Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #817 The Secret Sex Lives of Busy Parents (Part 2)

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#817 The Secret Sex Lives of Busy Parents (Part 2) · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.
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  Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: wants answers Now. Hello, this is doctor Justin Coilson, the
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  Speaker 2: founder of Happy Families dot com dot au. This time
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  Speaker 2: last week we had a conversation with doctor Jennifer Finlayson Fife.
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  Speaker 2: She is a sex therapist relationship expert, and it was
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  Speaker 2: just such a great discussion that we were having. Because
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  Speaker 2: we enjoyed the discussion so much, I kept it going,
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  Speaker 2: but we've spread it out across two episodes. So today
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  Speaker 2: is part two of my discussion with doctor Jennifer Finlayson Fife.
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  Speaker 2: If you missed part one, I strongly strongly encourage you
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  Speaker 2: to go back to last Wednesday and have listened to
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  Speaker 2: that before you dive into this one today. But if
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  Speaker 2: you would like to know what you can do to
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  Speaker 2: improve your intimate life, this is the podcast episode for you.
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  Speaker 2: A quick word before we dive into this episode. The
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  Speaker 2: content of this episode is probably not for younger kids.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: You want to consider who's listening. Listener discretion is advised.
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  Speaker 2: Let's begin by asking doctor Finleyson fIF how does parenting
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  Speaker 2: impact sex drive.
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  Speaker 1: First of all, I think yes, you're absolutely right, because
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  Speaker 1: when I'm going back to that example of a resentment
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  Speaker 1: inducing dynamic, give me two minutes, right or whatever? That
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  Speaker 1: is antithetical to play. Okay. Now, some people it might
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  Speaker 1: be like, I don't know how to play if she
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  Speaker 1: doesn't want it, or you know, I hate the way
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  Speaker 1: he is sexual with me. How are supposed to play
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  Speaker 1: when I just makes my skin crawl? Whatever? So there
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  Speaker 1: are often issues going on in the marriage that need
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  Speaker 1: to be adressed for there to be a deeper sense
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  Speaker 1: of freedom. But more specific to your question is how
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  Speaker 1: is parenting sometimes antithetical to good sex? I think is
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  Speaker 1: what you're asking because a lot of times our notion
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  Speaker 1: of what it is to be a parent is about
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  Speaker 1: responsibility and duty, and the kids come first, and you
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  Speaker 1: know we have a responsibility to them. We shouldn't be
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  Speaker 1: up here playing because that's we're leaving our posts. Okay,
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  Speaker 1: And there's some truth in that, especially if you have
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  Speaker 1: very young children. You don't obviously want to be negligent
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  Speaker 1: or or leave your post. But a lot of times
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  Speaker 1: are anxiety is about sexuality and our fear of letting
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  Speaker 1: ourselves be a whole person will or our notions of
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  Speaker 1: what a good parent is, which is in self sacrificing
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  Speaker 1: to a fault, interferes with our living a joyful, full life,
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  Speaker 1: and I think one of the best ways to be
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  Speaker 1: a good parent is to model a joyful, full life.
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  Speaker 1: It gives your permission to your gives permission to your
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  Speaker 1: kids to ultimately do the same. It allows them to
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  Speaker 1: trust and believe in the good of a relationship and
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  Speaker 1: of sexuality. But we can readily make every demand on
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  Speaker 1: our time, every possibility in which we should be sacrificing
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  Speaker 1: for our kids, really interfere with creating a space in
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  Speaker 1: which the couple itself can thrive. And I think it's
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  Speaker 1: exceptionally important.
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  Speaker 2: So how do we get there? We've talked about creating
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  Speaker 2: a relationship where specifically the man doesn't think that he's
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  Speaker 2: the main show, but instead that he elevates his wife
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  Speaker 2: or partner so that she becomes taking care of I guess,
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  Speaker 2: and has that opportunity to be desired. We've talked about
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  Speaker 2: the different kinds of desire. You've highlighted the importance of play.
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  Speaker 2: How does an exhausted couple who's running around after the kids,
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  Speaker 2: trying to juggle two jobs meet inflationary pressures and mortgage
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  Speaker 2: payments and rents and all those sorts of things. How
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  Speaker 2: do they find the capacity to elevate one another and
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  Speaker 2: be responsive to one another in the wonderful, intimate way
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  Speaker 2: that you've described, when everything just feels so pressured all
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  Speaker 2: the time and everyone's exhausted and struggling.
