Latest / Healing Her Story with Riva Jean-Paul / Living Beyond the Box: Creativity, Multiplicity & Self-Expression with Dr. Tavina Lynn

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Living Beyond the Box: Creativity, Multiplicity & Self-Expression with Dr. Tavina Lynn · Healing Her Story with Riva Jean-Paul

1:37
SPEAKER_02: Hello, dear listeners.
1:39
SPEAKER_02: Welcome to another episode of the Healing Her Story podcast.
1:43
SPEAKER_02: I am so excited to be here for another guest episode today.
1:48
SPEAKER_02: And today's guest episode is a really special one.
1:51
SPEAKER_02: Unlike some of the other guest episodes, I have a very personal connection with today's guest, and we've had the opportunity to discuss the topics that we're going to be exploring today a little bit more deeply.
2:03
SPEAKER_02: So I'm really excited to see how that adds to the richness of this discussion.
2:09
SPEAKER_02: I also really want to share a personal story about how I met this guest.
2:13
SPEAKER_02: I haven't had the chance to share one of these in a while because some of our guests I don't always have that personal connection to.
2:20
SPEAKER_02: But this person came to my life in such an interesting, synchronistic way as most people usually do when it comes to entering into my life.
2:30
SPEAKER_02: And I was working on the mural one day.
2:33
SPEAKER_02: I say the mural, like our listeners know.
2:35
SPEAKER_02: They may not know.
2:36
SPEAKER_02: By the way, I painted a mural last year with a bunch of kiddos.
2:39
SPEAKER_02: Really cool project.
2:40
SPEAKER_02: Maybe I'll talk about it another time.
2:43
SPEAKER_02: But I was working on the mural at Clara, which is the organization who I work for here in Sacramento.
2:48
SPEAKER_02: And I was speaking with my director and we're sort of wrapping up a conversation.
2:53
SPEAKER_02: And I could kind of feel that she like wanted to like end the conversation.
2:57
SPEAKER_02: And so I kind of followed that.
2:59
SPEAKER_02: But it wasn't ending because she wanted to end it.
3:01
SPEAKER_02: It was ending because she saw that someone was sort of like standing behind me, like waiting to talk to me.
3:07
SPEAKER_00: And as we were leaving, yeah, she was I was just standing there, like I didn't even wait.
3:15
SPEAKER_00: I didn't even consider how they might be like, Do you need help?
3:18
SPEAKER_00: I'm just standing there looking at y'all like and I'm thinking, I'm just waiting for y'all to end the conversation.
3:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, it was great.
3:24
SPEAKER_02: It was great.
3:25
SPEAKER_02: And Megan's like, I think someone wants to talk to you.
3:28
SPEAKER_02: I was like, okay.
3:30
SPEAKER_02: So I turn around to to see this amazing woman standing here, and I just instantly lit up.
3:38
SPEAKER_02: I cannot explain it.
3:39
SPEAKER_02: Like I've never had an experience like that where my whole body was just like buzzing with energy and excitement.
3:46
SPEAKER_02: And we shared a few words about the project and what I was doing.
3:49
SPEAKER_02: And we think we exchanged numbers all within like maybe like 10 minutes of meeting each other.
3:56
SPEAKER_02: So there was just just instant connection.
3:59
SPEAKER_02: And the more I've gotten to know Tavina, the more we've started to see all the different ways that we sort of like connect and have all these similarities and always have such rich discussions with her.
4:11
SPEAKER_02: So I'm super excited to be welcoming Tivina to the show today.
4:15
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I'm gonna read a little bit more about Tavina and then I'll turn it over to her.
4:19
SPEAKER_02: Today, as I was saying, I'm joined by Tavina, Dr.
4:22
SPEAKER_02: Tivina Lynn, a writer, a dancer, educator, scientist, and creative visionary whose work explores the rich intersections of science, art, storytelling, and human possibility.
4:36
SPEAKER_02: Tavina holds a PhD in chemistry and serves as a chemistry professor at Sacramento City College, where she is passionate about making science more accessible, relevant, and deeply human.
4:48
SPEAKER_02: With years of experience in academic and industrial research, teaching, mentoring, and STEM consulting, she brings both intellectual rigor and creative curiosity to everything she does.
4:59
SPEAKER_02: Beyond the laboratory and classroom, Tavina is also an author, a dancer, and creative writer whose work explores where science, art, mysticism, and imagination converge.
5:10
SPEAKER_02: Through her writing, she challenges conventional approaches to STEM, which is science, technology, what's the E?
5:17
SPEAKER_02: Engineering.
5:18
SPEAKER_02: Engineering and mathematics, thank you.
5:20
SPEAKER_02: STEM education and invites us to consider a more holistic understanding of ourselves, our communities, and our place within the universe.
5:28
SPEAKER_02: What I admire most about Tabina is her willingness to live beyond the boxes we so often create around ourselves.
5:35
SPEAKER_02: Rather than choosing between science and creativity, logic and intuition, structure and imagination, she embodies the possibility of being fully and unapologetically all of it.
5:47
SPEAKER_02: Today, in honor of Gemini season, we're exploring multiplicity, duality, creativity, and what becomes possible when we give ourselves permission to be more than one thing.
5:58
SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the show, Tavina.
6:00
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
6:01
SPEAKER_00: That's like an invocation you just read.
6:04
SPEAKER_00: So I'm just like being with it, like, wow, okay.
6:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
6:08
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for doing that.
6:09
SPEAKER_00: Like reading the bio.
6:10
SPEAKER_00: I really it's nice to hear your, like, as opposed to me having just given you the bio for you to hear, to for me to hear like what you came up with, right?
6:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
6:22
SPEAKER_00: And hearing the story of how we met.
6:24
SPEAKER_00: Like, even though I know how we've met and you've shared this with me before, like from your perspective, hearing it again, it's I don't know.
6:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's just funny.
6:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:32
SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm glad it's landing for you.
6:34
SPEAKER_02: I always like to start to show the start the show that way.
6:37
SPEAKER_02: And I think it's just a beautiful way to reflect back to the guests and also to like just really drop us into our hearts and yeah, just kind of set the stage for our conversation.
6:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
6:47
SPEAKER_02: Wonderful.
6:48
SPEAKER_02: Well, Tavina would love to hear a little bit more about your story and would love to hear about the different layers of your story that kind of brought you to where you are now.
7:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
7:00
SPEAKER_00: So even though it's funny, even though I knew this was the first question before, like I I intentionally didn't think about it because I was like, I'm gonna obsess over this answer.
7:11
SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm really gonna obsess over how did we get here?
7:16
SPEAKER_00: Or what are what is my story?
7:18
SPEAKER_00: There's what layers should we talk about?
7:20
SPEAKER_00: Um honestly, it's a question that I think it's an important question.
7:26
SPEAKER_00: I love this question because I love to know people's story, and it gives me so much anxiety when people ask it to me.
7:32
SPEAKER_00: I'm like big question.
7:34
SPEAKER_00: It's a big question.
7:36
SPEAKER_00: And then you're like, which story?
7:38
SPEAKER_00: And then it's like it's like just pick a story, and you're like, but is this the right story for this occasion?
7:44
SPEAKER_00: Is it gonna land with them?
7:46
SPEAKER_00: All of that.
7:47
SPEAKER_00: So I actually I when you were reading my bio, I'm gonna go.
7:52
SPEAKER_00: What came up was also we talk a lot about human design.
7:55
SPEAKER_00: We do, right?
7:56
SPEAKER_00: We really connected over that, and I I told you I have a special place in my heart for projectors.
8:02
SPEAKER_00: So I think like it's funny how even though we didn't know each other's name at it at that point at first, or even like our human design charts, I feel like so.
8:14
SPEAKER_00: I don't commonly go up to people and like at the end of our conversation, I was like, hey, can we exchange contact information?
8:23
SPEAKER_00: That felt, I don't know if it felt awkward, but it felt awkward for me because it's not something I had experienced myself doing often.
8:30
SPEAKER_00: But it's so natural for who I am, right?
8:34
SPEAKER_00: Like it makes sense naturally if I'm really being who I am energetically to go a place and to feel something like with the person and just go up to them and be like, hey, I you want to see if we could be friends?
8:47
SPEAKER_00: Like, kind of like what we do when we were kids, like, hey, you want to be my friend?
8:51
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, damn, why can't we do this as adults?
8:55
SPEAKER_00: And I've decided I'm just gonna do it.
8:57
SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna do it because it's really, it's really the truth of how I meet and connect with people when I do that.
9:08
SPEAKER_00: I find really meaningful connections and because and I'm I think it's because I'm showing up authentically from the start, versus we were in a school or in a certain place and we happen to meet each other, and then I have all this armor and stuff up, and then we take time to get to know each other, and then I take the armor down.
9:27
SPEAKER_00: It's like from the get-go, we met.
9:29
SPEAKER_00: I was I intentionally made a decision to like take off that armor and to just be vulnerable and really to be a kid.
9:38
SPEAKER_00: And it's it's so funny because that day I was on that, I was in that energy.
9:45
SPEAKER_00: I was just frolicking.
9:46
SPEAKER_00: Like I'm sure it was summertime.
9:48
SPEAKER_00: It was summer.
9:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so I this was my first summer also in Sacramento.
9:55
SPEAKER_00: So I was just like, okay, I think I went to a store, but I didn't have really anything in my schedule.
10:01
SPEAKER_00: So I just intuitively was like, let's just see where we're intuitively led.
10:06
SPEAKER_00: And then I came in, I saw Clara, and I was just really people know that you work at have you mentioned Clara before?
10:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I'm just making sure.
10:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, it's no secret.
10:18
SPEAKER_00: And it's clear.
10:22
SPEAKER_00: I was like, you're selling this girl's workplace.
10:24
SPEAKER_00: So anyway, I was fascinated when I saw the sign for it, and then when I went in, I was like, this is like it was just it, I I was so curious about the space.
10:35
SPEAKER_00: And then for you to be in real time painting a mural, it's like, what is this?
10:40
SPEAKER_00: So I was just, it was like little Tavina was really much just out leading that day and just with no boundaries, just following wherever her curiosity was leading her.
