Latest / Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News / South Korea’s leftist betrayal: Pro-North forces threaten America’s key ally

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South Korea’s leftist betrayal: Pro-North forces threaten America’s key ally · Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News

• 0:17
  Welcome to another show on America Out Loud, Trevor Loudon reports.
• 0:22
  We're here with someone very uh very interesting today, a man called Lawrence Peck.
• 0:27
  He's a long time conservative activists.
• 0:30
  Uh we have many, many friends in common, stretching back for a few decades.
• 0:36
  I think that's fair to say, Lawrence.
• 0:38
  And uh, but Lawrence has got a particular um uh a lot of connections to to uh South Korea.
• 0:48
  Now that's not a country that a lot of Americans can serve a lot of American patriots and conservatives focus on.
• 0:55
  It's always been seen as reliably anti-communist that supported America and obviously the Korean War, but also Vietnam.
• 1:04
  Um a lot of American soldiers loved it when their ROC troops, Republic of Korean troops turned up because they knew how to fight.
• 1:14
  But I think it's fair to say South Korea is in a lot of trouble right now, and it's not getting the publicity it deserves, and I've seen nothing from this administration about uh about the consequences of this.
• 1:28
  So, first of all, Lawrence, thanks, thanks for coming on, sir.
• 1:32
  Hello, Trevor.
• 1:33
  Thank you very much for having me on your show.
• 1:35
  I am uh someone who's familiar with your work and uh who sometimes relies on it, both through uh Kiwiki and through uh other uh uh publications that you've written for.
• 1:46
  Yes, well, thank you.
• 1:47
  Uh you know, you you are, you know, I I don't think there's many people in America that have as much, you know, there's not many people that really understand the political left, but Lawrence is certainly one of those, and he he knows the alphabet soup of communist groups out there.
• 2:05
  So when he sees Korean South Korean politicians come here and stop hobnobbing with communists in this country, he can tell us something wrong.
• 2:16
  So Lawrence, how did you how did you get connected to South Korea?
• 2:20
  I know you've been a conservative active activist for years, but how did North Korea uh how does South Korea come on your radar?
• 2:30
  Well, it began through North Korea, actually, and uh I kind of migrated uh from my interest in the Soviet Union to my interest in communist China as a university student and from communist China.
• 2:42
  I migrated down into the Korean uh peninsula in terms of my intellectual interest.
• 2:46
  But it was at UCLA when I was an undergraduate student in the 80s during the Reagan years.
• 2:53
  Okay.
• 2:54
  So when the Soviet Union went into retreat or collapse or whatever it did, you more focused on China than North Korea.
• 3:02
  Is that is that accurate?
• 3:04
  Well, yes, first I was interested in the Soviet Union and then in uh in communist China, but uh uh also in in North Korea, because at that time uh, you know, it held a certain fascination as uh uh what we then thought would be one of the few uh the only remaining uh uh communist uh uh states, and because of its wild cult of personality in the form of the Kim dynasty, uh at that time headed by the dictator Kim Il-sung, and I also became interested in it because I noticed that uh uh there were pro-North Korean elements at UCLA when I was a student there in the late 80s.
• 3:40
  So as far back as the late 80s, so I know that after the um the student uprisings uh in South Korea in the early 80s, some of the some of the the survivors of that fled.
• 3:54
  These were fouled North Korean backed insurrections that happened in South Korea in the eight in the early to mid-80s.
• 4:04
  And some of the some of those who escaped the crackdown fled to California.
• 4:10
  Did you come across any of those people?
• 4:13
  Uh I saw mostly uh those individuals who uh migrated to the US uh during an earlier period and uh uh also during a later period.
• 4:23
  Uh there was that uh uh what they termed the pro-democracy movement in South Korea, which included some sheep and some wolves, some individuals who uh were more democratically oriented, but also some who were uh uh Marxists of various uh shades.
• 4:39
  And uh the thing is uh that relates to South Korean politics, which we can get into uh in addition to the pro-North forces in the US, is that these people formed a tight community and a cadre, these these South Koreans who were involved in that movement, uh uh especially the ones who were not pro-democracy genuinely, but were actually pro-North Korean communists, and that and that they can actually be analogized to the uh American Marxist and pro-communist forces of the 1960s, who later in the 70s uh went into uh academia in a big way and even into government, just like these South Koreans in the 80s, the ones who were the pro-North and the Marxists made their way into and infiltrated uh mainstream South Korean society and politics in the 90s and 2000s.
• 5:30
  I think that's what we're seeing now.
• 5:31
  So you had the Korean youth movement or Korean Youth Union, uh you had various groups um back back in that time who were obviously pro-North.
• 5:42
  And so you were coming across these.
• 5:44
  So how did you start to reach out to people in South Korea?
• 5:49
  Uh that came a bit later because uh although in the late 80s I knew folks uh here in the uh Korean American community uh where I am in Los Angeles, but uh uh after um graduating from uh uh university, I then went on to study law.
• 6:05
  And although I didn't practice law and I'm not uh an attorney, I went to work in South Korea for some uh large South Korean corporations in uh the fields of international business and uh licensing and intellectual property, and uh I was there for several years.
• 6:22
  This was in the 90s, and uh uh of course I saw the left-wing activities uh going on there, but uh it was not until I really returned to the US at the turn of the century that I began to focus uh more uh laser-like on the pro-North Korean forces here, which were just getting uh started uh at that time around the turn of the century here in the US.
• 6:44
  Right.
• 6:45
  So um, you know, this groups like Nod Dal and there's a lot, a lot of them.
• 6:51
  We we all Korea Policy Institute was tied into the uh the old classic institute for policy studies.
• 6:59
  So how did you what was the the main activity you saw of the pro-North Korean activists in California and and further afield?
• 7:00
  Did you what was the main activity you saw of the pro-North Korean activists in California and further afield?
• 7:11
  Well, uh they were involved uh in the early days in promoting links between some uh like minded folks in the Korean American community, and also they had one foot also in the non Korean uh American far left and Marxist Leninist uh communities, which they later
• 7:11
  Well, uh they were involved uh in the early days in promoting links between some uh like-minded folks in the Korean American community, and also they had a one foot also in the non-Korean uh American far left and Marxist Leninist uh communities, which they later uh built upon.
