Transcript

Credlin | 22 May · Credlin

0:02
Speaker 1: Peedo Krandland live on Sky News Australia.
0:08
Speaker 2: Good evening and welcome to show. It never rains, but
0:10
Speaker 2: a pause, I'll tell you what. Here's what's coming up
0:11
Speaker 2: tonight on the program. Another World win day in Canberra.
0:15
Speaker 2: The coalition breakup, well it's not yet a make up,
0:17
Speaker 2: but the breakup's on pause just moments ago, and use that.
0:20
Speaker 2: Susan Lee has convened the meeting of her party room
0:24
Speaker 2: to specifically address those four policy requests from the Nationals,
0:27
Speaker 2: including nuclear energy. Tonight I look at both sides of
0:30
Speaker 2: the story and National Party leader David Little proud and
0:33
Speaker 2: also we hope ending that meeting of course, newly elected
0:35
Speaker 2: Liberal Deputy Ted O'Brien. Tragedy in Washington, d C. Two
0:40
Speaker 2: Israeli embassy staff has gunned down in a blatantly anti
0:44
Speaker 2: Semitic attack. I'll get you an update on that later.
0:48
Speaker 2: UK Labour two it's put in a yah. Well, the
0:51
Speaker 2: surrendering of the Chagos Islands is up at the air
0:56
Speaker 2: with a last minute court injunction economic heavy It's Phil
1:00
Speaker 2: Low and Ken Henry have joined together to have a
1:03
Speaker 2: bit of a whack of Jim Chalmers in this absurd
1:05
Speaker 2: policy that attacks unrealized gains on super It's a welcome intervention,
1:09
Speaker 2: but others will. They're demanding Labor ram it through the
1:11
Speaker 2: Parliament before too many people work out what the policy
1:16
Speaker 2: really does. And that bit of hope tonight the coalition
1:20
Speaker 2: getting together. Maybe certainly Australia needs a viable opposition given
1:25
Speaker 2: that Labour's record majority risks seeing them exceed their voter mandate.
1:31
Speaker 3: This is a positive step forward, one in which we've
1:34
Speaker 3: always said wou'd be productive and constructive.
1:41
Speaker 2: But first, as you heard me say, it looks like
1:43
Speaker 2: a bit of sanity is returning inside both the Liberal
1:46
Speaker 2: and the National Party rooms regarding this split in the
1:49
Speaker 2: coalition that, if not swiftly mended, would condemn both of
1:53
Speaker 2: them to permanent opposition and would have left Australia more
1:57
Speaker 2: or less indefinitely with a woefully Labor government. Now, this
2:02
Speaker 2: is a split that should never have even been contemplated. Sure,
2:06
Speaker 2: they've just had their worst defeat ever, but why make
2:10
Speaker 2: it worse with decapitation after you've already lost a league
2:13
Speaker 2: and an arm So today there's been a bit of
2:17
Speaker 2: walking back from the brink. Here's the National Party leader,
2:21
Speaker 2: David Little Proud she made.
2:24
Speaker 3: An offer to reconvene her party room to discuss the
2:28
Speaker 3: four policy areas that the National Party demand as part
2:32
Speaker 3: of a coalition agreement, and I thank her for that,
2:35
Speaker 3: and as a consequence, I have decided to send those
2:39
Speaker 3: spokespeople home as a sign of good faith, and Susan
2:42
Speaker 3: as a sign.
2:43
Speaker 1: Of good faith. That will not be announcing should I
2:46
Speaker 1: came it.
2:48
Speaker 4: Now.
2:48
Speaker 2: I've already spoken to David Little Proud. I'll bring that
2:50
Speaker 2: interview in a moment, but he has revealed a lot
2:52
Speaker 2: more than has previously been on the public record. Clearly,
2:57
Speaker 2: sometime between the decision on Tuesday to walk away and today,
3:01
Speaker 2: Susan Lee has come to understand the reality of going
3:04
Speaker 2: it alone would mean a weakened opposition and all the
3:07
Speaker 2: madness that have highlighted here this week, including liberal shadow
3:12
Speaker 2: ministers who'd have to be stacked if and when the
3:15
Speaker 2: coalition was reunited, or if it wasn't, the fact that
3:19
Speaker 2: different policies would be taken to the next election, making
3:22
Speaker 2: resumption of a coalition even harder, not to mention three
3:25
Speaker 2: cornered contests that would have to be run in seats
3:29
Speaker 2: across the country. Wasted effort, wasted money, wasted votes and
3:34
Speaker 2: for what a fight over four policy areas that up
3:37
Speaker 2: until the third of May, every Liberal had campaigned on.
3:41
Speaker 2: In fact, given the now Liberal leader was there the
3:44
Speaker 2: deputy leader, these were four policy areas that she had
3:48
Speaker 2: personally backed. And the deadline that the Liberals had put
3:51
Speaker 2: on this negotiation of the agreement, well, that too was artificial.
3:55
Speaker 2: After all, Parliament doesn't resume until the twenty second of July.
4:00
Speaker 2: That today was confirmed by the Prime Minister, so that
4:03
Speaker 2: gives them what, eight weeks to sort themselves out? Eight
4:07
Speaker 2: weeks and yet what in a couple of days have
4:10
Speaker 2: almost blown up eighty years of coalition history. It's crazy now. Clearly,
4:16
Speaker 2: what Lee must do now is return to the Liberal
4:19
Speaker 2: Party's long held precedent that post election all policies stand
4:25
Speaker 2: unless they are changed. That's got forty or fifty years
4:28
Speaker 2: of precedent behind it. To think that she can avoid
4:32
Speaker 2: having a party position in the Parliament or in the
4:34
Speaker 2: media until everything is duly reviewed, a process that will
4:38
Speaker 2: take months and months is crazy. Doesn't work like that.
4:42
Speaker 2: No political party, no opposition, can just take itself out
4:46
Speaker 2: of the debate. And that's not to say that Lee
4:49
Speaker 2: can't junk some of Dutton's Captain's calls from the campaign.
4:52
Speaker 2: She can, she should. I think that's reasonable. But policy
4:57
Speaker 2: positions are like nuclear that have been through through a
5:00
Speaker 2: proper shadow cabinet process, through the party room, or they
5:04
Speaker 2: should stand as they've always stood, or she's creating a
5:08
Speaker 2: rod for her back and for the opposition. Now, if
5:12
Speaker 2: Lee had pushed on today as was planned and announced
5:16
Speaker 2: her shadow ministry, fixing this whole mess would have been
5:19
Speaker 2: so much harder. That's because if she had filled all
5:23
Speaker 2: thirty front bench positions with Liberals, given her commitment not
5:28
Speaker 2: to then remove anyone, how could the coalition reform if
5:32
Speaker 2: there was no room for senior Nationals.
5:36
Speaker 5: If you get back together, you're going to have to
5:37
Speaker 5: take seven Nationals into shadow cabinet, So you're going to
5:41
Speaker 5: have to dump seven Liberals. So how do you reconcile
5:45
Speaker 5: those two with what you just said to Tom?
5:46
Speaker 6: I can only repeat what I've said, which is that
5:48
Speaker 6: the shadow ministry that I appoint of worthy and talented
5:53
Speaker 6: Liberals are well equipped to take the fight up to
5:56
Speaker 6: the next election, and they will, and any discussions with
6:00
Speaker 6: the Nationals may happen on the eve of the next election.
6:04
Speaker 6: And may revolve around what is implemented post the next
6:07
Speaker 6: election when a coalition forms in government.
