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From Dubai to Kingston: How I Found My Home in Jamaica's Warmth & Simplicity · Babes, how did you get here

• 0:00
  When you tell your family, guys, I'm no longer taking trips to Jamaica. I'm leaving. What is
• 0:05
  their reaction? My mom was not shocked. She knew that where my heart was. She knew, but she was
• 0:13
  obviously not happy about it, because I'm not there anymore. She actually, her first trip to Jamaica
• 0:20
  was in 2018, so two years after I moved. Of course, she was like, why are you there? Come back home.
• 0:25
  When she came, she was like, okay, I get it. I get why you're here. So that was sad.
• 0:30
  Was she worried that you were coming to Kingston? Yes, I know. I mean, obviously everyone here is,
• 0:37
  you know, things about Kingston, but nowhere is any different. I don't just come to Kingston.
• 0:43
  When you tell me that I was coming visiting, we were talking about it. So a lot of things actually
• 0:49
  are similar to, like, way of life in Dubai. How families are, Sunday dinners, you know.
• 0:56
  So yes, I wasn't used to it in Canada. So Canada, you're just like, on the go. Yes, you know,
• 1:00
  here there's a, there is on the go, but there's a lot more important placed on, like, you know,
• 1:06
  take it easy. Welcome to a live elsewhere. We go beyond the glossy highlights to hear real stories
• 1:12
  from extraordinary people who live abroad. I am April Jackson, and I'm so excited to speak with
• 1:18
  someone who has literally changed the lives of young people, living in some of Jamaica's most
• 1:22
  dangerous inner-city communities. Farnoosh Drudga is the executive director of Lead Outreach Initiative.
• 1:29
  She was born in Iran, raised in Dubai, moved to Kingston from Toronto, but she's not just
• 1:34
  talking about change. She is living it where it really matters. In this episode, we talk about
• 1:40
  how serving others can actually serve ourselves by giving us purpose and perspective. Funnush.
• 1:46
  Tell me how you came to Jamaica. Well, I went back to school for early childhood education,
• 1:56
  and I met my professor who was running volunteer trips down to Jamaica. I always wanted to
• 2:01
  volunteer. I always wanted to do so many things when I was younger, but my parents were always
• 2:05
  scared, and, you know, this will happen to you. That'll happen to you. Don't go. Don't go away. So,
• 2:10
  when I met my professor, part of the course was to do placements, and so we came to Jamaica
• 2:20
  for two weeks. And you're in college? Yes. Where are you in Toronto? In Toronto. Okay, cool.
• 2:25
  And she became my mentor, just with that one class and the one trip, and I came down here for two
• 2:33
  weeks, and we ran after school programs, and we did things with the kids that must have
• 2:39
  treated communities, and Riverton, the basic school in Riverton, and that was it. I fell
• 2:45
  in love with the kids. We just took that one trip. She said that one trip for two weeks, you go back
• 2:50
  to Canada. And then finish the course, finish the program, graduate, and I just kept coming back
• 2:58
  with her. So her trips were twice a year. Okay. I started leading the trips with her, so we'd
• 3:02
  bring volunteers down, do the same kind of programs to every two weeks. Sorry, twice a year for two
• 3:07
  weeks. Yep. And then she got sick and she passed away in 2012. So I wanted to continue her
• 3:15
  vision in the mission, and then I kept coming back. Oh, wow. I brought volunteers with me,
• 3:21
  and then coming, regardless of how many we had, we started with like groups of 30, and then
• 3:27
  with groups of, you know, effectively with like groups of 10. And we were busy the whole two weeks.
• 3:33
  Two weeks turned to three weeks, and then twice a year from you turned to three, four times a year,
• 3:37
  and I'm like, I need to just move. So you were coming even respective of the groups.
• 3:41
  Right. You would just make sure that you're always here. Yeah. And when you say you were working
• 3:44
  with the kids, what are you doing? We built different curriculums for the children living
• 3:51
  with special needs. We built a library at one of the homes. In Riverton, we did a lot of like
• 3:59
  programs with the kids after school. So crafts and reading, a lot of them actually, not even just
• 4:05
  the kids, some of the older person in the committee would come in and want to read and write.
• 4:10
  So we did kind of basic reading and writing, and then I did, and then that kind of grew to
• 4:17
  so many other things of like realizing what the need is. Okay. So outside of like, hey, this is
• 4:23
  what I want to do. Sure. I don't like that. It's more just like, what is the need? Okay.
• 4:28
  So then, you know, just asking and listening and hearing what persons in the communities needed,
• 4:34
  it became, it grew to so many programs like running youth leadership camps.
• 4:42
  I have programs. So empowering the youth to be agents of change in their own communities.
• 4:49
  So for them to know that they can make a difference, it doesn't just mean that somebody has to come
• 4:54
  in and do it for you. Sure. So that kind of, that program started in 2010, and it's been running
• 5:01
  since then, till now. When you say homes, you mean children's hundreds, and they stay, they live in
• 5:06
  these facilities? Yes. So mustard seed communities is one of the homes that I work with, but they
• 5:15
  are near and dear to my heart. And I can't, I mean, the kids became my own children. So couldn't
• 5:21
  have children. What age are the children? They've ranged from six months all the way up to
• 5:26
  as young as adults. Yes. Okay. Yeah. And children living with HIV, our house there as well as
• 5:33
  teen moms. Okay. There's a home for teen moms, Mary's child. There's also a home for adults living
• 5:41
  with disabilities. There's a whole agriculture program within Lestered Seed. It's an income
• 5:46
  generating self-sustaining program, but that also empowers the residents to the ones that are able.
