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SAVANNAH GUTHRIE MOM MISSING: DAY 25 · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
0:06
Speaker 2: De Van of Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie missing day twenty five,
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Speaker 2: with FBI finally involved late to the party because of
0:16
Speaker 2: a late invitation. I might add sheriff's boots on the ground,
0:21
Speaker 2: the latest in technology.
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Speaker 3: How is this happening?
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Speaker 2: Could the porch guy out smart a host of law enforcement?
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Speaker 4: This?
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Speaker 2: As we learn searches extending with volunteers who.
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Speaker 3: Refused to give up.
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Speaker 2: We are also learning that contrary to speculation that Nancy
0:44
Speaker 2: Guthrie answered the door and allowed the perp in, she
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Speaker 2: was actually physically removed forcibly removed from her own bed,
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Speaker 2: A little old lady dragged out of her own bed.
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Speaker 2: We're learning that, as we also understand, Savannah Guthrie wanted
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Speaker 2: to offer the one million dollar reward on day one,
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Speaker 2: but apparently Nanos said no, I'm Nancy Grace, this is
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Speaker 2: Crime Stories.
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Speaker 3: I want to thank you for being with us.
1:19
Speaker 5: Our mom was taken in the dark of night from
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Speaker 5: her bed, and every long night has been agony since then.
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Speaker 2: Whoever knows about Nancy Guthrie's whereabout that sees that and
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Speaker 2: does not act, must have a heart of stone.
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Speaker 5: Please be the light in the dark.
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Speaker 2: There has been a lot of speculation that it is
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Speaker 2: actually victim blaming, that Nancy Guthrie went to the front
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Speaker 2: door and allowed her kidnapper to come in.
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Speaker 3: Nothing could be further from the truth.
2:01
Speaker 2: Straight out to Dave Matt Crime Stories investigative reporter, Dave,
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Speaker 2: we now know that in those critical forty one minutes
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Speaker 2: forty one minutes, at least one PERP was in Nancy
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Speaker 2: Guthrie's home. And this is an important fact and it
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Speaker 2: can prove something. It's probative. We now know that Nancy
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Speaker 2: Guthrie was forced out of her own bed, lying there
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Speaker 2: asleep around two o'clock in the morning, an.
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Speaker 3: Eighty four year old woman.
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Speaker 1: What do we know?
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Speaker 6: We know that when Savannah Guthrie posted the video the
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Speaker 6: other day, it was so shocking Delta Fill missed what
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Speaker 6: she said.
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Speaker 7: She said that.
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Speaker 6: Her mother was taken from her bed in the middle
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Speaker 6: of the night. That tells us everything that we originally
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Speaker 6: thought that the intruder or intruders came into the home,
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Speaker 6: snuck into her room, awakened her out of a dead sleep,
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Speaker 6: and took this eighty four year old grandmother out of
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Speaker 6: her own bed. What it does also tell us Nancy
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Speaker 6: is that we might have forensic evidence left behind on
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Speaker 6: the bed, in the bedroom, on the floor, on the nightstand.
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Speaker 6: There's no any wonder of places where our kidnapper or
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Speaker 6: kidnappers could have touched, dropped, felt, anything, but again taken
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Speaker 6: out of her bedroom. Think about that for a minute.
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Speaker 6: Eighty four years old and you're pulled out of bed.
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Speaker 6: It's not an easy trip.
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Speaker 3: Joining us.
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Speaker 2: Misty gillis DNA expert investigative genetic genealogist at Purrabon Nano Labs.
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Speaker 2: This is one of their specialties at Pirabon.
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Speaker 3: They focus on very.
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Speaker 2: Difficult cases like a minuscule amount of DNA, degraded DNA,
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Speaker 2: a mixture of DNA.
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Speaker 3: When you are, Missy, thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 2: When you hear the latest that Nancy was taken out
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Speaker 2: off her bed forcibly taken. What DNA possibilities does that
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Speaker 2: open up in your mind?
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Speaker 8: What opens up the possibility of there being traced amounts
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Speaker 8: of DNA found in that bedroom area like it was said,
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Speaker 8: Possibly it was a nightstand that was touched. Possibly the
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Speaker 8: forcible removal of Nancy had left priest DNA in that
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Speaker 8: bedroom area. There must be a reason investigators are exactly
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Speaker 8: saying that it was the bedroom she was taken from,
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Speaker 8: versus answering her door.
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Speaker 3: You know, I'm thinking through what we know now.
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Speaker 2: What did the perp do in those critical forty one minutes.
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Speaker 2: First of all, we know he got in. We see
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Speaker 2: him coming in the front door. We know that when
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Speaker 2: he left the door remained unlocked. We don't know if
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Speaker 2: it was locked when he entered. But to Mike Gould
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Speaker 2: joining us for now, I saw a county lieutenant. Founding
5:02
Speaker 2: member of the New York Police Department K nine unit
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Speaker 2: has led multiple multiple investigations into missing people and even
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Speaker 2: serial killers, including gilgo Beach, former National Guard, and worked
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Speaker 2: with the Secret Service with two presidents. Mike Gould, thank
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Speaker 2: you for being with us. Let's just try to walk through.
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Speaker 3: Now.
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Speaker 2: What I would always do on a crime scene is first,
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Speaker 2: take off my shoes, put on booties if we had them,
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Speaker 2: and walk in very slowly. Why slowly, because I wanted
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Speaker 2: to look around. If I had the route the perp
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Speaker 2: took step by step. With each step or two, I
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Speaker 2: would stop and look around because there might be a
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Speaker 2: light switch, there might be a surface that could be touched,
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Speaker 2: all sorts of possibilities open up if you look and
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Speaker 2: take your time. So we know he comes in through
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Speaker 2: We think through that door. At least one purp comes
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Speaker 2: in through the front door. What would you do with
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Speaker 2: the knowledge that the first thing the perp does is
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Speaker 2: go to Nancy Guthrie's room and forcibly removes her from
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Speaker 2: her bed. We think that's the first thing he did.