6:12
Speaker 2: I have to say I don't think she was brief
6:14
Speaker 2: properly before that press conference. None of this stuff was
6:17
Speaker 2: thought through in stared. Perhaps she could have chosen to
6:20
Speaker 2: leave today seven spots vacant, thereby sending a signal to
6:24
Speaker 2: the Nationals that she was committed to mending the breach,
6:27
Speaker 2: But there were plenty of moderate Liberals demanding that every
6:30
Speaker 2: spot be filled. So she was on a hiding to nothing,
6:33
Speaker 2: and the only real way forward was her approach to
6:37
Speaker 2: little prown Today. As John Howard and Tony Abbott always demonstrated,
6:42
Speaker 2: it's incumbent on the senior coalition partner to be the
6:45
Speaker 2: most magnanimous to treat their junior partner as just that
6:49
Speaker 2: a partner, not merely subservient colleagues to be tolerated. Now,
6:55
Speaker 2: this is the clearest sign yet that the coalition will
6:57
Speaker 2: reform and recommit to policies they took to the election
7:02
Speaker 2: until and unless adjusted by the usual shadow cabinet and
7:06
Speaker 2: joint party processes over this term of government. Thank goodness,
7:12
Speaker 2: that way it leads the Lives and the Nats together
7:14
Speaker 2: have a fighting chance to regain some of the ground
7:17
Speaker 2: they have lost in twenty twenty eight. Today's developments show
7:21
Speaker 2: the influence too that respective former leaders could still have.
7:24
Speaker 2: Now you've already heard John Howard say this split is stupid.
7:29
Speaker 7: The history of Australia suggests that the glory days of
7:33
Speaker 7: the Liberal Party and the National Party, the Old Country Party,
7:36
Speaker 7: are when they are working together in government.
7:42
Speaker 2: In today too, we heard from another former Prime minister,
7:45
Speaker 2: Tony Abbott.
7:46
Speaker 8: Now I think it's deeply regrettable because the history shows
7:49
Speaker 8: that the coalition wins together and loses separately. The Liberal
7:56
Speaker 8: and the National Party they win together and they lose.
8:00
Speaker 8: And I think it's very important that there is a
8:03
Speaker 8: strong and clear alternative to a deeply underwhelming government. And
8:08
Speaker 8: if the lives in the nuts go their separate ways,
8:11
Speaker 8: we won't have one strong opposition. We'll have two opposition
8:16
Speaker 8: parties that are fighting each other as much as they're
8:19
Speaker 8: fighting a bad government. And that's a recipe for permanent opposition,
8:23
Speaker 8: and it's a recipe for permanent poor government in our country.
8:27
Speaker 8: So I think for our country's sake as well as
8:29
Speaker 8: for their own sakes, the Liberal Party and the National
8:33
Speaker 8: Party need to get back together again as soon as possible.
8:39
Speaker 2: So well, now wait a week or two or more.
8:42
Speaker 2: As I said, Parliament's not back for eight weeks. Well,
8:45
Speaker 2: then get a renewed coalition cross front bench, we hope
8:49
Speaker 2: and hopefully too, a renewed and more effective opposition to
8:53
Speaker 2: bad policy from what will be a poor government. Nothing's
8:57
Speaker 2: changed with Labor. They are a shocking government line turn,
9:01
Speaker 2: only this time they're more emboldened. And Abtu offered this
9:05
Speaker 2: assessment with his usual clarity about why the Liberals lost
9:08
Speaker 2: as badly as they did.
9:11
Speaker 8: The Liberals and the Nationals have been the most successful
9:14
Speaker 8: political partnership in Australia. They've governed the countries for fifty
9:18
Speaker 8: one of the last seventy six years. Why blow it
9:21
Speaker 8: all up just because we've suffered a disastrous loss. I mean,
9:27
Speaker 8: work out what went wrong. Sure, but it wasn't the
9:31
Speaker 8: coalition that was had fought here. People did not vote
9:34
Speaker 8: against the fact that the Libs and the Nets are together.
9:38
Speaker 8: They voted against the fact that we were not as
9:41
Speaker 8: sufficiently clear al to the Labor Party.
9:45
Speaker 2: And he's not wrong, is he? That's pretty much what
9:47
Speaker 2: most of you have been telling me and the hundreds
9:49
Speaker 2: and hundreds of emails have sent me since election night. Sadly,
9:53
Speaker 2: as I've said before, there's obviously some inside the Liberals
9:56
Speaker 2: who actually wanted the coalition to break, presumably so they
10:01
Speaker 2: could drive what was left the rump of the Liberal Party,
10:05
Speaker 2: what was left to adopt more labor life positions, particularly
10:09
Speaker 2: on energy. He was a pretty churlish response from a
10:12
Speaker 2: former MP who lost his seat to a Teal Jason
10:15
Speaker 2: Felinski clearly disappointed that the coalition is now going to
10:19
Speaker 2: be maintained, blaming the National Party today for the Lib's
10:23
Speaker 2: poor performance in the past couple of elections.
10:26
Speaker 9: It was very hard to watch that press conference with
10:29
Speaker 9: David Little Proud and not feel very sad and about
10:33
Speaker 9: this situation and just some of the contradictory things that
10:37
Speaker 9: were being said by the participants, so for example, to
10:40
Speaker 9: talk about good faith and that we've negotiated in good
10:43
Speaker 9: faith when he decided to pull out of the coalition
10:48
Speaker 9: while Susan was planning her mother's funeral, gave Susan half
10:53
Speaker 9: an hour's notice.
10:56
Speaker 1: You know, has put.
10:57
Speaker 9: Demands in the coalition agreement around policy, which to my
11:00
Speaker 9: understanding have never existed in that agreement. Before, they're not
11:05
Speaker 9: the acts of good faith.
11:08
Speaker 2: Now I put a lot of that too, David Little Proud,
11:11
Speaker 2: and you will be surprised with his response. He doesn't miss.
11:15
Speaker 2: I mean, this idea that it's the Liberals whose vote
11:19
Speaker 2: has been hit by the National Party does not bear
11:23
Speaker 2: out in reality. It's not the Nationals who've bled seats
11:25
Speaker 2: at the most recent elections. I mean, liberals like Felinsky
11:29
Speaker 2: might like to say that the Nationals Tiles Waigh the
11:31
Speaker 2: Liberal dog, but more often than not, in my experience,
11:34
Speaker 2: it's the Nats who have helped ensure the coalition has
11:36
Speaker 2: had a clear difference with Labor. I mean, just look
11:39
Speaker 2: at the voice, look at nuclear energy. In my time
11:42
Speaker 2: it was the Nats opposition to Kevin Runtz carbon tax
11:46
Speaker 2: the turn that tied as well. History shows that the
11:49
Speaker 2: Liberal National Coalition does well when it's led strongly from
11:53
Speaker 2: the center right. John Howard won a landslide in nineteen
11:57
Speaker 2: ninety six twenty have but two and twenty thirteen when
12:00
Speaker 2: the coalition goes Labor light, it goes backwards. Malcolm Turnal
12:04
Speaker 2: fourteen seats lost in twenty sixteen and under Scott Morrison
12:08
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty two. We don't forget it. Just committed
12:10
Speaker 2: the coalition to net zero and lost. Now, clearly the
12:14
Speaker 2: opposition needs to do its job and scrutinize a government
12:18
Speaker 2: that's got more seats more power than any labor government
12:21
Speaker 2: in history. This is why mending this rift, getting their
12:26
Speaker 2: mojo back is critical at it again.
12:30
Speaker 8: Until it does happen, the response of this deeply underwhelming
12:35
Speaker 8: government will be just to ridicule the fact that the
12:40
Speaker 8: Lives and the Nets can't get their act together, as
12:43
Speaker 8: opposed to deal with a serious critique of what will
12:46
Speaker 8: inevitably be bad policies. That's why the reformation of the
12:52
Speaker 8: coalition should be urgent rather than something that we just
12:57
Speaker 8: dawdle along towards.
13:01
Speaker 2: Well good on Susan Lee, good on David Little Proud,
13:05
Speaker 2: because whatever now happens, Liberal and National Party MPs need
13:08
Speaker 2: to remember that there must be a reason to vote coalition.
13:13
Speaker 2: Voters won't back a coalition that's just a weak echo
13:17
Speaker 2: of a bad labor government. Again, as Robert Menzies said,
13:22
Speaker 2: defeat disunites the defeated, and now it's time for that
13:27
Speaker 2: to end. As I said, pretty hectic day in Canberra.