10:52
SPEAKER_00: And when I think about so this is this is truly who I am, but I am, I feel very new in this practice, if that makes sense.
11:03
SPEAKER_00: Like most of my life story, if we were to look at it sort of chronologically, it feels like, and this is not about like a a version of me that I dislike or a ver because I love this version of Tavina that was very strictured and like we don't have time for curiosity.
11:22
SPEAKER_00: We need to like get these grades.
11:24
SPEAKER_00: I mean, she's she's setting me up and hybridly right now, right?
11:28
SPEAKER_00: Gotta done.
11:30
SPEAKER_00: But so I say that to say I feel like as a kid, this was like how I experienced myself, my true nature, just very curious.
11:40
SPEAKER_00: My mom used to say to me, like, whenever I was like asking a lot of questions, she would be like, Stop being nosy.
11:47
SPEAKER_00: And I always would say, I'm not nosy, I'm curious.
11:51
SPEAKER_00: I randomly remember this, right, recently.
11:54
SPEAKER_00: And Curious George was one of my favorite childhood books.
12:00
SPEAKER_00: I love that book.
12:01
SPEAKER_00: So I was just curiosity was just buzzing through me, right?
12:07
SPEAKER_00: Always.
12:08
SPEAKER_00: And I can imagine for a parent that is fucking terrifying.
12:12
SPEAKER_00: Like for those of us in our curiosity, we're like, what do you mean?
12:16
SPEAKER_00: There's so much to be curious.
12:18
SPEAKER_00: Let me go and explore the curiosity.
12:20
SPEAKER_00: And they're like, okay, keep the curious nature, but the way in which you're following this curiosity, homie.
12:27
SPEAKER_00: You're like, what do and and rightfully so, right?
12:31
SPEAKER_00: This is why you have adults, and you know, and there has to be boundaries, etc.
12:36
SPEAKER_00: But that was how I my true nature was.
12:40
SPEAKER_00: But school, so so school was really big in my household.
12:45
SPEAKER_00: Like my mom homeschooled me when I was, I guess like the pre pre-K years.
12:51
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
12:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, I remember maybe one or two years being homeschooled before I went into kindergarten.
12:57
SPEAKER_00: And I loved school.
12:58
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was like a perfect, and she was a great, she was a great teacher, actually.
13:03
SPEAKER_00: Right.
13:04
SPEAKER_00: And so my introduction to education was with my curiosity leading.
13:11
SPEAKER_00: It was really fun, right?
13:13
SPEAKER_00: And she would do, she would do things like, so I had a I have an older brother and sister, they're five and six years older.
13:22
SPEAKER_00: So they would be in school, right?
13:24
SPEAKER_00: And I'm still at home.
13:26
SPEAKER_00: So she would take them to school.
13:27
SPEAKER_00: So I obviously was with her.
13:29
SPEAKER_00: She would pack them lunch.
13:30
SPEAKER_00: So she would pack me to lunch as well, even though I wasn't going to school.
13:34
SPEAKER_00: But I'm like, well, why can't I have a lunch?
13:36
SPEAKER_00: So I would literally have my lunchbox and backpack, getting in the car with her to drive them to school.
13:45
SPEAKER_00: I this gave me so much joy though, right?
13:48
SPEAKER_00: It was like this whole adventure for me.
13:50
SPEAKER_00: And then we came back home and then we went into office and I was homeschooled.
13:55
SPEAKER_00: And so I loved it, right?
13:57
SPEAKER_00: Then went into kindergarten.
13:58
SPEAKER_00: And so for the most part, I had a pretty good experience in school.
14:06
SPEAKER_00: And that's, you know, gen, I mean, generally I had good teachers.
14:10
SPEAKER_00: They weren't all perfect, but I didn't have I didn't have the experience.
14:16
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you can have the spectrum of experience, right?
14:18
SPEAKER_00: For the most part, I had a pretty good educational experience from the beginning.
14:21
SPEAKER_00: And my mom was very involved in shaping that, right?
14:25
SPEAKER_00: Like if I got in a class and she's like, nope, that teacher, she could sense that teacher doesn't care or they're not invested in education, you're gonna get into this other class, right?
14:34
SPEAKER_00: She was really, really um a huge advocate for make like she was active in my education.
14:40
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't just drop us off to school and then hands off.
14:44
SPEAKER_00: She's like, Who's the teachers?
14:45
SPEAKER_00: What's the principal?
14:47
SPEAKER_00: It's time to transfer out of this school because it was a good school and now it's going.
14:50
SPEAKER_00: I mean, she was really, really involved.
14:52
SPEAKER_00: And it's funny because honestly, I feel like I'm remembering this in real time.
14:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like I knew this, but I I had forgotten about this version of her.
15:01
SPEAKER_00: Um and so I loved education, and so education became my yeah, I had a pretty, like I mentioned, I had a pretty good a positive experience with education.
15:18
SPEAKER_00: And so when things in my family, in our household, became really dysfunctional, like when drug addiction, alcoholism, my parents divorced, all the like truths of what was actually happening just came off.
15:33
SPEAKER_00: I was a kid, right?
15:34
SPEAKER_00: I was probably seven when my parents divorced, and then from that point on, it was, it was just like this wild ride of like, you know, we'll see, we'll see where we end up.
15:48
SPEAKER_00: And it was a lot in there, and we, you know, a lot of beauty, a lot of all the things.
15:53
SPEAKER_00: But home was where it felt more like the wilderness and chaos, and school was where I found the structure and like the ground, right?
16:06
SPEAKER_00: And so I always, and so whereas curiosity was innate and what excited me about school, it then started to become like, okay, this is what I'm gonna build my foundation on, right?
16:20
SPEAKER_00: And and I'm a bit extreme.
16:22
SPEAKER_00: So I went all the way extreme, and it's like you can have both, but then it's like screw the curiosity, we just need to be structured, right?
16:28
SPEAKER_00: This is the story of my life, right?
16:30
SPEAKER_00: Of all of us, trying to find this balance.
16:32
SPEAKER_00: And so I did really well in school and I was very hard on myself about performing.
16:38
SPEAKER_00: Like I nobody externally was like, you, you gotta be.
16:42
SPEAKER_00: Like my mom always accepted whatever grades I gave because she knew as long as you try your best, you're good.
16:48
SPEAKER_00: If your best was a C, we're celebrating that C.
16:51
SPEAKER_00: Now, if you got a D and I know you could have got an A, we have a fucking problem.
16:55
SPEAKER_00: Right.
16:56
SPEAKER_00: And so I didn't really feel external pressure.
16:59
SPEAKER_00: The pressure really came from within.
17:01
SPEAKER_00: Like, you need to do well.
17:04
SPEAKER_00: We need this to work, we need this to work.
17:06
SPEAKER_00: And so that's I think that structure and that view is what allowed me to excel academically and to stay with it even when it became toxic.
17:23
SPEAKER_00: And I sometimes be like, did we have to do the PhD?
17:26
SPEAKER_00: I don't know that we had to.
17:27
SPEAKER_00: I think we could have.
17:28
SPEAKER_00: I think we had I think we could have done a different I don't, yeah, I don't know.
17:33
SPEAKER_00: But so yeah, so school was like my thing that I loved chemistry, I love I love science, math, and curiosity.
17:43
SPEAKER_00: I feel like that's really what scientists and what we're looking for, why we come to the space.
17:48
SPEAKER_00: Yes, and and arts, so the performing arts also was always there in parallel, and it just shifted.
18:02
SPEAKER_00: I think once I got into graduate school, it just demanded more of me.
18:08
SPEAKER_00: And so I didn't know how to do both.
18:13
SPEAKER_00: I didn't know how I I really went from being like in spaces where it's like, okay, you can you can do science, you can be dancing, you can do all these things, and then I got to a place where I felt like I can only study chemistry.
18:27
SPEAKER_00: And I don't know how I got there, and we can come up with a series of stories.
18:32
SPEAKER_00: I mean, the reality is that's where I came, and I was fucking miserable.
18:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:37
SPEAKER_00: Right.
18:37
SPEAKER_00: Cause it's like to be that one.
18:41
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't that I was miserable because chemistry sucked, it was that I was miserable, miserable because I felt like I could only do chemistry.
18:49
SPEAKER_00: And I neglected every other part of myself, every other interest.
18:53
SPEAKER_00: And we did that for a few years.
18:55
SPEAKER_00: And COVID was like my re-awakening.
19:00
SPEAKER_00: It was that reset back to remembering who I came here, knowing I was as a kid.
19:07
SPEAKER_00: And now I've been on this journey of integration, like remembering all the things that I am, which is a multitude of expressions and and not pressuring myself with choosing, just really following the current.
19:24
SPEAKER_00: If it's like you really want you're obsessed with painting and coloring books right now, painting coloring books right now, right?
19:30
SPEAKER_00: We're obsessed with dance, obsessed with dance, right?
19:33
SPEAKER_00: Why and it it's like you don't have to choose, and that's really what the journey is.
19:37
SPEAKER_00: But right now, it's really been like reclaiming these, these different parts, not even reclaiming, remembering and giving myself permission to just trust it and to have fun with it.
19:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
19:50
SPEAKER_02: Wow, beautiful.
19:51
SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for sharing.
19:52
SPEAKER_02: I don't know that we had talked much about like childhood before.
19:56
SPEAKER_02: So it's always, yeah, it's always fun for me.
19:58
SPEAKER_02: I like to know like kind of where things started.
20:01
SPEAKER_02: And it doesn't surprise me that you were naturally uh a very cur curious child.
20:06
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I love that that sort of younger version of yourself, that little Tavina is kind of what really sparked this connection.
20:14
SPEAKER_02: And I was feeling quite in that space too, I might say.
20:17
SPEAKER_02: So it was like two little ones, I think, really is what were the bridge of this this friendship, which I love.
20:24
SPEAKER_02: That's great.
20:25
SPEAKER_02: I mean, like you said, there's so beautiful about like, hey, do you want to be friends?
20:30
SPEAKER_02: Just so innocent, right?
20:32
SPEAKER_02: And that's yeah how some of the most beautiful connections can start to form when they are coming from that really authentic space.
20:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
20:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
20:40
SPEAKER_02: And I love what you shared about education too, and how it sounds like it really gave you a lot of stability and security, especially as like your home life became chaotic.
20:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:52
SPEAKER_02: And I also really hear you on like how that how grounding and how supportive that can be, and also how detrimental it can be if we kind of get swept away in it.
21:03
SPEAKER_02: And I can see my a lot of my own story and that experience as well.
21:07
SPEAKER_02: But I love where you're at now.
21:08
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I love it all, and it's it's really lovely to see you yeah, integrating these parts of yourself and giving yourself permission to to express them in whatever way they want to be expressed.
21:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, beautiful.
21:22
SPEAKER_02: It's it's interesting.
21:23
SPEAKER_02: You said that like you didn't feel that pressure to choose from externally.
21:29
SPEAKER_02: If if I'm correct, it was more of like an internal like voice within that kind of told you you needed to choose.
21:35
SPEAKER_02: Is that correct?
21:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I say that because like I can't in this moment, I can't recall like a person.
21:44
SPEAKER_00: You know, like I can't recall my mother reiterating you need to choose a certain career.
21:48
SPEAKER_00: It was always like, what do you want to do?
21:50
SPEAKER_00: You know, I could have said, I want to major in chemistry and dance, and it would have been like, oh, okay, that's what you're doing.
21:55
SPEAKER_00: But it was me that was like chemistry or dance, chemistry or dance, right?
22:02
SPEAKER_00: And I'm not, it's not lost on me that we live in a a world that preaches the sermon of either or, right?
22:13
SPEAKER_00: That's binary.
22:14
SPEAKER_00: So that's so that was playing a role, but I think it's important to make that distinction because why is it important to make that distinction?
22:26
SPEAKER_00: It's like if I can't think of a specific person in my community telling me it, I still felt the vibration of it in the institution and the system.
22:36
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
22:36
SPEAKER_00: And I think even myself, I forget that, and I also try to act like that's not a thing.
22:41
SPEAKER_00: I really, yeah.
22:44
SPEAKER_00: It's yeah, it's like feed into it, right?
22:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because the more we feed it, it's like the self-filling prophecy, right?
22:52
SPEAKER_02: And so if you if you like are hyper aware of how society is influencing you, then maybe you're more easily influenced as opposed to if you're just not paying attention to it and you're just kind of following your own inner authority and strategy, then you can feel free to operate outside of those systems.
23:12
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love this.
23:13
SPEAKER_00: I love that we're here.
23:14
SPEAKER_00: It's the vulnerability of it, it's the recognition of like, okay, I have an internal system and I'm in an external system, and it is informing on me.
23:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:26
SPEAKER_00: And and I can become consciously aware of how it is, and then there's some shit that I don't know that is absolutely influencing me.
23:33
SPEAKER_00: And that's the beauty of it, but it's terrifying.
23:38
SPEAKER_00: Because of when you see like influences that that weren't that were harmful, for example.
23:48
SPEAKER_00: Right?
23:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, because there's beautiful influences that's happening too, right?
23:52
SPEAKER_00: I mean it's all beautiful, but there's things that weren't harmful or that were enhancing or nourishing or helpful.
23:58
SPEAKER_00: But it's the reality that no, you're you're picking up on it all.
24:02
SPEAKER_00: And it's that feeling of um.
24:11
SPEAKER_00: I think it's the lie that we completely control our influence.
24:16
SPEAKER_00: Let me reframe, we completely control how we're influenced.
24:20
SPEAKER_00: That's what it is, right?
24:22
SPEAKER_00: Like if you're influenced by some, I mean, there can even be a shame of like, like growing up as a kid, it's interesting.
24:29
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't cool to be like influenced or like to not have your own, like if you're saying if you're if it's obvious that you're saying something because somebody else said it, like I feel like my friends, they would they would call you out on that.
24:42
SPEAKER_00: Okay, right?
24:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:45
SPEAKER_00: And so there was this encouragement or this peer pressure to like know where the fuck you stand, right?
24:54
SPEAKER_00: Which is a that's a great thing.
24:56
SPEAKER_00: And though sometimes I do feel strongly about something, and then I have one conversation and I'm like, oh, I think my whole viewpoint just changed.
25:04
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, well, isn't that the whole reason we're in community?
25:07
SPEAKER_00: But then if you think about it too long, it's like, but what if this this can go in a lot of places, right?
25:14
SPEAKER_00: It's like that recognition of okay.
25:26
SPEAKER_00: It's the I think it's people call it survival's guilt.
25:44
SPEAKER_00: That's not really what it is, but it feels close to it.
25:48
SPEAKER_00: It's the awakening something.
25:51
SPEAKER_00: Like when you awaken, like when you realize shit, like this is this program, they've been lying to us in some ways.
25:59
SPEAKER_00: So we feel this in a lot of different things, right?
26:01
SPEAKER_00: And then so then you can always almost become neurotic about, well, what else am I asleep?
26:08
SPEAKER_02: Totally about.
26:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:10
SPEAKER_00: And that's what it is.
26:12
SPEAKER_00: It's that obsession of that.
26:13
SPEAKER_00: And it's really it's control.
26:15
SPEAKER_00: It's control.
26:16
SPEAKER_00: It's that obsession of like, what else am I not aware of?
26:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:20
SPEAKER_00: And wanting to get there.
26:21
SPEAKER_00: And it's like you have to just let it unfold as it will unfold.
26:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
26:25
SPEAKER_02: I hear that.
26:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
26:26
SPEAKER_02: Cause if you go around just kind of digging around, like, you know, sometimes you're gonna find stuff that, you know, maybe is a little hard to deal with once you've uncovered it.
26:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
26:37
SPEAKER_02: And then also kind of trusting in this kind of like inherent unwinding that does sort of like organically happen when you begin to kind of live in this way, right?
26:47
SPEAKER_02: And just letting it kind of like unfold without needing to like get to the bottom of it.
26:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's a different energy.
26:55
SPEAKER_00: Right.
26:56
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, give me the cheat code right now.
26:58
SPEAKER_00: I need I need to see it all.
27:00
SPEAKER_00: I sound like my students, but yeah.
27:02
SPEAKER_02: For sure.
27:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I wonder too, like, if you think in this day and age, it's more important for us as individuals to really tune into and allow our multiplicity to be expressed.
27:17
SPEAKER_02: I feel like with the way we are nowadays and just with where our society is going, with everything happening in the world, if there's like an advantage that like, let's say, you know, someone like yourself or like myself might have because we are able to be a bit more flexible and we can allow different parts of ourselves to be expressed.
27:40
SPEAKER_02: I I don't know.
27:41
SPEAKER_02: What do you think?
27:41
SPEAKER_02: Is that coming becoming more important in the day and age we live in than it was, let's say, you know, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago, where it's maybe easier to just find a box and stay there.
27:53
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's interesting.
27:55
SPEAKER_00: Like a part of me feels like a yes, but I'm also like, why do we feel that it's more of an advantage?
28:06
SPEAKER_00: Why do you say it's more of an advantage now than say 10, 20 years ago?
28:10
SPEAKER_02: I mean, for myself, I just think our systems are crumbling and like the linear patriarchal, like sort of Western model is clearly not working for so many of us.
28:24
SPEAKER_02: With, I mean, even just you look at people's, you know, mental health and our economy and all of these different assets of our lives where you know things aren't working.
28:33
SPEAKER_02: And so if we are able to be more flexible, more adaptable, then we do kind of like allow ourselves to navigate those waters with maybe a little bit less friction.
28:44
SPEAKER_00: That's okay.
28:46
SPEAKER_00: I felt that's what you were with the context that you were in.
28:49
SPEAKER_00: I just want it, I want it explicitly uh be sure that's what you meant.
28:56
SPEAKER_00: So yes.
29:02
SPEAKER_00: I'm thinking even like there was a time, like if we so if we look at just the one example of this, like even going to college in something as simple as choosing choosing a major.
29:12
SPEAKER_00: Yes, right?
29:14
SPEAKER_00: It was like when I was in school, it's like, okay, just choose a major.
29:18
SPEAKER_00: And there were, of course, these established majors that are hot more encouraged based on the economy.
29:25
SPEAKER_00: This is always, I think this is always the case.
29:27
SPEAKER_00: It depends on what the current economy currently is, which majors get highlighted, right?
29:32
SPEAKER_00: And STEM is for my lifetime consistently been like, consider, consider this as a major, right?
29:41
SPEAKER_00: But as AI come in, it may be like, I don't know.
29:44
SPEAKER_00: I mean, where in STEM are you choosing, right?
29:47
SPEAKER_00: Because if are you wanting to be a botanist or a programmer?
29:50
SPEAKER_00: And I can see people being like, oh, you should do more of the programmer.
29:57
SPEAKER_00: I so this, because I a part of me I'm so grateful that the system is crumbling.
30:02
SPEAKER_00: Me too, girl.
30:04
SPEAKER_00: It's like I've been waiting my whole life, but I feel like I don't want to say that all the time.
30:09
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I say this in private circles because it's like, because as it crumbles, the shit is it's painful.
30:15
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's there's bloodshed, literally, and in all the ways, right?
30:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:20
SPEAKER_00: Um, but the reason that I'm so grateful that it's crumbling is because that linear way of thinking was never serving fucking anybody.
30:31
SPEAKER_00: Right.
30:32
SPEAKER_00: Right?
30:33
SPEAKER_00: Even the ones that it looked like it was, it was serving a small few.
30:37
SPEAKER_00: You have, you sure you have some people that they are designed, and even then, I would, I mean, we don't know.
30:45
SPEAKER_00: It may look linear to us, but there is nuance in there.
30:49
SPEAKER_00: There is no such thing as linearity or one thing.
30:52
SPEAKER_00: It just isn't.
30:53
SPEAKER_00: Like nature just defies that.
30:57
SPEAKER_00: Like everything comes from one thing, but it all multiplicity, replication, division.
31:03
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's always, it's there.
31:05
SPEAKER_00: So our obsession with like everybody needs to do, like, even the workplace, like this is what behavior is in the workplace, right?
31:13
SPEAKER_00: This is how you dress, this is how you behave.