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Speaker 2: Maybe he checked to see if the nanny cams were
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Speaker 2: working inside the home. We know there were nannycams. So
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Speaker 2: help us retrace what the purp did in those crucial
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Speaker 2: forty one minutes and what evidence we can get from that,
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Speaker 2: such as touch DNA.
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Speaker 9: Prime scene investigation is both an art and a science,
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Speaker 9: and as you quite correctly said, Nancy, Nancy, it has
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Speaker 9: to be methodically done and evidence has to be preserved.
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Speaker 9: I have been critical of the sheriff in this case
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Speaker 9: from day one, and I got criticism from my fellow
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Speaker 9: colleagues and law enforcement for doing that. It is not
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Speaker 9: a criticism of the investigators, it's not a criticism of
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Speaker 9: the FBI.
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Speaker 4: It's the criticism not personal. This sheriff is not a
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Speaker 4: trained public information officer. He's not familiar with media relations
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Speaker 4: and he just shouldn't be spouting out and blaming the
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Speaker 4: media for overreacting and so forth. So my criticism hasn't changed.
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Speaker 4: I don't the analysis has not changed at all if
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Speaker 4: you think about what has changed in the last almost
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Speaker 4: month now as far as evidence is concerned.
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Speaker 2: When you think and try to retrace what the perp
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Speaker 2: did upon entering Nancy Guthrie's home, that's what I want
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Speaker 2: to focus on. I want to focus on getting evidence.
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Speaker 2: For instance, mister gillis back to you DNA expert eight
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Speaker 2: years with over forty positive lads generated in cold and
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Speaker 2: act of cases. That is a lot that's cracking a
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Speaker 2: case about once a week.
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Speaker 3: That's pretty impressive in your line of work.
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Speaker 2: What difference would it make, for instance, if Nancy Guthrie
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Speaker 2: had hardwood or carpet, tablecloths or no tablecloths, choch keys
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Speaker 2: sitting around, little items and figurines or none, a dog,
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Speaker 2: a cat or no dog or cat. All of these
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Speaker 2: things equal evidence.
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Speaker 8: Explain, Misty, You're gonna want to look at those most
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Speaker 8: more porous samples. There's a device called an mback that's
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Speaker 8: essentially a wet vacuum that will pull DNA and forensic
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Speaker 8: evidence from those porous surfaces.
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Speaker 4: So if there was something like.
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Speaker 8: Carpeted flooring and he wasn't wearing booties, he say had
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Speaker 8: touched the carpet, touched the bedding, touched to the pillow,
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Speaker 8: that MBACT could pull that DNA evidence from that porous surface.
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Speaker 8: When it gets to more non poor surfaces like hardwood
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Speaker 8: and things like that, this.
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Speaker 2: Can still be Okay, So down just a second, Misty,
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Speaker 2: if you don't mind, I want to make sure I
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Speaker 2: understand everything that you just said. And that was a
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Speaker 2: lot you were talking about the bedding. Okay, Now, now
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Speaker 2: you've gotten past the door. If her door was closed,
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Speaker 2: then he touched the doorknob. He very likely turned on
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Speaker 2: the light switch. He may have touched the bed frame
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Speaker 2: itself or her bedside table. He may have touched her
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Speaker 2: cell phone, which we understand was near her bedside that
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Speaker 2: was left behind. Okay, so we've gotten past that, and
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Speaker 2: I'll circle back to carpet, hardwood, pet, no pet, chotsky,
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Speaker 2: figurine sitting.
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Speaker 3: Around or none. I want to circle back to that.
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Speaker 3: You've taken me to straight to the bedroom. So we have.
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Speaker 2: Gone from the front door. Suddenly we're in the bedroom.
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Speaker 8: Okay, what so walking in the door, there could be
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Speaker 8: carpet on the ground.
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Speaker 4: There could be hardwood flooring.
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Speaker 8: If there's carpet to poorus sample, that could an ENDBAC
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Speaker 8: could be used on to collect DNA from. There could
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Speaker 8: be a touch on a light switch. There could be
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Speaker 8: a touch on a table. There could be objects that
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Speaker 8: are touched that could be swabbed for that trace DNA.
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Speaker 8: Now as he makes his way throughout the house, there
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Speaker 8: could be multiple touch points. There could be a railing
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Speaker 8: on the stairs, There could be a wall that could
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Speaker 8: be touched. Those are surfaces that could be swabbed for
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Speaker 8: that trace DNA as well. And then once he enters
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Speaker 8: the bedroom, again we have things like light switches, we
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Speaker 8: have a nightstand, we have the possible headboard.
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Speaker 4: If he did physically remove her.
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Speaker 8: From the bed, there could be DNA that's left on
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Speaker 8: that bedding, on those pillowcases, on her cellphone that perhaps
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Speaker 8: was on.
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Speaker 4: The night stand.
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Speaker 8: These are all areas that need to be looked.
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Speaker 4: Back for that.
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Speaker 1: Crime stores with Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 2: We're talking about in the banning, they cover the sheets,
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Speaker 2: the pillow case. How do you get DNA off of
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Speaker 2: that as opposed to a hard surface.
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Speaker 8: What we would typically use is a device called an MBAC.
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Speaker 8: It's a wet vacuum that is used to essentially go
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Speaker 8: over the surface. Think of you a carpet cleaner, but
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Speaker 8: it's specifically made with a filter that collects DNA and
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Speaker 8: that filter can be swabbed and a profile can be
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Speaker 8: developed from what was collected from that bedding.
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Speaker 4: For example.
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Speaker 2: Now let me understand that MBAT would be used on
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Speaker 2: a poorous surface such as the betting. Is that what
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Speaker 2: you're saying, yes, as opposed to what would you use
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Speaker 2: on a hard surface such as her night table.
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Speaker 8: Traditional collection on most surfaces would be swabbing of the
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Speaker 8: surface to collect DNA to generate a profile.