• 7:31
  But uh it was mainly focused, obviously uh on anti-South Korea and pro-North Korea activities, especially in the realm of uh of propaganda.
• 7:41
  So you see, you know, like you see this with the Vietnamese communities, the Cuban communities, South Koreans.
• 7:48
  You know, the first generation that comes here tends to be very anti-communist, you know, that fled Vietnam, they've fled uh Korea, they've fled Cuba, and the first generation is very anti-communist.
• 8:03
  That tends to soften by the second generation, and sometimes you see, in the third generation, you actually get young radicals, radicalizing university, and they start to pick up the pro-Cuban cause or the pro um pro-North Korean cause.
• 8:20
  Is that a phenomenon you have observed in in your studies?
• 8:25
  That's a very valid observation, and I've seen that same phenomenon.
• 8:28
  Uh I heard uh Victor Davis Hansen, for example, the uh the historian uh mentioned this also in the context of the Iranian uh expatriates.
• 8:38
  He would note that there was a there was a dichotomy between those who came uh uh before the revolution or at the time of the revolution, being uh very anti-Iranian regime, whereas those who were in Iran and of a Marxist orientation who helped bring about the revolution after the Islamists turned on the Marxists, these Marxists then fled to the West, and this uh uh second migration uh from Iran was more uh left wing uh oriented.
• 9:03
  So that that follows both the the uh earlier Cuban and Vietnamese and South Korean patterns.
• 9:10
  Yeah, well, you see you see most of the pro-North Korean activists.
• 9:15
  They uh many of them were radicalized in the 90s, the early 2000s, and still are being still happening today, but it's the the young university educated ones, and their their grandparents must be just beside themselves at seeing seeing what their kids are turning into, their grandchildren are turning into.
• 9:35
  Yeah, some of them actually do come from uh long time uh established um uh uh leftist or even Marxist Leninist uh families, a few of them, but uh the majority probably, as you've indicated, uh uh were radicalized uh in their university studies here.
• 9:52
  Uh some of them uh ascribe it to uh falling in line with critical theories uh at their in their uh in their educational uh training.
• 10:01
  I find most of the pro-North Korean activists here uh they have sort of Maoist connections that are involved with some of them involved with democratic socialists of America, but many are involved with uh you know the workers' world party or the party for socialism and liberation or the liberation road.
• 10:20
  That's that's where they tend to hang around, not so much the pro the old pro-Soviet parties, but communist party USA, but more the newer, more radical parties and often with a Maoist pen, which is understandable, you know, they would uh they would be attracted to Mao and the Juche, you Juche uh philosophies of North Korea.
• 10:43
  Yes, it's interesting that in South Korea there were two different sects or main sects of the communist Marx i.e.
• 10:51
  Marxist Leninist movements, and one of them was a more kind of traditional Marxist-Leninist uh outlook uh and uh pro-Soviet uh during the existence of the Soviet Union and uh uh since then still socialistic in mindset.
• 11:06
  And then there was another faction which was really focused on North Korea, and as you mentioned, it's a Juche ideology, and they had more of a rather than an internationalist Marxist-Leninist uh outlook, they had more of a nationalist uh pro-North Korean exclusivist uh uh Marxist-Leninist mindset falling in line with the North Korean ideology, Kimil Sungism, the Jucha ideology.
• 11:27
  And those those two uh different factions uh have existed uh a long time in South Korea.
• 11:34
  So can you explain to us briefly what Juche means?
• 11:37
  Uh it's uh J-U-C-H-E.
• 11:40
  It's the the sort of official ideology of North Korea, but how does it differ?
• 11:45
  And it's communist, but how does it differ from other communist sects or philosophies?
• 11:51
  Well, Chuce in in the Korean language uh has been translated uh in various ways, uh uh, one of which is uh slightly misleading, but uh in terms of uh just general understanding, self-reliance.
• 12:05
  And in that particular definition, although imperfect, uh, it has to do with the North Korean attempt to uh distinguish themselves in the North Korean leadership, such as Kim Il-sung, who was the one who promoted it in the beginning in the mid-50s to distinguish himself uh in from the uh Soviet and Chinese communist leaders, it came about uh that was a particular time of interest in the mid-uh 50s uh in light of de-Stalinization.
• 12:33
  So Kim realized that you know every communist leader has to have their own little pet uh ideology that they claim that they uh came up with, whether it's Stalin's socialism in one country or whether it's Mao's peasant-based uh uh revolutionism.
• 12:47
  Uh so Kim, I suppose both for his reasons of his own personal cult and prestige had to come up with his own little ideological uh uh theory, and also it had to do, I believe, with the uh with the uh uh destalinization movement in the Soviet Union and what was going on in China at that time when he felt it necessary to uh to uh kind of stake his own ideological uh ground.
• 13:10
  Well, see, Juce is really based in based in Stalin's theory of socialism of one country, isn't it?
• 13:18
  That that you build your own country, you build up the socialism in one country, you play off patriotism, and you use that to invade other countries when possible.
• 13:31
  But uh uh as opposed to Trotsky, who just wanted to set the world alight all on one big flaming, you know, just one big surge of socialism.
• 13:40
  But you can definitely see Stalinist roots in Juce, in my opinion.
• 13:45
  Well, he had himself, Kim Il-sung, Stalinist roots, because uh uh after originally being a member in Manchuria during the Japanese colonial period, Japanese colonial rule of uh of uh Korea and also of Manchuria beginning in 31, the the role in Manchuria and beginning uh uh around 1910 or so in on the Korean peninsula when the Japanese uh began their colonial rule.
• 14:00
  In Manchuria and beginning uh uh around 1910 or so in on the Korean peninsula when the Japanese uh began their colonial rule.
• 14:08
  Uh Kim, who was originally from uh the area of uh Pyongyang in what is now North Korea uh went to Manchuria and became a Marxist Leninist there and actually was a member uh under the Chinese Communist Party, and he's uh he had his own little guerrilla band, but then uh uh in the early uh 1940s, somewhere around 1940, he uh he fled to the Soviet Union and was trained there uh by the Soviets and returned at the end of World War II when Japan was defeated, he returned to North Korea along with the Soviets in a the uniform of a Soviet military officer, and then of course they installed him as leader of North Korea.