13:34
Speaker 2: We'll get the headlines now Skyny's political reporter Trudy McIntosh.
13:38
Speaker 10: The messy divorce of the coalition is now on ice
13:41
Speaker 10: after crisis talks between David Little Proud and Susan Lee.
13:45
Speaker 3: That I'm pausing us moving forward as a national party
13:48
Speaker 3: alone because I would prefer to be in a coalition.
13:51
Speaker 10: But the party is not backing away from its four
13:54
Speaker 10: policy demands, including nuclear and supermarket breakup powers.
13:59
Speaker 3: That you will agree to reform a coalition until you
14:02
Speaker 3: have commitments from the Liberal Party on those four policies.
14:04
Speaker 3: Well that's why we left. That's I mean, I don't
14:07
Speaker 3: know how more principled we can be.
14:09
Speaker 10: Susan Lee welcomed the breakthrough. It has always been the
14:13
Speaker 10: Liberal Party's objective to form a coalition and we welcome
14:16
Speaker 10: the National's decision to re enter negotiations. The Liberals will
14:20
Speaker 10: now consider the four policy positions in their party room.
14:23
Speaker 3: I accepted that as a sign of good faith and
14:25
Speaker 3: as a concession, but made it clear that these four
14:28
Speaker 3: were very very important to us, so I haven't dictated
14:31
Speaker 3: in the timelines in this.
14:32
Speaker 10: As a sign of good faith, both parties have frozen
14:35
Speaker 10: plans to unveil shadow ministry teams.
14:40
Speaker 2: All right, what a day? What a day. I just
14:43
Speaker 2: want to go through a few key issues that have
14:45
Speaker 2: emerged in the last twenty four hours. But I think
14:47
Speaker 2: it's really muddy the waters. Should the Libs and the
14:50
Speaker 2: Nats reform their coalition. There's been an ongoing question over
14:54
Speaker 2: whether cabinets solidarity was a sticking point, something that came
14:57
Speaker 2: up last night when Bridget McKenzie on the ABC.
15:02
Speaker 11: Are you saying Susan Lee is not telling the truth
15:05
Speaker 11: when she says one of the key issues was a
15:07
Speaker 11: request from the Nationals that they not be obliged to
15:11
Speaker 11: maintain shadow cabinet solidarity.
15:14
Speaker 12: So, Sarah, I can tell you because I was in
15:16
Speaker 12: the National Party party room that made this decision, the
15:19
Speaker 12: decision which was then conveyed to the Liberal leader, and
15:24
Speaker 12: that was not part of our consideration.
15:29
Speaker 2: Now, before that interview had even ended, Susan Lee's office had.
15:34
Speaker 11: Texted, We've just received a note from Susan Lee's office
15:38
Speaker 11: saying it is not correct to suggest that shadow cabinet
15:41
Speaker 11: solidarity was not a sticking point and they, that is
15:45
Speaker 11: Susan Lee's office, have that in writing.
15:50
Speaker 2: Jentlemen, how to discuss this and more Daily Telegraph journalist
15:53
Speaker 2: James Willis and media commentator Carolie Katz and barnas well.
15:56
Speaker 2: Carently I spoke to Dave a little proud a little moment.
16:00
Speaker 2: We talked about this issue of cabinet solidarity in particular,
16:03
Speaker 2: and I'll play that interview at a moment. But Heaven
16:05
Speaker 2: help us, I mean, just on good faith behavior of staff.
16:08
Speaker 2: Here the idea that they're texting Ferguson mid show to
16:14
Speaker 2: dump on another MP on in my day, that'll get
16:17
Speaker 2: you sacked.
16:19
Speaker 13: Good evening, Peter, this is absolutely ridiculous. I've watched a
16:22
Speaker 13: complete catastrophe in the last week, whether it was John
16:25
Speaker 13: Persudo and David Shalma going on the ABC Q and A,
16:28
Speaker 13: or whether it's going on at Sarah Ferguson seven to
16:31
Speaker 13: thirty Report. It's like watching friends, but it's like being
16:34
Speaker 13: friends with a divorced couple. This actually has to stop,
16:37
Speaker 13: and it should be. I'm going to give you a
16:39
Speaker 13: different take because I've been thinking about this. I reckon
16:41
Speaker 13: that a lot of this animosity goes way back twenty
16:45
Speaker 13: five years back when Susan Lee first ran for the
16:48
Speaker 13: seat of Farah that belonged to National MP Tim Fisher.
16:52
Speaker 13: And she won it and the Nationals have never ever
16:55
Speaker 13: forgotten it and they never will forget it.
16:58
Speaker 2: That is actually one of.
16:59
Speaker 13: The reasons for this hostility. But this running the agenda
17:04
Speaker 13: through the media and through a leftist media is not
17:08
Speaker 13: helping anybody. Less than three weeks ago they were saying
17:12
Speaker 13: that they are a united front ready to govern for Australia,
17:15
Speaker 13: and all we get is briefing off all the time.
17:17
Speaker 13: They've also remember the ABC, in my view, needs to
17:21
Speaker 13: be defunded.
17:22
Speaker 2: We go on and on about it.
17:23
Speaker 13: Billion dollars worth of taxpayers money funding this organization.
17:27
Speaker 2: They all need to remember three hundred.
17:29
Speaker 13: And sixty five days of every single year they are
17:33
Speaker 13: barracking for these people to lose their seats and for
17:36
Speaker 13: it to be labor wall to wall across Australia.
17:39
Speaker 14: So, for what it's.
17:39
Speaker 13: Worth, Nationals and Liberals, stop doing what you're actually doing.
17:44
Speaker 13: The Australian public is not interested in this. Get your
17:47
Speaker 13: head straight. And when you've got Tony Abbott and John
17:51
Speaker 13: Howard to the most successful prime minises this country has
17:54
Speaker 13: ever had, take note and listen to them, and stop
17:57
Speaker 13: making fools of yourself because everyone and the left media
18:00
Speaker 13: is laughing at you.
18:02
Speaker 2: I'll tell you what, James, I mean, that's strong. That
18:04
Speaker 2: strong words for someone who knows the party inside out.
18:06
Speaker 2: But I'll tell you what if you were not a
18:07
Speaker 2: party member, and if you've thrown your vote Labors way
18:12
Speaker 2: for the first time, or you were a bit unsure
18:13
Speaker 2: and you were spooped into the medi scare worry that
18:16
Speaker 2: you'd lose your health rights, you'd be looking at the
18:20
Speaker 2: entrials of the last two weeks and all this blood
18:22
Speaker 2: letting on the Coalition side and say, you know what,
18:24
Speaker 2: I don't regret regret my choice. That was the right decision.
18:28
Speaker 2: I mean, this is very very untidy.
18:33
Speaker 15: I agree with you, and I think from a media standpoint,
18:37
Speaker 15: Peter and you understand this stuff better than I do.
18:39
Speaker 15: But I would think if this was a football team
18:43
Speaker 15: under fire, the first thing you'd be doing is implementing
18:46
Speaker 15: a media ban on the team or certain players to
18:49
Speaker 15: ensure that this doesn't become a daily talking point. And
18:52
Speaker 15: the fact that there's been so much a rumor in innuendo,
18:56
Speaker 15: and you've had Nationals and Liberals come out and say
19:00
Speaker 15: thing you know that's been rejected by another party. I
19:03
Speaker 15: would have been staying away from the media as much
19:05
Speaker 15: as possible. I really look forward to hearing what David
19:08
Speaker 15: Little Prowd has to say tonight. In saying that, but
19:10
Speaker 15: I just think the rest of some of this coverage,
19:13
Speaker 15: where you've had interviews all over TV and what we
19:15
Speaker 15: just saw with the ABC, has just allowed this to
19:19
Speaker 15: become very messy. I'm deeply concerned.
19:21
Speaker 14: By the way.
19:22
Speaker 15: I agree with you about these leaks that.
19:25
Speaker 8: Have come out.
