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UnchainedTV: Transform Yourself with 2 Fantastic New Vegan Books · UNCHAINEDTV'S Truth Files with Jane Velez-Mitchell

• 0:01
  Welcome to the Unchained TV podcast with me, your host, Jane Velez Mitchell.
• 0:09
  Guess what, folks, we got some bad news for you.
• 0:12
  Veganism is under attack by advertiser-based mainstream media.
• 0:17
  Take a look at some of these headlines, very slanted, and these are not just
• 0:20
  like small publications, some of the biggest publications in the world.
• 0:24
  And that's why vegan books are a crucial tool to counteract this misinformation campaign.
• 0:33
  And now, breaking news, we've got two new extraordinary vegan books out,
• 0:40
  and we're going to talk to the authors about these books, Vegan Transformation and Life Veganized.
• 1:03
  So, let's start with the Vegan Transformation. Angela Crawford, you are a psychotherapist,
• 1:24
  a therapist, and you have talked about how veganism, contrary to how everybody tries
• 1:31
  to make it seem like it's some extraordinary sacrifice, it's actually a gift and something
• 1:40
  that makes us happier and healthier and more in tune with our better nature.
• 1:45
  Can you elaborate what the big points you make in your book are regarding that?
• 1:52
  Yeah, I'm happy to. I'm so thrilled to be here.
• 1:57
  I researched this book by interviewing vegans who have been vegan for varying lengths of time,
• 2:03
  and it was about the emotional, social, and spiritual changes in their life with being vegan.
• 2:09
  There's a lot of books that look at more of the health and the environmental and ethical aspects
• 2:13
  of our vegan lifestyle, but what happens when we align with our ethics in terms of our emotional
• 2:18
  well-being? And what I found through surveys and interviews with vegans about how they felt their
• 2:26
  life had changed emotionally and spiritually, there were so many positive benefits, even though
• 2:33
  there can be challenges because we are still a minority in the world as far as the numbers
• 2:41
  of people that are vegan compared to omnivores. So there are some social challenges people face,
• 2:46
  but there was also so many blessings that people felt as they align with this lifestyle.
• 2:53
  Emotional fulfillment, greater sense of purpose and peace, spiritual alignment,
• 3:03
  true connection with other people who share their values, and also health empowerment.
• 3:08
  You know, often we're taught we don't have much control over our health other than taking pills,
• 3:12
  but I interviewed many people who found that by changing their lifestyle and becoming fully
• 3:19
  plant-based and vegan, that they transformed their health, things that they were told
• 3:24
  couldn't heal. So there was an empowerment that came with that. When we align with our values,
• 3:30
  it's beneficial to us as well as to those that we're helping through our life change.
• 3:36
  Of course. I mean, you think about people who, for example, do something, and none of us is perfect,
• 3:42
  obviously, but let's say somebody who commits a terrible crime, you know, there's those old
• 3:46
  songs about the criminal returning to the scene of the crime and how they're often haunted by
• 3:53
  guilt and remorse and reliving what it is that they did. Well, I mean, if you think about the
• 4:00
  violence involved with eating animals, on some level, everybody knows that they're contributing
• 4:05
  to the killing of these animals, and that's got to have a psychological impact, even if it's
• 4:11
  completely unconscious, Angela. Yes, definitely. You're speaking to research that shows how we
• 4:19
  treat animals and how we treat other beings relates to how we treat humans and our own mental health
• 4:26
  and well-being. And the people I interviewed said that when they aligned with their values by eating
• 4:32
  a fully plant-based vegan diet and making other choices also that were compassionate and cruelty
• 4:38
  free, they felt a sense of freedom they hadn't anticipated. You know, sometimes we do fear that
• 4:43
  it will be restrictive or depriving, but the people I interviewed, for the most part, found that
• 4:50
  they felt so much freer and better and more authentic. And, you know, a really great quote
• 4:56
  is that even if sometimes we're challenged as we learn about what happens to animals, it brings up
• 5:01
  tough emotions. There's also freedom and peace that we can make different choices.
• 5:08
  I love it. And now we're going to get into our second author's book, which is Life Veganized. I
• 5:15
  love the title. I think it kind of reflects you as a very modern person who is on the
• 5:23
  cutting edge of social media. Stephanie, you have decided at some point you're going to devote your
• 5:31
  life and your career to promoting the plant-based lifestyle. How did you come up with this book,
• 5:36
  Life Veganized, and what is the key point, the elevator pitch? Yes. So this is something that
• 5:44
  I've wanted to do for a long time, but I did just turn 32 last month and I went vegan at 16. So I've
• 5:50
  now been vegan for half of my life. So I thought this was a great time to write this book. I am
• 5:55
  asked very often, you know, vegans are usually asked like how they went vegan and when. And
• 6:01
  going vegan at 16, it's kind of, it is a unique story. So I wanted, I wanted to put it down,
• 6:07
  put it out there. And I think that as far as veganism goes, my view of veganism,
• 6:12
  it's more of like a simplistic view where life veganized, that was, that was my old handle of
• 6:22
  all my social media channels before. And the way that I came up with that name was because I wanted
• 6:28
  to show people that no matter what kind of life you have, you can live it in a vegan way. So I
• 6:33
  was living in the Midwest when I went vegan. I was 16. My family was on welfare. We were on food stamps
• 6:40
  and I went vegan in the middle of all of that. And it actually wasn't difficult at all. I didn't
• 6:45
  know how to cook either. But I, that, that's all it really is. It's just a very simplistic view
• 6:51
  that you can be vegan no matter what your circumstances are. And then in this book that
• 6:55
  I wrote, I talk about how I went vegan, but then how my life has been the past 16 years
• 7:01
  as a vegan throughout my twenties. I've moved across the country a few times. I've worked
• 7:07
  different nine to fives. I've worked in food service. I have been homeless and lived in my car
• 7:12
  in my early twenties, a couple of different times, and I was vegan through all of it.
• 7:16
  And it's never been a challenge. Fascinating. And you know, what I find particularly fascinating is
• 7:25
  that you didn't find it a challenge and you also didn't have the disconnect. I'll give you an
• 7:32
  example. I had lunch with a lovely lady, really super, super kind and wonderful. And she was
• 7:39
  telling me about how much she loved animals. And I said, all animals. And she said, all animals.
• 7:46
  And she was eating ham. And I just went like this. What about that? Now, of course I was accused of
• 7:54
  being rude, silently accused of being rude with a lot of eyebrows. But the point was that the
• 8:01
  disconnect was so profound, a good person, a kind person, but unable to make that connection.
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  Why do you think, Stephanie? And this is something that perplexes me. It has nothing to do with
• 8:14
  intelligence. It has nothing to do with how successful you are. Some people make the connection
• 8:20
  and some don't, no matter what you say. What was it about you, Stephanie, that allowed you to make
• 8:27
  the connection? I love that you asked this, because this is what I talk about near the
• 8:32
  beginning of it, is that ever since I was like maybe like three years old, I always knew that
• 8:38
  one day I would not eat animals. And I spent, I'm from Columbus, Ohio, but I spent several years as
• 8:43
  a child in a small farm town growing up there. And our neighbors, people that we knew that I went to
• 8:48
  school with, they're all families of like hunters and farmers. And I think that growing up in that
• 8:54
  environment, you would think it raises hundreds and farmers. But I think that that was definitely
• 9:00
  something that actually drove me to the life that I have now. Because ever since I was very,
• 9:06
  very little, I thought, I'm going to be vegetarian one day. I don't want to eat animals. I love
• 9:10
  animals. I really care about them. And we had deer roaming in our backyard. We had all types of
• 9:14
  wildlife. And because I've eaten deer when I was a kid, but we also had them in our backyard.
• 9:20
  And I think that that, like it kind of had a reverse effect where like, you know, I was almost
• 9:26
  in 4-H as a kid, but I was like too shy to like do anything, you know. So I didn't do that. But like
• 9:31
  I almost did 4-H. And like, I think that that was actually what made me make the connection. Like
• 9:36
  I always felt like I was in close contact with wildlife and animals and even farms and farm
• 9:42
  animals. And then after I went vegetarian at 15, and then I accidentally read a book about veganism
• 9:48
  at 16, and then went vegan right away. Well, that raises the whole issue of how important it is
• 9:57
  to have vegan books. I would say documentaries and books are two of the leading ways that people go
• 10:05
  vegan. Yes, it's social media. And social media is very important. And we at Unchained TV embrace
• 10:10
  social media. And I know Stephanie, you're a whiz at it. But sometimes 30 seconds won't do it.
• 10:17
  Whereas an entire documentary, like an Earthlings, like a Dominion, like a Forks Over Knives,
• 10:23
  all these films that we have on Unchained TV, the streaming network you see behind me,
• 10:27
  we're the world's only plant-based animal rights streaming television network.
• 10:31
  Those long form have a tendency to convince people more thoroughly. They can't dismiss it.
• 10:39
  The same thing with books. So Angela, what is the impact you hope your book has?
• 10:48
  Because you did a lot of research, you spent a lot of time, you are a doctor, you are a
• 10:54
  psychologist. This was a huge investment. Why did you feel your book, The Vegan Transformation,
• 11:00
  was worth all of that effort? Well, like many people I had when I first was moving in the
• 11:07
  direction of veganism thought it would be too hard. I thought it would be depriving. And then
• 11:13
  as I learned what I learned about factory farming and animal agriculture, and I just knew I couldn't
• 11:20
  keep eating meat anymore. Something broke through that disconnect that you were describing. I think
• 11:26
  it was a mixture of things like you mentioned, books and documentaries. And so as I embraced a
• 11:32
  lifestyle, I found my life opened up. Similar to Stephanie, I had not been a cook. I hadn't really
• 11:38
  enjoyed food prep. And now I was making all these delicious plant-based meals that were really
• 11:43
  wonderful. And I found my voice. I am definitely an introvert. I don't have all that social media
• 11:50
  that Stephanie does, although I'm growing into that. But becoming vegan, it helped me find a
• 11:57
  greater sense of purpose and a determination to share this. And I wanted to bring my gifts,
• 12:03
  which is psychotherapy and psychology, to this movement. And because that piece about how we
• 12:11
  change internally was missing from a lot of what I was reading, I wanted to learn more about it
• 12:17
  through talking to vegans and seeing their experience and sharing that part of it that
• 12:22
  we change inside in so many ways that are truly transformative and not depriving but actually
• 12:29
  make our lives fuller. That is the key. And this book, The Vegan Transformation, you can get it on
• 12:38
  Amazon. You can also get it at AngelaCrawfordPhD.com. I urge you to click on that. It's a
• 12:45
  great book to give to people. And there's seven transformational aspects that you have outlined.
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  Living aligned with core values, extending compassion to all sentient beings,
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  sense of purpose in creating a kinder, healthier world, connection with others who share similar
• 13:06
  values, greater emotional fulfillment and well-being, taking charge of health through
• 13:10
  plant-based nutrition, deepening spirituality, interconnectedness with all life. I love how you
• 13:18
  break that down. Now, to me, what's so important is there are so many people right now who are
• 13:26
  suffering from depression. And I remember somebody called me once and they said, I'm really suffering
• 13:34
  from depression. I didn't know her that well. And I probably didn't express it the right way,
• 13:40
  but I said, why don't you try? Well, I definitely didn't say it the right way.
• 13:49
  But what I did indicate was maybe she should try a plant-based diet. And this was my thought.
• 13:59
  Your gut biome determines your serotonin levels. Your serotonin levels determine your mood.
• 14:05
  So this old saw about eating an apple a day, by the way, we recently profiled the green smoothie
• 14:12
  challenge, which the plant-based treaty has undertaken, and I've embraced it. And I'm
• 14:17
  having a kale smoothie every day, which is a super food. And it's unbelievable. But these
• 14:23
  old saws about an apple a day keeps the doctor away. It also keeps maybe the depression away.
• 14:31
  And it's not just sort of an urban myth or a myth. There's actual science behind it, Angela.
• 14:39
  Yeah, there is. There's a whole section in the book exactly on what you're saying,
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  a chapter called Authentic Fulfillment. And what I found through researching the literature is that
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  those of us that eat more fruits and vegetables and other whole plant foods, there is a link
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  between that and emotional well-being. And I will acknowledge that mental health is complex,
• 15:03
  that in my work in the past as a psychotherapist, it wasn't that solely changing nutrition would
• 15:10
  always fix everything, but it's a really important foundation. If we're not getting
• 15:15
  exactly what you described, the foods that support our microbiome and our nervous system
• 15:19
  and our whole well-being, it's going to make it harder for our mental health and for the other
• 15:26
  lifestyle changes that we might want to make to have as much impact. So 100% what you're saying,
• 15:32
  eating those kinds of foods that support our body and our gut and our brain, all of those help a lot.
• 15:39
  So somebody wanted to know, Stephanie, what was the book that you read at age 16
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  that had such an impact on your decision to go vegan?
• 15:51
  It was called Skinny Bitch. In the early 2000s, it was making the rounds around Hollywood and
• 15:58
  all of the celebrities and things like that were reading it. It was a huge thing. And it
• 16:04
  was advertised as a diet nutrition book. And I was very into nutrition, diet, fitness,
• 16:12
  as a preteen teenager. So I read Skinny Bitch, and it starts talking about how you can be
• 16:20
  healthy and you don't smoke cigarettes, don't drink alcohol in order to be skinny and healthy.
• 16:25
  And I'm 16, so I'm like, I don't do that anyway. That's great. And then there was a chapter in the
• 16:31
  book at the very beginning, it talks about how you shouldn't eat meat to be healthy and skinny
• 16:37
  and in shape. And I thought, wow, the people who wrote this, the women who wrote this are vegetarian.
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  And then they start talking about the dairy and egg industry. So long story short, it goes into
• 16:46
  that. And I couldn't look at dairy and eggs the same after reading that book.
• 16:51
  It's so fascinating that you talk about this, because that was, you know, there was the first
• 16:57
  way. Well, there's been many waves of veganism. I mean, it's as old as time. And there's a great
• 17:04
  film, Christ's Piracy, that discusses that in depth. But what I found fascinating is that the
• 17:13
  actual word vegan is not that old. It actually stemmed from the vegetarian society having a rift,
• 17:22
  and there were non-dairy vegetarians who wanted to have their own newsletter, and they were denied.
• 17:28
  So they created their own newsletter, and they took the first two letters of vegetarian and the
• 17:34
  last two letters of vegetarian, put them together, and that became vegan. And it wasn't really until
• 17:43
  just mid-20th century that it started even going into the dictionaries. And like,
• 17:52
  growing up, I didn't have the word vegan. We were primarily pescetarian in my household, but
• 17:59
  the word didn't even really enter the lexicon until like, well, very, very recently. So it's hard to
• 18:07
  see change in real time. We might say, why is it taking so long? But in reality, it's accelerating
• 18:15
  very quickly. However, there has been a backlash. When Beyond Meat became the most successful
• 18:23
  initial public offering in years in 2019, the meat industry said, oh my gosh, we are going to
• 18:32
  have to counteract. And they sure did. And it's kind of reached a crescendo. I just picked out
• 18:40
  three recent headlines that are very terrifying to me. Meat is back on plates and in politics
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  after years in which plant-based was the mantra. Meat once again dominates the national conversation
• 18:53
  about dinner. That's the New York Times. Yes, I urge everyone, subscribe to the New York Times
• 18:59
  because subscribers can comment. I commented basically calling out the article. It was
• 19:07
  published and I got something like 48 recommends. So it's very important to subscribe to the New
• 19:15
  York Times, the most important newspaper in the world, and have the ability to comment.
• 19:20
  Here's another one from the New York Post. New research is bad news for vegans, even if you eat
• 19:25
  plant-based protein. Again, what about all the research that shows that the blue zones, people
• 19:31
  living the longest lifespans, the healthiest lives are living a plant-based diet? And then here's
• 19:37
  another one from BBC Science of all places. Even protein-rich vegan diets may fall short on key
• 19:42
  nutrient studies suggest. Now, I think all of these are what I would call hit pieces. Please, I invite
• 19:50
  any author of those articles on at any time. I would love to dialogue with you. Prove me wrong
• 19:58
  because in my opinion, they were unbalanced articles. What can we do about it, Angela? And
• 20:04
  do you address this in your book at all? Yeah, this came up in the book. I had spoken with you
• 20:12
  actually early in my research process and you pointed out to me some articles that were claiming,
• 20:17
  for example, that vegans were depressed. And so I looked more closely at those. And what I found
• 20:23
  when I got to the root of what those articles were based on, most referenced a meta-analysis study
• 20:30
  that was actually funded by the beef industry. And T. Colin Campbell, who wrote the China study,
• 20:37
  speaks to this, that you really have to look at who is funding the research. And as you say,
• 20:43
  are they giving a balanced perspective on what research is out there? The plant-based doctors
• 20:52
  that I highlight in my chapter on health empowerment, they have shown with really
• 20:59
  awesome strict science studies that a plant-based diet has so many benefits for our health. And
• 21:06
  Dean Ornish showing that we can open up our blood vessels through a plant-based diet and reverse
• 21:11
  heart disease. I'd really like to see how these studies can really counter that strong research.
• 21:18
  Yeah, and you know, I do always give a chance for people who comment to make their comments.
• 21:26
  So we have a comment here that I would like to put up. And this is John Harriman Corcoran.
• 21:32
  Great respect and fondness, Jane, of course. However, I believe if God had wanted everyone
• 21:36
  to be vegans, he wouldn't have invented ham and cheese sandwiches. Now, let me just
• 21:42
  respond to that. I'll give you all the chance to respond to it.
• 21:45
  John, I just want to show you some images of pigs heading into slaughter. Here in Los Angeles,
• 21:53
  there was a Farmer John slaughterhouse owned by Smithfield, which is owned by the Chinese
• 22:00
  and is the largest meat pig killer in the world. And so we used to bear witness at these
• 22:12
  vigils, basically trying to offer comfort to pigs who were going into the slaughterhouse.
• 22:17
  And there's one looking up. They're killed generally at about six months of age,
• 22:21
  and they are terrified. And we would try to offer them water and a little comfort and say things
• 22:29
  like, we love you. Pigs, by the way, it shouldn't matter, but they're smarter than dogs. Some consider
• 22:37
  them the fifth largest, the fifth most intelligent species on the planet. And I got to tell you,
• 22:43
  I had people who said they would go to these vigils and didn't show up. It's difficult.
• 22:49
  Here's pigs kept in gestation crates the size of their bodies, never able to turn around.
• 22:55
  They go psychotic. You know, if you did any of this to a dog for a week, you'd be charged with
• 23:02
  animal cruelty. And here's an image of pigs in a Canadian facility covered in dirt. It's
• 23:13
  really almost unimaginable what these animals go through. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
• 23:22
  It is truly, truly, well, I'd say it makes me embarrassed to be a member of the human species.
• 23:28
  There it is, a Canadian pig facility that had a very high rating by the Canadian government,
• 23:36
  and they are covered in their own feces. Now, I just ask you, John, if you're still watching,
• 23:44
  do you still think it's funny? Do you still think it's a big joke? Look into the eyes of that being.
• 23:53
  Just look into the eyes of that being and maybe look in the mirror and just think about it.
• 24:00
  That's what I would have to say. What would anybody else like to say about this? Stephanie?
• 24:07
  Um, well, I mean, my first thought, I mean, I guess I'm on Unchained, so I'm probably allowed
• 24:12
  to say this, but like, if you said something similar, but compared it to, what is the comment?
• 24:18
  If God, whatever, okay. If you compared this to physical or sexual abuse against a human,
• 24:26
  well, they wouldn't make whatever so desirable, so appealing. That would have a very different
• 24:33
  response from people. Do you get what I'm saying? I'm trying not to, like, be too whatever.
• 24:38
  Right, right.
• 24:39
  If we're comparing this to, like, the abuse of humans, it'd be horrific to say something like
• 24:43
  that, but because it's an animal, because there is so much disconnect, that just goes to show how
• 24:49
  much disconnect there really is in general. And how about you, Angela? What would you say to
• 24:56
  the gentleman? Well, I resonate with what both you and Stephanie said, you know, 100%, and I guess I
• 25:02
  reflect on what I've learned from Dr. Melanie Joy, who wrote the book Why We Love Dogs, Eat Pigs,
• 25:08
  Wear Cows, how I was once deeply conditioned to believe, as so many of us are, as we all are,
• 25:15
  really, that eating animals is, quote, unquote, normal, natural, and necessary.
• 25:21
  And yet, you know, when something breaks through, when we see, you know, whether you could argue
• 25:27
  it ever was normal, natural, or necessary, it is not natural now, what you're showing us.
• 25:32
  And those of us that are vegan discover it isn't necessary. And as far as the normal part,
• 25:39
  you know, you can call something normal because it's happening a lot, but that doesn't make it
• 25:44
  okay. And that's something I've come to realize, and many of us come to realize, there have been
• 25:50
  past atrocities all through history that were normalized at the time, but we now know we're
• 25:57
  not okay. And I think that's so true when you look more closely at current animal agriculture.
• 26:05
  Yeah, and it gets back to the woman who was saying she loved all animals while eating a
• 26:09
  slice of ham. And, you know, a lot of Americans underestimate the amount of meat they eat,
• 26:15
  and the average American eats 66.18 pounds of pork alone per year. And tragically,
• 26:25
  not to be Debbie Downer, but the consumption of animals is on the rise, it is not going down.
• 26:35
  So this is why I bring this up. Now, let's also talk about the climate crisis, because
• 26:43
  you don't need me to tell you that the world's in the midst of a climate crisis.
• 26:48
  And we're seeing more and more devastating wildfires, floods, tornadoes, extreme weather.
• 26:57
  There's a lot of talk about fossil fuels, but there's not as much talk about the impact of
• 27:03
  animal agriculture. Just the other day, we had a well-known scientist on who has just submitted a
• 27:10
  paper making the case that animal agriculture is the leading cause of climate change.
• 27:14
  He is willing to debate anybody anytime. And I'm not a scientist, but it's a very big subject. So
• 27:22
  it depends on how you analyze it and how you frame it. So with all that being said, I would
• 27:31
  like to point out an article that was in the New York Times, not so long ago, that made the point
• 27:38
  that researchers who examined the diets of 55,500 people found that vegans are responsible
• 27:44
  for 75% less in greenhouse gases than meat eaters. So if you really think about that,
• 27:52
  that means that if we all reduced our meat consumption and became plant-based,
• 27:57
  we would all collectively reduce human greenhouse gas emissions by 75%. And right there,
• 28:04
  that is a solution to the climate crisis. Now, the reason I mentioned that, getting back to
• 28:09
  the mainstream media slanted coverage of this entire issue, that was in the New York Times.
• 28:15
  It was kind of buried, but it was there. And nobody picked it up. It wasn't picked up by CNN,
• 28:22
  by MSNBC, by Fox News. I looked. I said, well, surely they have to say something about that's
• 28:27
  the solution to the climate crisis. No. And that was an Oxford University study. That was not a study
• 28:34
  by just some random group of people. Stephanie, how do we counteract this
• 28:42
  onslaught of basically misinformation and a blackout on this solution?
• 28:49
  I think it's more of a long game. When you go to any type of media, news outlets, whether it's
• 28:57
  vegan, climate-related or not, you can find coverage supporting any argument, both sides,
• 29:06
  on any topic. Now, you mentioned to me the other day that, not that New York Times article,
• 29:10
  but the one slandering veganism. And I found it and read it and took some notes. But it's
• 29:16
  interesting that you pointed out that article that's pretty pro-vegan. And then the other day,
• 29:22
  they come out with this one that's completely against veganism. But I think that as far as what
• 29:27
  we can do, do our own research, understand that no matter what you believe or what you find to be
• 29:33
  true, there will be an article or some type of news out there that is completely trying to
• 29:40
  discredit everything. You can find anything on the internet to support any argument. But it's
• 29:45
  important to think for ourselves, question things, and then just continue to focus on ourselves and
• 29:53
  our corner of the world. We can control ourselves and we can control our own actions.
• 30:01
  So try not to get discouraged by those types of articles that are trying to be pro-meat,
• 30:08
  that kind of thing. And just know that peace starts on your plate.
• 30:14
  And getting back to the gentleman who said God wouldn't have created ham and cheese sandwiches,
• 30:19
  God wouldn't have created vegan ham and vegan cheese sandwiches. Karen LaCava,
• 30:25
  who is a well-known plant-based chef and caterer, has commented, that's why we can now have vegan
• 30:32
  ham and cheese sandwiches that are even tastier and humane. So there you go. Somebody upstairs
• 30:39
  is coming up with a lot of good vegan products. And the other thing I want to just point out while
• 30:45
  we're talking is that these vigils, even though Farmer John, the Smithfield-owned slaughterhouse,
• 30:51
  closed down because of a lot of those protests, there were huge protests, celebrities were coming.
• 30:57
  Joaquin Phoenix was there after winning one of the major acting awards and it was getting huge
• 31:03
  publicity. So I think they decided it's actually not working for us. Let's close this down and put
• 31:08
  this slaughterhouse somewhere where nobody can find us in the middle of nowhere. But it was a
• 31:14
  huge success, but the vigils are still happening around the world by the Save Movement. And you
• 31:19
  have someone here pointing out chicken vigil happening the first Friday of the month in Chinatown
• 31:24
  by Animal Alliance Network in Los Angeles. So go to the Save Movement if you want to look at
• 31:33
  what's really happening and be part of the solution. I will say one other thing. There was a couple
• 31:39
  and the wife wanted to go to the vigil and she then called me up right before we were
• 31:46
  supposed to head off and said, my husband can't go. He thinks he'll be sick. Nevertheless,
• 31:52
  they did not then say, it's so awful, I'm going to stop eating animals. That's another part of the
• 31:59
  disconnect. Even when there's an acknowledgement of what's really going on is morally reprehensible,
• 32:07
  the habit continues. I liken it to alcoholism. I'm 30 years sober and I have to tell you it's
• 32:15
  a miracle because before I got sober 30 years ago, I couldn't go a day without a drink. I'd say,
• 32:21
  I'm not going to have a drink tonight. And then the nighttime would roll around and I would be
• 32:25
  drinking again. And I hit bottom at a party in West Hollywood. And I had a friend who was
• 32:32
  helping me, willing to help. I had an action point to get help and I never had a drink again.
• 32:38
  I think the key is that I had an action point. So what is the action point that we can give people
• 32:47
  so that when they have that moment of, oh my God, this is horrible. I shouldn't be participating.
• 32:53
  What they say about alcoholism and I think it applies to meat eating is it's a disease of
• 32:58
  amnesia. You forget, we have a tendency to romanticize, let's say the Chardonnay or the
• 33:07
  Martini and not remember, oh, the blackout or the stumbling home or the embarrassing things that
• 33:13
  were said. It's a disease of amnesia. How do we counteract that Angela? And you're a therapist.
• 33:21
  So you're the person to talk to. Yeah. Well, I agree with you that for most of us, there's some
• 33:28
  point that awakens us to wanting to make a change. And so if we're trying to encourage
• 33:34
  others, one thing I think is helpful is to meet people where they are and share in ways that
• 33:40
  resonate with them. If it's someone having a health issue, it's okay to come from the health
• 33:46
  angle to help them see that eating plant-based could help them heal some horrible disease they
• 33:52
  have and have a better life. If they are open to compassion for animals, then certainly sharing
• 33:59
  your own journey and teaming up with them. If we're coming from the angle of, I once thought
• 34:05
  those same things. I once believed that I had to eat meat or that I wouldn't be okay. And I once
• 34:11
  believed animals were treated humanely. And then this is what I learned. Sharing your own story can
• 34:16
  sometimes make people be more open and feel more curious to understand your journey and to start to
• 34:24
  think, well, maybe I could do that too. And I think one other piece of it is when people do make a
• 34:30
  change and they start on the vegan path, they need support. The research suggests that the biggest
• 34:36
  reason that people start to be vegan, but then don't sustain it. One is that they might only be
• 34:44
  doing it strictly for health reasons and not have enough grounded other reasons like the compassion
• 34:51
  for animals and the environment. But another reason is the social situations. Because we are social
• 34:58
  creatures, if we're in settings where we're the only vegan and we don't have any support, that
• 35:05
  can make it a lot harder. And so if we're helping people on the vegan journey, we need to also
• 35:11
  connect them with supports that help them through the challenges and help them to see that this is
• 35:18
  doable and to learn the skills that will make this easier and easier. I hope in time there's a tipping
• 35:24
  point where there's so much vegan food and vegan support that it becomes more and more an inviting
• 35:30
  path for more people. Well, we at Unchained TV, the world's only vegan streaming network, provide
• 35:37
  that support with literally hundreds of cooking shows that are free to watch. It looks like salmon,
• 35:46
  it tastes like salmon, but let me tell you, it's plant-based y'all.
• 35:53
  Plant-based in the birds, plant-based in the birds.
• 35:58
  I bought a tofu press because I eat a lot of tofu. This one makes it so easy. You just slide it in.
• 36:07
  And then you just turn it. And see already how the marinade is making the tofu turn
• 36:14
  the same color as a salmon filet. But turn it over on its side.
• 36:18
  You want to make sure it doesn't stick. Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the greatest chef of all? It is I.
• 36:36
  Seitan is a high protein vegan alternative to chicken and it's so delicious. It's nutritious
• 36:43
  and it's made from vital wheat gluten. So we're just going to massage the tail. I like to think
• 36:48
  about food in terms of micronutrients, right? Do you need to make sure that you're putting food in
• 36:52
  your body that is repairing not only the muscular system, but also your gut and your brain, right?
• 36:58
  And just every aspect of you. So we do everything we can at Unchained TV to try to give people that
• 37:08
  support. And a lot of people have said they've gone vegan watching Unchained TV videos. And we
• 37:14
  provide the recipes online as well, written, so that people can follow the recipes and reenact.
• 37:21
  We talk about the nutritional content. There you just heard Dotsie Bausch, who is a vegan Olympian,
• 37:27
  talking about how she eats kale all the time. You know, these videos have a profound impact on me
• 37:33
  too. I was an ethical vegan who went vegan for the animals and I didn't really think twice about,
• 37:39
  oh, the nutrition. And thanks to uploading all these videos, I've become much more interested
• 37:46
  in having nutritionally complete meals and eating a lot of super healthy things. Not to say that
• 37:52
  I'll pass up that vegan croissant when it comes my way. But the point is that I think I'm trying
• 37:58
  to do everything I can. Stephanie is trying to do everything she can. You are trying, Angela,
• 38:04
  to do everything you can, but we're up against a behemoth. It's a David and Goliath battle.
• 38:11
  As Dr. Silas Rao, who was a brilliant systems analyst and a vegan advocate, said to me,
• 38:19
  Jen, we're all being factory farmed. They need people to get sick so they can sell them the drugs.
• 38:28
  It's a giant PR machine that's conditioning people to not act in their best
• 38:35
  interests. Just like people used to be encouraged to smoke. When I was a teenager, I smoked because
• 38:41
  I wanted to be cool. Then all of a sudden, society decided smoking isn't cool. And guess what? I
• 38:47
  stopped smoking so I can be manipulated. How do we do the same thing that happened to smoking
• 38:54
  for meat eating? And how do we counteract this Goliath? Stephanie, not a difficult question,
• 39:07
  I might add, right? How do we save the world of veganism? I think that, of course, the facts are
• 39:14
  important. I think, you know, I myself, you know, my journey, I feel like my purpose, what I'm trying
• 39:22
  to do in the long run is just continue promoting veganism, continue supporting the vegan movement,
• 39:29
  supporting vegan businesses, amplifying the voices of vegans in the community. And that,
• 39:38
  I mean, narrative. But I think that that's, that's all we can do. When, you know, that article,
• 39:44
  that New York Times article, that's like, you know, demonizing veganism. I was talking about,
• 39:49
  I was comparing veganism to like a trend. And veganism would be a trend, if it wasn't so
• 39:54
  sustainable, environmentally, and as far as health benefits. And that's something that people that we
• 40:00
  are becoming more aware of as a society is how healthy veganism is. Things can look bleak and
• 40:06
  dark, as far as meat consumption rising. However, I mean, you're hearing of all types of people
• 40:14
  living all types of vegan lifestyles. Pregnant women are still vegan throughout their pregnancies,
• 40:18
  we're raising vegan babies from birth. That's something that you wouldn't have heard of a long
• 40:23
  time ago. So I do think that veganism is growing, and the education is getting better around vegan
• 40:31
  issues. And that's all we can do. And I do think that all in all, we're doing a pretty good job
• 40:36
  trying to fight against the system and a society that tries to push meat so much.
• 40:42
  Again, you're listening to Stephanie Stevens, the author of Life Veganized. I want to tell
• 40:48
  everybody where you can get these books. So I want to show the covers and I do have a hard copy of
• 40:56
  the other book. We're going to get into that in one second. But these are really fabulous books to
• 41:03
  give people as gifts. So I'm going to put up, you can get The Vegan Transformation on
• 41:12
  Amazon, but you can also get it at AngelaCrawfordPhD.com. So think about it,
• 41:20
  The Vegan Transformation. It's a great book to give to people if you're already vegan. And if
• 41:26
  you're not vegan, if you're veganish or vegan curious, or just want to improve your health or
• 41:31
  for whatever reason, want to be less depressed, you can give it to yourself. And as far as
• 41:36
  Stephanie Stevens, this is an ebook. So it's not in print, but it's an ebook. And you can go to
• 41:42
  StephanieVStevens.com and there's a 20% promo code. If you put in Unchained TV, one word,
• 41:49
  you get 20% off that book. So these are, I think, really important tools that we can use
• 41:57
  to make change. And one of the things that I wanted to bring up, when I have people come over,
• 42:04
  I get a lot of books sent to me. And then once I look through them and read them,
• 42:09
  I don't want them just sitting on my mantle, not changing lives. I want to
• 42:17
  give them away to people so that other people can wake up. Here's something I've found,
• 42:24
  and it may be totally just coincidence, but I have books on my mantle. And if somebody comes
• 42:31
  and let's say a plumber, an electrician, working on the internet, whatever. And if they do a good
• 42:37
  job and they're nice, I go, look, I want to give you a little gift for you and your partner or
• 42:42
  whoever. And I find that the most unlikely people are the most passionate about being happy about
• 42:49
  getting this information. I had a plumber here who was like, oh my God, I can't wait to read this
• 42:56
  book. And yeah, my wife wants to do more vegan cooking and really thank you. I was like, oh,
• 43:05
  wow, that's great. Then there's other people who are like, not that I hang out with Rhodes scholars,
• 43:11
  but we know these elitists, people who are highly intelligent, highly successful,
• 43:17
  call themselves environmentalists, basically do a lot of extraordinary work and yet they can't get
• 43:27
  it. Even though they're so smart, they can understand things that go over my head,
• 43:33
  like the nuances of the Mueller report, for example. How do you account for that discrepancy?
• 43:39
  Because that is one thing that really torments me. People who are so smart, but can't get the
• 43:45
  simple concept that unnecessarily killing these animals and whether you like it or not,
• 43:54
  you're ordering the hit. Every time you buy a piece of meat or dairy, you are ordering the hit.
• 44:01
  They can't get that there's something deeply wrong with that. Angela.
• 44:07
  Yeah. There's deep, both social and I think psychological factors that play into that.
• 44:14
  The social is that we are indoctrinated our whole lives to eat meat and dairy. As you mentioned,
• 44:22
  the lobbying and the advertising and all the messaging we get supports this idea of eating
• 44:29
  meat. I think it's so prominent in our culture. It takes something special to break through that.
• 44:37
  You add in also our personal addictions to certain foods, our personal memories with foods. We were
• 44:46
  raised with certain foods and we attach emotional meaning to them. I try to understand why it's hard
• 44:53
  sometimes for people from those standpoints. Sometimes when something breaks through,
• 45:00
  just some piece of information clicks with us where we become curious to learn more and go
• 45:04
  beneath all that we've been conditioned and indoctrinated and just raised to believe and
• 45:14
  think. We break through that to some new idea that once we understand it, it really makes total sense
• 45:22
  that of course animals suffer. I'm a compassionate person. I don't want to cause harm and I have
• 45:27
  other choices, but it really takes a breakthrough of some sort. I do believe that when there's more
• 45:33
  vegans over time, it will take less to break through. Right now, I think that social factor is
• 45:40
  a big deterrent that can get in the way. It's really fascinating. I do want to ask a
• 45:51
  follow-up question. Is there a certain personality type? In other words, when people want to sell
• 46:00
  products, and Malcolm Gladwell has written about this, how trends accelerate and grow.
• 46:08
  They do study groups. They do focus groups. They try to find out what makes people tick,
• 46:15
  what's going to make different people choose to buy this product, for example.
• 46:19
  I don't know that we've done those kinds of focus groups as a movement, but do you have any
• 46:25
  inkling? Is there a certain type of individual, let's say, people who are curious to learn? I
• 46:32
  would think people who are curious to learn would be more likely to want to transition to plant-based
• 46:40
  than people who are, let's say, know-it-alls. I know everything. Any thoughts on that, Angela?
• 46:48
  Yeah, I agree with you. I don't know of any studies that specifically differentiate
• 46:53
  personalities, but I would agree with you. I think some traits that probably would be common in people
• 46:59
  that are open to the message sooner rather than later would be people that are, as you say,
• 47:05
  curious to learn. I do think people that are higher in empathy might also be more prone to
• 47:13
  get the message about animals more quickly than others. Also, just people that are willing to step
• 47:21
  out and be different. If we're really, really wired, and some of us have a harder time being
• 47:29
  different, I think for that person where I don't want to be different than my family or my friends
• 47:37
  and how I eat, it's more of a breakthrough in that case that we have to make of, okay, it's okay to
• 47:43
  be different because I'm doing what's right for me. I think people that are more independent in
• 47:50
  that way, it might be an easier step for them in the beginning.
• 47:55
  Well, I mean, Stephanie, any social justice movement, if you think of the suffragettes
• 48:01
  who were trying to get women the right to vote, which we only got universal suffrage in 1920,
• 48:08
  so it's not that long ago, and some people are trying to take us back.
• 48:14
  But if you think about that, the women who were standing up were daring to be different.
• 48:21
  They were not just wanting the social status of the moment, which frowned on women working
• 48:29
  and frowned on women having opinions and frowned on women who wanted to live outside the home and
• 48:35
  have a career. They dared to be different. I mean, maybe there's a campaign in there
• 48:39
  because now those women are heroes, but at the time, they were considered a big pain in the
• 48:45
  you know what. Yes. I love that this topic came up. This is actually, I speak on this
• 48:54
  in the last chapter of my ebook. It's just like 32 pages, the whole thing. So it's like
• 48:58
  chapter four, unexpected lessons veganism has taught me. So we all know that the health benefits,
• 49:06
  the ethical benefits, and the, oh my god, health, ethical, environmental, things like that,
• 49:13
  like the obvious benefits of veganism. However, the unexpected lessons, one of the very first
• 49:18
  points I make is that veganism taught me how to say no, and I write a couple paragraphs on that.
• 49:23
  Another one, veganism taught me how to be different, how to be independent. I quit eating
• 49:28
  meat when I was 15 and went vegan at 16. So when I started working in nightclubs at 18, 19, 20,
• 49:35
  I was saying no to drugs and alcohol. Peer pressure has nothing on me because I've been
• 49:41
  saying no to meat and dairy-based dinners with my family since I was 15. So I think Angela had a
• 49:50
  really, really good point that people that are more likely to go vegan, like you have to be okay
• 49:55
  with being different. And then on the other hand, I mean, I feel like there are a lot of people who,
• 50:02
  you know, if you're an introvert or you're shy or you're worried about what other people will think,
• 50:06
  it can make it more difficult for you to be able to go vegan. Or if you do, you're just more shy
• 50:13
  and reserved about it and you keep it more private, which I think is okay too. You know, if you're an
• 50:18
  introvert, a quiet person, a private person, you can still be vegan. You don't need to be loud
• 50:23
  in order to be a good vegan. But I think that that's really important is just
• 50:28
  if you can be okay with being different, that's really powerful.
• 50:35
  I love that you said that. And when I was reading your book and I didn't read the entire thing,
• 50:41
  but I was going through it and that really struck me and I learned something that I didn't know,
• 50:47
  which is that veganism can teach you how to say no. And I'm a big people pleaser. It's very hard
• 50:57
  for me to say no, except sometimes I'm like, if I don't say no, I'm going to be collapsed on the
• 51:03
  floor in the fetal position because I'm one person and I can't do everything. You know, with Unchained
• 51:11
  TV, people think that we are the vegan CNN Netflix, but we don't have hundreds of people.
• 51:19
  And so I've had to learn to say no. And it always hurts me when I do, because I want to say yes to
• 51:25
  everything. But I didn't realize what you just said, that going vegan gives you the strength
• 51:32
  to learn to say no in other areas of your life. Boom. That is a very wonderful observation.
• 51:42
  Jeez. You know, this is a pretty fascinating conversation, Angela. I think it could be the
• 51:47
  most important issue of our time since let's face it, getting the culture to go plant-based
• 51:56
  is possibly what's going to be needed if we are to save our planet from a climate apocalypse.
• 52:04
  Yeah. Yeah. What you're saying is so true. And so I, you know, I resonate with what Stephanie
• 52:11
  shared because I also found the strength to overcome those people pleasing tendencies that
• 52:17
  were within me that you also shared. And so I do feel veganism can be a path to our inner growth
• 52:26
  that can be helpful for us as much as it is for the world. And I think that's part of what I wanted
• 52:33
  to convey through my book is that it's so interconnected when we choose our own well-being
• 52:40
  through plant-based nutrition, through a vegan lifestyle, through aligning with our values.
• 52:45
  It also ripples into helping all these other things we care about. And then it comes back to
• 52:51
  us because when I'm caring about all sentient beings and I'm caring for the planet, it makes
• 52:56
  my life better too. So it's discovering it's worth breaking through whatever might be a little
• 53:02
  challenging to learn how to navigate all those, you know, to speak up, to say no, to lead in the
• 53:10
  ways you can, to learn the practical cooking skills or food prep skills. All of that is worth
• 53:17
  because what we gain and what we share beyond ourselves.
• 53:23
  We are just about out of time. This has been a fascinating conversation. I don't know about you,
• 53:28
  but I could talk about this for hours. I urge all of you get these books. It's a great holiday gift,
• 53:35
  a birthday gift for someone or read it for yourself. Absolutely brilliant books that we
• 53:45
  need to support. And I'm so really honored that I was able to have a discussion with these two
• 53:52
  amazing authors, Vegan Transformation and Life Veganized. So I think we'll do final thoughts.
• 54:01
  What is your final thought, Stephanie, as we wrap up this whole discussion?
• 54:09
  Well, I think I, as far as my part, I'm just trying to do my part to promote the vegan movement,
• 54:16
  get us closer to a vegan world, which I do think we can achieve one day. I think that
• 54:21
  educating people is the key to moving towards that, to having a better future.
• 54:27
  I have a lot of faith in humanity. I think that a lot of people would be vegan if they knew the
• 54:32
  truth about the ethical aspects, environmental, the health benefits, that kind of thing. So I'm
• 54:37
  just trying to do my part to spread the word and give people a good why. Excellent. Angela,
• 54:44
  your final thought? Yeah, I am inspired by the vegans I met through my research
• 54:51
  and both of you and other vegans that I know, because in living our values and really
• 54:59
  discovering that we can make a difference through our food and other choices and through this
• 55:04
  lifestyle, it has such an impact on so many things that matter to all of us. And so I just
• 55:11
  would focus on that we can be role models for what matters. And we can also focus on the positives
• 55:20
  that we gain through this, because yes, there are a lot of negative things we're trying to overcome,
• 55:24
  but there's also so many positives that people can look to as they move in this direction
• 55:30
  of being vegan. I want to thank you both for taking the time. I know you're very busy
• 55:36
  women doing so much. I also would urge everybody who watched and thank you for watching,
• 55:43
  share it out if you're watching on social media, and you can also share it out if you're watching
• 55:47
  Unchained TV on your phone, you can literally text this or any other episode to your friends. So
• 55:55
  first you got to download Unchained TV, we're the world's only vegan streaming television network,
• 56:00
  again, available on your phone available at unchainedtv.com. And it's on your TV. If you've
• 56:06
  got an Amazon Fire Stick, a Roku device, or an Apple TV device. It's also on all Samsung and LG
• 56:11
  TVs as well. So it's a vegan Netflix. Okay, that's the craziest thing I've ever heard. I love Unchained
• 56:17
  TV. Unchained TV, your life will change. It's just that easy. Unchained TV has all sorts of
• 56:24
  content for everybody. Unchained TV changed my life. Unchained TV is crushing it. I love
• 56:31
  Unchained TV. Unchained TV is my go to. Unchained TV. Who knew? Unchained baby.