• 5:52
  Sure. To feel like they have a sense of purpose doing something, they're not just sitting around
• 5:58
  and staring at a wall. Sure. There's so many programs like activities and things for them. So
• 6:03
  And when you started coming, and then I get the impression that the frequency of your visits
• 6:08
  became more and more, was there a key moment that you were like, actually, I should just move
• 6:13
  rather than keep creating? Yeah. So I, it was in 2016 and I had just had a history
• 6:25
  ectomy. And I knew that at that moment a lot of things changed in my life. Sure. I
• 6:33
  obviously had a great support system at home family, which I'm so grateful for for that. But I knew,
• 6:40
  I felt something was taken from me. Yeah. I couldn't have my own children. And I knew that
• 6:47
  all of these years before that, I was around kids that really gave me that sense of purpose,
• 6:52
  that sense of that feeling of motherhood, that feeling of, you know, and then I, to me, at that
• 7:00
  moment, I was like, why am I here? Okay. Why shouldn't I be with the kids that make me feel?
• 7:08
  Yeah. Like I have something right up a sense of purpose in life. So that's, that was a moment.
• 7:15
  2016 after the surgery, I healed and then I came here and moved and your family, are they living
• 7:20
  income? Yes, there. Okay. And you also lived in Dubai? I did. I grew up in Dubai. So I was born
• 7:26
  in Iran. And then I was born in the war. So moved to Dubai. I think I was just under two.
• 7:33
  And I grew up there with family, cousins, everybody. Life then was, was, was great.
• 7:41
  And moved to Toronto. I think about 2000 in 2000. And then I was there for school, finished
• 7:49
  high school there. University went back to school for early childhood. And do you think having
• 7:54
  had moved to different countries before that that made moving to Jamaica, Israel?
• 7:59
  I think generally I'm, I can adapt easily. Okay. I change is not hard for me, especially when I feel,
• 8:08
  you know, I mean, in the past, it wasn't really a choice. The move. This being a choice, but also
• 8:14
  in the moment, it was kind of difficult to leave family. Sure. Knowing that, I may see them,
• 8:19
  you know, every few months or if they come down once or twice a year, but yeah, it was,
• 8:26
  it was hard at first. But because the kids were here, I just came in and I was just like, I don't
• 8:31
  write in. Yeah. And when you tell your family, guys, I'm no longer taking trips to Jamaica,
• 8:36
  I'm leaving. What is their reaction? My mom was not shocked. She knew, you know, that where my
• 8:46
  heart was. Sure. And she always, always was a big believer in following my heart. So,
• 8:52
  she knew, but she was obviously not happy about it, because I'm not there anymore.
• 8:57
  She actually, the her first trip to Jamaica was in 2018. So two years after I moved,
• 9:02
  and when she came before it, she was like, why are you there? Come back home. When she came,
• 9:07
  she was like, okay, I get it. I get why you're here. So that was sad.
• 9:11
  Was she worried that you were coming to Kingston? Yes, I know. I mean, obviously,
• 9:17
  everyone here is, you know, things about Kingston, but nowhere is any different. I didn't just
• 9:23
  come to Kingston. When you tell me that I was coming visit in Rivertown. So when I started coming,
• 9:29
  I actually used to stay in Vineyard Town, Dinery Road, as in London. Yes. So everyone's like,
• 9:36
  what? That's where you are. That's where you live. Where you go every day? I'm like,
• 9:40
  we're written. What? So even like people in Canada, like my parents, friends, or anybody that,
• 9:45
  you know, especially Jamaicans. Sure. They're like, I would not step there. I wouldn't go there.
• 9:50
  Yeah, because when you invited, when you said, oh, yeah, we're going to go to Rivertown.
• 9:53
  Yeah. I laughed on the inside, because I was like, show, she's real. Like, she's really,
• 9:58
  she laughed at me. Oh, yeah, let's go call him spring. Yeah. I guess everyone went to Rivertown.
• 10:02
  Yes. Did you take your mom with you? Oh, I sure did. Yeah. Yeah.
• 10:06
  Their first trip, I had a, I had a baby wellness clinic. Okay. And they came and they helped me,
• 10:13
  like, put bags together and like, hand out things in my nieces. My nieces was only two at the time.
• 10:18
  She was a baby herself. Yeah. And I took them to the homes and honestly,
• 10:23
  anybody that in my family knows, family and friends, when they come to visit me, it's, yeah,
• 10:28
  I'll take a few days short and I'll go with them, but I'm a big believer in, you know, I,
• 10:34
  moving here was never about the beaches and the, you know, oh, yes, Jamaica is beautiful.
• 10:41
  And I explore it whenever I can. I'll take a drive and go to the mountains. I go to
• 10:45
  the mountains. I'll go, you know, all the way past I'll drive to Portland, but I,
• 10:51
  when family or friends come from me, it's like, they need to see what I see.
• 10:57
  Or I want them to see what I see. And not everybody has the same reaction, obviously.
• 11:01
  And I'm okay with that, but you're giving them the opportunity to see what drew you here,
• 11:08
  essentially. Exactly. And it's funny because volunteering, I think there's almost an industry
• 11:13
  for like volunteer tourism, volunteerism or volunteerism. Yeah. It's terrible. And it feels
• 11:19
  a little bit cringed to me, you know, I've been to, to school abroad and you hear of people
• 11:24
  and they're really proud about the fact that they helped build up water well or something.
• 11:29
  But it's almost as if it's a them thing. Even the way they tell you about it, it's never really
• 11:35
  about the people that they're serving. And there's also, I find it quite disingenuous when people
• 11:41
  talk about serving people as though it's completely like philanthropic. And I always say to people
• 11:48
  that when you do any sort of community service, it is just about as much helping people,
• 11:54
  but also you help yourself. So like, from my perspective, I used to work with Glenhulk before
• 11:58
  it burned out. Which is many, many years ago. And that was a romance center. So the girls were
• 12:03
  usually there in between finding out what was going to happen at court, if they were going to go
• 12:07
  to a juvenile facility or where they're going to be returned to their community. And for a lot of
• 12:11
  these girls, you know, a stepdad may have raped them and the mother has sent them there. And you
• 12:16
  can imagine like the layers. And I was inspired by a movie and I was like, okay, I'm going to go
• 12:20
  every Sunday. And I'd have, we'd start sometimes with reading or we would do some writing,
• 12:25
  like just something that was academic name client. But then my thing after that, that would be like
• 12:30
  an hour and a half. And then my rule after that was whoever wanted to talk, you just line up
• 12:34
  and you would talk, right? Because unfortunately a lot of the host mobbers, I guess, would have that
• 12:39
  relationship. But also they are toxic, like a lot of the time. And again, I'm not blaming them,
• 12:44
  they're just a product of their own environment. But like girls would confide maybe in an auntie.
• 12:50
  And then all of a sudden her business is out into the home and that would cause arguments. And
• 12:55
  I felt that just speaking would kind of help. And I'd be there for like four and a half, five hours.
• 13:00
  And again, people say, we're all what you're doing is so great. I'm like, well, hold on. My mother
• 13:04
  left me and that I only started speaking about that with these girls because that was the way we
• 13:09
  kind of related. And 100%. I would not have been able to deal with my own trauma if it wasn't.
• 13:16
  So it wasn't for them. And I said, we were all the time, yes, I was there to help. And that may
• 13:21
  have been how it started. But it would be a lie to not let you also know that there was a huge part
• 13:28
  of them healing my own. And I wondered if do you think had you not had your experience of your
• 13:34
  historic to me? Would you have felt as compelled to to be here? And what the kids did?
• 13:41
  Yeah, I think what I related. So when I first started coming, I had struggled with endometriosis
• 13:48
  for years before it. And surgery after surgery each year. And the first year I actually started
• 13:54
  volunteering. I think it was probably a year and a half after my first surgery. And then it just
• 14:02
  kept happening. So while I was coming down, I was still having surgeries. So every time I would
• 14:08
  have surgery, I would heal. I'm like, okay, I'm going. And it was a motivation for me. And if it wasn't,
• 14:13
  I feel like I would have gone straight down into depression. I kept this, it's really the only
• 14:18
  thing that pulled me out. The kids seeing, I don't want to call it struggles because we're all
• 14:25
  struggling with so many things. But seeing them not have a choice, not have a voice sometimes.
• 14:32
  Choice and a voice really made me like regardless of what pain I was in. And still I'm
• 14:40
  everyday. Sure. They motivate me to like push that aside. Yeah. Like I don't even think about it.
• 14:49
  For me, it's like that is just not like they're going through in my mind so much worse. And they have
• 14:55
  no choice to come out of it. They're confined to these four walls. Yeah. Or they don't have a
• 14:59
  voice to say, I want to do this with my life. I want to do better. I want to get an education.
• 15:06
  Not saying that they don't have that voice, it's they feel like they can't. They feel limited.
• 15:13
  So that's also one of my, I've made my purpose to make sure that the kids that have to find out
• 15:21
  who is interested in what their skills are, what they can do, what they want to do. And so send
• 15:28
  them to different schools. Sure. To get different, you know, certifications. Yes. Go to school.
• 15:33
  We have one of the kids from the community. He is now a lawyer. One is an accountant. She lives in
• 15:38
  she moved to Canada. Migrated, you know, or like, you know, they're in all different trades and
• 15:42
  skills. And for me, that's that was really the purpose of all of it for me. And it's funny.
• 15:49
  I would have sometimes like you'd have your good girls, right? There's people that are more
• 15:54
  responsive to you than other people. And I remember one of them, her aunt lived in London. And so
• 16:01
  she got stay. So she was now leaving this facility. And she was going to London. And I was super
• 16:05
  excited. Super excited. And my heart kind of dropped because she arrives in London a few months
• 16:10
  later. She's pregnant. And and it was I'm not saying that you mustn't have babies. I'm just saying
• 16:15
  you're 15 years old. And I wanted I had this whole vision of know you're going to have an
• 16:20
  opportunity to come out of your environment. And you know, the world is know you're always
• 16:24
  still. And in that moment, I at first I took it personally. I know it wasn't me, but I took
• 16:30
  it personally because we had this relationship. And I felt that I was I think I felt that I was
• 16:35
  doing more than I was actually doing, right? And this happening was a reality check that there
• 16:41
  are still limitations. And as much as you want for people life happens, right? Life happens in
• 16:47
  the way that it does. And I had to kind of appreciate and also appreciate that I leave them,
• 16:53
  right? Like I come to you one day, alter the week, and then I leave. And that was quite hard for me
• 17:00
  to accept. I was also 19. I'd hope that now in my thirties it'd be easier for me to accept. But
• 17:06
  I just wondered in terms of your experiences and working with children on a daily basis,
• 17:11
  you're going to see a broad spectrum of how it turns out, how it doesn't turn out. And
• 17:17
  how do you kind of resolve that within yourself? So everything you just said about, you know,
• 17:25
  that one girl that that happened to, so I also work with Grandville Childcare Facility,
• 17:30
  which is a home for girls similar to what you're saying. I know similar. And they constantly change.
• 17:37
  So that's also that was also a struggle for me to, you know, to go one week and then the next
• 17:42
  week, you know, they're gone. Or, you know, they've moved back home or they now in a month or
• 17:46
  this. But just seeing that, I mean, that's, so one thing, one conversation I had with the girls
• 17:55
  was where do you, one of them was pregnant and she was waiting to, you know, she had, I think,
• 18:01
  seven months pregnant. Okay. And the conversation we had was she said, I said, did you want,
• 18:06
  like, he wanted to be a mother? How do you feel about becoming a mother? Yeah. And for her,
• 18:12
  she was, she said that she thought if she, her sense of self-worth was tied to the love that she got
• 18:25
  from the person that we thought she was having, going to have a child with. And she didn't even know
• 18:31
  she was 15 years old. And it was for her, for a lot of the girls, for a lot of girls in that
• 18:40
  facility or in facility similar to it. For them, they just, they, they, they don't
• 18:48
  understand the, the gravity of, you know, your sense of self-worth should be tied to somebody
• 18:56
  telling you they love you. Sure. There, you know, because they haven't had that before. So,
• 19:00
  I don't blame them. I know. You know, like, there's nothing you can say that it's like, and I think
• 19:07
  that's when, when you talk about toxicity within the homes, sometimes it's, the blame is put on
• 19:13
  the children, the children, when they didn't ask for that. That's what I always say. They did not
• 19:18
  ask for this. And even children in general, like, at what point do we stop blaming and pointing
• 19:24
  finger to that children and look at how we may have caused it? Yes. How our behavior could affect
• 19:31
  them? Yeah. How, you know, if they're acting out, why are they acting? Sure. You know, a lot of
• 19:36
  times, like, they don't act out with me. Yes. Why is it that they're acting out with you?
• 19:40
  100%. So, I had a girl, I came once on the, and her face had welt on it. And I was like, what the hell
• 19:46
  has happened to? And it was a husband that slapped her. And so, I took her away. Oh boy.
• 19:51
  Which I'm not allowed to do. Yes. I get home. And I get home. And I was like, what did you do?
• 19:57
  Do we need to have a chat? I said, yeah, in a minute, we'll talk. The, the, the guy who actually ran
• 20:04
  the home is on the phone. He's like, I said, let me tell you. You see, the, he's like, you can't
• 20:08
  just take their words of the state. You can't just, I said, her face had welt on it, right? So,
• 20:13
  if you're going to call the police on anyone, you better call it on the woman who did it, right?
• 20:18
  And my dad is just like, I think you're really invested. And at the time, again, I didn't realize
• 20:24
  why I was so invested. But like, looking back, it was because it gave me like, complete
• 20:28
  purpose, right? Like, and I felt that. And to the point where I just started taking people
• 20:32
  to their home, I did return her the next day. But I also felt that she needed to know, and that
• 20:40
  was another thing for me is that she needed to know that I will do that, right? Because they know
• 20:45
  that it's also against the rules. And she needed to know that I was willing to do whatever it takes
• 20:51
  to provide that safe space like for her. Unfortunately, she ended up as a juvenile vicinity. And then I'm
• 20:55
  driving like three hours to go wherever it's just madness. But I think the other thing I guess I
• 21:02
  worry is age, right? So when I got into these girls' lives, it's like sort of 13 to 16. And I'm
• 21:09
  really cognizant of the fact that that is way past that kind of key early childhood phase. And
• 21:16
  what do you think in terms of how we can help young ladies, young men? Because at that point,
• 21:22
  you know, you can say we're at 13, you're still a child. But their life experiences has forced
• 21:27
  them to grow up, right? We're not even into it. We're not dealing with your average 13-year-old
• 21:33
  who's been given the grace of being a child. And I just, I wonder if sometimes we write them off
• 21:41
  because we're gone so far. But at the same time, how do you really impact at that late stage?
• 21:47
  I actually find so a lot of the use I work with in the communities are at that age. Sure. And
• 21:55
  I find that that's also a critical age, as much as early childhood is because at that age,
• 22:01
  they're still kind of on the fence of like, do I matter? What do I not matter? What's my purpose? Do
• 22:06
  I have one? Do I where do I go in life? So I think that's more critical. Okay. In a sense of like,
• 22:11
  where do they go in life? When they're like early childhood to that stage, it's like
• 22:16
  emotional regulation, self-worth, confidence, all of that stuff builds. Unfortunately,
• 22:21
  when they've reached that 13, 16-age, a lot of those things and what they've gone through,
• 22:27
  the abuse, all of that would have shaped them to not have certain of those characteristics,
• 22:35
  but I think from what I've noticed, I think it's easy to change. It's easy to,
• 22:43
  when I say easy, I don't mean easy. I mean, it's possible to change that outlook of yourself.
• 22:52
  And I think to be able to help them have conversations, hold space for them to feel what they feel,
• 23:01
  make them feel like they matter, give them a sense of responsibility,
• 23:06
  help them feel empowered, help them. I mean, there's just so much that we're not doing,
• 23:13
  unfortunately. And it's like, I always feel like I'm like barking in the background and like,
• 23:18
  nobody's hearing me. But I'm also, I've fought myself in a sense because I,
• 23:26
  I'm not very outspoken. Okay. I like behind the scenes. I like being behind the scenes,
• 23:31
  even when I started volunteering, I was always behind the scenes. I just wanted to,
• 23:34
  I don't, and like when you talk about volunteerism and tourism and all of that,
• 23:40
  I never wanted to be in the limelight of sure to share, oh, this is what I'm doing,
• 23:46
  and what I'm doing. For me, it's like, if I can make an impact, if there is change, if I've
• 23:51
  made a difference in anyone's life, that's all I care about. Okay. And so, especially with the
• 23:57
  girls, and now with the girls at the girls' home, hopefully you'll, and you will be able to visit.
• 24:01
  We have to. Yeah. It's, it's in, um, Falma, it's an open way out. Yes. We can arrange for that. But
• 24:08
  there, it's, I think a lot of things that I can relate to with those girls is as much as I had
• 24:16
  a beautiful childhood upbringing. There was still a lot that I can relate to, um, to how they
• 24:23
  are feeling. And so there was a lot of, um, and I think that's what, I think if we allow,
• 24:31
  as adults, if we allow ourselves to be vulnerable with the girls, with, you know, um, and for
• 24:37
  them to feel like we're not better than them. Yeah. And I think that's the, the, the, yeah.
• 24:43
  The problem. Um, I mean, I'm both, and I don't like that energy. So I can only imagine. And,
• 24:49
  and I think that's another thing when people are perhaps giving, you know, maybe it's Christmas time
• 24:53
  and they're giving things, there can be an energy of, I'm like, white night savior. I do not like
• 24:59
  coming. And yeah, when I save your complex for me is just very, or cycling people donate clothes
• 25:04
  and the clothes are digging, digging. Oh my god. I'm just like, what are you doing? Oh my god. I have
• 25:10
  suitcases in my house right now in storage because I have to go through them. I'm not just going to,
• 25:16
  when you give me something and it has holes in it and it has stains that, would you wear it?
• 25:19
  This is what I do. I genuinely do not understand. If you, there's one thing that you've grown out of
• 25:24
  it and like it might be designer clothes and the quality is still perfect. 100%. But you are giving
• 25:29
  things that you would not want to wear based on quality. And then again, going back to self-esteem
• 25:35
  and like making people feel good about themselves. If you're a child and you, you know when something
• 25:40
  is shit. Exactly. And you know that that is what someone is saying that you should wear. Actually,
• 25:45
  I genuinely don't understand. I think, and that's where it comes from, is that I am, I am above
• 25:50
  everybody and I, if they should be so happy and so lucky to receive anything from me. My whole of all
• 26:00
  no, but I think I honestly feel like as a society not, not just even here. No, it's a global thing.
• 26:09
  A global thing. When Grenfell fell in England, they had a big trouble and they fell and there was
• 26:15
  a story, a guy was on the radio and he said that a child was calling for Superman and I started crying.
• 26:20
  I was in my car and I started crying because I could just imagine a child asking for Superman to
• 26:25
  save him out of a building. And so I drove straight in there. They had lots of like volunteer
• 26:30
  spots to sort through donations. And I'm just like, why are people giving this? I don't understand.
• 26:36
  Literally. Yeah. It's a global thing. It's bizarre. Man. Or they think like, oh, because they're
• 26:43
  impoverished and because they live where they live. Something is better than nothing. But like,
• 26:47
  no, they should, they should be so, they should be so grateful that they're even getting that.
• 26:53
  Like, really? You would, if something happens, I mean, everybody, it can happen to anybody. You could
• 27:00
  be a billionaire and lose everything and you will end up exactly where they are in that same
• 27:04
  position. Then we're going to do or expect from society. There's just a lot of humanity, I think,
• 27:09
  in general. And that's just one example. I wonder if, when you started working with these
• 27:14
  communities, did you ever get a resistance from them that you're far in? Yeah. You live a
• 27:21
  nice life. I still, and how are you going to comment out to me? I still, well, not from the kids.
• 27:26
  So much. I still get that sense of resistance from, um, from, so I mean, you're 15 years in
• 27:36
  now, right? 20, 20, 20, 20 years. 20 years in. Yeah. So at the beginning, I mean, when I say I
• 27:42
  still do, it's, it's still the, the color of my skin. Okay. Oh, she has everything. Yes.
• 27:49
  Like, I, I, I mean, I'm not want to walk around and talk about my struggles or, you know,
• 27:56
  what I feel or what I don't feel on a daily basis. Um, and that's where, yeah, that's, that's
• 28:02
  where the disconnect is. Okay. And I think that culturally, and I think globally, not even just
• 28:07
  here, um, we just jump to conclusions, you know, we judge before we were very judgmental. Yeah.
• 28:15
  You man, like, yes, but people like me, I will tell you that I'm the most open-minded judgment
• 28:19
  of the person you will ever meet. Because our brains are like that, right? They make shortcuts
• 28:24
  for a reason. And someone once said to me, it's not your first thought that matters. It's your
• 28:28
  second. And I thought that that was so honest, because to deny, like, when people say I don't see
• 28:33
  color, I'm like, are you fucking black? Everybody does. Like, why would we say that? Everybody judges,
• 28:38
  too, but you can catch yourself in that moment. Exactly. That's that second thought to self-awareness
• 28:43
  to understand. We were saying it came more from adults than kids. Yes. Yeah. The adults being,
• 28:48
  and it made it difficult because sometimes that was then passed on to the kids. Okay. Why is she
• 28:55
  saying this to you? Why is a look at her? She's this. She's that. And then I would notice a change
• 29:01
  in some of the kids because of the energy. And I'm very big on energy. So I can walk into a room,
• 29:07
  yes, and feel like I'm walking right back in here, or I can walk, yeah. So I can, and I think that's
• 29:14
  what's really guided me over the years. If I was oblivious to it, I wouldn't be able to do it.
• 29:21
  And was there a difference? Because there's one thing to come here for two weeks, three weeks.
• 29:26
  And then it's another thing to actually live here. Was there anything that surprised you when you
• 29:31
  made the big more to live? Well, I mean, yeah. I rented a house. Okay. Because I wanted to have
• 29:42
  a space where when volunteers come, they stay with me. Okay. So I rented a house. I, you know,
• 29:47
  went downtown, found mattresses, beds, all that stuff. So that for me, that was, it was,
• 29:53
  I can't say that it was challenging. I enjoyed it. But at the same time it was something that I'd
• 30:01
  never experienced before. Sure. In what way? In a sense of like, you know, I don't want to
• 30:07
  climb myself white, a white girl walking downtown, you know, asking somebody to make a mattress
• 30:13
  for her and a bed. Sure. Or like multiple beds and like, and do this and that. And they're like,
• 30:17
  why don't you just go to Ashley furniture? I'm like, because I don't want to go there. Look at that.
• 30:21
  You know, the two things, like one, anything I do, even when we build homes in the communities,
• 30:27
  like I'm all for supporting locally. Sure. And I am not, I was never, my parents were never rich,
• 30:39
  were never made of money. Everything was, you know, we worked hard for everything. I worked
• 30:43
  for jobs to help support my parents when we moved to Canada. My dad was bankrupt at some point.
• 30:48
  Like it was just like, nobody sees those struggles. They're just, they're just, they're just
• 30:51
  a few days. So, yeah. So for me, that was the, I'm like, I, I value money. I value what it can do.
• 31:02
  I'm, I think, you know, if, if I have this and I'm spending it on one bed, I could be helping
• 31:08
  and buying beds for 10 others in the communities or like, or what, what not. So that was kind of the,
• 31:15
  did you always have this level of consciousness always? I think it came from my mom. Okay.
• 31:22
  Growing up, she was always, just watching her be who she was. She was selfless. She gave everything
• 31:29
  she had to, to shirt off her back. And but everything that we experienced growing up was,
• 31:37
  you know, you can't have this or that because maybe they could have afforded it at that point,
• 31:41
  but it was, I, I appreciate them not making us feel like we can have everything we want.
• 31:48
  Okay. And I, and I really appreciate that because I still remember like, I was six or seven
• 31:52
  years old, went into like a toy store and I wanted this like motorized car to get into. I mean,
• 31:58
  I love driving from when I was that, I wanted to drive from when I was diagnosed, but I want to,
• 32:02
  and I'm, and everybody's like, you're not going for the Barbies and the know what you're going for
• 32:05
  the cars. So I want to get in one of those and they're like, nope, you can't. And then we just,
• 32:10
  walk in, walk back out, we would window shop everywhere we went. And I, yeah, so those values
• 32:16
  that change still in me, I, I don't think I could ever, I can't live my life any other way.
• 32:23
  Yeah. What do you think is the most common misconception about living in Jamaica?
• 32:30
  So for me, it was always like, oh, you're, you're moving to Jamaica, you're so lucky,
• 32:35
  you'll get to go to the beach. Okay. Every day you're by the beach, you'll get to relax, you'll
• 32:40
  get to this. I'm like, you're new persons that come to Jamaica for vacation for years, I didn't
• 32:46
  go near a resort. Okay. For that reason, because I'm like, I'm not here for that person.
• 32:52
  The first time I think I went was when my parents came and we went away for the weekend.
• 32:57
  Sure. And I was still reluctant. I'm like, I don't want to give it to this. But so places like
• 33:02
  Portland or like, you know, Nigril, like the small little boutique hotel in it, like I love that
• 33:07
  right over the big resorts. But the misconception of, yeah, your white savior complex one,
• 33:15
  you know, you're coming here to save society in Jamaican society. No, that's not it at all.
• 33:23
  Like what I take away from the kids and the families and everybody I work with is way more than
• 33:28
  anything that I ever feel like I could have or have done for them. But when you speak,
• 33:34
  there's, I almost get like a sense of protection. Do you feel that way? Do you feel me being
• 33:40
  protective over there? Yeah, 100%. Yeah. So when I started to, I would, in the summer, I would take
• 33:47
  some of the kids to Devon House. Okay. And so the main Devon House bill. And years ago, it wasn't
• 33:54
  the same as like you would. So maybe careful and stainless. So
• 34:02
  persons coming from different communities, inner city communities, when they come, when they go
• 34:06
  to places like Devon House or, you know, uptown, they're not welcome the same way. So in the first
• 34:16
  time, I took them by not for class to make it. Okay. And tourists. And anyway, they just,
• 34:23
  I guess it's, if they don't dress a certain way, they're seen, you know, they're judged.
• 34:30
  But I, the first time I walked in, I noticed it. And when I went to order ice cream for the kids,
• 34:38
  I stopped myself. And I turned around. I gave each of them. Okay.