19:25
Speaker 15: There's been a number of different stories, by the way,
19:27
Speaker 15: in the last few days, as a story on the
19:29
Speaker 15: Australian website this afternoon which has either come from the
19:33
Speaker 15: Nationals MPs involved or from someone in the Liberal Party
19:36
Speaker 15: that's talking about how Susan Lee has been negotiating with
19:39
Speaker 15: individual National MPs. There's quotes there from Barnaby Joyce of course,
19:44
Speaker 15: but the other two with Michael McCormack and Darren Chester.
19:48
Speaker 15: So there's also the other element that is worth noting
19:51
Speaker 15: is that I think David Little Prowd has handled this
19:53
Speaker 15: pretty well. However, keep in mind he was subject to
19:58
Speaker 15: a leadership challenge imediately after the election that was largely
20:01
Speaker 15: based around the coalition agreement as we know Ned zero
20:05
Speaker 15: that was from Matt Cannavan, but when you've got these
20:07
Speaker 15: MPs openly saying, like Barnaby Joyce and others that they
20:11
Speaker 15: want the coalition back together. Well, there's a part of
20:14
Speaker 15: me that thinks that in some way undermines the decision
20:18
Speaker 15: of David Little Proud. That's going to be a really
20:19
Speaker 15: interesting part of this as well.
20:20
Speaker 8: I think.
20:23
Speaker 2: Yeah. And what you're referring to there in the Australian
20:25
Speaker 2: as a rumor that's been running around Canberra that elements
20:29
Speaker 2: around Susan Lee was not Susan Lee, but elements around
20:31
Speaker 2: Susan Lee and the Liberals. We're trying to engineer some
20:34
Speaker 2: sort of National Party spill against David Little Proud to
20:39
Speaker 2: force them back into the coalition without getting these four
20:42
Speaker 2: demands redressed. Now, when I spoke to National Party people
20:46
Speaker 2: just before I went onto air, that's not accurate. And
20:49
Speaker 2: certainly those that were sounded out, if I can say that,
20:53
Speaker 2: said they are not for turning. That the National Party
20:55
Speaker 2: is rock solid and wanting these four elements on the
20:58
Speaker 2: table and any coalition agree. Let's go back to yesterday's
21:02
Speaker 2: speech by Paul ericson This is Labour's campaign boss at
21:05
Speaker 2: the Press Club. He had some comments to say about
21:08
Speaker 2: Medi's scare. But I think the really important about I
21:11
Speaker 2: guess the integrity of how we run elections in this country.
21:15
Speaker 2: Have a listen.
21:17
Speaker 16: He went to the election refusing to say what they
21:19
Speaker 16: would cut and on form. We're completely comfortable with the
21:25
Speaker 16: assertions that we made that the risk that he posed
21:29
Speaker 16: to Medicare and the Australian's access to healthcare was too great.
21:37
Speaker 2: I'm not going to relitigate the policy differences, but suffice
21:40
Speaker 2: to say, Caroly Peter Dutton backed in every bit of
21:43
Speaker 2: labor expenditure on Medicare. Medicare was never at threat. But
21:48
Speaker 2: we clearly have a campaign boss who's quite proud of
21:52
Speaker 2: a win based on lies and character smears.
21:56
Speaker 13: Definitely Peter, and he's also said he's not you know,
21:58
Speaker 13: he won't rule out doing it and again for the
22:00
Speaker 13: next election. I do have to say I do think
22:03
Speaker 13: that Dutton and the Liberals they allowed labor to run
22:06
Speaker 13: the narrative instead of taking control. How many times did
22:08
Speaker 13: you say on this program that you know, the whole
22:11
Speaker 13: nuclear debate when it was six hundred billion of reckoning
22:15
Speaker 13: was only about one hundred and eighteen billion. Duttin wasn't
22:18
Speaker 13: firm enough at correcting that and you've got to go
22:19
Speaker 13: over and over to be able to do it. But
22:21
Speaker 13: it's a shame because it actually shows what Labour stands for.
22:24
Speaker 13: They're quite happy to make up the truth as they
22:26
Speaker 13: as they see fit, and if it doesn't fit their narrative.
22:28
Speaker 2: They'll just make it up.
22:29
Speaker 13: It just shows that the Liberals, the Nationals, you've got
22:32
Speaker 13: to go back harder and fight for actually what you
22:35
Speaker 13: believe in to get your message through to the Australian voters.
22:38
Speaker 2: Just on a related story, because I still remember the
22:40
Speaker 2: time of the Pink Bats saga in the Riding Guillard era.
22:45
Speaker 2: This was reminiscent of that horror show. We had three
22:49
Speaker 2: young men lose their lives at the time, James. But
22:52
Speaker 2: your story today in the Daily Telegraph, this is about
22:54
Speaker 2: hot water systems. What can you tell.
22:57
Speaker 15: Us well, In a bid to encourage people to switch
23:03
Speaker 15: off electric and gas hot water systems, the government gave
23:06
Speaker 15: rebates to switch to heat pumps. There was a federal rebate.
23:10
Speaker 15: There were also multiple state rebates depending on which state
23:13
Speaker 15: you're in. There was a particularly lucrative rebate in both
23:17
Speaker 15: New South Wales and Victoria, which allowed the system to
23:20
Speaker 15: be installed in someone's home, a brand new system sold
23:24
Speaker 15: and installed for free now once again. And the comparison
23:28
Speaker 15: to pink bats is that this is a good idea
23:31
Speaker 15: and these systems do help save power. But there is
23:34
Speaker 15: an Australian made industry that is led by Reem and
23:37
Speaker 15: Ducks and also Renni, which could have done this job
23:40
Speaker 15: and actually assisted the market and received these rebates. Instead,
23:45
Speaker 15: the government allowed ninety percent of these products to come
23:49
Speaker 15: from overseas, many of them from China. That undercut the
23:53
Speaker 15: Australian made manufacturing, one of the last pillars of manufacturing
23:56
Speaker 15: in this country. And we now have systems that were
24:00
Speaker 15: installed by people where there's no receipts, there's no phone number,
24:04
Speaker 15: there's no invoice, and this is just going to keep
24:06
Speaker 15: trickling away. It might not be just yet, but in
24:09
Speaker 15: New South Wales and Victoria they've had to scale back
24:11
Speaker 15: these rebates because they were too cheap and it created
24:14
Speaker 15: very similar behavior to what we saw with pink bats,
24:17
Speaker 15: and so it's a real issue.
24:18
Speaker 14: By the way, in New South Wales.
24:20
Speaker 15: The man behind a little bit of this was Matt Kean,
24:23
Speaker 15: so just keep that in mind.
24:27
Speaker 2: You surprised me, mate, You surprise me I'll leave it there,
24:30
Speaker 2: thank you both. All right, let's return now to the
24:34
Speaker 2: breakdown in the coalition. It's been a nightmare couple of
24:37
Speaker 2: days for the center right parties, but the now might
24:39
Speaker 2: be a bit of hope with the news this afternoon
24:41
Speaker 2: that the split is on pause and that talks will
24:44
Speaker 2: resume between the two party leaders. One of those leaders
24:48
Speaker 2: joins me now, our National's leader, David Little Proud, welcome,
24:51
Speaker 2: so help us out here, because I think my audience
24:54
Speaker 2: and coalition supporters around the country have watched this unfold.
24:58
Speaker 2: What changed today to put the split on hold?
25:03
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I got a text out of blue early
25:06
Speaker 3: this morning from Susan to come around to her office
25:09
Speaker 3: and have a conversation, and I went and had a
25:12
Speaker 3: conversation with her, and she made it clear that she
25:14
Speaker 3: would pause announcing a shadow cabinet from the Liberal Party.