31:15
SPEAKER_00: I'm just like, are y'all fucking kidding?
31:16
SPEAKER_00: This is stupid.
31:17
SPEAKER_00: Like, why are we doing this?
31:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's very unnatural.
31:22
SPEAKER_00: It's so unnatural.
31:23
SPEAKER_00: And but I don't know, the programming was so effective that most the mass is like we were in it.
31:31
SPEAKER_00: Like we were just doing it.
31:32
SPEAKER_00: And so, yes, now that it is, I do like I feel like in real time, not even making predictions in real time, I hear more and more conversations.
31:47
SPEAKER_00: I'm in more and more spaces where we're talking about the many things that we are.
31:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
31:52
SPEAKER_00: Right.
31:52
SPEAKER_00: Versus before, like when I think about when I was working just a few years ago, right?
32:00
SPEAKER_00: And it's not, I don't know that it's so much the career path versus just where the collective is right now.
32:08
SPEAKER_00: The conversation was very different when I was talking to like colleagues.
32:13
SPEAKER_00: Like it's like this is all we we have, like one of three things we always talk about, right?
32:19
SPEAKER_00: Which is why I would go in sometimes, and then it's like, okay.
32:22
SPEAKER_00: But we we had a a very like way that we all behaved in this space.
32:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:28
SPEAKER_00: Now, maybe secretly we were all, I mean, well, we all we were secretly all doing things separately.
32:32
SPEAKER_00: We weren't talking about it in the space.
32:35
SPEAKER_00: But now it feels so good to be like in a space.
32:38
SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness.
32:39
SPEAKER_00: I I had a conversation with a colleague that was talking about growing marijuana.
32:45
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
32:46
SPEAKER_00: Love it.
32:46
SPEAKER_00: I that conversation set me free because I'm like, we are in an academic institution, and it is two like scientists having a conversation, and she's telling, I mean, it's so normal, but like there was a time where you would never share that because this is not the place to share that.
33:07
SPEAKER_00: It's inappropriate, and so yes, it because really our being multidimensional is just creativity at its root.
33:19
SPEAKER_00: Like we've named or limited what creativity is, but it's not creativity, it's just creation, it's the ability to create in some way, and there's a lot of ways that you can do that, and so being those expressing multi-layered, the multi-dimensions of us is just being creative.
33:39
SPEAKER_00: And when a system crumbles, right, when we go from this really ordered to this chaotic, disordered, it is a fucking like playground for creativity.
33:54
SPEAKER_00: And I feel like those that are in that curiosity and creativity is just like, oh my goodness, there's so much play here.
34:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so much play.
34:04
SPEAKER_00: There's so much to play with here.
34:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
34:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
34:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
34:07
SPEAKER_02: I love that.
34:08
SPEAKER_02: I love how you kind of explain how allowing ourselves to embody these different parts of ourselves is really a form of creativity.
34:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's beautiful.
34:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
34:18
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think it is, it's creativity's expression or one of creativity's expression.
34:24
SPEAKER_00: So when people even say, like, I'm not creative, it's like, I don't think you can be living here as a human being and not be creative.
34:33
SPEAKER_00: I don't know that it's possible based on just the laws of nature.
34:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
34:38
SPEAKER_00: No, I'm it's it's just the question of how free do you feel.
34:42
SPEAKER_02: Right.
34:42
SPEAKER_02: To create.
34:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think creativity, like that was why I love what you said so much there, because I think a lot of times people will hear creativity and they're like, oh, I don't paint or draw, or you know, and it's like, well, no, we use creativity in in everything, really.
35:00
SPEAKER_02: It's how we create and imagine and shift and culminate things.
35:06
SPEAKER_02: Like we can do that through the expressions of ourselves, we can do that through our clothing, we can do that through cooking, through our home.
35:13
SPEAKER_02: So there's so many different ways to express our creativity.
35:17
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I love what you said about giving ourselves permission to play.
35:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
35:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
35:23
SPEAKER_02: What why do you think that's so difficult for people?
35:27
SPEAKER_02: Like, why might someone choose to stay in the box and choose to kind of compartmentalize and section off different parts of themselves?
35:38
SPEAKER_02: And maybe you can't speak to, you know, everyone else, but maybe you can speak to what that was like for you.
35:44
SPEAKER_00: Ooh, it's harder, it's harder to control the narrative when you're living creatively.
35:50
SPEAKER_00: If I'm just, yeah.
35:51
SPEAKER_00: If I'm just expressing in one box, it's easier for me to control the narrative of how you see me.
35:57
SPEAKER_00: But if I'm really being more expansive of me, just creative me, I I cannot, I don't actually have the energy to control the narrative because I'm I'm just it's a different way of using the energy.
36:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:19
SPEAKER_00: It takes a lot of energy to try to control.
36:22
SPEAKER_00: It's a lot of fucking energy input, right?
36:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:25
SPEAKER_00: So for me, when I spend a lot of time trying to control the narrative, I can I now it's like I can feel it, the shift of like when it's like, oh, I am not being creative.
36:39
SPEAKER_00: And the way that I I don't say I'm not being creative, I say, oh, I stopped playing.
36:43
SPEAKER_00: I'm really serious, right?
36:45
SPEAKER_00: That's how it looks for me.
36:46
SPEAKER_00: And so that's because my energy has now gone into controlling the narrative and just controlling, and because it's it's the it's the fear of being rejected, yeah, exiled from the community, right?
37:03
SPEAKER_00: And for me, even recently, like I had to just admit to myself, like the people in my community, I'm I was like, what would it be like if I practiced vulnerability and I said to them, hey, I'm being this, this new expression of me has emerged, right?
37:29
SPEAKER_00: Or just or it's whatever the fear is, and I actually feel like I need valid, like I need you to explicitly hold me in this, or I'm having this fear that you're gonna reject me if I express this part of me.
37:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
37:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
37:44
SPEAKER_00: Like to just say that to someone, or when they say something that is affirming to say, oh my goodness, I I just had this conf happen on a conversation yesterday with my godmother.
37:56
SPEAKER_00: And she said something that maybe she was like, I always knew this about you.
38:00
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I guess I realized I needed to hear you say it.
38:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
38:07
SPEAKER_00: Like a lot.
38:08
SPEAKER_00: Like tell, like, you know what I mean?
38:10
SPEAKER_00: But it's like it's like we want to be validated, but we're not supposed to want validation, so we don't want to ask for it.
38:20
SPEAKER_00: It's like this pressure, and it's like, yes, give it to yourself.
38:23
SPEAKER_00: And we're in community for a reason.
38:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
38:28
SPEAKER_00: And so it's really tied to community for me.
38:35
SPEAKER_00: And I mean, a therapist probably would tie that to my childhood, I'm sure.
38:38
SPEAKER_00: But oh, this makes it, I mean, you know, the family dynamic, blah, blah, blah.
38:44
SPEAKER_00: Um but it's yeah, it's really whenever I'm not being super cre whenever I'm stunting my creativity, it's because I have this fear that the people that I love the most are gonna leave me precisely for being this version of me.
39:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's so real.
39:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm getting this like word belonging keeps coming.
39:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because we all just want to belong and be seen and heard and understood.
39:12
SPEAKER_02: And so it makes sense that we kind of like hold back these parts of ourselves in order to maintain connection, love, that sense of belonging.
39:22
SPEAKER_02: And it's so interesting that, like, I mean, our beautiful wives systems, they do these amazing things all unconsciously.
39:29
SPEAKER_02: And then it's also kind of silly in a way, because as we deny the most authentic and real parts of ourselves and relationships, we're actually not able to have the same quality of a relationship if we're not bringing our full selves to the relationship.
39:46
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
39:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's it's like we're fucking ourselves and not really like we're fucking ourselves and trying to prevent ourselves from getting fucked.
39:57
SPEAKER_00: It's like Yeah, the human condition.
39:59
SPEAKER_02: It's it's the gnarly one.
40:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think as as women too, I think women are maybe, and I could be wrong, but I feel like women maybe experience this on a deeper level, you know, just because one, we are marginalized, and then to be, you know, a woman of color, there's another, you know, level of being marginalized.
40:19
SPEAKER_02: And so that sense of belonging, needing to belong, is is is I think deeper in in the you know experience of a woman.
40:28
SPEAKER_02: And so maybe there is this sort of like stronger drive to belong and to fit in and to be accepted, more so for women than for men, potentially.
40:40
SPEAKER_02: Or maybe men just aren't talking about it.
40:43
SPEAKER_02: That's the thing too.
40:45
SPEAKER_00: Hmm.
40:46
SPEAKER_00: When Azure talking, the question, like, who do we want to belong to is what's coming up.
40:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
40:55
SPEAKER_00: Because it's one thing, it's one thing to want to belong to the masses or want to belong in the workplace, want to belong in your church or in certain things or in your family.
41:21
SPEAKER_00: And I I don't I this is a really good question.
41:24
SPEAKER_00: Like, it do we want to belong in all those spaces?
41:27
SPEAKER_00: I for and I'm asking, I'm curious what your answer is to this too.
41:33
SPEAKER_00: And then I'm also asking myself this question.
41:45
SPEAKER_00: It is like a it's a it I'm conflicted a little bit.
41:48
SPEAKER_00: It's like, of course I do, but it's like, no, I don't need to belong in all spaces, but it's like, but do you want to belong in all of like if you could if you have the option, you can belong in the workplace or you don't belong in the workplace, or something else.
42:03
SPEAKER_00: Do you do you want to ri belong?
42:05
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, I think I'd want to experience belonging in the workplace.
42:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I feel like what's coming up for me is like belonging to yourself, belonging to me.
42:16
SPEAKER_02: And then when I feel that sense of belonging in myself, which for me has really come from allowing these different parts of myself to be expressed, like welcoming all parts of myself.
42:27
SPEAKER_02: And then that kind of like is a feeling, it's like a felt sense I can like take with me into any environment, whether it's a workplace or you know, a club or a bar or a concert or whatever.
42:40
SPEAKER_02: I'm not like looking outside of myself to feel that sense of belonging.
42:44
SPEAKER_02: I've created that sense within.
42:46
SPEAKER_02: And sure, there's places where you know there's going to be resonance and deeper connection than others.
