Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Dylan Rees about his choice of Once, Upon Time

Transcript

Talks to Dylan Rees about his choice of Once, Upon Time · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:40
  Welcome back to hamster with a blunt, penknife a doctor who
• 0:43
  commentary podcast, and I'm here, Dylan to talk about flux
• 0:47
  and, of course, under Joe forward as well.
• 0:50
  I am, ER, heavy flux in these days.
• 0:53
  I'm not seeing all over the place.
• 0:57
  Taking a deep dive and of a flux.
• 1:02
  Oh no, you're blushing. Two minutes here.
• 1:04
  That's great. I've actually just caught the
• 1:07
  sun. Oh yeah.
• 1:08
  Me too. I'm going for that real Gammon.
• 1:11
  Look at the moment. It's been a little while since
• 1:13
  we touched upon Halloween apocalypse and War.
• 1:17
  The sontarans, isn't it? It has been a while.
• 1:19
  Yeah, last of, when we did that, I was up in the mountains,
• 1:22
  drinking, red, wine. Now I'm back in East London,
• 1:24
  drinking water and peppermint tea.
• 1:26
  So you know, different background.
• 1:28
  It's still very excited to be talking about Doctor Who I've
• 1:32
  heard a rumor. You know you've been hanging out
• 1:34
  with the first doctor. Nobody marbles dead.
• 1:39
  Yes, heart the Alva first box. I want to understand as well.
• 1:42
  Yeah, I'll start remember the name of the double from the
• 1:46
  reign of terror, but that's gone now like Gordon out foot or
• 1:49
  something like that. Hello, from the chase, Atman war
• 1:53
  memorial. There's a lot of first I find
• 1:55
  the seventh first off. Yes, I was lucky enough to work
• 1:59
  with David Bradley and when I was, I was the perfect,
• 2:04
  professional the entire sheet. And then once we finished, and
• 2:06
  once he'd wrapped, I was just like dating it I'm a big Doctor
• 2:10
  Who fan can I have a photo to which he said, turn the camera
• 2:14
  on and did the speech from Daleks invasion of Earth and
• 2:18
  just as the doctor because he's Northern in real life.
• 2:22
  And yeah, I put it on Twitter and so far it's had like 1,300
• 2:27
  likes and like 70,000 views, which is insane.
• 2:32
  There's a lot of people I'm sort of our life, you know.
• 2:36
  So if and you know that's what you and I met Dalek invasion
• 2:39
  Asian of Earth. That's very true.
• 2:40
  Yes. So we bonded over that and I
• 2:43
  didn't tell her, I didn't tell Bradley that because it's know
• 2:45
  what dollars inflation of Earth is.
• 2:47
  But if you want to see it, it's on my Twitter.
• 2:49
  It's him being the first doctor of me being slightly awkward
• 2:53
  next to him as he does his little speech, but it's
• 2:55
  fantastic. Honestly, you'll sign next to
• 2:58
  him laugh and your rid of you are having a great one of the
• 3:03
  people who was there at the time.
• 3:06
  He is somebody that I work with was like So you come into work,
• 3:10
  very serious. And, you know, I've seen you
• 3:11
  have quite heated debates, but for 10 seconds, you were
• 3:16
  giggling little Fanboy. And then he said, I was sat at
• 3:19
  my desk just with a big grin on my face for the rest of the day.
• 3:22
  I just cannot imagine you being sick.
• 3:25
  It's just, you know, every time I get to give you will just
• 3:28
  laugh at our is about our varied work.
• 3:33
  Always yeah, exactly. Exactly.
• 3:35
  And no one wants to talk about dr.
• 3:37
  Work person for some reason. Don't know what What?
• 3:40
  And I really have much more opportunities for but dogs, who
• 3:42
  is the sex worker? You know, high as well.
• 3:46
  But every now and again you drop a reference you know someone
• 3:50
  goes oh who is not on? See you know I've got a friend
• 3:55
  called Sam and me and Sam met through work and I was
• 3:59
  interviewing for him for a job and he I said so well, how did
• 4:03
  you get into film? And television is like, well it
• 4:04
  all started with a 1992 repeat of Genesis of the Daleks and I
• 4:09
  was In my mind, I was like, you've got the job and with
• 4:11
  those records we're like he could have been worse.
• 4:17
  Candidate. That was very good.
• 4:18
  He's very, very, very nice one. But yeah, he's really became a
• 4:23
  friend from the moment from that moment on.
• 4:26
  I was like, okay well go for drinks out of work and we went
• 4:29
  to a Doctor Who convention in Manchester together a few years
• 4:31
  ago. We used to do a doctor who pub
• 4:33
  quiz together as well with a nice chap.
• 4:36
  So I love Sam, if you're listening, he's probably you are
• 4:38
  listening. All right, just know that your
• 4:41
  love of Elisabeth, sladen is not the reason you have a career in
• 4:44
  television, all right, it's your talent, but it helped.
• 4:50
  Well, look, what we're here to talk about today.
• 4:53
  We're here to talk about flux part 3 of chapter 3 and they
• 4:57
  caught the call them chapters. I can't remember, it's one of
• 4:59
  those things, you know, with these long Seasons belie, trauma
• 5:02
  Time Lord. Which fans debate about over and
• 5:04
  over. Yeah.
• 5:06
  But it's anyway it's called Once Upon Time.
• 5:09
  Is a fantastic title. I think we're courting
• 5:14
  controversy here because I've got a strong feeling, you know
• 5:17
  that a lot of people think this is the weakest episode of the
• 5:21
  season and I'll tell you I was at the pandorica convention in
• 5:26
  Bristol the day this episode aired and five of us piled into
• 5:32
  somebody's bedroom, very promising.
• 5:36
  But as part of my overall thought I wouldn't touch a one
• 5:38
  of them. Oh God.
• 5:39
  No. So anyway, we watched it and
• 5:43
  sort of afterwards or sort of like I'm kind of my God wasn't
• 5:46
  that amazing, you know? And it was a deadly silence in
• 5:49
  the room. But then we went down to the
• 5:50
  atrium honest to God. It was like the queen had died
• 5:53
  for the first, then I realized just how out of Step I was, or
• 6:00
  at least with that crowd of dogs.
• 6:02
  Who fans? I don't see a lot of people
• 6:03
  there. Yeah, I mean I remember enjoying
• 6:07
  it over time. I remember enjoying the hell out
• 6:09
  of all the flux really and but and again going online and just
• 6:14
  being like wow the response to this is really kind of muted but
• 6:18
  I mean my opinion of it is only got better on this re-watch,
• 6:22
  like it's a fantastic episode and I think there's a lot to
• 6:26
  unpack and talk about and I think we're going to have a
• 6:30
  great time discussing yet. Sheba's says it himself.
• 6:33
  I remember in Interview. He said, I really wanted to take
• 6:37
  the opportunity to do a story that I could only do at this
• 6:40
  point in the season. Like this.
• 6:42
  This story could not take place in any other season at any other
• 6:46
  point. It's got a beeper after all that
• 6:49
  set up in the first two episodes has happened.
• 6:52
  And before, you know, the climax of the season is here and, you
• 6:56
  know, there's a lot a lot happening in here and for fans
• 7:01
  that don't like Exposition there is a lot of exposition.
• 7:04
  In this, what I love is visual. Yeah.
• 7:08
  Than, you know, I think chip is sort of default settings.
• 7:11
  Sometimes his tricks over explain.
• 7:14
  Well, as a lot of what's happening is, there's a sort of
• 7:17
  there's a voiceover but a lot of what is being shown to you is
• 7:21
  sort of creatively visual rather than yeah.
• 7:25
  I don't think it's full of uncomfortable Exposition or
• 7:28
  clumpy Exposition I think it all flows very naturally and I mean
• 7:32
  we'll discuss this more as we get into it.
• 7:34
  But if anybody says that Christian all can't do
• 7:37
  character, just show him show them this episode because it is
• 7:41
  full of character development, for all the regulars, and the
• 7:45
  new regulars as well. Like, we learned so much about
• 7:48
  all those characters. It's a really beautiful episode
• 7:51
  and of just learning who these people are.
• 7:54
  I think this is, you know, when sort of Warriors, gay came along
• 7:58
  and like ghost light in the 80s and people were saying, this is
• 8:00
  Doctor Who for like the video age where you've got to watch it
• 8:03
  a couple of times. As for it to make sense.