25:19
Speaker 3: And I actually was in a meeting with those that
25:21
Speaker 3: I was proposing to make spokesperson in our part with
25:25
Speaker 3: the National Party, and she presented to me the fact
25:28
Speaker 3: that she'd paused that. But what she would do is
25:30
Speaker 3: call a party room meeting of the Liberal Party to
25:34
Speaker 3: discuss those four policy areas that she couldn't give us
25:38
Speaker 3: a guarantee on before Tuesday, when we unfortunately had to
25:42
Speaker 3: get to the juncture that we couldn't stay in the coalition. Now,
25:47
Speaker 3: we had to get to that because by convention, normally
25:49
Speaker 3: after every election, policies remain on the table until they're
25:53
Speaker 3: excluded by exception. What Susan Lee made a decision to
25:57
Speaker 3: change that around. And while I accepted that, just what
26:00
Speaker 3: asked for those four to remain, to give us certainty
26:03
Speaker 3: around them because they are important to our party room,
26:06
Speaker 3: Susan couldn't give us that guarantee, and so our room
26:08
Speaker 3: got to the position that we couldn't stay in the
26:11
Speaker 3: coalition because it was going to take many, many months
26:13
Speaker 3: for them to determine, and there was no guarantee.
26:15
Speaker 1: At the end of it that those policies would remain.
26:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, what struck me as bizarre from day one really
26:20
Speaker 2: was the haste here. I know that she'd set thursdays
26:23
Speaker 2: to day to announce a shadow ministry, but the Parliament
26:26
Speaker 2: doesn't come back until late July. I mean that's eight
26:29
Speaker 2: weeks away. I couldn't see why you wouldn't have both
26:33
Speaker 2: parties put more time into the negotiation, even if it
26:36
Speaker 2: took you one week or four weeks. I don't think
26:38
Speaker 2: it particularly matters. I mean the point is to get.
26:40
Speaker 3: It right, and we were comfortable in that, and in fact,
26:46
Speaker 3: to give you a timeline. Susan rang me on the
26:49
Speaker 3: Wednesday after she was elected on the Tuesday, met with
26:52
Speaker 3: her Thursday morning, and she gave me what she believed
26:57
Speaker 3: she could accept, and that was around those policy areas
27:01
Speaker 3: not being adopted. I took it to my party room
27:04
Speaker 3: on a Friday, made it clear, and that my party
27:08
Speaker 3: room gave me a clear direction that was not acceptable
27:10
Speaker 3: and that if we couldn't get agreement, that we may
27:14
Speaker 3: have to walk away. I gave that Deciason sadly, on
27:17
Speaker 3: the sad day her mother died. We stayed away, and
27:21
Speaker 3: in fact we made it clear and my office reached out.
27:25
Speaker 3: I personally reached out to Season to give cynthy, but
27:27
Speaker 3: my office reached out to hers to say, look, we
27:29
Speaker 3: can put everything on pause. I think it was on
27:31
Speaker 3: the Sunday we got a message back. Now we want
27:34
Speaker 3: to continue on because we want to announce the shadow
27:36
Speaker 3: Cabinet at some point, so we want to start these
27:39
Speaker 3: negotiations again as soon as possible. And so we asked
27:43
Speaker 3: for clarification around that comfort, around those four areas, and
27:48
Speaker 3: I made it clear that I'd take it to a
27:50
Speaker 3: party room meeting for my members of decide I don't
27:53
Speaker 3: determine it unilaterally, and made it very.
27:55
Speaker 1: Clear that this is serious, but if those were.
27:58
Speaker 3: The timelines, I would have to have party room determine it,
28:01
Speaker 3: and we did on a Tuesday, predicated on the timelines
28:04
Speaker 3: that we're given to us.
28:06
Speaker 8: Yeah.
28:06
Speaker 2: Interestingly, you know there was a debate for a couple
28:09
Speaker 2: of days about you wanting basically licensed not to bide
28:15
Speaker 2: by cabinet solidarity. What do you say to that?
28:20
Speaker 3: No, that was about was as you've been in many
28:23
Speaker 3: of these discussions. There's a wide range of ass from
28:26
Speaker 3: both sides and sad.
28:28
Speaker 1: That these have been leaked.
28:30
Speaker 3: I mean, it's disappointing because normally these are done.
28:32
Speaker 1: In good faith. This was around the fact that what
28:35
Speaker 1: I wanted to do was make.
28:36
Speaker 3: Sure there was a process, particularly in things of issue to.
28:41
Speaker 1: One party or another, where we found in the voice.
28:44
Speaker 3: And I felt I'd let Peter down by the fact
28:47
Speaker 3: that our party room got to no decision on the
28:50
Speaker 3: Voice before he had, and I think it damaged our
28:53
Speaker 3: relationship for a litt while we rebuilt, and I didn't
28:55
Speaker 3: want to do that, so I asked, was there a
28:58
Speaker 3: way that we could consider any model that we could
29:02
Speaker 3: get comfort around so that that sort of process could
29:05
Speaker 3: be accepted.
29:06
Speaker 1: Susan gave me back.
29:07
Speaker 3: I said, of words that I felt comfortable with and accepted,
29:12
Speaker 3: and it wasn't an issue for the party room to
29:13
Speaker 3: discuss because the only issue that on the Friday that
29:16
Speaker 3: were issues for our party room were those four policy areas,
29:19
Speaker 3: and that was all that was taken to the party room.
29:21
Speaker 3: And I expressed Susan gave me in terms of guarantee
29:25
Speaker 3: to the party room and they made a determination on
29:27
Speaker 3: that on Tuesday.
29:29
Speaker 2: So let me be really clear, going back to my
29:32
Speaker 2: past history where the Nats had a license on the
29:34
Speaker 2: issue of a single desk on wheat, for example, where
29:37
Speaker 2: they stood aside from the shadow cabinet solidarity on that point,
29:41
Speaker 2: the Nats were very much their own party. The Liberals
29:43
Speaker 2: had a different position. It didn't break the coalition at all.
29:47
Speaker 2: Is that the sort of thing you were looking for
29:50
Speaker 2: a reasonable response if something comes up in an ad
29:53
Speaker 2: hoc way, You were not asking as some allege for
29:57
Speaker 2: carte blanche right across the board to hold to shadow
30:01
Speaker 2: cabinet solidarity.
30:04
Speaker 3: That's exactly right, and whether there was a process that
30:07
Speaker 3: we could come together on. Susan made it clear that
30:10
Speaker 3: she wasn't prepared to do that, but I accepted it.
30:13
Speaker 1: I mean, it wasn't a die in the ditch moment
30:15
Speaker 1: for me.
30:16
Speaker 3: I'm a coalitionist and I've worked in a couple now,
30:19
Speaker 3: and I was prepared to accept that because the main
30:22
Speaker 3: issue I wanted my party room to focus on, and
30:25
Speaker 3: my party room didn't even know that I'd.
30:26
Speaker 1: Asked for that as consideration.
30:28
Speaker 3: As you know, it's just so disappointing that this is
30:30
Speaker 3: out in the media because these were confidential negotiations that
30:33
Speaker 3: I thought we could try and alleviate the voice situation
30:36
Speaker 3: I had with Peter between ourselves so that we kept
30:38
Speaker 3: our leadership relationship on track. It wasn't an issue for
30:42
Speaker 3: the party room, so it wasn't taken to the party room.
30:44
Speaker 3: The only thing that was taken to the party room amiable.
30:46
Speaker 3: Those four policy areas that were told to me on
30:49
Speaker 3: the Friday were the issues that needed to be rectified,
30:52
Speaker 3: Otherwise there were serious consequences for the coalition.
30:57
Speaker 2: Well. Clearly, the most controversial I guess with moderate Liberals
31:01
Speaker 2: will be in nuclear power. The other three pertained to
31:06
Speaker 2: I think long standing regional related issues, but nuclear power.
31:10
Speaker 2: Are you locked into the policy as it was that
31:13
Speaker 2: you took to the election or are you open to
31:15
Speaker 2: varying as some level of support for nuclear power? If
31:18
Speaker 2: not exactly what was there a couple of weeks ago
31:22
Speaker 2: in the electro.
31:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've been very clear even straight after the election.
31:26
Speaker 3: We're very pragmatic, even on Sky a number of occasions
31:28
Speaker 3: and other interviews I've done that we will be pragmatic.
31:31
Speaker 3: We lost the election because of the six hundred billion
31:33
Speaker 3: dollar lie that anthe ALB and Easy was able to
31:35
Speaker 3: perpetrate and we weren't able to stop and that's our fault.
