire. How can they connect with you, Claire.
22:23
Speaker 3: So my website, my main website is you can Heal
22:28
Speaker 3: your Grief dot Com, which I'm sure Miss Porschel will
22:32
Speaker 3: put in the show notes, and that's where you can
22:35
Speaker 3: find my book, which I'll just see if the camera
22:39
Speaker 3: can capture this putting out the fire, nurturing mind, body
22:43
Speaker 3: and spirit in the first week of loss and beyond.
22:46
Speaker 3: That's for that the book that I wish I had
22:49
Speaker 3: in the beginning right after my mom passed, where here
22:53
Speaker 3: you have to make eighty seven really important decisions in
22:55
Speaker 3: the next five minutes when you're completely numb and in shock,
23:00
Speaker 3: and how do you navigate that all that all of
23:03
Speaker 3: those moving pieces, whether it's dealing with family, dealing with
23:07
Speaker 3: the legal bits, dealing with the funeral, and what happens
23:12
Speaker 3: after all of that is done, how.
23:14
Speaker 2: Do you move forward?
23:15
Speaker 3: So it's a nice, thin, easily digestible book, and it
23:21
Speaker 3: is on my website. It is also on Amazon, but
23:23
Speaker 3: I always ask that you buy directly from the author,
23:27
Speaker 3: so I would appreciate that I work with individual clients
23:32
Speaker 3: as well as doing work with as you said, businesses
23:36
Speaker 3: and organizations to help with grief and trauma actually how
23:41
Speaker 3: to have a trauma informed approach to when things happen
23:47
Speaker 3: to your employees.
23:49
Speaker 2: And also I have an.
23:52
Speaker 3: Intensive program for people who want something much more personal.
23:57
Speaker 3: You want your personal grief coach in your back pocket
23:59
Speaker 3: on the daily, you can have that. I have a
24:02
Speaker 3: three month online portal program that I call Fearless Grieving
24:06
Speaker 3: to Fearless Living. And it's not just for grief, it
24:09
Speaker 3: can be for trauma as well. For really, when you
24:11
Speaker 3: want to really pedal to the metal, some people need that.
24:15
Speaker 2: I want that right now. I can't deal with this anymore.
24:18
Speaker 3: I need more intensive support than once a week, So
24:23
Speaker 3: I only take a couple of folks a time in
24:25
Speaker 3: that because it is it is a very personalized connection,
24:30
Speaker 3: and so are These are the things that we want.
24:34
Speaker 2: To get out of the way.
24:37
Speaker 3: The grief and trauma that walks around unhealed in your
24:40
Speaker 3: life can do a lot of damage and it keeps
24:43
Speaker 3: us from living our lives. And we want if we do.
24:47
Speaker 3: Have you alluded to before, generational trauma things that Here's
24:52
Speaker 3: why we got this way is because the stuff that
24:54
Speaker 3: our parents went through and because they didn't have these tools.
24:57
Speaker 2: And these conversations back then.
24:59
Speaker 3: Let's have the those conversations now and have that stop
25:03
Speaker 3: with this generation, that we be the change makers, creating
25:07
Speaker 3: the healing that is needed in the world, so that
25:10
Speaker 3: we can put forward something healthier and more grounded and
25:13
Speaker 3: more connected for our friends and family to get the
25:18
Speaker 3: most out of this life.
25:20
Speaker 2: Not when days promised. Let's go do the.
25:23
Speaker 1: Things in that order, Claire in that order. Well, everybody,
25:28
Speaker 1: if you want to connect with Claire, obviously you can
25:30
Speaker 1: go to her website, you can Heal your Grief dot com,
25:33
Speaker 1: or just do a Google search of Claire's name. That's
25:35
Speaker 1: always what I tell people, because you know, Google is
25:38
Speaker 1: your friend. Well, everybody, that was Claire M. Schwartz that
25:43
Speaker 1: you heard from today on Grule Portie. And that concludes
25:46
Speaker 1: another episode and until next time, everybody, piece and hair grease.
25:49
Speaker 1: Everyone w