42:50
SPEAKER_02: There, there's certain places where I'm like, I'm cool, I don't need to belong or fit in here.
42:55
SPEAKER_02: But that I think comes from that belonging and security within myself.
43:00
SPEAKER_02: Um, because if we don't have that belonging or that security, then you know, maybe we we shape shift, we people please to try to get that sense of belonging.
43:10
SPEAKER_00: Got you.
43:12
SPEAKER_00: I so okay, because a lot of the times when I hear things about like black women struggle with belonging.
43:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
43:22
SPEAKER_00: That's why I and marginalized people struggling with belonging.
43:27
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, well, who are they struggling to belong to?
43:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
43:35
SPEAKER_00: The overculture is you know, yeah, because it's like if you maybe they maybe they don't belong in those spaces because they don't want to belong in those spaces.
43:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
43:44
SPEAKER_00: I mean, then we considered that, that that's why they don't belong in those spaces, and it has nothing, it's not to negate all of these other truths that may be happening, right?
43:56
SPEAKER_00: Or experiences that people are having.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: But it's I don't know, it's some yeah, it's something with this buzzword belonging.
44:04
SPEAKER_00: Also at my at my school that was like the theme for our conversation.
44:08
SPEAKER_00: So it kind of has me.
44:19
SPEAKER_00: But also like activated in some way.
44:22
SPEAKER_00: Not in, yeah, like I'm like activating like there's some charge around it.
44:25
SPEAKER_00: Like what like where I was like, I need to get to the root of this.
44:28
SPEAKER_00: Like, what do we mean when we're saying belonging?
44:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I hear you.
44:32
SPEAKER_02: I mean there's like all these buzzwords, right?
44:35
SPEAKER_02: I think as uh I mean, I guess we'll just say like the personal development work and healing as it slowly begins to move more into the mainstream.
44:44
SPEAKER_02: Uh, we do kind of hear, you know, wellness, belonging, safety, you know.
44:50
SPEAKER_02: And I think it's healthy to really question like, okay, what are we actually talking about here?
44:54
SPEAKER_02: So I appreciate, yeah, that activation and that that wise part of you that's like this is a bit more nuanced than just belonging.
45:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because I one, I love your definition of belonging.
45:09
SPEAKER_00: In some ways, I feel like you gave language to something I couldn't say in this moment, right?
45:15
SPEAKER_00: Like, like belonging, like even that idea of alone, of being lonely, I mean.
45:19
SPEAKER_00: Right, right, like loneliness is an experience.
45:26
SPEAKER_00: It's not just because you don't have people around.
45:29
SPEAKER_00: Right.
45:30
SPEAKER_00: Right.
45:30
SPEAKER_00: Or you're not around the right.
45:32
SPEAKER_00: It's like it's an experience.
45:33
SPEAKER_00: You can be lonely with people, you can be lonely around lonely.
45:37
SPEAKER_00: And around a lot of people.
45:40
SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of how I feel with this belonging.
45:43
SPEAKER_00: I almost feel like there's something connected between belonging and loneliness that feels and may because I know like hearing about I I don't know that I've done this research myself, but just hearing there's conversation about loneliness, a lot of it, and just how it's it's interesting how it seems like more people are lonely even though we have more ways of quote unquote connecting.
46:18
SPEAKER_00: And I feel like when we say belonging, this is what we're getting at.
46:22
SPEAKER_00: And it's like it's really it's yeah, some it's really something with connection, like the experience of feeling connected.
46:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
46:40
SPEAKER_00: And you can feel connected to yourself and within the context of just you, or within the context of being in space with someone, because ultimately we're always connected.
46:52
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
46:53
SPEAKER_00: And so, or we have access to it, I should say, to connection.
46:57
SPEAKER_00: We may not always feel it.
46:59
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it's just yeah, it's something with this belonging that feels connected to loneliness that I'm yeah, no, I'm I'm following that thread, and yeah, I definitely see the correlation there too.
47:14
SPEAKER_02: And you make a great point.
47:15
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we live in a world where you know we have more technology and the internet and social media, and we got our cell phones, we got text messaging, we got WhatsApp, we got everything.
47:25
SPEAKER_02: And yet there are more people who are feeling lonely.
47:28
SPEAKER_02: I really like that you brought in this connection piece though, because I think that's what it really boils down to is that connection to ourselves and to other people as well.
47:37
SPEAKER_02: And I think we've we've really kind of lost that.
47:40
SPEAKER_02: And I think that sometimes if we, you know, if we've lost that connection to ourselves, to the different parts of ourselves, we've lost the connection to these different ways of expressing ourselves, then maybe that kind of feeds into this sense of disconnection and being lonely.
48:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
48:02
SPEAKER_00: And specifically intimacy, because there's different kinds of connection.
48:06
SPEAKER_00: I'm talking like the form of connection that's about intimacy.
48:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
48:14
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you want to dive more into that, but that's yeah, I think that's just Yeah.
48:21
SPEAKER_02: No, I mean that they're different, right?
48:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
48:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
48:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
48:25
SPEAKER_02: I think this intimacy piece is more about being vulnerable and feeling like we can be our authentic selves and and being courageous enough to like show these parts of ourselves without knowing if we're gonna be accepted or rejected.
48:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean we never yeah, because we never know.
48:50
SPEAKER_00: We don't.
48:51
SPEAKER_00: We will be and I mean not we will be rejected, but we will.
49:00
SPEAKER_00: I guess we will be rejected.
49:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, it's yeah, we will be rejected.
49:04
SPEAKER_00: It's not, yeah, it's it's a part, it's not, it's not a I don't even want to say a bad thing.
49:13
SPEAKER_00: I mean it's it's the inevitable.
49:15
SPEAKER_00: Like you will be you will experience rejection.
49:18
SPEAKER_00: This is living.
49:18
SPEAKER_00: To live is to feel like to to experience rejection of just no when you maybe wanted a yes.
49:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
49:27
SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, it's a valuable lesson, I think.
49:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
49:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
49:32
SPEAKER_02: I I get really curious as we're sort of slowly reaching um the hour here and there's no rush, but I'm curious about I always like to kind of end the episodes with a bit more kind of practical thing for our listeners who are, you know, maybe they're starting to touch on things inside of themselves and they're wanting to maybe explore this idea of expressing different parts of themselves.
49:54
SPEAKER_02: What does that look like in your life like on a practical level?
49:57
SPEAKER_02: Because I know you teach chemistry, you also dance, you write.
50:02
SPEAKER_02: Like, can you tell us like how you're able to give space for all of these different parts of yourself?
50:11
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, if we're giving real, yeah, real practical.
50:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
50:15
SPEAKER_00: So here is so I like to name like what's true, right?
50:19
SPEAKER_00: So the so the reality is I don't have children.
50:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
50:24
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for yeah, I don't, I just want to keep it right.
50:27
SPEAKER_00: I don't have children.
50:29
SPEAKER_00: I don't have right at the moment, I don't have like a committed partner.
50:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, I have community, I have family, but like those are because those are really big responsibilities that is important to like keep within with within the context, right?
50:45
SPEAKER_00: And so that that plays a huge role in how I have all this, you know, I I've been thinking about that a lot lately.
50:55
SPEAKER_00: And of like it takes space to like be able to self-reflect.
51:03
SPEAKER_00: Like something that feels so natural for me.
51:06
SPEAKER_00: It's like if you are consumed with certain responsibilities, or I don't even want to say consumed with it, like you are in a number of commitments.
51:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's not to say that you can't do this, but there is more commitments that makes it more nuanced and complex to do it.
51:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
51:25
SPEAKER_00: And so I've been thinking about this because if I if I'm thinking about me as a part, we're all in community, it's like, well, for those of us that is that don't have children or don't have these commitments, how am I contributing to like to the community, to the collective, right?
51:46
SPEAKER_00: With like a mother or parents that have kids, like I feel like their com their contribution is is their family.
51:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, and and they shouldn't be responsible for like a million and one other things because that is typical that is that requires their their whole being, right?
52:05
SPEAKER_00: And so if we're thinking community, it's like, okay, well, if that if that's their thing, how can someone on the opposite extreme like me that don't have these commitments, what would be my commitment to like how can I show up to support this organism, right?
52:19
SPEAKER_00: This community.
52:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
52:21
SPEAKER_00: Um, I know I realize I segue, but I'm gonna, I'm coming, I just wanted to name that point, but I'm coming back to your question.
52:30
SPEAKER_00: Practical for me is I love simplicity.
52:38
SPEAKER_00: Right?
52:39
SPEAKER_00: I'm very complex and I relish in complexity, but not complicated per se.
52:45
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I love simplicity.
52:48
SPEAKER_00: So I it's like a spiritual practice for me of like how can things be simple, right?
52:57
SPEAKER_00: Like down to I'm intentional with buying like clothes and shoes.
53:02
SPEAKER_00: Because it's like I don't want to have 50 options because I'll be standing there for two hours figuring out what I'm gonna wear.
53:12
SPEAKER_00: And for some people that brings that might bring them pleasure, that whole journey of like, what will I wear?
53:18
SPEAKER_00: It's like I want to do that in like a mall or something, but in my house, like, okay, I'm getting up, putting on clothes, I I need it simple.
53:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
53:26
SPEAKER_00: Um and I love and the beauty and simplicity for me is like it's how I feel luxurious.
53:36
SPEAKER_00: Like when we think about like luxurious retreats, it's it's usually real, like for me, it's like simple.
53:42
SPEAKER_00: Like it's clean, the space is minimal, it doesn't have a lot of stuff.
53:46
SPEAKER_00: Everything is intentionally placed to spark inspiration or bring beauty, or the aromas are there to help me relax, right?
53:56
SPEAKER_00: So I'm always thinking about how do I have less things.
54:00
SPEAKER_00: And this is also like physically with like clutter.
54:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
54:04
SPEAKER_00: Um like anyone in my family or community knows it's Tavina's coming, she's obsessed with clean, right?
54:13
SPEAKER_00: But it's not from a like a it can be that extreme, like of a of a perfection thing, but it's it's more of a it's a practice.