31:39
Speaker 3: The NATS and then Libs have to reflect on that
31:42
Speaker 3: and understand we were outdone on that.
31:44
Speaker 1: But we are pragmatic.
31:46
Speaker 3: We want a technology agnostic approach, but we can't go
31:48
Speaker 3: down and all renewables approach. That is what's destroying region Australia.
31:52
Speaker 3: So where technology agnostic and so long as that conversation
31:55
Speaker 3: and the moratorium or whatever, we are pragmatic and very
31:59
Speaker 3: open to work with the Liberal Party on that. As
32:02
Speaker 3: I did with Pete previously, and I think we got
32:04
Speaker 3: to a good outcome, and it's something the nation is
32:06
Speaker 3: going to have to face up to because the fundamentals
32:08
Speaker 3: haven't changed. It's going to catch up with Anthony Albanieze
32:10
Speaker 3: at some point in the coming couple of years.
32:12
Speaker 2: Jason Polinsky said today that there's never been policy inside
32:17
Speaker 2: a coalition agreement. I don't know how many he's seen.
32:19
Speaker 2: I've seen three. There's always been policy inside these coalition agreements.
32:26
Speaker 2: Was that a surprise to you, I mean, it's not
32:29
Speaker 2: unusual that there's some sort of policy parameter in these agreements.
32:33
Speaker 1: Is it exactly? Well, I've seen them as well.
32:36
Speaker 3: But look, i'll let others commentate from the side, as
32:40
Speaker 3: you've been inside it, and I know from your processes
32:43
Speaker 3: you've respected those processes.
32:44
Speaker 1: And the confidential out of them. I'm doing the same.
32:47
Speaker 3: But I have seen them before, and I think it's
32:49
Speaker 3: important that we do have that because you have clarity.
32:51
Speaker 3: That way, you make sure the relationship is set and
32:53
Speaker 3: it's on sound foundations. And that's what we wanted to
32:57
Speaker 3: achieve from the start, was set a timeline. I had
33:01
Speaker 3: to respect it, but our party room couldn't get comfort
33:04
Speaker 3: with it. These are important topics to us.
33:07
Speaker 2: David Little Prattle, leave it there and good luck for
33:09
Speaker 2: the days let's hope not weeks ahead in this negotiation.
33:14
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me.
33:17
Speaker 2: Interesting, isn't it? A bit more truth there? In that interview?
33:20
Speaker 2: After the break we'll get the Liberal take on what's
33:22
Speaker 2: been a big day in Canberra and where to now
33:25
Speaker 2: Deputy Liberal leader Ted O'Brien. They're just breaking up from
33:28
Speaker 2: a shadow party room meeting. And also what's his position
33:32
Speaker 2: and given he was the architect of the nuclear policy,
33:34
Speaker 2: what's his view now? Welcome back the staus in the
33:42
Speaker 2: White House between the US president and another world leader,
33:46
Speaker 2: only this time I think I am with Donald Trump.
33:49
Speaker 2: But first, what a week it's been, the political fallout
33:52
Speaker 2: from the election leading to the breakup and now the
33:54
Speaker 2: possible makeup of the coalition. Ted O'Brian is the deputy
33:58
Speaker 2: leader of the Liberal Party and joins me. Now, Ted,
34:01
Speaker 2: I really appreciate your time. I know you've got a
34:03
Speaker 2: lot on your plate. You've come from this party room meeting.
34:06
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if it's still going on. You'll tell
34:08
Speaker 2: me it started at five o'clock. What do we know?
34:15
Speaker 8: Peter?
34:16
Speaker 17: Well, thank you very much for having me on. It
34:18
Speaker 17: has been a difficult time, but I think as a
34:20
Speaker 17: coalition we're in a better place tonight than we were
34:23
Speaker 17: last night, and that's a good place to start. We
34:26
Speaker 17: did just have a party room meeting of the Liberal Party,
34:30
Speaker 17: which Susan Lee led, and that was really just an
34:34
Speaker 17: opportunity for Susan two bring all colleagues up to speed
34:39
Speaker 17: with the status of negotiations with the National Party, and
34:43
Speaker 17: also to allow them an opportunity to provide some feedback.
34:48
Speaker 17: So it was really just an update and an exchange
34:52
Speaker 17: of views from colleagues. And I think more broadly, we
34:58
Speaker 17: are in a better place today we were yesterday, and
35:01
Speaker 17: I believe that everybody's excited about that because we are coalitionists.
35:07
Speaker 17: The Liberal Party needs the National Party, the National Party
35:10
Speaker 17: needs a Liberal Party.
35:12
Speaker 1: And the more we can.
35:13
Speaker 17: Recognize that we are a complementary, non competitive coalition of
35:19
Speaker 17: two parties, the better that we can do our job,
35:22
Speaker 17: which is really to fight for Australia's future.
35:27
Speaker 7: Yeah.
35:28
Speaker 2: And of course, you know, if you want good government,
35:29
Speaker 2: you've got to have a strong opposition, and you are
35:31
Speaker 2: not a strong opposition if you are not united in
35:34
Speaker 2: a coalition. So I think there's a lot of head
35:36
Speaker 2: nodding going on around the country listening to you give
35:39
Speaker 2: us that update right now. We heard from the Prime
35:42
Speaker 2: Minister today he's not bringing the parliament back until the
35:44
Speaker 2: twenty second of July. You've got eight weeks now to
35:47
Speaker 2: sort this out. Have you got any sort of sense
35:50
Speaker 2: of the timing now on this negotiation?
35:57
Speaker 17: Well, I think everybody is interested in suring that it's
36:01
Speaker 17: done right and there aren't any unnecessary delays. The sooner
36:07
Speaker 17: we have the coalition agreement locked in and we can
36:10
Speaker 17: stand people up in certain portfolios from both the Liberal
36:15
Speaker 17: Party the National Party, the better because then we can
36:18
Speaker 17: get on with the job at hand, which first and
36:20
Speaker 17: foremost is to hold the urb and Easy government to
36:22
Speaker 17: account and secondly is to start developing policies together. So
36:27
Speaker 17: the sooner the better, Peter, But I can't be clear
36:29
Speaker 17: with a specific timeline. I know that certainly Susan Lee
36:34
Speaker 17: isn't wasting any time, which is why there was a
36:36
Speaker 17: very quick briefing for us all this afternoon following her
36:40
Speaker 17: and David Little Proud's productive discussions today.
36:45
Speaker 2: Are you going to be part of these negotiations.
36:50
Speaker 17: Well, certainly, I've been working very closely with Susan as
36:53
Speaker 17: well as Michaelia and as part of the leadership group
36:57
Speaker 17: of the Liberal Party. But these goniations are very much
37:01
Speaker 17: between just Susan and David as our leaders as is
37:05
Speaker 17: the usual way.
37:09
Speaker 2: What I found, I guess a real departure and I'm
37:13
Speaker 2: not the only one. I've spoken to a lot of
37:15
Speaker 2: former ministers, of former prime ministers and others including current
37:18
Speaker 2: MPs too. It's always been the Liberal way. It's a
37:21
Speaker 2: forty year precedent that everything stays on the table in
37:24
Speaker 2: terms of policy until such time as it is changed
37:27
Speaker 2: and you get back you're just to opposition. You still
37:30
Speaker 2: run a parallel review process, but everything is there so
37:34
Speaker 2: you can deal with what's before you in the Parliament, etc.
37:37
Speaker 2: And I agree with Susan. If there were Radical captains
37:40
Speaker 2: calls made by Peter Dutton that didn't have buy in
37:42
Speaker 2: from the party room, we'll revisit those. But this idea
37:46
Speaker 2: that you can throw everything up in the air for
37:47
Speaker 2: the next six months and not have a policy on
37:50
Speaker 2: this and a policy in that when you've got to
37:52
Speaker 2: front the Parliament pretty soon, it's just not workable. Is
37:56
Speaker 2: that going to now be returned the way it was,
37:59
Speaker 2: or is she still going to persist with this idea
38:02
Speaker 2: that there is no policy until it is restated.