• 14:08
  Uh Kim, who was originally from uh the area of uh Pyongyang in what is now North Korea, uh went to Manchuria and became a Marxist Leninist there and actually was a member uh under the Chinese Communist Party, and he's uh he had his own little guerrilla band, but then uh uh in the early uh 1940s, somewhere around 1940, he uh
• 14:46
  Yeah, under Soviet patronage.
• 14:49
  And I'm told that even today his grandson still has Russian bodyguards.
• 14:54
  Is that have you ever heard that?
• 14:57
  Uh well, I know about the close relationship uh that they have obviously now, Kim Jong-un with with Putin and with Russia, but I don't know that uh uh that uh I haven't seen those reports, but he certainly has uh uh enough uh North Korean uh bodyguards uh to uh to take care of him.
• 15:12
  Uh I I don't know about the Russia uh element of that.
• 15:15
  Uh I'm thinking maybe that Putin might want some of the uh expertly well trained North Korean bodyguards.
• 15:21
  Yeah, well, that's possibly true.
• 15:23
  I don't know if you can trust the zone now.
• 15:25
  So this is the important thing we're getting to now.
• 15:28
  So there's a background there.
• 15:34
  But South Korea has always been hardcore anti-communist.
• 15:38
  And we saw in America how the Marxists of the 70s and 80s under Obama particularly took over and are still entrenched in universities and major corporations and major institutions all across America, the legal profession.
• 15:55
  So you're saying something similar happened in South Korea to the point that South Korea is turning to the left.
• 16:02
  Is that fair to say?
• 16:04
  Yes, because a lot of these uh uh alumnae of the uh radical student movement in the 80s and 90s, especially the pro-North Korean element of that movement, uh, after variously serving jail terms or going abroad uh or uh going out of politics for a while, uh, returned to the political scene in the form of uh politicians, uh advisors to uh legislative politicians, advisors to left-wing uh governments, academics, and other choice spots in media uh infiltrating in the same way that the uh that the 60s uh crowd of radicals in the U.S.
• 16:41
  uh did here throughout the 70s and 80s, was that was replicated in Korea in the 90s and the 2000, so that uh whenever a left-wing government comes to power in South Korea, as it did under President Ro Muhyun in the early 2000s, or President Mun Jay in the uh uh late uh uh 2015s, or currently under Lee Jam Young, all leftists, um, they staffed their administrations with these uh left wingers, uh, and some of whom were pro-North Korean activists, uh unreformed, but uh posing now as mainstream figures.
• 17:22
  So I can sort of understand in America how this was allowed to happen because we are, you know, anti-communism hasn't really been a big thing in America for a long time.
• 17:32
  But there must have been some pushback against this in Korea from the military or other institutions seeing these old 80s radicals now turning up in top spots and in uh and uh you know uh and and the government.
• 17:49
  Yes, well, they claim that they they uh no longer uh had their uh extremist uh views, and uh of course they also portray themselves as having been uh the great heroes of pro-democracy struggle against past uh uh authoritarian uh regimes in the south, and uh uh they were uh able thereby to uh insert themselves into politics.
• 18:13
  Uh some who were not uh uh Marxist-Leninists, just ordinary garden variety leftists of various shades, would then bring these people from the fringes of society into the mainstream.
• 18:26
  Okay, now we have uh the Democratic Party.
• 18:29
  Is that that correct?
• 18:30
  The Democratic Party now rules South Korea.
• 18:34
  Yes, you have Democratic S.
• 18:36
  Yes, in Korean, it's known as the Toboro Minjudang, which is uh literally translates as to the democratic the together democratic party, but most people just refer to it as uh the Minju or the Democratic Party of Korea, yes.
• 18:49
  Now, are you concerned that this Democratic Party will lead South Korea from a pro-American orientation to a pro-North, pro-China orientation?
• 19:00
  Is that what you see happening?
• 19:02
  Well, that's the concern, and that's the threat, and they're moving uh bit by bit uh towards that uh direction.
• 19:09
  Uh they uh have to be very careful, of course, with regard to uh North Korea, because there are still laws on the books uh about uh uh collaboration with with North Korea.
• 19:20
  The uh the extent to which they're uh applied has to do with the uh ideological tint of the given of a given administration.
• 19:28
  But uh one of the concerns which is uh emerged more recently, uh both among uh pro-American conservative forces in South Korea and increasingly among Korea experts here uh has been the pro-China tilt of these left-wing forces in South Korea.
• 19:46
  So this would be manifest in increased trade and increased cultural relations, no doubt, and a softening of a stance against China.
• 19:56
  How else does it manifest?
• 19:58
  It also meant well, uh, economics, of course, is a big one in the trade, but also in some aspects in a political sense, because uh several years ago this Democratic Party signed uh a kind of a friendship and cooperation agreement with the Chinese Communist uh party.
• 20:15
  And that that was under which uh which president?
• 20:19
  Uh well, there have been ties uh between a number of them, but it goes back to the uh it goes back uh several years through the through the Mun Jee in years, and it's continued now in the Li Jmyong years, that of the current uh president.
• 20:32
  Now, is there any like we saw the Biden administration and Obama administration go after conservatives and and enemies of the regime and using the IRS and weaponizing government against those considered enemies.
• 20:49
  Is there anything similar happening in South Korea today?
• 20:53
  Indeed, there is.
• 20:54
  Uh and it's uh it's creating quite a stir there, and it uh creates a lot of difficulties for the pro-US conservative forces in South Korea.
• 21:00
  Conservative forces in South Korea.
• 21:01
  And it uh goes back to some extent to uh the China issue, because uh, for example, when uh in in Korea these days, a lot of young people have been uh becoming more politically conservative, uh, pro-US as opposed to the uh that generation from the uh that grew up in the 70s and 80s, the young folks now are also awakening to the threat of the Chinese Communist Party, and therefore they have been rallying against Chinese communist influence uh within South Korea, but in response to that, the left-wing government of the ruling Democratic Party of the leftist president uh Li J Myung has really been using various means, legal and other to crack down upon any manifestations, either literally manifestations in terms of protests or or even online uh uh pushback against uh Chinese communist uh forces.
• 21:01
  And it uh goes back to some extent to uh the China issue, because uh, for example, when uh in in Korea these days, a lot of young people have been uh becoming more politically conservative, uh pro US, as opposed to the uh that generation from the uh that grew up in the 70s and 80s, the young folks now are also awakening to the threat of the Chinese Communist Party, and therefore they have been rallying against Chinese communist.