54:25
SPEAKER_00: It's just like how it's my spiritual practice, spaces being clean around me, having nice aromas, smell is really big for me.
54:34
SPEAKER_00: So, what does the space smell like?
54:39
SPEAKER_00: And even like the foods that I eat, like really having the space to like be present with the food.
54:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
54:47
SPEAKER_00: So one of the things I had noticed, I just started doing this.
54:50
SPEAKER_00: I would eat in my car at work, and I was now I have a whole office.
54:53
SPEAKER_00: I was like, why the fuck are we eating in the car?
54:55
SPEAKER_00: Like, I was just doing it, and then one day I was like, Why are we eating in the car?
55:02
SPEAKER_02: So many other options.
55:04
SPEAKER_00: You can just stay in your office, and I mean I would eat outside sometimes, but I just noticed this, and it was it was nice to just even if I'm in my office, there's a lot of buzz.
55:16
SPEAKER_00: Students are they might knock on your door.
55:18
SPEAKER_00: So I just it was the way that I needed to just sort of come back to me and ground, and that's important specifically while I eat.
55:30
SPEAKER_00: And all of these things that I do, I've come to realize is me practicing how to calm my nervous system.
55:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
55:41
SPEAKER_00: It's that's I mean, my nerve, it's the it's the everything, it's the nervous system.
55:44
SPEAKER_00: It's like, okay, what is going to bring some relief?
55:48
SPEAKER_00: And how do I calm my nervous system?
55:50
SPEAKER_00: Because I need my nervous system calm so that I can be safe enough to express all these parts of me.
55:57
SPEAKER_00: If my nervous system is activated, it's it's it can be really challenging to like, so it's really about creating that safety in my body for me to now like be the stream or allow that stream to come in and flow.
56:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
56:15
SPEAKER_00: And so everything I do in my practice from day to day, right?
56:19
SPEAKER_00: Even just pausing when somebody asks a difficult question, yes, especially when you're teaching with students, and I tell my students a lot, like, I heard your question, I'm thinking of the answer, because they'll be looking at me like, did you hear me?
56:31
SPEAKER_00: Because it's this long, awkward pause.
56:34
SPEAKER_00: Which I don't know why pauses are so awkward.
56:36
SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's because I'm recognizing, okay, this I'm noticing all the things in my body that this question's activating.
56:46
SPEAKER_00: I'm also trying to like make sure I meet them with like respect and like meet them in this moment.
56:55
SPEAKER_00: I'm fucking exhausted, especially maybe if it's the end of the semester.
56:59
SPEAKER_00: So I'm just like, let's just pause and give space for all of this that's happening before I say anything, right?
57:06
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes I will say, I'ma call you back up when I have an answer.
57:10
SPEAKER_00: Like, give me a minute to think about it, right?
57:12
SPEAKER_00: And it's giving myself permission to do that, to not rush.
57:16
SPEAKER_00: So slow is like my new rhythm.
57:20
SPEAKER_00: How can I move slow?
57:22
SPEAKER_00: When I'm moving, so how do I move even slower?
57:24
SPEAKER_02: I love it.
57:25
SPEAKER_02: I'm here for it.
57:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's beautiful.
57:27
SPEAKER_02: I love that.
57:28
SPEAKER_02: I'm really kind of like picking up on this element of like your environment, maybe.
57:33
SPEAKER_02: Correct me if I'm wrong.
57:34
SPEAKER_02: Like the environment that you're in really contributes to your ability to express yourself and not just the outer environment, but also that internal environment too.
57:44
SPEAKER_02: Right.
57:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, creating that felt sense of of safety so that you can be more able to express yourself more openly and more creatively.
57:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
57:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
57:56
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
57:57
SPEAKER_00: It is, yeah, nature and nurture for sure.
58:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think that's important because, like, like we've kind of talked about, like this creative life force energy that really cannot be contained.
58:09
SPEAKER_02: We try to, but it cannot because it is holds a power that goes far beyond what our minds can comprehend.
58:15
SPEAKER_02: And there's so much like wisdom and beauty in that.
58:18
SPEAKER_02: And so if we can just create the right conditions, this sort of greater intelligent creative life force energy.
58:25
SPEAKER_02: It she, I'm gonna call her she because that's what I'm saying.
58:28
SPEAKER_02: She can she can just flow, she can just do her thing.
58:31
SPEAKER_00: She knows what she's doing.
58:33
SPEAKER_00: She's like, I don't need your help.
58:34
SPEAKER_00: Actually, I need you to fucking chill.
58:37
SPEAKER_00: That's all that's your one job.
58:40
SPEAKER_00: Like, literally.
58:41
SPEAKER_00: And we're like, wait, no, but I'm trying to help.
58:43
SPEAKER_00: It's like, and then she just like, I'll wait.
58:46
SPEAKER_00: I will wait, okay?
58:47
SPEAKER_00: I will wait.
58:49
SPEAKER_00: But that's it.
58:50
SPEAKER_00: That's our one job, is just to relax.
58:52
SPEAKER_00: And then, because you're right, that her the technology of that life sports energy is that wisdom is ancient.
59:00
SPEAKER_00: We don't need to try to dictate and figure it out.
59:02
SPEAKER_00: We're just supposed to allow it to go.
59:06
SPEAKER_00: Just let it flow.
59:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
59:08
SPEAKER_00: And be looking with everybody else, like, oh wow, like with curiosity, awe and wonder.
59:13
SPEAKER_00: That's it.
59:14
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
59:15
SPEAKER_00: This is how she's expressing.
59:17
SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
59:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
59:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
59:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
59:19
SPEAKER_02: I love that.
59:20
SPEAKER_02: And it's something that I've really kind of adapted as part of my creative practice too.
59:24
SPEAKER_02: And that's something that, you know, you and I both share.
59:26
SPEAKER_02: We have all these different interests.
59:28
SPEAKER_02: You know, I love to paint.
59:28
SPEAKER_02: I love to, you know, making music right now.
59:30
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I still love to go super deep with my studies.
59:33
SPEAKER_02: And I still love to dance.
59:35
SPEAKER_02: I've I've noticed I'm not dancing as much these days because I'm doing these other things.
59:39
SPEAKER_02: And so that's kind of where I struggle.
59:41
SPEAKER_02: Is like, oh man, like I need to be dancing more.
59:43
SPEAKER_02: But it's like, no, you're you're working on other stuff right now.
59:46
SPEAKER_02: So I try to really kind of like trust in the rhythm and the seasons.
59:52
SPEAKER_02: And I think, you know, maybe it's that societal, or maybe it's not societal, but an external, like, oh, I should be doing dance this amount of times.
1:00:02
SPEAKER_02: But it's like if it's in me, it's in me.
1:00:04
SPEAKER_02: And if, you know, maybe there's something to this other part of me being expressed, and maybe the skills I develop here I can then kind of bring back into my dance, and it all kind of like feeds into each other.
1:00:16
SPEAKER_02: Is that something you expect?
1:00:19
SPEAKER_00: I feel like there is always ooh, I was gonna say a pool.
1:00:26
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
1:00:26
SPEAKER_00: A pool.
1:00:29
SPEAKER_00: And for me, like her energy is that pool, right?
1:00:35
SPEAKER_00: Because when you're being pulled, like you just you're you're being pulled, right?
1:00:39
SPEAKER_00: And then when it's the external programming of like I should be doing things, that feels more like a push.
1:00:45
SPEAKER_00: And really I'm I'm just still delineating what is what because something as simple as like I don't I try not to make like goals.
1:01:03
SPEAKER_00: Like in the sense of, okay, by this date, I and I say try because I I have not succeeded in setting all goals.
1:01:11
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I literally have a a summer goals list for summer.
1:01:14
SPEAKER_00: Like I'm not even I'm just but I have this theory, right?
1:01:18
SPEAKER_00: I have this theory that I think my life could be great without me setting goals.
1:01:27
SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, they would have us believe you need a goal in order to be successful.
1:01:33
SPEAKER_01: Totally.
1:01:34
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I'm pretty sure you can, it can be a method.
1:01:38
SPEAKER_00: There might even be seasons that you circle through where you need, it's like, okay, it's time to make some goals.
1:01:44
SPEAKER_00: Okay, shed the goal thing completely, child.
1:01:46
SPEAKER_00: You you have taken this way too far, right?
1:01:49
SPEAKER_00: And I feel like with this pool energy, it's more of a, it's so simple, but it's terrifying.
1:02:00
SPEAKER_00: And here's why it's terrify, it's terrifying to those of us that obsess with control.
1:02:04
SPEAKER_00: Let me say that.
1:02:04
SPEAKER_00: It's simple because you'll just be flowing.
1:02:08
SPEAKER_00: And this is why I love dance, because dance really teaches us this.
1:02:11
SPEAKER_00: You know how you like, or any really like certain anything you're doing where you get in this like trans like flow state, and you're in it and you're completely aware of it, but you're not thinking about, okay, do it this way.
1:02:29
SPEAKER_00: The next move is this.
1:02:30
SPEAKER_00: You just the next move just appears and you just you're just dancing, right?
1:02:34
SPEAKER_00: I was in a class yesterday and they were like, oh yeah, that's the moment that the that you are danced by the dance.
1:02:40
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
1:02:41
SPEAKER_00: You're not dancing the dance.
1:02:42
SPEAKER_00: And you and the dance, we know that moment, you can feel it.
1:02:45
SPEAKER_00: You're like, shit, I'm about to go in, right?
1:02:48
SPEAKER_00: And what's terrifying about it for those of us that need control is it's it feels like possession.
1:02:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because you're not because it is.
1:03:02
SPEAKER_00: It's like it, but you're not not in control either.
1:03:06
SPEAKER_00: Right?
1:03:06
SPEAKER_00: It's not like my hand is moving and I can't stop it, but it's also like my hand is moving, but like I'm not really telling my hand how to move.
1:03:16
SPEAKER_00: I'm just noticing my hand is moving.
1:03:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I can stop my hand from moving.
1:03:20
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:03:20
SPEAKER_00: So I still have the choice there, and but then you start to feel this force and how powerful this force is and how you can be overtaken by it.
1:03:30
SPEAKER_00: And it is fucking ecstasy and it's terrifying.