38:08
Speaker 17: Peter, I haven't heard the six month time horizon before,
38:15
Speaker 17: so I don't think there's any sort of time horizon
38:17
Speaker 17: on that. And again Susan's view is the sooner that
38:21
Speaker 17: we can lock in a coalition agreement and get going
38:23
Speaker 17: with the National Party on policy in addition to holding
38:27
Speaker 17: the government to account, the better. Certainly her view has
38:30
Speaker 17: been and I think she's been right with this, is
38:33
Speaker 17: that none of the policies are being thrown out. None
38:37
Speaker 17: of the policies that we brought to the last election
38:40
Speaker 17: are being thrown out. But none of them are being
38:43
Speaker 17: locked in definitively either. And so we have to face
38:48
Speaker 17: the reality that unfortunately we got smashed in the election
38:53
Speaker 17: before last, and then we got smashed again in the
38:57
Speaker 17: election just gone by. And it brings me no joy
39:00
Speaker 17: to say that we are pretty much at the lowest
39:03
Speaker 17: ebb as a party since we formed and went to
39:08
Speaker 17: the people as a united force. If you look at it,
39:11
Speaker 17: the proportion of seats held by the Liberal Party. So
39:14
Speaker 17: we've got a lot of work to do, and that
39:16
Speaker 17: means that we have to ensure that we're engaging with
39:19
Speaker 17: the Australian public and we are saying to them we
39:22
Speaker 17: want to hear your views about our policies. And so
39:25
Speaker 17: that's the approach that Susan's taken. I think it's the
39:28
Speaker 17: right one, but it's not one that we want to
39:31
Speaker 17: see sort of dragged on forever at all. But it's
39:33
Speaker 17: a very genuine attempt to say to the Australian public,
39:37
Speaker 17: we know you sent us a message on the third
39:38
Speaker 17: of May. We've got to get to the bottom of
39:40
Speaker 17: that and we want to do that in a very
39:43
Speaker 17: open fashion. And the sooner we can do that as
39:45
Speaker 17: a united force with the NATS, the better.
39:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm going to push the point though it is
39:51
Speaker 2: a departure from what you have done for the last
39:53
Speaker 2: forty years. That's the issue I think ted that people
39:56
Speaker 2: have picked up on. It's not that you don't review
39:59
Speaker 2: your policies every every coalition opposition does and must, but
40:03
Speaker 2: you kept something there as a residual framework as you
40:07
Speaker 2: go apart about the work of you know, as you
40:09
Speaker 2: have doing the media, fronting the Chamber, dealing with legislation.
40:15
Speaker 2: That's probably where I think this thing went off. The
40:17
Speaker 2: rails as quickly as it did.
40:21
Speaker 8: Well.
40:21
Speaker 17: But I suppose I'd say that the extent to which
40:24
Speaker 17: there are any differences from how it's done in the
40:27
Speaker 17: past is we're in very different circumstances now. And I
40:32
Speaker 17: say that with an enormous dose of humility. We have
40:36
Speaker 17: been sent a pretty powerful message over the last two
40:39
Speaker 17: elections from the Australian public and that puts us in
40:43
Speaker 17: a position where we have to ensure that we are
40:48
Speaker 17: rock solid with our values. No one's messing with that,
40:53
Speaker 17: what we believe in, who we fight for, all of
40:55
Speaker 17: that has to be the building block. But when it
40:58
Speaker 17: comes to policy, we're not throwing a thing out in
41:00
Speaker 17: a rush, but nor are we just locking everything else
41:03
Speaker 17: in in a rush. That's our approach, and I do
41:07
Speaker 17: believe it is the right approach, different or otherwise from
41:10
Speaker 17: the past.
41:11
Speaker 2: Just quickly, just quickly. You know you are a personal proponent.
41:15
Speaker 2: I know for nuclear you and I have had some
41:17
Speaker 2: really thoughtful discussions. I've been incredibly impressed about the sort
41:20
Speaker 2: of the intellectual grunt behind your analysis work. Do you
41:24
Speaker 2: want to I'm not asking you to preemp but do
41:27
Speaker 2: you want nuclear in some form to stay on the table.
41:33
Speaker 17: Peter, thanks for giving me a little bit of an
41:35
Speaker 17: out there, because of course we're yet to have all
41:38
Speaker 17: those discussions as a party room. But I can say
41:41
Speaker 17: that my view on nuclear energy moreover has not changed.
41:46
Speaker 17: It has not changed, and international evidence remains the same,
41:51
Speaker 17: and so there's been no change in.
41:53
Speaker 2: My view there.
41:55
Speaker 17: But I also have to be pretty honest and say
41:58
Speaker 17: that the Labor Party weaponized this six hundred billion dollar
42:02
Speaker 17: lie against nuclear effectively, and so the policy needs to
42:08
Speaker 17: be reviewed. But my personal views on nuclear energy have
42:12
Speaker 17: not changed one iota.
42:15
Speaker 2: Well, all credit to you, Ted for not dodging that question.
42:17
Speaker 2: I think that is the sort of honest appraisal that
42:20
Speaker 2: your supporters want to hear as you go through the
42:23
Speaker 2: difficulty of the next few months and indeed years. Thank
42:26
Speaker 2: you for your time. All right after the break, the
42:28
Speaker 2: voices grow louder and louder against Labour's unrealized capital gains tax.
42:34
Speaker 2: They're being urged now to ram it through the Parliament
42:36
Speaker 2: before too many of you work out exactly what it is.
42:41
Speaker 2: Plus that anti Semitic escalation in the US two dead,
42:44
Speaker 2: the government shouting free Palestine, and that fight in the
42:48
Speaker 2: Oval Office welcome back. It was the issue of the
42:56
Speaker 2: murder of white farmers in South Africa that really blew
42:58
Speaker 2: up the White House. We'll get to that in a moment,
43:01
Speaker 2: but let's go to Labour's unrealized gains a supertax legislation
43:06
Speaker 2: they want to push through the Parliament. It's getting more
43:08
Speaker 2: and more negative headlines as the days go on, and
43:11
Speaker 2: rightly so, because it goes against every principle of Australia's
43:14
Speaker 2: tax system. Today at even United former head of the
43:18
Speaker 2: Reserve Bank feel Low and the former Treasury Secretary Ken
43:22
Speaker 2: Henry both declaring and a terrible idea joining me now
43:25
Speaker 2: to discuss at former Treasury Assistant Secretary David Pearl. David,
43:29
Speaker 2: thank you. I want to get back to basics. I've
43:32
Speaker 2: spoken to my audience many times about how it works,
43:36
Speaker 2: but let's go a step further. Explain why this is
43:38
Speaker 2: such a radical proposal, a radical departure from all the
43:43
Speaker 2: other ways we tax.
43:46
Speaker 14: Thanks for having me on, Peter.
43:47
Speaker 18: It's a radical departure for our income tax system, for
43:50
Speaker 18: our capital gains tax system. So normally the way that
43:54
Speaker 18: works is that you pay tax only when you sell
43:59
Speaker 18: the ass whether it's a home, whether it's investment property,
44:03
Speaker 18: whether it's shares, and you have the cash to remit
44:06
Speaker 18: to the ATO. The radical departure represented by this tax
44:10
Speaker 18: is that your tax liability arises from changes in the
44:15
Speaker 18: paper value of your asset as assessed by the ATO,
44:20
Speaker 18: and so you're stumped up to pay that tax without
44:23
Speaker 18: having any liquidity from the sale of that asset. And
44:27
Speaker 18: as people who are going to be hit by this
44:30
Speaker 18: have explained, if your asset is an I liquid one,
44:34
Speaker 18: you can't sell ten or fifteen percent of your house,
44:36
Speaker 18: you can't sell ten or fifteen percent of your farm.
44:39
Speaker 18: Then you may have to borrow or sell other assets
44:41
Speaker 18: to pay it. So it is a radical departure. Now,
44:44
Speaker 18: we do have an unrealized regime in land tax, which
44:49
Speaker 18: is levied by the states, but that cuts in at
44:51
Speaker 18: a very high level and is typically one or two percent.