• 21:56
  So that that is an issue and it's linked to China.
• 22:01
  So and you you're experiencing this, that there is definitely a pushback.
• 22:05
  Is this creating any reluctance on the parts of part of some activists to stand up against the current government?
• 22:13
  Um well they're they're really continuing their their struggle, but uh it's uh they have uh they have to operate under the the framework of the government uh uh criminalizing uh some speech and activities uh targeting uh communist uh China and its influence uh in South Korea, but nevertheless, they're continuing full speed ahead.
• 22:35
  There, for example, this will sound familiar to uh to many uh Americans.
• 22:39
  They're they're campaigning against the Confucius Institutes in Korea, because at one time uh there were the number of uh Confucian institutes in South Korea exceeded those in any other country, and that was obviously of concern to the Patriots in South Korea, and they've been uh uh campaigning against that.
• 22:59
  So there is still a lively and strong opposition, which is which is pro-American, the you you would fairly characterize it.
• 23:08
  Yes, indeed, and uh uh on YouTube channels, uh uh although uh they're mostly in Korean language almost entirely, you can see every weekend large numbers of conservative pro-U.S.
• 23:19
  forces gathering in downtown Seoul, waving uh their own national flag, of course, but also waving uh US flags, even uh Israeli flags uh and uh protesting against their their their current left-wing uh government, sometimes in the hundreds of thousands.
• 23:36
  Wow.
• 23:37
  So are you seeing any signs in America that that politicians here are taking notice of this, that there is a there is a bit of a there is a crisis in South Korea.
• 23:47
  We should be supporting those pro-American forces.
• 23:51
  Uh and and how can we help them?
• 23:54
  There has been uh for a while uh some conservative attention to this, which is uh at first very slight, but now that that's been growing among Korean American conservatives and among uh uh those uh conservatives who have some interest in Korea, uh human rights activists and some people at some conservative think tanks, but just over the last several weeks, this concern has spread very noticeably to uh and months, I should say, months and weeks, to both the uh Trump administration, thankfully, and also just over the last several days to Republican members of Congress who recently um have been uh former uh speaker uh Kevin McCarthy spoke out about this, and just uh even more recently, over 50 members of the House, Republicans, uh issued a statement, uh a letter, uh both uh Cart McCartney and these 50 Republican McCarthy and these 50 Republicans focused, although primarily on trade issues and about uh what they see as discrimination against U.S.
• 24:54
  companies at the expense of Chinese firms in Korea.
• 24:57
  Uh it also did mention the troubling leftward shift of the current uh Korean government and its pro-China tendencies.
• 25:05
  So that is a hopeful sign.
• 25:08
  Okay.
• 25:08
  Well, look, we have to call a quick break here, uh, Lawrence.
• 25:12
  And I want to give back after the break about the implications if this is not cheap.
• 25:19
  You know, why why is South Korea important to America?
• 25:22
  You know, of course it's important to South Koreans, but but why to us?
• 25:26
  So we'll just have a very short break and come back with Lawrence Pig.
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• 27:13
  Welcome back to America Out Loud here with Trevor Louden on Triv Loud Reports, here with Lawrence Pig, who's uh a real expert on the Koreas, both the Communist North and the Free South.
• 27:24
  And the Free South is having some problems uh directed by supporters of the Communist North and China.
• 27:32
  Now here's the thing.
• 27:35
  In America in recent years, there's been a big see the Korean war, which finished shooting and it was from 1949, I believe, to 1953.
• 27:46
  50 to 53, yes.
• 27:48
  50 to 53, sorry.
• 27:50
  The shooting finished in 1953, but there's never then there was there's never been a formal pace.
• 27:56
  The war is still on, and there's approximately 30,000 U.S.
• 28:00
  Approximately 30,000 U.S.
• 28:01
  troops in South Korea.
• 28:01
  troops in South Korea.
• 28:03
  Now, the hard left here, the pro-North Korean left, has been campaigning and working with Democratic Congress members and one Republican, I believe, to try and get the war formally ended.
• 28:03
  Now, the the hard left here, the pro-North Korean left has been campaigning and working with Democratic Congress members and one Republican, I believe, to try and get the war formally ended.
• 28:18
  What the heck are they doing that for?
• 28:18
  What the heck are they doing that for?
• 28:20
  What is the significance of America declaring the war finished?
• 28:20
  What is the significance of America declaring the war finished?
• 28:25
  Uh what is it?
• 28:26
  What is it?
• 28:27
  75 years after shooting.
• 28:27
  75 years after shooting stopped.
• 28:30
  How is that going to help the North Korean cause?
• 28:34
  This actually goes back among the North Koreans as something on their wish list, so to speak, uh not long after the Korean war ended and has been picked up uh uh by uh left wing and communist forces uh all around the world, and that is to transform the existing armistice agreement into a full-blown so-called peace agreement or end of war formal declaration.
• 28:58
  Actually, South Korea did not sign the uh armistice agreement ending the war.
• 29:03
  It was just China under the phony auspices of their volunte so-called volunteers and uh North Korea and the U.S.
• 29:10
  But the South Koreans didn't sign because at that time they had a very anti-communist government, which was determined eventually to uh to reunify all of Korea under freedom, which unfortunately has not yet occurred.
• 29:21
  But uh this continued uh through the 60s and 70s uh to a point in the mid-70s where the North Korea's uh uh bogus rubber stamp legislature actually sent a letter to Congress, the U.S.
• 29:31
  Congress, proposing this kind of formal peace treaty and end of the Korean war.
• 29:35
  And uh it's been picked up uh with gusto more recently by uh uh pro-North Korean forces in South Korea, and but especially here in the U.S., Marxist Leninist groups of various stripes within and without the Korean American community.
• 29:48
  And the reason, as you alluded to, that they want to promote this idea is part of their long-term goal.
• 29:54
  They see it as a as a method to achieving as a first step towards achieving their long-term goals, which are uh firstly the uh withdrawal of U.S.
• 30:05
  forces from Korea and the concomitant uh end of the U.S.