• 8:06
  I think on a first watch maybe this might be a little
• 8:08
  confusing. Yeah, you give it time and you
• 8:11
  focus on what's going on. I kind of small list it.
• 8:15
  If you would bear with me, just for one second because I wrote a
• 8:18
  little list, okay, of what this episode is covering, I'll try
• 8:23
  and be quick it made God. Okay I will.
• 8:30
  So will this is this is what this is what I wrote down as to
• 8:33
  what this coffers Because I'm gonna be a lot of people go.
• 8:36
  What was that about? I wasn't about March, it was
• 8:37
  just, you know, a lot of waffle and a lot of a to B but I
• 8:43
  figured it explains how the Maury ended up on time.
• 8:48
  Yes. He plays at the Roof Doctor.
• 8:49
  Took them their housewarming as you were originally defeated.
• 8:53
  So housewarmings on that planet in the Halloween apocalypse, how
• 8:57
  vendor ended up on station row. So it sets up how he got there
• 9:01
  in that first episode who've endured.
• 9:04
  Has been looking for and talking to throughout this whole thing.
• 9:09
  What the impacts of the flux is having on the universe which is
• 9:12
  sort of all the big Powers, the Daleks and the Cybermen as are
• 9:14
  vying for the planets that are left, introduces the ground,
• 9:20
  Serpent and Tech taehoon explains what passenger can do.
• 9:26
  It delves into calvinist as relationship with the doctor and
• 9:29
  establishes that that happened way, you know, back in the
• 9:32
  doctors past that she can't remember, You get to see the
• 9:36
  rooftops of working for division, so it's adding a load
• 9:39
  of backstory to her character and you learn that the flux is
• 9:43
  artificial and was created because of the doctor and that
• 9:47
  because of all of that the universe is effectively over.
• 9:50
  That's a lot for one episode and I don't think you've got it all
• 9:53
  there because you've got all the damn backstory stuff that down,
• 9:56
  and Diane, then you've got bail and vendors relationship.
• 9:59
  This is the proper introduction of bow.
• 10:00
  She's like, in a post-credits scene as and she on the last
• 10:04
  one. And about their life together
• 10:07
  and Beck their forthcoming child.
• 10:10
  There's just so much in their, it crams a lot in.
• 10:12
  And so the idea that it's somehow dull filler, just blows
• 10:17
  my mind and in the same breath, rather than just being a tick
• 10:21
  list, it does it in such an imaginative.
• 10:24
  Way, in having all the regulars, take on different sets of
• 10:28
  characters in different backstory.
• 10:30
  So it's like a performance piece as well.
• 10:33
  Anand it Froze, one brilliant like visual after another.
• 10:37
  There's some really good special effects in this as well.
• 10:39
  Yeah, absolutely. It's a stunning bit television.
• 10:45
  I thought we covered it. Right.
• 10:46
  Let's go. Let's go.
• 10:47
  We're done. That sort of thing, everyone.
• 10:49
  Well you're going to and watch the things, right?
• 10:52
  Let's watch the thing. You're going to count us in a
• 10:55
  while. Sorry, yeah.
• 10:56
  Well, it's just a quick sip of theodolite stay there in five or
• 11:01
  in re 21. Let's go.
• 11:08
  Okay, mine's not playing. I'll no sorry, it's fine, don't
• 11:13
  worry. I mean, I mean, okay, I'm just
• 11:16
  going to be like, yeah, he's picked it out.
• 11:18
  Yeah, don't you worry. So I love, I love the doctor who
• 11:23
  gets a recap. Now if we don't get that a lot,
• 11:25
  but again, it just feels like it's in the modern television
• 11:29
  landscape, which a lot of this. This episode really feels that
• 11:31
  while this story feels like, I just think we're suddenly in a
• 11:36
  series of Doctor, Who that It is competing with what the
• 11:39
  streamers are doing. Do you remember when torture
• 11:44
  children of Earth, came out across a week, how for a
• 11:49
  torturous season that built ratings throughout the week and
• 11:52
  and cats on the highest rating of the season?
• 11:56
  Do you think that would have helped with the flocks
• 11:59
  potentially? I think I do think is people
• 12:03
  watch TV in a different way now. And we talked about overnights
• 12:06
  and things like that but there are people that are going to
• 12:08
  watch flux For the First Time Forever.
• 12:11
  And that's fine, but so it's not really about those overnights or
• 12:16
  anything like that. It's simply just it's just there
• 12:20
  as a package that it exists. So people will binge it, no
• 12:24
  matter what, but I do think there's a world where we do get
• 12:27
  in, maybe even the specials. We getting them consecutively or
• 12:30
  nice to see you to see how that works.
• 12:32
  But I just think that live TV and experienced, it isn't really
• 12:35
  there anymore. What?
• 12:37
  It sort of cool. It's cool.
• 12:39
  No no. After you after you when I was
• 12:41
  going to say I just don't think it impact the success of the
• 12:44
  program anymore. When exactly.
• 12:47
  I've and whether that program will survive and yet we still
• 12:50
  got all this cancellation anxiety in our heads.
• 12:54
  It doesn't get 10 million viewers.
• 12:55
  Well, that's it, that is over, you know.
• 12:57
  Well Russell T Davies is talking and dwm about season the season
• 13:01
  in 2025 and writing episodes for that already.
• 13:04
  It's like it if Doctor Who got cancer.
• 13:07
  Sold tomorrow, it would be off air for a maximum of five years.
• 13:10
  We wouldn't have like 16 you it's too much of an important
• 13:13
  brand within a world where everybody wants IP.
• 13:16
  So it would just be our it would just take a bit of a reboot
• 13:20
  within a few years now, we've missed them but I want to talk a
• 13:23
  little bit about the CGI Daleks in this it was it won't go on
• 13:28
  about their to slim. Yeah it's weird but what is
• 13:31
  weird is you get the CGI? Daleks moving through the forest
• 13:34
  and then there's one shot where you sort of see one of Of them
• 13:37
  round the corner and it looks like it's a real problem, so I
• 13:40
  don't know. I wonder whether they shot it
• 13:42
  and then it was the footage of the Daleks was just too wobbly
• 13:46
  and so they went are we will just see G either in.
• 13:48
  But yeah, everybody says that they look weird but they don't
• 13:51
  know why dialects Jesus Christ. I mean, all right, fine, let's
• 13:55
  bring back the destiny of the Daleks ones, you know, they are
• 13:57
  all on people's legs hanging out.
• 13:59
  The bottom that are the Daleks contractually obliged to appear
• 14:04
  in every single season, they must be.
• 14:07
  Absolutely. So they're here and they're in
• 14:09
  the vanquishers, aren't they? Yeah.
• 14:11
  But they're just not feed. You like, chibnall saves his
• 14:13
  dialect stories from New Year's anyway, doesn't he doesn't like
• 14:16
  to do? I feel think?
• 14:18
  Yeah, because he's got other Tory's other stories are the
• 14:22
  stories he wants to sell in Doctor Who.
• 14:25
  So I like, I don't think he more Moffitt were particularly
• 14:29
  interested in the Daleks I think.
• 14:31
  Here are some bear though. Jim does meet you.
• 14:33
  I think Tibbers is interested in just making them fucking In
• 14:37
  bastards. Yeah, well, I think chip will
• 14:39
  recognizes that they get in the way of the Storyteller, because
• 14:42
  they've got to be your big bad if you use it in the season.
• 14:45
  So that's why he saves us for the specials, whereas, moffatt's
• 14:48
  always looking to do something else, but let's talk about
• 14:51
  Steven Moffat. I knew we were in for something,
• 14:54
  good ear, where they started, borrowing from Heaven.
• 14:56
  Sent because this sequence at the beginning here, where we're
• 14:59
  in a red as to how she very quickly.
• 15:01
  Reacts to this dangerous situation reminded me so much of
• 15:05
  Capaldi when he was flying. Ask Mike also go towards the
• 15:08
  Tardis. It's very similar stuff.
• 15:11
  I love this Vortex stuff that the relief sort of floating in
• 15:13
  time. It reminds me especially when
• 15:15
  the Weeping Angel shows up. It reminds me of that season 5
• 15:20
  trailer. The cinema trailer that they did
• 15:21
  for Matt Smith's versus season. Wow, we've come on a bit from
• 15:25
  Arc of infinity and we. Yeah but I mean our concern, if
• 15:29
  she obviously wasn't seen as that bad because the Moffett
• 15:33
  picked it as in the name of the doctor, the seemed that he was
• 15:36
  going to use to represent specific very odd choices.