44:55
Speaker 18: And land values, as you would know Peter, don't radically rise,
44:59
Speaker 18: and they tend to flatline or grow modestly.
45:02
Speaker 14: So this is a radical departure.
45:04
Speaker 18: And I was sitting at my desk in Treasury when
45:07
Speaker 18: this was announced, and I've worked in Treasury's tax area
45:10
Speaker 18: for part of my career, and I must confess I
45:13
Speaker 18: thought this was an embarrassing mistake on part of my colleagues.
45:17
Speaker 14: This ever saw the light of day.
45:19
Speaker 18: I can't believe that Jim Chalmers bought this, and I
45:23
Speaker 18: can't believe the Treasury didn't shoot it down because we
45:25
Speaker 18: would have shot it down in the past.
45:28
Speaker 14: And you don't have to believe me. Listen to Ken Henry.
45:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, I saw Ken enemy today. I saw feel Low today.
45:35
Speaker 2: We've seen obviously all the industry super funds, all three
45:38
Speaker 2: or four of them out this week, saying it's crazy.
45:40
Speaker 2: Now when you get that sort of coalition come together
45:43
Speaker 2: united in opposition to something, I think that's telling it itself.
45:46
Speaker 2: But you've got Gary we even on the other side.
45:48
Speaker 2: I mean, he's someone who's long been a sort of
45:51
Speaker 2: superannuation expert. He says, just quick legislate it, basically, legislate
45:56
Speaker 2: it before people wake up and realize what this is
45:59
Speaker 2: all about.
46:02
Speaker 14: But it's pretty cynical from him.
46:03
Speaker 18: I mean, he's made a lot of money skimming a
46:06
Speaker 18: percentage from billions and superannuation that's effectively trapped. So I
46:10
Speaker 18: don't know if I'd attach much importance to that. But
46:13
Speaker 18: Jim Chalmers, this could be the beginning of the end
46:16
Speaker 18: for him. Frankly, I know that sounds like a big claim,
46:18
Speaker 18: but his mentor, Wayne Swan, was ruined by a mining
46:24
Speaker 18: tax he didn't understand and couldn't argue for. And I
46:28
Speaker 18: cannot believe that Jim Chalmers, who was Wayne Swan's press advisor,
46:33
Speaker 18: who's very good at his lines, but in my experience,
46:36
Speaker 18: doesn't focus on the detail. For him to blandly say
46:40
Speaker 18: that this is not a major change defies belief.
46:43
Speaker 14: Nobody would argue with.
46:45
Speaker 18: A variation in the rate paid by high balance superanuits
46:50
Speaker 18: on a realized basis, we could quibble about whether it
46:53
Speaker 18: was too high or too low, and I think that's
46:55
Speaker 18: the point Ken Henry's made. But this taxation of paper
46:59
Speaker 18: profits is a radical step for our income tax system,
47:02
Speaker 18: and I think it's going to snowball from here.
47:08
Speaker 2: We'll watch it closely, Thank you, David. Right a quick
47:11
Speaker 2: breakout of the break, we'll get to the US White House.
47:13
Speaker 2: So stashed today South African President, the death of white farmers.
47:17
Speaker 2: It's huge and a bit more.
47:24
Speaker 14: Welcome back.
47:25
Speaker 2: I haven't got a lot of time to get to
47:27
Speaker 2: get straight into it with my international panel. You know
47:28
Speaker 2: the well, Michael Dami and Kosher Gata Hey, I want
47:31
Speaker 2: to go to a whole lot of things, but let's
47:32
Speaker 2: start with the White House. These scenes, it's becoming a
47:35
Speaker 2: bit of a feature of the President's time in office.
47:39
Speaker 2: But I'm with Trump on this one, calling out the
47:41
Speaker 2: death of white farmers in South Africa.
47:44
Speaker 19: And the backdrop of this is they just granted the
47:46
Speaker 19: US has granted refugee datus to fifty nine of them yesterday,
47:49
Speaker 19: and there was a fury to beat in the Senate
47:50
Speaker 19: remarkab rub was defending that decision. They came to talk
47:53
Speaker 19: treat or so the President of South Africa thought. But
47:55
Speaker 19: Trump understands media very well. There is a disagreement on
47:59
Speaker 19: the facts where the South African leadership is denying that
48:02
Speaker 19: it's happening.
48:02
Speaker 2: And Trump, and I might add, a few years ago
48:04
Speaker 2: under Peter Dutt in Australia granted visas to the families
48:08
Speaker 2: of white rats.
48:08
Speaker 19: So there is plenty of evidence for it. And so
48:10
Speaker 19: he's trying to reframe that narrative and put him on
48:12
Speaker 19: the spot by showing him pretty horrific footage and getting
48:15
Speaker 19: the President to weigh in on it. And he was
48:17
Speaker 19: visibly uncomfortable.
48:18
Speaker 4: But that's Trump's but it does seem a bit like
48:20
Speaker 4: a reality show and he's.
48:21
Speaker 2: Doing its I know, I know some of these some
48:23
Speaker 2: of these issues are buried. You know that the killings
48:25
Speaker 2: of Christians, let's say, in the Middle East are buried
48:28
Speaker 2: or in Nigeria and Nigerian places like that. We've got
48:30
Speaker 2: to get that out in the public domain. How just
48:32
Speaker 2: quickly the horrific news we've heard out of Washington, DC.
48:36
Speaker 2: Those two I think they were young engaged couple from
48:39
Speaker 2: the Israeli embassy shot point blank's.
48:42
Speaker 4: Random people who came out of a reception because they
48:45
Speaker 4: were the first two out he shot the feat.
48:48
Speaker 2: I don't think they were targeted because the targeted because
48:51
Speaker 2: they were Jewish, but not because of the Yes, because.
48:53
Speaker 4: He was he was shouting free, free Palestine and said
48:56
Speaker 4: to the police that was because of Gaza. It's shocking.
48:59
Speaker 4: A lot of Jewish people feel all around the world
49:01
Speaker 4: sort of besieged, and this is an example of it
49:05
Speaker 4: will make them feel even worse. I know security in
49:07
Speaker 4: Australia and all around the world will be pumped up
49:10
Speaker 4: because of this incredibly. But if the BBC and our
49:14
Speaker 4: ABC don't report that Mohammed Sinowa, the head of Hamas,
49:18
Speaker 4: was killed in the airstrike on Gaza. You can still
49:22
Speaker 4: be against the Israeli military action in Gaza, but at
49:25
Speaker 4: least report the facts. You're creating a sterical atmosphere where
49:29
Speaker 4: you don't report all of the facts. So you know,
49:32
Speaker 4: Matt Dorian at the ABC, please, you know, be fair,
49:35
Speaker 4: report all of the issues just quickly.
49:37
Speaker 19: The Biden book, Wow, this is the biggest political scandal
49:41
Speaker 19: or should have.
49:42
Speaker 2: Just been whatever Skye is Australia to be across at all.
49:44
Speaker 19: So the wrong messenger, Jee Taper is getting a lot
49:47
Speaker 19: of criticism for him as a messenger. But the message
49:49
Speaker 19: of the book is quite interesting because there's even more
49:52
Speaker 19: detail of how that cover up took place, and it
49:53
Speaker 19: really is the biggest scandal in political history.
49:55
Speaker 4: Including Lady Macbeth Jill Biden pet hits up from this
50:02
Speaker 4: station and calling me that before he stepped down.
50:05
Speaker 2: I think a lot of men are going to pick
50:06
Speaker 2: up the phone and their doctors and get their prostate
50:08
Speaker 2: checked after all of this. But we'll see what happens
50:10
Speaker 2: with that one.
50:10
Speaker 14: It's automatic anyway, I hope you don't.
50:13
Speaker 2: It anyway, Thank you, ver about you have a good weekend.
50:15
Speaker 2: That's if they have a lovely weekend yourself. I'll see
50:17
Speaker 2: you Monday at six