• 30:10
  South Korea uh a lot military alliance, which uh they then see in the long term, the far long term, as leading to uh the empowerment of uh the uh even more extreme pro-North forces in the South and eventual uh uh uh unification with the North under the terms of the North and just generally the reduction of U.S.
• 30:32
  and free world influence on the uh peninsula.
• 30:35
  Although I should note there was a recent, and by recent I mean just two less than two years, shift uh at least publicly in North Korean policy with regard to the issue of unification.
• 30:46
  But so that unification could be carried out through military means, couldn't it?
• 30:51
  Uh yes, in terms of a war, that would, of course, there's also some version against the the South, the uh from the North, uh, but uh military means uh in the heaven forbid the case of another war would be one aspect of it.
• 31:04
  Although when I alluded to the change in policy, uh uh it was in the at the end of 2023 when Kim Jong-un, the grandson of the founder of North Korea, Kim Il sung, the current ruler Kim Jong-un, um uh publicly stated that uh he was no longer uh going to emphasize reunification and that he now considered South Korea to be a full-fledged enemy state and no longer South Korean brethren uh toiling under the imperialistic rule of the U.S., but actually as enemies, and uh therefore there's been somewhat of a shift, at least in terms of their propaganda.
• 31:37
  Of course, they still uh the North Koreans do uh uh have as a long-term goal uh at the very least the neutralization, what some may call the Finlandization of South Korea, and at the most the uh the absorption and domination of the South.
• 31:54
  Right.
• 31:54
  So either having South Korea become more or less a puppet of the North, or you know, because like Finland was a puppet of the Soviet Union for many years, even though the Finns beat the Russians in a war, um they really became dominated politically and and uh especially in foreign policy by the Soviet Union, and that's obviously the goal there.
• 32:17
  The other thing is if if that war ends, I believe that would mean that South the North Korea may be able to trade more with the West, the United States, which would be good for their economy and good for their war machine, would it not?
• 32:33
  Well, yes, part of the package, part of the deal being proposed by the pro-North forces and others on the left, is that uh pursuant to these uh uh plans that they have for a formal peace agreement with between North Korea and the U.S.
• 32:46
  and for an end of formal end of war declaration, pursuant to these plans, there would emerge uh they hope, uh, formal U.S.
• 32:55
  diplomatic recognition of North Korea, and the same uh by South Korea.
• 33:00
  And this would, as you mentioned, uh open the way to to trade and importantly, from the North Korean perspective, uh a serious reduction or even an elimination of sanctions on the North, which would then uh boost uh North Korea's uh uh troubled uh economy to say the least, which would enable the North to be able to procure uh not only uh economic goodies but also improve their uh military and be able to pump more money into their nuclear uh program.
• 33:31
  So that's a big goal of the North Koreans uh to get these goodies, which are being these concessions, which are being which would be offered to them pursuant to this uh end-of-war declaration and so-called peace agreement.
• 33:44
  And that's the key point.
• 33:45
  This is not for the betterment of the North Korean people.
• 33:48
  This is for the improvement of the North Korean military and its its power to its ability to project power in its region.
• 33:57
  This is the same reason Cuba is always fighting sanctions and lobbying U.S.
• 34:02
  politicians to live sanctions on Cuba, because that means they can carry out more subversive activity in this country and elsewhere.
• 34:10
  So it's so which uh Brad Sherman from um California is Democrat Congressman has been leading the charge here.
• 34:19
  Christine Arne, a long time pro-North Korean activist with links to to known North Korean intelligence officers, has been coordinating a lot of this activity, I believe.
• 34:31
  What other Congress members have been roped into this effort so far?
• 34:38
  Well, uh Sherman was one of the uh original uh sponsors of this bill.
• 34:44
  It's now known as uh 1841 House Resolution or Bill 1841, the so-called Peace on the Korean Peninsula Act.
• 34:52
  And uh at one uh, of course, he has to uh re uh re uh enter it, re uh uh what's the word I'm looking for?
• 35:00
  Uh what's the word I'm looking for?
• 35:01
  Uh well resubmit it to the Congress.
• 35:01
  Uh resubmit it to the Congress.
• 35:04
  Yes, I'm sorry, resubmit it uh each uh term in Congress.
• 35:04
  Yes, I'm sorry, resubmitted uh each uh term in Congress.
• 35:07
  No, there is a word for it, but I can't remember.
• 35:07
  No, there is a word for it, but I can't remember yet.
• 35:09
  Yeah.
• 35:09
  Yeah, and uh he does so every uh new term of Congress, and it in its current iteration, it the number applied to it is 1841, Bill 18, but the name is pretty much remained the same peace on the Korean Peninsula Act.
• 35:10
  And uh he does so every uh new term of Congress.
• 35:13
  And in its current iteration, it the number applied to it is 1841.
• 35:18
  Bill 18, but the name is pretty much remain the same piece on the Korean Peninsula Act.
• 35:22
  But he is just uh really one of the public faces of it.
• 35:22
  But he is just uh really one of the public faces of it.
• 35:25
  At one point there were fit there aren't that many yet.
• 35:25
  At one point there were fit there aren't that many yet, but uh in a pre
• 35:28
  But uh in a previous Congress or in a previous session of Congress, there were as many as 50 five zero uh co-sponsors of it, the vast majority being uh Democrats.
• 35:39
  Uh at one point I think there were one or two Republicans who they managed to dupe into uh into uh sponsoring it.
• 35:46
  Yeah, and and virtual democrats are on the far left.
• 35:50
  You know, yes, a lot of them were from the uh a number of them were from the uh the most vocal supporters of the um the the far left and from the uh you know the old the the AOC uh group, uh the Ilhan Omar group within the uh with the Democratic Party, the squad and and others of their ilk.
• 36:08
  But uh there were also a number of main quote-unquote mainstream left democrats who who had signed on to it.
• 36:16
  Yeah, I think it's definitely a left-wing-driven thing, though.
• 36:19
  And so it seems pretty innocuous.
• 36:21
  Oh, let's just end the war that uh actually ended 70 years ago.
• 36:26
  But from the North Korean point of view, uh, this would be a major boost to the regime, both economically, morally, politically, um, influence-wise.
• 36:38
  So it it would be no benefit to the West from doing this, but there would certainly be to the North Korean North Korean.