1:03:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:03:35
SPEAKER_00: If you want to be in control.
1:03:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, I I heard that.
1:03:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:03:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:03:40
SPEAKER_02: I'm having some kind of the connections happening while I'm listening to you just for like my own creative practice.
1:03:46
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I can think of like I can see the moments like recently, just in the past couple weeks, where um I was like, okay, like I I sh I should dance today.
1:03:58
SPEAKER_02: You know, I haven't had a good dance session.
1:04:01
SPEAKER_02: You know, I usually dance at home.
1:04:02
SPEAKER_02: I'll do like some technique, and then depending on my mood, I I love to do improv dance is what I love.
1:04:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, just like in the moment.
1:04:09
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I love choreography, but to me, there's something so special about it improv.
1:04:13
SPEAKER_02: And I think it just comes from my history as a background, my experience, like working as more of like a you know, a go-go type dancer with my hula hoo, the nightclubs, with you know, DJ sets and we have to go dancing.
1:04:26
SPEAKER_00: I'm like the fact that we have talked so much about dancing, but we have not danced in the same space together yet.
1:04:32
SPEAKER_00: We have to change it.
1:04:33
SPEAKER_02: It's coming, it's coming.
1:04:34
SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah.
1:04:35
SPEAKER_02: Anyway, I was having a practice the other day where I I did kind of notice like what you just kind of described here.
1:04:41
SPEAKER_02: It's like I was kind of more in like the the thinking rather than just the allowing of yeah, the dance to kind of move through me.
1:04:53
SPEAKER_02: And I and I can remember plenty of moments where I've experienced that.
1:04:57
SPEAKER_02: So that's a lovely invitation for me to kind of like weave into any practice that I'm doing is stop thinking about it so much and just kind of like allow things to happen.
1:05:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I mean I I never really know when it's gonna come.
1:05:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, it just it's like a surprise.
1:05:13
SPEAKER_00: Like, oh hey, yeah.
1:05:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:05:15
SPEAKER_02: It's always so nice when it does, though, doesn't it?
1:05:18
SPEAKER_00: It really is.
1:05:19
SPEAKER_00: I think why is yeah, it just it feels yeah, it just feels really it feels great.
1:05:24
SPEAKER_00: Good.
1:05:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
1:05:25
SPEAKER_02: I would Well you and I both know we could talk for I know because I'm like, I mentioned human design.
1:05:33
SPEAKER_00: I was like, we didn't say anything about human design.
1:05:36
SPEAKER_00: But anywho.
1:05:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:05:38
SPEAKER_02: We could definitely do another episode another time.
1:05:41
SPEAKER_02: Um I haven't talked about human design on the podcast at all.
1:05:44
SPEAKER_02: So some of our listeners may be like, What's human design?
1:05:47
SPEAKER_00: So that oh, and I have a great contact for like if you want to hear from someone that does work in this space.
1:05:54
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure you know some folks too, but I have someone.
1:05:57
SPEAKER_00: Okay, cool.
1:05:58
SPEAKER_00: Or we just want to chat human design, because I feel like we're really in it.
1:06:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, definitely.
1:06:03
SPEAKER_02: I I think that would use it this do.
1:06:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I use it a lot actually, and I'm I'm in a very deep experiment right now.
1:06:10
SPEAKER_02: So I would love to share a little bit more with the listeners about human design and and how it can really support a lot of the themes we've discussed here today, being more of your authentic self.
1:06:19
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I do feel like my human design is kind of what helped to unlock that for me, kind of like seeing where all of my gifts were.
1:06:26
SPEAKER_02: And the more I kind of understand myself through that lens and through that system, I'm like, no wonder I like to do all these different things and I have all these different interests.
1:06:36
SPEAKER_02: It's literally part of my design and how I'm built.
1:06:39
SPEAKER_02: And it's just about what we call in human design is like the deconditioning and unraveling yourself from the programs of you know, are the overculture, or you know, your upbringing, and just coming back to your essence, yeah, your authentic essence.
1:06:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:06:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:06:56
SPEAKER_02: And I think when we do that, we can be more open and free and more expressive.
1:07:01
SPEAKER_02: And I remember the shift that I made very intentionally, like as a I you know, I have my you know, creative side, if you will.
1:07:08
SPEAKER_02: And then I worked as a at the time when I was kind of going through this, I was more facilitating retreats and doing more like health coaching um and breathwork facilitation.
1:07:16
SPEAKER_02: And now I'm, you know, more therapeutic, more focused on menstrual cycle awareness.
1:07:21
SPEAKER_02: But as I was kind of navigating that, I had this.
1:07:24
SPEAKER_02: I went really deep with my breath work practice one winter after just a lot of rupture and change.
1:07:29
SPEAKER_02: And I just kept getting this same message like, you just need to create, like, stop trying to just create.
1:07:37
SPEAKER_02: Just create, just create.
1:07:39
SPEAKER_02: And I couldn't deny it anymore.
1:07:41
SPEAKER_02: And I allowed myself to to start singing.
1:07:44
SPEAKER_02: And I joined a singing community and I started making songs.
1:07:47
SPEAKER_02: And I just started I just started allowing myself to be more fully expressed.
1:07:51
SPEAKER_02: And I have found so much fulfillment in that.
1:07:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:07:55
SPEAKER_02: Like I always felt like something was missing or something was off when I just had to be one thing.
1:08:00
SPEAKER_02: But as I gave myself more permission to express myself more freely, more openly, I feel more whole and integrated and complete.
1:08:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's freedom.
1:08:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:08:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:08:12
SPEAKER_00: It's like the practice of freedom.
1:08:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:08:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:08:15
SPEAKER_02: Is that what it's like for you as well?
1:08:16
SPEAKER_02: Allowing yourself to be the writer, the teacher, the data.
1:08:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
1:08:23
SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's every time I do it, it's like it's it's like I feel like the ancestors, like, yes, you have permission.
1:08:34
SPEAKER_00: Yep, keep doing, yeah, you're good.
1:08:37
SPEAKER_00: That's exactly.
1:08:37
SPEAKER_00: It's like, are y'all sure it should I'm yes, yes, we're sure.
1:08:42
SPEAKER_00: It's like it's wild how like even when you're free, it's like this moment, this I say when you're free, like you're free in that expressing creatively and all these different modalities and all these different expressions.
1:09:00
SPEAKER_00: And then it's like, maybe I should focus though, but am I being productive enough?
1:09:05
SPEAKER_00: Right?
1:09:05
SPEAKER_00: If I if I wasn't doing six things and I was only doing two, yeah, then my finances will look differently, or I could hit certain goals faster.
1:09:16
SPEAKER_00: And that's and for me, once I start thinking through that lens, then I can my body goes like this.
1:09:23
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
1:09:26
SPEAKER_00: And with time that starts to happen more and more aggressively, where I will literally be in the ER, sick.
1:09:32
SPEAKER_00: It's like, you know, I mean, and I'm grateful because it's like we don't have, we don't, I don't have to go through this for a longer period of time, but it's like I think it's my body just showing like this is what the experience, this is the vibration of that love, that way of thinking and trying to be.
1:09:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is very rigid and rigid, solid is not inherently wrong.
1:09:59
SPEAKER_00: It's just you're trying to make something that's meant to be water and flowy rigid, and that's when it's like, no, that's not gonna work.
1:10:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:10:08
SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
1:10:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like beautiful.
1:10:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if I if you wake up and you feel like dancing, just dance.
1:10:15
SPEAKER_02: Not like, oh, I I should be dancing today.
1:10:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:10:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:10:19
SPEAKER_02: And just allowing that pool to take me wherever it's taking me, whether it's with music or drawing or dancing, yeah, writing.
1:10:28
SPEAKER_00: Do you want to be dancing more?
1:10:31
unknown: I do.
1:10:31
SPEAKER_00: Do you think it's a shit or a want?
1:10:32
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:10:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I do want.
1:10:33
SPEAKER_02: There is a desire.
1:10:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:10:35
SPEAKER_02: And I'm I'm still dancing, so I also have to like the seasons, right?
1:10:40
SPEAKER_02: Like I was in a different season of my life, and now I'm in a you know, a different season where I've got, you know, more responsibilities for sure, commitments, definitely.
1:10:50
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, teaching more, I think that kind of changes your creative practices.
1:10:54
SPEAKER_02: Well, I've talked to other teaching artists about this.
1:10:57
SPEAKER_02: Like, you don't always have as much time for your personal craft because you're, you know, you're putting so much into your teaching.
1:11:03
SPEAKER_02: So I I trust, especially after today's conversation, I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna allow myself to be in the season that I'm in and allow things to kind of like organically kind of come together in their own way as opposed to trying to control everything.
1:11:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:11:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:11:21
SPEAKER_00: I asked about it's funny because I there's a dance class I just started yesterday and I thought to invite you.
1:11:27
SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna send you the information.
1:11:28
SPEAKER_00: Yep, I think so.
1:11:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Sundays.
1:11:32
SPEAKER_00: I want to say this.
1:11:33
SPEAKER_00: Can I say this last point?
1:11:34
SPEAKER_00: I know we're wrapping up.
1:11:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
1:11:36
SPEAKER_02: No, you're good.
1:11:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I had kind of one more thing I wanted to share too much.
1:11:39
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
1:11:39
SPEAKER_02: So go ahead.
1:11:40
SPEAKER_00: I've been asking myself, like even while I'm teaching, how do I do it all at the same time?
1:11:48
SPEAKER_00: Or how do I like fully surrender to what wants to come through when it does?
1:11:52
SPEAKER_00: And yes, there are moments where I'm, you know, glued in with different aspects of teaching, but it's also interesting how this space just miraculous miraculously appeared for me to do things while teaching.
1:12:06
SPEAKER_00: All a lot of the creative things I've been doing started during a semester of me teaching, right?
1:12:12
SPEAKER_00: Like being in a music school was in the semester teaching.
1:12:15
SPEAKER_00: I started going to dance classes in the semester while teaching.
1:12:21
SPEAKER_00: I'm writing in class, right?
1:12:24
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
1:12:25
SPEAKER_00: So it's it's also sometimes I want to make that note too, just because we're always multitasking a lot of the time anyway, even though I can be anti-multitasking.