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Speaker 3: Forty one minutes in the home.
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Speaker 2: Joining us in addition to Dave mac Mike Gould, and
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Speaker 2: Misty Gillis is Scott Aiker, former FBI cast member, former
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Speaker 2: homicide with Norfolk, Virginia Police Department, now at Precision Cellular
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Speaker 2: Analysis PCA experts dot Com.
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Speaker 3: Skye thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 2: It's very wrenching to think Nancy Guthrie sound asleep getting yanked.
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Speaker 3: Out of her bed at two o'clock in the morning.
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Speaker 2: That gives me a lot of ideas about the profile
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Speaker 2: of the defendant.
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Speaker 7: I agree. When Savannah said yesterday that her mother was
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Speaker 7: taken from the bed, that really just kind of lit
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Speaker 7: up in my head. Is that, Wow, she didn't answer
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Speaker 7: the door. That was a targeted situation where they actually
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Speaker 7: went to her room. Probably had to get her dressed
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Speaker 7: if they were going to take her out. She's probably
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Speaker 7: in a nightgown. So what are they doing there for
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Speaker 7: that forty one minutes? That's a lot of time. I mean,
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Speaker 7: you're dealing with an elderly lady. Obviously, they're obviously leaving
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Speaker 7: more DNA in there the law longer they're staying in
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Speaker 7: the house. But from my aspect, forty one minutes in
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Speaker 7: that area, that helps me narrow down the amount of
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Speaker 7: phones that are being used by the cell phone towers
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Speaker 7: in the area. Now I'm not just looking for it
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Speaker 7: maybe a car that drove through in five minutes. I'm
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Speaker 7: looking for at bone that was there for thirty forty
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Speaker 7: minutes an hour. If they were there ahead of time,
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Speaker 7: that helps me narrow down the phones that I'm going
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Speaker 7: to concentrate on and try to identify.
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Speaker 3: Okay, let me see Scott Ker Scott.
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Speaker 2: Not everyone is familiar with the cellular it nowly it's
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Speaker 2: a survey team.
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Speaker 3: I'd heard of it, but I first.
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Speaker 2: Learned a lot about it during the Alex Murdock double
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Speaker 2: murder trial. Remember when the Secret Service guy had to
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Speaker 2: come down about craiking open one of the cell phones
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Speaker 2: that said CASS has been responsible for getting obtaining a
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Speaker 2: lot of information. In this case you were talking about,
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Speaker 2: You're not looking for a phone that was just circling
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Speaker 2: the area, maybe making a delivery or driving home late
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Speaker 2: at night. You're looking for a phone that was in
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Speaker 2: the area for those forty one minutes.
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Speaker 3: What exactly would you be looking for.
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Speaker 7: Well, we know all the phones, if the personal phones
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Speaker 7: and phones in cars, they could touch the network constantly,
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Speaker 7: either through data sessions or phone calls or text messages.
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Speaker 7: So we can look at this tower dump. That's basically
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Speaker 7: asking the phone companies, all three of the major ones,
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Speaker 7: to give us all the phones that use the towers
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Speaker 7: that surround Nancy Guthrie's residence for a certain amount of
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Speaker 7: time frame and then what they might say two hours
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Speaker 7: before and after the crime. Now we've got thousands of
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Speaker 7: phones that were in that tower dump, and we have
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Speaker 7: to figure out how to narrow them down. That might
15:00
Speaker 7: be the residents that live there. That makes sense, they
15:03
Speaker 7: were there all night. The ones that came in quickly
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Speaker 7: and left might have been a delivery man.
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Speaker 4: The ones.
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Speaker 7: Now we can narrow it down a little bit further
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Speaker 7: because we're thinking that the suspects were there for at
15:16
Speaker 7: least forty forty five minutes, maybe even longer based on them,
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Speaker 7: you know, parking and coming up to the house. So
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Speaker 7: that helps us narrow down the phones and vehicles and
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Speaker 7: other devices, so we can hopefully identify a suspect.
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Speaker 5: Hi there, coming on to say, it is day twenty
15:38
Speaker 5: four since our mom was taken in the dark of
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Speaker 5: night from her bed, and every hour and minute and
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Speaker 5: second and every long night has been agony since then,
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Speaker 5: of worrying about her, and fearing for her, and aching
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Speaker 5: for her, and most of all just missing her.
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Speaker 3: Is missing her.
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Speaker 5: We know that millions of you have been praying. So
16:15
Speaker 5: many people have been praying of every faith and no
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Speaker 5: faith at all, praying for her return, and we feel
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Speaker 5: those prayers. Please keep praying without ceasing. We still believe,
16:29
Speaker 5: we still believe in a miracle, We still believe that
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Speaker 5: she can come home. Hope against hope. As my sister says,
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Speaker 5: we are blowing on the embers of hope.
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Speaker 3: We also know that.
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Speaker 5: She may be lost, She may already be gone. She
16:55
Speaker 5: may have already gone home to the Lord that she
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Speaker 5: loves and is dancing in heaven with her mom and
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Speaker 5: her dad and with her beloved brother Peers, and with
17:08
Speaker 5: our daddy. And if this is what is to be,
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Speaker 5: then we will accept it. But we need to know
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Speaker 5: where she is. We need her to come home. For
17:28
Speaker 5: that reason, we are offering a family reward of up
17:33
Speaker 5: to one million dollars for any information that leads us
17:39
Speaker 5: to her recovery. All of the information about this reward
17:45
Speaker 5: and the details is in the cash below. You can
17:50
Speaker 5: call the one eight hundred tip line. You can be
17:52
Speaker 5: anonymous if you want. Someone out there knows something that
18:00
Speaker 5: can bring her home. Somebody knows. We are begging you
18:05
Speaker 5: to please come forward. Now. We also know that we
18:12
Speaker 5: are not alone in our loss. We know there are
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Speaker 5: millions of families that have suffered with this kind of uncertainty,
18:24
Speaker 5: and for that reason, today we also are donating five
18:29
Speaker 5: hundred thousand dollars to the National Center for Missing and
18:34
Speaker 5: Exploited Children for their work and helping families who are
18:39
Speaker 5: coping with loss and actively looking for those who are lost.