• 36:45
  And the fascinating and quite appalling thing about this bill in particular and other such proposals, but this bill in particular is it is uploaded with all of these concessions to the North, some of which I outlined, yet it does not demand or even request any reciprocal actions by the North, whether it's on nuclear program, whether it's on human rights, whether it's on their uh various other uh illegal activities such as hacking or uh online stealing of Bitcoin or other such various uh uh ignobile activities that they're involved in, even as we speak.
• 37:19
  There's nothing of that whatsoever within the bill.
• 37:21
  It's just a wish list of Kim Jong-un and the North Korean regime from which we derive no concession, reciprocal concessions uh in return.
• 37:30
  They're not even promising to stop um forging our currency, which they're apparently masters at.
• 37:36
  They're one of the leading worlds, uh North Korea's allegedly one of the leading counterfeiters around the world of American currency.
• 37:43
  Is that correct?
• 37:44
  Yes, and interestingly, uh they they did so uh in when they did so uh a couple of decades ago when they started really working on that.
• 37:52
  They did so with the assistance of uh Marxist-Leninist parties, particularly in Ireland, uh to uh to spread this uh uh this phony currency around.
• 38:04
  Uh and uh historically speaking, it actually goes back to pre-Korean war days when South Korean communists in the South uh under the uh the US military government, which temporarily had uh authority over South Korea before uh the South Korean Republic was established in 1948.
• 38:24
  So between 45 and 48, the US military government was uh was uh basically overseeing South Korea until uh it became independent in 48.
• 38:32
  But in those interim years, the communists in South Korea, uh, in addition to staging communist uprisings prior to the Korean War, uh, actually uh were then involved in those earliest days in counterfeiting, and they were caught doing so, and that's one of the reasons why the US military government at the time uh outlawed the South Korean uh communist uh party, because they were involved in counterfeiting at that time it was South Korean currency.
• 38:58
  So this is they're pretty good at it.
• 39:00
  Apparently they're a hundred dollar bills, are so perfect that uh they're better than the American ones, and that's how you find them.
• 39:08
  But that damage our economy by doing that.
• 39:12
  Uh some of the world's worst forges, because people will think, oh, who cares about North Korea?
• 39:17
  You know, they might threaten Japan, they might threaten um South Korea, but they're not going to harm us.
• 39:22
  But they are harming us all the time.
• 39:24
  Well, the damage that they're doing to the world and to us in particular economically now is not they're they're far past uh they they view that, I guess, as a little bit old-fashioned now, the the actual counterfeiting of actual currency.
• 39:36
  Now, the way that they're stealing uh actually hundreds of millions, billions in some cases, in some estimates, over many year period of dollars, is through their online uh hacking and cryptocurrency uh shenanigans, where their uh these North Korean hackers, and this has come out uh just over the past uh uh decade or so, especially the past several years, will pose as uh will pretend that they're not North Koreans.
• 40:02
  They'll they'll pose as South Koreans or people of other Asian nationalities, and they'll do these online interviews with American tech companies, and they'll work for them remotely.
• 40:12
  In some cases, they've been able to successfully do this and thereby uh burrow into the computer systems of these companies and steal technology and steal funds from them uh and do to do so more generally through the use of these crypto uh currencies.
• 40:26
  But just recently, a couple weeks ago, there was an interesting uh video which uh went viral uh online about uh the fact that US companies being alerted to this by American authorities have become have become uh implementing certain security procedures when they'll have someone on video on a Zoom call doing an interview from a remote location with a large American tech firm or with a with a with a cryptocurrency company, and they'll be interviewing this ordinary-looking Korean fellow who speaks English perfectly.
• 40:54
  And uh as a security procedure, though, they've started demanding that this person who they're interviewing, who's actually a North Korean based either in North Korea or in some other uh uh Southeast Asian country, perhaps in Vladivostok, perhaps in Phnom Penh, Cambodia, but uh, you know, uh not revealing that obviously that they're North Korean and speaking English fluently to is part of this job interview.
• 41:18
  Uh the American companies, I believe at the instruction of the U.S.
• 41:21
  authorities have become more sophisticated.
• 41:23
  So now, during these uh online face-to-face interviews, they will demand that the person they're interviewing say something such as Kim Jong-un is a fat pig.
• 41:33
  And the viral I referred to, you can actually see online, which had popped up over the last month or two, where the minute the uh corporate uh human resources uh staffer who's online with these North Koreans will ask them to say this this phrase, the the video will then be immediately be cut off.
• 41:50
  The North Koreans will look a little flustered and they'll immediately shut down the connection.
• 41:54
  So that's one way that these US companies have now been able to shut down these efforts at infiltration.
• 42:01
  Well, that's very clever, because imagine you wouldn't want to be caught online calling your dear leader a fat pig.
• 42:01
  Well, that's very clever, because imagine you wouldn't want to be caught online calling your dear leader a fat pig.
• 42:07
  Your life would be worth nothing after that, I should imagine.
• 42:07
  Your life would be worth nothing after that, I should imagine.
• 42:10
  And the life of your family, because in Korea they have a system where just like in the uh in the old Soviet Union or in communist China, there in North Korea, it's highly uh uh codified, known as the Songbun system, where each person uh is uh is put into a certain category, for example, the core category of.
• 42:10
  And the life of your family, because in Korea, they have a system where just like in the uh in the old Soviet Union or in communist China, there in North Korea, it's highly uh uh codified, known as the Songbun system, where each person uh is uh is put into a certain category, for example, the core category of supporters of the regime, or the neutral category or the hostile category uh from birth, and that those labels will attach to your descendants as well as your progeny and uh determine basically what your status will be in life.
• 42:44
  Well, it goes three generations, I believe, doesn't it?
• 42:48
  Yes, or perhaps even longer.
• 42:50
  Wow.
• 42:51
  Well, we find it hard to comprehend.
• 42:54
  So, okay, so North Korea is a threat in many ways.
• 42:58
  Obviously, they they uh uh probably have nuclear weapons.
• 43:02
  Um they are they are sorry gates for the Russians in Ukraine, they uh they have designs on invading South Korea.
• 43:14
  But okay, but South Korea itself.
• 43:16
  So so what a big deal.
• 43:18
  So South Korea sort of becomes part of communist China, becomes a uh uh more or less a province of communist China.
• 43:27
  So what?
• 43:28
  Well what implications would that have for the United States and for the West?