1:12:41
SPEAKER_00: But I'm starting to realize like, what if you could, what if most, what if I shan't the idea that multitasking was good or bad?
1:12:48
SPEAKER_00: And if I really just surrendered in the moment, what would it look like?
1:12:52
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes in the moment, I am teaching and writing an essay at the same time.
1:12:58
SPEAKER_00: And it one would be like, well, how?
1:12:59
SPEAKER_00: You're in the classroom.
1:13:00
SPEAKER_00: What if if they're doing a four-hour lab, I don't need, I'm not lecturing the entire time, right?
1:13:06
SPEAKER_00: I'm just facilitating, I check in on them, I come back, and instead of grading, sometimes, which I would do when I'm doing that, I might write.
1:13:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love it.
1:13:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it reminds me of I forget where I read this or heard this.
1:13:22
SPEAKER_02: I don't think I'm gonna get the writer's name right, but there was a writer, she's African-American black, black woman, and I wanna say I don't think it's right.
1:13:30
SPEAKER_02: I'm not even gonna say the name because I don't think it's right, but I I I think it was Tony Morrison.
1:13:36
SPEAKER_02: Is she a famous writer?
1:13:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:13:40
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so maybe it was her.
1:13:41
SPEAKER_02: I'll have to go back and and confirm.
1:13:44
SPEAKER_02: But anyway, they had talked about like she was talking about writing her book.
1:13:48
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, she's like doing all these different roles and commitments, and she's got kids, and she just wrote it like in the in-between moments.
1:13:59
SPEAKER_02: And so she had this thing where she would say, It's like, I'm always working on my book, even when I'm like mothering my children, like I am working on my book, and that like the lived experience of life is like helping you to make the art.
1:14:12
SPEAKER_02: And maybe you do get like a little piece of time where you can, you know, write a couple words or a couple sentences, or you know, like you're working on your writing during your class time, like allowing yourselves to be more creative for how we make time for these things too, and not thinking that it needs to be like, I have to sit down for three hours and do this.
1:14:33
SPEAKER_00: Like that, yeah, that damn programming in school has fucked us.
1:14:37
SPEAKER_00: Making us think you're not in an education or you're you're not creating if you're not sitting, it's no space.
1:14:43
SPEAKER_00: Living is creating, yeah, right.
1:14:45
SPEAKER_00: So even like even if you're like while you're mothering, you especially know how to create because you are doing it.
1:14:53
SPEAKER_00: You are like, you have found all kinds of creative methods for stretching the day.
1:15:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if we was to just ask a mother, like, walk us through your day, yeah, you're like, wait, wait, how did you and they figure it out, right?
1:15:10
SPEAKER_00: Like they be so it's there is spaciousness that is sometimes needed with creativity, and it's living, like it's you have to be living too.
1:15:24
SPEAKER_00: If you just only have all this free space and that's what you're creating from, I mean you can I don't know, I have a theory that's that's how insanity happens.
1:15:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you need that right, that flow of energy, right?
1:15:42
SPEAKER_00: And so you yeah, living is creating.
1:15:46
SPEAKER_00: Living is creating.
1:15:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's beautiful.
1:15:50
SPEAKER_02: Well, I would love to end and let me know how you feel about this with um one of your your writings on on Substack.
1:15:59
SPEAKER_02: And by the way, I didn't realize that you had published a book, which I'm super curious to read.
1:16:06
SPEAKER_02: And it's yeah, it sounds like a story that ties really lovely into the work we do here on the show.
1:16:12
SPEAKER_02: But I would love to read this to you.
1:16:14
SPEAKER_02: I feel like it ties in really beautifully with our themes today if you're open.
1:16:18
SPEAKER_02: Have you had your like word, your writing read back to you?
1:16:24
SPEAKER_00: I I'm pretty sure my godmother has.
1:16:27
SPEAKER_00: Maybe not like an entire piece, but like certain pieces.
1:16:30
SPEAKER_00: No, that's not true.
1:16:31
SPEAKER_00: A friend has read a yes, I have.
1:16:33
SPEAKER_00: Not often, but I have had it done before.
1:16:35
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
1:16:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:16:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, this one's on safety.
1:16:39
SPEAKER_00: Okay, let's hear it.
1:16:40
SPEAKER_02: Do you know what I'm talking about?
1:16:42
SPEAKER_00: I think, but it's been a while, so it'll, yeah, it's as if I haven't heard it before.
1:16:47
SPEAKER_02: Tavina has an incredible Substack, by the way, listeners.
1:16:50
SPEAKER_02: So we'll be sure to put that in the show notes for you.
1:16:53
SPEAKER_02: Um, so this was from Tavina Substack, so I'll go ahead and read that to you.
1:16:59
SPEAKER_02: Is there such a thing as safety?
1:17:01
SPEAKER_02: How do you know?
1:17:03
SPEAKER_02: I believe safety is real.
1:17:05
SPEAKER_02: Not the illusions of safety we've created through home alarm systems, guns carrying, and financial security.
1:17:12
SPEAKER_02: I touched safety when I identified the mother wound of all wounds, lack of trust in me.
1:17:18
SPEAKER_02: We see we have, uh you see, we have no control over the wilderness we live in called life on earth.
1:17:24
SPEAKER_02: Yet there are these moments of sweet surrender, where I believe in me, when I trust me to trust the right relationships and circumstances.
1:17:33
SPEAKER_02: This does not mean that these relationships will last forever or the circumstance will never change.
1:17:39
SPEAKER_02: In fact, they will.
1:17:40
SPEAKER_02: You like them today, tomorrow you love them, the next day they become strange.
1:17:45
SPEAKER_02: You shape your life one way, then an illness, loss of job, or divorce slaps you in the face and your life completely shifts in an instant.
1:17:54
SPEAKER_02: Safety shouldn't even be the goal.
1:17:56
SPEAKER_02: Because we've attached safety to what we can control.
1:17:59
SPEAKER_02: In truth, we control nothing or no one.
1:18:03
SPEAKER_02: Hell, do we even we we even struggle to control ourselves?
1:18:08
SPEAKER_02: Don't believe me?
1:18:09
SPEAKER_02: Remember that time you said you would change your diet and exercise and didn't?
1:18:13
SPEAKER_02: Remember when you promised a loved one a phone call and months passed and you still haven't called?
1:18:17
SPEAKER_02: Remember that business or organization you dream of that still hasn't been birthed?
1:18:22
SPEAKER_02: This is not a beat up.
1:18:23
SPEAKER_02: This is a shedding of light on the reality of living on a planet that is constantly rotating and evolving, dying and growing while living in a body that constantly changes in community with other beings that are steadily shifting.
1:18:37
SPEAKER_02: It's hard to stick to anything that is fixed or finite when the truth of life is infinite.
1:18:41
SPEAKER_02: I propose we throw out the idea of safety into the trash.
1:18:45
SPEAKER_02: It's not attainable.
1:18:46
SPEAKER_02: Hasn't the violence, natural disasters, change in economy, growing up of children, knowing that we will all transition out of our bodies enough evidence?
1:18:55
SPEAKER_02: Instead, let's aim for deep trust.
1:18:58
SPEAKER_02: How can we trust in ourselves, ancestors, spirit, guides, angels, the creator, or a higher self?
1:19:05
SPEAKER_02: How do we simply trust the journey even if we have no idea who or what is governing the physical or spiritual realm?
1:19:12
SPEAKER_02: How do we trust if all of this is complete randomness or chaos?
1:19:16
SPEAKER_02: To answer these questions, I'm currently situating in the following questions.
1:19:20
SPEAKER_02: What does trust feel like in my body?
1:19:23
SPEAKER_02: How do I know if I'm operating in trust or distrust?
1:19:26
SPEAKER_02: Why trust, you ask?
1:19:27
SPEAKER_02: Distrust seems to be the root of all my blocks.
1:19:30
SPEAKER_02: It's the most clever pain in my ass form of self-sabotage that gets in the way of me living free in each moment.
1:19:38
SPEAKER_02: So why trust?
1:19:40
SPEAKER_02: I choose to trust simply because I want to stay free.
1:19:46
SPEAKER_02: So good.
1:19:47
SPEAKER_02: That was like that was really summed up like the whole conversation today.
1:19:52
SPEAKER_02: That was so perfect.
1:19:54
SPEAKER_00: You can count on a projector.
1:19:59
SPEAKER_00: Weave these things together.
1:20:01
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
1:20:02
SPEAKER_00: I thank you for reading that.
1:20:03
SPEAKER_00: I agree.
1:20:04
SPEAKER_00: It really did.
1:20:05
SPEAKER_00: It was so timely for you to read that back to me because it's it's so timely right now.
1:20:11
SPEAKER_02: Wonderful.
1:20:12
SPEAKER_02: Well, any other final words for our listeners today, Tanina, where can people learn more about your work or connect with you if they're feeling inspired today?
1:20:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the main place is my Substack.
1:20:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, it's called Quintessence.
1:20:27
SPEAKER_00: And that is where I give myself permission to be, to just be and to let whatever wants to flow through, flow through in my writing specifically.
1:20:38
SPEAKER_00: Not just writing, storytelling, really what I should say.
1:20:41
SPEAKER_00: Because there is some singing, there is some, you know, reading live, um, or over music, I should say, like recordings.
1:20:48
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's the best way to stay connected with me and follow my work for now.
1:20:54
SPEAKER_02: Wonderful.
1:20:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we'll leave that for our listeners in the show notes.
1:20:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's like the the entry.
1:20:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:21:00
SPEAKER_00: The entry point.
1:21:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:21:01
SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you so much for your time today.
1:21:03
SPEAKER_02: Like I said, we could keep going forever.
1:21:05
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, maybe we'll we'll have another conversation.
1:21:07
SPEAKER_02: But this has been so rich and I feel like such a beautiful culmination to um our sort of series that we did through Gemini season.
1:21:15
SPEAKER_02: So thanks for being here.
1:21:16
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, thanks for um just really embodying all of you.
1:21:21
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
1:21:23
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
1:21:24
SPEAKER_00: This was fun.
1:21:25
SPEAKER_00: I can't wait to do it again.