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Speaker 5: We are hoping that the attention that has been given
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Speaker 5: to our mom and our family will extend to all
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Speaker 5: the families like ours who are in need and need
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Speaker 5: prayers and need support. So please, if you hear this message,
19:05
Speaker 5: if you've been waiting and you haven't been sure, let
19:08
Speaker 5: this be your sign to please come forward, tell what
19:12
Speaker 5: you know, and help us bring our beloved mom home
19:17
Speaker 5: so that we can either celebrate a glorious, miraculous homecoming
19:22
Speaker 5: or celebrate the beautiful, brave, and courageous and noble life
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Speaker 5: that she has lived.
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Speaker 3: Please be the.
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Speaker 5: Light in the dark.
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Speaker 3: Thank you.
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Speaker 2: Savanna Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie, missing.
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Speaker 5: Fearing for her, baking for her, and most of all,
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Speaker 5: just missing her.
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Speaker 1: Missing her.
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Speaker 2: That's almost all we have is the video of the
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Speaker 2: porch guy. But I guarantee you it's not all there is.
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Speaker 3: Is there more video?
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Speaker 2: Is it being scratched right now? We believe it is
20:08
Speaker 2: straight back out to Scott, like her joining us from
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Speaker 2: Precision Cellular Analysis.
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Speaker 3: Scott, you were talking about not.
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Speaker 2: Just snagging cell phones in the area, but now you're
20:19
Speaker 2: looking for a cell phone that was in her residence
20:22
Speaker 2: for forty one minutes, unlike a smart watch. And we've
20:27
Speaker 2: saw evidence of this in the Barry Morphew trial. His
20:30
Speaker 2: wife Susanne Morphew was murdered and her bone, her remains
20:35
Speaker 2: thrown in a so called burial ground boneyard in a
20:38
Speaker 2: remote area. But according to the prosecution in that case
20:42
Speaker 2: is yet to be proven. He's innocent ntil proven guilty.
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Speaker 2: They could track and I've seen other cases like this.
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Speaker 2: They could track movements of victim or defendant by their
20:57
Speaker 2: smart watch and according to the prosecution in that case,
21:02
Speaker 2: could see a chase ensuing in the home.
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Speaker 1: Before Susanne Morphew was killed.
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Speaker 2: Another case like that was Richard Debate, and he insisted
21:17
Speaker 2: to police that armed intruders entered his home, tied him up,
21:24
Speaker 2: murdered his wife, and he miraculously survived. There was no theft,
21:30
Speaker 2: there was no rape. But when police tested the evidence
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Speaker 2: scientifically the smart watch, it showed his wife up walking
21:41
Speaker 2: around the house long after he told police she had
21:45
Speaker 2: been shot dead long after and there have been many
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Speaker 2: other cases.
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Speaker 3: Has just two examples.
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Speaker 2: That you can find evidence of to prove what happened
21:58
Speaker 2: with Nancy Guthrie what I'm talking about. We don't know
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Speaker 2: if she had on a smart watch, And we don't
22:03
Speaker 2: know if the purp had on a smart watch, one
22:06
Speaker 2: of the purps. Because I'm convinced there's an accomplice. I
22:10
Speaker 2: also am convinced that the purps were wearing watches. We
22:15
Speaker 2: know they had walkie talkies because there's one jutting out
22:19
Speaker 2: of the porch guy's pocket there.
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Speaker 3: You go, Thank you that right, yes, thank you. When
22:25
Speaker 3: we blow that up, it's a walkie talkie.
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Speaker 2: But don't you know if they outfitted themselves in this manner,
22:33
Speaker 2: look at that. Yes, if they outfitted themselves in this manner,
22:36
Speaker 2: and they had the walkie talkies, and they came with
22:39
Speaker 2: the bite light, and they came with the backpack stuffed
22:43
Speaker 2: to the gills, they were probably keeping the.
22:46
Speaker 3: Time right now.
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Speaker 2: I guarantee you they ain't using a TIMEX. So if
22:55
Speaker 2: they had a smart watch, help me out icher.
23:00
Speaker 3: Throw me a bone here? What can I do with
23:02
Speaker 3: a smart watch?
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Speaker 7: We've seen that in numerous cases smart watches fitbits. Any
23:09
Speaker 7: of those devices can help investigators narrow down times, all
23:13
Speaker 7: of locational information. If it has a cellular connection. Like
23:18
Speaker 7: my watch is a smart watch, an Apple Watch, it
23:21
Speaker 7: also has its own cellular connections. So that's a whole
23:23
Speaker 7: other device that the investigators from CASTS can track via
23:29
Speaker 7: the tower dumps. Now there are devices that just have
23:32
Speaker 7: Wi Fi and my watch didn't have cellular. Google can
23:38
Speaker 7: track that based on Wi Fi connections in the area.
23:43
Speaker 7: So there's a lot of different ways for us to
23:45
Speaker 7: get additional data. But it's a vast amount of stuff
23:50
Speaker 7: to deal with, so it has to be narrowed down
23:52
Speaker 7: and that takes time.
23:53
Speaker 3: Okay.
23:54
Speaker 2: See when you just throw at a bomb like that,
23:57
Speaker 2: you think I'm not going to follow up on that.
24:00
Speaker 2: That's why we have something called re cross examination. Okay, Scott.
24:05
Speaker 2: Remember we're mere mortals. We don't work at precisions cellular analysis.
24:10
Speaker 2: We weren't on CAST, we didn't found the Cellular Analysis
24:13
Speaker 2: Survey team like you did. So you got to slow
24:16
Speaker 2: it down. Slow down, Nelly, I need to hear everything
24:19
Speaker 2: you just said. Just be glad you're not a medical examiner.