• 34:43
  The money, like, walked outside each of them, like, started their pockets and like, go get what
• 34:47
  you want. Sure. And that changed. So it turned from them standing there like this, but they're
• 34:53
  head down. So walking in and feeling like, I, you know, I coming, I'm coming in with my own
• 35:00
  life. So I want to buy what I want. And then I would just, I was just outside. Right. So that
• 35:03
  became a thing. So wherever we go, that was my, like, I want them to feel like a, they're part of
• 35:10
  society anywhere they go. Sure. Um, be, they can do it on their own. Yeah. Um, but I'm also like,
• 35:16
  as much as I'm giving, I'm, I say, know a lot, as much as hurts me to say, no, if like somebody
• 35:22
  asked me for something, like, I don't want it to always be that you, because I didn't grow up that
• 35:26
  way. Sure. You can have everything. Yeah. That's not how it works. Yeah. Um, so yeah.
• 35:31
  And it's funny that you say that about environments, I was at a park in, in the UK in like a
• 35:35
  really posh area. And we were the only black people that made my kids in the park. It was,
• 35:40
  there was a lot of French speaking people. And it was funny because I felt that the energy was a
• 35:46
  little bit odd when my girls went to play, but them being so young, they didn't care. Right. And
• 35:52
  to me, that's that all that matters. But it occurred to me in that point that for people who may not
• 35:57
  come from those areas, it's so important that you take up space in those areas, even if it has
• 36:03
  a parent as an adult, you could feel uncomfortable because you're seeing what's happening. But for your
• 36:08
  child, the blessing is when they're super young, they don't see it. And as they grow up, I feel
• 36:14
  that a part of the reason why, for example, I can go into any space is growing up here, right?
• 36:18
  Growing up in Jamaica, in Opton, Jamaica, where you have access to everybody kind of gave me like a
• 36:23
  blind thing of I can be with anyone anywhere in the world. Exactly. And if you keep your child
• 36:29
  regardless of your background, if you keep them from certain spaces and it could start to hold
• 36:33
  as protection, you don't want anyone to shun them, you don't want anyone to treat them in particular
• 36:37
  waiting. But it's like those initial teething pains of stepping out into those uncomfortable spaces
• 36:43
  for you, I think is really underestimated what that does for your child when they're older.
• 36:48
  Because there's nowhere that I feel like I can't go. Yeah. Even if somebody else wants to make
• 36:52
  me feel I'm not, I don't care. I can be here. And I think it comes from that. And it's really
• 36:56
  interesting that you were able to have that awareness and kind of change the even the way you
• 37:02
  went into those spaces. At the time of your all time, Jamaica's superclasses. Oh, first
• 37:06
  was superclasses. Yeah. I guess in my mind, to be honest, I'd rather the classism over the racism
• 37:12
  because there's a little bit more movement, right? Like as you spoke to about clothing or for us,
• 37:16
  it might be language. You know, the fact that some people will speak Pato, but then they know how to
• 37:21
  switch into proper English depending on their environment. And yet a child who perhaps hasn't
• 37:26
  been trained to code switch in that way is at disadvantage because immediately people will say
• 37:31
  or they'll ask where you live. Exactly. And that's kind of a thing. And I'm not saying that
• 37:35
  classism right. I'm just saying it provides for a little bit more mobility. For sure.
• 37:39
  Then racism, coming from the UK, I can definitely like speak to that. For sure. But yeah, how do we,
• 37:46
  as a society, get better or do we just have to appreciate that human beings seem to always
• 37:51
  want a way to create divisions and do we just accept that it could be a worse kind of division?
• 37:57
  Like how do I was thinking when I met Miss Israel, they all do army. They all have to do service in
• 38:05
  the army, right? Whoever you are. And this lady was so little and fine. I was pretty. I said,
• 38:10
  what are you doing? You mean you trained with the army? And I thought that perhaps that could be
• 38:13
  a thing because then if everybody, regardless of class, had to be an army, obviously you get the
• 38:18
  discipline. And for like younger inner city kids, they might benefit from that more. But it also
• 38:24
  means that you're rubbing shoulder to shoulder with uptown people. Then perhaps that could be a way
• 38:29
  to help kind of bring with us together. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I know there's a lot of countries
• 38:35
  that do that. Yeah. That everybody has to have that training. I don't know if Jamaica's there yet.
• 38:40
  Yeah. That sense. But I think I think it's important. I see the difference in some of the kids
• 38:45
  that do go into training, into the force. And I think it is a good avenue to get them out of
• 38:54
  their environment, to not be idle, to not get into certain things that they would if they were
• 39:02
  just at home. But yeah, I think one acceptance is always, it's hard, but accepting that there's
• 39:13
  always going to be some sign that good and evil. And I think for me, it's like surrounding myself
• 39:25
  more with persons that want to see change, that want the good in the world, that, you know,
• 39:32
  and then just kind of in my mind is like building that army of persons that will do more good.
• 39:40
  Sure. It's hard to kind of just assume that. Yeah. Yeah. We just have to accept people
• 39:44
  for the shit sometimes. Yeah. In a nutshell. Yeah. In a nutshell. You said it completely. Yeah.
• 39:50
  And stepping away from the work that you do and just live your day to day. Did you find it challenging
• 39:56
  like getting into Jamaican culture, meeting new people? So because I started that I came as a
• 40:03
  volunteer. Yeah. Was the years and, you know, built friendships and relationships with people
• 40:10
  at at the home. So one of my best friends, I work with her. Okay. I met her when she was the
• 40:15
  administrator of one of the homes, mustard seed. And no, I mean, if it wasn't for her and I call
• 40:24
  my mustard seed family, like if it wasn't for them, like my move would have been a lot harder.