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  Speaker 1: If you think of it as one more thing we
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  Speaker 1: need to do, Okay, we got to make time because
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  Speaker 1: that's okay. Well, now you've just added another thing to
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  Speaker 1: your list that could easily be related to as another
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  Speaker 1: version of depletion.
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  Speaker 2: It feels burdensome, doesn't it.
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  Speaker 1: It can now. I think if you think of it
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  Speaker 1: more in terms of we have to have sex, okay,
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  Speaker 1: or else our relationships over, I think it instead of
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  Speaker 1: thinking of it like that, is how do we create
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  Speaker 1: a space of rejuvenation for the two of us? Is
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  Speaker 1: there a way to carve out an opportunity to be
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  Speaker 1: a couple? Right? And I remember in the thick of
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  Speaker 1: when my kids were very small, I had a special
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  Speaker 1: needs child. It was it was hard to justify doing
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  Speaker 1: anything for myself right because, and legitimately so, it was
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  Speaker 1: intensive time. There was a lot to be done. But
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  Speaker 1: on the other hand, keeping a marriage and a sense
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  Speaker 1: of self strong enough during that difficult time means it's
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  Speaker 1: worth sacrificing for and making space to go and watch
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  Speaker 1: that movie together, go get dinner, even if it's once
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  Speaker 1: every four months, but have a meaning during times when
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  Speaker 1: it's economically or logistically difficult, to try and create space
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  Speaker 1: to remember you're a person, you're a woman, you're a
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  Speaker 1: man first, right a couple seconds, and parents third, And
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  Speaker 1: to just cultivate that space to remember, because it also
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  Speaker 1: turns you into a better parent and a better partner.
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  Speaker 1: You know. I remember during a time when my kids
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  Speaker 1: were it was it was an intensive period, right, you know.
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  Speaker 1: I was home, I had a specialty child, I was pregnant,
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  Speaker 1: and I had an additional child. And I love architecture
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  Speaker 1: and design, and we were going to renovate our house,
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  Speaker 1: and so I remember feeling kind of guilty leaving my
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  Speaker 1: kids with a sitter and going out to choose countertops.
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  Speaker 1: But it was so thrilling to do that, you know,
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  Speaker 1: Like it's like I loved that. I love the design
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  Speaker 1: part of it, the creative part of it, than the
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  Speaker 1: experience of having a kitchen that would actually be functional.
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  Speaker 1: And I remember coming back from those two hours away
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  Speaker 1: and thinking, look, they had two great hours with the
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  Speaker 1: babysitter who loved playing with them. I came back feeling
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  Speaker 1: filled up by this experience of an accessing another part
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  Speaker 1: of myself, and I was more excited to see them
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  Speaker 1: than I would have been. Right, my point is, it
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  Speaker 1: was like, it's not a zero sum game, and so
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  Speaker 1: cultivating this is not related to a couple, but cultivating
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  Speaker 1: time to be with one another, to be a partnership,
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  Speaker 1: facilitate strength in the other domain.
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  Speaker 2: Who would have thought that kitchen countertops could be so
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  Speaker 2: stimulating feel good.
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  Speaker 1: Totally, these are some nice countertops.
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  Speaker 2: I'm telling turning does really strange things to Fayful. It
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  Speaker 2: really does, Jennifer. I have two more questions for you.
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  Speaker 1: Sure.
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  Speaker 2: One of them is a really practical question. I receive
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  Speaker 2: a lot of emails from people when they want us
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  Speaker 2: to answer questions on the podcast, and around about a
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  Speaker 2: year ago, I got an email. I don't even have
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  Speaker 2: access to it anymore, but I chose not to answer
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  Speaker 2: it because I just didn't really know where to go
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  Speaker 2: with it. I couldn't see it turning into a full
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  Speaker 2: podcast episode. It was a little bit too It was
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  Speaker 2: just what I thought would be a two or three
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  Speaker 2: minute answer, and that was it. But now that I've
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  Speaker 2: got you here, I think that you're the perfect person
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  Speaker 2: to answer it. And the question was, and I'm paraphrasing,
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  Speaker 2: A mum wrote in and said that her child, her
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  Speaker 2: six year old child, had walked into the bedroom, the
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  Speaker 2: door wasn't locked, her and her husband were being intimate
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  Speaker 2: at the time, and she just wanted to know what
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  Speaker 2: do I say? Do I ignore it, do I pretend
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  Speaker 2: it didn't happen? How do I respond to this? I'd
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  Speaker 2: love to get your take on that before I sort
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  Speaker 2: of wrap up the podcast.
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  Speaker 1: Well, it's a good question. I mean, it depends a
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  Speaker 1: little bit on First of all, I do think you
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  Speaker 1: should dress because your child is going to be confused
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  Speaker 1: and might even be afraid. Right, and because it can
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  Speaker 1: depends on what exactly they saw.
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  Speaker 2: Was pretty skinny on details there, Yes, exactly.
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  Speaker 1: Remember a coworker of mine was saying that his child
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  Speaker 1: walked in and and and so we went back into
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  Speaker 1: the bedroom and he asked his son his like, I
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  Speaker 1: think it was about six year old, five year old,
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  Speaker 1: you know, if he had seen mommy and daddy. And
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  Speaker 1: he said yes, And he said, were you doing push
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  Speaker 1: ups on top of mommy. Okay, so is the way
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  Speaker 1: of making sense of it, right, And so I think
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  Speaker 1: it's important to talk about it and say, you know,
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  Speaker 1: it's it's maybe a little bit confusing, but this is
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  Speaker 1: a way of mom and dad loving each other. It's
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  Speaker 1: a way, it's like a grown up kind of hug
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  Speaker 1: that's pleasurable and enjoyable, even if it's hard to understand,
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  Speaker 1: and someday you will understand it. So partly why I
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  Speaker 1: think is important is just helping their minds to kind
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  Speaker 1: of make some sense of it at a level that
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  Speaker 1: they can understand, and even to give them the caveat
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  Speaker 1: that someday you'll understand it better. But this is something
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  Speaker 1: it's a way of mom and dad being close, expressing
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  Speaker 1: love for one another. And that I'm sorry that you
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  Speaker 1: that you witnessed it because it can be a little confusing,
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  Speaker 1: but someday you'll understand better what it is and why
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  Speaker 1: it's such a favorable thing. Right.
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  Speaker 2: And so presumably if your child were older, let's say,
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  Speaker 2: twelve fourteen, something like that, and they stumbled into the bedroom, yeah,
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  Speaker 2: you wouldn't you wouldn't necessarily apologize that it's confusing you
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  Speaker 2: would just say we need to lock the door more often.
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  Speaker 2: We didn't realize you were going to be home, and
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  Speaker 2: obviously you know that we love each other a lot,
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  Speaker 2: like is that yeah, you kind of.
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  Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I'm sorry you had to experience it, not
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  Speaker 1: because there's anything bad about it, but because it's a
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  Speaker 1: boundary that you know, you know, kids want to maybe
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  Speaker 1: know their parents love each other, but don't want to
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  Speaker 1: witness that love. Right.
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  Speaker 2: Thanks for thanks for sharing that. So I guess the
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  Speaker 2: last thing that I want to ask you was what
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  Speaker 2: do you wish more people understood? Just in a nutshell
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  Speaker 2: the top three things, or maybe just the top one thing.
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  Speaker 2: What do you wish more people understood when it comes
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  Speaker 2: to a healthy intimate life.
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  Speaker 1: Well, just that sexuality and desire are important in a
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  Speaker 1: marriage unless it's been explicitly negotiated out of the marriage.
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  Speaker 1: So that is to say, in modern marriage, we marry
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  Speaker 1: under the assumption of desire, and that's how we choose
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  Speaker 1: a partner, usually unless we're in an arranged marriage or
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  Speaker 1: some other non typical Western marriage. That is, of all
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  Speaker 1: my options, I desire you, and I want to bring
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  Speaker 1: my desire and sexuality here and expect you to do
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  Speaker 1: the same, to not bring it outside of the marriage.