24:22
Speaker 2: In one of my cases, they would hide under their
24:26
Speaker 2: desk when they saw my beat up Honda pulling up.
24:30
Speaker 2: I need to understand what you just said. Now, First
24:32
Speaker 2: of all. Can a smart watch be tracked as easily
24:37
Speaker 2: as a cell phone or is it a whole different animal.
24:42
Speaker 7: If it has cellular connection like my watch does, it
24:45
Speaker 7: has its own cell phone in it, it can be
24:48
Speaker 7: tracked just like a cell phone.
24:50
Speaker 3: Well, are there smart watches that don't have cell connections?
24:54
Speaker 7: Yes, there's a lot of them that just have a
24:56
Speaker 7: Bluetooth connection to your phone.
24:58
Speaker 2: Well, if they just to have a Bluetooth connection to
25:01
Speaker 2: your phone, can that be tracked?
25:04
Speaker 7: It's tougher. If it's part of the phone and connection
25:09
Speaker 7: to the phone via Bluetooth, and it's logged into your
25:13
Speaker 7: account like a Google account as a device, then Google can,
25:19
Speaker 7: if you give Google permission, provide locational information on that device.
25:25
Speaker 2: Okay, hold on, hold on, I'm trying to make sense
25:27
Speaker 2: of what you're saying. You know, I can get a
25:29
Speaker 2: ton of evidence, but it's got to be marshaled. It
25:31
Speaker 2: has to make sense before you can use it. It's
25:34
Speaker 2: like you dump a big bag of clay that's nothing
25:41
Speaker 2: until I molded and work with it and understand what
25:45
Speaker 2: the evidence is so I can use it to prove something.
25:48
Speaker 2: So you're telling me if you've got a smart watch
25:53
Speaker 2: that is cellular you know, like people can send messages
25:57
Speaker 2: and so forth from their self from their.
25:58
Speaker 3: Watch that can be tracked like a cell phone. Is
26:02
Speaker 3: that correct?
26:04
Speaker 7: That is correct, just like a cell phone, Just like
26:09
Speaker 7: a cell phone.
26:12
Speaker 2: When cast is looking and trying to get the data
26:16
Speaker 2: dump of all the cell phones in the area, how
26:18
Speaker 2: does that show up as opposed to a cell phone.
26:24
Speaker 7: Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference in the data
26:27
Speaker 7: that we get from the phone company. There are some
26:29
Speaker 7: codes in the records from the phone company that kind
26:32
Speaker 7: of help us figure out if this phone number or
26:35
Speaker 7: this device ID is a phone, or a watch or
26:40
Speaker 7: a car. Because you remember, we're dealing with cars that
26:43
Speaker 7: have cell phones in them too, embedded into the body
26:47
Speaker 7: of the vehicle. So we have to kind of fold
26:51
Speaker 7: that data into and sort it based on different ideas
26:56
Speaker 7: of all right, this is a vehicle, this is a car,
27:00
Speaker 7: this is a phone, this is an iPad, And then
27:03
Speaker 7: we kind of try to narrow it down basis on
27:06
Speaker 7: time frames like we were talking about.
27:08
Speaker 2: Okay, so, but the reality is, Scott Ker, your set
27:13
Speaker 2: telling me is very hard when they're going through the
27:16
Speaker 2: data dump to tell if it's a cell phone, a
27:18
Speaker 2: Wi Fi car, like you connect, which comes in a
27:21
Speaker 2: lot of cars like my beat up Chryslo meniavan hasn't.
27:25
Speaker 3: Cell phone car smart watch.
27:29
Speaker 2: But the reality is is it doesn't matter which one
27:33
Speaker 2: it is. If it's there at the time she's kidnapped,
27:37
Speaker 2: for those critical forty one minutes they're on it, then
27:41
Speaker 2: they can sort out what it is. Okay, got it,
27:44
Speaker 2: So it can be tracked if it's connected to sell
27:48
Speaker 2: or it can be tracked if it's Bluetooth connection to
27:53
Speaker 2: a phone logged into an account okay.
27:57
Speaker 7: And Wi Fi and Wi Fi.
28:00
Speaker 2: Earlier, Scott I asked you if bluetooth use such as
28:05
Speaker 2: her pacemaker, could be picked up historically.
28:09
Speaker 3: In other words, does it have to be in the area.
28:12
Speaker 2: At that moment when the blue fly signal sniffer flies through,
28:18
Speaker 2: or can you retrace the bluetooth activity like we do
28:23
Speaker 2: a cell phone.
28:24
Speaker 3: Like I know, this is getting very.
28:26
Speaker 2: Technical and my wording is from is vernacular from a layperson,
28:31
Speaker 2: But what I'm trying to say is if the smart
28:34
Speaker 2: watch the perp was wearing was connected to Bluetooth at
28:38
Speaker 2: the time of the kidnapping, can you go back and
28:42
Speaker 2: see that or can you only identify Bluetooth activity if
28:46
Speaker 2: it's happening at the time you're searching.
28:50
Speaker 7: All right, You've got several different questions there, so let
28:53
Speaker 7: me try to cut that down a little bit. Bluetooth
28:58
Speaker 7: is a connection between two devices, right, and there are
29:02
Speaker 7: Bluetooth receivers in places like airports, subways, stuff like that,
29:08
Speaker 7: and some of that can be captured historically if it's locked.
29:14
Speaker 7: But that's not going to be the situation here. When
29:18
Speaker 7: we're dealing with trying to find Nancy Guthrie's pacemaker. We
29:22
Speaker 7: can't see anything historical. We're just out there searching with
29:25
Speaker 7: our Bluetooth sniffer scanner trying to see if we can
29:29
Speaker 7: pick up the you know, the remissions from that pacemaker
29:34
Speaker 7: every couple of seconds that it does.
29:36
Speaker 5: That.
29:37
Speaker 2: By the way, guys, that video we were just showing
29:38
Speaker 2: you with a signal sniffer, which is really high tech
29:41
Speaker 2: bluefly technology is from our friends.