• 15:42
  In that montage. Is it where Patrick trousers
• 15:45
  running across that Hawaiian beach and his fur coat.
• 15:56
  Oh, here we go, here we go. We're on a mission now is that
• 16:01
  the 13th Doctor is on a mission to get a handful of atropos.
• 16:06
  This is the first bit of televised.
• 16:07
  This is the first televised Doctor Who story sets before
• 16:11
  unearthly child, right? Except with the exception of
• 16:14
  that little snippet that we see in I suppose in listen, and the
• 16:21
  name of the doctor, you get a little bit.
• 16:23
  But this is the doctor on an adventure free.
• 16:26
  And actually child like if you have your say, Like sort of
• 16:30
  chronological then obviously you had all those clips from the
• 16:33
  Timeless children of. Yeah, I'm sure as a baby, but
• 16:36
  are you mean Ashley in an adventure?
• 16:38
  Yeah, we are in a pre unearthly child Adventure here and that's
• 16:44
  that's exciting. I don't think because they do it
• 16:46
  with these guys occasionally flashing to other people, but I
• 16:50
  do think, I think people underestimate that and also
• 16:52
  perhaps didn't quite get what was going on at the time.
• 16:55
  Now, I had a bit of a disagreement with My friend, Jr.
• 16:59
  South all of the strangers in space pod, cast on the little
• 17:03
  chain, like a little while till the beans because he said, but
• 17:08
  he thinks this episode is only like it is because of covid in
• 17:13
  the that's why they're all playing the same roles but I
• 17:16
  don't buy that. The reason I don't buy that is
• 17:18
  because there are guest characters in all the other
• 17:20
  episodes. So it's not like you'll bring
• 17:22
  you like what's the difference of bringing in say Joe Martin
• 17:26
  versus bringing in case Your ass or something like that.
• 17:30
  So I don't think it's because they're all in a little bubble
• 17:32
  just characters in this. You've got your as his sister
• 17:34
  back. Yeah.
• 17:37
  Yeah. No no.
• 17:39
  I think the reason why there's so much CGI.
• 17:41
  Yes. Me because of because they're
• 17:43
  doing a lot of in studio work because it allows much.
• 17:48
  But, you know, that means you get.
• 17:49
  It means you just get one stunning CGI Vista after
• 17:53
  another. Yeah.
• 17:54
  And they're all huge, aren't they?
• 17:55
  They're all on massive thinkers story, that visually He has the
• 17:59
  scale of that. In Doctor Who I think Steven
• 18:02
  Moffat, had a fair stab. You do in those pre-title
• 18:04
  sequence, is a used to do where I used to visit 15 locations.
• 18:08
  Yeah. Before those talk music is here.
• 18:11
  Well, I think in terms of sort of pulling off, huge epic
• 18:15
  Universe spanning Doctor Who this is as good as we've had so
• 18:19
  far. I think we may have bear to come
• 18:21
  because the budgets gonna go. Yeah, but it's the best-looking
• 18:26
  Doctor Who story has been. I love all this stuff with the
• 18:28
  Fast-forwarding of time that that's going on right now.
• 18:32
  And you see those those sort of I'm Volturi things flying in the
• 18:36
  air. Also we learn all about down in
• 18:37
  this. Damn, this failed marriage or
• 18:40
  hold down or out and well, you know, he's getting to live, you
• 18:43
  live Adventure Now, isn't it? You lost those the thingies in
• 18:47
  the air, a quarter Rising time so essentially they shouldn't be
• 18:51
  here, should they? So exactly it's a bit Father's
• 18:54
  day, isn't it? I called them the time vultures
• 18:56
  I could remember the record but they've just like a swarm of
• 18:58
  Whatever armor was, I think the Reapers in Father's Day.
• 19:02
  I mean, unfortunately, the CG, I've dated a lot now, it's scary
• 19:05
  idea, but this is just weird. And I love me.
• 19:07
  You know, it's interesting when I saw the Father's Day monsters
• 19:12
  when it first broadcast, I was like, wow, a doctor who can do
• 19:15
  proper CGI now? And I remember saying there was
• 19:17
  a clip of them on Jonathan Ross, just before the series aired and
• 19:22
  it's so weird to watching and go.
• 19:23
  Wow, that is some rupee CGI. But CGI.
• 19:27
  Just aches so badly. Anyway But I mean I remember
• 19:30
  this Lovin running through dentistry and CGI and I was like
• 19:33
  my God, those who will never be better than this.
• 19:36
  Yeah, there's a lovely shot in a second where die disappears and
• 19:40
  dance on his own in front of that.
• 19:42
  Massive p.m. at night. S is really quite creepy but it
• 19:47
  didn't even even here were out on location and those wide shots
• 19:50
  that they're selling their trying to make this world feel
• 19:53
  big. I think there's only really one
• 19:55
  episode which comes a bit later where you see See where I'm a
• 20:00
  bit like. Oh, you can tell this is shot
• 20:02
  and covid in terms of the framing of how people are
• 20:05
  standing and also just the lack of extras and last at last
• 20:09
  episode, or the last couple of episodes, I listened to the
• 20:13
  Chris chibnall interview on Radio free skaro that they did
• 20:17
  at the Doctor Who convention the circumstances under, which this
• 20:21
  season were made, you would not wish on your worst enemy.
• 20:25
  The fact that this is this good. Hmm, is out.
• 20:29
  Fucking miracle. Yeah, it's Christian triples.
• 20:32
  You said it was chaos. It was absolute chaos.
• 20:35
  Yeah. I love this bit of Jodie
• 20:38
  Whittaker in the car where she's been, and she's funny.
• 20:41
  She's so funny and I said, I think it really like that.
• 20:44
  Anyway, Yeah, I use the Angels well this season.
• 20:51
  Yeah, they use everything. Well, the sontarans are better
• 20:54
  than they've ever been the angels are great.
• 20:56
  Now, do you remember that? There was a location for to not
• 21:00
  location but pictures of the the Angels around this time and
• 21:05
  everybody was going on. No it's not it's not that, it's
• 21:07
  not for that it's like a promo for an adventure game or
• 21:10
  something like that. And it was only I think it's the
• 21:13
  beach stuff later on that you finally see Jodi face and offer
• 21:16
  one and everyone was like the angels are back.
• 21:18
  Back at Steven Moffat, announced it on Twitter and then had to
• 21:21
  take it down because they did you wash it off?
• 21:23
  I love the fact that it's chippers went crazy than this
• 21:26
  do. All these things with vendors
• 21:32
  backstory off your, these are worthy of an episode.
• 21:36
  Yeah, they are. And also, it all looks very
• 21:39
  Phantom Menace. Enter the little world, there
• 21:42
  are on, and it's a really cool moment.
• 21:46
  And it's just, it's just another sprinkling of I widen Basta
• 21:50
  stories and I think everybody sort of acknowledges that man.
• 21:53
  It guilt is a great actress but she really gets the show.
• 21:56
  I chop suspect, I love her in this role.
• 21:58
  Yeah, she's supposed to be sort of this or grizzled angry a bit
• 22:03
  scared, isn't she? I've not seen one that Gillan
• 22:09
  anything else and I don't know what she wants.
• 22:11
  She's gone on to do but I would love to say I think I'd love to
• 22:14
  see her in something. I think she's got a great future
• 22:16
  ahead of her why'd you know I don't I think she's done some
• 22:19
  good things in this season. Already our finger the last
• 22:22
  three episodes give her best material.
• 22:24
  So yeah you've got the best to kind of look at that shot.
• 22:27
  There of that room. I don't wear.
• 22:30
  That is sure without a Spillers they get good value out of the
• 22:37
  locations here. There was a point during the
• 22:40
  Moffett era and the RTD are aware.
• 22:42
  You were just starting to recognize bits of Cardiff again
• 22:45
  and again. And again if we go back to that
• 22:47
  Temple, a bloody piece one more time.
• 22:51
  Yeah, I mean I when was the last time we saw that, I feel like it
• 22:54
  was season 7 but it was in every fucking season for ages.
• 22:57
  And those corridors, we got to the one, you know, with the
• 23:00
  solar has doing the debasing and then raising chamber.
• 23:03
  I said, I sat fucking marble game Yeah I feel like a cross
• 23:09
  shape. It was Era they just gone out of
• 23:10
  their way like we said it is takes you away and in Punjab to
• 23:14
  give it sort of different visual tones like fresh a fresh visual
• 23:18
  look. There's a brilliant thing that
• 23:22
  Jodie Whittaker says about playing The Roof Doctor and it
• 23:26
  wasn't until I heard a say I really watched our performers.