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  Speaker 1: But then, while that often feels good to us at
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  Speaker 1: its inception, right especially our partner bringing their sexuality nowhere
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  Speaker 1: else at least, the challenges of creating a good sexual
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  Speaker 1: relationship and creating something that is more intimate, that is,
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  Speaker 1: that allows us to grow into people capable of creating
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  Speaker 1: a mutually satisfying sexual relationship are often challenging enough that
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  Speaker 1: we start to neglect addressing that relationship and we think, oh,
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  Speaker 1: this is just superficial and we're no longer twenty and
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  Speaker 1: the kids are more important, And a way of dealing
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  Speaker 1: with some of our anxieties around this is to be
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  Speaker 1: negligent or indulgent towards it and not treat it with
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  Speaker 1: the respect it deserves. And I'm not saying, oh, gosh,
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  Speaker 1: that means you should just put out because otherwise he's
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  Speaker 1: going to go. I'm not that idea. But how do
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  Speaker 1: we attend to what's going on here to keep this
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  Speaker 1: relationship thriving and keep its foundations stable even in the
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  Speaker 1: many other good endeavors that we do. And because it's
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  Speaker 1: a part of its foundational creation, it's worthy of our
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  Speaker 1: engagement it's worthy of our attention to address it, and
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  Speaker 1: it's good for our children when we.
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  Speaker 2: Do that, and it's good for us, good for our family.
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  Speaker 2: It's just absolutely ye Doctor Jennifer Finlayson Fife. The podcast
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  Speaker 2: that you can hear, it's literally when this one drops
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: into my feed every week or every fortnotther whenever it lands.
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  Speaker 2: Obviously it's it's not one hundred percent weekly, but whenever
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: it drops in, it's the one that I listened to immediately.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: The podcast is called Conversations with Doctor Jennifer. Look it
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: up wherever you get your podcasts. On top of that, though, Jennifer,
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  Speaker 2: you also have another podcast that people can subscribe to
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: to get some much more I guess, in depth content.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: That's right. So it's just called Room for Two. And
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: I'm working with couples who have pseudonyms and there's some
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: voice distortion, but they're bringing up really typical marital issues
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: around emotional intimacy, sexual intimacy, issues within laws and itssues
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: with finances and so on. And I'm working with that
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: couple for others to listen in, and people have found
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: it to be really helpful because it allows them the
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: chance to listen in and both find it normalizing, like,
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  Speaker 1: oh my gosh, that is so us. We do the
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  Speaker 1: same thing. But then also to hear my input and
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  Speaker 1: get that vicarious help start to see this is what
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  Speaker 1: we're doing in our sexual relationship and this is why
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  Speaker 1: it's not been going so well for us, and hey,
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  Speaker 1: I realize I need to change this part of what
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  Speaker 1: I'm doing. And so it's a it's been a So
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  Speaker 1: it's a valuable tool for learning how to be a
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  Speaker 1: better partner, how to create a better sexual relationship, and.
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  Speaker 2: So yeah, I love it. So conversations with doctor Jennifer
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: and Room for two we will link to both of
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: those in the show notes. In addition, when I was
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: emailing backwards and Folds with Christy, your wonderful assistant, she
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: indicated that you wanted to offer a freebie, a very
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: brief free course to help couples who have enjoyed this conversation.
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  Speaker 1: So it's just something we give out periodically. It's a
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: e course. It's about thirty minutes long, called tennists that
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: are destroying your sex life. So if you found it helpful,
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: it's just kind of right. Think about this. There's a
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: lot of ideas, you know, one of being like sex
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  Speaker 1: is for the man, Okay. So it's helping people understand
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  Speaker 1: some of these inherited ideas that they may unwittingly be
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  Speaker 1: living out but is actually undermining the very thing they're
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: trying to make better. So it's a free course and
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: I think if you submit an email, we'll send you
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: that course.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: That e course for free, fabulous Ten Myths that Are
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: Killing Your Sex Life. We will again provide all the
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: information necessary for that in the show notes. What a
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: great conversation. I think it's been so valuable. Great to
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: be with you. Thank you again, doctor.
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  Speaker 1: Jenner, thanks for having me my pleasure.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: Jennifer Finlayson Fife is a licensed clinical professional counselor, relationship
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: and sexuality educator with a PhD in Counseling Psychology from
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: Boston College. You can find more about her at Finlayson
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: hyphen Fife. That's Finlayson Hyphenfife dot com. Finlayson hyphenfif dot com.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: We'll link to it in the show notes, as well
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: as her two podcasts and her free course Ten Myths
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: that Are Killing Your Sex Life. The Happy Families podcast
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: is produced by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media. Craig Bruce
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: is our executive producer and for more about making your
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: family happier, stay listening to a Happy Families Podcasts for
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: more tomorrow, and check out our Facebook page Doctor Justin
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: Colson's Happy Families