• 40:28
  Okay. They're kind of like my second family in my back. Sure. So yeah, that that part was,
• 40:35
  if it wasn't for them, it would have been hard. It would have been harder. Is there anything
• 40:39
  culturally that stuck out to you in terms of just way of life coming from a Canadian perspective
• 40:45
  that was very different here in Jericho? So a lot of things actually are similar to way of life
• 40:52
  in Dubai. Okay. In Iran, for me. Okay. How families are Sunday dinners, you know. So yes,
• 40:59
  I wasn't used to it in Canada. Sure. Canada, you're just like on the go. Yes. You know, here,
• 41:04
  there's a there is on the go, but there's a lot more important place on like, you know, take it
• 41:10
  easy. Like you have have a have a moment for yourself, you know, Sundays, you know, you go to church,
• 41:15
  you're your home, you're cooking dinner, you're what? So I still I can't sit still. So I'm not
• 41:20
  want to speak. I work on the weekends. So, um, but you like the idea that that happened. It's
• 41:27
  happening around me. Great. Yeah. Oh, that's funny. And then is there anything food-wise that you
• 41:33
  really missed when you moved? Um, a lot of things like, for me, yes, it's still available in super
• 41:42
  markets. You can get berries and you can get, you know, all the things, but I'm not going to spend
• 41:46
  that money on there is because I had I just think it's wrong. Um, you know, there's certain little
• 41:52
  things that I was used to. Yeah. Like certain fruits and, you know, always having, oh, always
• 41:58
  having access to limes and lemons. And here are really small too. They're small, but it's
• 42:03
  seasonal. So when I or like avocado pair, like for me, it's like, I can't have it all year
• 42:08
  off. What? So that was the first like shock for me. And I had the opposite. When I see it
• 42:13
  available all the time, I'm like, why? Yeah. Why? Well, I grew up with it being a little
• 42:18
  longer time. Um, because in Dubai, everything was brought from everywhere. And then in Canada,
• 42:23
  everything was brought from everywhere. And then I'm like, what? But I love, I actually love
• 42:28
  the seasonal aspect of it. I'm like, oh, it's a mango season. I know it's lime season. I know,
• 42:32
  you know, because you know, you're getting something real. And it's not. Yeah. I had some quick
• 42:36
  five questions for you, tasty or juicy patty. Oh, I'm not a padded person. We don't like
• 42:42
  that too. I do. It just gives me heartburn. So I, I will eat it. I love, I, I used to. I think
• 42:48
  maybe I ate it too. I ate too much too many. Yeah. That's why I feel about chicken for the soup.
• 42:52
  My health case, I always met chicken for the soup. And I loved it. And then one day, I looked
• 42:55
  at the soup. And I was like, it just looks like baby hands bobbing in in the bowl. So my experience
• 43:01
  with chicken foot soup was my first, well, probably my first trip. I was in Riverton. And you know,
• 43:06
  they, as a thing at the end of, of our two weeks, they did lunch and stuff for us as a, you know,
• 43:12
  to thank everybody and have a had a little party. And they're like, oh, here's a cup of soup. Oh,
• 43:15
  my God. Thank you. So I'm drinking it, not even with a spoon. So I'm drinking it. And then I see,
• 43:20
  I see the chicken foot come up. I'm like, oh, my goodness. I didn't know. I would never,
• 43:26
  I've never had chicken foot. So I was like, I just pushed it to the side that I still drank it,
• 43:30
  because I don't want to be rude. Right. But I'm like, I can't, I can't with the feet. I just can't.
• 43:34
  Just seeing it. No, I'm with you. No, I just asked for water. No, yeah. I'll drink the soup. Yeah.
• 43:40
  But yeah, yeah. To you, for a junior or East Indian, he said, mine goes. Yeah. East Indian.
• 43:47
  Really? Why? I like Julie. I don't know, to be honest. I can't choose. No, I don't both.
• 43:55
  Julie and East Indian. My dad loves East Indian. But I don't like the hair. Julie has hair too.
• 44:00
  No, it's still does. They still, they both still do. Maybe not as much. But curry goat or ox tail.
• 44:08
  No. Registripe or rum? Rum? Cain juice or coconut water? Coconut latte. Very cool. Yeah. I wanted
• 44:17
  to ask, when you started to go to Riveta, I mean, was there any fear? Because the average person
• 44:23
  coming from from Calda would be scared. I was not scared. Why? I think because we went
• 44:34
  as a group to the minute I, well, actually, my first trip, I couldn't hunt it. I wasn't,
• 44:40
  I'd never been exposed to tattoo. So I was like, I was like, I was like, I need to understand
• 44:45
  so the kids were talking and I'm like, I'm track. So that first trip, we were setting up a library,
• 44:49
  we were cleaning out a space. Sure. And putting up shelves and bringing things out and painting
• 44:53
  and whatnot. And the kids were helping me and coming in with us and that forced me to understand
• 44:59
  it. Sure. You know, someone's talking about someone's picking me and I'm like, who's a what?
• 45:02
  A what? So yeah, it just, I felt safe right away. I mean, we drove in, we drove through the
• 45:10
  community and then we drove into the school like the fence area. And they closed the fence, not in
• 45:15
  my mind of like, you know, anything. But I think bad things can happen to you anywhere. You just
• 45:23
  don't put yourself in situations that, you know, like I wouldn't go out there at night. Sure.
• 45:30
  Really, anywhere, really that, that I know that could be, could be unsafe. Sure. Yeah. If
• 45:37
  you're left with a postcard, what would it look like? Cool. It would be me and probably 100
• 45:45
  kids at the beach. The beach, the kids. Yeah. That's all I need. Yeah. Thank you. Welcome. Thank you.