• 23:29
  So as the doctor she describes herself as sort of hunching a
• 23:32
  bit and she's very animated with her hands.
• 23:36
  She's a bit sort of slouchy and a bit relaxed.
• 23:39
  Whereas as the Roof Doctor, she's straight back.
• 23:43
  Wow, no dialogue in a very sort of sensible way and you can
• 23:48
  really set an internal War. I was watching her and I was And
• 23:51
  I could have done with a bit more with this actually, because
• 23:53
  she's got real presence when she walks in a bit.
• 23:56
  And starts, you know, screaming it's almond as you as she's
• 23:59
  walking through the corridors, Now, do you think this episode
• 24:04
  would have either been a better or better received from fans?
• 24:09
  If it was done with the Ruth doctor rather than Jody or, and
• 24:14
  Jody's floating around a bit birthday full, it, they fall on
• 24:17
  went in with Ruth and carbon Esther, I think better received
• 24:21
  because I think the Roof Doctor is really popular and I think
• 24:24
  she probably did deserve a whole episode.
• 24:27
  She did, I mean, I might, I can't remember that.
• 24:31
  I said this on, Last podcast, but I the concept of the Roof
• 24:35
  Doctor. I really like, Joe Martin.
• 24:39
  This isn't like a criticism of her.
• 24:41
  But in her 11 minutes screen time, I don't get enough from
• 24:44
  her to go. That's the sort of person I want
• 24:46
  to be playing the doctor and get it as a functional bit of Pop
• 24:50
  point and it gets very important people to, you know, see
• 24:52
  themselves represented on screen.
• 24:54
  But I don't get big doctory energy from her go to an episode
• 25:00
  of her. I think probably It would have
• 25:02
  been enough to sell me on but she's she gets a letter minutes
• 25:05
  overtime. Hey NASA, he isn't it?
• 25:07
  It's just a live, a minute. And yeah, and I yeah and and
• 25:10
  they're all sort of important moments, we're not getting any
• 25:13
  of the fun. We're not getting her their
• 25:15
  companions or any of that stuff that we love, you know.
• 25:19
  Like in The Day of the Doctor John Hurt gets a good 60
• 25:23
  Minutes, you know of like enough dr.
• 25:25
  Ish moments where? As the TV movie?
• 25:27
  Paul McGann gets at least 50 minutes.
• 25:29
  Yeah. So I yeah, I think it's not, I'm
• 25:36
  not saying she's not a good doctor.
• 25:37
  I'm just saying, I would like more of her in order to assess
• 25:40
  her performance and I'll be interested to see what big
• 25:44
  finish do with her. But, you know, maybe one day
• 25:46
  she'll get a spin-off, who knows?
• 25:49
  But I think as like a performance space, this this
• 25:52
  test Jodi in a way that is the show dozen.
• 25:56
  I really like that. I'm especially like the bit of
• 25:58
  the end where she's desperate for the Action about our past
• 26:02
  and she's screaming at the yeah, multiple of the time, people
• 26:05
  called ladies the Mauri Mauri. Yeah, whatever.
• 26:10
  Sorry Maria. Now I was having a quick look at
• 26:15
  the internet and I didn't realize there was a much like it
• 26:19
  takes you away. There is an alien race that out
• 26:22
  of this, there was it an alien race that has pictures of the
• 26:26
  masks and they were called The Masked ravager guards and they
• 26:29
  were supposed to be in the temple of actual place.
• 26:32
  It's a favorite shot of of throwing away money in this era.
• 26:35
  That one day, I'm sure all those scenes will show up somewhere
• 26:41
  and we'll find out where they are.
• 26:43
  I'm guessing I didn't choose it because I probably would include
• 26:46
  it on the DVD if they had, right?
• 26:48
  No. Apparently there were cut in the
• 26:50
  final edit supporting to Tardis dot fandom.com.
• 26:55
  What do we think of the Ruth doctors outfit?
• 26:58
  I like it. I don't love the shirt, but I
• 27:02
  like, I like the suits again, I'm not trying to be so Jay and
• 27:07
  tear proof and I say this as someone who wears a lot of loud
• 27:10
  shirts. But sir, I mean I mean, I think
• 27:15
  Jeremiah is great but you're right.
• 27:18
  I am not getting enough for me to really have a strong opinion.
• 27:22
  And these people that say, you know, are she's the best.
• 27:24
  She's way better than Jodie, Whittaker.
• 27:26
  I have possibly say that. I work with Joe Martin.
• 27:30
  Before she was the doctor on a thing called Blue story.
• 27:33
  She was a very nice lady. I have no idea, whether she'd
• 27:35
  ever remember me, but I've certainly met her didn't get
• 27:39
  self because she wasn't Doctor Who then I certainly thought she
• 27:42
  gave a great town in fugitive of the judoon know throughout.
• 27:45
  Well she's I mean she's great in that but it's it's Ruth for most
• 27:49
  of it and then it's only it's only again, those last sort of
• 27:53
  five or six minutes where she's suddenly the doctor and it's a
• 27:56
  great reveal and it's a group. She's a Sort of impetus for the
• 28:00
  Arc of the width of the last two seasons of Whitaker.
• 28:04
  But I just, I just wanted a bit more of a, what I really love
• 28:08
  about. Exploring the Roof Doctor is
• 28:12
  that obviously, he's created a whole season with a whole, new
• 28:15
  group of regular characters. Yeah, a whole new situation with
• 28:19
  the flags, but from the first episode, like she's after
• 28:22
  calvinistic because he used to work for the division.
• 28:25
  So he threads this thing that he's Shhhhht in his second
• 28:29
  season as as showrunner throughout the flocks and it
• 28:33
  actually pays off in survivors of the flocks.
• 28:35
  It pays off brilliantly in fact and in the vanquishers as well.
• 28:38
  Yeah, absolutely does. But it's also it's that Arc.
• 28:42
  Isn't it? Of season 7 a 7, a 7 because of
• 28:47
  this whole Doctor Who and the doctor's name and it's the same
• 28:51
  thing but it's just for me it's executed better.
• 28:54
  But I just think for some reason a lot of fans for the sort of
• 28:57
  Moffat version of It's which I liked but it's not so on the
• 29:01
  nose and having to get people go, dr.
• 29:03
  Hall the time. God don't get me started on
• 29:06
  that. Jesus Christ.
• 29:09
  Ram, it down your throat and I'm used to my bit of that.
• 29:12
  Yeah, it was it I was watching Time of the Doctor at Christmas
• 29:15
  and it was that moment of where there's just a voice that comes
• 29:19
  through random ago. Dr. Hall dr.
• 29:22
  Hall, that's not even a good voice.
• 29:25
  It's terrible and I see it makes a bit of Mockery of the, the
• 29:29
  title of the show, we've been watching all this time, guys
• 29:32
  play teachers, when you say out loud in it, but the chart what I
• 29:36
  love is is we get all of these enticing glimpses into the past,
• 29:41
  you know, fighting with Intergalactic despots, life's
• 29:43
  for manager, this is all this exciting stuff.
• 29:46
  She got up to back in the day that she can't remember.
• 29:49
  And then she sort of comes to the conclusion after spending
• 29:52
  the last episode, with two other versions of herself that she's
• 29:55
  rather fabulous and goes out there, this watched, you know
• 29:58
  what? Fuck.
• 29:58
  Yeah, that's great. I'm like, not like who I am.
• 30:03
  Who cares, who I was. Yeah, I'll so I just I did we
• 30:06
  just don't need those answers. I love this Fleet of this Army
• 30:10
  of Cybermen, in the Cyber sector and that red planet.
• 30:13
  It's just like it's lightning red brass.
• 30:16
  Yeah, it's for its, that is little things that such a tiny
• 30:20
  little touch but it just makes it feel alien in a way that, you
• 30:24
  know, it would have just been a quarry in other Seasons like,
• 30:27
  they're always In this season and I think in this era trying
• 30:31
  to push for the most diverse settings as possible.
• 30:37
  Like from, you know from Praxis to we've talked about demons of
• 30:42
  the Punjab and we talked about it takes you away every world
• 30:45
  that they visit has to be unique and that world could just be
• 30:50
  Norway or it can be this planet, this tiny little planet of know
• 30:55
  what point sort of consequence at all.
• 30:58
  And it's just looks fantastic. We've gone there from that
• 31:01
  fabulous, shot of this camera. Sort of going up over the grass,
• 31:04
  showing the mountains and the space.
• 31:06
  In the distance to the end to this the grand serpent wherever
• 31:10
  this huge space station establishing.
• 31:14
  Sure. Just Lemme finish over look like
• 31:16
  this before me said now the grand serpent.
• 31:20
  Yes, I'll go. Let's get talking about him.
• 31:24
  I want to fuck him. The G serpent is what I call my
• 31:27
  penis, but you do now I heard from a friend who was not
• 31:39
  working on this season of Doctor Who or didn't work on any of the
• 31:42
  typical Doctor Who but knows enough people.
• 31:45
  And he said that, while it was not hot for plot, the grand
• 31:50
  serpent wasn't originally in this but Chris North was
• 31:54
  originally in it who mr. Big the episode after it was
• 32:00
  canceled so you can be anymore. Yeah so I mean the guy Guy who
• 32:04
  told me he even said, he may have even potentially recorded
• 32:08
  started. Recording some scenes for.
• 32:10
  I don't know how true it is but and it wouldn't be a straight
• 32:13
  swap because obviously, this guy's it was space.
• 32:16
  But I was told that he was not a direct replacement, but a
• 32:22
  reworking of the the Christian off Karen.
• 32:25
  Hang clearly, not for supposed to be back like the open-ended
• 32:30
  revolution of the Daleks not giving him an ending.
• 32:34
  And the reason we know why they're on poor Christian I'll
• 32:36
  just picture the scene, okay? He's dealing with covid,
• 32:39
  regulations left, right and Center, you know, he's having to
• 32:42
  condense this 10 episode season into six parts.
• 32:45
  And then he's written a load of great stuff for Chris North and
• 32:48
  then Twitter pops up Christophe canceled.
• 32:51
  I'll fight, he's already out of a Barrowman, you know, yeah,
• 32:55
  don't win. No.
• 32:58
  I said tomorrow, I said after Phillips, go for a lot of it is
• 33:01
  only part of my childhood. You know, there is lighter.
• 33:04
  Did imagine what Gordon the Gopher got up to.
• 33:06
  Oh, I dropped the thing as all brush.
• 33:09
  Put it away when operation usually happens in the back of
• 33:14
  my mind. I remember thinking, please
• 33:15
  don't let one of the Doctor Who's yeah, plays that we've
• 33:19
  been quite lucky in that respect.
• 33:21
  I wear my special brushes. Phrase was boom, boom, no one
• 33:25
  here. Now, did we talked last time
• 33:29
  about the possibility of Jack being in this?
• 33:33
  I think we did a little just a little just there was a tie-in
• 33:36
  comic, wasn't there, that was cancelled to flux featuring
• 33:39
  Captain Jack, they finish up with the O's that were recorded
• 33:42
  as well but they wouldn't directly tie into it.
• 33:45
  But I wonder whether the comic the tied into flocks featuring
• 33:48
  Jack whether that was actually because Jack wasn't in the
• 33:52
  series. But I think if Jack was ever
• 33:57
  supposed to be in there than it would be in the Kate Stewart
• 33:59
  role rather than rather than live in the role which I do, I
• 34:02
  just don't think is a like-for-like replacement
• 34:05
  because you could see that whole thing of unit being set up.
• 34:08
  And I can't quite remember the exact plot details but you know,
• 34:12
  the influence of the ground serpent on on unit could just as
• 34:17
  easily have been tortured. Yeah.
• 34:19
  Oh my god. Wow, I love it.
• 34:21
  You know if Chris North had been responsible Ball Four tortured
• 34:24
  him for out the same. These are the keys.
• 34:27
  Yeah, imagine him getting that seaweed coach Stewart.
• 34:31
  He proved a better life into Jemma Redgrave.
• 34:33
  If anyone could then I do, I think, you know, I do love the
• 34:40
  character. It's a great character.
• 34:43
  He's like the 110. Until swore manager came along,
• 34:46
  he was like, the one big cat villain that we'd ask, he was
• 34:49
  great. I love all the stuff here with
• 34:52
  the angels. Computer games is lost.
• 34:54
  I was just about to say, you know, you're not people say
• 34:56
  about sort of a Steven Moffat script.
• 34:57
  Oh yeah, he feels it packs. It full of ideas that could have
• 35:00
  been a whole episode. I think there's a lot of that
• 35:02
  going on here as well, and that idea the Angels inside a
• 35:06
  computer game that come out and kill kids.
• 35:08
  Yeah, a whole episode of Doctor Who I'm surprised the Doctor Who
• 35:13
  has steered away from computer games, like the own so far, so
• 35:18
  far. But the only time it was ever
• 35:20
  sort of mooted was the abandoned season 23.
• 35:23
  Three with the celestial toymaker but like it just seems
• 35:26
  such an obvious thing to do. You just really surprises me
• 35:29
  that it's not been done. I just sing the art Direction
• 35:33
  and let's say the set as well with them next to that.
• 35:37
  I mean it's just a redress isn't it of there?
• 35:40
  But with that fabulous thing on the wall which looks like sort
• 35:43
  of blue light is or dripping down the rock.
• 35:46
  Yeah, it's amazing. And obviously we've got the old
• 35:51
  version of swarming as a. Do, you know what, going back to
• 35:56
  people, not liking this, I can imagine.
• 35:59
  If you're sort of Doctor Who that you love in the new series
• 36:02
  is that sort of very grounded. Russell T Davies is sort of our
• 36:08
  last a that that sort of Doctor Who I can.
• 36:11
  Imagine this very dense storytelling with all of these
• 36:14
  science fiction, elements all the thought of explanation and
• 36:18
  the Very is very Of SF heavy. Yeah, I could understand that
• 36:22
  you began. Really.
• 36:25
  I can't penetrate this. Yeah, but I also I think there's
• 36:28
  a lot of Doctor Who fans we were.
• 36:33
  We talked about the viewing landscape changing and every
• 36:36
  other show. And on the time that she doing
• 36:38
  flux at the moment and they said this the other day, every other
• 36:42
  show is, is this episodic format of you have to pay attention and
• 36:47
  you have to tune in every week or binges, It and I think, you
• 36:52
  know, viewers are used to that be them.
• 36:55
  Doctor Who fans, or casual fans or casual viewers.
• 36:58
  Like I for one want to show that keeps me coming back every week,
• 37:02
  pick with the, I did with plot points like this.
• 37:05
  I'm actually a little bit over the sort of the classic format
• 37:08
  of Doctor Who, and although we don't know much about the next
• 37:11
  season, I'm a little bit sad, but perhaps it appears to be
• 37:14
  back to sort of, you know, ones and two parters.
• 37:18
  I, yeah. I Thank you all extremely small
• 37:21
  bloke, although I read your book, I know you're a small
• 37:24
  bloke, you know, kind of you. But like Mom rauf he likes a
• 37:28
  very simple linear plot so to him, this is just a No-No, you
• 37:34
  know, he likes planet of the Daleks and the Android invasion,
• 37:37
  you know, that that's a particular type of doctor.
• 37:42
  Who isn't it? You know, one danger after
• 37:44
  another. I mean, I saw somebody on the
• 37:46
  internet today. Slacking off.
• 37:47
  Russell T Davies as a writer and Going.
• 37:49
  He doesn't understand character. He crams too much in his scripts
• 37:53
  and there are sort of checked his Twitter and everything he
• 37:57
  likes is from the 1970s, which is fine, you're allowed to do
• 38:01
  that. But if you want your favorite TV
• 38:03
  show to survive, it has to keep up with the times.
• 38:05
  And so you won't, it's not always going to be for you.
• 38:09
  And I just think there's nothing wrong with wanting that sort of
• 38:13
  style of Television, but you have to understand the landscape
• 38:17
  within which exists Say whatever you want about Ossie Davis do
• 38:21
  not say he doesn't understand carrots on of all the
• 38:25
  criticisms. I think he's one of the best
• 38:26
  character writers on in television tomato and I mean the
• 38:31
  guy was basically being a bit of a troll but as a lot of them
• 38:35
  about, you know. Yeah.
• 38:36
  Exactly. And it's like, you know, when
• 38:39
  you hear people going oh yeah, bring bring back Philip
• 38:43
  Hinchcliffe and make it like it used to be it's like no one's
• 38:46
  got your like that but nobody else is going to like, They're
• 38:49
  take all the women out. Come on, let's make everything a
• 38:56
  Gothic horror Pastiche. You know, it's like Gothic,
• 39:00
  horror pastiches. Haven't haven't been involved
• 39:02
  for a very long time. I do Wonder.
• 39:05
  Excuse me, we're doing villager the Angels next.
• 39:08
  All right, I do wonder if we end up with a plethora of Doctor Who
• 39:14
  spin-off, whether there will be something that is more, you
• 39:18
  know, I'm thinking. Could Mark Gatiss written.
• 39:21
  Like I would have as you presume that you would be thinking of
• 39:26
  like a Paul McGann series or something like that.
• 39:28
  But it's a what they've done with Star Trek where they've had
• 39:30
  their now. They've got the opportunity,
• 39:31
  you've got a comedy show, a kid show Arc, heavy show a character
• 39:38
  heavy shit like they're catering for every type of Star Trek fan
• 39:41
  which this is so clever. I really like this because it's
• 39:45
  the first time we find out that Juror can contain is basically
• 39:52
  like a tardis, isn't it? You can contain vast spaces
• 39:55
  inside. It's not a lot of people inside
• 39:57
  them. So I think I said I made that
• 39:59
  joke. Last time still back bar, it's
• 40:05
  not only a clever moment here because it's kind of just been
• 40:08
  in the background sort of just standing alongside a know, who
• 40:11
  the hell is that. Wearing that mask, you can get
• 40:13
  off eBay, you know, but I see that's the resolution of the
• 40:18
  entire season old. Isn't it?
• 40:20
  Yes. Passenger contact walk on.
• 40:22
  What is now? I can't.
• 40:23
  I can't remember what happened. Oh, that's fun.
• 40:26
  But yeah, I know. Passengers heavy on the climax
• 40:31
  that mask of course. He is.
• 40:34
  Now I fucking love Bell. I said she's an absolute badass.
• 40:38
  I think I've heard a shot but mostly her positive things about
• 40:41
  Bell from everybody. She's a great character played
• 40:46
  incredibly well as a great storyline.
• 40:49
  It's A very simple storyline. But just answer, you know, a bit
• 40:51
  more to the vinegar character. Now, you talk about spin-offs.
• 40:55
  I would have Ellen vendor spin-off of the investor and car
• 40:59
  for mr. I would sit down and watch that
• 41:02
  all day. What I've heard criticism from
• 41:05
  somebody, I respect a great deal because I do another podcast
• 41:08
  with him that I don't know. What was the point of those two
• 41:10
  characters? They were just introduced and
• 41:11
  then they just go off at the end.
• 41:13
  The whole point of them was, is this supposed to be a love story
• 41:16
  taking part during this mad? Universe spanning catastrophe of
• 41:22
  two people, sort of navigating that and trying to find their
• 41:25
  way back to each other. And then at the end going off
• 41:27
  and having great adventures. It gives some heart to the
• 41:30
  bloody thing. Absolutely.
• 41:32
  And yeah. I think they're, they are like,
• 41:34
  they're almost along with damn, the relatable figures because at
• 41:37
  this point Jody and man, dip, they've been traveling together
• 41:41
  for so long that the character of your as becomes less
• 41:45
  relatable in a way, not that's not a criticism.
• 41:47
  But she is, you know, she's got A bit of that rosed in series 2
• 41:51
  and Clara and series 8 energy, and Lord series 9 of just being,
• 41:55
  you know, the doctor and the companion are a duo in survivors
• 41:59
  of the flux when Jodie Whittaker is off doing a moonlit Fleet
• 42:02
  with Barbara Flynn as is the doctor in that is Pharrell.
• 42:08
  Yeah, she absolutely absolutely with two amazing companions.
• 42:11
  My are so yeah, I mean Jericho obviously shows up in the next
• 42:16
  episode but he is a fantastic addition.
• 42:19
  To the cast. I really like this conversation
• 42:22
  with the Cybermen as well. I don't usually like sideman
• 42:24
  dialogue is very functional. Yeah.
• 42:28
  I'm General. Look how far we've come.
• 42:30
  You just wouldn't have a scene like this in like 60s or 70s.
• 42:35
  Doctor Who she cast. Woman destroying a load of
• 42:38
  Cybermen. I'm basically saying, you know
• 42:40
  what, I've got a heart as well, and that's why we're going to
• 42:44
  win. And she's still doing it all
• 42:46
  while she's pregnant. Yeah, that's great.
• 42:50
  I love it. Yeah, she's a fantastic
• 42:53
  character and I just, I love, I love that Cyberman teardrop.
• 42:58
  That they, they've just retained on the masks for the entire
• 43:02
  time. Because when they are having
• 43:03
  conversations like this, it seems a lot more poignant and
• 43:07
  what she says here as well. Like it's you the dollar sign
• 43:11
  men sometimes like fighting over the spoils of what's left of the
• 43:14
  universe and then ultimately you're all going to fight each
• 43:17
  other and then when it's just you you're going to fight each
• 43:20
  other. And what is the fucking point?
• 43:22
  In. Yeah.
• 43:22
  Yeah which is kind of a criticism that you can level up
• 43:26
  most of most of Doctor Who's big bags?
• 43:30
  Is that? Like you just want to destroy
• 43:32
  the universe or the convert everybody and then what?
• 43:35
  When it's you can see what happens.
• 43:52
  Sorry / piss-take Blossom for a doctor who story, but done with
• 43:55
  such bravado that you don't care.
• 43:59
  You just have to leave a little flag.
• 44:01
  That said davros did it or something like that.
• 44:04
  I'm always he couldn't blow. He was the one that destroyed
• 44:07
  everything. Yeah.
• 44:09
  But actually it may be that is the one plot that does make
• 44:11
  sense. And with all these, you know,
• 44:14
  desperate villains like yeah, he wants to destroy thing because
• 44:16
  ultimately that's what they'll want to do.
• 44:17
  Least he's honest about it. Absolutely.
• 44:20
  Oh now look the this is that same establishing shot.
• 44:24
  We had earlier of this space station.
• 44:26
  Where is the ground surface? Having is me and I'll bury.
• 44:28
  Let's did say don't repeat a special effects shot because it
• 44:31
  gives people time to study it a little bit and figure out how
• 44:35
  you did it, but Ashley is so impressive.
• 44:37
  It don't matter. I love the sector creation here
• 44:42
  and the last that's exactly what I was going to say.
• 44:45
  Just it's giving it that extra Edge.
• 44:48
  Like we talked about feeling like Star Wars like when Vin de
• 44:52
  was on the planet with Mandy button.
• 44:55
  Here it you know again it's got that Star Wars Edge to it.
• 44:58
  It's like it feels like a like a tangible alien world like just
• 45:05
  the fact that the recording device is just some needlessly
• 45:07
  pointless, I find it. When you could just press record
• 45:12
  on your phone and it just just add two different element to
• 45:17
  sell in this world. I think, I guess.
• 45:19
  So even greater levels and survivors of the flux when we're
• 45:22
  trying to establish that the yeas has been to all these parts
• 45:25
  of the globe and we'll just unlock a Marketplace and it's
• 45:28
  lit. So amazingly well and does and
• 45:31
  dressed brilliantly. Yeah, yeah.
• 45:34
  But they're putting some real thought into this like back in
• 45:37
  the day in the, you know, 80 stop to this.
• 45:39
  This would be a terribly functional white-walled room.
• 45:41
  Yeah, the green sofa. Yeah, the lands of Rassilon.
• 45:45
  Although, you know, the sets of time lash or something like
• 45:47
  that, the even this sofa become servants at on, I know, that's
• 45:52
  such a weird thing to say, but it's just looks like a design.
• 45:55
  You don't see all the makeup, on those people's faces sort of
• 46:00
  gold makeup. Yeah, suggest that they're
• 46:03
  royalty. And you know, what's the fellas
• 46:05
  name? A place to grow and serve them.
• 46:08
  You know what? I don't know, but I think he has
• 46:10
  a real intensity. So his performance, you know,
• 46:14
  I've known men like this, you know, and they're bloody scary.
• 46:18
  But you just feel as if you know, we're in a harbor, you
• 46:20
  could be dead. It's Kraig Parkinson.
• 46:23
  He's terrific and yet you see him on me.
• 46:25
  And the interviews is a big camp and he's absolutely area sits.
• 46:30
  He's a great addition and I think he's also what this is
• 46:34
  because if the Swarm and cuts the Swarm in his ear, here you
• 46:38
  don't Don't he's another great villain that had.
• 46:41
  He been not in this story in the uterine somewhere else.
• 46:44
  You'd about. That's a fucking fantastic
• 46:46
  villain, but he's kind of overshadowed a little bit by the
• 46:49
  fabulous, ravages, but I think he gets, he gets his day in the
• 46:54
  sun, in survivors of the flocks where he gets most of his
• 46:58
  material. And then you write in the
• 47:00
  vanquishes, he's in a couple of scenes, good scenes, and he gets
• 47:03
  a decent pay off as well, but yeah.
• 47:06
  Like you almost feel like he deserved a whole episode where
• 47:08
  he was. Does he look?
• 47:10
  He gets left on a rock doesn't have a bit like the master and
• 47:13
  the power of the doctor. Yeah.
• 47:16
  She probably used to show Runners reusing element the same
• 47:19
  elements again and again. And I don't think, I don't think
• 47:23
  chibnall is as guilty of it as as marketers, but there are
• 47:27
  certain things even like the flickering of the doctor and
• 47:29
  this is that it is a bit like that the projected version of
• 47:33
  herself and power of the doctor that's, you know, currents into
• 47:37
  whichever 80s pensioners. A companion is in the sea.
• 47:43
  I'm not slighting those things. Are those are two Some of my
• 47:45
  favorite scenes and dr. Hood style get this.
• 47:49
  This is really Muffy as if Moffat created the non linear
• 47:53
  plot horse. He didn't.
• 47:55
  He just did it so much that when it comes to Doctor Who that sort
• 47:59
  of like his blueprint. But all of this, all of this
• 48:01
  stuff in this episode, which is explaining a ton of stuff in the
• 48:05
  Halloween apocalypse. Yeah, really love that but
• 48:09
  because it's not all tied up at the end of an episode.
• 48:13
  I think that's why fans feel like they're Not getting answers
• 48:16
  when actually the your you're being hit with as many answers
• 48:19
  and new questions. Again again and again again
• 48:23
  Grant these things are except I can see why some people would
• 48:26
  feel like it hasn't resolved but and like spoilers for the
• 48:30
  vanquishes which I do really like Why I think potentially
• 48:34
  it's the week's episode of the season.
• 48:36
  I think it's furiously paste and full of explanations because he
• 48:40
  has done so much set up at that point because I'll take
• 48:43
  everything off. Yeah, I just think that the
• 48:46
  thing is the resolutions are never particularly great in
• 48:50
  Doctor, Who Jai what I did a ranking earlier of, you know, I
• 48:54
  did all the ranking of the Season openers which was easy
• 48:57
  because they always amazing, most of them really good.
• 48:59
  Then I did a ranking of the season finales and Honestly, the
• 49:03
  bottom 8 of 13. Well, I don't like any of them.
• 49:07
  Yeah, it's just so hard to tie everything up and reset things,
• 49:13
  especially when it's like destruction on a universal
• 49:16
  scale, in a satisfactory way that people are going to.
• 49:19
  Like, I do, I would love there to be a smaller finale.
• 49:23
  One day, that just doesn't have any of those elements and see,
• 49:26
  see how things work out. But I just think it's nature of
• 49:28
  modern television that we're just not going to see that I
• 49:31
  shall my doctor. You a question and I'm going to
• 49:34
  ask you it now with the flux boy, am I going to ask you in
• 49:39
  season six when we do The Impossible Astronaut a day of
• 49:42
  the Moon? Should you promise and be as
• 49:47
  ambitious as this if you cannot satisfactorily pay a thing off?
• 49:55
  Yes you should. I think it's fine because we all
• 50:00
  know that doctor who always Italy ends with a reset.
• 50:05
  Yeah, that's true. Yeah there is I cannot think of
• 50:08
  a point where a doctor who has permanently changed.
• 50:12
  I think that's but maybe at the end of the war games, where all
• 50:15
  of a sudden, you know who he who he is or more about him.
• 50:19
  But every other big climax just it's a reset.
• 50:25
  I'll my God. Is she is Barbara Flynn?
• 50:29
  Who are still, remember us crackers wife back in the day.
• 50:32
  Seems amazing in that nice. And that and she is amazing here
• 50:37
  and it's it's a fantastic like again, because she's not going,
• 50:42
  I'm a Time Lord, I'm wearing a robe.
• 50:44
  I think, Doctor, Who found her just like, well, she's under use
• 50:47
  whatever because they want it sort of painted, you know, they
• 50:50
  want it all handed to them, but what we're seeing here is part
• 50:54
  of the doctors Origins. We're seeing basically the
• 50:58
  original time lady and it's like, this is deep Gallifreyan
• 51:01
  law, but it sells it. In an accessible way to people
• 51:05
  who are turned off by the idea of men in big robes and I always
• 51:10
  feel like I think Jodie Whittaker is a great actress.
• 51:12
  But I feel like when she's butting heads with a great
• 51:16
  actress, Charisse is a game even more.
• 51:19
  And these two especially in survivors of the flocks.
• 51:22
  Yeah, I've seen sigh just gum and and you know, I've had
• 51:25
  people going out there just spouting a load of sci-fi.
• 51:28
  Exposition, this is fucking Doctor Who we've been put up
• 51:31
  with sci-fi Exposition now For 60 years, you know?
• 51:36
  Yeah. What what do you want through
• 51:40
  what you want? And that I love the plot point
• 51:44
  that the universe is ending because of the doctor which is
• 51:47
  something that I think could be explored more in the show like
• 51:52
  the doctor's effects on flying throughout time and space and
• 51:55
  righting Wrongs. We talked about not interfering
• 51:58
  with history. That's all she ever does.
• 52:00
  So he ever does and so essentially, let me see if I've
• 52:03
  got this straight, I wasn't paying attention, the flux has
• 52:06
  been created. To destroy the universe because
• 52:09
  the doctor has done so much damage.
• 52:11
  Yeah, exactly. Which is such a great concept, a
• 52:14
  huge idea. In fact, that's an idea that I
• 52:17
  feel as if they may have gone into a little bit more.
• 52:20
  As far as the doctors concerned it terms of sort of some more
• 52:24
  release a bit like the scene in episode 10 in the war games of
• 52:27
  saying, oh fuck off. I've had a lot of good, you
• 52:30
  know. All right, it didn't work out so
• 52:33
  well for the vervoids but I did a lot of good.
• 52:37
  It's true and I think it's this huge concept and I can't believe
• 52:42
  that I'm surprised Doctor Who fans in pick up on that more,
• 52:46
  but they're too worried about them being too many.
• 52:49
  Unresolved plot points Doctor Who fans were already worried
• 52:52
  about how the finale was going to wrap things up on this by
• 52:55
  this point and it's like just enjoy the right.
• 52:58
  I don't know, sir, I think I think the bulk of Doctor Who
• 53:00
  fans go start. Press play worried.
• 53:04
  Yeah. And that's not a great way to
• 53:05
  start our go going. Okay?
• 53:07
  What Do you got? Let's do it.
• 53:09
  You know. Yeah I mean go back to Barbara
• 53:13
  Flynn for a second. He plays that role as if she's
• 53:16
  been in that skin that character for years and years there's no
• 53:21
  hint that she's just picked up the script alert here that you
• 53:23
  know that week absolutely and she probably liked again.
• 53:27
  She was probably only there for a week on set doing her bit and
• 53:32
  it's a fantastic performance and yeah, it gives big finish, give
• 53:35
  me more of tech tycoons Adventure.
• 53:38
  And don't say the cheapest. Don't pay things off.
• 53:41
  He established that character in the Timeless children and this
• 53:45
  is where this is all paid off the watch.
• 53:48
  You know, they get to have a proper conversation and then
• 53:52
  unfortunately, she's brutally dispatched.
• 53:57
  But that's what happens in Doctor Who people get brutally
• 54:00
  dispatched? And I think again, people were
• 54:02
  expecting that to be Bell or vendor because what they
• 54:04
  actually want is to see more of tech tycoons.
• 54:07
  No she she serves her purpose within the plot.
• 54:11
  I really like this where they will back to the Tardis in slow
• 54:15
  motion after all this sort of furious plotting that every now
• 54:19
  again, gibber's who just slows down for a scene.
• 54:23
  Yeah. Okay.