29:43
Speaker 3: At Fox News.
29:46
Speaker 2: This is important and I want to say it correctly, Scott,
29:49
Speaker 2: so I'll have to have you repeat it correctly for me.
29:54
Speaker 2: If the was wearing a smart watch I watched it
29:58
Speaker 2: wasn't sell but was Bluetooth can cast FBI go back
30:07
Speaker 2: and identify it if it happened at the time of
30:10
Speaker 2: the kidnap.
30:11
Speaker 7: That is a possibility. And let me explain why Google
30:16
Speaker 7: tracks devices related to your account, either via Wi Fi, cellular, Bluetooth,
30:25
Speaker 7: or GPS. So if it's connected to his service, and
30:32
Speaker 7: you know, in this case, cast would go to Google
30:36
Speaker 7: and say, give us all devices in and around Nancy
30:41
Speaker 7: Guthrie's residence during this timeframe, and that's all devices, and
30:46
Speaker 7: that they Some of those devices could be phones, some
30:49
Speaker 7: of those could be watches, some of those could be
30:53
Speaker 7: you know, iPads with Wi Fi stuff like that. So
30:57
Speaker 7: there's a possibility, but there's a lot of limitations to it.
31:01
Speaker 1: Is that a yes or a no?
31:03
Speaker 4: That's a maybe?
31:05
Speaker 2: Okay, I was gonna give you that alternative, but I
31:07
Speaker 2: didn't want that alternative. I wanted to yes, but I
31:10
Speaker 2: didn't get it. So I'm gonna work with what I've got.
31:12
Speaker 2: Can I Can I remind you of something, Scott Iiker,
31:15
Speaker 2: Do you know the name Lacan Riley, the nursing student
31:20
Speaker 2: that went jogging at University of Georgia campus.
31:24
Speaker 3: And she was attacked and assaulted and murdered.
31:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was wondering if you remember that she had
31:34
Speaker 2: a garment garman smart watch on and that smart watch
31:42
Speaker 2: revealed her struggle to live, and it even showed when
31:47
Speaker 2: Lacan's heart stopped beating.
31:52
Speaker 3: So I remember or is it sel?
31:58
Speaker 7: It can be either.
32:01
Speaker 4: Oh no, that was.
32:04
Speaker 3: You're not helping me at all, iekr Uh.
32:08
Speaker 7: It could be seular or Bluetooth and Wi Fi. But
32:12
Speaker 7: that you know that that garment information was very important
32:15
Speaker 7: in that case because it showed her walking, gave her
32:19
Speaker 7: a location, gave her heartbeat. Even when the paramedics came
32:23
Speaker 7: by later and tried to revive her, they got they
32:26
Speaker 7: could reflect the garment reflected them doing CPR on her.
32:31
Speaker 7: Very important information for sir.
32:33
Speaker 2: And you've got a good memory iker, you know you
32:38
Speaker 2: ought to be with the FBI.
32:39
Speaker 3: Man.
32:40
Speaker 2: My point is, guys, this is how you prepare for
32:45
Speaker 2: a trial, or at least how I prepared for a trial.
32:48
Speaker 2: This is what you do before you put the witness
32:51
Speaker 2: on the stand. You hash out whatever probit of information
32:57
Speaker 2: they have. And what I've gotten from is that if
33:03
Speaker 2: the purpse and I guarantee you, they were synchronizing guarantee
33:07
Speaker 2: you with their walkie talkies and their ski masks and
33:11
Speaker 2: their devices that they brought with them, crammed into their backpack.
33:16
Speaker 2: They were all ready right, I guarantee you they were synchronizing.
33:21
Speaker 2: If they were, and I have reason to believe they were,
33:24
Speaker 2: they were wearing smart watches. And now Icher, who trust
33:29
Speaker 2: me knows what he's talking about, is telling me that
33:33
Speaker 2: those smart watches can be tracked just like sell phones,
33:38
Speaker 2: provided they have cellular and even if they're only Bluetooth,
33:43
Speaker 2: there's a chance.
33:44
Speaker 3: At that as well. What happened in that critical forty
33:49
Speaker 3: one minutes.
33:58
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
34:04
Speaker 5: Coming on to say, it is day twenty four since
34:08
Speaker 5: our mom was taken in the dark of night from
34:13
Speaker 5: her bed.
34:15
Speaker 2: We are learning a lot tonight about the search for
34:17
Speaker 2: Nancy Guthrie. We are learning that volunteer searches are going
34:22
Speaker 2: further toward Mexico. Also straight out to Dave Matt, Crime
34:27
Speaker 2: Story's investigative reporter, we know that the backpack that was
34:31
Speaker 2: found by a couple has been ruled out.
34:34
Speaker 6: Why it didn't fit any of the descriptions that were
34:38
Speaker 6: seen on the video on the porch, and they were
34:43
Speaker 6: able to investigators were able to rule it out very quickly.
34:46
Speaker 6: It was not even the right brand, not the right color.
34:49
Speaker 6: Nothing matched up with what they were actually looking for.
34:52
Speaker 2: Dave mac What I understand is after reviewing the bag
34:56
Speaker 2: and what was inside the bag, it was determined not
35:00
Speaker 2: to be a viable lead. We find out the bag
35:04
Speaker 2: had been outside in the elements for much longer than
35:10
Speaker 2: three weeks. It also contained identification of a minor inside.
35:18
Speaker 3: I don't know, hello, kitty stuff. I don't know what
35:21
Speaker 3: it could have been in.
35:22
Speaker 2: There, but you see the backpack that the front porch
35:27
Speaker 2: guy is wearing is seemingly new, and what they found
35:35
Speaker 2: had been out in the elements for quite some time.
35:38
Speaker 2: To Mike Gould joining US, former Nasau County lieutenant, founding
35:43
Speaker 2: member of the New York Police Department K nine unit
35:46
Speaker 2: who has led multiple homicide investigations. Again, Mike, thank you
35:50
Speaker 2: for being with us tonight. How do you look at
35:52
Speaker 2: a backpack and determined it's been out there longer than
35:56
Speaker 2: three weeks?