• 43:33
  It really would have very grave implications for the West for the United States, uh, in several ways.
• 43:40
  One being, of course, that uh if if that were to happen, the US would be pushed off the peninsula in militarily, uh increasingly economically, uh diplomatic influence all would be uh off the table then, as compared to the good relationship we have had with various uh South pro-US South Korean uh governments.
• 44:02
  So would we would basically be pushed off of that uh peninsula?
• 44:06
  And uh another uh grave consequence uh would be that whether it be communist China or North Korea would then have uh access to and a uh primary uh dominating role over the highly sophisticated and advanced South Korean economy with all of its technological and manufacturing uh know-how, many Americans don't realize uh because they have a little bit uh of an archaic uh outdated view of South Korea, although they have their Samsung phones and their LG washing machines and their Hyundai cars, they don't realize how technically uh technologically advanced South Korea has become, just as Taiwan has become, and uh the communists have their eyes on it also uh uh on South Korea for the same reason they have their eyes on Taiwan in order to benefit from and to have access to all of this high uh technology.
• 44:59
  And see, I know the silicon chips, so many of them have made in South Korea.
• 45:04
  So so if South Korea became a under Chinese dominance, and say if there was a war between you know China and America and the Chinese is certainly planning one, and uh many think such a war is ultimately inevitable.
• 45:20
  What isn't South Korea a valuable part of the Western alliance against that war?
• 45:26
  Wouldn't that have implications for Japan, the Philippines, for Taiwan?
• 45:30
  Wouldn't we be losing a major ally, uh a major military ally as well as technological ally?
• 45:38
  That's certainly true, and that is precisely an issue which has come to the fore in recent months and weeks, especially uh over the past uh year, I might say, since the uh almost a year, a little short of a year since the inauguration of the leftist Li Jamyong government, the ruling Democratic Party government.
• 45:55
  Uh what I mean by that is that uh uh when the US uh under President Trump has uh been requesting and been planning for the South Korean uh military to play some role at least at the very least in supporting U.S.
• 46:11
  forces should conflict erupt, uh, for example, over Taiwan or other areas uh in that region, uh, that the U.S.
• 46:19
  would expect that and would be able to use its forces based in Korea to repel any such aggression.
• 46:26
  But the problem therein is that this new relatively new South Korean government has been opposed to that kind of collaboration, uh openly so.
• 46:36
  And they have uh president from President Lee Jamyung down to all of his uh uh unreconstructed far-left advisors and members uh of the uh legislators there, the legislature there uh who belonged to the Democratic Party, have been uh uh pushing back against these US uh uh proposals and these US uh plans.
• 46:58
  Uh, even when Li Ji M was running for president uh about a year ago, there's one famous there was one famous incident where uh um he's on stage campaigning and he says uh in Korean, of course, uh, we should just say uh thank you to China, and we should just say, Shesh yeah thank you to Taiwan and not be involved in their dispute.
• 47:17
  It has nothing to do with this.
• 47:19
  Uh it's not in our lane, and uh uh and that uh campaign statement has morphed into his policy now of pushing back against actually in in uh in some cases refusing uh US prodding to play a greater role as Japan has been willing to play in in serving as a backstop against uh possible Chinese aggression.
• 47:43
  Well, Japan under its new conservative president has uh they're rebuilding the military, they've taken a very strong pro-Western stance, but they must be freaking out uh at the prospect of a Chinese dominated or even a North Korean dominated South Korea.
• 48:00
  Surely it must, and and Taiwan similarly must be very worried about this.
• 48:07
  Yes, I imagine they are, although uh in terms of relations with Japan, Lee has been treading the current president left-wing president Lee has been treading a little more carefully because he knows that's a sensitive issue for the US, because uh his one of his predecessors, uh a previous uh left-wing South Korean uh president uh Moon, uh he took a very hard public line against Japan, uh even going to the extent of opposing uh uh military cooperation or intelligence sharing uh with Japan, or at least uh proposing to end it.
• 48:39
  And uh Lee has uh which very much upset the US and Lee has somewhat learned his lesson uh so to speak in terms of that policy because he created a lot of friction between the US and and South Korea.
• 48:50
  So he's been careful to try and avoid that kind of uh anti-Japan uh friction, although uh the current uh uh or the or I should say the long term uh habit of the South Korean left in general has been whenever they face a crisis to play up the uh the nationalist card, which means uh effectively the anti Japan or the and or the anti US card.
• 49:00
  Or I should say the long-term uh habit of the South Korean left in general has been whenever they face a crisis to play up the uh the nationalist card, which means uh effectively the anti-Japan or or the and or the anti-US card.
• 49:17
  Yeah, well, it's obviously a lot of uh that's pretty pretty easy to do in South Korea.
• 49:17
  Yeah, well, it's obviously a lot of uh that's probably pretty easy to do in South Korea.
• 49:21
  There must be a lot of enmity, you know, dating back to World War II, etc.
• 49:21
  There must be a lot of enmity, you know, dating back to World War II, etc.
• 49:26
  So, but but you know, like I I think this is critical because.
• 49:26
  So, but but you know, like I I think this is critical because you know there is a confrontation looming in Asia.
• 49:34
  There's uh there's military, there's this geopolitical, there's economic, and South Korea is a very important part of that machine, you know, of and to lose it to China would be a disaster in all sorts of ways, in my opinion, let alone for the Chinese for the South Korean people themselves.
• 49:56
  So what do we need to be thinking about?
• 49:59
  What do we need to be doing?
• 50:00
  Is there any way we can help?
• 50:02
  Is there any way the Trump administration, for instance, could help uh the conservative forces in South Korea and maybe even help bring them back to power?
• 50:13
  Well, the elections uh in South Korea aren't going to be for a while.
• 50:17
  Actually, in up in this coming early June, just uh here in California, when we're having our primaries in South Korea, they'll be having a local elections.
• 50:24
  Um unfortunately the left seems to be if the opinion polls can be trusted ahead, and by local I mean uh you know mayors of cities and uh positions of that nature, which is important in South Korea, where you only have uh uh you know a handful of very large major cities, and that can uh impact uh national politics to a degree.
• 50:43
  Uh so those elections are coming up, but uh we'll have to see how those turn out in early June is as a bellwether of when the next legislative elections uh may take place there uh in a few years and eventually uh uh uh several years later the next uh presidential election.
• 50:58
  But in terms of what we can do as Americans, uh as lovers of freedom, as uh conservatives who want the best for ourselves and for the South Koreans, uh, would be to um express to their representatives in Congress uh the what they uh are learning through uh yourself and myself and others um about the problems which have arisen, the crisis which is actually arisen in U.S.
• 51:24
  South Korean relations due to this left-wing government that they have there, and to urge uh for Americans to urge their representatives to urge the administration more generally to take a strong stand and to not be not be duped, uh, not be deceived by the uh uh snow jobs, the smiling faces, which uh the South Korean regime and its friends in the U.S.
• 51:47
  attempt to portray uh in the U.S.
• 51:52
  uh there's whenever uh there have been uh American politicians, other officials, conservatives who have spoken out against uh the left-wing policies and actions and statements of the South Korean regime.
• 52:04
  You always have a strong pushback, uh, both from the South Korean government who will in a panicked state will send envoys here to say, oh no, no, not true, don't believe it.
• 52:13
  Uh, or among the uh left here, whether it's uh in the Korean American community or whether it's in the the non-Korean community who are willing to uh vouch for uh the the government there and deny uh uh the the uh the danger that its leftward lurch poses to our interests.
• 52:32
  Yeah, well, the left is well known for lying.
• 52:34
  They always do that.
• 52:36
  They say, Oh no, we're not anti-American, as they uh burning um American flags.
• 52:42
  So we but so it's fair to say we need to be a lot more aware because South Korea is a lot more important to us than most Americans realize, and it's a lot more danger than most of us would dream.
• 52:57
  Both those statements fear, do you think?
• 53:00
  Yes, uh and uh because there's a there's a problem which in facts some of those in DC who deal with Korea and others who don't deal with Korea but have some uh interest in the topic nevertheless, and that is uh what one might call a normalcy bias, South Korea, and that manifests in self and in people believing, even some experts uh unfortunately believing, uh whether they be uh ex-military folks or ex-government officials or members of Congress or advisors to the government, academics, journalists, et cetera, uh, who take the view that, well, South Korea has always been a has in the past, I should say, uh uh under conservative governments in particular, which tend to be pro-US, of course, has been a good loyal friend of the U.S.
• 53:40
  We have a uh a good uh uh alliance with them, which is beneficial for both countries, and things having been this way will always continue in this frame, and that there's no real uh threat to it.
• 53:51
  And oh, there may from time to time they kind of poo-poo these these advances of the South Korean left and anti-American forces there as a kind of a minor speed bump and not really anything to get too excited about.
• 54:02
  And therefore, uh some of these uh these individuals uh uh in DC policymakers and those who influence policymakers uh tend to take the uh a kind of a uh not only a Pollyanish view, but uh uh the they tend to be sometimes uh extremely reluctant to engage in uh any criticism of a South Korean government for the fear that uh it'll somehow harm the alliance or that the South Korean left will will react to it in in uh in negative ways, or that it uh it will uh you know rock the boat, so to speak, and the uh they therefore uh hold back on uh some perfectly justified and uh I believe necessary criticism of certain uh policies and and statements of South Korean uh leftist leaders.
• 54:47
  And I think such criticism would be welcomed by South Korean conservatives and be an encouragement to them, would it not?
• 54:55
  Not just welcomed, but it literally thrills them.
• 54:59
  Um I can uh cite one example of that when Michelle uh Steele, uh the former California uh congresswoman who uh uh I I uh had the pleasure of meeting on several occasions.
• 55:09
  Uh uh she um has just been nominated by President Trump just over the past uh uh few weeks to be our new ambassador.
• 55:17
  That space that uh and she is known as a strong supporter of uh uh of uh President Trump and a strong conservative and also an opponent of the North Korean and Chinese uh regimes and the South Koreans were.
• 55:35
  I'm sorry, he is of Korean.
• 55:38
  Yes, yes, uh yes, Michelle uh uh was actually uh born in in South Korea, and uh uh her husband is a uh leading Republican figure uh here in Los Angeles.
• 55:49
  Her maiden name was Mar uh was Park, Michelle Park, uh sometimes she goes by Michelle Park Steele.
• 55:54
  Um and Michelle Steele would therefore be an excellent choice.
• 55:57
  And when her nomination was announced, the pro-US conservative forces in Korea were just wild with joy.
• 56:00
  Pro-US conservative forces in Korea were just wild with joy.
• 56:03
  It's really hard to do.
• 56:03
  It's really hard to do that.
• 56:04
  Oh, great.
• 56:04
  Oh, right, correct.
• 56:05
  Great.
• 56:05
  Uh just as they're wild with joy when they see an American politician or expert who has the fortitude and doesn't have this reticence or fear of of coming out and publicly criticizing the uh the uh left wing and pro-China tendencies among some in South Korea.
• 56:06
  Just as they're wild with joy when they see an American politician or expert who has the fortitude and doesn't have this reticence or fear of coming out and publicly criticizing the uh the uh left wing and pro-China tendencies among some in South Korea.
• 56:22
  They're really encouraged by it, they're thrilled by it, and uh they just see it as uh as something which is uh obviously uh helpful to their their
• 56:22
  They're really encouraged by it, they're thrilled by it, and uh they just see it as uh as something which is uh obviously uh helpful to their their cause and most welcome to them.
• 56:32
  Great.
• 56:32
  Well, look look, unfortunately, um we we have to Lawrence, we have to sign off here.
• 56:38
  We've we've done our time.
• 56:40
  But I I think we've covered a lot of ground, and I want to end on that note that America can encourage the South Korean patriots, the South Korean conservatives, by letting them know we we care, we that we are following events in their country.
• 56:55
  We regard their country as extremely important.
• 56:58
  So uh look, uh we'll have to do this again soon, Lawrence, and just uh I I trust you you can keep us abreast of trends, positive and negative that may occur in the Koreas in the recent future, in the recent uh in the near future, if you would.
• 57:15
  Be happy to do so.
• 57:16
  Thank you for having me.
• 57:17
  Thank you very much, Lawrence.
• 57:19
  Uh signing out now, Travel Out Reports on America Out Loud.
• 57:22
  God bless everybody.
• 57:24
  God bless everyone.