• 54:23
  We're taking a pause. It's like the bit at the end of
• 54:27
  it resolution when the, when the judoon come into the tile,
• 54:30
  toddlers children. Well, she sort of sits back on
• 54:32
  the console and going through. Wow!
• 54:34
  That was a lot on it. Oh, you get vendors first.
• 54:39
  Look into the Tardis. Yeah, and it's so exciting
• 54:42
  because it's like, is this a TARDIS?
• 54:45
  Did any so pre? What you sighs man?
• 54:50
  Dick Gil. We're in a pretty here of Doctor
• 54:52
  Who here? Yeah.
• 54:54
  For Pearl down Bishop, no one's, no one's put siding him as their
• 54:57
  Crush, that's fairly. I draws pictures of him with a
• 54:59
  dog when he showed that of that chapter so far so good.
• 55:09
  It's just a bit where the little triangle comes along and goes,
• 55:12
  can you repair the I would love to see more vinda.
• 55:16
  I know he shows up in power that now his part and powered the
• 55:20
  doctor as much as it's a, just a little fun.
• 55:22
  Goodbye to the area like that is someone that didn't need.
• 55:25
  People say that need to be there for this one.
• 55:27
  He didn't need to be there for that.
• 55:28
  I was Jack Dosher supposed to be Jack.
• 55:31
  You're acting up. Maybe.
• 55:35
  Yeah. Now that you've quite possibly
• 55:36
  actually, that was me. A lot of I wouldn't object is,
• 55:39
  you know, to one of those triangles gone, along with them
• 55:42
  and so k-9s or a roll. So give Jodie Whittaker a break,
• 55:45
  and the triangle could do some of the exposition because
• 55:49
  they're really cute. I love him and it's a great
• 55:51
  visual sort of flies actually floating around the console room
• 55:54
  game doctor doctor. Yeah.
• 55:56
  That's a good idea. All right, right.
• 55:58
  So nice to see Davis. It's not too late.
• 56:00
  If I'm sure the doctors can pick up.
• 56:02
  Pick one up somewhere. This is lovely moment.
• 56:05
  Isn't it by the campfire of her just talking to His message.
• 56:12
  What is that little thing in there and take me?
• 56:15
  I mean it's like a Tomodachi isn't it?
• 56:17
  He saw. Smiles are, doesn't it?
• 56:20
  I think it's just like a space buddy, I don't know.
• 56:25
  But like why can't we have? This is a good questions.
• 56:28
  Like why can't we have two characters?
• 56:30
  Yeah, that are involved in the story and the entire purpose of
• 56:36
  them is that they are trying to find each other without them
• 56:38
  being a massive part of the plot.
• 56:40
  I think that's why people have a problem with is where do they
• 56:43
  fit into the plot? What they do.
• 56:45
  They're just involved in the plot.
• 56:47
  It's just showing you the effects that the flux has had on
• 56:50
  the universe and the people within it.
• 56:51
  They are representative of all the people in the reverse and,
• 56:56
  you know, there was that whole thing of people going on all the
• 56:59
  kids going to be the doctor and it's like, no and people.
• 57:03
  So mad on the internet about it. And it's like, you've all just
• 57:06
  created this because also there thinking that I'm off at mind,
• 57:09
  aren't my? Yeah.
• 57:12
  And this is not just see what he did.
• 57:14
  Do you say we're all expecting these enormous twist going back
• 57:19
  into the doctors past, I won't know chipmunk to do that and you
• 57:23
  see this time This Vista Rave in this planet destroyed buildings,
• 57:28
  that's brilliant. I mean, I can kind of see there
• 57:32
  again. It's a CGI thing there.
• 57:34
  Yeah but it's about selling the world, it doesn't have to be
• 57:37
  100% convincing. It's it's interesting that this
• 57:41
  is like a lovely little halfway point where you kind of like
• 57:45
  this is almost like it's a game of two halves, but this is
• 57:49
  almost like wrapping up. The excitement is the first
• 57:52
  couple of episodes of building to something and it's like a
• 57:54
  nice little breather. Before we go into Apps, one of
• 57:57
  the blower episodes of the series next.
• 58:01
  Perhaps, some might say, I don't know, but we'll find out.
• 58:05
  Yeah, well, the interesting thing is your reaction to the to
• 58:08
  because no one likes this and you do - the next one.
• 58:12
  And well, we'll get there but we will indeed I love this episode.
• 58:17
  I think this is one of the best episodes of the Jodie,
• 58:20
  Whittaker, run. I think it's a certified
• 58:23
  classic. I won't go that far because I
• 58:27
  think is doing a lot. I can't really see it as a
• 58:30
  standalone is. My trouble is, it's so embedded
• 58:32
  in this season, but I do think is very strong.
• 58:37
  It's look at this, the angel in the phone.
• 58:40
  Oh my God. Such such a good idea of I've
• 58:45
  had like, this is clever clever stuff of how to get an angel
• 58:48
  into the Tardis and just showing what a fucking great writers who
• 58:52
  Chris chibnall is despite his critics.
• 58:58
  I mean that I can't think I actually, as I can't think of a
• 59:01
  more exciting ending that I enjoy taking over the tile to
• 59:04
  know and it it starts to such a furious way.
• 59:07
  The next episode, actually, the next Cliffhanger, I think it's
• 59:11
  even better. Yeah, I mean this has got some
• 59:13
  caulking Chris, Chris hangers Cliffhangers all the way
• 59:17
  through, but that one in particular while the big
• 59:19
  criticisms is the Cliffhangers are all amazing and the
• 59:22
  resolutions are often disappointing and I've had this
• 59:26
  conversation on both sides. As of the argument of where
• 59:28
  people have said, you know what the Cliffhangers the important
• 59:31
  thing because it's getting people back next week.
• 59:33
  Yeah, about our people say, well for the story to be any good,
• 59:36
  the resolution should be more important.
• 59:39
  In fact what's good is if you get both right you know yeah no
• 59:42
  of course but I think generally it's all about getting people to
• 59:47
  come back as she say, so and then they've been never going to
• 59:49
  be that satisfactory. Very true.
• 59:52
  It's just the nature of the danger.
• 59:54
  You're putting someone in. It does, you're halfway through
• 59:57
  the story. Do you recall?
• 59:59
  Whether we did all three top things of the first two
• 1:00:02
  episodes? What did we say?
• 1:00:03
  No, we didn't do them. Are we going to do them at the
• 1:00:06
  end of six? Okay, I got something, we've got
• 1:00:10
  to free. Six, nine twelve things.
• 1:00:12
  No, I think we came up with an idea of what we do, but I'll go
• 1:00:16
  back and see what we said. Okay, would you just summarize
• 1:00:22
  your thoughts then on Once Upon time before we hop into the next
• 1:00:27
  classic? I think it's an amazing episode.
• 1:00:30
  As I said, I genuinely think it's a classic episode of the
• 1:00:33
  area for me. I think it's Chris chibnall
• 1:00:36
  responding to his critics a little bit with the way that
• 1:00:39
  Moffat does of going people go, all he can't do character and he
• 1:00:43
  does lots of too simple or whatever.
• 1:00:47
  He's not a good script which is bollocks.
• 1:00:48
  But he delivers a very rich dense complicated script that
• 1:00:55
  amazing character work and also it looks beautiful.
• 1:00:57
  Also, I mean it's an 11-hour 10 for me.
• 1:01:03
  Yeah, I've been out. I cannot scale to such Heights
• 1:01:08
  but going back and watching it again.
• 1:01:10
  I was astonished at how much work for the season this episode
• 1:01:14
  did lat Liz beginners you added some more to it as well.
• 1:01:17
  But whilst giving everybody a chance to do multiple roles
• 1:01:22
  which is something I really love in television.
• 1:01:24
  When you see people doing different things, adding Loads
• 1:01:28
  of backstory to the roof. Doxa, first glimpse of tattooed,
• 1:01:32
  like it's just, it is just one banging scene after another, and
• 1:01:36
  then just all wrapped up in the, the very pretty visual package
• 1:01:41
  as well. Yeah, it's such a wonderful
• 1:01:44
  episode and I hope that as people revisit the Sierra, this
• 1:01:48
  is one that will start to get re-evaluated a bit more and
• 1:01:52
  everybody will realize that it's the season.
• 1:01:55
  Isn't the seasons, high point is Not just the angel story.
• 1:02:00
  And on that note, should we head off to a village of angels
• 1:02:07
  trans? Absolutely chilling.
• 1:02:09
  Let's do it. I'll see you there.
• 1:02:12
  Okay. There