35:58
Speaker 4: Right, So, environment conditions will predict what a piece of
36:02
Speaker 4: clothing or an article of evidence should look like three
36:05
Speaker 4: weeks after. So if it looks like it's pristine, we
36:07
Speaker 4: can kind of guess, Right, if you see a piece
36:10
Speaker 4: of clothing or backpack that's been sitting around for a
36:12
Speaker 4: year or two, it's going to be different than one
36:15
Speaker 4: that has been out there for two or three weeks.
36:17
Speaker 4: Two or three weeks, it should be in pretty good condition.
36:20
Speaker 4: You know, again, all of what we're talking about is
36:22
Speaker 4: based on environmental conditions, heat rain. All of these things
36:27
Speaker 4: affect the durability of evidence.
36:31
Speaker 2: You have trained and led K nine units. You founded
36:36
Speaker 2: the NYPD K nine unit.
36:39
Speaker 3: For Pete's sake.
36:40
Speaker 2: I recall in the Lacy Peterson case, Mike, that one
36:45
Speaker 2: dog tracked Lacey sent from Modesto to the San Francisco
36:51
Speaker 2: Bay Marina. Tell me how the canines should have been
36:59
Speaker 2: used in Nancy Guthrie's case.
37:04
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, Nancy. So what we don't realize is properly trained,
37:08
Speaker 4: properly calibrated dogs. Police dogs are scientific instruments admissible in court.
37:15
Speaker 4: Polyographs are not. But dogs are admissible as scientific instruments
37:19
Speaker 4: if they are, as I said, properly calibrated and trained.
37:22
Speaker 9: Unfortunately, US humans don't understand how a dog can detect
37:27
Speaker 9: your remote control hidden under the couch pillows.
37:32
Speaker 4: We don't understand it because we use our eyes and ears.
37:35
Speaker 4: So if we have amplified sound, we know what amplified
37:38
Speaker 4: sounds like. We know if we look in a telescope,
37:40
Speaker 4: we can see stars that are undetectable by our normal vision.
37:44
Speaker 4: But there is not one There is not one scientific
37:47
Speaker 4: instrument available today, and I've been saying this for forty years, Nancy,
37:51
Speaker 4: that can duplicate the abilities, the older detection abilities of
37:56
Speaker 4: a properly trained dog. And that's of course. Finding evidence
38:00
Speaker 4: is what dogs do. Finding human remains is what cadaver
38:03
Speaker 4: dogs and human remain detection dogs, that's what they do.
38:06
Speaker 4: DNA experts identify, dogs find DNA experts identify.
38:13
Speaker 3: So what should they have done when they got to
38:16
Speaker 3: the Nancy Guthrie.
38:17
Speaker 4: Saying, and any investigation I've been involved with, dogs are
38:21
Speaker 4: the primary evidence recovery tool. Even as you see now
38:25
Speaker 4: people are walking through volunteers or looking with their eyes.
38:29
Speaker 4: You can't detect invisible things that are invisible. So dogs, obviously,
38:34
Speaker 4: my biased opinion, should have been all over the perimeter.
38:37
Speaker 4: Maybe not so much inside the house unless they were
38:39
Speaker 4: looking specifically for human remains that may have been hidden there.
38:43
Speaker 9: But they should be all around the perimeter to this day,
38:46
Speaker 9: and as the dust settles in this case, it's going
38:48
Speaker 9: to be my prediction that dogs are going to contribute
38:52
Speaker 9: to finding further evidence as time goes by, because that is,
38:55
Speaker 9: as I said, their specialty in odors.
38:59
Speaker 4: So to answer your question, dogs should be all over that.
39:02
Speaker 4: All dogs are specialists in detecting odorless substances, nar cottage dogs,
39:08
Speaker 4: explosive dogs, cadavi dogs. It never ends. We can detect
39:13
Speaker 4: cancer and human bodies. We can detect insects in your house,
39:16
Speaker 4: so it never ends. This question is what dog? What instrument?
39:20
Speaker 4: As I say, scientific instrument, that's to me what a
39:23
Speaker 4: dog is? Which scientific instrument are you deploying? So initially,
39:28
Speaker 4: as I said, dogs should be searching for hot evidence.
39:31
Speaker 9: It's not Nancy Guthrie's odor they're trailing in this case,
39:35
Speaker 9: it's just any hot evidence. Even now, dogs in the
39:39
Speaker 9: desert will detect anomalies in the desert that then require
39:44
Speaker 9: corroboration from law enforcement. I've worked nobody homicide cases, so
39:49
Speaker 9: you can't make the presumption that a dead body was
39:53
Speaker 9: in Nancy Grace's trunk without some type of corroborating evidence
39:57
Speaker 9: i e.
39:58
Speaker 4: DNA, hair tissue, some something else. So dogs, again, they're
40:02
Speaker 4: incredible scientific tools, but they have to be utilized and
40:06
Speaker 4: deployed properly and law enforcement has to understand it. Very frankly,
40:10
Speaker 4: law enforcement doesn't clearly understand the value of dogs just
40:14
Speaker 4: because it's like a magician doing a trick.
40:17
Speaker 9: So we can't fathom how could a dog smell a
40:22
Speaker 9: pot of soup cooking in your kitchen and detect the ingredients,
40:26
Speaker 9: break down.
40:27
Speaker 4: Each individual ingredients, carrots, onions. We can't fathom that. So
40:31
Speaker 4: therefore we don't understand the capabilities of dogs. And this
40:35
Speaker 4: has been my frustration for as I said, forty years
40:38
Speaker 4: I used to train dogs to find remote control or
40:42
Speaker 4: portable phones for a retailer here in New York that
40:45
Speaker 4: was getting ripped off by employees stealing phones portable phones.
40:49
Speaker 4: Once I trained the dog to find lithium batteries, then
40:52
Speaker 4: the dog once they isolate the odor, once science isolates
40:56
Speaker 4: the odor, which they do incredibly now more than ever,
41:00
Speaker 4: these odors, you train the dog to find this isolated odor, well,
41:05
Speaker 4: volatile organic compounds. Each everything has a signature, every odor,
41:10
Speaker 4: every pen in your possession, your microphone, you're clothing, everybody
41:15
Speaker 4: has a scent signature. And once a dog that is isolated,
41:19
Speaker 4: they can't be beat. So again, yeah, this is my thing,
41:24
Speaker 4: but again it's frustrating when I see twenty people law
41:27
Speaker 4: enforcement and volunteers trampling through a crime scene. They can't
41:31
Speaker 4: detect anything. You could be stepping on valuable evidence, a
41:35
Speaker 4: cigarette butt, almost anything can be valuable when it's corroborated.
41:41
Speaker 2: So, Mike, are you telling me that you don't get
41:45
Speaker 2: the dog out of the vehicle and give him For instance,
41:49
Speaker 2: Nancy Guthrie's shirt that she was wearing the night before
41:52
Speaker 2: and they smell it and they take off running.
41:54
Speaker 3: That's not real.
41:56
Speaker 4: No, it is absolutely real, And that's called a trailing dog.
42:00
Speaker 4: As going back to my point, they're specialists so trailing dogs,
42:03
Speaker 4: and they're hard to train. They're not even available that much.
42:06
Speaker 4: It's a very specific thing.
42:08
Speaker 10: But in the there's been evidence of dogs trailing odor
42:12
Speaker 10: skin cells, microscopic skill skin cells, vapor cells, so they can.
42:19
Speaker 10: But it's probably not likely that in this case a
42:23
Speaker 10: trailing dog would be effective in my estimation, why, I'm
42:28
Speaker 10: not sure we're making an assumption that she was taken
42:32
Speaker 10: in a car number one, they would have been valuable
42:35
Speaker 10: tracking outside almost immediately because very frankly, when burglars or criminals,
42:40
Speaker 10: they don't go far.
42:41
Speaker 4: They usually circle around. They're in the backyard.
42:44
Speaker 10: I've stepped on burglars in the middle of the night,
42:47
Speaker 10: literally stepped on them because it's in the dark with
42:50
Speaker 10: a flashlight.
42:51
Speaker 4: They're in the dark, they.
42:52
Speaker 10: Have dark clothing on, and my dog thought it biting
42:55
Speaker 10: at my shoes and I got pissed off at them
42:58
Speaker 10: and wanted to correct them. Guess what I was standing
43:01
Speaker 10: on the bad guy within one hundred yards of the
43:04
Speaker 10: crime scene.
43:05
Speaker 2: Well, we know Nancy Guthrie was not left at the
43:07
Speaker 2: crime scene. We know she's nowhere around the home, so
43:12
Speaker 2: she had to be transported away. Can dogs follow her
43:16
Speaker 2: scent even if she's in a vehicle providing law enforcement?
43:21
Speaker 3: Has it contaminated the scene so badly?
43:25
Speaker 4: Again, I don't want it's possible.
43:28
Speaker 9: But the more you get to these kind of renten
43:31
Speaker 9: ten scenarios, lastly finding Timmy in the well, the less
43:35
Speaker 9: reliable this evidence is.
43:37
Speaker 4: So I completely agree with you that she's not there.
43:40
Speaker 4: But if law enforcement, which they should be doing a
43:42
Speaker 4: concentric circle starting from the blood droplets on the porch,
43:46
Speaker 4: which I'm sure they did, but they should be circling outward, outward, outward, outward, outward,
43:52
Speaker 4: till the point that that whole area was inspected, in
43:56
Speaker 4: my opinion, with a dog. Because humans, it's invaluable they're
44:00
Speaker 4: doing the right thing. They're walking around looking what are
44:02
Speaker 4: they looking for. They're not looking for evidence because they
44:05
Speaker 4: don't know what evidence will look like. That's what happened
44:07
Speaker 4: with the glove, you know, the glove that we spent
44:11
Speaker 4: a few days speculating that it looked like the glove
44:14
Speaker 4: on the video. It was found two miles away. I
44:17
Speaker 4: never gave any credence to the fact that that was
44:20
Speaker 4: going to be. Of course, all of these things have
44:22
Speaker 4: to be pursued, Every lead has to be pursued without
44:26
Speaker 4: a doubt. But some are more credible than others, and that, frankly,
44:29
Speaker 4: to me, was never a credible piece of evidence, just
44:33
Speaker 4: based on it looked like a glove. If you go
44:35
Speaker 4: around my two miles from where I'm sitting right now,
44:38
Speaker 4: or two miles where you're sitting right now, you will
44:40
Speaker 4: find all. You go to a homeless encampment, you're going
44:43
Speaker 4: to find gloves, backpack, shoes, clothing. So again I need
44:48
Speaker 4: to stick with facts and not get drawn into rabbit hole.
44:52
Speaker 2: Since Savannah Guthrie's latest play for information regarding her mother
44:57
Speaker 2: was issued and her family, upping the reward, which is
45:01
Speaker 2: now at one million, two hundred and two thousand dollars.
45:07
Speaker 2: Tips are pouring in. If you know or think you
45:12
Speaker 2: know anything, you don't need a million dollars fine, plenty
45:16
Speaker 2: of people do. Please dial toll free eight hundred two
45:20
Speaker 2: two five five three two four repeat one eight hundred
45:25
Speaker 2: two two five five three two four, Or if you
45:28
Speaker 2: wish to remain anonymous, dial five to zero eight eight
45:32
Speaker 2: two seven four sixty three repeat five two zero eight
45:37
Speaker 2: eight two seven four sixty three. Even if you remain anonymous,
45:42
Speaker 2: you will be able to get the million dollar reward.
45:46
Speaker 2: Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend